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So tell me - what other atrocity on US soil has happened

Posted By: jm on 2009-01-12
In Reply to: What!!! - ditzil

since the towers. I can't think of a single one.

America is safer because of the policies in place.

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I thank God Bush stopped having war on US soil after 911! nm
x
Interestingly, other atrocities on US soil...(sm)

since 9/11 have not come from the usual suspects, but rather from our own government.  I'm going to go with the patriot act that pretty much killed the constitution, an unjust war that has not only killed numerous Americans but has also destroyed any credibility of the US, and then there's Gitmo and torture, all perpetrated right here in the good ol USA.


If those aren't atrocities, I don't know what is.

I've already experienced martial law on American soil

(I think the article is over the top, and wishful thinking by the author, BTW)


So, after Katrina in Gulfport, MS, here's what martial law was like:


1.  When the troops moved in, they took over and started ordering us around like cattle.  Offered to shoot us for even trying to ask 'em a question.  Rude and mean to everyone.  The skies were full of helicopters - felt like living in a MASH rerun.  Jeeps raced up and down my street at double the speed limit, nearly running me over if I stuck a toe in the road.  Nobody lifted a finger to help me clear the debris in my yard - in fact they were irritated that I dared set foot outside at all.


2.  They commandeered any resource that was left, for the powers that be.  They took over every airport, every gas station, every Walmart still standing, every hotel or restaurant that had a generator, jammed all the phone lines (and yes, folks, MINE STILL WORKED until the troops arrived, then suddenly it did not).  All that stuff was appropriated for whoever they deemed important - the county officials, the media, rubbernecking senators they flew in.  Woe unto you if you tried to get a drop of gas, a cold drink, or speak to anyone about why you could not - a gun gets stuck in your face.


3.  Curfew makes you feel like a little kid when its given by your parents.  It makes you feel like a criminal when its set by your government.  Yeah, they offered to shoot me because I forgot something in my car and tried to leave my house to go get it.  They had roadblocks on every corner.  I worked at a hospital nights and daily had to show my ID just to get to work and back.  People that didn't have a good reason to be out and about got turned back and threatened.  They roadblocked all the highway exits to our town and turned away anybody that came offering help - saying it wasn't needed.  Actually, they just weren't organized enough to accept donations or direct would-be heros where they could help - so they just turned them away, rudely.  If you wanted to leave town after Katrina, forget it - they had taken all the gas away and didn't want us on the roads.


4.  They sectioned off parts of our town with barbed wire and told us it was unsafe.  Sorry, I walked through it right after the storm and knew it was no worse than the rest of the town.  They threw residents that had survived the storm off their property and wouldn't let them come back without an armed escort and government permission.  Sometimes they bulldozed their houses flat before letting them come back into the protected zone.  All in the name of protecting them.


5.  The majority of the soliders raced around acting important.  Never saw any lift a finger to help anyone in any type of distress.  I guess their orders were to stand around and wait for more orders, while intimidating us (obviously that's what the confused, scared, and needful survivors required from their government?).  They also took over our local radio and had them tell us to just sit isolated in our houses and wait for help, and discouraged us from helping one another or traveling across town to help a friend.  Nobody ever knocked on our door and asked us if we needed anything - so if I'd obeyed orders and believed help was coming I would have waited until I died.  I suppose they wanted us to just sit there and die, so we'd be less hassle.


6.  The only help we received were from average citizens brave enough to argue their way through the military road blocks. Not the government.  Their function was to take over, snatch whatever comforts still existed, and isolate and scare us.


I was shocked I could be treated the way I was on American soil, and I realized it can happen anywhere to anyone, if and when the powers that be decide to take over an area for whatever reason they deem necessary.  I suddenly realized this happens all over the world in wartime, when our troops move in to occupy their country - and I realized I felt like those people must have felt at the sight of the soldiers.  Most people just don't think it can happen here - well trust me, it can and it does.  Maybe next time, in your neighborhood.

I've already experienced martial law on American soil

(I think the article is over the top, and wishful thinking by the author, BTW)


So, after Katrina in Gulfport, MS, here's what martial law was like:


1.  When the troops moved in, they took over and started ordering us around like cattle.  Offered to shoot us for even trying to ask 'em a question.  Rude and mean to everyone.  The skies were full of helicopters - felt like living in a MASH rerun.  Jeeps raced up and down my street at double the speed limit, nearly running me over if I stuck a toe in the road.  Nobody lifted a finger to help me clear the debris in my yard - in fact they were irritated that I dared set foot outside at all.


2.  They commandeered any resource that was left, for the powers that be.  They took over every airport, every gas station, every Walmart still standing, every hotel or restaurant that had a generator, jammed all the phone lines (and yes, folks, MINE STILL WORKED until the troops arrived, then suddenly it did not).  All that stuff was appropriated for whoever they deemed important - the county officials, the media, rubbernecking senators they flew in.  Woe unto you if you tried to get a drop of gas, a cold drink, or speak to anyone about why you could not - a gun gets stuck in your face.


3.  Curfew makes you feel like a little kid when its given by your parents.  It makes you feel like a criminal when its set by your government.  Yeah, they offered to shoot me because I forgot something in my car and tried to leave my house to go get it.  They had roadblocks on every corner.  I worked at a hospital nights and daily had to show my ID just to get to work and back.  People that didn't have a good reason to be out and about got turned back and threatened.  They roadblocked all the highway exits to our town and turned away anybody that came offering help - saying it wasn't needed.  Actually, they just weren't organized enough to accept donations or direct would-be heros where they could help - so they just turned them away, rudely.  If you wanted to leave town after Katrina, forget it - they had taken all the gas away and didn't want us on the roads.


4.  They sectioned off parts of our town with barbed wire and told us it was unsafe.  Sorry, I walked through it right after the storm and knew it was no worse than the rest of the town.  They threw residents that had survived the storm off their property and wouldn't let them come back without an armed escort and government permission.  Sometimes they bulldozed their houses flat before letting them come back into the protected zone.  All in the name of protecting them.


