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Like I posted above, this is flat out false

Posted By: stuff he has told you......sm on 2008-10-11
In Reply to: I'm curious about this - ...

He knows there is no way in heck he can do this. Like I said above, a state representative told me they don't even get those plans like the Senators do and other high officials in the white house and you won't be getting the choice of one either. He said the cost to us would be trillions of dollars to pay for it, those with insurance they are now paying for won't even be allowed to get on board, which he said Obama knows means those on the welfare roll will be the ones he will be trying to get the better healthcare plan for. Well, Obama must be in lah lah land because how are they going to pay for this plan on welfare? They won't.....you and I will but WE won't be getting that plan.




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Flat Tax

AW  -"I think 10% represents different things to different people and that 10% to someone earning $10,000 a year might be more of an encumbrance than it would to someone earning $10,000,000 a year."


I personally think the flat tax is a good idea because if a person makes 10,000 dollars a year they pay 1000 dollars, but if a person makes 10,000,000 dollars they pay 1 million. That's fair game to me.  If you were able to benefit 10,000,000 dollars from American entrepreneurship then I think you should pay your 10% in taxes, give back.  9,000,000 after taxes is not too shabby and a lot more than what they would have under the current system.  The more you make the more you should pay anyway.


I couldn't really grip the fair tax concept.  Maybe you can explain it to me more???? (to American Woman).


And that would be a flat out lie....(sm)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#31094044


Care to try again?


 


Some people also believe the world is flat.

Saying it is so or isn't so doesn't make it the truth.


Yes, Saddam was a face of terror, one of many in the world...and not just in the middle east.  Try Africa. 


The posting you don't believe has facts as stated by multiple investigations sponsored by the U.S. as well as countless Middle East and terror experts.  They appear to be the truth.  That Saddam was able to keep the lid on violence in his country is backed up by the history of Iraq under his reign.  Very easy to check on.


thanks for the link...yep, she flat out lied
Lying seems to be the whole premise of the McCain campaign and she jumped right on board!!!
We would gladly pay a 10% flat tax, which is quite fair to everyone
and should be instituted. Still see no one has an answer as to why we should be penalized, and not the standard answer of just stop whining and pay your fair share. We do, and more. The taxes that O wants to raise will hurt small business owners also. Are you willing to have your taxes raised?
Attack story a flat-out lie. sm

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/17789356/detail.html


 


 


With the flat tax, people who make under 40,000 per year will not have to
pay taxes the way it reads now. They estimate that people making over 40,000 will be able to produce more tax income than the current income tax w/o including people who make under 40,000.

Q and A about the Flat Tax.
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/7146/flattax.html
Oh, before you call me a liar. I did respond to the flat tax,
but I brought my responses back here.
NEWS FLASH - Michelle wears flat shoes a lot!!
What in the world can we read into this?
Iraq reconstruction plans in 2003: A flat tax and a no smoking campaign. ((( s/m

Correction to This Article
A Sept. 17 article incorrectly said that one person who helped manage Iraq's budget had no background in accounting. The woman, described as the daughter of a prominent neoconservative commentator, has a background in accounting but lacked experience managing the finances of a large organization.
Ties to GOP Trumped Know-How Among Staff Sent to Rebuild Iraq
Early U.S. Missteps in the Green Zone

By Rajiv Chandrasekaran
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, September 17, 2006; A01


Adapted from "Imperial Life in the Emerald City," by Rajiv Chandrasekaran, copyright Knopf 2006


After the fall of Saddam Hussein's government in April 2003, the opportunity to participate in the U.S.-led effort to reconstruct Iraq attracted all manner of Americans -- restless professionals, Arabic-speaking academics, development specialists and war-zone adventurers. But before they could go to Baghdad, they had to get past Jim O'Beirne's office in the Pentagon.


To pass muster with O'Beirne, a political appointee who screens prospective political appointees for Defense Department posts, applicants didn't need to be experts in the Middle East or in post-conflict reconstruction. What seemed most important was loyalty to the Bush administration.


O'Beirne's staff posed blunt questions to some candidates about domestic politics: Did you vote for George W. Bush in 2000? Do you support the way the president is fighting the war on terror? Two people who sought jobs with the U.S. occupation authority said they were even asked their views on Roe v. Wade .


Many of those chosen by O'Beirne's office to work for the Coalition Provisional Authority, which ran Iraq's government from April 2003 to June 2004, lacked vital skills and experience. A 24-year-old who had never worked in finance -- but had applied for a White House job -- was sent to reopen Baghdad's stock exchange. The daughter of a prominent neoconservative commentator and a recent graduate from an evangelical university for home-schooled children were tapped to manage Iraq's $13 billion budget, even though they didn't have a background in accounting.


The decision to send the loyal and the willing instead of the best and the brightest is now regarded by many people involved in the 3 1/2 -year effort to stabilize and rebuild Iraq as one of the Bush administration's gravest errors. Many of those selected because of their political fidelity spent their time trying to impose a conservative agenda on the postwar occupation, which sidetracked more important reconstruction efforts and squandered goodwill among the Iraqi people, according to many people who participated in the reconstruction effort.


The CPA had the power to enact laws, print currency, collect taxes, deploy police and spend Iraq's oil revenue. It had more than 1,500 employees in Baghdad at its height, working under America's viceroy in Iraq, L. Paul Bremer, but never released a public roster of its entire staff.


Interviews with scores of former CPA personnel over the past two years depict an organization that was dominated -- and ultimately hobbled -- by administration ideologues.


"We didn't tap -- and it should have started from the White House on down -- just didn't tap the right people to do this job," said Frederick Smith, who served as the deputy director of the CPA's Washington office. "It was a tough, tough job. Instead we got people who went out there because of their political leanings."


Endowed with $18 billion in U.S. reconstruction funds and a comparatively quiescent environment in the immediate aftermath of the U.S. invasion, the CPA was the U.S. government's first and best hope to resuscitate Iraq -- to establish order, promote rebuilding and assemble a viable government, all of which, experts believe, would have constricted the insurgency and mitigated the chances of civil war. Many of the basic tasks Americans struggle to accomplish today in Iraq -- training the army, vetting the police, increasing electricity generation -- could have been performed far more effectively in 2003 by the CPA.


