I think it does but I do have faith there are
Posted By: sm on 2008-09-21
In Reply to: Well just for the record, my vote has nothing to do with race. sm - NCMT
good people out there too like you. So thank you for saying that. I tune in to CNN a lot of it has come up a few times that it matters. It is just depressing to me that it does still matter.
take care.
Complete Discussion Below:  marks the location of current message within thread
The messages you are viewing
are archived/old.
To view latest messages and participate in discussions, select
the boards given in left menu
Other related messages found in our database
I didn't talk down your faith but your faith
Get over yourself already. He shows the kindness and tolerance of a true Christian and not all the hating and intolerance like you and a lot of people here. Just because you are a Christian doesn't make you any better than anyone else
Faith. sm
There was a poster on this board not too long ago of the Jewish faith. He was here to discuss the situation in Israel. He was hounded from this board ruthlessly. And not by conservatives.
Faith
I am not here to discuss Israel, just replying to an abortion post. I really don't care if I am hounded by anyone. Happens all the time :-)
I have faith
and am not ashamed to express it. Seems to me democrates place their hand on the bible just like rebublicans when taking the oath of office. Do you wonder about that too?
Keep the faith. No one knows what is going,,,sm
to happen with the economy or in the world over the next few months. At least we have a glimmer of hope with Obama.
Got that right, but keep the faith.
we can get through anything. We will come out in a much better place if we simply get our collective acts together and realize that change is coming (and I DON'T mean the campaign slogan) because it has to. WE have a choice. We can take charge of the situation and face those challenges as a united front or stay sidelined and wait for our leaders to show us the way. Clearly, I know which side of that decision I come down on.
According to your faith...(sm)
Christians were at one point persecuted, and they pushed and pushed until they got their way. I guess it was okay to do that back then.
Yes, I am very derogatory about faith. sm
Thank you for noticing. Let me respond.
You wrote:
>>yet I think it takes much more "faith" in a ridiculous theory that a one-cell amoeba crawled out of a mucky ocean somewhere and through "evolution" became man. You can't "prove" that, scientists can't "prove" that, but you believe it...because somebody said and it wrote it down...sound like the Bible? lol. That too is "faith." >>
Well, first of all you're mistaken. Scientists can prove evolution and have. The only people left still trying to deny evolution are doing so because it challenges or threatens their religious beliefs. For the rest of the world it's clear there is overwhelming evidence for biologic evolution and natural selection as the way that life developed and continues to develop (or become extinct...) on Earth. Please, read up on it. Fossils. Dinosaurs. It's facinating.
Note that I'm not talking about the *origin* of life, about how it all get started. Neither science or religion can answer that question. Religion says God made everything but it doesn't answer the question of who or what made God. And evolution doesn't answer the question of how the universe and our planet came to exist in the first place, just how life evolved here on Earth. (Though I think it's entirely possible science will eventually be able to answer this question.)
Second, what you wrote is not a valid arguement because religion and science are not on equal footing. They're two completely different things. You're trying to compare apples and oranges. Let me give you a nice long quote from one of my favorite authors, Richard Dawkins (which should come as no surprise to you) because he explains it far more eloquently than I can:
'(Religious) fundamentalists know they are right because they have read the truth in a holy book and they know, in advance, that nothing will budge them from their belief. The truth of the holy book is an axiom, not the end product of a process of reasoning. The book is true, and if the evidence seems to contradict it, it is the evidence that must be thrown out, not the book. By contrast, what I, as a scientist, believe (for example, evolution) I believe not because of reading a holy book but because I have studied the evidence. It really is a very different matter. Books about evolution are believed not because they are holy. They are believed because they present overwhelming quantities of mutually buttressed evidence. In principle, any reader can go and check that evidence. When a science book is wrong, somebody eventually discovers the mistake and it is corrected in subsequent books. That conspicuously doesn't happen with holy books.'
Now to your next question:
>>And I do not understand why you have to protest against something so strongly that you feel does not exist. Why would you bother? Why does someone having a life-changing experience bother you so much?>>
The part that bothered me was not someone having a life-changing experience. What bothers me is religion. I should think that was clear. What irritated me was the comment made in the post about athiests. It was an opinion presented as fact. That irritated me enough to cause me to respond. (BTW, did you read the whole thread, or just that part? We were talking about the bible.)
You also asked why I would bother to protest about something I don't believe exists. Are you kidding me? Look at the board we're on. It's a political board. I don't believe God exists, but religion sure does and I don't want its influence in our government. I don't have time to list all the reasons I have for protesting, but that's probably the biggest - the fact that I don't want to live in a theocracy. I don't want a president who believes God talks to him and tells him what to do, for example. I want religion to stay out of our goverment, at every level. This country is not only about freedom OF regligion, it's about freedom FROM religion.
