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Now, that's very noble of you and if you have never judged..sm

Posted By: Democrat on 2006-06-12
In Reply to: There's really no need to scream. - Lila

anything or anyone good for you. But you are coming to the defense of a woman who not only judges people, but is in a position to spread her ideals to millions. You have shown more vigor on this thread than you have on any of the other threads, and I know it was the F-word or maybe even the word devil that got your blood boiling.

You ask about Ward Churchill, and all I can say is it's too bad he feels the way he does about his country. I can't discount his feelings, but it is too bad he feel that way. He was wrong in indicating that the people in the twin towers somehow deserved what they got, dead wrong.

Now one reason why he doesn't bother me as much as Ann is because she has stereotyped *liberals* of which I fall in that category.


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what about the noble war?
dont they feel COMPELLED to join on their own?
thats real noble of ya why then

did you post a list of inflammatory statements about race out of any context whatsoever.


 


I have judged no one!
Odd that you should make that remark.  It seems you had someone of the Jewish persuasian here on this board, maybe two.  Why did you not ask them?  I see that it was because you were too busy attacking them.  Not a judgement, just an observation.  And again, defending Israel has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether Jews will go to heaven. I don't follow your logic at all.
I commend you on your noble efforts...
but I say again...unless you direct your rhetoric toward the people who obviously are in direct opposition to your way of thinking (terrorists) and changing their minds...ohhh, but you said didn't you...leave it to God to change their minds while you concentrate on your fellow Americans, i.e., preach to the choir, the safe and warm route. That makes any real committment to peace, as you say you have, appear very hollow to me. But, I am sure as with Sarandon, Penn, and the Code Pink ladies, they rather prefer their heads attached to their shoulders and protesting in the comfort of a free country paid for by the blood of patriots, rather than taking their cause to the real enemies of this country. Whereas you have said you don't care if someone cuts your head off...I daresay the above mentioned would not share that sentiment.

And as a side note, Hanoi Jane, in my opinion, should be in a jail cell for treason.

I commend you on your charitable works and have said so before. However, that was not and never has been the basis of the criticism. I have said in posts before that I commend your charitable work, and I have, as I said I would, looked into service dogs for disabled vets. But what I do or do not do is not at issue here, as I am not using it as a badge to tell everyone how good I am or how committed I am. You seem to want to enumerate that for me to somehow take the attention away from the core issue I was trying to address....
...I was talking specifically about the *peace* movement, and why you and others do not take the *peace* movement to the real enemies of peace. Unless of course you believe that your fellow Americans are more an enemy of peace than the terrorists are. Which is probably true...when Democrats when polled 49% say they do not want the surge to succeed and 51% say they are not sure they want the surge to succeed. That says it all in my opinion. All that tells me is that 49% of Democrats polled are antiAmerican and 51% have not as yet decided for America or against her.

Have a good day.
Looking out for your fellow Americans, how noble sm

Did you figure out how to spell McCain yet?


Weighed, yes. Judged
We are here at witnesses, not judges. 
yep, and you SHOULD be judged by the friends that
nm
Hey Libby, where's all the noble rich people?
Sure is a shame all those rich guys can't spring a buck for the effort. And where is the Republican base? - the pro-war screamers can't seem to put their money where their mouths are any more than they can bring themselves to enlist for the cause. Let somebody else do it, seems to be their motto!
Didn't He also say judge not lest ye be judged? nm
.
He most certainly will be judged differently -- less harshly!
It rode into the white house on the race card and for a while no one will look past the historical fact that he is the first African-American president.  Who cares if he has experience -- he makes pretty speeches and he is an articulate black man.   If you are not an Obama supporter and you are critical of his policitics and changes, that same race card will be thrown at you! 
Jesus also said "judge not lest ye be judged and let he who is without sin.....sm
cast the first stone. I am not a liberal, I am just not so rash and harsh when it comes to picking and choosing what liberty and freedon is, sometimes you DO have to put your own personal religious beliefs second, stand back, and try to play Solomon.....I am just concerned with true equity, I do not have to carry a banner or an "agenda", only a cherished belief system in my heart and soul, which I practice not only with righteousness, if that is what you want to call it, but with love, mercy, compassion, and forgiveness, very Christ-like beliefs, as I remember Scripture.
Hey, Bush, sign your daughters up for Iraq, such a *noble* cause

Like George did, the new generation of Bushes let other Americans do the dying for them.


Bush has derided the mothers and fathers of our nation's war dead for not wanting any more young American men and women to die in Iraq. We owe them [the already killed and wounded soldiers] something, he told veterans in Salt Lake City (even though his administration tried to shortchange the veterans agency by $1.5 billion, according to Maureen Dowd). We will finish the task that they gave their lives for.







BUSH EXTENDED FAMILY PHOTO taken January 20, 2005

Yet, not one -- not one -- of any of Bush's children or his nieces and nephews have volunteered for service in any branch of the military or volunteered to serve in any capacity in Iraq. Not one of them has felt the cause was noble enough to put his or her life on the line.