But many CPA staff members were more interested in other things: in instituting a flat tax, in selling off government assets, in ending food rations and otherwise fashioning a new nation that looked a lot like the United States. Many of them spent their days cloistered in the Green Zone, a walled-off enclave in central Baghdad with towering palms, posh villas, well-stocked bars and resort-size swimming pools.


By the time Bremer departed in June 2004, Iraq was in a precarious state. The Iraqi army, which had been dissolved and refashioned by the CPA, was one-third the size he had pledged it would be. Seventy percent of police officers had not been screened or trained. Electricity generation was far below what Bremer had promised to achieve. And Iraq's interim government had been selected not by elections but by Americans. Divisive issues were to be resolved later on, increasing the chances that tension over those matters would fuel civil strife.


To recruit the people he wanted, O'Beirne sought résumés from the offices of Republican congressmen, conservative think tanks and GOP activists. He discarded applications from those his staff deemed ideologically suspect, even if the applicants possessed Arabic language skills or postwar rebuilding experience.


Smith said O'Beirne once pointed to a young man's résumé and pronounced him "an ideal candidate." His chief qualification was that he had worked for the Republican Party in Florida during the presidential election recount in 2000.


O'Beirne, a former Army officer who is married to prominent conservative commentator Kate O'Beirne, did not respond to requests for comment.


He and his staff used an obscure provision in federal law to hire many CPA staffers as temporary political appointees, which exempted the interviewers from employment regulations that prohibit questions about personal political beliefs.


There were a few Democrats who wound up getting jobs with the CPA, but almost all of them were active-duty soldiers or State Department Foreign Service officers. Because they were career government employees, not temporary hires, O'Beirne's office could not query them directly about their political leanings.


One former CPA employee who had an office near O'Beirne's wrote an e-mail to a friend describing the recruitment process: "I watched résumés of immensely talented individuals who had sought out CPA to help the country thrown in the trash because their adherence to 'the President's vision for Iraq' (a frequently heard phrase at CPA) was 'uncertain.' I saw senior civil servants from agencies like Treasury, Energy . . . and Commerce denied advisory positions in Baghdad that were instead handed to prominent RNC (Republican National Committee) contributors."


As more and more of O'Beirne's hires arrived in the Green Zone, the CPA's headquarters in Hussein's marble-walled former Republican Palace felt like a campaign war room. Bumper stickers and mouse pads praising President Bush were standard desk decorations. In addition to military uniforms and "Operation Iraqi Freedom" garb, "Bush-Cheney 2004" T-shirts were among the most common pieces of clothing.


"I'm not here for the Iraqis," one staffer noted to a reporter over lunch. "I'm here for George Bush."


When Gordon Robison, who worked in the Strategic Communications office, opened a care package from his mother to find a book by Paul Krugman, a liberal New York Times columnist, people around him stared. "It was like I had just unwrapped a radioactive brick," he recalled.

Finance Background Not Required

Twenty-four-year-old Jay Hallen was restless. He had graduated from Yale two years earlier, and he didn't much like his job at a commercial real-estate firm. His passion was the Middle East, and although he had never been there, he was intrigued enough to take Arabic classes and read histories of the region in his spare time.


He had mixed feelings about the war in Iraq, but he viewed the American occupation as a ripe opportunity. In the summer of 2003, he sent an e-mail to Reuben Jeffrey III, whom he had met when applying for a White House job a year earlier. Hallen had a simple query for Jeffrey, who was working as an adviser to Bremer: Might there be any job openings in Baghdad?


"Be careful what you wish for," Jeffrey wrote in response. Then he forwarded Hallen's resume to O'Beirne's office.


Three weeks later, Hallen got a call from the Pentagon. The CPA wanted him in Baghdad. Pronto. Could he be ready in three to four weeks?


The day he arrived in Baghdad, he met with Thomas C. Foley, the CPA official in charge of privatizing state-owned enterprises. (Foley, a major Republican Party donor, went to Harvard Business School with President Bush.) Hallen was shocked to learn that Foley wanted him to take charge of reopening the stock exchange.


"Are you sure?" Hallen said to Foley. "I don't have a finance background."


It's fine, Foley replied. He told Hallen that he was to be the project manager. He would rely on other people to get things done. He would be "the main point of contact."


Before the war, Baghdad's stock exchange looked nothing like its counterparts elsewhere in the world. There were no computers, electronic displays or men in colorful coats scurrying around on the trading floor. Trades were scrawled on pieces of paper and noted on large blackboards. If you wanted to buy or sell, you came to the exchange yourself and shouted your order to one of the traders. There was no air-conditioning. It was loud and boisterous. But it worked. Private firms raised hundreds of thousands of dollars by selling stock, and ordinary people learned about free enterprise.


The exchange was gutted by looters after the war. The first wave of American economic reconstruction specialists from the Treasury Department ignored it. They had bigger issues to worry about: paying salaries, reopening the banks, stabilizing the currency. But the brokers wanted to get back to work and investors wanted their money, so the CPA made the reopening a priority.


Quickly absorbing the CPA's ambition during the optimistic days before the insurgency flared, Hallen decided that he didn't just want to reopen the exchange, he wanted to make it the best, most modern stock market in the Arab world. He wanted to promulgate a new securities law that would make the exchange independent of the Finance Ministry, with its own bylaws and board of directors. He wanted to set up a securities and exchange commission to oversee the market. He wanted brokers to be licensed and listed companies to provide financial disclosures. He wanted to install a computerized trading and settlement system.


Iraqis cringed at Hallen's plan. Their top priority was reopening the exchange, not setting up computers or enacting a new securities law. "People are broke and bewildered," broker Talib Tabatabai told Hallen. "Why do you want to create enemies? Let us open the way we were."


