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Nation has lost 4.4 million jobs since recession began in Dec. 2007

Posted By: sm on 2009-03-06
In Reply to:

Unemployment rate soars to 8.1 percent
Employers resort to even bigger layoffs as they scramble to survive
BREAKING NEWS
The Associated Press
updated 8:02 a.m. CT, Fri., March. 6, 2009


WASHINGTON - The nation's unemployment rate bolted to 8.1 percent in February, the highest since late 1983, as cost-cutting employers slashed 651,000 jobs.


Both figures were worse than analysts expected and the Labor Department's report shows America's workers being clobbered by a relentless wave of layoffs.


The net loss of jobs in February came after even deeper payroll reductions in the prior two months, according to revised figures. The economy lost 681,000 jobs in December and another 655,000 in January.


Since the recession began in December 2007, the economy has lost 4.4 million jobs, more than half of which occurred in the past four months.


Employers are shrinking their work forces at alarming clip and are turning to other ways to slash costs — including trimming workers' hours, freezing wages or cutting pay — because the recession has eaten into their sales and profits. Customers at home and abroad are cutting back as other countries cope with their own economic problems.


With employers showing no appetite to hire, the unemployment jumped to 8.1 percent from 7.6 percent in January. That was the highest since December 1983, when the jobless rate was 8.3 percent.


All told, the number of unemployed people climbed to 12.5 million. In addition, the number of people forced to work part time for "economic reasons" rose by a sharp 787,000 to 8.6 million. That's people who would like to work full time but whose hours were cut back or were unable to find full-time work.


Meanwhile, the average work week in February stayed at 33.3 hours, matching the record low set in December.


Job losses were widespread in February.


Construction companies eliminated 104,000 jobs. Factories axed 168,000. Retailers cut nearly 40,000. Professional and business services got rid of 180,000, with 78,000 jobs lost at temporary-help agencies. Financial companies reduced payrolls by 44,000. Leisure and hospitality firms chopped 33,000 positions.


The few areas spared: education and health services, as well as government, which boosted employment last month.


A new wave of layoffs hit this week.


General Dynamics Corp. said Thursday it will lay off 1,200 workers due partly to plummeting sales of business and personal jets that forced it to cut production. Defense contractor Northrop Grumman Corp., and Tyco Electronics Ltd., which makes electronic components, undersea telecommunications systems and wireless equipment, also are trimming payrolls.


"This is basically cleaning house for a lot of firms," said John Silvia, chief economist at Wachovia. "They are using the first quarter to cut back employment and figure out what they want."


Disappearing jobs and evaporating wealth from tanking home values, 401(k)s and other investments have forced consumers to retrench, driving companies to lay off workers. It's a vicious cycle in which all the economy's negative problems feed on each other, worsening the downward spiral.


"The economy is in a tailspin. Businesses are jettisoning jobs at an unprecedented pace," said Richard Yamarone, economist at Argus Research.


The country is getting bloodied by fallout from the housing, credit and financial crises_ the worst since the 1930s. And there's no easy fix for a quick turnaround, economists said.


President Barack Obama is counting on a multipronged assault to lift the country out of recession: a $787 billion stimulus package of increased federal spending and tax cuts; a revamped, multibillion-dollar bailout program for the nation's troubled banks; and a $75 billion effort to stem home foreclosures.


Even in the best-case scenario that the relief efforts work and the recession ends later in 2009, the unemployment rate is expected to keep climbing, hitting 9 percent or higher this year. In fact, the Federal Reserve thinks the unemployment rate will stay elevated into 2011. Economists say the job market may not get back to normal — meaning a 5 percent unemployment rate — until 2013.


Businesses won't be inclined to ramp up hiring until they are sure any economic recovery has staying power.


The economy contracted at a staggering 6.2 percent in the final three months of 2008, the worst showing in a quarter-century, and it will probably continue to shrink during the first six months of this year.


Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke told Congress earlier this week that recent economic barometers "show little sign of improvement" and suggest that "labor market conditions may have worsened further in recent weeks."


Consumers’ growing frugality has hammered automakers, among other industries. General Motors Corp.'s auditors on Thursday raised "substantial doubt" about the auto giant’s ability to continue operations, and the company said it might have to seek bankruptcy protection, sending its shares below $2.


Bill Hampel, chief economist for the Credit Union National Association, said his group’s members are reporting record increases in deposits. Government figures show the savings rate jumped to 5 percent in January from zero last spring. That’s the highest rate since 1995 and a much faster shift than he had expected, Hampel said.


Consumer spending makes up about 70 percent of the economy. It topped out at 71 percent in 2005, Hampel said, but will likely drop by 2 to 3 percentage points over the next few years.