5.  The majority of the soliders raced around acting important.  Never saw any lift a finger to help anyone in any type of distress.  I guess their orders were to stand around and wait for more orders, while intimidating us (obviously that's what the confused, scared, and needful survivors required from their government?).  They also took over our local radio and had them tell us to just sit isolated in our houses and wait for help, and discouraged us from helping one another or traveling across town to help a friend.  Nobody ever knocked on our door and asked us if we needed anything - so if I'd obeyed orders and believed help was coming I would have waited until I died.  I suppose they wanted us to just sit there and die, so we'd be less hassle.


6.  The only help we received were from average citizens brave enough to argue their way through the military road blocks. Not the government.  Their function was to take over, snatch whatever comforts still existed, and isolate and scare us.


I was shocked I could be treated the way I was on American soil, and I realized it can happen anywhere to anyone, if and when the powers that be decide to take over an area for whatever reason they deem necessary.  I suddenly realized this happens all over the world in wartime, when our troops move in to occupy their country - and I realized I felt like those people must have felt at the sight of the soldiers.  Most people just don't think it can happen here - well trust me, it can and it does.  Maybe next time, in your neighborhood.

I've already experienced martial law on American soil

(I think the article is over the top, and wishful thinking by the author, BTW)


So, after Katrina in Gulfport, MS, here's what martial law was like:


1.  When the troops moved in, they took over and started ordering us around like cattle.  Offered to shoot us for even trying to ask 'em a question.  Rude and mean to everyone.  The skies were full of helicopters - felt like living in a MASH rerun.  Jeeps raced up and down my street at double the speed limit, nearly running me over if I stuck a toe in the road.  Nobody lifted a finger to help me clear the debris in my yard - in fact they were irritated that I dared set foot outside at all.


2.  They commandeered any resource that was left, for the powers that be.  They took over every airport, every gas station, every Walmart still standing, every hotel or restaurant that had a generator, jammed all the phone lines (and yes, folks, MINE STILL WORKED until the troops arrived, then suddenly it did not).  All that stuff was appropriated for whoever they deemed important - the county officials, the media, rubbernecking senators they flew in.  Woe unto you if you tried to get a drop of gas, a cold drink, or speak to anyone about why you could not - a gun gets stuck in your face.


3.  Curfew makes you feel like a little kid when its given by your parents.  It makes you feel like a criminal when its set by your government.  Yeah, they offered to shoot me because I forgot something in my car and tried to leave my house to go get it.  They had roadblocks on every corner.  I worked at a hospital nights and daily had to show my ID just to get to work and back.  People that didn't have a good reason to be out and about got turned back and threatened.  They roadblocked all the highway exits to our town and turned away anybody that came offering help - saying it wasn't needed.  Actually, they just weren't organized enough to accept donations or direct would-be heros where they could help - so they just turned them away, rudely.  If you wanted to leave town after Katrina, forget it - they had taken all the gas away and didn't want us on the roads.


4.  They sectioned off parts of our town with barbed wire and told us it was unsafe.  Sorry, I walked through it right after the storm and knew it was no worse than the rest of the town.  They threw residents that had survived the storm off their property and wouldn't let them come back without an armed escort and government permission.  Sometimes they bulldozed their houses flat before letting them come back into the protected zone.  All in the name of protecting them.


5.  The majority of the soliders raced around acting important.  Never saw any lift a finger to help anyone in any type of distress.  I guess their orders were to stand around and wait for more orders, while intimidating us (obviously that's what the confused, scared, and needful survivors required from their government?).  They also took over our local radio and had them tell us to just sit isolated in our houses and wait for help, and discouraged us from helping one another or traveling across town to help a friend.  Nobody ever knocked on our door and asked us if we needed anything - so if I'd obeyed orders and believed help was coming I would have waited until I died.  I suppose they wanted us to just sit there and die, so we'd be less hassle.


6.  The only help we received were from average citizens brave enough to argue their way through the military road blocks. Not the government.  Their function was to take over, snatch whatever comforts still existed, and isolate and scare us.


I was shocked I could be treated the way I was on American soil, and I realized it can happen anywhere to anyone, if and when the powers that be decide to take over an area for whatever reason they deem necessary.  I suddenly realized this happens all over the world in wartime, when our troops move in to occupy their country - and I realized I felt like those people must have felt at the sight of the soldiers.  Most people just don't think it can happen here - well trust me, it can and it does.  Maybe next time, in your neighborhood.

Oh yes, I believe Saddam is capable of any atrocity, chemical warfare, biological warfare, etc......
But it has been proven that the American people were misled and lied to, the workers who searched diligently for WMDs found none at all at the time we charged into Iraq and started this multi-trillion dollar nightmare. Are we going to rush into every nation on earth if we suspectthey have weapons we do not like? At that time, the WMD question in Iraq was a reuse to charge in and once again try secure the oil there for George's friends with ton's of interests in Middle East oil. I am not the one kidding myself, if you want to re-write history to try and defend George Bush, you will have one heck of a problem.
What happened?
Oh geez..what happened?  Where are all the attack posts??  They are gone!!  Or maybe Im just hallucinating this morning, LOL. OMG!!  Now we can have soulful, fruitful, progressive and caring debates and ideas and maybe even possibly make a difference, without being attacked on everything we post.  Halleluiah!!
What I think happened
I believe the other short, nasty post was deleted and in doing so it automatically deleted the other posts below it, which unfortunately included yours. 
Yes, let's. What happened to all that
You used the "little people" reference to illustrate how elitist my concerns are. Those were not Obama's words, they were yours. You are not as good at spin as you think you are. Your choice to skip over the points about what KIND of executive experiences is another casual dismissal of issues far to vital to ignore, as you evidently would have us do. Those concerns will not be repeated here since you are trying to side-step them, as republicans inevitably do when faced with intellectual challenge, except to say that CEOs are executives, but keep themselves far out of touch with the "little people" beneath them. Sarah what's-her-name has also demonstrated a tendency to be a bit out of touch when it comes to using her office to elevate herself from ethics maid to VP.