Tabatabai, who held a doctorate in political science from Florida State University, believed Hallen's plan was unrealistic. "It was something so fancy, so great, that it couldn't be accomplished," he said.


But Hallen was convinced that major changes had to be enacted. "Their laws and regulations were completely out of step with the modern world," he said. "There was just no transparency in anything. It was more of a place for Saddam and his friends to buy up private companies that they otherwise didn't have a stake in."


Opening the stock exchange without legal and structural changes, Hallen maintained, "would have been irresponsible and short-sighted."


To help rewrite the securities law, train brokers and purchase the necessary computers, Hallen recruited a team of American volunteers. In the spring of 2004, Bremer approved the new law and simultaneously appointed the nine Iraqis selected by Hallen to become the exchange's board of governors.


The exchange's board selected Tabatabai as its chairman. The new securities law that Hallen had nursed into life gave the board control over the exchange's operations, but it didn't say a thing about the role of the CPA adviser. Hallen assumed that he'd have a part in decision-making until the handover of sovereignty. Tabatabai and the board, however, saw themselves in charge.


Tabatabai and the other governors decided to open the market as soon as possible. They didn't want to wait several more months for the computerized trading system to be up and running. They ordered dozens of dry-erase boards to be installed on the trading floor. They used such boards to keep track of buying and selling prices before the war, and that's how they'd do it again.


The exchange opened two days after Hallen's tour in Iraq ended. Brokers barked orders to floor traders, who used their trusty white boards. Transactions were recorded not with computers but with small chits written in ink. CPA staffers stayed away, afraid that their presence would make the stock market a target for insurgents.


When Tabatabai was asked what would have happened if Hallen hadn't been assigned to reopen the exchange, he smiled. "We would have opened months earlier. He had grand ideas, but those ideas did not materialize," Tabatabai said of Hallen. "Those CPA people reminded me of Lawrence of Arabia."

'Loyalist' Replaces Public Health Expert

The hiring of Bremer's most senior advisers was settled upon at the highest levels of the White House and the Pentagon. Some, like Foley, were personally recruited by Bush. Others got their jobs because an influential Republican made a call on behalf of a friend or trusted colleague.


That's what happened with James K. Haveman Jr., who was selected to oversee the rehabilitation of Iraq's health care system.


Haveman, a 60-year-old social worker, was largely unknown among international health experts, but he had connections. He had been the community health director for the former Republican governor of Michigan, John Engler, who recommended him to Paul D. Wolfowitz, the deputy secretary of defense.


Haveman was well-traveled, but most of his overseas trips were in his capacity as a director of International Aid, a faith-based relief organization that provided health care while promoting Christianity in the developing world. Before his stint in government, Haveman ran a large Christian adoption agency in Michigan that urged pregnant women not to have abortions.


Haveman replaced Frederick M. Burkle Jr., a physician with a master's degree in public health and postgraduate degrees from Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth and the University of California at Berkeley. Burkle taught at the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health, where he specialized in disaster-response issues, and he was a deputy assistant administrator at the U.S. Agency for International Development, which sent him to Baghdad immediately after the war.


He had worked in Kosovo and Somalia and in northern Iraq after the 1991 Persian Gulf War. A USAID colleague called him the "single most talented and experienced post-conflict health specialist working for the United States government."


But a week after Baghdad's liberation, Burkle was informed he was being replaced. A senior official at USAID sent Burkle an e-mail saying the White House wanted a "loyalist" in the job. Burkle had a wall of degrees, but he didn't have a picture with the president.


Haveman arrived in Iraq with his own priorities. He liked to talk about the number of hospitals that had reopened since the war and the pay raises that had been given to doctors instead of the still-decrepit conditions inside the hospitals or the fact that many physicians were leaving for safer, better paying jobs outside Iraq. He approached problems the way a health care administrator in America would: He focused on preventive measures to reduce the need for hospital treatment.


He urged the Health Ministry to mount an anti-smoking campaign, and he assigned an American from the CPA team -- who turned out to be a closet smoker himself -- to lead the public education effort. Several members of Haveman's staff noted wryly that Iraqis faced far greater dangers in their daily lives than tobacco. The CPA's limited resources, they argued, would be better used raising awareness about how to prevent childhood diarrhea and other fatal maladies.


Haveman didn't like the idea that medical care in Iraq was free. He figured Iraqis should pay a small fee every time they saw a doctor. He also decided to allocate almost all of the Health Ministry's $793 million share of U.S. reconstruction funds to renovating maternity hospitals and building new community medical clinics. His intention, he said, was "to shift the mind-set of the Iraqis that you don't get health care unless you go to a hospital."


But his decision meant there were no reconstruction funds set aside to rehabilitate the emergency rooms and operating theaters at Iraqi hospitals, even though injuries from insurgent attacks were the country's single largest public health challenge.


Haveman also wanted to apply American medicine to other parts of the Health Ministry. Instead of trying to restructure the dysfunctional state-owned firm that imported and distributed drugs and medical supplies to hospitals, he decided to try to sell it to a private company.


To prepare it for a sale, he wanted to attempt something he had done in Michigan. When he was the state's director of community health, he sought to slash the huge amount of money Michigan spent on prescription drugs for the poor by limiting the medications doctors could prescribe for Medicaid patients. Unless they received an exemption, physicians could only prescribe drugs that were on an approved list, known as a formulary.


Haveman figured the same strategy could bring down the cost of medicine in Iraq. The country had 4,500 items on its drug formulary. Haveman deemed it too large. If private firms were going to bid for the job of supplying drugs to government hospitals, they needed a smaller, more manageable list. A new formulary would also outline new requirements about where approved drugs could be manufactured, forcing Iraq to stop buying medicines from Syria, Iran and Russia, and start buying from the United States.


He asked the people who had drawn up the formulary in Michigan whether they wanted to come to Baghdad. They declined. So he beseeched the Pentagon for help. His request made its way to the Defense Department's Pharmacoeconomic Center in San Antonio.


A few weeks later, three formulary experts were on their way to Iraq.