Increased savings can actually lower economic growth. Economists call it the “paradox of thrift”: What’s good for each of us individually — being thrifty, limiting our spending — can worsen a recession when everyone does it all at once.


Hoffman said about half the 6.2 percent drop in economic output last quarter was attributable to lower consumer spending.





LINK/URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29538287/


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2.6 million jobs lost in 2008 alone.
There are plenty of able-bodied folks out there who are out of work ALSO through no fault of their own, in view of this ever shrinking job market. Handicapped have to overcome THAT obstacle, too.
The Great Recession. American a thrift nation.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1891527,00.html?cnn=yes

Sometimes we change because we want to: lose weight, go vegan, find God, get sober. But sometimes we change because we have no choice, and since this violates our manifest destiny to do as we please, it may take a while before we notice that those are often the changes we need to make most. We ran a good long road test of the premise that more is better: we built houses that could hold all our stuff but were too big to heat; we bought cars that could ferry a soccer team but were too big to park; we thought we were embracing the simple life by squeezing in a yoga class between working and shopping and took an extra job to pay for it all.

Now we're stripping down and starting over. A platoon of TIME reporters and pollsters fanned out to every corner of the country to measure — anecdotally and empirically — what's changed in the way we set our priorities and spend our money since the Great Recession began. Most people think the pain will be lasting and the effects permanent: only 12% expect economic recovery to begin within six months, half believe it will be another year or two, and 14% believe we are at the start of a long-term decline. (See TIME's special report on how Americans have adjusted to the recession.)

Our institutions watch for economic vital signs. But maybe, for individuals, the sickness is what came before — the hallucination that debt would never need to be repaid, that values only rise, that bubbles never burst. When the markets collapsed, that fever broke. In our assumptions and attitudes and expectations, the recovery is already well under way.

Talk to people not just about how they feel but about how they're living now, and you hear more resolve than regret. Nearly half say their economic status declined this year, and 57% now think the American Dream is harder to achieve. And yet pain and promise are a package deal; even after all this, fully 56% believe that America's best days are ahead. It would be nice if it took something short of a heart attack to get us to work out, eat better and spend more time with our kids. But in the end, where we wind up matters more than how we got there.

Unlike any other downturn since the 1930s, this one has affected everyone, either the fact of it or the fear of it. Even when prosperity returns, 61% predict, they'll continue to spend less than they did before. Among people earning less than $50,000 a year — roughly half of U.S. households — 34% have not gone to the doctor because of the cost, 31% have been out of work at some point, and 13% have been hungry. At the same time, 4 in 10 people earning more than $100,000 say they are buying more store brands, 36% are using coupons more, and 39% have postponed or canceled a vacation to save money. Forty percent of people at all income levels say they feel anxious, 32% have trouble sleeping, and 20% are depressed. After a season of big news, of war and storms and swindlers, pirates and poison peanut butter, 43% are watching the news even more, taking the medicine even if it tastes bad because skipping it could be risky. (See the worst business deals of 2008.)

The calculus of life suddenly offers new equations. Insurance agents see clients raising their deductibles to lower premiums, or skipping collision coverage for older cars so that they bear more of the risks themselves. Twenty-seven percent have raided their retirement or college savings to pay the bills. Violent crime may not be up, but fear of it is: 40% of people say that since the downturn began, they are more worried about their personal safety. Gun sales at large retail stores have jumped 39% this year, according to the SportsOneSource, a research firm that tracks the sporting-goods industry, and shops are reporting ammunition shortages; they can't keep up with demand.

For all the reflexive analogies, this is not the 1930s, when Babe Ruth took a $10,000 salary cut (roughly what A-Rod earns per swing) and New York City Mayor Jimmy Walker told theaters to show only cheery films. And yet we're channeling our grandparents, who were taught, like a mantra, to use it up, wear it out, make it do, do without. Now, if you can make it, you don't have to buy it: just replace the lawn with a vegetable garden, eat your fill and then store whatever is left. Sales of canning and freezing supplies rose 15% during the first three months of the year compared with the same period last year. Cough- and cold-remedy sales are down 9% because you can make your own chicken soup; vitamin sales are up, maybe because you hope you won't need to. Common sense is back in style, meaning we're less willing to buy what we can have for free: bottled-water sales have dropped 10%. The 137-year-old Los Angeles public library system set record highs in circulation and visitors. And film and camera sales have plunged 33% this year, because who would want this winter in their album?