I SO agree and we are not of the same faith
I do not think Chronicles is in my bible - I have to go check that....but regardless, I totally agree with you. It says in my bible something like when chyt hits fan, it's gonna happen from the inside out.....this, to me, would be IT. I'm so not voting for him......nothign really against him, per se, but he's saying he's gonna fix every single problem in the USA - well, our economy sux....so where is the money coming from? Rhetorical question bears no answer - because it's going to come from us. Another thing - he does not have the amount of experience (governmental and the rest of it) for me to be comfortable with him as president. he ain't no JFK who came from a HUGE heavy background of experience(s). No offense meant to anyone but personally, I hope he loses - and Michelle said a month ago or two, *we are only going to do this once, and if we don't win, we are not going through this again* - I'm so praying for that to occur. y opinion, please no flames.....to each his/her own about who they want in office. 
I'd prefer someone than anyone who was running for this....but that's not gonna happen, unfortunately!!
We shall see. I never put much faith in blogs...
but, perhaps those who go to Obama will be replaced by those who come to McCain from the other side. Sorry...nothing will dampen this for me today. :)
I person of faith
who pubically ridiculed the Bible in a speech. A man who has sketchy associations. A man who attended a school in Indonesia were his school records list his religion as muslim and yet he denies ever being a muslim. A man who allowed his children to be baptized and attend a church where the pastor preached hate messages. A man who supports partial birth abortions......
Please excuse me while I vomit!
Isn't that what's known as 'blind faith'?
*
Blind faith.....
In a way it is. I have faith that God is there for me. That doesn't mean things are sugar and honey all the time, because they're definitely not.
Jesus ask of to just have the faith of a mustard seed. He is asking us to have no more faith than that of the size of a mustard seed, which is meniscule, and you will be surprised where that will take you. You know, we are asked to ask questions of God, to seek him, and ask Him to prove Himself. What better way for God to show us his love than to ask Him to prove himself?
You might just see great things happen in your life.
Having respect for faith all around?
I do. Faith and religion, two different things. I respect everyone's right to pray. I just don't think it should be made into a political issue like it has been done on this board. If it was truly a prayer request, why wasn't it on the prayer request board and the faith board?
I too do not put much faith in polls.
Did these polls have John Kerry ahead at this time during the last election. They also showed the Nixon was ahead of Kennedy. We will find out when we find out. Just go vote for who you think is best and hope for the best.
Who put faith in what government?
Who put faith in what government? I for one put NO faith in Bush from day one....he was a disastrous governor in the Lone Star, and I knew by the time he got finished with America and Americans, that we would barely be able to recognize it. You are right. The shrub did inherit at least something he should have been able to work with, but evidently it was beneath his pay grade to pay attention to such things since he had wars to wage.
Obama wants to restore a little balance...another thing the shrub monkeyed around with...especially his notorious distain for judicial powers and addiction to executive privilege. We need to take out that generic "government" reference and replace it with republicans failed us. The more power they get, the more they will fail us. Voters get that now.
Why are you lying? Obama wants stricter gun controls. He cannot take your precious guns away from you without a constitutional amendment. Defend yourselves against what? You really are a paranoid bunch, aren't you? Uh, oh....your argument just fell apart. So I ask again, can anybody explain Reagan's rambling incoherence?
Oh ye of little faith. Go to the top of the page.
nm
Right. Why cant he have faith in the people rather
nm
THIS IS NOT THE FAITH BOARD.
This is the POLITICS BOARD.
And those of different faith are probably praying
Everyone, regardless of their personal religious beliefs, is worshipping the "true" God, the one that is "true and living" to them.
No religion is better or "truer" and more "living" than another.
Your creator is "true and living" to you. Someone else's creator might be just as "true and living" to them.
No, it's called faith
and you really have to have an open mind for that. ;-)
I actually don't really care what his faith is...
and I don't care whether or not he carries on an 8 year tradition--that is between him and his God. What I don't understand is why the big announcement. If you don't care to do it, don't do it, but why make a big deal of announcing that you don't care to hold a prayer. It is almost as silly as making a big deal about eating at a burger joint.
you are still placing faith in what you sm
have done and not the finished work of Christ on the cross. You are not your own "god" which is where you are placing yourself. If you have not accepted Jesus as your Savior you will be told "depart from me ye workers of iniquity, I never knew you."
The "christian religions" that have rejected the teachings of he** will also be held to account. Again its not about religion but about salvation which is contained in the Bible, the Holy, innerrent word of God.
I pray you reconsider.
You don't know me or my faith - so don't assume
And looks like the saying is true about people who assume things.