The group was led by Theodore Briski, a balding, middle-aged pharmacist who held the rank of lieutenant commander in the U.S. Navy. Haveman's order, as Briski remembered it, was: "Build us a formulary in two weeks and then go home." By his second day in Iraq, Briski came to three conclusions. First, the existing formulary "really wasn't that bad." Second, his mission was really about "redesigning the entire Iraqi pharmaceutical procurement and delivery system, and that was a complete change of scope -- on a grand scale." Third, Haveman and his advisers "really didn't know what they were doing."


Haveman "viewed Iraq as Michigan after a huge attack," said George Guszcza, an Army captain who worked on the CPA's health team. "Somehow if you went into the ghettos and projects of Michigan and just extended it out for the entire state -- that's what he was coming to save."


Haveman's critics, including more than a dozen people who worked for him in Baghdad, contend that rewriting the formulary was a distraction. Instead, they said, the CPA should have focused on restructuring, but not privatizing, the drug-delivery system and on ordering more emergency shipments of medicine to address shortages of essential medicines. The first emergency procurement did not occur until early 2004, after the Americans had been in Iraq for more than eight months.


Haveman insisted that revising the formulary was a crucial first step in improving the distribution of medicines. "It was unwieldy to order 4,500 different drugs, and to test and distribute them," he said.


When Haveman left Iraq, Baghdad's hospitals were as decrepit as the day the Americans arrived. At Yarmouk Hospital, the city's largest, rooms lacked the most basic equipment to monitor a patient's blood pressure and heart rate, operating theaters were without modern surgical tools and sterile implements, and the pharmacy's shelves were bare.


Nationwide, the Health Ministry reported that 40 percent of the 900 drugs it deemed essential were out of stock in hospitals. Of the 32 medicines used in public clinics for the management of chronic diseases, 26 were unavailable.


The new health minister, Aladin Alwan, beseeched the United Nations for help, and he asked neighboring nations to share what they could. He sought to increase production at a state-run manufacturing plant in the city of Samarra. And he put the creation of a new formulary on hold. To him, it was a fool's errand.


"We didn't need a new formulary. We needed drugs," he said. "But the Americans did not understand that."

A 9/11 Hero's Public Relations Blitz

In May 2003, a team of law enforcement experts from the Justice Department concluded that more than 6,600 foreign advisers were needed to help rehabilitate Iraq's police forces.


The White House dispatched just one: Bernie Kerik.


Bernard Kerik had more star power than Bremer and everyone else in the CPA combined. Soldiers stopped him in the halls of the Republican Palace to ask for his autograph or, if they had a camera, a picture. Reporters were more interested in interviewing him than they were the viceroy.


Kerik had been New York City's police commissioner when terrorists attacked the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001. His courage (he shouted evacuation orders from a block away as the south tower collapsed), his stamina (he worked around the clock and catnapped in his office for weeks), and his charisma (he was a master of the television interview) turned him into a national hero. When White House officials were casting about for a prominent individual to take charge of Iraq's Interior Ministry and assume the challenge of rebuilding the Iraqi police, Kerik's name came up. Bush pronounced it an excellent idea.


Kerik had worked in the Middle East before, as the security director for a government hospital in Saudi Arabia, but he was expelled from the country amid a government investigation into his surveillance of the medical staff. He lacked postwar policing experience, but the White House viewed that as an asset.


Veteran Middle East hands were regarded as insufficiently committed to the goal of democratizing the region. Post-conflict experts, many of whom worked for the State Department, the United Nations or nongovernmental organizations, were deemed too liberal. Men such as Kerik -- committed Republicans with an accomplished career in business or government -- were ideal. They were loyal, and they shared the Bush administration's goal of rebuilding Iraq in an American image. With Kerik, there were bonuses: The media loved him, and the American public trusted him.


Robert Gifford, a State Department expert in international law enforcement, was one of the first CPA staff members to meet Kerik when he arrived in Baghdad. Gifford was the senior adviser to the Interior Ministry, which oversaw the police. Kerik was to take over Gifford's job.


"I understand you are going to be the man, and we are here to support you," Gifford told Kerik.


"I'm here to bring more media attention to the good work on police because the situation is probably not as bad as people think it is," Kerik replied.


As they entered the Interior Ministry office in the palace, Gifford offered to brief Kerik. "It was during that period I realized he wasn't with me," Gifford recalled. "He didn't listen to anything. He hadn't read anything except his e-mails. I don't think he read a single one of our proposals."


Kerik wasn't a details guy. He was content to let Gifford figure out how to train Iraqi officers to work in a democratic society. Kerik would take care of briefing the viceroy and the media. And he'd be going out for a few missions himself.


Kerik's first order of business, less than a week after he arrived, was to give a slew of interviews saying the situation was improving. He told the Associated Press that security in Baghdad "is not as bad as I thought. Are bad things going on? Yes. But is it out of control? No. Is it getting better? Yes." He went on NBC's "Today" show to pronounce the situation "better than I expected." To Time magazine, he said that "people are starting to feel more confident. They're coming back out. Markets and shops that I saw closed one week ago have opened."


When it came to his own safety, Kerik took no chances. He hired a team of South African bodyguards, and he packed a 9mm handgun under his safari vest.


The first months after liberation were a critical period for Iraq's police. Officers needed to be called back to work and screened for Baath Party connections. They'd have to learn about due process, how to interrogate without torture, how to walk the beat. They required new weapons. New chiefs had to be selected. Tens of thousands more officers would have to be hired to put the genie of anarchy back in the bottle.


Kerik held only two staff meetings while in Iraq, one when he arrived and the other when he was being shadowed by a New York Times reporter, according to Gerald Burke, a former Massachusetts State Police commander who participated in the initial Justice Department assessment mission. Despite his White House connections, Kerik did not secure funding for the desperately needed police advisers. With no help on the way, the task of organizing and training Iraqi officers fell to U.S. military police soldiers, many of whom had no experience in civilian law enforcement.


