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I'm not Muslim, but...

Posted By: Marmann on 2008-11-19
In Reply to: I have a friend whose husband is Muslim - she told me (sm) - MeMT

...the very first time I heard Obama speak at the Democratic convention, I remember thinking that he will be President someday.


Maybe it's more of an "Obama" thing than a "Muslim" thing.




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He is Muslim, born Muslim, raised Muslim
++
He was born to a Muslim father and raised Muslim
for a time. You don't get to choose to drop out of that religion. Doesn't matter if you were born into it and didn't choose it to begin with. Leaving earns you a death sentence, especially such a public conversion to another religion.  Why does he get to be a Christian now and nobody in radical Islam is calling for his head on pike?  Unless.......
Going to a Muslim school doesn't make him Muslim
And point of fact is that it was 2 years in Catholic school, 2 years in a "Muslim" school. He was living in Indonesia. He had to attend school in Indonesia. His mother, doing what mothers do, wanted him to get the best education available. She tried 2 years at the Catholic school and then determined at that point that the quality of education provided was better at the Muslim school. There was some teaching of Muslim philosophy but this more emphasis was paid to standard educational requirements, what's referred to as the 3 Rs (Reading, wRiting, 'Rithmetic).

Attending a school with some affiliation does not automatically confer the same status on you. Jews can go to Catholics without converting. Whites can go to those schools thought of as primary African-American without becoming black. Sometimes, folks, a school is just a school, and 2 years in an extremely secular school at the ages of 8-10 does not turn him into a radical Muslim.

Frankly, his education and family life seems like it makes him almost the perfect president to be able to understand and empathize with a much wider range of American citizens than any president before him.
Why is it racist to call a Muslim a Muslim?
A Christian doesn't mind being called a Christian.

Your phony indignation just proves how oversensitive people are to perceived slights these days.
He has a Muslim name and comes from
stretch, really, and the fact that Dems want to completely disown that are just as asinine as the Repubs that keep harping on it. He has Muslim in his background and went to a Muslim school, this is fact. He might not be a practicing Muslim NOW, but he was taught Muslim beliefs at an impressionable age. Hard to say if any of it stuck, and of course he'd never say if it did. Muslims planned attacks against us for YEARS, right under our nose in our own country. It's beyond me how anyone can ignore the idea that they also might be capable of taking a young man, shaping him and his background to one day become POTUS, thereby accomplishing precisely what they continually threaten: To destroy us from within. They probably laugh at how quickly Americans embraced someone with Muslim name and former Muslim ties, and even if Obama's not their man, now they know how easy it would be.
I don't believe that every Muslim

is a terrorist.  I believe that there are good people and bad people....just like every other race, religion, etc.  However, when it comes to Jihadists who can come over to our country and blend in with good muslims who reside in our country and are willing to kill themself as long as they take out as many "infidels" as they can.....that is what gives us all fear.  You can't look at Muslims and pick out the ones who would willingly befriend you and the one who would much rather blow you up.  It has made many of us scared of ALL muslims and not just the ones responsible for these horrible acts.


Not a Muslim
He's not a Muslim. Think about it - how many muslims do you know are pro gay rights and pro choice?
he is a muslim
He said so himself on TV.
he is a muslim
His full name is Barrack Hussain Obama.
If he is a Muslim then why has he ...sm
practiced Christianity for 20 years, I believe it is? Muslims do not practice Christianity. His father was a Muslim from Africa. He was raised by his grandmother and mother and was a Christian.
Okay, he is not muslim, but


I have nothing against the Muslim religion anyway

I would bet that there are millions of Muslims throughout the world who are exceptionally good, hardworking people.  It seems to me that each religion has people who will try to twist it around as an excuse to do just about anything.  Look at those Baptists down south who protest gays at dead soldiers funerals because they say God is killing all these soldiers because American is getting too accepting of gay people.  These Baptists are obviously horrible people, but does that mean all Baptists distort their religion to spew hate and prey on grieving families?  Of course not.


