Abortion is murder....
Posted By: :( on 2008-08-22
In Reply to: I wish the government would stay out of my uterus - XanaX
plan and simple. People scream and complain about the war and how we are killing innocent people.....yet they never seem to focus on the innocent children who are murdered by their mothers every day in our own country. Those are the real baby killers. That is a human life that you are getting rid of....disposing off like it is trash.
It amazes me how a pregnant woman can be killed and it is considered a double homicide and yet other pregnant woman can go kill the baby themselves at a clinic and that is okay.....no big deal. Talk about a contradiction. I living thing is a living thing whether it is still in the womb or not. You kill it.....you are a murderer!!!
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We murder 4000 innocent babies by abortion each
and every day, 50 million total so far in this country and counting, and now we will pay for abortions worldwide. Social Security is bankrupt but would not be if those 50 million innocent children had had a choice for life. No one can deny that fact.
Add it up: Abortion kills 4000 innocent babies each day. Queers do not populate.
I would definitely say we are practicing population control, and Obama gonna see we practice worldwide.
My belief? "late-term abortion" or partial-birth abortion" = infanticide, it is sickening
So in these cases I do think, as in most things, there is no ABSOLUTE, but a judicious guideline for this should be investigated and established by the medical community, as far as survival/outcome, but then we must be willing to prosecute mothers and doctors who go outside the guidelines...with established jail terms....and more money to house these "criminals" for years. Why not let God by the ultimate judge, He has the wisdom and the power, and eternity without God is worse than anything we as humans can mandate, don't you think?
meant is against abortion...didn't mean supports abortion (NM)
Another murder
Yet another illegal shot and killed a mother of 3 in front of her kids according to our area news headlines this morning. Seems he had been arrested numerous times in California, deported once and now ends up in Arkansas. I think all the bleeding heart liberals should take over paying for their health care, kids, food stamps, and their public defenders. It just makes me sick.
did I say murder?
1 a: a moral discourse, statement, or lesson b: a literary or other imaginative work teaching a moral lesson2 a: a doctrine or system of moral conduct bplural : particular moral principles or rules of conduct3: conformity to ideals of right human conduct4: moral conduct : virtue
That's taking it a bit out there, isn't it? You took a simple statement aimed at SEXUAL morality - which obviously was too much for you to comprehend - and defended your stance with broad-based BS. It's my fault teenagers are having sex? Hahahahahahaha...........yep, Bill's right. Why don't you adopt those millions of babies if you are so worried about them - obviously the people having abortions do not want them. It's okay to go to Iraq and kill millions of innocent civilians but abortion is murder? What an oxyMORON. Might as well advocate torture while you are at it.
Go Nascar! If you had the money Obama did, you wouldn't spend it on your kids? Is it any of your business? BTW, that was not a shot at Palin's daughter - it was a point in fact. I feel sorry for that poor girl being paraded around in front of millions of people. Look at her eyes. She's terrified. How awful. They knew perfectly well what they were doing when they dug Palin out of the hat and they knew perfectly well her daughter was pregnant. M-A-N-I-P-U-L-A-T-I-O-N.
Beat that drum.......someone might listen
It's not right for us to murder
but God takes lives all the time and he does it in various ways. He can certainly use another one of his creation to take a life. He's going to take many lives one day. Woman have the right to chose sex, birth control. They have the right to avoid pregnancy. They do not have a right to kill their unborn. It's kind of hypocritical to say you're against murder but, on the other hand, you're happy he can no longer kill any more babies. Maybe, with luck, in a few years he would have died from disease but that wouldn't have helped all the unborn during the interim. He's the exact opposite of Kevorkian. These unborn babies don't get a say in their death sentence. Kevorkian only kills adults who wish to die. Big difference.
Murder charges for 3 U.S. soldiers..sm
I have mixed feelings about this y'all. There is no doubt in my mind that mental issues are involved given the situation. However, they could have just been following orders. Or, worse just murdered the Iraqis on their own volition and threatened a fellow soldier.
Definitely worth the investigation, which sends the message that we (the US) does not tolerate this type behavior from our soldiers.