"He was the wrong guy at the wrong time," Burke said later. "Bernie didn't have the skills. What we needed was a chief executive-level person. . . . Bernie came in with a street-cop mentality."


Kerik authorized the formation of a hundred-man Iraqi police paramilitary unit to pursue criminal syndicates that had formed since the war, and he often joined the group on nighttime raids, departing the Green Zone at midnight and returning at dawn, in time to attend Bremer's senior staff meeting, where he would crack a few jokes, describe the night's adventures and read off the latest crime statistics prepared by an aide. The unit did bust a few kidnapping gangs and car-theft rings, generating a stream of positive news stories that Kerik basked in and Bremer applauded. But the all-nighters meant Kerik wasn't around to supervise the Interior Ministry during the day. He was sleeping.


Several members of the CPA's Interior Ministry team wanted to blow the whistle on Kerik, but they concluded any complaints would be brushed off. "Bremer's staff thought he was the silver bullet," a member of the Justice Department assessment mission said. "Nobody wanted to question the [man who was] police chief during 9/11."


Kerik contended that he did his best in what was, ultimately, an untenable situation. He said he wasn't given sufficient funding to hire foreign police advisers or establish large-scale training programs.


Three months after he arrived, Kerik attended a meeting of local police chiefs in Baghdad's Convention Center. When it was his turn to address the group, he stood and bid everyone farewell. Although he had informed Bremer of his decision a few days earlier, Kerik hadn't told most of the people who worked for him. He flew out of Iraq a few hours later.


"I was in my own world," he said later. "I did my own thing."


© 2006 The Washington Post Company




No, both plus yours are false.
On intercountry adoption you will find the following: "...the laws of the child’s country of birth govern all activity in that country including the adoptability of individual children as well as the adoption of children in the country in general"...that country of birth being the United States. It does not matter in the slightest the hoops Obama's mom and adopted father had to jump through to satisfy INDONESIAN immigration law, designation of religion or school admission requirements. Dual citizenship, triple citizenship...whatever...does NOT and WILL NEVER cancel his US citizenship.
False Ad

Obama Continues Airing False Ad


heritage.org


this was not false
This was on the news, it is online and this comment was not false.  Do you not keep up with the latest?
false accusations
You know, back in the late 1990's, I belonged to a political group and there was one person who started off posting okay, as the hours went on, her posts grew more and more illogical, like how yours do.  Well, when I finally befriended her, she confided she was an alcoholic and when she first sat down, she was okay, as she drank, her posts did not make sense.  Kind of like your posts.  I have told you over and over, I NEVER wished rotting in hell to anyone on any of these boards, I wish it still for Bush and all that got us into this never-ending war against *terrorism*.  Then you state I called the three cohorts three stooges, nope, not me.  The thing that cracks me up, is the proof is in the pudding.  The posts are here for anyone to read and see that your accusations are false.  So, why dont you just put that bottle down, its only gonna give you major organ damage in the long run.  A nice cup of green tea can be just as relaxing.
False beliefs
On the flip side, what good will the war do us when we lose our house, our jobs, can no longer afford the food in the stores, can't buy gas to get to work (if you still have a job), you and your family now have to find a campground or shelter to live at (or worse) and the banks close and now you can't get any of your money out that you may have in there (this has already happened somewhere - would have to research again to find the exact location but its here in the US). This is exactly the scare tactics/agenda McCain is trying to push (gotta keep up the war, keep up the war, everyone is the enemy, lets keep it going for 100 years) - give me a break! They are trying to get enough people to be afraid (which is in itself a form of terrorism) that we are going to be attacked again. You know what...get our troops home and we will have more troops to protect our borders and increase security here in the US) Well first the economy is the most important issue (at least to me), unless of course you plan to pack up your stuff and go join the service and fight over there. If the economy collapses where are you going to be. How bout your parents/grandparents who cannot just pick up so easily and move to another area. McCain keeps pushing the war issue because he has no clue about the economy. He doesn't even remain consistent with his issue on gay marriage. My feeling is I don't care if George & John down the street or Mary & Sue down the road want to get married - that will not effect my day-to-day life however the economy does, my job does, eating and paying bills does affect me each day. McCain was at a meeting and he said he was for gay marriage, then 11 minutes later he said he was not for gay marriage. He's too old and out of touch with reality. Do you really want someone with his temper ready to hit the launch button in in whim? He is not a stable man (in my opinion).
false. Throw something

else against the wall, may be it will stick.


 


True and false
True - last 8 years were not good (including the last two with a democratic congress). With that said I was glad there were two new people running and not Bush again.

Attractiveness is a major component for success.

Charisma can be successful but very very dangerous. Charisma mesmerizes people. When people are mesmerized they don't think clearly. They fall into a hypnotic state (which Obama is very good at), and you can tell them anything and they will believe it. Just look at all the people who actually believe Obama is the Messiah or Moses.

As for the qualifications. Obama doesn't have any unless you call being a charismatic speaker experienced. After all he got a lot of people to believe that being a community organizer was enough experience to be president. I also found it interesting Joe Biden and Bill Clinton both said he lacked the experience to be president.
This is a false rumor
Check out emails like this that you get on snopes.com.  If you go to snopes website and type in AIG bailout congress pension you will get the real truth.  So many emails I get are totally false I never forward anything until I check it out on snopes. 
This is false per www.truthorfiction.com. sm
I think it is a good letter fake or not.

Ms. Kathleen Lyday is a real person, works for Grandview Elementary School in Hillsboro, MO but told TruthorFiction.com that she did not author this letter.

We have not found who actually wrote this.

Below is the disclaimer from ToF.

School teacher wrote a letter to President Obama criticizing his actions on a 2009 overseas trip -Fiction!



making false statements
Well, if someone posts that I have called them a bigot TEN TIMES and all I see is the heading of my post talking about bigotry..what do you call it?  I call em as I see em..Liar is someone putting out false and misleading statements.  Stating that I called you a bigot 10 times is false and misleading..hence, liar..
Your "quotes" of what I said in my post are false. - sm
I said nothing about suing a Christian wearing a cross, nor did I mention the ACLU. I also said nothing about 'not going near the
White House'. And I basically know nothing of the Mt. Soledad cross, nor do I really give a rip about it.