I could care less what religion Obama is or was at one time.  I think he is an excellent candidate.  He is one of the few people who could turn this country (and maybe even this world) around.  We need someone strong enough and smart enough to lead this country and help to unite us again, and I think he's the man for the job.  I also agree with what someone else said in regard to his knowledge of the Muslim religion/culture being a good thing, especially considering our current dire situation.


really? well it is written that he was a muslim
http://freedomsenemies.com/_more/obama.htm
Obama/muslim
All this hoopla about Obama being muslim.  Has anyone bothered to go to the Rev. Jeremiah's church website and read what they believe?  Now that'll scare the daylights out ofya.  Amazes me how people will gag at a knat and swallow a camel.  Then there's McCain who scares the bejezus out of me.  We simply can't afford 4 more years of Bush-nomics nor can we afford 100 more years in Iraq,  I won't vote for either of them but if someone held a gun to my head and I had to choose, I would take my chances with the unknown Obama rather than the known McCain.  Before someone tells me to get my facts straight, I have.  I've been fanatic in reading and listening to everything about both of them trying to find something I can support, which I haven't yet done.  My mind is not colored by either "Democrat" or "Republican."  People had better wake up before it's too late if it isn't already.  LIke all this pig/bulldog/soccer mom/lipstich crap, nothing more than to keep silly American citizens' minds off the REAL issues. This campaign, on both sides, is a disgrace to this GREAT NATION.
The fact that he has a Muslim name
means exactly what?  We will be destroyed from within but it won't be any one person who will destroy us.  We, the people, will destroy ourselves from within and we're contributing to it right here on this forum!!!!! 
You obviously have no clue as to the Muslim...sm
or any other religion other than your own. There a zealots in every religion, I repeat, EVERY religion, closed minded people who believe everything that they hear from dubious sources. Do you know anything about any religion other than Christian? I should mention that I am a Christian. The Muslim religion is very devout, fundimentally believe in the same God Christians believe in, they believe in peace and goodness for their people. They believe Jesus was a good man, a prophet, but do not believe he is the son of God. I have Muslim friends. They DO NOT believe in the extremism of Osama bin Laden and are proud Americans. Something that everyone should keep in mind is that every? major war that has been fought in history has been somehow or other be fought or justified by involking the name of God.
Now why does Obama need a Muslim

http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/3557 


I have also been in a Muslim country
And, as a westerner, which we were referred to, ALL western women are seen as loose women, basically whores; there is no respect there. I was given rules like don't use your left hand because that's vile, don't reprimand your child in public; that's wrong also, the rules went on and on and on. Women are treated like dirt where I was and in most Muslim countries. They get raped; they are guilty. They get stoned, they are beaten. I saw this. That is not love.
He is Christian but I am Muslim and I have to tell you.....
There are wonderful muslims just like there are wonderful Christians. Then there are those Christians who bomb abortion clinics. There is Timothy McVeigh who was a Christian. Obama is not a muslim, but what if he were? I think you are racist. Be ashamed.
but he did have a Muslim upbringing. He sm
can't/won't produce any documentation that proves he was born in the United States because he wasn't. If you are not a US Citizen, you CAN'T be president of the United States.
Black? You mean muslim.
x
I don't know much about the Muslim religion (sm)
but I do know that no one is born a Christian. That is not how we see it. You can be born to a Christian family and be taught Christian beliefs but you have to consciously decide to become a Christian, it is not something you are automatically born as.
Muslim? Christian?
PLEASANTVILLE, Iowa (CNN) -– Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama was asked about his "Muslim background" by a potential voter at a coffee shop Saturday, and used the encounter as an opportunity to try to put to rest stories that he said had been "misreported."

Obama joined a group of four women in a booth to eat some pumpkin pie and sip a cup of tea. One of the women asked him how his "Muslim background" would affect his decisions as president.

"This is something that keeps on being misreported, so I’m glad you asked me," Obama, who is Christian, said.

He told them his father had lived in a Muslim-dominated village in Kenya, but “didn’t practice Islam."

"Truth is, he wasn’t very religious,” said Obama. “He met my mother. My mother was a Christian from Kansas, and they married, and then divorced. I was raised by my mother. So I’ve always been a Christian."

He also touched on the fact that he lived in the Muslim country of Indonesia for four years of his childhood.

"I didn’t practice [Islam]," Obama continued, but added that being in that area had given him "insight into how these folks think."

Just before being pulled away from the table by a staffer, Obama told the women he had been a member of the Trinity United Church of Christ for the past 15 years.