Be impressed by that December 4, 2006 to now executive title. You obviously cannot cite any substance behind the title and neither can she. Most of us will not be voting for a title or a label, despite your party's best efforts.

Side-stepped everything about the token selection and Stepford Wife delegation, I see. So much for celebrating women's progress in the political arena.

First chair? Hopefully not (God help us if she ever is). Fact: That possibility is considerably more real under McCain (especially over an 8-year term) because of his age. Again, you have side-stepped the difference between the experience of Biden and the absence of same in what's-her-name. So much for being ready to lead the country. No problem. Says all it need to. 80% approval rating unheard of? You got that right. Nobody beyond Alaska has heard about it and it does not mean anything in view of the issue I raised that you are ignoring.

If you want to continue to make an utter fool of yourself by insisting her experience matches Obama's, go for it. I won't need to answer that lunacy again anytime soon. I'll let the media take care of that one for me and besides, rational minds will prevail over this lame claim.
What ever happened to
all those scathing protests over "redistribution of wealth?"  How do all these bail-outs factor into that line of thinking? 
I don't know how this happened!!! =)
ms - here's my political profile from the test you posted. Yes, I was very surprised! The liberal part must be hold-overs from my college days! =)

Overall: 75% Conservative, 25% Liberal

Social Issues: 50% Conservative, 50% Liberal

Personal Responsibility: 100% Conservative, 0% Liberal

Fiscal Issues: 75% Conservative, 25% Liberal

Ethics: 50% Conservative, 50% Liberal

Defense and Crime: 100% Conservative, 0% Liberal
and what happened?
did someone put a stop to it???
What happened to sam?

I'm just curious.  I can barely stomach the politics board, so I almost never read the political posts due to the O-Love-A-Thon and the pure vitreol, which does nobody any good. 


I noticed that sam took off.  I don't blame him/her, either.  I simply wondered.


As for Ann Coulter, her brilliance and success literally drives the libs nuts.  I have her books, too, just short of her latest one, "Guilty."


I'm not here to start a bunch of %(#$*, but I just wondered where sam went.  My guess is that he/she got sick of the crap and left.  I couldn't figure why he/she continued the fightl  I know I won't go there.

I know what happened...LOL..(sm)

You responded to a post that said "what makes you think we don't" when you probably should have, or meant to respond to the comment above that.  It went south after that.  Been there and done that.  I hate it when that happens....LOL.

What happened to us.

You always hear about people in the old days who worked from run rise to run set to make enough money, etc. to support themselves and their kids.  They wouldn't take charity or handouts.  They took pride in working and earning what they got whether it was enough or not.  Now there are just too many people with their hands out asking for a free ride. 


As far as I am concerned.....if you are receiving welfare and you refuse to work even if it isn't a great job......you lose your welfare.  I have no problem contributing to someone who is at least trying to work.  However, I do have a problem with giving money to lazy bums who would rather mooch off other people than to do a days honest work.

This is what happened
Someone posted that the Capt had been freed. Someone replied to that "Thank you President Obama. Job well done". We're all thinking what????? I didn't know that the O was part of the Navy Seal team that went in and rescued the Captain. Why would you be thanking the O but not the Navy Seals, not saying they are hero's that laid down their lives to rescue the Captain. No they attribute it all to the O. And yet on the other side of the coin they wouldn't give GW the same "congrats" when he gave the orders to have the girl from West Virginia rescued, or when he have the orders to have the hostages in Iran rescued, or any of the other orders he gave the okay on for the Navy Seals to rescue the people. But even then, as I don't congratulate the O because he wasn't part of the Navy Seals that risked their life to save the Captain, I would also not congratulate Bush on his orders to rescue other hostages.

The congrats goes to the Navy Seals. The ones who lay their lives down to rescue people they don't even know. When you give your life and are prepared to die to save another human being, they are the real hero's. But the poster that congratulated the O for "a job well done", didn't even mention anything about the ones who actually did the saving.

I don't get you guys...what is it you want. We all know you think he is the messiah, the anointed one, the one who can do no wrong. You will always be the first to praise "oh looky the stock market went up 8.5 points - way to go O, you're just the best president ever", but when the stock market drops something like 150 points you stay silent, and then be the ones to point out that the stock market goes up and down and it's not his fault. I sit and think...uh hellloooooo...you just congratuated him for the stock market going up but it's not his fault it goes down?????? (which by the way I don't believe whether it goes up or down he has anything to do with, but evidently you people do - that is of course only when it goes up).

All you want to see on this board is praises for him and rejoicing and singing hallelujah's to his name. You will never ever say anything when something bad is happening. Just praises.

Yes, I know he will make mistakes, and I know he will do some good. But not admitting when something bad is going on (like tripling our deficit within 90 days - and no, not a fault of Bush's, the O did this all by himself with his pen and paper, and with the help of a crat congress. You won't admit he is breaking his campaign promises. You won't say anything when we hear he is telling other countries that they can have our jobs because we don't want them anyways. You won't say anything when he bows to another countries leader (the American president is suppose to bow to nobody - but on top of that if he is suppose to bow to anyone, certainly not the country like that - I mean for pete's sake, he didn't even bow to the Queen of England). You may say you don't think he's perfect, but you certainly don't speak up when something he has done is wrong.

The "I know he will make mistakes - what man has never made mistakes?", etc, etc. sounds like your trying to get people to feel sorry for him and maybe you think it aids in your cause of the "oh poor O, everyone is picking on him". Well you know what, when people stand up and say "I'm mad as he!! and I'm not going to take it anymore". When you finally will speak up and say "hey, wait a minute, I voted for him but this is not what he said he was going to do" (which is what has happened to me. Yeah, you bet I get pretty ticked off when I have been lied to and I voted for him believing one thing and then realized he suckered us a good one. That's what's the really upsetting thing. Fooled me once shame on you, fool me twice - well there just won't be a twice.

"Why can't ya'll just give him a chance"??????? He has had his chance and he is blowing it.
It disappeared? I wonder how that happened.
nm
More importantly, what ever happened to the USA?

