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Iraq war fund

Posted By: piglet on 2007-12-13
In Reply to: Exactly.... - Observer

Iraq War Funding Imminent, Timeline Absent



After months of ranting and raving, congressional Democrats have backed down and approved funding for the war in Iraq without a troop withdrawal provision.



2nd Democratic lawmakers and staffers privately say they’re closing in on a broad budget deal that would give President Bush as much as $70 billion in new war funding.


The deal would lack a key provision Democrats had attached to previous funding bills calling for most U.S. troops to come home from Iraq by the end of 2008, which would be a significant legislative victory for Bush.


Democrats admit such a move would be highly controversial within their own party. Coming just weeks after House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-California, vowed the White House would not get another dollar in war money this year, it would further antagonize the liberal base of the party, which has become frustrated with the congressional leadership’s failure to push back on Bush’s Iraq policy.


“The base will not be happy,” said one senior Democratic aide, who requested anonymity to candidly discuss budget negotiations that have not been completed.


The Democratic aide acknowledged the president is likely to get new money for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan before Congress adjourns for the year. “Yes, in the end, that’s where we will be,” the aide said.


The bizarre thing is that everybody knew that months ago. Of course the president was going to “win” on this issue. No Congress is going to pull funds from an army currently in harm’s way. That Pelosi and company allowed this to be framed as a partisan issue was amazingly incompetent.






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And that statement is ridiculous, Iran and Iraq enemies, remember the Iran-Iraq war? Iraq would jus
nm
Bush didn't destroy Iraq. He helped to liberate Iraq.
m
Why not? Pacifists have to fund
Get a grip.
Taxpayers do not fund PBS
You obviously do not watch PBS. It is solely viewer funded and publicly owned. (Although lately I HAVE seen paid commercials on there)

I'm beginning to see the reason some of the posters here sound so ignorant.
If the cigarette tax would completely fund...
the 6 billion in revenue expanding this program is going to cost,that would be one thing. It won't. You say you wouldn't mind "having your taxes raised a little." Isn't 35-40% off the top of your gross now enough? I think it is. I think they need to proritize the spending, that is all I am saying. It seems the consensus here is that health insurance for children is the most important. Then that program should be funded first. Then decide what is the next most important issue, and fund that, and on down the line. We cannot keep adding programs, adding taxes, adding programs, adding taxes. At some point it has to stop, or those paying the taxes are going to need help from a program to eat while they are working for taxes for programs. And as more and more people opt for programs and not working and paying into the system...the situation will only get worse. You do realize that realistically this cannot continue forever....right?
401K/retirement fund

You can't "take" your pension and 401K out of the stock market if you are not retirement age.  We are stuck with whatever the companies we work for invest in. my husband and I have some choices about where we invest our 401K but they all involve mutual funds, stocks, bonds, etc.


 


Borrowing from the fund is not the only problem --
I don't want to start an argument, but part of the problem is people like my grandmother (God bless her). She drew social security benefits off my grandfather for at over 20 years. She had never paid a penny into social security. Before that, he had drawn for at least 15 years. I know that he only paid in for very few years before he started drawing. So, just the two of them drew out many more thousands of dollars than they paid in.

Now think of all the people who never paid in and are drawing and the people who paid in very little and are drawing. Then think of how many more people are drawing than are paying in right now.

The funds are just not there for people to draw all their lives. I mean get real, when it was set up, people did not live as long, they did not pay in very much at all (in fact, my grandfather regularly paid in 10 cents a week before retirement), it just does not balance out. Now with the baby boomers getting ready to draw, we are really in trouble because the days of having 6-10 kids that would be contributing are over. Most of us only have 2 or less... Do you think we will ever get back the money we have contributed? No way!!!

That's why even though I feel bad for people having to go without a raise for a couple of years, I am not going to really get too upset because at least they are benefitting somewhat - My money is just lost!

Some things to think about....
RNC fund-raising letter

Michael Steele, Chairman


Republican National Committee


310 First Street, Southeast


Washington, DC 20003


 


Mr. Steele,


 


In response to your urgent ''roll call'' of Americans... (and solicitation of a donation) I can assure you that I certainly am fed up with the Obama administration and congressional Democrats.  But I must inform you that I am equally fed up with the Republican party as well.  What’s more, I feel great sense of betrayal because I expect Democrats to act exactly as they have, but not Republicans.


 


TARP and other bailouts were not a good idea just because they were begun by Bush.  The further bailouts, stimulus, deficit increase, nationalization of American business, universal healthcare and other travesties against capitalism are not bad ideas simply because Obama owns them.  These are wrong, no matter who is in charge.  Bush threw the ball, Obama knocked it over the fence.  Way to go.


 


Only in Washington, DC does it make sense to say, ''I’ve abandoned free-market principles to save the free-market system.''   What makes our free market possible is the freedom of  losers to fail and winners to succeed.  No one and nothing is too big to fail. It’s how we weed out bad ideas.  You might remember this next time you are tempted to run a RINO for president.


 


The Republican party allowed Obama to be elected by fielding such a poor presidential candidate.  McCain:  Heck of a guy, admirable character, but not a true Republican.  By the time I voted in my state Ohio primary, any other appealing Republican candidate had dropped out.  In November I was forced simply to vote the NObama ticket.  I did not want a candidate who would ''reach across the aisle.''  I wanted a conservative Republican candidate.  Had it not been for Sarah Palin, I might as well have stayed home. 


 


I will not be attending the Republican ''listening tour.''  Listen to this:  The dismantling of the American way of life is on Republican as well as Democrat heads.  I now consider myself an Independent.  In 2012, if the Republican party manages to run a strong conservative candidate I will vote for that candidate. If the party persists in ''moving to the center'' and watering down its traditionally conservative principles, it will find itself in this identical situation.


 


Thanks for asking,  I feel much better now.


RNC fund-raising letter

Michael Steele, Chairman


Republican National Committee


310 First Street, Southeast


Washington, DC 20003


 


Mr. Steele,


 


In response to your urgent ''roll call'' of Americans... (and solicitation of a donation) I can assure you that I certainly am fed up with the Obama administration and congressional Democrats.  But I must inform you that I am equally fed up with the Republican party as well.  What’s more, I feel great sense of betrayal because I expect Democrats to act exactly as they have, but not Republicans.


 


TARP and other bailouts were not a good idea just because they were begun by Bush.  The further bailouts, stimulus, deficit increase, nationalization of American business, universal healthcare and other travesties against capitalism are not bad ideas simply because Obama owns them.  These are wrong, no matter who is in charge.  Bush threw the ball, Obama knocked it over the fence.  Way to go.


 


Only in Washington, DC does it make sense to say, ''I’ve abandoned free-market principles to save the free-market system.''   What makes our free market possible is the freedom of  losers to fail and winners to succeed.  No one and nothing is too big to fail. It’s how we weed out bad ideas.  You might remember this next time you are tempted to run a RINO for president.


 


The Republican party allowed Obama to be elected by fielding such a poor presidential candidate.  McCain:  Heck of a guy, admirable character, but not a true Republican.  By the time I voted in my state Ohio primary, any other appealing Republican candidate had dropped out.  In November I was forced simply to vote the NObama ticket.  I did not want a candidate who would ''reach across the aisle.''  I wanted a conservative Republican candidate.  Had it not been for Sarah Palin, I might as well have stayed home. 


 


I will not be attending the Republican ''listening tour.''  Listen to this:  The dismantling of the American way of life is on Republican as well as Democrat heads.  I now consider myself an Independent.  In 2012, if the Republican party manages to run a strong conservative candidate I will vote for that candidate. If the party persists in ''moving to the center'' and watering down its traditionally conservative principles, it will find itself in this identical situation.