My question is:
How can a child whose father is a nonpracticing Muslim, devorced from the mother, a Christian, and far away, become a practicing Muslim, when it is raised in the west? It cannot.

Some posters say that O's mother was an 'atheist'?? That's the first time I hear this.
She was a Christian and they, mother and grandmother, raised O as a Christian.



Did you ever think maybe the reason is that he was not Muslim? nm
x
Oh yes, he WAS a practicing Muslim......
XX
Muslim Demographics

Speaking of muslim terrorists
tell me, if Bush is such a great leader how come he has not gotten Bin Laden..remember him? the planner of 09/11? I think you have forgotten 09/11. Oh and imagine if Bush and the administration had actually paid some attention to the memos coming across their desks, you know, the ones about how bin laden was goingto use airplanes to attack etc..maybe just maybe, 09/11 wouldnt have happened at all.
Actually, he professes to be Christian, not Muslim...
but the church he went to for 20 years really was basically racist and that is about as unChristian as you can get IMHO. But as to his being a practicing Muslim...if he is he is hiding it pretty well. And he is virulently pro abortion and Muslims are basically against it, so not sure at all he is Muslim. However, I DO think he has predisposed sympathies toward them BECAUSE of his upbringing. I think anyone would be kinda foolish not to see that, because like you said...he brings it up constantly and it is prominent in his book. But...I digress...

What really concerns me about Obama is number one, he goes to a foreign country and calls himself a "citizen of the world." I think that's wrong. But that is just me. He goes to a foreign country to give a speech to them while running for office in this country. That is basically thumbing his nose at us...in a way.

Number two, look at his associations in Chicago...look at the people he has associated with...who his friends are.

Number three, look at his voting record. No matter how moderate he wants us to think he is, he has voted consistently hard left. No matter how much he talks about "hope" and "change" it is the same old socialist rhetoric...let us tie you even more to the government for your every need, because when we have you dependent for everything...gotcha.

If he is elected, taxes will go up significantly. And not just the "rich" (who, by the way, already pay over 90% of all income tax...enough already). He cannot possibly do everything he promises without substantial tax increases. Don't know about you, but I think we pay enough...ALL of us.

And last but certainly not least...I shudder to think how he will handle a crisis...on the Georgia/Russia thing he says: "Well Russia just needs to stop the aggression." Which says to Georgia, a democracy, a USA ally, "you are basically on your own." McCain says: "We are all Georgians today." That, in my humble opinion, speaks volumes about this country and her safety with an Obama presidency.
Obama's Muslim Connection

OBAMA'S MUSLIM CONNECTION



 


 


 


By Jon Christian Ryter


January 16, 2008


NewsWithViews.com


In 1991 a young Muslim Harvard Law College graduate named Barack Hussein Obama (who has denied his Islamic past and Muslim roots for as long as he has been a public figure) became a civil rights community activist working out of the Trinity United Church of Christ. Obama worked as a community organizer for Trinity in poor black neighborhoods. Trinity's senior pastor Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr, a black racist, who preached radical Afrocentric theology and didn't mind delivering profanity-spiked sermons found a congregation-builder in Obama. Because of what Wright called Obama's multiple-faith background and his Harvard education, he was a natural community-builder.

When Obama broke onto the national political scene in 2004, not only did he attempt to erase all traces his Islamic childhood, but he also tried to erase the nature of his relationship with Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr, the pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ. (When your country is at war with Islamic extremists being a Muslim is not the shortest route to the White House.) Obama has told the media his reason for shielding his pastor was because "...he respected Mr. Wright's work for the poor and his fight against injustice." In reality Dr. Wright's work was to denounce the United States as a white racist nation. That's not good press for an African American candidate who needs to win a majority of the white vote to win the office of President.