A Chinese bank is opening up in the USA.  Bush at one time had wanted to sell "security" of our ports to an Arab country.  We have two citizen heroes rotting away in jail because they did their job of protecting our border with Mexico and were forced to kill a criminal in the process of doing that job. 


If you open this link, you will see the staggering number of "American" companies that are no longer owned by Americans.  http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/07/10/american-icons-owned-abroad-falling-dollar-cheaper-u-s-assets/


As far as the redistribution of wealth, below I have copied and pasted what I feel is, by far, the most interesting article I've read on that topic.  In my opinion, a "trickle up" policy needs to be implemented as soon as possible because the "trickle down" theory has not worked.



Closing Time


Jim Kirwan
12-10-8


 








Since Reagan we've been trying to make "Trickle-Down economics" work: For those to whom promises were made, Trickle- Down has been, not just a failure but it has been the major vehicle responsible for the most massive redistribution of wealth, from the population that has worked toward something, to those that wanted everything. Never has there been such a near total transfer of wealth in the history of the planet. This criminal-conspiracy has done what it was created to do ­ and it must be terminated with extreme prejudice, immediately, if we are to survive.
 
When 'Trickle-Down' was the political-priority of the day, the high-point in prosperity was to become a 'Millionaire.' Forbes magazine tracked those lucky few very carefully. Today Forbes 500 no longer bothers with 'millionaires' because there are just far too many of them-they have become inconsequential. Thanks to "Trickle-Down economics today the heavy-hitters financially are 'Billionaires' and above: which is all you need to know about how well this hostile-takeover of the American economy has worked.
 
The problem that this transfer of wealth has created has resulted in the Federalization-of-Privatization: As a result we are all facing another huge round of trickle-down economics, but this time it's being cloaked in a series of stealth-protected measures. These new tactics are commonly called BAILOUT or RESCUE packages, and nothing about their origins or their purposes has been made clear to those of us that will be forced to pay tens of trillions for our own destruction.
 
What's happening is this: First they used compromised laws to squash diversity and opinion within the entire field of communications, under Clinton and Powell's kid that ran the FCC. Together, competition was eliminated and monstrous empires were created that absorbed their competition outright. Once this happened, the entire edifice for total information management was in-place, using household names to lie to the public every minute of every day, whether on television or in print-with very few exceptions. With that completed effort it was easy to move directly onto the openly fascist path to WAR on a variety of fronts, supported and applauded by the very organs that were supposed to question whatever government does, on behalf of the people, as part of their constitutionally protected-jobs as so-called journalists. With the constitution gone, and the only allegiance worthy of that name having become the private for-profit motives that greed and arrogance breeds; in the sewers of those ruined lives where these so-called leaders "live," the current outcome is all that we should have ever expected from these new-age barbarians. (1)
 
We're still in the Twilight Zone; where Obama is just another man waiting to start a job, except that he seemingly can't wait to begin so he formulates their plans and then rushes to the nearest podium to expound upon the glories of what these programs (or pogroms) are pointedly designed to do; for them and 'to' us. And the sheep wait patiently to board the trains that will take them to the slaughterhouse.
 
The larger picture has or course remained hidden from the general public. What continues to go unnoticed is the number of profligate cities and towns, not to mention states that will have to be bailed out by the feds. Once this begins to happen, 'the rights' of states will disappear completely along with any independence from the federal-government. Remember the formula upon which bailouts are based: The crucial money provided is conditioned upon a federal "ownership stake" in everything that needs the money, and when this is applied to the states then all they have left to trade with is their broken-economies and their people who shall both become the property of the federal government that is today a private-corporation that serves only the privately-owned central banks and by extension the multi-national corporations. This is about to happen now to several states, including California; the sixth largest economy in the world. (2)
 
'BTW the "corporation" mentioned above has been bankrupt since 1933, and the result of that bankruptcy is that the USA went into receivership to the privately-owned Federal Reserve. The Dictator was correct when he said: "The constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper," he was actually telling the truth. It was probably the only truthful statement he ever made in nearly eight years.
The owners have simply allowed us to believe we have a constitution. Every law, code and statute world wide is based on the Uniform Commercial Code and has been in place since 1950. Of course no one in a position of power ever bothered to mention this to us did they? One must understand the UCC to understand how and why so many have gotten away with so much: And now they are upping the ante, to take it all.'
 
This explains why every courtroom and every government building has flags hanging that really are not American flags even though they appear to be. Each of them has gold/yellow fringe around them. They give us smoke and mirrors that mask what they created, which allows them to continue to say 'we have a constitution and a democracy.' Of course America was created to be a constitutional republic, not a democracy. There is a huge difference between a democracy and a constitutional republic. The rights of the few and the many, can only be protected under a Republic, while under a democracy, the majority rules-absolutely.
 
There are however a few places that are still holding out against the one-world-order and the New Barbarians. Among these are Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, parts of Pakistan, possibly Iran and certainly Greece.
"Socialist leader George Papandreou called for early elections, saying the conservative government could no longer defend the public from rioters.
 
The government has a single-seat majority in the 300-member Parliament and opposition parties blame hands-off policing for encouraging the worst rioting the country has seen in decades.
 
'The government cannot handle this crisis and has lost the trust of the Greek people,' Papandreou said. 'The best thing it can do is resign and let the people find a solution ... we will protect the public.'" (3)
 
If America is to survive then we must stop this wholesale giveaway of everything that was once part of this society. The relationship between profits and earnings must be freed from the stranglehold that management has created in order to siphon off all the profits and wreck the companies they work for. In addition, the idea that government can function in any capacity as a major stakeholder in any form of private enterprise beggars the imagination far beyond any real possibility for saving anything; except the criminals and their enterprises that created this "crisis" in the first place. The 'economy' must be based on a bottom-up profit motive, based on the real wages of those that create the wealth for those at the top - and not upon the insanity that it is now! People must come first, and the corporations must be controlled at every level by the public!
 
There is no longer anything like responsibility anywhere in government or the private sector to anything except what can continue to be stolen, either by flawed and fraudulent bailouts, or through the strong-arm tactics that are currently acting "under- cover of law" and that are neither legal nor functional. Obama in this venue is neither a savior, nor a friend to the people that supposedly 'elected' him-he is just the instrument of the new global-government engine designed to finish the job and to close down this nation, once and for all! Americans need to watch what happens in Greece and follow their example, if there is to be an America to fight over in the future.
 