 


Thanks for asking,  I feel much better now.


Err, you mean the link to Commonwealth Fund report
"It has to do with Medicaid." Yes, Medicaid is mentioned in the report, but ONLY within the context of expanded eligibility (by various states) based on INCOME, not on age. Furthermore, the feds are actually trying to limit, as in RESTRICT, this type of expanded Medicaid coverage.

It also talks about the interplay between Medicaid and private companies and how it is picking up some but not all of the fallout from private insurance eligibility restrictions. The report goes on to say that Medicaid is functioning AS IT WAS INTENDED, thus lending credence to the assertion in the OP that the SCHIPS program being administered like Medicare and Medicaid is a good thing.

Here's a suggestion. Do a find/search on Medicaid within the article and then try to identify any single statement that indicates Meicaid AGE guidelines have been revised upward. Certainly, you will find nothing anywhere to support the hogwash in the other post that suggests it is now or ever going to be 30.

Here's a few more clues for you. In the excerpt from the other post, terms and phrases such as "nothing to do with federal mandate, their parents' INSURANCE POLICIES and allow INSURERS to set their own dependent age limits" can in no way be interpreted as referring to state funded insurance programs.

Bottom line, once again, is that the aim of health care reform is to INSURE folks, not EXCLUDE them. Raising age (and other) restrictions by private insurance companies is one of many creative ways of keeping folks OFF of state and federally funded health insurance programs.
Why shouldnt gov fund religious programs?
I should be able to get some funding just like everyone else if I have a religious program.  I mean we fund abortion here in the US and abroad.  We fund wars, we fund all kinds of CRAP so why NOT religion?  Isnt it supposed to be equal and fair?  Why is it the religious people of this world, namely the Christians get the short end of the stick? 
I guess because they/we fund it maybe? Not a birthday gift. nm
X
The congress which raided the SS fund was republican at the time
and at the rate the republicans are carrying the country, in ten years, it will resemble Argentina (who also ended up in the same place, as a debtor nation).

Israel has the republican party as it stands in his back pocket as does corportate america. The republican party isn't conservative anymore. It is a giant siphon of American assets into the pockets of the rich, at the expense of the taxpayer. Anyone can see this but the sheople who voted these clowns into office and didn't benefit from the tax cuts ::rolls eyes::.
Obama also voted not to fund troops in combat....
It should be apparent to all of us by now that whatever you can find on one politician you can find on another... :)

http://www.johnmccain.com/informing/news/PressReleases/454ad652-5f6d-4cb1-808d-d52a8aa6f4ac.htm
the drug companies that fund the research for new drugs
really don't have all that much time to make money on the drugs before generics are allowed. Do you think generic companies are going to start contributing to research? For all those people who gripe about the drug companies, I would like to see the day come when the drug companies aren't willing to spend another dime on the research. The gov can pay for all the research then. They still pay for the meds, and it might be more, factoring in the waste for the gov being involved.
Well surely Obama doesn't fund all sources
a name please of a source you would consider credible.
And govt shouldn't fund religious programs....
schools, facilities, etc.
why are we in iraq?
I think the reasons we are in Iraq were said best at the Downing Street Memo hearing held by Representative Conyers and attended by Joe Wilson, Cindy Sheehan (mother of a son killed in Iraq), Ray McGovern, an ex-CIA analyst and Mr. Bonifaz, attorney.  We are there because of *OIL* - Oil, Israel and Location.  We need to get out of Iraq NOW.  Bush lied to America and the world.  There were no WMD, which most of us enlightened people knew, there was no threat from a country broken down by sanctions we placed on it after the Gulf War.  Bush needs to be impeached..Just my 2 cents, folks..
why are we in Iraq?
BUSH---Bring our boys back home...they don't need to be there to get killed...and every day there are more and
more....lucky Bush had daughters...or maybe he would ha ve the boys home by now..but he got away doing things so, his daughters if they were sons...would too....
LETS START A WAR WITH BUSH
BRING OUR BOYS BACK HOME!!!!
Iraq
Gee, wasnt one of the many reasons Bush and Blair told America and England for invading a soverign country was that it would make us safer??  Doesnt the warmonger in the White House still say that??  Lying once again..It has made us less safe and has caused a few terrorists to grow to thousands around the world that hate us totally and want to destroy us.  Thanks, Bush, you screwed up again. 
Why we're really in Iraq.



Two years before 9/11, candidate Bush was already talking privately about attacking Iraq, according to his former ghost writer


Houston: Two years before the September 11 attacks, presidential candidate George W. Bush was already talking privately about the political benefits of attacking Iraq, according to his former ghost writer, who held many conversations with then-Texas Governor Bush in preparation for a planned autobiography.


“He was thinking about invading Iraq in 1999,” said author and journalist Mickey Herskowitz. “It was on his mind. He said to me: ‘One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief.’ And he said, ‘My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it.’ He said, ‘If I have a chance to invade….if I had that much capital, I’m not going to waste it. I’m going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I’m going to have a successful presidency.”


Herskowitz said that Bush expressed frustration at a lifetime as an underachiever in the shadow of an accomplished father. In aggressive military action, he saw the opportunity to emerge from his father’s shadow. The moment, Herskowitz said, came in the wake of the September 11 attacks. “Suddenly, he’s at 91 percent in the polls, and he’d barely crawled out of the bunker.”


That President Bush and his advisers had Iraq on their minds long before weapons inspectors had finished their work – and long before alleged Iraqi ties with terrorists became a central rationale for war – has been raised elsewhere, including in a book based on recollections of former Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill. However, Herskowitz was in a unique position to hear Bush’s unguarded and unfiltered views on Iraq, war and other matters – well before he became president.


In 1999, Herskowitz struck a deal with the campaign of George W. Bush about a ghost-written autobiography, which was ultimately titled A Charge to Keep : My Journey to the White House, and he and Bush signed a contract in which the two would split the proceeds. The publisher was William Morrow. Herskowitz was given unimpeded access to Bush, and the two met approximately 20 times so Bush could share his thoughts. Herskowitz began working on the book in May, 1999, and says that within two months he had completed and submitted some 10 chapters, with a remaining 4-6 chapters still on his computer. Herskowitz was replaced as Bush’s ghostwriter after Bush’s handlers concluded that the candidate’s views and life experiences were not being cast in a sufficiently positive light.


According to Herskowitz, who has authored more than 30 books, many of them jointly written autobiographies of famous Americans in politics, sports and media (including that of Reagan adviser Michael Deaver), Bush and his advisers were sold on the idea that it was difficult for a president to accomplish an electoral agenda without the record-high approval numbers that accompany successful if modest wars.


The revelations on Bush’s attitude toward Iraq emerged recently during two taped interviews of Herskowitz, which included a discussion of a variety of matters, including his continued closeness with the Bush family, indicated by his subsequent selection to pen an authorized biography of Bush’s grandfather, written and published last year with the assistance and blessing of the Bush family.


Herskowitz also revealed the following:


-In 2003, Bush’s father indicated to him that he disagreed with his son’s invasion of Iraq.


-Bush admitted that he failed to fulfill his Vietnam-era domestic National Guard service obligation, but claimed that he had been “excused.”


-Bush revealed that after he left his Texas National Guard unit in 1972 under murky circumstances, he never piloted a plane again. That casts doubt on the carefully-choreographed moment of Bush emerging in pilot’s garb from a jet on the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln in 2003 to celebrate “Mission Accomplished” in Iraq. The image, instantly telegraphed around the globe, and subsequent hazy White House statements about his capacity in the cockpit, created the impression that a heroic Bush had played a role in landing the craft.