It would have been not only natural, but expected, for Barack Obama—when he decided to run for the presidency—to make the announcement from the pulpit of the 8,500 member Trinity United Church of Christ. Obama would later state he did not in order to shield his pastor from the spotlight of the media. Dr. Wright has never shunned positive publicity. It was obvious to the media—in particular the New York Times which noted in an April 20, 2007 article that Obama was very deliberately distancing himself from Jeremiah Wright. Instead, Obama announced his candidacy on the steps of the old State Capitol in Springfield, Illinois—where Abraham Lincoln announced his candidacy—on Feb. 10, 2007. Obama sees himself as an archtype of Lincoln who will "free his people from the tyranny of the oppressor." What people are those? The inner city people of color whom Dr. Wright believes are part of the Black Value System? Or does he see himself as the man who will free the Muslim world from the Great Satan since his first action, he says, as President of the United States will be to pull all Americans troops out of the Middle East? The voters need to figure out exactly who Barack Obama's constituents really are because when I add 2 + 2 + Obama, it doesn't come out four.

When Obama's early history and his Islamic upbringing was first reported, Obama's website posted a statement dated Nov. 12, 2007 with the headline: "Barack Obama is Not and Has Never Been a Muslim." The statement reiterated that Obama was not a Muslim, was not raised as a Muslim, and is a committed Christian.

On Dec. 22 at the Smoky Row Coffee Shop in Oskaloosa, Iowa, the locals asked Obama about his Muslim roots. He said: "My father was from Kenya. A lot of people in his village were Muslim. He didn't practice Islam. Truth is, he wasn't very religious." That was a lie. Obama's father and stepfather were devout Islamics. Both faithfully practiced their religion. His stepfather, who had a much greater impact on Obama's upbringing, was a radical Wahabbi Muslim. "My mother was a Christian from Kansas." That was also a lie. Obama's mother, his material grandmother and grandfather were all atheists. "They married and then divorced. I was raised by my mother. So, I've always been a Christian. The only connection I've had to Islam is that my grandfather on my father's side came from that country. But I've never practiced Islam...For a while I lived in Indonesia because my mother was teaching there. And that's a Muslim country. And I went to school—but I didn't practice Islam." Another lie. Obama's mother married Lolo Soetoro, a Wahabbi extremist who lived in Indonesia. When Obama's mother moved to Indonesia—before she married her second Muslim husband—she enrolled her son in Francis Assisis Catholic School. He was enrolled as a Muslim because he was a Muslim. The enrollment form required each student to choose one of five state-sanctioned religions when enrolling: Buddhist, Catholic, Hindu, Muslim, or Protestant. Had he been a lifelong Christian, or even a recent convert, he—or his mother—would have circled Protestant.

When confronted with this information, Obama said he couldn't understand how such an error could have happened. Los Angeles Times reporter Paul Watson, who dug into Obama's allegation of error, said "...his former Roman Catholic and Muslim teachers, along with two people who were identified by Obama's grade school teacher as childhood friends, says Obama was registered by his family as a Muslim at both schools he attended. The registration meant that during the third and fourth grades, Obama learned about Islam for two hours each week in religion classes. The childhood friends say Obama sometimes went to Friday prayers at the local mosque." (Something else Obama claims he never did.) "...Obama's younger sister, Maya Soetoro, said in a statement released by the campaign that the family attended the mosque only 'for big communal events' not every Friday." Obama, who belongs to a church that teaches that the Muslims of the world were wronged by both Israel and the United States, cannot afford to be labeled as a "Muslim" by voters who expect the United States to win the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan where their sons and daughters are being killed by Muslims.

Jim Wallis, a Christian antipoverty community activist and a friend of Obama's said Obama comes from a very secular, skeptical family. His faith is a personal and adult choice. His material grandparents—who were professing atheists—had previously been Baptist and Methodist. His mother's tutelage leaned towards Islam only because her new husband was an ardent Muslim—and he demanded it.

She was not, however, the docile Muslim housewife most Muslim men expected. Obama's half-sister Maya admitted that her "...whole family was Muslim, and most of the people I knew were Muslim." Because religion of any type rubbed his mother the wrong way, when he was 10, Obama's mother sent her son back to Hawaii to live with her parents.

In 2005 Obama met his paternal step-grandmoher (whom he calls his grandmother). Sarah Hussein Obama, 85, who lives in Kenya. She told the New York Times that she is "...a strong believer of Islamic faith," adding that she still rises at 5 a.m. to pray for an hour before tending to her crops and the three orphans she has taken in.