In the meanwhile, here is some of what's happened here already.
 
"With the focus on privatization, public-private partnerships, (dismantling local control); anyone with any common sense about them can see that; incrementally the power of the people is being given over to corporate control through various venues. Once upon a time we were subjects, then citizens, and now consumers. Everything is for sale. TV 'programming' is set up to entice "consumers" through the 3000 daily ads to buy, buy, buy! Utilities-waste- nursing homes, and even the people's water (once in local control) is open to the highest bidder or those with the most influence. In "public private partnerships or privatization" (despite the lofty high pitch sales rhetoric) means only one thing, a plundering of the people's money. Profits take precedence over any and all health or environmental concerns. It's pigs at the trough time, locally- state wise and nationally. This is not just happening in one or two isolated places but across the nation. Because we are narrowly focused (many times only one newspaper) parochially; we have little to no idea of the larger picture and what is being set in place.
 
As I read of various happenings across the nation; I am struck with the usage of terms and language being introduced into the public arena; with no explanation as to their meaning (if any). I asked a state politician a few years back what this terminology we're hearing lately of, "regional or regionalization" meant? He brushed the whole thing aside as inconsequential and told me that is was of no importance. Obviously, for me, that was an unsatisfactory answer. Most especially, since on the local level, I could see that it meant a great deal. It appeared to me, that ever so insidiously, local control was gradually being usurped by "regional" control of unelected officials. Consultants (strangers) were replacing local people in places of city government (at lucrative salaries). The sense of community (calling city hall etc.) was being replaced by various business entities, having little to no attachment to the heartbeat of the people. How could they, being strangers, with no sense of native pride or concern? Words like "regional, stake holder, empowerment zones, enterprise committees, visioning councils, smart growth, sustainable development etc;" had replaced understandable language! I didn't imagine that the usage of these terms across the nation (if you look) meant "nothing"." (4)
 
It's 'Closing Time' America, because unless you begin to do more than just watch, this place won't even be a footnote to the ruin that is planned for these people and this place that once held so much promise for everyone.
 
kirwanstudios@sbcglobal.net
More importantly, what ever happened to the USA?

A Chinese bank is opening up in the USA.  Bush at one time had wanted to sell "security" of our ports to an Arab country.  We have two citizen heroes rotting away in jail because they did their job of protecting our border with Mexico and were forced to kill a criminal in the process of doing that job. 


If you open this link, you will see the staggering number of "American" companies that are no longer owned by Americans.  http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/07/10/american-icons-owned-abroad-falling-dollar-cheaper-u-s-assets/


As far as the redistribution of wealth, below I have copied and pasted what I feel is, by far, the most interesting article I've read on that topic.  In my opinion, a "trickle up" policy needs to be implemented as soon as possible because the "trickle down" theory has not worked.



Closing Time


Jim Kirwan
12-10-8


 








Since Reagan we've been trying to make "Trickle-Down economics" work: For those to whom promises were made, Trickle- Down has been, not just a failure but it has been the major vehicle responsible for the most massive redistribution of wealth, from the population that has worked toward something, to those that wanted everything. Never has there been such a near total transfer of wealth in the history of the planet. This criminal-conspiracy has done what it was created to do ­ and it must be terminated with extreme prejudice, immediately, if we are to survive.
 
When 'Trickle-Down' was the political-priority of the day, the high-point in prosperity was to become a 'Millionaire.' Forbes magazine tracked those lucky few very carefully. Today Forbes 500 no longer bothers with 'millionaires' because there are just far too many of them-they have become inconsequential. Thanks to "Trickle-Down economics today the heavy-hitters financially are 'Billionaires' and above: which is all you need to know about how well this hostile-takeover of the American economy has worked.
 
The problem that this transfer of wealth has created has resulted in the Federalization-of-Privatization: As a result we are all facing another huge round of trickle-down economics, but this time it's being cloaked in a series of stealth-protected measures. These new tactics are commonly called BAILOUT or RESCUE packages, and nothing about their origins or their purposes has been made clear to those of us that will be forced to pay tens of trillions for our own destruction.
 
What's happening is this: First they used compromised laws to squash diversity and opinion within the entire field of communications, under Clinton and Powell's kid that ran the FCC. Together, competition was eliminated and monstrous empires were created that absorbed their competition outright. Once this happened, the entire edifice for total information management was in-place, using household names to lie to the public every minute of every day, whether on television or in print-with very few exceptions. With that completed effort it was easy to move directly onto the openly fascist path to WAR on a variety of fronts, supported and applauded by the very organs that were supposed to question whatever government does, on behalf of the people, as part of their constitutionally protected-jobs as so-called journalists. With the constitution gone, and the only allegiance worthy of that name having become the private for-profit motives that greed and arrogance breeds; in the sewers of those ruined lives where these so-called leaders "live," the current outcome is all that we should have ever expected from these new-age barbarians. (1)
 
We're still in the Twilight Zone; where Obama is just another man waiting to start a job, except that he seemingly can't wait to begin so he formulates their plans and then rushes to the nearest podium to expound upon the glories of what these programs (or pogroms) are pointedly designed to do; for them and 'to' us. And the sheep wait patiently to board the trains that will take them to the slaughterhouse.
 
The larger picture has or course remained hidden from the general public. What continues to go unnoticed is the number of profligate cities and towns, not to mention states that will have to be bailed out by the feds. Once this begins to happen, 'the rights' of states will disappear completely along with any independence from the federal-government. Remember the formula upon which bailouts are based: The crucial money provided is conditioned upon a federal "ownership stake" in everything that needs the money, and when this is applied to the states then all they have left to trade with is their broken-economies and their people who shall both become the property of the federal government that is today a private-corporation that serves only the privately-owned central banks and by extension the multi-national corporations. This is about to happen now to several states, including California; the sixth largest economy in the world. (2)
 
'BTW the "corporation" mentioned above has been bankrupt since 1933, and the result of that bankruptcy is that the USA went into receivership to the privately-owned Federal Reserve. The Dictator was correct when he said: "The constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper," he was actually telling the truth. It was probably the only truthful statement he ever made in nearly eight years.
The owners have simply allowed us to believe we have a constitution. Every law, code and statute world wide is based on the Uniform Commercial Code and has been in place since 1950. Of course no one in a position of power ever bothered to mention this to us did they? One must understand the UCC to understand how and why so many have gotten away with so much: And now they are upping the ante, to take it all.'
 