-Bush described his own business ventures as “floundering” before campaign officials insisted on recasting them in a positive light.


Throughout the interviews for this article and in subsequent conversations, Herskowitz indicated he was conflicted over revealing information provided by a family with which he has longtime connections, and by how his candor could comport with the undefined operating principles of the as-told-to genre. Well after the interviews—in which he expressed consternation that Bush’s true views, experience and basic essence had eluded the American people —Herskowitz communicated growing concern about the consequences for himself of the publication of his remarks, and said that he had been under the impression he would not be quoted by name. However, when conversations began, it was made clear to him that the material was intended for publication and attribution. A tape recorder was present and visible at all times.


Several people who know Herskowitz well addressed his character and the veracity of his recollections. “I don’t know anybody that’s ever said a bad word about Mickey,” said Barry Silverman, a well-known Houston executive and civic figure who worked with him on another book project. An informal survey of Texas journalists turned up uniform confidence that Herskowitz’s account as contained in this article could be considered accurate.


One noted Texas journalist who spoke with Herskowitz about the book in 1999 recalls how the author mentioned to him at the time that Bush had revealed things the campaign found embarrassing and did not want in print. He requested anonymity because of the political climate in the state. “I can’t go near this,” he said.


According to Herskowitz, George W. Bush’s beliefs on Iraq were based in part on a notion dating back to the Reagan White House – ascribed in part to now-vice president Dick Cheney, Chairman of the House Republican Policy Committee under Reagan. “Start a small war. Pick a country where there is justification you can jump on, go ahead and invade.”


Bush’s circle of pre-election advisers had a fixation on the political capital that British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher collected from the Falklands War. Said Herskowitz: “They were just absolutely blown away, just enthralled by the scenes of the troops coming back, of the boats, people throwing flowers at [Thatcher] and her getting these standing ovations in Parliament and making these magnificent speeches.”


Republicans, Herskowitz said, felt that Jimmy Carter’s political downfall could be attributed largely to his failure to wage a war. He noted that President Reagan and President Bush’s father himself had (besides the narrowly-focused Gulf War I) successfully waged limited wars against tiny opponents – Grenada and Panama – and gained politically. But there were successful small wars, and then there were quagmires, and apparently George H.W. Bush and his son did not see eye to eye.


“I know [Bush senior] would not admit this now, but he was opposed to it. I asked him if he had talked to W about invading Iraq. “He said, ‘No I haven’t, and I won’t, but Brent [Scowcroft] has.’ Brent would not have talked to him without the old man’s okaying it.” Scowcroft, national security adviser in the elder Bush’s administration, penned a highly publicized warning to George W. Bush about the perils of an invasion.


Herskowitz’s revelations are not the sole indicator of Bush’s pre-election thinking on Iraq. In December 1999, some six months after his talks with Herskowitz, Bush surprised veteran political chroniclers, including the Boston Globe’s David Nyhan, with his blunt pronouncements about Saddam at a six-way New Hampshire primary event that got little notice: “It was a gaffe-free evening for the rookie front-runner, till he was asked about Saddam’s weapons stash,” wrote Nyhan. ‘I’d take ‘em out,’ [Bush] grinned cavalierly, ‘take out the weapons of mass destruction…I’m surprised he’s still there,” said Bush of the despot who remains in power after losing the Gulf War to Bush Jr.’s father…It remains to be seen if that offhand declaration of war was just Texas talk, a sort of locker room braggadocio, or whether it was Bush’s first big clinker. ”


The notion that President Bush held unrealistic or naïve views about the consequences of war was further advanced recently by a Bush supporter, the evangelist Pat Robertson, who revealed that Bush had told him the Iraq invasion would yield no casualties. In addition, in recent days, high-ranking US military officials have complained that the White House did not provide them with adequate resources for the task at hand.


Herskowitz considers himself a friend of the Bush family, and has been a guest at the family vacation home in Kennebunkport. In the late 1960s, Herskowitz, a longtime Houston Chronicle sports columnist designated President Bush’s father, then-Congressman George HW Bush, to replace him as a guest columnist, and the two have remained close since then. (Herskowitz was suspended briefly in April without pay for reusing material from one of his own columns, about legendary UCLA basketball coach John Wooden.)


In 1999, when Herskowitz turned in his chapters for Charge to Keep, Bush’s staff expressed displeasure —often over Herskowitz’s use of language provided by Bush himself. In a chapter on the oil business, Herskowitz included Bush’s own words to describe the Texan’s unprofitable business ventures, writing: “the companies were floundering”. “I got a call from one of the campaign lawyers, he was kind of angry, and he said, ‘You’ve got some wrong information.’ I didn’t bother to say, ‘Well you know where it came from.’ [The lawyer] said, ‘We do not consider that the governor struggled or floundered in the oil business. We consider him a successful oilman who started up at least two new businesses.’ ”


In the end, campaign officials decided not to go with Herskowitz’s account, and, moreover, demanded everything back. “The lawyer called me and said, ‘Delete it. Shred it. Just do it.’ ”


“They took it and [communications director] Karen [Hughes] rewrote it,” he said. A campaign official arrived at his home at seven a.m. on a Monday morning and took his notes and computer files. However, Herskowitz, who is known for his memory of anecdotes from his long history in journalism and book publishing, says he is confident about his recollections.


According to Herskowitz, Bush was reluctant to discuss his time in the Texas Air National Guard – and inconsistent when he did so. Bush, he said, provided conflicting explanations of how he came to bypass a waiting list and obtain a coveted Guard slot as a domestic alternative to being sent to Vietnam. Herskowitz also said that Bush told him that after transferring from his Texas Guard unit two-thirds through his six-year military obligation to work on an Alabama political campaign, he did not attend any Alabama National Guard drills at all, because he was “excused.” This directly contradicts his public statements that he participated in obligatory training with the Alabama National Guard. Bush’s claim to have fulfilled his military duty has been subject to intense scrutiny; he has insisted in the past that he did show up for monthly drills in Alabama – though commanding officers say they never saw him, and no Guardsmen have come forward to accept substantial “rewards” for anyone who can claim to have seen Bush on base.


Herskowitz said he asked Bush if he ever flew a plane again after leaving the Texas Air National Guard in 1972 – which was two years prior to his contractual obligation to fly jets was due to expire. He said Bush told him he never flew any plane – military or civilian – again. That would contradict published accounts in which Bush talks about his days in 1973 working with inner-city children, when he claimed to have taken some of the children up in a plane.


In 2002, three years after he had been pulled off the George W. Bush biography, Herskowitz was asked by Bush’s father to write a book about the current president’s grandfather, Prescott Bush, after getting a message that the senior Bush wanted to see him. “Former President Bush just handed it to me. We were sitting there one day, and I was visiting him there in his office…He said, ‘I wish somebody would do a book about my dad.’ ”


“He said to me, ‘I know this has been a disappointing time for you, but it’s amazing how many times something good will come out of it.’ I passed it on to my agent, he jumped all over it. I asked [Bush senior], ‘Would you support it and would you give me access to the rest of family?’ He said yes.”


That book, Duty, Honor, Country: The Life and Legacy of Prescott Bush, was published in 2003 by Routledge. If anything, the book has been criticized for its over-reliance on the Bush family’s perspective and rosy interpretation of events. Herskowitz himself is considered the ultimate “as-told-to” author, lending credibility to his account of what George W. Bush told him. Herskowitz’s other books run the gamut of public figures, and include the memoirs of Reagan aide Deaver, former Texas Governor and Nixon Treasury Secretary John Connally, newsman Dan Rather, astronaut Walter Cunningham, and baseball greats Mickey Mantle and Nolan Ryan.