There's a natural longing to find the upside in the downturn. A college-admissions officer, watching families reassess their means and ends, suggests that maybe the insane competitiveness will recede. The yoga instructor says living more simply relaxes us, as if the entire country needs to slow its breathing. The buyer at the used-car lot feels both frugal and green: that hatchback isn't used, it's "pre-owned," and this counts as recycling. The discount shoppers view their task as a scavenger hunt and take a certain pride in finding the bargain, cutting the deal; 23% of us are haggling more, a profitable contact sport.

No one wishes for hardship. But as we pick through the economic rubble, we may find that our riches have buried our treasures. Money does not buy happiness; Scripture asserts this, research confirms it. Once you reach the median level of income, roughly $50,000 a year, wealth and contentment go their separate ways, and studies find that a millionaire is no more likely to be happy than someone earning one-twentieth as much. Now a third of people polled say they are spending more time with family and friends, and nearly four times as many people say their relations with their kids have gotten better during this crisis than say they have gotten worse.

A consumer culture invites us to want more than we can ever have; a culture of thrift invites us to be grateful for whatever we can get. So we pass the time by tending our gardens and patching our safety nets and debating whether, years from now, this season will be remembered for what we lost, or all that we found.
2.9 million jobs tied to 3 car companies

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1858702,00.html?cnn=yes


Pretty scary stuff.  Another Great Depression coming?


your world is not mine - if you cannot get jobs or they are being lost,
or you can no longer afford to go to college, then there is no way to survive without social programs. Lucky for your life, more power to you, but opportunity is shrinking for most of us in the country. The people with the most chance for opportunity and becoming rich are now $250,000 and over - we make $40,000 between 2 of us - sorry, we are just not buying into the mentality that we should just be lucky to have jobs and we should just work hard for our money. we have spent some 40 years putting money INTO this society only now have no control whatsoever over anything.

you honestly think people are going to just keep giving and giving, taking less for themselves and be happy?

I totally disagree with you and I am not all that intereseted in what people who have money think or what their opinions are about what to do with my money. my point is at least it comes back to ME via social programs, or helps some disadvantaged children to get ahead. do you think whoopie there would have gotten anywhere without utilizing some kind of social programs?

I am not bickering about small things here, I am talking about rich people who do not pay taxes and get all the tax breaks and credits while I pay higher in percentage of taxes on everything, such that I cannot even survive on what I am making now.

you act like it is so easy to just go get a job, work hard - where, tell me where to get a job paying enough to cover cost of living. are you living in reality? I do not have a college education, could never afford one, and more and more people cannot afford college education, a lot of grants are gone, no help for the disadvantaged.

have you ever had to decide whether to buy groceries or to pay the electric bill that is going to be shut off? I could go on but what is the point. the republicans just seem to want to get rid of dead weight and just use people as servants, that is the only kind of job I have to look forward to after all my hard work, a service job at some fast-food chain.

again, this is a good point because all this is doing is going to cause a revolution, but it will not be a good one and it will only open up for some worse type of 'party' to take over.

we have more crime than ever going on where I live, because of the economy, but wait until the rich start getting hit because we are starting to see that a lot now here.

they have everything and flaunt it all in front of the poor living right beside them.
Another 750,000 jobs lost in March. Wait, I exaggerate. It was 742,000.
Whew!  For a minute there, I thought we hit three-quarters of a million jobs lost. By the way - the unemployment numbers only reflect people out of work and seeking employment.  They don't reflect the number who have given up the search.  And they won't reflect the kids looking for work this summer and not finding it.
She did loan her campaign 10 million dollars - she owes over 20 million - but...
Hillary says she is not worried about paying herself off, just the other people she owes money to (but I bet she will get her money back somehow). I just read where Barack personally wrote her a check himself for $2300 (the most by law any individual can contribute to a campaign).

The problem is her donors expect him to help her pay this money off if he wants them to continue to support his campaign financially, and he needs their money to finance the general election campaign. Also, they say Hillary can devote more time campaigning and helping his financial situation if she is not having to try to raise money still for her debts.

So anyway, there it is in a nutshell...
Began to think I was on
a conservative site! What are all the conservatives doing here? Trying to convert? Or just can't let liberals live in peace.
temporary jobs lead to permanent jobs -
projects are always just temporary; however, they lead to more permanent positions. Also, by the time some of these "temporary" jobs are over, the crisis should be settling down too. Do you think that rebuilding our infrastructure is going to happen in a day, week, or month?

What should we do? Tell these people who will be temporarily paid not to work for the next couple of years on these jobs because they are only temporary? That is a good idea - nobody do the temporary jobs, that way the projects will never get done and the deficit will not go up, and the economy will just continue to decline...