---------------------------------
Murder charges for 3 U.S. soldiers
They are accused of killing 3 Iraqis
Julian E. Barnes, Los Angeles Times
Tuesday, June 20, 2006
(06-20) 04:00 PDT Washington -- Three U.S. soldiers have been charged with the premeditated murder of three Iraqi detainees as well as with threatening the life of a fellow soldier who they feared would challenge their accounts of the deaths, military officials said Monday.
The three Americans were identified as staff Sgt. Raymond L. Girouard, Spc. William B. Hunsaker and Pfc. Corey R. Clagett, all members of the 3rd Brigade of the 101st Airborne Division. They were charged with shooting the detainees May 9 during a military operation near Thar Thar Canal in Salahuddin province north of Baghdad.
A murder conviction in the military carries the possibility of the death penalty. The accused soldiers are being held in Kuwait, a Pentagon official said. No personal information was available Monday about the soldiers.
The latest charges come as the military is conducting a separate investigation of the killing of 24 civilians in Haditha in November. Military investigators are examining possible murder charges against a group of Marines for those deaths. In addition, seven other marines and a Navy corpsman are being held in the brig at Camp Pendleton (San Diego County) in connection with the death of an Iraqi man in another town, Hamandiya. Since the start of the Iraq war, the military has brought criminal charges against at least 20 other service members in deaths of Iraqis.
Military officials first mentioned the Salahuddin investigation in a brief news release June 16. But details of how the three soldiers shot the men, near the Muthana Chemical Complex, have remained sketchy. The military has not said why the three Iraqis were being detained.
In addition to murder, the soldiers were charged with conspiracy and with threatening another soldier. Military officials said the accused initially reported they shot the detainees while they were trying to flee.
But that account was contradicted by a junior soldier who saw the shooting. Defense Department charge sheets released Monday identify the object of the threats as Bradley Mason, an Army private first class. The legal papers do not specify whether Mason is the soldier who witnessed the killings.
The accused soldiers are charged with threatening to kill Mason on May 29, as the group was traveling from its own operating base to Camp Speicher, near Tikrit, where the Criminal Investigation Division has an office.
You better not say anything, or I swear I will kill you, Girouard allegedly told Mason, according to charge sheets.
Girouard is accused of threatening to kill Mason six different times in the weeks after the detainees died. Hunsaker is accused of threatening Mason four times, and Clagett twice.
They face a hearing to determine if there is enough evidence for a court-martial. The first proceeding, known as an Article 32 hearing, is likely several weeks away, a military officer said.
The military has not executed anyone since April 1961, but nine people are on death row, including a sergeant in the 101st Airborne who killed two officers and wounded 14 soldiers in Kuwait in March 2003.
Laws protecting from murder
Yes, this country does have laws that protect citizens from being murdered.
A "citizen" is defined someone who "is born or naturalized in the United States."
Fetuses, embryos, etc. aren't born or naturalized. The issue of when life begins is akin to the "chicken/egg" question and will never be answered to the satisfaction of everyone. It relies mostly on religious views, and one's religious views shouldn't be forced on someone else who may not believe the same.
Again, I believe in minding my own business and NOT judging someone who may have or has had an abortion because it's none of my business.
If you don't believe in abortion, then I guess the simplest answer is: Don't have one.
My conscience tells me that it is murder.....sm
and that is even apart from what my religious beliefs tell me. I believe in life at the moment of conception as I stated in my post above. I won't go into all that again.
As far as amounts and agencies and how monies from my taxes and every one else's taxes are distributed to help provide medical care for those who receive free (to them) medical care, of course I can't provide that. I am not privy to where each of my tax dollars go and how much of it is spent on various government agencies or governmental salaries, etc., and neither do you. Funny, though, you're not asking Obama to produce his birth certificate or from whom he received campaign contributions, huh.
You're right--that's why noone ever goes to prison for murder. nm
nm
No, most of those murder enough babies legally as well.....
@@
Since when do fishers of men advocate plotting murder?
Are you serious, or have you truly lost the ability to disagree with someone - no matter how corrupt - if he SHARES your political agenda?
The fact he described Zarqawi's death is *murder*
is a big clue that he supported what Zarqawi.
I would rather money go to illegal aliens than murder by war.
Apparently, you prefer murder.
Abortion is for men. nm
This isn't abortion!
Read it again: the child is already out of the womb and breathing! the child is BORN. Not a fetus.