A camera which caught Obama on the political stage during a fund raiser for Sen. Tom Harkin in Iowa with presidential candidates Bill Richardson and Hillary Clinton shows his lack of respect to this nation during the singing of the National Anthem. Angered that the photo was released (and because the reporter erroneously stated the photo was taken during the Pledge of Allegiance rather than the singing of the national anthem, Obama said: "This is the classic dirty trick. This was not the Pledge of Allegiance. The woman was singing the Star Spangled Banner."

As a sign of respect to their nation, many Americans place their hand over their heart when the National Anthem is played as well as when they recite the Pledge. In his case, Obama said "...I was taught by my grandfather that you put your hands over your heart during the Pledge of Allegiance. The Star Spangled Banner, you sing." Only, when you look at the photo, its very clear that neither Obama nor the others on stage are singing. It was, however, the singing of the national anthem.


All the time he was around either his father or stepfather, Obama was either in Hawaii or Indonesia. Thus, neither his paternal grandfather nor the father of his stepfather would have tutored him on placing his hand over his heart during the US Pledge of Allegiance, nor the singing the American Star Spangled Banner. Rest assured that Indonesian homes don't recite the Pledge or sing the US national anthem. And while Hawaii had been a State for three years before Obama was born, logic suggests its not likely an atheist mother and an Islamic father would teach him to recite the Pledge of Allegiance or sing the Star Spangled Banner.

In his teen years Obama moved back to Honolulu where he lived with his maternal grandparents. In his rebuttal, you will recall, Obama claimed his grandfather had taught him to place his hand over his heart during the Pledge, and to sing the national anthem. History has a problem with that on both sides of the family. Like his mother who was an atheist, so were her parents. Obama's grandmother, he said in interviews, "...was too rational and too stubborn to accept anything she couldn't see, feel, touch or count." His maternal grandfather was also an atheist who "...had an innate rebelliousness and a complete inability to discipline his appetites...who...experimented with marijuana and cocaine." An atheist is not going to teach his grandson to respect the Pledge of Allegiance which pays homage to God.

In August, 2006 US Senator Barack Obama [D-IL] made a special trip to visit a special man in Kenya. The man's name was Raila Amolo Odinga. He is the head of the National Muslim Leaders Forum [NAMLEF] in Kenya. The political party he heads is called the Orange Democratic Movement [ODM]—although there is definitely nothing democratic about his political party of NAMLEF. The ODM is dedicated to overthrowing the legitimate democratic government of Kenya. Odinga is not really concerned how he achieves his objective. It matters little to him if he assumes power through a free election—or by revolution. But, by hook or crook, he is determined to become the president of Kenya. If he succeeds, he will be president for life and Kenya will become another Afghanistan.

When the US Senator visited Kenya to meet with Odinga in Nairobi, the Kenyan government officially denounced the visit. And, most specifically, they denounced Obama. According to a Kenyan government spokesman, Obama's bias for his friend was so blatant that the government found it necessary to complain that Obama appeared to be Odinga's stooge. Not only did Obama campaign for his Islamic friend, he convinced former Clinton adviser Dick Morris to become Odinga's campaign adviser.

Odinga bothers the US State Department for a couple of reasons. First, after losing the democratic election on December 27, Raila Odinga cut a deal for support from Vladimir Putin and the former Soviet Union. Odinga knows he has to overthrow the government to gain power. When he lost the election, he protested that the vote was rigged to keep him from claiming an election he won. He incited his tribal followers to go on a murderous rampage in towns that were primarily Christian. Throughout Kenya, hundreds of people were murdered. What shocked the west is that the Kenyan media—and the political power brokers within the country—out of fear of Odinga, appear to be suggesting that perhaps the election should be held over to stop the violence and the potential for long term Muslim terrorism.

In a wave of violence aimed at protesting what they call the illegal election of newly-elected Kenyan President Mwai Kibaki, a group of Christian women and children—some entire families—barricaded themselves in a church. Muslims, inflamed by Odinga's men, torched the church and burned to death everyone inside. This is the man Obama campaigned for in Kenya, and sang the praises of. This is also the man who claims that Barack Obama is a close, personal friend. Christianity would be outlawed.