That's a great way to handle it!
To you history began six years ago
Do you really think the Middle East would be any different if we had never entered Iraq?  The Jew-Arab conflict was never going away.  It was always smoldering sometimes underneath the surface, but more often than not on the surface.  Actually, the reasons they are fighting now doesn't have one thing to do with Iraq.  Of course, the terrorists, are not happy we are in Iraq, but are we trying to make the terrorists happy?  I'm confused, because it seems you think the terrorists have no responsibility in this whatsoever.  I asked you some questions earlier, and you've yet to answer them other than to spin the blame back to the U.S. Bush.
Job losses began when the dems took over
nm
I only lost $1000 so far-Hubby lost $2000 in a week (sm)

so, I called his financial advisor yesterday and told him to put hubby in a "safe" plan. It's now in a money market fund that is part of his IRA.


I have no choice. I have to stay where I am. I have no "safe" available. Neither of us will be able to retire on what is now in our 401Ks and you're not the only one. We couldn't buy a car with Both our 401Ks, let alone live on it.


We are late starters for retirement  not until our late 40s funds (most of our employers did not offer pensions). We are now of the first retirement tier and although we own our home outright, if we live until we are 90, there is no way we can live off retirement 401Ks or SS.


My husband's father told him back in the 50s that we would experience something like what is happening today and stated it would be worse than the ཙ crash. It is sure starting to look that way, but we will survive some way, I hope.


We need to pray for the people on SS now that cannot survive. I, for one, would love to help them, but can't help ourselves at this moment.


 


One Wish For 2007 (see inside for details)...sm
If you could see ONE THING come to fruition in 2007, politically, culturally, economically, socially, JUST ONE THING above all others, what would that be?


Who controlled congress until 2007 whenever
Which side of congress voted down any suggestion of setting time limits or considering troop withdrawals. Which candidate voted against the war 5 years ago? Which candidate brought a timetable for troop withdawal up for consideration in February 2007? Who lobbied to defeat that initiative? Which party is now trying to highjack that same initiative and take credit for it in an election year? Simple questions. Direct answers, please.
According to the 2007 Census Bureau
figures Louisiana's population consists of 65% white, 32% black. Mississippi 60% white, 37% black. Also, the entire state of Louisiana is not contained in the city of New Orleans just as New York City is not the entire state of New York, nor is LA the entire state of California.
John McCain said the same thing on 10/11/2007 sm
He said Hillary Clinton's healthcare plan was "eerily reminiscent" of the plan she offered as first lady in the early 1990s and said "I think they put some lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig."
Link August 2007!. Their system is starting
nm
Yes, it is from 2007 and says the same as those from 2008 - where is a link showing bankrupt?
I cannot find anything like that.
McCain used this expression back in 2007 referring to Hillary's
health care proposal.
Question regarding possible recession?? s/m

With the "bubble bursting" in regards to the housing market and rising fuel prices, do you think a major recession is on the horizon in the US?


I definitely think so, but was wondering what others think?


The Whiner's Recession
 Senator McCain and his friends no doubt still believe that the economy's fundamentals are strong, but Friday's jobs numbers clearly show how bad things have gotten. The 6.1 percent unemployment rate reported for August is almost as high as the worst levels from the last recession. A broader measure of labor market weakness, that includes people who can only find part-time work or who have given up looking for jobs, is higher than at any point in the last recession.

    When the labor market weakens, workers have less bargaining power with their employers. As a result, wages are trailing more than 2 percentage points behind inflation over the last year.


    Wages are virtually the entire income for most workers. If the purchasing power of their wages falls by 2 percent, this is the equivalent of a 2 percentage point increase in their tax rate.


    This is worth thinking about. Most workers in the country have just seen the equivalent of a 2 percentage point increase in their tax rate, and it has gotten almost no attention. By contrast, Senator McCain is claiming that the economy will collapse if we increase the tax rate by 3.6 percentage points for people who can't remember how many homes they own.


    It is easy to understand how a typical family experiences real hardship when their wages don't keep up with the price of food, gas, and heating oil. It's a bit harder to understand how the folks who can't keep track of their homes will suffer by restoring tax rates to the Clinton-era levels.


    This brings us to the other important point about the Friday jobs numbers. The economy is in bad shape and getting worse. This disaster is happening while we are experimenting with the tax policies advocated by Senator McCain. We have an economy that is now shedding jobs at the rate of almost 100,000 a month. There is no prospect of turnaround in sight. We could have half a million fewer jobs by the time the next president is sworn into office than we do today.


    This is the Bush-McCain economy. Senator McCain may have forgotten, but President Bush already tried his economic policies and the results are not good. We have just been through a business cycle in which the wage of the typical worker and the typical working family fell. This is the first time that has ever happened.