Your telling me that a child that is born from a botched abortion should be left to die?
That is what this bill is about. If a child is born after an abortion attempt, that it should be treated as a US citizen with all rights of a citizen given, including the right to lifesaving medical care. You don't think that's fair?
Abortion
Haven't you guys who are going on about this given any thought that every time politicians start speaking of abortion, gay marriage, etc., it is a smoke screen. They know how to push our buttons, but then they are always hiding something else. The know if they keep our minds on these types of issues, we won't be paying attention to other under-handed things that are going on.
This is not about abortion. It is about a man who...
voted AGAINST giving medical care infants who survive abortion, who are living and breathing outside the mother and unattached even by the umbilical cord. That is horrific, and frankly I don't feel real good about someone who wants to fight for that TO happen, instead of AGAINST it happening. If he can't muster up enough sympathy for poor children dying alone in a dirty clothes closet, how could I possibly believe he cares about the "middle class?"
Talk about a STRETCH.
abortion
I think that it is sad that people do not believe abortion is murder. I am pregnant by surprise and had an ultrasound at 12 weeks (when many abortions are performed) and was able to see my baby move around and his hands and feet. If that is not a baby, heaven help us all. Having said that, I am not sure that abortion should be illegal. In my heart, I know that it is wrong, but in my head, I also know that it will continue to happen in an unsafe manner if it were to become illegal. However, perhaps not so prevalently, so this is a toughie for me, but I cannot believe that God condones it.
ABORTION
who KNOWS there are other alternatives out there? Come on people!! We all type this stuff...There are sooooo many different kinds of birth control out there. Why wait and kill a baby? Bottom line, that's what abortion is. I just cannot believe the mentality of some of you people. I may not have all the fancy words some of you use but I think this is just common sense. I don't even know that I think a woman should have her "choice" taken away but I do think abortion should not be considered birth control. If you don't want to have a baby and CHOOSE abortion, and it happens again and again, how about an old fashioned TUBAL LIGATION? All this talk truly makes me ill to my stomach.
I'm curious how many of you out there are willing to fess up about an abortion and sharing your feelings about your "choice." My sister had a "choice" to make years ago and she has nightmares about it still. The guilt she has felt is unreal. Maybe some of you do live with yourselves and I honestly think any woman who has made this "choice" and can live with herself without any sort of guilt EVER, is just a very hard person.
Abortion
I agree
you won't go into abortion because........ sm
somewhere, deep inside, you know it is murder...a sin in God's eyes just as much as adultery.
The issue is not about choice (and I have other views on that word as well) but about the taking of innocent lives who have no voice to speak for themselves. As far as welfare....it's coming already and it won't be me who pays, unless that top income bracket keeps spiraling downward into the low 5-figure numbers which is not an impossibility.
On abortion
Solomon's wisdom still at work today.....
A worried woman went to her gynecologist and said:
'Doctor, I have a serious problem and desperately need your help! My baby is not even 1 yr. old and I'm
pregnant again. I don't want kids so close together.'
So the doctor said: 'Ok, and what do you want me to do?'
She said: 'I want you to end my pregnancy, and I'm counting on your help with this.'
The doctor thought for a little, and after some silence he said to the lady: 'I think I have a better solution
for your problem. It's less dangerous for you too.' She smiled, thinking that the doctor was going to accept
her request.
Then he continued: 'You see, in order for you not to have to take care of 2 babies at the same time, let's
kill the one in your arms. This way, you could rest some before the other one is born. If we're going to kill
one of them, it doesn't matter which one it is. There would be no risk for your body if you chose the one in your
arms.'
The lady was horrified and said: 'No doctor! How terrible! It's a crime to kill a child!'
'I agree', the doctor replied. 'But you seemed to be ok with it, so I thought maybe that was the best
solution.' The doctor smiled, realizing that he had made his point.
He convinced the mom that there is no difference in killing a child that's already been born and one that's
still in the womb. The crime is the same!
Oh if our current judicial system could only understand this fact.
Abortion..............s/m
You can talk your heart out, I was, am and will always be pro-abortion.
Till to the end of the 3rd month of pregnancy it is the mother who has the right to end the pregnancy.