This explains why every courtroom and every government building has flags hanging that really are not American flags even though they appear to be. Each of them has gold/yellow fringe around them. They give us smoke and mirrors that mask what they created, which allows them to continue to say 'we have a constitution and a democracy.' Of course America was created to be a constitutional republic, not a democracy. There is a huge difference between a democracy and a constitutional republic. The rights of the few and the many, can only be protected under a Republic, while under a democracy, the majority rules-absolutely.
 
There are however a few places that are still holding out against the one-world-order and the New Barbarians. Among these are Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, parts of Pakistan, possibly Iran and certainly Greece.
"Socialist leader George Papandreou called for early elections, saying the conservative government could no longer defend the public from rioters.
 
The government has a single-seat majority in the 300-member Parliament and opposition parties blame hands-off policing for encouraging the worst rioting the country has seen in decades.
 
'The government cannot handle this crisis and has lost the trust of the Greek people,' Papandreou said. 'The best thing it can do is resign and let the people find a solution ... we will protect the public.'" (3)
 
If America is to survive then we must stop this wholesale giveaway of everything that was once part of this society. The relationship between profits and earnings must be freed from the stranglehold that management has created in order to siphon off all the profits and wreck the companies they work for. In addition, the idea that government can function in any capacity as a major stakeholder in any form of private enterprise beggars the imagination far beyond any real possibility for saving anything; except the criminals and their enterprises that created this "crisis" in the first place. The 'economy' must be based on a bottom-up profit motive, based on the real wages of those that create the wealth for those at the top - and not upon the insanity that it is now! People must come first, and the corporations must be controlled at every level by the public!
 
There is no longer anything like responsibility anywhere in government or the private sector to anything except what can continue to be stolen, either by flawed and fraudulent bailouts, or through the strong-arm tactics that are currently acting "under- cover of law" and that are neither legal nor functional. Obama in this venue is neither a savior, nor a friend to the people that supposedly 'elected' him-he is just the instrument of the new global-government engine designed to finish the job and to close down this nation, once and for all! Americans need to watch what happens in Greece and follow their example, if there is to be an America to fight over in the future.
 
In the meanwhile, here is some of what's happened here already.
 
"With the focus on privatization, public-private partnerships, (dismantling local control); anyone with any common sense about them can see that; incrementally the power of the people is being given over to corporate control through various venues. Once upon a time we were subjects, then citizens, and now consumers. Everything is for sale. TV 'programming' is set up to entice "consumers" through the 3000 daily ads to buy, buy, buy! Utilities-waste- nursing homes, and even the people's water (once in local control) is open to the highest bidder or those with the most influence. In "public private partnerships or privatization" (despite the lofty high pitch sales rhetoric) means only one thing, a plundering of the people's money. Profits take precedence over any and all health or environmental concerns. It's pigs at the trough time, locally- state wise and nationally. This is not just happening in one or two isolated places but across the nation. Because we are narrowly focused (many times only one newspaper) parochially; we have little to no idea of the larger picture and what is being set in place.
 
As I read of various happenings across the nation; I am struck with the usage of terms and language being introduced into the public arena; with no explanation as to their meaning (if any). I asked a state politician a few years back what this terminology we're hearing lately of, "regional or regionalization" meant? He brushed the whole thing aside as inconsequential and told me that is was of no importance. Obviously, for me, that was an unsatisfactory answer. Most especially, since on the local level, I could see that it meant a great deal. It appeared to me, that ever so insidiously, local control was gradually being usurped by "regional" control of unelected officials. Consultants (strangers) were replacing local people in places of city government (at lucrative salaries). The sense of community (calling city hall etc.) was being replaced by various business entities, having little to no attachment to the heartbeat of the people. How could they, being strangers, with no sense of native pride or concern? Words like "regional, stake holder, empowerment zones, enterprise committees, visioning councils, smart growth, sustainable development etc;" had replaced understandable language! I didn't imagine that the usage of these terms across the nation (if you look) meant "nothing"." (4)
 
It's 'Closing Time' America, because unless you begin to do more than just watch, this place won't even be a footnote to the ruin that is planned for these people and this place that once held so much promise for everyone.
 
kirwanstudios@sbcglobal.net
Well, whatever happened, I am sure glad
nm
and we all know what happened to Rome don't we? sm
The Roman empire rotted from within. They kept absorbing and absorbing immigrants until they were no long able to sustain both them and their own citizens at the same time. The infrastructure finally gave out.

Sounds familiar to me.
I believe, if this happened...and don't know where you read it...
that these were paid McCain staffers, but some misguided McCain supporters. Obama has them too...many of them came out with the nastiness about Palin. They were Obama supporters, but not Obama staffers. Big difference. Obama can't control supporters, neither can McCain.
That happened to me the last recession we had...
and it took a good 6 years to right itself after the economy straightened out. And when it did...money went right into a CD. I don't mind a little in the market but I am not young enough to wait several years for rebounding again. Sigh.
Speak of Sam, what happened to her? nm
x
I wonder what happened to Kaydie?n/m
xx
That happened to me in the last 4 elections but

why, I don't know. It could be that the post office changed our street address 4 times yet lived here since ྈ.  I wasn't on the list even though I've been registered since 1988 and voted every election. All of a sudden, I had to fill out a special form to vote. Last local primary, they wouldn't let me vote and I had to re-register. Stupid!


This year I called to make sure I was registered and they said yes. Got a new registration card with the old address on it, but no trouble this year. I was #235 at 7:30 a.m.