Please see faith board....nm
x
You seem very derogatory about faith, my friend...
yet I think it takes much more "faith" in a ridiculous theory that a one-cell amoeba crawled out of a mucky ocean somewhere and through "evolution" became man. You can't "prove" that, scientists can't "prove" that, but you believe it...because somebody said and it wrote it down...sound like the Bible? lol. That too is "faith."
And I do not understand why you have to protest against something so strongly that you feel does not exist. Why would you bother? Why does someone having a life-changing experience bother you so much? You might want to examine where that comes from. Perhaps you are not as seated in your nonbelief as the poster is in her belief?
Just asking.
They are really kickin it up over there on the faith forum
I am sure they would love to have you!
Worship should be on the faith board
Obama worship should go to the faith board - what part of that don't you understand - it's pretty clear. We have a faith board for worship talk.
Probably because he never left his original faith
but only stated he was Christian to acquire more votes.
The people who leave that faith know the consequences and some live in fear the rest of his life.
Never believe he changed to begin with.
That is contradictory to what our faith teaches
You are asking us to only follow part of our faith by keeping our "religion personal". That is contradictory of what our Lord told us to do, so now you are treading on my right to follow my Lord.
Christianity is not a "blind faith". That just goes to show your lack of understanding. But since no matter what I say you will not concede to any points, this conversation has ceased to productive.
You misunderstand the nature of faith.
Faith (by which I mean true faith) is not a child's game, nor is it the idle pasttime of an adult.
Anyone who comes to the point of faith will quickly discover that what he always thought about faith before was quite wrong.
He will discover that the commandment to be child-like (trusting) has nothing to do with being childISH (silly) and, further, that trying to be child-like is the hardest thing he has ever done.
He will discover that faith is in many ways simple, but rarely easy.
He will discover that faith, far from amounting to ritualistically following a set of rules after the manner of a zombie or a slave, demands every bit of thinking ability he can muster.
You seem to feel the need to belittle people of faith, and I can't help but wonder why? Your hostility doesn't harm them in the least, and only closes you off from opportunities for discovery about a very important part of life that I don't think you really know very much about. Perhaps, never having been to the Louvre, you would refrain from scoffing at those who have been there and can say something about it first-hand.
Faith and blind loyalty are two different things
You are looking down your nose at people who differ in their beliefs than you. If we have convictions based on our faith (many faiths including Jewish, Christian/Catholic & Muslim consider Israel to be holy territory) then who are you to belittle what we see happening such as fulfilling of propehcy etc.? Just because you don't believe what is happening there has any Biblical/Koranic basis does not make us wrong or loony or whatever. Your statements basically made fun of people of faith, and I don't think that is very tolerant of you.
I have complete faith in John McCain. ...nm
x
mind reader! faith healer! nm
nm
Amen........faith of a mustard seed!!
xx
These types of discussions should be on the faith board, not here!
If you want to talk about God, take it to the faith board. Personally, I am sick and tired of hearing about it!
All the more reason to remind you faith and politics
@@
Take religious topics to Faith board. NM
NM
I am telling you the action is on the Faith Forum
The election is over and Christmas is probably not coming. They are all getting ready for the end and it is very interesting. I myself hoard spam just in case, and water, and cat liter, but not much else. Good Luck!
Faith in God is not an exclusive country club.
x
sorry, he has not yet earned my respect and blind faith ..
I did not decide who to vote for until 3 days before the election.
This blind faith people are espousing for OBama scares me as much as SOME (not all) of OBama's ideas!
My biggest concern -- so many promises .. that always is a red flag to me.
We should by nature be hopeful but wary at the same time.
HE will have my undying blind faith and support once he earns it.
He has my respect for being in the office of president, and I will try to honor his wishes and comply with what he "changes" ...
I'm sure Hitler had blind faith followers - sm
I'll bet the folks who blindly followed Hitler thought he was above reproach, just like O's fanatics think he is 'the one.'
I'll bet if you said anything ill of Hitler, their young, charismatic, shining 'hope' you would have received just as much foulness as you get on this board if you say anything negative about O.
I doubt the people who fell so in love with Hitler knew, or cared to know, a whip about his true character, his true beliefs, or his true plans. Similarly, I've yet to see any eagerness on the part of O-followers to look past the bumper sticker and take a good, hard look at the man they have just stuck America with.
Of course, the latest Tom Cruise movie on the, unfortunately, unsuccessful plot to kill Hitler shows how well Germany's shining ray of hope and change played out.
You'd think the world would be too saavy to let that happen again.
Although, if you look at the world around us, it appears we never learn anything from history.
I agree - OP should take this comment to the faith board. -nm
x
"Blind faith" would be voting for a slogan
nm
Yes, put your protest call on the Faith Board,
these people will agree with you, they live, like you, in another, imaginary world.