Here is the full list of the children of Bush and his siblings who have chosen to let other young men and women -- mostly poor, rural and minorities -- die for them, because they have no desire to die for George W. Bush's alleged noble cause (assuming an eligible age of 17 with parental consent to join the military):


Military Service Eligible Children of George W. Bush
Jenna Bush
Barbara Bush


Military Service Eligible Children of Jeb Bush
George P. Bush
Noelle Bush
John Ellis Bush Jr.


Military Service Eligible Children of Neil Bush
Lauren Bush
Pierce Bush


Military Service Eligible Children of Marvin Bush
Marshall Bush


Military Service Eligible Children of Dorothy Bush Koch
Samuel LeBlond
Ellie LeBlond


Here is the complete chart:







Furthermore, not one of George's siblings served in the military when they were eligible, and Bush got a cozy stateside position in the Texas Air National Guard to avoid risking his life in another noble war, Vietnam.


Why do George W. Bush, his siblings, and their children think that the war is noble enough for kids like Casey Sheehan to die in, but not them?


Sign this petition, demanding that the Bush sibling children serve in George's noble war or he must bring the troops home now. Because if it's not noble enough for the Bush family to risk their lives fighting for, it's just a disastrous graveyard for poor and middle class Americans, dug deep to advance Bush's partisan agenda.


Bush can be brave with other people's children, because he has nothing personally to risk.


Bush tell your daughters they are needed in Iraq for a *noble* cause
Oh really, going off the deep end, LOL..by asking Bush and his daughters and other young people in his family to sign up for duty in Iraq since the Bush family thinks it is so important and the *Noble* thing to do?  And Im going off the deep end, LOL.  You are so silly sometimes in your posts.  I see nothing wrong in asking the chickenhawk warmongers to urge their children to join up..after all our country is fighting a *war on terrorism*..or..wait a minute..what is the new saying the WH is throwing out there..*a global war on extremists*..or....oh geez..I need to start writing down the reasons for our blood shed in Iraq..I cant remember all the reasons why we pre-emptively invaded Iraq..Cant keep up with the spin cycle of the WH..
Reasons Why Chavez Is Up For Noble Peace Prize

An article published in VHeadline.com on November 26
last year, headlined Venezuela's President Hugo
Chavez Frias proposed for the 2005 Nobel Peace Prize aroused great interest


Since that piece was published, Chavez has continued
his humanitarian projects, the most recent of which
are extending Mission Miracle in alliance with Cuba to
correct blindness and sight disorders to the whole of
the American continent, including the US and the
Caribbean. He has also offered crude oil, gasoline and
heating oil at preferential, financed rates to smaller
Caribbean countries, as well as Uruguay and Paraguay
which are struggling with the sky high price of
energy.

The improvement in cash flow of these countries
generated by the financing aspect at 1% per year,
allows their governments to use this surplus to invest
in social programs.

This initiative has also taken into account poor
communities, schools, hospitals, old peoples homes
facing a predicted brutally cold winter in the United
States ... part of this program includes donations of
heating oil as well as financing part of the
deliveries from CITGO, a 100%-owned US-based
Venezuelan company based in Houston with 8 refineries
delivering to over 14,000 gasoline stations. Pilot
projects will be underway in Chicago and Boston as of
October 14.

As per the Nobel Peace Prize website the 2004 winner
was Wangari Maathai of Kenya for her contribution to
sustainable development, democracy and peace.

If these three qualities are key to winning the Nobel
Peace Prize then Chavez has all these in abundance ...
and more. He must be the world's leading democrat
having been to the polls 9 times since 1998. He
promotes peace by asking for troops out of Afghanistan
and Iraq, so that these sovereign nations can exercise
self-determination and define their own path in the
future.

Other accomplishments, which have been pushed by
Chavez' personal leadership in Venezuela are the
Social Missions, all grouped under the humanitarian
banner of Mision Cristo (Christ's Mission). The most
important of these, Mision Robinson has taught 1.4
million Venezuelans to read and write; Mision Barrio
Adentro (Neighborhood Within) offers free primary
healthcare in the poor areas and is now reaching 14
million Venezuelans out of a population of
approximately 25 million; Mision Mercal sells cheap
staple foods and has impacted more than half the
population at the time of writing.

Chavez, however, is up against some very stiff
competition including Colin Powell (for his efforts to
end the 21-year civil war in Sudan); the ex-governor
of Illinois, George Ryan (for his campaign to abolish
the death sentence in the US); Israeli Mordechai
Vanunu (for denouncing the existence of nuclear
weapons in his country); the Japanese Hidankyo group
(survivors of the US' atomic bombs dropped on
Hiroshima and Nagasaki).


That's how I feel. How dare the victims be judged.sm
while we sit cumfy in front of our PCs and eat popcorn. That kind of stuff makes me SICK!


Will Obama be judged differently because he's black?

I never gave this a thought. The previous incumbent was so poor and Palin scared the bejesus out of me and McCain isn't that much of a maverick and doesn't know squat economically that I never let race enter into my voting decision. For me it was an obvious choice. (Not my first choice but by Nov. my only choice.)


If you read through this cnn.com article, you'll read that blacks who were innovative do feel they're or were held to different standards.


The very fact that this article is worthy of being printed surprises me.