So, so true. This is what has happened in many

Phoenix, Arizona is one of them.  Greed from Wall Street and greed from Main Street.  After all, Phoenix was in a major housing bubble.  I sold my home in 2005 by a California investor who not wanted my house and 6 others.  My house was in a biding war.  I pockted 280,000.  Now that house in Phoenix is worth 160,000 less than what I sold it for.  In 2005, homes were selling like crazy in Phoenix.  Everyone wanted to jump on the band wagon.  California investor thought, along with so many others, they could sell in a year or two and make a profit.  Some profit, foreclosure.  Many other homeowners took out equity to buy their boats and second homes.  Now their second homes and their own home are in foreclosure.  Not so many took out equity for cars because most lease their cars in Phoenix/Scottsdale.  You rarely see a car on the road that is 5 years or older.  Country has turned to greed, me-me-me, and gotta have it NOW. 

No, this just happened in the last 2 months.
It was WALL STREET, FANNIE MAE AND FREDDIE MAC that did it, not Bush. He had nothing to do with this.
What happened to Bin Laden? sm
Watch this Clinton interview by Mike Wallace.  Clinton lets him have it with both barrels and defends why he did not get Bin Laden. 

http://crooksandliars.com/2006/09/24/fox-clinton-interview-part-1-osama-bin-laden/
You would "CARE" if it happened to YOU!
nm
Something else happened in 09/2001........ sm
My 17YO stepson was killed in a motorcycle accident in which a car pulled out in front of him. He had been taught to safely ride a motorcycle, had a helmet on, and was traveling at a safe rate of speed. Was it his fault he was killed? Was it his parents' fault he was killed? Was it the City of Mesquite's fault he was killed?

No.

It was a tragedy, but there is nothing that could have been done to keep that accident from happening from our standpoint. The only person who could have prevented it was the driver of the car who pulled out in front of him.

Sometimes things happen that are beyond our control. Bush could not have stopped the 911 disaster. He was not the pilot of any of the planes. He could not personally marshall each plane and verify each passenger on the manifest. He could not keep those planes from crashing into the Towers or the Pentagon or in the field in Pennsylvania.

I'm so sick and tired of hearing the Dems bash Bush from everything from 911 to their own bad hair days. If you are going to blame anyone in the US for 911, blame the airlines who did not have proper security in place in the event that terrorists might try something like this. Blame Clinton for not taking out Bin Laden when he had 3, count 'me, THREE chances to do so. Or better yet, blame AL Quaida for sending their terrorists off in search of their 70 virgins. I'm not the biggest Bush fan in the world, but the man does not deserve to be blamed for things he had no control over. Oh, sure, he may have known that terroist activitis were brewing, but as I said, he could not have done anything to stop what happened.
Nope. I just happened to have a day
off for a change and decided to check the board out. I see now, it was a mistake.
What ever happened to hiring someone...sm
because they were qualified - why should anything else matter, i.e. race, gender, religion, etc.?  I would think a job would be done more proficiently if you hired the person best qualified for that job! 
This happened not so long ago
To another rancher. I believe that was in Texas. They actually won. They own his land now, a guy and his sister if I remember correctly. Not a small parcel either. I think this was 4 or 5 years ago. Will have to see if I can find it.
Whatever happened to the First Amendment?

I rarely watch Fox News because I simply don't trust them to be "fair and balanced," after actually watching them a few years ago.


However, they have the same rights as MSNBC, CNN, HLN, etc., and I think that singling them out in order to silence them goes against the First Amendment that this country stands for.


Let them fall or survive on their own merit (or lack of same).

Hey BB, what happened with O and Gitmo?
nm
What happened in 2005............sm
when Israel pulled out of Gaza? They left behind 1000 settler greenhouses to spare the jobs of the Palestinians who worked in them and how did the Palenstinians show their gratitude? By trashing the greenhouses and stealing hoses, plastic sheeting and anything else that wasn't nailed down. They then proceeded to torch 19 synagouges and then began lobing bombs into Israeli cities. Nice....real nice.

Obama is doing what basically the rest of the world is doing and that is walking on eggshells and brown-nosing to keep from upsetting the Islamic faction and he is selling Israel up the river to do it by forcing them to live in 2-state situation with some very rotten neighbors.

Israel is an ally to every nation fighting the war on Islamic terror. Those same allied nations are advancing a policy of granting statehood to terrorists sworn to the destruction of that ally.

This is exactly the scenario outlined by the Hebrew prophets as signs of the soon coming of Israel's Messiah.

The prophet Zechariah predicted the whole world would be united against Israel over the Jerusalem Question (Zechariah 12:1-3); the prophet Daniel (Daniel 9:27) predicted an agreement that seemingly settles the Temple Mount Question; and the prophet Ezekiel predicts that, in the end, Israel will still face a massive Islamic invasion reluctantly overseen by Russia and led by Persia (Iran) (Ezekiel 38:5).

Think about this for a second. Since it is absolutely illogical, and yet it is also exactly the situation we find ourselves witnessing, do you really believe it was all just a really good guess?
The wish of death posts happened

however, the moderator deleted them very quickly.  Conservatives are being attacked with no mercy on the C-board.    These people post nothing that has to do with the subject matter posted but go straight for the jugular.  You are incorrect when you say it isn't personal, because it is extremely personal at times.  One long term poster was stalked and threatened by e-mail back when posting an e-mail link was an option.  I think you are as free as anyone to post your feelings and beliefs on any board, but when those posts become personally hateful, threatening, or wishing someone death or extreme ill will then that poster be it conservative or liberal needs to go.  Recently, the most hateful posts have happened on the C-board.  The moderator has said over and over "no bashing", but they still continue to do it.  What do you expect the moderator/administrator to do?


Not that I wish you to leave, but If you don't feel comfortable posting here you certainly don't have to stay.  There might be a forum where you would feel more comfortable and better fits your posting style.  Again, this is a privately owned board, and the administrator is free to discern anyway he/she wants.  However, I think the administrator would agree EVERYONE needs to play by the rules. 