After Herskowitz was pulled from the Bush book project, the biographer learned that a scenario was being prepared to explain his departure. “I got a phone call from someone in the Bush campaign, confidentially, saying ‘Watch your back.’ ”


Reporters covering Bush say that when they inquired as to why Herskowitz was no longer on the project, Hughes intimated that Herskowitz had personal habits that interfered with his writing – a claim Herskowitz said is unfounded. Later, the campaign put out the word that Herskowitz had been removed for missing a deadline. Hughes subsequently finished the book herself – it received largely critical reviews for its self-serving qualities and lack of spontaneity or introspection.


So, said Herskowitz, the best material was left on the cutting room floor, including Bush’s true feelings.


“He told me that as a leader, you can never admit to a mistake,” Herskowitz said. “That was one of the keys to being a leader.”


URL: http://www.gnn.tv/articles/article.php?id=761


Iraq.
I wonder if any conservatives have noticed that this adminstration is not allowing "live combat" on TV, like they did when President Bush, Sr. was president and we were whipping butt.  I received horrible, horrible pictures this week, how they have to dig big holes in the sand, to protect their eyes from sand damage, not to mention being shot upon at the same time.  How could anyone come on here and flame J. Carter, a man, not the smartest, but who has built thousands of homes for needy people AT HOME and not worried about foreign policy, which his failed, but my goodness, the current president is doing no better. I have actual war pictures from my nephew, infantry in Iraq, this adminstration does not want the American people to know how brutal this war is - if they did CNN would be permitted to be in there with their cameras, and yet right wingers wave the flag and don't have a clue of the bloodshed - until it is their own and it WILL come to that.  I guarantee you, there will be a drastic change of heart when one of their's dies over there.
Iraq war
I agree, no war. But, look, has anyone really done research on the Muslims and their plan for all of us infidels? Even if we hadn't gone to war, they would still be doing their terrorist thing. Yes, there are some Muslims who are peaceful, but Muhammad was a piece of crap and so are most of the men who belong to that, ah, religion? Whatever, don't think that by not reacting they won't terrorize. That's the mistake some European countries are making. I've lived in Europe and I know what the Muslims are like firsthand. Having said that, we have plenty of our own sh*t right here in the U.S. I still kiss the ground when I return home from other countries! Believe this, there will be no more peace, only government take-over in the name of peace, and we, the people, will lose our freedom.
Iraq better off, LOL
and..we are any better in Iraq now?  We are allowing them to vote for a constitution which is controlled by religious fanatics, aligned with Iran, which takes away rights women had under Saddam..We have allowed the Taliban to come back into Afghanistan and they are now running for office..the opium trade in Afghanistan is thriving, Osama, our **real** enemy is still on the loose..sooo....what did we accomplish?  Nothing.  At least under Saddam, they had security, electricity, jobs, clean bacteria free water, knowing what the future held..the Iraqis have nothing now because of the USA..We are gonna invade and bring democracy to a foreign country..How naive..How stupid..You do not bring democracy into a country by invading it and forcing your beliefs upon it..OMG, idiotic and we are paying a severe price for it now..Frankly, I think the only ones who should be paying a price for this debacle are Bush and his administration..they ought to be tried as war criminals and tarred and feathered..then given to the relatives who lost loved ones in this immoral war and let them do what they want..
Iraq....
was stable?  I guess as long as you're not the one having your tongue ripped out, or you're not a 9-year-old boy languishing in a filthy prison, I guess it was stable.  Okay.  Saddam was  a known keg  of dynamite.   If you don't think he wouldn't  have liked to see us dead as much as any other terrorist would, you're delusional.  He did  pay money to every family who sent forth a suicide bomber in Israel.   Sounds like a terrorist to me.  Again, without using those wonderful 20/20 hindsight glasses, would you be willing to take a chance in a post 9/11 world, given the intelligence available AT THE TIME?  I wouldn't.  And, the administration never ever said that he was linked to 9/11.   That's something a huge chunk of the ingnorant in this country  think, but never heard. 
Iraq

Germany didn't attack us in World War II, either; Japan did.  Who did we go after first, though?  The evil was the same and had to be dealt with, regardless of which country attacked us.  It really boggles my mind as to why you think the people in Iraq are less deserving of being freed from the grips of a brutal tyrant than the people in Bosnia and Yugoslavia?  If you think Saddam and his epitomy-of-evil sons didn't commit atrocities, what news outlets have you been getting your information from?  You would have to be living in la-la land not to know these facts.  Our troops have uncovered thousands of dead bodies buried in mass graves since going to Iraq, victims of Saddam's cruel and outright savage regime.  As far as President Clinton and Bosnia, I supported his going to free those oppressed people from that brutal dictator they were under.  I'm a humanitarian and a patriot and don't believe in playing politics during war like you democrats do.  By the way, Clinton promised when he sent our troops to Bosnia that they would all be home by Christmas of that year, but guess what?  We still have troops there and he had several years to bring them back but didn't.  As far as our troops being deployed all over the world under Clinton, he had our troops spread so thin, and he did this himself and did not inherit the problem, that we didn't even have enough troops here at home to support us if we were attacked.  This is per the military themselves, not my report.


 The problem with you democrats is that you are being fed talking points from a group of news media outlets so biased they are about to fall over the cliff from leaning left.  You are being lied to by them, and I admonish you to get the facts, not their talking points.  Don't let them do your thinking for you.  Research and get the truth for yourself.  The media outlets you listen to have an agenda - to  make this country lose this war against terror, but mainly to make this country into a socialist nation.  This has been their agenda for years and years and you are being dumbed-down by them because of your gullibility.  For the sake of our children and grandchildren, wake up!!


By the way, there were over 100,000 terrorists prior to our going to war against them, so 17,000 is quite an achievement I would say. Do you want them living in your neighborhood, having access to the schools, shopping malls, and supermarkets in your neighborhood, because that's what you'll have if we don't win this war.


Iraq. sm
Now that the islamofascists see Iraq as their cause celebre' we can ill afford to lose there.  This is one fight we absolutely must win.  Our denizens of hatred have been here since the 60s. Their agenda has only gotten stronger and they keep it close to their hearts. Visit the campus of nearly every institution of higher learning and you will find them.  They are the ones who after 9/11 made statements, such as Ward Churchill, that the WTC was full of little Eichmanns' who deserved their death.  Or as Chomsky has said, with glee, that we are finally getting what we had coming. They will settle for no less than hopefully dozens of mushroom clouds in American cities. They have their dancing shoes on. 
Bad in Iraq...
The President has never said it was not bad in Iraq. He says it constantly. What he did say was that we had to stay the course, and by that he meant not abandon Iraq until they could handle their own security. He did not mean that nothing should change. He admits that things could have been done better....of course he does. Things could have been done better in every conflict this country has been involved in. Hindsight is always 20/20. Military advisors of both political bent had input into going into Iraq and the result of such is as much their responsibility as anyone's. And need I remind you that the President alone can't send soldiers to war...Congress has to do that, and Congress did, with the same information the President had, no matter how much the left wants to deny that. I still believe and will always believe that us being in Iraq is what has kept Al Qaeda from making worse and bigger attacks on our own soil. They are afraid that this country under this President's leadership might come into other Arab countries searching for them if they did, and what they DO NOT want is American boots on more of their soil. I believe strongly that we did the right thing. What I think that is happening now is that perhaps the President is losing some of his resolve because of political pressure. I hope that is not the case. We would be much better served if we tried to come up with a consensus as an answer....if the Democrats really cared about fixing the situation they would have put forth ideas in the years before the election other than cut and run. But that would not be politically expedient...it was to their political benefit for the situation to remain bad. And THAT, my friends, is SAD. And yes, I recognize that it has happened on both sides, and the fact that it has become more important to elect a party than to take care of this country as a whole is also SAD. That is what happens when moral decline permeates a society, when it becomes about me, me, me, or little groups of us, us, us, and power; and MUCH LESS to do with the wellbeing of the country as a whole. And that is exactly what has happened. ALL groups hold some responsibility. It used to be God, Family, Country. Now God is out, Family is out, and Country is on the way out. Heartbreaking.
We went to war with Iraq because the...
stated policy of this country was that if attacked we would go after the terrorists and the states who supported them. And Saddam was linked to 9-11, though the liberal media did manage to pretty much squash that by not reporting extensively on it. See below.