    As bad as the situation is, it will surely get worse as the recession deepens. Wages and incomes will fall further behind inflation as the unemployment rate continues to rise. By contrast, the Clinton-era tax rates were associated with the most prosperous period since the early seventies.


    As I have written many times, Clinton's policies do not deserve all the credit for the prosperity of the late 90s, and President Bush's polices do not deserve all the blame for the economy's poor performance in the current decade.


    However, it strains credulity to argue that the Clinton-era tax rates are a recipe for stagnation, while the Bush-McCain tax cuts for the rich are the road to prosperity. When he pushes his tax cuts as a remedy for the economy's ills, Senator McCain is effectively imitating Groucho Marx's famous line: "what are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?"


    At this point, McCain should be embarrassed to even say that tax cuts for the rich help the economy. Tax cuts for the rich help the rich, they don't help the economy. It's that simple.


    This economic catastrophe was many years in the making. There is no painless way to recover from the collapse of the housing bubble and the correction from an over-valued dollar. We do know that Senator McCain's plan to keep giving the rich more money is not a road to prosperity because that is exactly what we have been doing.


    We can't know exactly how Senator Obama will address the economy's problems if he takes office in January in part because we don't know exactly where the economy will be. However, a plan that focuses on supporting ordinary workers and promoting clean technologies, is likely to produce much better results than policies that are focused on redistributing even more income to the wealthy.


http://www.truthout.org/article/the-whiners-recession


That happened to me the last recession we had...
and it took a good 6 years to right itself after the economy straightened out. And when it did...money went right into a CD. I don't mind a little in the market but I am not young enough to wait several years for rebounding again. Sigh.
And you don't think this recession (soon to be depression)...(sm)

has anything to do with it?  Hey, that's what republicans want, big business to grow fast--no regulation--me, me, me...


How about all those families that are going to suffer from this.  Did they ask for it too?


I'm sure a lot of us knew a recession

was coming long before the "experts" knew it.  All they had to do was to be Americans who were trying to fill up their gas tanks, feed their families and try to hang on to their jobs.  I just read an article the other day where someone in the government finally admitted that we've been in a recession that they believe will last another 14 months.  (Can't remember who said it; will try to find the link.)  This is after months and months of denials, although most everday folks felt like they were in a recession long before hearing it "officially."


If they are only now admitting to a recession, that tells me that we're in the beginnings of a full-fledged DEPRESSION. 


Add terror threats, a war between Iran and Israel and the USA, perhaps provoking a terror attack (real or "false flag"), people becoming so poor in this country that their fear is replaced with anger, and voila!!  The US soldiers that are lying in wait for us to "misbehave" as tensions arise so they can keep us in line, just might have their work cut out for them...especially if we suffer another attack on our soil.


We've got crooks running the Treasury Department, all chosen from the same failing companies for which they worked. 


The Wall Street "crisis" came on so quickly and so urgently that nobody knew what to do.


Well, Bush knew what to do.  First, he hired Henry Paulson of Goldman Sachs fame, the company that received a $3 billion payout, who then went on to appoint Michael Alix to "oversee things."  This is the same Michael Alix who was in control of "overseeing things" at Bear Stearns (we remember how well that whole Bear Stearns thing worked out.)  Paulson then went on to appoint Neel Kashkari (another Goldman Sachs graduate).


Bush has selected these men, either personally or through Paulson, because he knows that THEY know how to play the system and accentuate the greed.  He hired people who aren't on America's side at all.  They're part of Bush's "Haves," and the rest of average Americans -- the "have nots" -- aren't even in the picture, except as it pertains to how much money has been stolen from our accounts.  Bush has always has been about greed.  He still is.  When a government begins to buy banks, it's at the very least socialism (if not, more accurately, fascism).  For all intents and purposes, this money could easily be in Bush's pockets.  We don't and won't know this because this particular sweetheart deal came with NO oversight and NO transparency as conditions on the part of Bush.  By the way, Bush bought a ranch in Paraguay. 


Basically, Bush had a lot of knowledgeable, independent people who had NO conflict of interest from having been senior executives of the failed companies from which he could have chosen.


Instead, he chose those who were at the very top to the crooks (if not the crooks themselves.)


In short, Bush hired the foxes to watch the hen houses.  No doubt in my mind that Bush's pockets are going to be pretty full soon if they're not already.


The arrogance with which these auto executives presented their testimony is reminiscent of all the arrogant people who surround themselves with the Arrogant-In-Chief.