If you're going to use this forum to try to push your faith on people, and if you're going to 'quote' me, then you better first:
a) Actually READ the post,
and
b) Quote me verbatim, without making up a lot of garbage that I never said.
false. No basis in reality for
this statement.
False charge exposed
RE: Obama filed lawsuit that "bullied" banks into giving risky loans.

Buycks-Roberson vs CitiBank Federal Savings Bank 1994. This was a class action lawuit which sought to challenge the practice of redlining, based on the 14th Amendment requirement of "fair and equal treatment for all citizens." The lawsuit charged that CitiBank rejected loan applications of minority applicants while approving loan applications filed by white applicants with similar financial characteristics and credit histories. This was settled out of court. Some class members received cash payments and CitiBank revised its discriminatory lending practice policies.

The action was brought against a single bank…CitiBank, though redlining was a widespread practice at the time. Obama DID NOT FILE this lawsuit. He was a junior member of an 8-member team that worked on the case. The lead attorney for CitiBank does not recall ever seeing Obama in the court during the proceedings. Obama charged a total of 2 hours and 50 minutes for his work on the case for reviewing some documents before a deposition and appeared ONCE before the judge to request an extension of time for filing a response to a motion in the case.

This decision did not "force banks" to do anything except to process minority loan applications the same as they were processing loans to white applicants. If this outcome in any way contributed to the mortgage crisis some 14 years later, it would be based on the fact that the banks were already handing out those "bad loans" hand-over-fist to the white applicants…a practice they agreed to extend to ALL applicants as "fair and equal treatment" under the 14th Amendment.

Once the facts get a thorough look-see, it becomes evident that the charges the McCain camp are trying to lay on Obama are (surprise, surprise) patently false.

Beware of false prophets!
Thanks for the vote of confidence in a country I still believe in! Keep that divisive attitude - it will serve you well.
And the false prophets name is Obama
Oh, and your welcome, especially since the O keeps dividing the country and not keeping his promises about being the "only" candidate that will bring both democrat & republicans together and have them all on his cabinet, when the only ones he's bringing in are the democratic nazi socialists.

You believe in this country? Do you not see what's happening all around us. Even the O is telling us its going to get worse. Is that what you have confidence in? Sounds like one of those overused phrases that don't mean anything like "yes we can" (i.e., yes we can ruin the country) or "hope" (i.e. hope everyone else will be too focused on AI to see what damage can be done).

Actually the crats are the ones with the "divisive" attitute. Nothing more divisive than bringing only crats to the table.

We'd all be a little more hopeful if he would keep his campaign promises.
That's false; Jefferson didn't say that. sm
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/jefferson/banks.asp
"Buried false fable"
nope, not talking down at all.

I don't need to get over myself, and I don't hate and I don't have intolerance EXCEPT for when someone claims to be Christian and does otherwise.

I love all the kindness and tolerance he has shown to the millions of unborn babies who will die thanks to him. SOOO kind! And he was definitely kind as he bowed down to a foreign leader. He'll be so kind as to willingly sell us all to the highest bidder. Can't wait!



There are so many false statements in your post...
Afghans are not Arabs

Arabs cannot get along among themselves? Neither can Republicans and Democrats.

Obama cannot withdraw troops in Iraq as fast as he thought because the situation changed. The Taliban in Pakistan is getting stronger. Already during his campaign O said he will send more troops to Afghanistan.

Waterboarding IS torture.

The beheadings started after the Abu Ghraib torture pictures were published.


Hamas is O's heritage? That's a little farfetched. In addition Hamas is militant, Obama is not.

Hamas is Netanyahu's counterpart. Tot-for-tat. Both are extremists. Both want the same: Netanyahu wants whole Palestine for Israel, Hamas wants whole Palestine for Palestine.

Will never happen! The only solution, aleady accepted by Israel, the Palestinians, teh Arabs and the US is the 2-state solution.

The Palestinian president Abbas did not accept the proposal of Netanyahu for a 2-state solution as the conditions set forth by Netanyahu were ridiculous and inacceptable for the Palestinians.

Netanyahu's reaction: Again, immediate bombing of Gaza.
I made it through your foxy post, full of faulty statements.

I noticed that you mentioned at least 5 times regarding JTBB...'come on, JTBB, you are smarter than that...' Fozy, foxy, is this your MO (this means modus operandi? it's Latin) this gives me the creeps...



There are so many false statements in your post...
Afghans are not Arabs

Arabs cannot get along among themselves? Neither can Republicans and Democrats.

Obama cannot withdraw troops in Iraq as fast as he thought because the situation changed. The Taliban in Pakistan is getting stronger. Already during his campaign O said he will send more troops to Afghanistan.

Waterboarding IS torture.

The beheadings started after the Abu Ghraib torture pictures were published.


Hamas is O's heritage? That's a little farfetched. In addition Hamas is militant, Obama is not.

Hamas is Netanyahu's counterpart. Tot-for-tat. Both are extremists. Both want the same: Netanyahu wants whole Palestine for Israel, Hamas wants whole Palestine for Palestine.

Will never happen! The only solution, aleady accepted by Israel, the Palestinians, teh Arabs and the US is the 2-state solution.

The Palestinian president Abbas did not accept the proposal of Netanyahu for a 2-state solution as the conditions set forth by Netanyahu were ridiculous and inacceptable for the Palestinians.

Netanyahu's reaction: Again, immediate bombing of Gaza.
I made it through your foxy post, full of faulty statements.

I noticed that you mentioned at least 5 times regarding JTBB...'come on, JTBB, you are smarter than that...' Fozy, foxy, is this your MO (this means modus operandi? it's Latin) this gives me the creeps...



There are so many false statements in your post...
Afghans are not Arabs

Arabs cannot get along among themselves? Neither can Republicans and Democrats.