Saddam supported terrorists monetarily, he gave them refuge. He paid bounties to suicide bombers' families. Saddam provided diplomatic help to Islamic extremists, one being Abu Abbas, former secretary general of the Palestine Liberation Front. He masterminded the October 7-9, 1985 hijacking of an Italian cruise ship whose name, sadly, is now synonymous with terrorism. The Achille Lauro was on a voyage across the Mediterranean when four Palestinian terrorists seized it on the high seas. They held some 400 passengers hostage for 44 hours. At one point, they segregated the Jewish passengers on board. One of them was a 69-year-old New York retiree named Leon Klinghoffer. He happened to be confined to a wheelchair. Without mercy, Abu Abbas’ men shot Klinghoffer, then rolled him, wheelchair and all, into the Mediterranean. The hijackers surrendered to Egyptian authorities in exchange for safe passage to Tunisia. Abu Abbas then joined them on a flight to freedom aboard an Egypt Air jet. However, four U.S. fighter planes forced the airliner to land at a NATO base in Sicily. Italian officials took the hijackers into custody. But Abbas possessed the ultimate get-out-of-jail card: An Iraqi diplomatic passport.

How do we know this?


The source for this information is not Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh. It is none other than Bettino Craxi. At that time, he was Italy’s prime minister. As Craxi explained in an October 14, 1985 UPI story: “Abu Abbas was the holder of an Iraqi diplomatic passport…The plane was on an official mission, considered covered by diplomatic immunity and extra-territorial status in the air and on the ground.” Seeing that this terrorist traveled as a credentialed Iraqi diplomat, the Italian authorities let Abbas flee to Yugoslavia. After political parties furiously withdrew from Craxi’s coalition, the Italian government collapsed. After escaping Italian police in October 1985 following the Achille Lauro hijacking (thanks to his Iraqi diplomatic passport), Abu Abbas finally ended up in Baghdad in 1994, where he lived comfortably as one of Saddam Hussein’s guests. U.S. soldiers caught Abbas in Iraq in April 2003.

Another is Hisham al Hussein, the former second secretary at Iraq’s embassy in Manila. The Philippine government expelled him on February 13, 2003, just five weeks before the start of Operation Iraqi Freedom. Cell phone records indicate he had spoken with Abu Madja and Hamsiraji Sali, two leaders of Abu Sayyaf, al-Qaeda’s de facto franchise for the Philippines. The timing was particularly suspicious, as he had been in contact with the Abu Sayyaf terrorists just before and after they conducted an attack in Zamboanga City.
Abu Sayyaf’s nail-filled bomb exploded on October 2, 2002, injuring 23 individuals and killing two Filipinos and one American. That American was U.S. Special Forces Sergeant First Class Mark Wayne Jackson, age 40. As Dan Murphy wrote in the February 26, 2003 Christian Science Monitor, those tell-tale cell phone records bolster the televised claim by Hamsiraji Sali, a top Abu Sayyaf terrorist, that the Iraqi diplomat had offered this group of Islamo-fascists Baghdad’s help with joint missions.

Beyond cash and diplomatic help, Saddam Hussein was the Conrad Hilton of the terrorist world. He provided a place for terrorists to kick back, relax, and reflect after killing people for a living.

Abu Nidal lived comfortably in Iraq between 1999 and August 2002. As the Associated Press reported on August 21, 2002, Nidal’s Beirut office said he entered Iraq “with the full knowledge and preparations of the Iraqi authorities.” Prior to his relocation, he ran the eponymous Abu Nidal Organization — a Palestinian terror network behind attacks in 20 countries, at least 407 confirmed murders, and some 788 other terror-related injuries. Among other savage acts, Nidal’s group used guns and grenades to attack a ticket counter at Rome’s Leonardo da Vinci airport on December 27, 1985. Another cell in Austria simultaneously assaulted Vienna’s airport, killing 19 people. Among the five Americans that Abu Nidal murdered that day was John Buonocore III, a 20-year-old Fairleigh Dickinson College student who had studied in Rome that fall semester. Buonocore was shot in the back while checking in for his flight home. He had hoped to return to Wilmington, Delaware to help his father celebrate his 50th birthday.
The New York Times reports that Abu Nidal's Fatah Revolutionary Council murdered the following 17 Americans, at a minimum:

Americans killed in the Abu Nidal Organization's December 27, 1985 attack on Rome's airport:

*John Buonocore III, 20, of Wilmington, Delaware

*Frederick Gage of Madison, Wisconsin

*Natasha Simpson, 11, of New York

*Don Maland of New Port Richey, Florida

*Elena Tomarello, 67, of Naples, Florida

The New York Times, December 29, 1985

American executed during ANO's 1986 hijacking of a Pan Am jet at Karachi, Pakistan's airport:

*Rajesh Kumar of Huntington Beach, California

The New York Times, September 7, 1986

Americans slaughtered in ANO's September 8, 1974 bombing of a TWA jet over the Ionian Sea en route from Israel to Greece, killing all 88 aboard:

*Eitan Bard of Tuckahoe, New York

*Seldon Bard of Tuckahoe, New York

*Ralph H. Bosh of Madison, Connecticut

*Jon L. Cheshire of Old Lyme, Connecticut

*Jeremiah Hadley of Poughkeepsie, New York

*Katherine Hadley Michel of Poughkeepsie, New York

*Frederick Hare of Bernardsville, New Jersey

*Margaret Hare of Bernardsville, New Jersey

*Don H. Holliday of Mahwah, New Jersey

*Dr. Frederick Stohlman of Newton, Massachusetts

*Mrs. Frederick Stohlman of Newton, Massachusetts

The New York Times, September 10, 1974

If there is any justice here, perhaps it is the fact that Abu Nidal died in August 2002. Saddam Hussein’s government claimed that he committed suicide by shooting himself in the head — four times.

So far, we have documented that Saddam Hussein harbored terrorists (many with al-Qaeda links) responsible for international mayhem and even the incidental deaths of Americans. But is there any evidence that Iraq sheltered those responsible for attacks on America?

Enter Abdul Rahman Yasin. This Indiana-born, Iraqi-reared terrorist remains wanted by the FBI for his role in the February 26, 1993 World Trade Center attack. President Bill Clinton's Justice Department indicted Yasin for mixing the chemicals in the bomb that exploded in the parking garage beneath the Twin Towers, killing six and injuring 1,042 people in New York. Soon after the smoke cleared, Yasin returned to Iraq. Coalition forces have discovered documents that show he enjoyed housing and a monthly government salary.
Former ABC News correspondent Sheila MacVicar looked for Yasin, and here is what she reported on July 27, 1994: “Last week, [television program] Day One confirmed [Yasin] is in Baghdad…Just a few days ago, he was seen at [his father’s] house by ABC News. Neighbors told us Yasin comes and goes freely.” Since Iraq was liberated, Yasin remains at large.