In the middle of all this, though, I do see somewhat of a silver lining.  The less money people have to spend, the lower prices will be forced to go -- all that supply and demand stuff. 


Enter Obama's "bottom-up" theory.  Once the lives of the least of us can improve a bit, that will hopefully trickle up to everyone else.


I also heard an excellent idea on TV recently:  That every single CEO of a company should NEVER earn more than the President of the United States.  I kind of liked that one. 


P.S.  I apologize if this post doesn't make any sense.  I'm very heavily medicated right now and probably shouldn't even be at the computer.  I've tried to write this as coherently as I could.  If I failed, I apologize. 


Hope you all have a great evening.


I meant recession, not depression. nm

Worried about a recession?? Here's the solution s/m

With Recession Looming, Bush Tells America To ‘Go Shopping More’


Today, President Bush held a news conference where he discussed the “way forward” for the economy in 2007. Renowned Morgan Stanley economist Steven Roach says the the “odds of the U.S. economy tipping into recession are about 40 to 45 per cent.” New York Times columnist Paul Krugman notes that “the odds are very good — maybe 2 to 1,” that the U.S. will teeter toward a recession in 2007. Bush’s solution? “Go shopping more.”


Michigan is in a one state recession. sm
The big 3 are tanking, our unemployment numbers are higher than the nation as a whole, jobs are leaving like the spring thaw, and who does Obama pick as part of his "Financial Advisory Committee"....none other than our wonderful governor, Jennifer Granholm. She can't advise her own state let alone the country. She now says that we have to cut the budget even more than last time. There isn't a whole lot left to cut. Our education system is absolutely the pits, Detroit is bankrupting us all, and she gets picked for part of the financial advisory committee. Makes me wonder what's going in Obama's head.

Oh well, at least I have a trade I can take with me where ever I go. The ultimate in healthcare portability.
Recession, Suicide and Tips from the Government!

This isn't terribly reassuring!


Government website now offers 'suicide warning signs' for victims of recession


John Byrne
Published: Tuesday March 31, 2009


When the government starts warning you not to commit suicide, you know things have gotten bad.

The US Department of Health and Human Services now has a webpage for the current recession, "Getting Through Tough Economic Times." Headlined under the Substance Abuse & Mental Health Services Administration (
www.samhsa.gov/economy/), the guide offers tips on "how to deal with the effects financial difficulties can have on your physical and mental health." The site went public Tuesday.


The remainder of the story is at:  http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Government_website_offers_suicide_warning_signs_0331.html


Change recession to depression and I'll agree with you.
They just signed America's death warrant. 
And George kept up with those "we are not in a recession" speeches, hilarious but tragic....nm
nm
George Soros is having "a very good recession". Made $2.9 billion.

So, this "man of the people" who funds the loony left and wants all the rest of us to be communists rakes in $billions from the recession.  He's out there picking up stuff at bargain-basement prices just like JP Morgan and his kind did.


Disgusting.


war, depression, recession, collapse of financial system, people losing

homes, natural disasters unattended to, collapsing bridges, earmark bridges. Address those first, save flag for later.


 


I had a friend on Right Nation who went down there. SM
He lives about an hour away.  He did not gestimate anywhere even close to that. 
A great nation. sm

As an outsider, I could give you another perspective and one not nearly so dire as yours.  However, I also realise that my view is slanted as I simply adore this country and Americans in general.  In short, given the information at his disposal, George Bush’s decision to oust Saddam looks altogether reasonable--though, again, not necessarily right. To argue otherwise demonstrates both ignorance and bad faith. So what are we to make of the downward spiral of sectarian mayhem that is currently drawing Iraq into the abyss? The violence seems senseless to us . . . but perhaps that’s the point. Perhaps our enemies recognize that the great exploitable weakness of the American military is that, in the wake of Vietnam, the American public’s grasp of geo-politics runs only as deep as the lyrics to Bob Dylan’s “Blowing in the Wind.” This is a weakness every bit as real, and every bit as deadly, as a missile with a faulty guidance system or a tank that stalls in its tracks--and it will remain a real weakness until the American public is knocked upside the head a sufficient number of times to outgrow it. What the degeneration of the mission in Iraq indicates most profoundly is that one 9/11 was not enough to crack through the platitudes of the late 1960s--which are deeply embedded in the universities, television networks and editorial pages of major newspapers. There remains, in such circles, the delusion that the jihadists are ultimately live and let live types, that totalitarian Islam will eventually just peter out, that the principles of the European Enlightenment will simply dawn on a billion Muslims without us cramming them down their throats.This may in the end prove the deadliest error in geo-political judgment Americans have ever made. Members of the genocidally well-meaning baby-boom generation will likely go to their graves believing they “gave peace a chance,” having spared themselves the anguish of killing hundreds of thousand Muslims . . .  and likely bequeathed to their children and grandchildren the anguish of killing scores of millions. 


the nation really isn't interested

It's just a device used by the neocons to keep the attention of the stifled.  They know that the repressed loonies in the county slobber over anything pertaining to sex.  Just look at O'Reilly.  Nearly every night he has some story about prostitutes, strip clubs, girls gone wild -- he is complaining how horrible it is, yet they always have tapes behind him of half-naked coeds grinding away.  If it is so horrible, must we see the tapes over and over?