I happened 5 years ago and no one said a word. sm
What does that tell you?
What is happening now is affected by what happened then...
and the fact remains that the Democratic party did, as a whole, seek to keep African Americans enslaved and after the Republicans, led by Abe Lincoln, abolished slavery, the Democrats (and yes, a minority of southern Republicans), did effectively deny African Americans the right to vote for another 90 years. The 60's are also part of history...and it was then and only then that African Americans got the clear right to vote. I think that is a bit more than a "bad decision." And yes it has changed, albeit after the fight (the civil war) and after numerous attempts by Republican congresses to try to override it...finally enough Northern Democrats did cross over and the right to vote was given. Certainly things have changed. It is just incorrect to state that the Democratic party has always been of a "liberal" view. They have not. That does not mean that Democrats of today follow that same mantra (some do, but they are leftovers of the past). DW, it should be hurtful to know that this occurred. Revisionist history has caused the majority of African Americans in this country, in fact most young people of this country, not to know what happened in those days. I am sure if you polled African Americans on the street they would have no idea that the Democratic party and a minority of the Republican party as well sought to keep them oppressed for 90 years AFTER the Civil War. Most of them probably think the Republican party was responsible for the whole thing. And before the attacks start...I do not consider myself Republican. I have tendencies that go both ways, and I don't think there is a name for that...other than Independent.

Yes, Bush bashing is hurtful in my mind not because I am a big Bush fan, but I do not understand why some people get such joy in making fun of someone. It reminds me of kids in a schoolyard. I don't see why people can't discuss his policies they object to and that sort of thing, but the incessant ya-ya'ing about his intelligence, he's an embarrassment...yada yada. Yes, that is hurtful on a purely human level.

The past was brought up in response to someone talking about how conservatives were probably "afraid" of the Salt Lake City major because he was liberal and worked for civil rights, yada yada. While working for civil rights may be a liberal trait, as recently as the 60's it was not. I have been called down many a time for things that happened in the "past." We really cannot shove the past under the rug. It is part of who, and what, we are.

And I think we can all agree that thank God, we all learned from it.
I think what they expected to happen happened....
South Viet Nam fell and there was a blood bath. Anyone who had in any way aided the Americans were imprisoned and/or killed. And huge amounts of loss of life in Cambodia...remember the Killing Fields? When the barrier of the US was removed...free rein. Just like if you remove the barrier of the US between the Sunnis and Shiites. It will get really, really ugly and I think many thousands will die before...if indeed ever...we could go back on humanitarian missions. That is my fear.

As to chaos...actually in South Viet Nam, the chaos came before we went in...the Dem administration, wanting to stop the "spread of communism" wanted to stop the North from trying to take over the SOuth...but did not like the South's leader at the time. Sooo the CIA helped with a coup to get rid of him. They did not expect the chaos that ensued. And so we went in. Sounds sooo much like what happened to get us in Iraq...except we had not been attacked on our own soil, we had not been attacked, period. They just wanted to stop the "spread of communism." And many many MANY lives later, cut and run, did not accomplish the objective and in fact made things worse. Sound familiar? Sigh. It can happen no matter what administration, no matter what party. I personally think JFK was a good president based on history...but Viet Nam was a BAD mistake. Every bit as bad in that time as Iraq has turned out to be in this one. But do I blame JFK personally for Viet Nam. No.
Yeah. It's been a while back and a lot has happened.
That's pretty much what I meant. They held hearings, brought charges, presented their case, proved their allegations. The mandate was to decide whether or not this constituted "high crimes and misdemeanors." Perjury is not pretty...but lying about affairs is not uncommon. Lying about the war...another story. In any case, the charges failed to meet the criteria of high crimes and misdemeanors and they voted not to impeach / remove from office.

I think "booming" is a relative concept. For example, as compared to now, booming it was. Another measure might be if people were better off when he left office than we he took office. The 90s, for the most part, is remembered as a decade of prosperity. I may come back a little later and comment further because I am transcribing today, but for the time being, you may find this article of interest. Would like to hear your comments one way or the other.
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0109-04.htm

I agree with about the working class, but I do believe that generally speaking, the dollar had more purchasing power then than now. I know that as an MT and single parent, the boom sort of skipped over my house, but on the other hands, things did seem easier and better than now.

You will notice I left out a few things that others might think of as "a good thing." Restoration of the death penalty would be one....NAFTA another. IMO, NAFTA has been a disaster and I considered it to be Clinton's biggest boondoggle. For the most part, I though Clinton was a "cool" pres. I will say this much. He is doing some good things now (William J. Clinton Foundation), but aging does not seem to agree with him, in terms of his personality. He just doesn't seem quite as "cool" as he was before....maybe I've gotten older too.

I appreciate your post and may revisit this later this evening.
Does anyone know what happened to Jimmy Carter's eye?
I'm just wondering, I'm watching the democratic convention and it looks really bad! Is it an infection or something??
There is NOTHING to compare what has happened to anyone at Gitmo...
to what happened at the Hanoi Hilton. We do NOT torture anyone in that manner. Have you ever read what happened to McCain during that time? Have you seen pictures of what the man looked like when he came back??
Fox has nothing to do with it, they just happened to report it first....grow up, and allow others th
I'm starting to dislike you dems more and more every day. Keep sinking, along with that sex article you forgot to publish the link to. You are all smut and no substance, most of the time.
They forgot about 9/11 about a month after it happened.
This endorsement happened this morning....

She formally announced she is supporting McCain and will campaign for him.


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/16/prominent-clinton-backer-and-dnc-member-to-endorse-mccain/

This stuff has happened at both rallies, just not
xx
blaming someone you know nothing about for something that hasn't happened
x
Yes. Computer virus happened
the birth certificate boobs would be "highly doubtful." I'm not trying to get anyone to believe anything. I'm simply stating fact. The virus occured IMMEDIATELY after following one of these lame BC links and yes, dear, it took nearly 4 hours to get rid of it. Only wish it were that easy to purge this board of all the ignorance that surrounds these paranoid BC delusions.
What ever happened to that shotgun wedding?
Was that just another stunt by Sarah Palin for the sake of the campaign?
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