Who is going to help me in all aspects if I, as the mother, know that I will most probably not be able to care and provide for this child? Not for all mothers is the option of adoption, this means GIVING AWAY one's flesh and blood to STRANGERS an acceptable option.
I am against partial birth abortion.
Really, no one is pro-abortion......
The term is pro-choice and there are a lot of Americans who are pro-choice. If you think they are going to overturn Roe vs Wade to satisfy less than half the population - you will be disappointed. This is just a political joust to get people arguing - with no end in sight. Give it up. They thought they'd win another election with this tired, worn out "issue" - and they were wrong.
And this is different from abortion... How? sm
Abortion is the ending of a life, plain and simple. Yet people get all up in arms when their "right to choose" is taken away from them.
I am not advocating this woman's choice in the least. I personally think she should be prosecuted for what she has done, just as I believe women who have abortions and the doctors who perform them should be prosecuted. There is no difference.
I feel the same way about abortion. sm
nm
I don't know where they want to go with it, but abortion is a choice..sm
and last time I checked it was not limited to one race. Can that same one prove that more blacks abort than whites? There goes that theory.
abortion will always be, whether legal or not
What these anti pro choice people dont seem to realize is, termination of pregnancy will continue whether it is legal or not. The only difference is it will go underground, performed by people who are not licensed and the rich women, they will just make an appointment in a progressive not backward country like America and have their abortion. Essentially women will be baby makers for the government, their bodies controlled by the government. What it comes down to is..the neocons need to mind their own business.
What bothers me about abortion is...
the enormous numbers that need to be performed. In an age where birth control is so readily available and so reliably effective, that there are still SO MANY women seeking abortions, tells me one thing.....
People are careless, that is all. What other conclusion could you draw? If you only had true accidental pregnancies resulting from the small percentage failure rate of most contraceptives, the incest, the rapes, and the abortions to save a woman's life, it still wouldn't add up to a tiny fraction of the abortions we have now.
Every time I hear someone say that that it's a woman's right to choose, or to control her own body, I can't help but hear a little voice saying... THEN CHOOSE NOT TO GET PREGNANT, BE RESPONSIBLE, DON'T HOOK UP WITH SOME LOSER IN A BACK SEAT WHILE YOU'RE LOADED UP ON BOOZE, AND CONTROL YOUR BODY.
Why does choicie and control of one's body only begin after conception takes place?
Okay....McCain is against abortion....
is that better than calling him pro life?
"He voted against sending innocent Americans to a country we had no business going to all because of lies put out by the "republicans"."
First, I am not a Republican, but you cannot lay all the blame for going to war at the feet of Republicans, that's number one. A good many Democrats voted to go to war, otherwise we would not have gone to war. They were talking about regime change in Iraq when Clinton was President. Bush did not invent it. In fact, when Bush was elected the first time, he kept Richard Clarke and George Tenet over from the Clinton administration...both of whom brought with them the idea of regime change in Iraq from the Clinton administration. You should read the quotes from Democrats from the Clinton era through 2003. Either they were all lying too or they believed the intelligence too. I just don't get how people can read those quotes, totally ignore them, and say it was all Bush's lie or the Republicans' lies. I refer you to a post below that illustrates all those quotes. Either they were all lying, Clinton, Bush, CLarke, Tenet, all those Democrats including Teddy Kennedy, John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, and on and on...either they were ALL lying or they ALL believed the intelligence. That is the ONLY thing that makes any sense based on their own quotes out of their own mouths. This old chestnut of "Bush lied men died" and "all caused by Republican lies" is the biggest lie of all.
How you vote is your business and you should do whatever your conscience tells you to do, as I am.
As to Jill Stanek...google her. The story is true. If the story were NOT true, the hospital she names would sue her, don't you think? They don't sue because it happened. They issued a birth and death certificate for that child. Everyone knows what happened. She came forward to try to get a law passed that would prohibit that from every happening again (and bless her for doing so) and Obama voted against it...3 times. That is a matter of record in the Illinois state senate. He and his wife are vocal supporters of all forms of abortion, including partial birth abortion. You heard him say in the video that "options should not be limited." That is exactly what he meant. And that, my friend, devalues human life and makes him doubly dangerous as far as I am concerned. And he said it with equal "lack of emotion."