Medical Treatment for Terrorists

Saddam Hussein’s general store for terrorists included medical care, too.

Abu Musab al Zarqawi. After running an al-Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan, he found his way to Baathist Baghdad, where he reportedly checked into Olympic Hospital, an elite facility run by the late Uday Hussein, son of the captured tyrant. Zarqawi is believed to have received medical treatment for a leg injury sustained while dodging American GIs who toppled the Taliban. He convalesced in Baghdad for some two months. Once he was back on his foot, Zarqawi then opened an Ansar al-Islam terrorist training camp in northern Iraq. Zarqawi is thought to be behind the October 28, 2002 assassination of Lawrence Foley. Foley was a U.S. diplomat in Amman, Jordan who worked on international development projects. For that transgression, he was gunned down and killed in his driveway at home.

According to dissidents, journalists who have visited, and even United Nations weapons inspectors, Saddam Hussein appears to have offered training to terrorists, in addition to funding, diplomatic help, safe haven and medical care.

The Associated Press reports that Coalition forces shut down at least three terrorist training camps in Iraq. The most notorious of these was the base at Salman Pak, about 15 miles southeast of Baghdad. Before the war, numerous Iraqi defectors said the camp featured a passenger jet on which terrorists sharpened their air piracy skills. This satellite photo shows an urban assault training site, a three-car train for railway-attack instruction, and a commercial airliner sitting all by itself in the middle of the desert.

Sabah Khodada, a former Iraqi army captain who once worked at Salman Pak. On October 14, 2001, Khodada granted an interview to PBS television program “Frontline,” stating, “This camp is specialized in exporting terrorism to the whole world.”

He added: “Training includes hijacking and kidnapping of airplanes, trains, public buses, and planting explosives in cities ... how to prepare for suicidal operations.”

He continued: “We saw people getting trained to hijack airplanes...They are even trained how to use utensils for food, like forks and knives provided in the plane.”

Does that sound familiar?

A map of the camp that Khodada drew from memory for “Frontline” closely matches satellite photos of Salman Pak, further bolstering his credibility.

General Vincent Brooks, who briefed reporters throughout the initial phases of Operation Iraqi Freedom, had his own observations about Saddam Hussein's terrorist pedagogy. Speaking at an April 6, 2003 press conference, General Brooks said: “The nature of the work being done by some of those people that we captured, their inferences to the type of training that they received, all of these things give us the impression that there was terrorist training that was conducted at Salman Pak.”

An al-Qaeda Link?

So does all of this, or anything else, suggest a tie between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda? Some evidence is interesting but far from solid, such as this image that appeared on the front page of the March 27, 2003 New York Post showing U.S. troops at an Iraqi military base in Nasariyah. They encountered a mural that seems to celebrate the destruction of the Twin Towers.

Al-Qaeda link? Recall that Abdul Rahman Yasin, one of the al-Qaeda bombers who hit the World Trade Center in 1993, fled to Iraq after that attack and lived there freely, reportedly with a government salary. That’s one clear link to al-Qaeda.


Then there is the interesting case of Ahmad Hikmat Shakir — an Iraqi VIP facilitator who worked at the international airport in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Citing a foreign government service, page 340 of the Senate Intelligence Committee's report on pre-Iraq-War intelligence indicates that, Shakir claimed he got this job through Ra'ad al-Mudaris, an Iraqi Embassy employee in Malaysia. On January 5, 2000, Shakir greeted Khalid al Midhar and Nawaz al Hamzi at Kuala Lampur’s airport. He then escorted them to a local hotel where these September 11 hijackers met with 9/11 conspirators Ramzi bin al Shibh and Tawfiz al Atash. Five days later, according to The Weekly Standard’s Stephen Hayes, Shakir disappeared.
Khalid al Midhar and Nawaz al Hamzi subsequently spent the morning of September 11, 2001 flying American Airlines Flight 77 into the Pentagon, killing 184 people.

Shakir, the Iraqi airport greeter, was arrested in Qatar on September 17, 2001. On his person and in his apartment, authorities discovered documents connecting him to the 1993 WTC bomb plot and “Operation Bojinka,” al-Qaeda’s 1995 plan to blow up 12 jets simultaneously over the Pacific. Interestingly enough, as a May 27, 2004 Wall Street Journal editorial reported, Ahmed Hikmat Shakir's name appears on three different rosters of the late Uday Hussein's prestigious paramilitary group, the Saddam Fedayeen. A government source told the Journal that the papers identify Shakir as a lieutenant colonel in the Saddam Fedayeen.

Ahmad Khalil Ibrahim Samir al-Ani was Consul and Second Secretary at Iraq's Czech embassy between March 1999 and April 22, 2001. He long has been suspected of meeting with September 11 ringleader Mohamed Atta, most likely on April 8, 2001. Perhaps at other times, too. While skeptics dismiss this encounter, Czech intelligence found Al-Ani's appointment calendar in Iraq's Prague embassy, presumably after Saddam Hussein's defeat. Al-Ani's diary lists an April 8, 2001, meeting with Hamburg student. Maybe, in a massive coincidence, Al-Ani dined with a young scholar and chatted about Hegel and Nietzsche. Or perhaps Al-Ani saw a former student from Hamburg named Mohamed Atta to discuss more practical matters. The Czech government sticks to their contention that they did observe this Iraqi diplomat meeting with Mohamed Atta just five months before 9-11. As Czech U.N. Ambassador Hynek Kmonicek explained in a letter to Philadelphia attorney James Beasley, Jr.: “In this moment we can confirm, that during the next stay of Mr. Muhammad Atta in the Czech Republic, there was the contact with the official of the Iraqi intelligence, Mr. Al Ani, Ahmed Khalin Ibrahim Samir, who was on 22nd April 2001 expelled from the Czech Republic on the basis of activities which were not compatible with the diplomatic status.” Al-Ani was kicked out of Prague for casing the headquarters of Radio Free Europe and Radio Free Iraq, presumably because he wanted to blow them up. Of course, we know what happened next. Mohamed Atta and his henchmen went to airports on the East Coast. Within just three hours, he and the other pilots were in the air, about to reshape history. He and his evil colleagues turned this lovely vista of America's premier city into a towering inferno. They stole 2,749 innocent souls from the American family and decapitated the most powerful skyline man ever built.

Would This Hold Up in Court?

So would any or all of these ties between Iraq and terrorism or Iraq and al-Qaeda, in particular, withstand judicial scrutiny? That’s the question the families of two of those murdered at the World Trade Center wondered. The survivors of George Eric Smith, a 38-year-old senior business analyst with SunGard Asset Management Systems and the family of Timothy Soulas, age 35, a foreign currency specialist with Cantor Fitzgerald, sued Baathist Iraq and the Taliban for damages connected to the murders of their loved ones.

The federal trial judge was Harold Baer, Jr. a Clinton appointee. He took testimony from Clinton-designated CIA director James Woolsey and American Enterprise Institute scholar Laurie Mylroie, an adviser to the 1992 Clinton campaign. Baer learned about the Salman Pak camp, and considered other evidence of Saddam Hussein’s ties to al-Qaeda. To be fair, Baer did not hear Hussein’s side, as the Iraqi dictator did not respond to the suit. Nevertheless, Baer issued his decision.

As the May 8, 2003 New York Post and other news outlets reported, Baer ruled that Saddam Hussein’s government was complicit in the September 11 attacks and that the Baathist government owed the plaintiffs a judgment of $104 million.