 


We are not a nation of businesses.
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I am with you, Shelly. Also, it seems our nation is
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I think it's a symbol of what our nation has become
Greed...from the top to the bottom.  You couldn't pay me enough to get me to go out on Black Friday. 
Obviously we are a divided nation.
Do not see how any of this will work. With no republican vote, that speaks volumes to me. Obviously cannot work together or see eye to eye with the future.
Wow 48 million
Where would we have put all those babies? We could build cities just for them.  that's 48 million more vying for welfare, running through the penal system.  How many serial murderers could have been in that 48 million?  The numbers DO speak volumes.  Obviously the condom hasn't caught on.  But that's not the point.  As our populations has grown, so has all of the other statistics, including the number of abortions.  If you have your way, the social ramifications will be HUGE, huge.  You're not into socialist state.  You can't be thinking that if a woman is forced to have a child she doesn't want with more than likely no father to hlep that all of a sudden she is going to turn into June Cleaver because someone says she has to?  The only people who will benefit from overturning Roe vs Wade will be the one who run the black markets on baby selling.  The demographics speak volumes as well.  Where are the largest numbers of abortions happening?  It is not middle class Bible America.  You are choosing the unborn over the living and saying it is okay to sacrifice the mothers and the fathers for the sake of an ideal in a foreign country.  If that is not a complete contradiction I don't know what is. 
#1, The Nation is extremely partisan. #2.

Tillman didn't talk about why he went into the service to anyone.  We will have to assume that what his mother is saying is true.  Has the wife spoken out?  I would think if he told his deepest heart's secrets, it would be to her.  She was his high school sweetheart.  Here's a snippet from a Newsweek article. 


He joined the service just after a honeymoon to Bora Bora with his high-school sweetheart, Marie. He and a younger brother, Kevin, slipped off to enlist in Denver, where they could avoid publicity. Kevin, who gave up a budding minor-league baseball career, remains in the Army. Pat Tillman wanted no attention, no glory, for joining the rank and file. He didn't want to be singled out from his brothers and sisters in the military, says former Cardinals coach Dave McGinnis. Tillman apparently had made a pact with his family to stay silent about his service, a promise they have kept. They have gathered to grieve inside the comfortable family home in a leafy enclave of San Jose.


His was no simple case of patriotism; Tillman was never known as a flag-waver. His agent, Frank Bauer, told reporters he had suspected that Tillman might quit to teach or to practice law like his father, Patrick Sr., but not to join the military. Snyder, his college coach, said Tillman never used the word patriotism when he explained his plans to enlist. He just seemed to think something had to be done. When players asked why he enlisted, he didn't want to talk about it. McGinnis says there were reasons Pat said he had that he didn't want to divulge, and the coach respected his view and his right to make his own path. Tillman had always been different. When he joined the pros, he rode a bicycle to practice because he didn't own a car. He refused to buy a cell phone. A sports publicist at Arizona State once described him as a surfer dude.


It seems his mother decided the pact no longer had any merit.  Personally, I see another Cindy Sheehan, disobeying her son's wishes. 


Prayer vigil for our nation
I posted this on the Faith board but I also wanted to post it here just in case...

The North American Mission Board has started a prayer vigil for our nation before the election. If you want to participate there is a sign up and prayer guide at

http://ilivevalues.com/prayer

It's 40 days of prayer and then 40 hours of prayer at the end. Check it out! I think it will really do some good and if God's people work together and call out to Him together to heal our nation, He said He would hear us and do so!

Have a great day!

God Bless!

p.s. this wasn't meant to start a riot or to have a bunch of people who don't believe in prayer or God to get up in arms, it's just for those who would like to participate, so please don't go there. Thanks!

most pedophiles are found in the nation's
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How many pubs on this forum and in this nation
being a qualified candidate for VP and ready to step into the highest office in the land? This is not just about Palin. This is about a party who expects to be taken seriously in the Congresss, Senate, 2010 and again in 2012. So far, all we have seen these past 2 days is a GOP collective who cannot abandon the witch hunt and mob stalking of Obama long enough to address their own shortcomings.