Yes, it was barbaric to let that poor child just die. Horrific. Just as horrific is partial birth abortion. Look that up some time, what they actually do during that procedure, just to avoid what happened above...a live birth. They turn the child breech so that all the body except the head can be born. Then the needle at the base of the skull, suck the brain out and collapse the skill, killing the baby so that it is "born dead." Because if the head came first and the baby took a breath and THEN the brain was sucked out...THAT would be murder. So some inventive doctor figured turn the baby around and suck the brain out while the head is still inside the mother. That is barbaric. And it happens every day in this country. Legally. John McCain is against that. Barack Obama is for that. Enough said as far as I am concerned. And I agree...when are enough murdered babies enough? How many more million?
Spontaneous abortion is hardly....
the same thing as induced abortion...that's a stretch.
Okay, if where I get my polls is wrong and where you get yours is right, why not put it a vote of the people? Because, no matter what someone "says," it is a different story when you have to pull the lever and put what you say into action. Congress would never act on it or you would have a real abortion law instead of one shoved down our throats by judges. Just a question here...suppose a conservative majority got in the supreme court and struck down Roe vs. Wade? Would you defend their right to do that the same away you defend their right to strike down a law making abortion illegal? Somehow I doubt it. Would probably be first in line to say you can't legislate from the bench...just like I am saying. They are to interpret law..not make law. But, doesn't matter. It's a done deed. But last time I looked I had the right as s citizen to oppose it. Just exercising my right. Sorry if it chaps.
Good grief...silly statement. Of course I don't picture a 9-month gestation. I picture a human life being snuffed out. I see one human being given total control over the life of another. And to me, that is wrong. Especially one who is defenseless.
There is much more there than a "mass of cells" at 8, 10, 12 weeks. And if it makes you feel better to think it feels no pain, fine. I am not willing to assume that.
I agree whole-heartedly with everything you said in your last paragraph, but I would like to add teach responsibility for one's own actions. There are Planned Parenthood Clinics everywhere and if not, your local health department will dole out birth control. That is a pretty lame excuse as far as I am concerned. But what is the motivation for anyone to seek it? We already have a legal "oops" method in place.
Wow....have seen abortion videos before but....
whew. The responsibility of knowledge. People should realize the ramifications of "choice." They should know what they are choosing and supporting. Absolutely horrific. Can't hardly type this for the tears.
You hypocrites..abortion is ok, but
nm
And how do you feel about abortion?
nm
about the abortion issue
At least that explains why u are for McCain. What I don't understand is pro choice people voting for McCain. Nobody said it's murder or not murder. I personally think it isn't and you personally think it is. Why are there no funerals for fetuses of miscarriages? yes, it is a moral issue but I will not dictate to someone that if they are raped OR whatever the reason is.. that they cannot have an abortion. That said, it does explain why you vote for McCain. The other people are a mystery.
Well, Biden is against abortion.
I think a woman should have a right to choose no matter what the circumstance. And all of you saying you want to pay more taxes for these children born out of wedlock like Palin's daughter, then you're being hypocritical. You either want to pay more for these programs or you don't.
Just because someone wants to adopt a child doesn't mean they are good parents.
FYI to poster in this thread; STDs do take lives. AIDS kills. If the doctor doesn't treat the patient and educate them on safety especially homosexuals, an STD will take a life.
There is no one forcing you to get an abortion. nm
.
Abortion : adoption....s/m
What reasoning is it that the GOVERNMENT or CHURCH has the right to decide what happens to M Y embryo????
Up to the 5th month, later it is a crime.
I am absolutely AGAINST partial birth abortion, only if the life of the mother is in danger.
Hate to say anything on here but I do not believe in abortion either.
To each her own, but I would always wonder what the sex of my baby would have been and what kind of a person s/he would be in life, would cry at every birthday, holiday, etc., etc. My life would be "ruined" and I don't know how I would live with myself. But that's just me and I have a right to my opinion as do the rest but I don't think baby bashing is the right way to go. I do think it is a baby from conception and the only way to avoid getting pregnant is to say "no" to "him" not "no" to a baby. Watch the flaming I get now! I guess I will just stay off here for awhile and be happy around the holidays. Too much fighting on here - unhealthy place sometimes!
We were talking about abortion...... sm
And that statement was in the context of an unborn child who God does take sometimes for reasons unknown to us.