There would be a complete ban on the public consumption of alcoholic beverages and a ban on western-style dress for women since this type of garb is considered immoral and an offense to the Muslim faith. Raila Obinga, it seems, would impose the same type of Shariah law that was imposed on Afghanistan by the Taliban. Odinga would degree that no Muslim living in Kenya—whether a citizen, visitor or relative of a citizen of Kenya (such as Obama, whose grandmother is a citizen of Kenya)‚shall be subject to any legal process involving the laws of a foreign country and in particular any Muslim arrested for, or suspected of, terrorism, or of any other international crimes shall only be tried inside the borders of Kenya and shall be granted a competent lawyer of his or her choice at the expense of the government.

 

The American people need to be asking Barack Obama a whole different list of questions when they attend his political rallies on his quest to become the leader of the free world. They need to ask the man who he really is because, up to this point on the campaign trail, he has lied to them. The American people need to find an honest candidate. Barack Obama is not that man.


Obama's Muslim Connection
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp
There are many Muslim-Americans who are citizens of the US. (nm)
They are eligible to vote in the presidential election and are just as concerned about the important political issues as everyone else in this country!
Maybe.....sounds like Muslim donations which
xx
His own mother signed him up as Muslim
This was at a public school in Indonesia, where other faiths are taught as well. The records are there in his mother's handwriting. She signed him up not to have Christian lessions but Islamic.
At least they're not Muslim terrorists
--
By his own words Obama said he was a Muslim - and
Yes, Obama has been telling people he is a Christian, but he is (or was) a Muslim. You all think its wrong to be a Muslim, yet you have no idea on what a Muslim is (only what is told to you in your buildings you visit each week to get your weekly dose of brainshwashing).

You contradicted yourself when you said Obama is a Christian and supports equal rights, then turned around and said the Christians are the gay haters. So which is it, do they support equal right for gay people or are they the gay haters.

Lastly Obama is telling you he is a Christian because that's what most Americans want for President. The fact of the matter is he was raised in a Muslim family and studied in a Muslim school (then he went to a non-muslim school after that, but he originally went to a muslim school). He even said himself by his own words he is a Muslim. I know a lot of you will say "oh that, that was just a mistake. A slip of the tongue". Ask yourselves this....do middle eastern muslims slip and say "my christian faith"? No! This was no slip of the tongue.

BTW - I am pagan. Used to be a christian but then I woke up and wanted to learn the truth and not just follow what the carpet-layer guy posing as a minister was telling everyone.
Unfortunately, Muslim extremists don't agree with you.
xx
He is president for the Muslim population
))
Don't have to be Muslim to not give gifts -
My boss is a practicing Christian in a Southern Baptist church and she does not give Christmas presents. She does celebrate Christmas, but she says it is about love and family and celebrating Christ - and on top of that (in her words), it is Jesus's birthday and he is the only one that deserves presents on his birthday...
You're right, the Muslim is just as sick as the
the difference being they were just sick individuals. The Muslim men actually are taught they should beat or KILL the women in their families if they don't like something........that's their religion and teaching.

You don't know the difference?
No, he's sending the Muslim community a
nm
Only an uninformed person would still think he's Muslim.
sheesh
No, he's not Muslim. Do you speaky the English because
x
Agree completely......Muslim extremists are not
Heck, the media is just now putting out the so-called honor killings these muslims believe in. There is no honor to it.....it is cold-blood murder. They do it here (where they can do as they please) and they do it back in their home country, so please, there is no despair. It is a sick ideology they live by. Little boys brainwashed from childhood on to hate. The women are the ones who are in despair.
to foster relations with the Muslim voters...
both campaigns are needing those votes - not just Obama. There are Muslims in this country that are American citizens and they do get a vote too.
Obama's Latest Muslim "gaffes" ??

 


http://deepbackground.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/09/1525564.aspx


 


http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/16609/


The Muslim slip-up in full context

He didn't say he made a mistake, at least not directly after speaking the phrase, but please listen to the video and decide for yourself.  It has been taken out of context. 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpoAVAA1F30&NR=1


Fine with me as long as he didn't have a Muslim
@
"why people think Muslim is wrong"
I didn't say "I think Muslim is wrong."
It's not the Republican PARTY painting him as a Muslim.
x
I have a friend whose husband is Muslim - she told me (sm)
2 years ago that she and her husband believed O would be our next president.  She told me about him back when I had never heard of him.
American Muslim beheads wife.....
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,493645,00.html