As Baer stated on May 7, 2003:

“I conclude that plaintiffs have shown, albeit barely, ‘by evidence satisfactory to the court’ that Iraq provided material support to bin Laden and al Qaeda.” This lead to the following headline from the CBS: “Court Rules: Al Qaida, Iraq Linked.” Thus, there is abundant and undeniable evidence that Saddam Hussein provided money, diplomatic services, shelter, medical care, and training to terrorists of every stripe, including those complicit in the 1993 WTC bombing and — according to a Clinton-appointed federal judge — the September 11 attacks. The Iraqi dictator aided al-Qaeda and other global terrorists who murdered Americans, both at home and abroad.

Saddam Hussein was a living threat to American national security and the safety of the civilized world.































well then I should say pro war in Iraq...sm
Excuse me for pointing out that some folks are pro - war, and let me rephrase that to pro - military action in Iraq (which happened to lead to war).

This is an old pic I have seen floating around, and I don't agree with it. Just become some liberals writers have come out on record hating the troops, doesn't mean a hill of beans to me. Matter of fact, conservative media, writers, etc who repost it ad nauseum are just as guilty of bringing down the morale of the troops IMHO.
9-11 and Iraq---
are related. When I see video footage of Mohamed Atta meeting with one of Hussein's generals in the weeks before the attack, I don't write that off as a coincidence. WHen they found that 747 in the desert in Iraq, fully equipped, I don't think it was there a a tourist attraction. I rather think it was there to train hijackers. But if some want to ignore that, let them. It is definitely their right. I just don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that Hussein definitely had ties, and most likely money, in the 9-11 attack. And I also believe that Bush believed that, his advisors believed that, and that Congress believed that (liberals and conservatives alike) because they voted to go to war. Bush did not do it by himself. Of course, now that elections are upon us, the liberals are backpedaling 100 mph just like they did before...I voted for it before I voted against it...oh I just authorized use of force, didn't mean he had to USE it, yada yada. Please. I am so tired of the buck passing.

My head is not in the sand...my posts have demonstrated that. I believe the reason to go in was a good one. I believe the response of the Iraqi people was overestimated. If they had held onto the feeling they had when they were dancing in the streets and pulling down Hussein's likenesses all over Baghdad, it would have been a different story. If Iran had not bankrolled terrorists and intervened...if, if, if. No one knows how a war is going to go. However, one thing I do know...we have not been attacked on our own soil since we went into Iraq. I do NOT think that would have been the case had we not gone in. I still stand by the idea that it set Al Qaeda back on its heels. They did not expect that. They expected a Bill Clinton-like response in Somalia. We would just whimper and lick our wounds and wait for the next hit. Perhaps you do not worry about buses, trains, malls being bombed. Perhaps you think we are isolated and that will never happen here. Perhaps you still think Iraq has nothing to do with all that.

And no, love won't cure terrorism. Fighting will not cure it, but it will certainly deter it. Would you rather terrorists kill our soldiers in the streets of New York? Los Angeles? Dubuque Iowa? Tulsa Oklahoma? Would it be easier for you to take if they were dying here at the hands of terrorists? Would you be willing to fight then? Just wondering.
Maybe he should go to Iraq and

get hit with shoes, too. That might wake him up. LOL


I agree that he is arrogant and I've never seen this in my lifetime. It sets a new precedence [sic] (I'm tired) for this to happen every election. What I really like about him is the way he "wiggles" when he takes questions and you can see him just trying to find the correct words to fit the question without answering it.


Only time will tell...and for you bashers, this is my opinion. I am going to "sort of" give him a try but the first itsy bitsy mistake he makes, I'll be all over it with glee.


The war in Iraq has nothing to do with
The Bush administration's disastrous foreign policy and national security decisions post-9/11 lost us more allies and more consitutional rights than we gained in retribution.
Iraq...(sm)
Over the last 5 days over 160 people in Iraq have been killed in bombings.  However, in 5 days (by the 30th) US troops are supposed to pull back and stay on US bases unless asked for help by the Iraqi forces.  This is in accordance with the legislation/agreement that Bush signed before he left office.  I just hope the Iraqis can handle it and we can go forward with the plan to get out of there.
Iraq And Bush

I would like to call him "The Hitler of the 21st Century". Any comments?


Of interest, Iraq and oil

"The invasion of Iraq plays a crucial role in the agenda of the neoconservatives. Iraq has the second largest oil reserves in the world.  It could replace, in case of need, other producers such as Saudi Arabia, a fragile ally of the United States. The control of oil production and prices gives the United States potential power to pressure consumer states such as Russia, China, and many in Western Europe."


This is by the former French ambassador to Tunisia, now a journalist.  I guess I hadn't realized that Iraq was that oil-rich.


Iraq war..what did it accomplish
Im no Saddam lover, neither do I love Bush, however, seems to me under Saddam, the people had jobs, electricity to help with fans under the 125+ heat, food, a stable way of life, fresh water, security in the streets. It has been said under this new regimen women have less freedom and rights and under the regimen that will be voted in, they will have even less rights.  Who has killed more Saddam or Bush?  We should have NEVER invaded Iraq, I cannot believe the destruction and death we have caused over NOTHING.  Bush, Cheney, et al..need to be brought up on war criminal charges..As of today, only 38% of American people think the war in Iraq was justified..
Iraq Veterans Against The War

t r u t h o u t | Iraq Veterans Against the War
08.15.05
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Some of them are in Iraq. And some of them have died. sm

The issue of illegal immigration has been around way long than Bush's term in office.  While I do agree it is an even bigger problem with terrorism looming, this was something that should have been addressed long long ago.


Thought you said you were going to Iraq.


 


iraq is a quagmire
There is no doubt Saddam was a tyrant and feared but the people had jobs, electricity, clean water, security and safety in the streets..Sure you had to adhere to Saddam's ideas and frame work for his country but if you did adhere to that, you were living an okay life..We have not given them what we said we would..They now with this new constitution will be worse off than before we invaded..It is linked to Iran, takes away womens rights, alienates parts of their society..and right now there is no security in the streets, electricity for a few hours a week, water they bathe and drink is water in the streets..We should never have invaded a country to try to impose our beliefs on them..you cant do that..changes have to come from within a country..and then once we invaded, we had no real idea how to establish everything our govt said it was going to..Iraq is a lost cause..My heart breaks, an ancient country that we have destroyed..If we stay, more lives, both ours and theirs, will be lost, if we leave a civil war will erupt..there is just no good decision on Iraq.
Well gee, let's see...do we believe there were WMDs in Iraq?
Do we believe Bush was actually elected by the American public in 2000 or 2004? Do we believe terrorists lurk in every street here in America? Do we believe our troops have been given the best equipment with which to do their jobs? Do we believe Repubs want to fix Social Security? Do we believe Jeff Gannon was an accredited reporter?

Well, looks like you're going to have to find another explanation for yourself - we're obviously not believing everything we hear and apparently aren't half as gullible as you.
She said she had been to Iraq and would re-enlist if necessary
She never said she was going back right now.  There's the distortion
Invading Iraq
I think we should have never invaded Iraq in the first place.  Nevermind boots on the ground or shock and awe.
In Iraq, what you do is best kept secret...sm
This is rather lengthy, but paints a picture of Iraq from an Iraqi point of view. This just goes to show there are two sides to every story. Listening to the government and Fox News reporters you would think the good guy was in control in Iraq. According to this article, it would appear the insurgents hold a greater power over the people :(

World News

In Iraq, what you do is best kept secret
Sunnis pose as Shiites, rich people pose as poor, and no one says where they work. Telling the truth could bring a death sentence.