The presumption on the part of these folks that they should be taken seriously by anyone except themselves in view of the fact that they can turn a blind eye to this kind of basic deficit in their party and the judgment of their leaders is LUDICROUS.

Palin may not be a front burner issue for much longer, but the shambles that is the republican party will be there for a long time....a very long time, if their own members cannot get off their high horses long enough to take a long, hard look at themselves.
If we claim to be a nation of laws, then
we need to BE a nation of laws. JTBB has said it all and said it well.
With our nation in dire straights
knowing that 79% of my compatriots are feeling optimistic about our future with only 14% expressing pessimism. What's up with that?

For me, its about FINALLY having our long-awaited closure and moving forward instead of backward. I'm sure some will say "it's just a poll" but when I see that sea of humanity gathering with excitement, enthusiasm and joy, with smiles all over their faces, DESPITE the precarious state of our nation, I know in my heart it is much, much more.

Those numbers help me keep things in perspective (especially when reading the posts of this forum) and focused on what's really important. I will take great pride in doing my part, to whatever extent possible, in becoming part of the solution, and not the problem.
Obama and the State of our Nation

Obama was VOTED in, not 'given' the job as President...You know, I cannot believe some of the things tht come from the brains and out of the miouths oif some indivuduals.  This is indeed a historic moment; that I am in agreement with, and I also agree that 170M for the Inaguration was excessive but I will tell you what I find even more excessive - the lying, stealing criminal former administration who ripped of the American people (regardless of political affilation) and basically thummed their noses at us because they felt and still feel they are above the law.  The former president  and his administration didn't give a durn about the economy and reputation of this country  do you truly believe that they cared whether you, your  husbands, sons and other relatives lost their jobs and homes?  Do you really think they were concerned about whether YOU have enough to retire on after dutifully putting away funds in your 401k?  I don't think so.  They gutted us and left us twisting in the wind; and while we worry about how we are going to pay the light bill and have enough to buy grioceries let alone our mortgage - they dine well and live like kings, their families and frineds in their inner circles do not have to concern themselves with such mundane issues...why would they?  Their gods are Franklin, Harrison, Grant, et al.WE PAID FOR IT and will be for years to come.


So much for promoting unity in our nation........... sm
While there may have been an UNOFFICIAL white caucus all these years, I believe the key word is "unofficial." Were blacks denied membership into this caucus based solely on the color of their skin? I rather doubt it, but I am certain that the black population would probably say they were.

I am all for equal opportunities when it comes to education, housing, jobs, etc., for all people regardless of skin color. However, forming special interest groups does nothing to promote equality. Rather it only promotes the reverse racism and devisiveness we are seeing here and will continue to see in the future.
Godless nation....hmmm...(sm)

Now that would be an improvement.  This country was not founded on christianity or any other relgion.  I agree that Obama was downplaying religion, but I also believe that that is exactly what he needed to do.  Bush turned this whole mess into a big "us against them" mentality...."us" meaning christians.  I believe Obama had to negate this idea by downplaying religion, thus deflating the whole notion that we are in a religious war (which is exactly what Bush wanted and subsequently turned it into.)


What I find really interesting is the idea that you insinuate that we MUST be identified as a nation by a specific religion.  Since we are talking about this in the context of politics, exactly why is it you feel we MUST be seen by the world as a "god-fearing" nation?  What would be the benefits of that?


And I might add...his "credit" will put how many more million...
did it say, into the no tax bracket? the words were "the credit will eliminate federal taxes for 10 million low income families. To add to all the others who don't pay taxes. So how is he going to pay for his big government? He will have to raise everyone's taxes....handwriting on the wall.
Yep. Me and about 70 million other Americans.
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If you are talking about the Obama Nation post...
it was written by a black pastor and it is his opinion. He was not hired by nor affiliated with the McCain campaign. There are several black preachers who do not agree with black liberation theology. There was nothing in his post about hatred. He said homosexuality was a sin..it is. He didn't say he hated gays...just that the Bible says the ACT is a sin..and it is. Just like lying, adultery, murder, etc. It does have the distinction of being the one sin that God classified as an "abomination." All the preacher was pointing out was that when Obama said there was nothing specific in the Bible regarding homosexuality...he was wrong. Again...there is no hatred in that post. He just doesn't agree with Obama's philosophy. Where you get hate from that I don't know....did you even read the post?

And by the way....sniping and cattiness must be your strong suit? You seem to excel in that area. Can you just drop the cattiness and sniping (as you asked that I do) and go figure, as you told me to do? Thank you so very much.