It is disgusting, huh? Sadly, I have lost faith
nm
A blaring example of the term, "blind faith".
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
'Bout sums up your pinhole view of the world.
My concern lies more with the lying than the faith...
There are plenty of good people who are Muslim, just as there are plenty of bad people who claim to be Christian. I see it in my church. You cannot judge an entire religion on the actions of the few, but I am troubled that he would lie about his religion to get elected. However, I am really not sure what religion he is. I dislike his politics, nonetheless. I think we are in a world of hurt either way, to be honest.
The nature of faith is that it is a crutch for those who follow
x
The dark side of faith (title of article)
(Considering how much importance the *right* religion is going to play in our future Supreme Court, I thought it was ironic that I found this at the Professional Ethics site. http://ethics.tamucc.edu/article.pl?sid=05/10/01/1656216)
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-brooks1oct01,0,3034570.story?track=hpmostemailedlink
The dark side of faithBy ROSA BROOKS
October 1, 2005
IT'S OFFICIAL: Too much religion may be a dangerous thing.
This is the implication of a study reported in the current issue of the Journal of Religion and Society, a publication of Creighton University's Center for the Study of Religion. The study, by evolutionary scientist Gregory S. Paul, looks at the correlation between levels of popular religiosity and various quantifiable societal health indicators in 18 prosperous democracies, including the United States.
Paul ranked societies based on the percentage of their population expressing absolute belief in God, the frequency of prayer reported by their citizens and their frequency of attendance at religious services. He then correlated this with data on rates of homicide, sexually transmitted disease, teen pregnancy, abortion and child mortality.
He found that the most religious democracies exhibited substantially higher degrees of social dysfunction than societies with larger percentages of atheists and agnostics. Of the nations studied, the U.S. — which has by far the largest percentage of people who take the Bible literally and express absolute belief in God (and the lowest percentage of atheists and agnostics) — also has by far the highest levels of homicide, abortion, teen pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases.
This conclusion will come as no surprise to those who have long gnashed their teeth in frustration while listening to right-wing evangelical claims that secular liberals are weak on values. Paul's study confirms globally what is already evident in the U.S.: When it comes to values, if you look at facts rather than mere rhetoric, the substantially more secular blue states routinely leave the Bible Belt red states in the dust.
Murder rates? Six of the seven states with the highest 2003 homicide rates were red in the 2004 elections (Louisiana, Mississippi, Nevada, Arizona, Georgia, South Carolina), while the deep blue Northeastern states had murder rates well below the national average. Infant mortality rates? Highest in the South and Southwest; lowest in New England. Divorce rates? Marriages break up far more in red states than in blue. Teen pregnancy rates? The same.
Of course, the red/blue divide is only an imperfect proxy for levels of religiosity. And while Paul's study found that the correlation between high degrees of religiosity and high degrees of social dysfunction appears robust, it could be that high levels of social dysfunction fuel religiosity, rather than the other way around.
Although correlation is not causation, Paul's study offers much food for thought. At a minimum, his findings suggest that contrary to popular belief, lack of religiosity does societies no particular harm. This should offer ammunition to those who maintain that religious belief is a purely private matter and that government should remain neutral, not only among religions but also between religion and lack of religion. It should also give a boost to critics of faith-based social services and abstinence-only disease and pregnancy prevention programs.
We shouldn't shy away from the possibility that too much religiosity may be socially dangerous. Secular, rationalist approaches to problem-solving emphasize uncertainty, evidence and perpetual reevaluation. Religious faith is inherently nonrational.
This in itself does not make religion worthless or dangerous. All humans hold nonrational beliefs, and some of these may have both individual and societal value. But historically, societies run into trouble when powerful religions become imperial and absolutist.
The claim that religion can have a dark side should not be news. Does anyone doubt that Islamic extremism is linked to the recent rise in international terrorism? And since the history of Christianity is every bit as blood-drenched as the history of Islam, why should we doubt that extremist forms of modern American Christianity have their own pernicious and measurable effects on national health and well-being?
Arguably, Paul's study invites us to conclude that the most serious threat humanity faces today is religious extremism: nonrational, absolutist belief systems that refuse to tolerate difference and dissent.
My prediction is that right-wing evangelicals will do their best to discredit Paul's substantive findings. But when they fail, they'll just shrug: So what if highly religious societies have more murders and disease than less religious societies? Remember the trials of Job? God likes to test the faithful.
To the truly nonrational, even evidence that on its face undermines your beliefs can be twisted to support them. Absolutism means never having to say you're sorry.
And that, of course, is what makes it so very dangerous.
|
Blind faith is foolish....people need to govern
xx
|