=========================================


(CNN) -- Just days before he was sworn in, President Obama was giving his daughters a tour of the Lincoln Memorial when one of them pointed to a copy of Abraham Lincoln's second inaugural address carved into the wall.


Obama's 7-year-old daughter, Sasha, told her father that Lincoln's speech was really long. Would he have to give a speech as long? Obama's answer was completed by his older daughter, 10-year-old Malia.


"I said, 'Actually, that one is pretty short. Mine may even be a little longer,' " Obama told CNN recently. "At which point, Malia turns to me and says, 'First African-American president, better be good.' "


The story is light-hearted, but it touches on a delicate question: Will people hold Obama to a different standard because he is the first African-American president?


Americans appear split by race on that answer. According to a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll, 53 percent of blacks say the American public will hold Obama to a higher standard than past presidents because he is black. Most whites -- 61 percent -- say Obama's race will not matter in how he will be judged.


The question divided several people who were racial pioneers themselves.


Alexander Jefferson was one of the first blacks allowed to become a fighter pilot. He was a member of the Tuskegee Airmen, a group of black pilots who escorted bombers in World War II.


"We had to be twice as good to be average," he says.


Obama won't face the same pressures he did because his presidential predecessor was so inept, Jefferson says.


"No, the world is ready for him," he says. "The [George W.] Bush debacle was so depressing."


Jefferson was shot down by ground fire on his 19th mission and spent a year in German prison camps. He wrote about his POW experiences in "Red Tail Captured, Red Tail Free: Memoirs of a Tuskegee Airman and POW."


Jefferson says he dealt with the pressures of being a racial pioneer by drawing on the strength of black leaders who opened doors for him.


"I sit on the backs of everyone who came before me," says Jefferson, who attended Obama's inauguration with other Tuskegee Airmen.


Jefferson says he would have emotionally imploded if he'd thought too much about the pressures of representing all blacks and dealing with the racism he encountered when he returned home to a segregated America after the war.


"I did what I had to do so I didn't go stark-raving mad," he says. "There wasn't all this self-analysis and back and forth. I was too damn busy with a wife, a child and a mortgage."


Michele Andrea Bowen couldn't avoid a bout of constant self-analysis. She was one of the first African-American students admitted to a doctorate program in history at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.


"I know Obama is going to be held to a different standard," says Bowen, author of "Up at the College" and books such as "Holy Ghost Corner," which celebrate black faith and culture.


Bowen says she faced relentless scrutiny, and so will Obama.


"You know that it was hard for you to get in it, and you know they're watching you," Bowen says. "And you know that they're judging you by a critical standard that's sometimes not fair."


Bowen says a white classmate, her partner in dissertation, once confided to her that he received the same grades as she did, even though he knew his work was inferior.


"It toughened me up," Bowen says. "It can give you headaches and stomachaches. I learned you have to be thankful that God blessed you with that opportunity. At some point, you stop worrying, and you trust God."


'Would Bush have been president if he were black?'


Perhaps Obama will avoid those stomachaches because of the massive good will his election has generated. But that could change quickly if Obama makes a controversial decision or a mistake, says Andrew Rojecki, co-author of "The Black Image in the White Mind: Media and Race in America."


Rojecki says people who say Obama isn't going to be held to a different standard because of his skin color didn't pay attention to his campaign.


He says Obama had to deal with challenges that other candidates didn't have to face. Obama's run for office was almost ended by his association with his minister, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, whose incendiary sermons shocked many.


But Republican presidential nominee John McCain's relationship with the Rev. John Hagee, who was accused of anti-Semitism, never threatened to end his campaign, Rojecki says.


"Obama was held responsible for what his minister said, and McCain was associated with Hagee, but somehow that didn't stick," says Rojecki, a communication professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago.


Even people who regard themselves as the most progressive, open-minded supporters may subconsciously hold Obama to a different standard, Rojecki says.


He says several academic studies show that it often takes people longer to associate good qualities to blacks when different faces are flashed across a screen.


"They have these stereotypes buried in their subconscious," he says. "That's why people cross the street when they see a young black man. They'd rather not take a chance."


Obama virtually had to be perfect to overcome those stereotypes, Rojecki says. He was the first black Editor of the Harvard Law Review, he has an Ivy League-educated wife and adorable daughters, and he ran a great campaign.


"He's the perfect symbol of achievement," Rojecki says.


White candidates for office don't have to have an uninterrupted life of achievement to be considered for the Oval Office, Rojecki says.


"If George W. Bush were black, do you think he would be president?" Rojecki says.


Jefferson, the Tuskegee Airman, says Obama should have at least one consolation. The problems he confronts now are so immense that anyone, even someone who was considered by many to be perfect, would not be able to escape withering judgment.


"If the president was Jesus Christ, '' Jefferson says, "they would still debate if he's qualified."


 


Isn't amazing that you judged, sentenced, and stereotyped someone just from one Bible verse they
posted. My, you must be clairvoyant. And immensely proud as well. You really told her, didn't you. You should never quote the Bible as though you now what you are saying. The spirit in which you quote it negates any meaning YOU might give it. You actually just proved what that poster said to you.