Obama cannot withdraw troops in Iraq as fast as he thought because the situation changed. The Taliban in Pakistan is getting stronger. Already during his campaign O said he will send more troops to Afghanistan.

Waterboarding IS torture.

The beheadings started after the Abu Ghraib torture pictures were published.


Hamas is O's heritage? That's a little farfetched. In addition Hamas is militant, Obama is not.

Hamas is Netanyahu's counterpart. Tot-for-tat. Both are extremists. Both want the same: Netanyahu wants whole Palestine for Israel, Hamas wants whole Palestine for Palestine.

Will never happen! The only solution, aleady accepted by Israel, the Palestinians, teh Arabs and the US is the 2-state solution.

The Palestinian president Abbas did not accept the proposal of Netanyahu for a 2-state solution as the conditions set forth by Netanyahu were ridiculous and inacceptable for the Palestinians.

Netanyahu's reaction: Again, immediate bombing of Gaza.
I made it through your foxy post, full of faulty statements.

I noticed that you mentioned at least 5 times regarding JTBB...'come on, JTBB, you are smarter than that...' Fozy, foxy, is this your MO (this means modus operandi? it's Latin) this gives me the creeps...



False. Check out info for facts first.
x
Thrown Away Flags Story False


Days before the anniversary of September 11, on the same morning that John McCain and Barack Obama released a joint statement pledging to avoid politics in light of the anniversary of the terrorist attacks, McCain's campaign accused Democrats of throwing away 12,000 American flags.


"The campaign says the flags were recovered from Invesco Field after the Democrats concluded their convention there," Fox News reported, "and they are going to be used as part of the warm-up ceremonies before McCain takes the stage" for a rally in Colorado Springs, Col.


But according to a senior official involved in organizing the Democratic convention, the McCain camp is simply lying about the flags.


"All of the flags at Invesco were picked up and put in bags and into storage, along with the unused flags and campaign signs. The flags were going to be donated, and the signs were going to be sent out to be used elsewhere," the official said, speaking anonymously since he was not authorized to talk to the press.


Fox News' Carl Cameron and Bonney Kapp reported that they had "been told" that "a vendor at Invesco Field found the flags, which were going to be thrown out, and turned them over to the McCain campaign."


The Democratic convention official says that's not true.


"It's pretty reprehensible on their part," he said. "Someone made an assumption, took the flags, and essentially lied about what was going to happen to them. I mean, c'mon, we were never ever going to throw out flags."


Emails to three McCain spokespersons inquiring where the flags were found and how the McCain campaign obtained them were not returned.


UPDATE: DNC spokeswoman Karen Finney issues a statement: "American flags were proudly waved by the 75,000 people who joined Barack Obama at the Democratic Convention. John McCain should applaud that, but instead his supporters wrongfully took leftover bundles of our flags from the stadium to play a cheap political stunt calling into question our patriotism. On the same day he agrees to join Barack Obama at Ground Zero on September 11, John McCain attacks the patriotism of Obama supporters who so proudly waved the American flag at our historic event in Denver just days ago."






Poster below believed this to be a false statement
xx
No, I equate him with a false teacher/leader
xx
Nah, she probably already made up her mind it's false, even if AP reported it...nm

All general statements are false, so you are wrong... sm
There is one exception. Fox News fans are idiots.
Another argument based on false premise.
underpinnings of our democracy? Here's a clue just for you. What is the function of the Supreme Court? Since when do the 3 branches of our govt NOT interpret the constitution? This has absolutely nothing to do with Obama and everything to do with the ignorance you seem to feel compelled to display, and dern proudly, I might add.

Before you try to tell the rest of us how we should be thinking and such, perhaps you should be addressing your own severe afflictions, starting with your blind hatred.
**Buried False Fable** of Obama not being

religion. Quit turning things around to suit you.


They lie to perpetuate the war on false terror, and control with fear.nm
z
warnings of false gods and religions in the bible...nm

Don't you think that common sense would dictate this to be totally false?
It's these sort of ridiculous statements that contribute to the ignorance that is rampant out there.
Jindal Admits Katrina Story Was False

Jindal Admits Katrina Story Was False




Looks like the game is up.


Remember that story Bobby Jindal told in his big speech Tuesday night -- about how during Katrina, he stood shoulder-to-shoulder with a local sheriff who was battling government red tape to try to rescue stranded victims?


Turns out it wasn't actually, you know, true.


In the last few days, first Daily Kos, and then TPMmuckraker, raised serious questions about the story, based in part on the fact that no news reports we could find place Jindal in the affected area at the specific time at issue.


Jindal had described being in the office of Sheriff Harry Lee "during Katrina," and hearing him yelling into the phone at a government bureaucrat who was refusing to let him send volunteer boats out to rescue stranded storm victims, because they didn't have the necessary permits. Jindal said he told Lee, "that's ridiculous," prompting Lee to tell the bureaucrat that the rescue effort would go ahead and he or she could arrest both Lee and Jindal.


But now, a Jindal spokeswoman has admitted to Politico that in reality, Jindal overheard Lee talking about the episode to someone else by phone "days later." The spokeswoman said she thought Lee, who died in 2007, was being interviewed about the incident at the time.


This is no minor difference. Jindal's presence in Lee's office during the crisis itself was a key element of the story's intended appeal, putting him at the center of the action during the maelstrom. Just as important, Jindal implied that his support for the sheriff helped ensure the rescue went ahead. But it turns out Jindal wasn't there at the key moment, and played no role in making the rescue happen.


There's a larger point here, though. The central anecdote of the GOP's prime-time response to President Obama's speech, intended to illustrate the threat of excessive government regulation, turns out to have been made up.


Maybe it's time to rethink the premise.


http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/02/jindal_admits_katrina_story_was_false.php?ref=fp1


 


Yeah, let's resurrect this buried false fable.

NM


Rick Santorum's claim of finding WMDs is just more false propaganda.

(I can't understand why they must keep lying.)