Don't try to compare apples to oranges. I'm not going to get into a long theological discussion on this forum with you because it is not the place, so we have been told by the moderators.
Abortion - tolerance?
I ask this in the politest way possible and with all due respect. I felt the need to say this after reading the posts below.
Is it possible to be a little more sensitive to those who have undergone an abortion for whatever reason and to be careful on the words being chosen, such as "murder." I'm sure there are some reading these posts who have had an abortion. It can be a very traumatizing thing to go through, which you cannot take back. There are some of us who have become pregnant with very deformed babies that would be extremely difficult to raise, including the possibility of not surviving after birth, where the choice to abort was difficult but a personal decision. I'm not saying it's the right choice. I'm just saying sometimes a woman feels there is no other.
I say this from experience because I had to make that choice, and when I read that people think I'm a murderer and killed my baby, it makes it that much more hard to bear because I will always, always regret it. I know I'm forgiven, but sometimes it's still hard to think---what if.
Just please be sensitive with the words you choose, and know there are those of us out here who have made this choice and regret it and have to live with it for the rest of our lives.
If you are against abortion, that's your business, but...
You have got a lot of nerve comparing abortion to the Holocaust!
Abortion is nothing new to this world....
Abortions have been carried out for centuries. The only difference is, they are legal in this country for the safety of the mother. I am not pro-abortion, but I am pro-choice. You have the right to what you wish with your body, I have the right to do the same. Keep your nose out of my womb.
OBAMANOMICS - abortion ?
GhostMom is absolutely correct. This is her choice. What right does anyone have to dictate to her NOW, about her job. First it is the abortion issue, and now you want to dictate to people what they can and can not do. Sounds Hitler-ian to me. This is preposterous. He has no experience in anything. I hope he gets stopped before my/your children have no future.
every once in a while the issue about abortion
comes up, leads to a lot of insulting and flaming comments back and forth, with no resolve.
Can we just stop discussing this issue?????
BTW, I am pro-choice, up to the end of 3rd month, it is my body and my life and my right to decide how many children I want to have, because I want to be able to care for ALL of my children, without needing support from charity organizations, the government or other people and I am AGAINST adoption.
This Octomon should have had my attitude, then she would NOT be in this miserable situation.
Please, NO REBUTTALS AND NO INSULTS following my post!
every once in a while the issue about abortion
comes up, leads to a lot of insulting and flaming comments back and forth, with no resolve.
Can we just stop discussing this issue?????
BTW, I am pro-choice, up to the end of 3rd month, it is my body and my life and my right to decide how many children I want to have, because I want to be able to care for ALL of my children, without needing support from charity organizations, the government or other people and I am AGAINST adoption.
This Octomon should have had my attitude, then she would NOT be in this miserable situation.
Please, NO REBUTTALS AND NO INSULTS following my post!
every now and then the issue pro-abortion
versus pro-life comes up on this forum. People comment back and forth until it gets out ouf hand and bashing sets in. Every time it ends in this way.
My opinion: It is justifiable to termiante a pregnancy up to the end of the 3rd month. AFTER that not.
I would regard an abortion performed during the last trimester of the pregnancy, what is called 'partial birth' abortion, as a crime and doctors who perform those abortions should definitely get punished and their license wtihdrawn.
Under no circumstances should it be allowed that a person kills a doctor who performs 'partial-birth' abortions. This renders also this person a murderer.
Please do not bash me for condoning abortions up to the end of the 3rd month, because I think that a mother has the right to decide. If during these 3 months she could not decide, then she should maintain her pregnancy, no abortion allowed.
While I disagree with abortion...
I do not think that calling what this nutjob did God's work is correct, nor is it really very smart. This only sets back any sort of headway that might be made for the pro-life movement by painting anyone who is pro-life as just as crazy as the man who murdered this abortionist. My God does not believe that two wrongs make a right. Both of these men are going to the very hot place in my book.
He believes in abortion. NM below
x
abortion versus rudolph
Science has not determined when life begins, at conception? After the first trimester? But the argument is moot, actually, as it is legal to get an abortion, it is not legal to take the law into your own hands and kill because you do not agree with the legal medical procedure that is being performed. Enormous difference. Law abiding citizens do not kill because they disagree with the law.
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