Sunday, July 02, 2006
By Megan K. Stack, Los Angeles Times

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- You don't want to draw attention, so you keep a battered car even if you can afford a fancier model. You don't wash it; better to let dust smear the windows. Night falls, curfew clamps down, and all those dirty old cars wend their way back to the homes of the capital. The eyes of neighbors slide after them.

Where are the drivers coming from? Some work for the government. Some fight with insurgents or death squads. Some are employed by Americans. No one asks, and no one tells; nobody knows who's who.

Bloodshed has turned Iraq into a country defined by disguise and bluff. Violence in the streets has begun to defy logic, and this is part of the fallout: A lively city where people used to butt gleefully into one another's business has degenerated into a labyrinth of disguises, a place where neighbors brush silently past one another like dancers in a macabre costume ball.

Everything is hidden among Iraqis; people are very suspicious of one another, said 66-year-old Hayawi Mahdi Abaasi, a successful lawyer who says he won't repair his tumble-down house or replace his 1982 Toyota for fear the wrong people would notice.

Why should I call the attention of terrorists to me? I try to be very common like everyone else, he said.

Rich people hide their jewelry and dig frayed clothes from the back of their closets to evade ransom-seeking kidnappers. Muslims claim to be Sunni or Shiite, depending on circumstance. Christians pose as Muslims. Lying about employment is de rigueur. Street police wrap their faces in masks so nobody will recognize them.

Everybody, it seems, is pretending to be somebody else, adopting a fake identity in the terrified hope of staying safe. Baghdad residents reason that no matter who you are, you're probably on somebody's hit list.

It's not a matter of lying or not lying, said Ali Abdullah. It's a matter of life or death.

Mr. Abdullah is a 31-year-old Sunni with dark skin, a strapping build and a bushy strip of mustache. Like most people in Baghdad, he is a man of secrets.

He was trained as an engineer in Saddam Hussein's Iraq but now works for an American nonprofit organization. His life has been threatened and his wife begs him to quit, but he says he can't -- the money is too good, and they have a 3-year-old son to think about.

Abdullah takes a taxi to work so his car won't be recognized. He uses different streets each time and changes his telephone number every few months.

He splurged on a $100 Swatch watch in neighboring Jordan, but now he's afraid to wear it in public. When people ask about his job, he lies and says he owns a computer shop.

Rule No. 1, he says: Never, under any circumstance, intimate to the neighbors on his predominantly Sunni street that he's sold out to the foreigners.

This is a killer, if my neighbors find out where I work, he said. This is the first thing that must be maintained, that my neighbors can't know what I do.

For Mr. Abdullah and his family, that has meant isolation. He shrinks from possible conversations, taking care not to linger in his doorway, make eye contact or trade small talk. When he caught sight of an old college friend across a crowded restaurant recently, he turned on his heels and rushed away to avoid conversation.

When they talk about the loss of intimacy, many Iraqis are mournful. Like members of most Middle Eastern societies, Iraqis have traditionally prized warmth and valued social interchange over what Westerners might regard as personal privacy. In the old Iraq, it was better to err on the side of nosiness than to appear cold or distant. It was perfectly normal to grill strangers on their marital status and the price of their possessions.

Little by little, that warmth has been bled away by war. Tension pulls on the city now. The atmosphere is thick with intrigue; it feels film noir, cloak-and-dagger. Except it is real -- and deadly.

Behavior has changed from rational behavior into instinctive, animalistic behavior, said Ehsan Mohammed Hassan, one of Iraq's leading sociologists and a professor at Baghdad University. The individual is not safe from the others. He has to hide. He doesn't want people to see him because he thinks the people are evil.

Amid the fear and loathing, a long-standing tribal tradition has disappeared. Etiquette used to require men to ask one another about their jobs; it was a way of showing concern for a friend's livelihood and to demonstrate willingness to help a man if he had fallen on hard times.

These days, though, to ask about jobs is impolite -- perhaps even dangerous. Instead, men find themselves throwing out other questions: How are you? What are you doing here?

A lot of people are killed for no reason. So what do you think they'll do if you work for the Americans? Mr. Abdullah asked. That's it. You're a traitor.

Working for the Iraqi government is no better -- everybody from university professors to national athletes to traffic police has been slaughtered by insurgents determined to bludgeon civic and social life to a standstill.

Iraq may be the only country in the world where militia members and anti-government insurgents walk the streets with bare faces while government workers, soldiers and cops cower behind masks.

I wear a mask because I don't want people to know I'm working for the police, a 34-year-old officer named Ahmed Ali said on a recent afternoon. It was lunch hour, and he and some of his colleagues had driven across Baghdad through the 110-degree heat to gobble down lamb kebabs in a neighborhood where they knew fewer people.

The men are stationed in the volatile Dora area, south of downtown and one of Baghdad's bloodiest sectarian battlefields. Clad in matching blue button-downs and navy trousers, their pistols holstered on their waists, they admitted they didn't dare bring their badges or uniforms home, not even to launder them.

They described slipping from the house in civilian clothes, creeping into the station and changing hurriedly into their uniforms.

Amid the fear, some profit. The document forger, for one.

Assad Kheldoun, a 29-year-old who operates out of the religiously mixed neighborhood of Shaab, grinds out fake identity cards for about $30 apiece. Exactly like the original, he boasts. But with one difference: A false name.

He's not selling to hustlers or mischief makers. Most of his clients are bus drivers, highway workers or car repairmen -- people forced to make their livings in Iraq's mean streets.

Last names are sectarian giveaways in Iraq, often deriving from tribes commonly known to be either Sunni or Shiite. Jaabour or Dulaimi, for instance, mean Sunni to Iraqis; so does the first name Omar.

People are getting killed because of their names, Kheldoun said. In the past few months, everybody is asking for a false identity card. It's a phenomenon now. The people are scared.
Then I'm glad you know Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11

and that they had no WMDs. 


She most be talking about the *other* Iraq...nm
(wink)
Bush: It's bad in Iraq....sm (no you think?)
Is democratic house and senate control what Bush needed to wise up about Iraq. I'm glad to see he's considering other options in Iraq, than policing the country indefinitely.
-----------------------------------------
(AP) President Bush, admitting that it's bad in Iraq, acknowledged Thursday that the United States needs a new approach in the unpopular war and promised to unveil details in an upcoming speech.

Bush said he was disappointed in the progress in Iraq, but continued to oppose direct U.S. talks with Iran or Syria and remained steadfastly committed to spreading democracy across the Middle East.

see link for full article
Same thing in Iraq...sm
So why in the world are we over there, and who are we helping???

Our next enemy???
Question regarding Iraq

Does anyone know exactly why the US went to war with Iraq?


The initial reason given was because Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, but there was no proof nor even evidence to suggest that. The UN would not authorize war with Iraq due to lack of any evidence of WMD.


When no WMD were found, it seemed as if the reasoning for the war in Iraq kept changing, from to fight the terrorists over there so we don't have to fight them over here to to plant the flag of democracy  Iraq was not involved in 9/11 and Iraq was not a country known to harbor terrorists under Hussain.  The bringing of democracy to Iraq part equally baffles me, because to the best of my knowledge Iraq never had a democracy nor desired/desires a democracy, as is the case with most countries in the Middle East.


Why exactly did the US go to war with Iraq? Does anyone know?


 


What are these people going to do for fun when the Iraq war is over....
I know. Sit on their porches and talk about how they were peace activists back in the day. Nevermind that soldiers throughout our history have died so that they have the right to be..I'm sorry...stupid, tactless, thoughtless, and mean. I guess my patience is worn out. I know it is their right, I just wish they used better judgment in the exercising. SIGH.