Lawmakers Cite Weapons Found in Iraq


Thursday, June 22, 2006; A10


Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-Mich.), chairman of the House intelligence committee, and Sen. Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) told reporters yesterday that weapons of mass destruction had in fact been found in Iraq, despite acknowledgments by the White House and the insistence of the intelligence community that no such weapons had been discovered.


We have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, chemical weapons, Santorum said.


The lawmakers pointed to an unclassified summary from a report by the National Ground Intelligence Center regarding 500 chemical munitions shells that had been buried near the Iranian border, and then long forgotten, by Iraqi troops during their eight-year war with Iran, which ended in 1988.


The U.S. military announced in 2004 in Iraq that several crates of the old shells had been uncovered and that they contained a blister agent that was no longer active. Neither the military nor the White House nor the CIA considered the shells to be evidence of what was alleged by the Bush administration to be a current Iraqi program to make chemical, biological and nuclear weapons.


Last night, intelligence officials reaffirmed that the shells were old and were not the suspected weapons of mass destruction sought in Iraq after the 2003 invasion.



-- Dafna Linzer


© 2006 The Washington Post Company

Not false, you called me Newton, Darwin, and a nasty little wretch - see message
When I never called you anything. After you called me Newton I called you Einstein. And you even made reference in one of your posts that I was an a@@ without coming out and writing the "a" word.

This IS getting childish, but after reading your posts attacking me I said enough, keep your name calling to yourself.

One poster said it's childish and I do feel it is childish. If you hadn't called me those names when I clearly didn't call you anything then I would not have posted. But it was getting to the point that everything I was posting about you were replying calling me things. While I am all for a discussion with people who have a different opinion than mine I should not have to keep reading the negative remarks about me personally.

Someone else said I have the nasty attitude. I believe she probably agrees with a lot of your posts and is defending you. So I took her challenge and read through the last 3 pages to when I first began posting.

I've even copy and pasted all messages in a word document if your interested. But never once in any of my posts did I call you or any other person names. I only called you Einstein after you called me Newton.

Having a difference of opinions is one thing, and explaining why but there is never any need to result to name calling. The moderator has expressed that many times.

But at least I don't feel alone because I read some other posts where you called someone a prophet and a snake when they hadn't said anything bad to you.

So please, be my guest, you show me one post that I started off calling you names. I don't take this personal, this board is to discuss issues. I'm always welcome for quality discussion of issues. I know a lot of people don't like their posts challenged but when I feel something is wrong I will write a post. I don't post to every post on this board like Nasty Attitude said I did. I went back through the pages to when I first started posting and there are only a few posts I replied to.

And when I'm wrong I'll say I'm wrong. This time I am not wrong. And I'm respectful to other people. Everyone is entitled to their viewpoint. But we should not be badgered and called names because of our differences in opinions.
Not false, you called me Newton, Darwin, and a nasty little wretch - see message
When I never called you anything. After you called me Newton I called you Einstein. And you even made reference in one of your posts that I was an a@@ without coming out and writing the "a" word.

This IS getting childish, but after reading your posts attacking me I said enough, keep your name calling to yourself.

One poster said it's childish and I do feel it is childish. If you hadn't called me those names when I clearly didn't call you anything then I would not have posted. Telling me you don't agree with what I say and writing why is one thing but calling me a wretch or Newton or anything else is just childish and I'm tired of it. And it was getting to the point that everything I was posting about you were replying calling me things. While I am all for a discussion with people who have a different opinion than mine I should not have to keep reading the negative remarks about me personally.

Someone else said I have the nasty attitude. I believe she probably agrees with a lot of your posts and is defending you. So I took her challenge and read through the last 3 pages to when I first began posting.

I've even copied and pasted all messages in a word document if your interested. But never once in any of my posts did I call you or any other poster names. I only called you Einstein after you called me Newton.

Having a difference of opinions is one thing, and explaining why but there is never any need to result to insults. Stick to the issues. The moderator has expressed that many times.

But at least I don't feel alone because I read some other posts where you called someone a prophet and a snake when they hadn't said anything bad to you.

So please, be my guest, you show me one post that I started off calling you or any other poster names. I don't take this personal, this board is to discuss issues. I'm always welcome for quality discussion of difference of issues. I know a lot of people don't like their posts challenged but when I feel something is wrong I will write a post. I don't post to every post on this board like "Nasty Attitude" said I did. I went back through the pages to when I first started posting and there are only a few posts I replied to.

And when I'm wrong I'll say I'm wrong. This time I am not wrong. And I'm respectful to other people. Everyone is entitled to their viewpoint. But we should not be badgered and called names because of our differences in opinions.
Not dim-witted, just clinging to false hopes, turning a blind eye to truth, and in for a big disappo
x
Wow, I can't believe you posted that. sm
considering all else you have posted on these boards.  LOLOLOLOL!!!  Man oh man!
who posted it?
I suspect it was the person who goes under the name Brunson who posted the Army mom post as in the post it talks about C-Span and I kind of thought..mmmmm..this is just one of those crazy right wingers posting to start stuff..So right after the post came through, I checked out the right wing board and Brunson was posting the same thing about checking out C-Span today.  Coincidence?  I dont think so..Two posters within one minute posting about checking out C-Span today? 
She posted this as a
She stated above the reference to the Clinton body count and that it was a conspiracy theory.  The statement of someone above *It seems that people that sue Bush turn up in bad health or dead* is every bit as much a conspiracy theory as this.  Someone on both boards has been trying to spam us with conspiracy theories for days now none of which have an ounce of substance or actual fact behind them.  Most of us can see the difference between conspiracy and an actual story with facts behind them.  It's really hard to get away with conspiracy theories when there is so many facts out there on the net.
This has been posted before. sm

And is in no way or shape complete or accurate.  Rumsfeld served 3 years.  You think a flight instructor is a small job?  That's pretty telling.  Clinton dodged the draft by deferring for a ROTC duty, which he never fulfilled after writing his famous loathing of the military letter. So if we are going to post these lists again and again, let's get it right.