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Very interesting read indeed. Thanks for posting.

Posted By: kam (no msg) on 2008-01-04
In Reply to: Interesting words from the OTB - Think Liberal




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Very interesting. Thanks for posting.
nm
This looks interesting. A long read, so will read it when I get home from work. nm
nm
Thanks for posting this. It is interesting...link inside for those interested.
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/buckner_tripoli.html
Do you read anything except the posting board?
The cause of our economic meltdown was the housing meltdown. You can't blame that one on Bush. He and old McCain have been warning about it for years, but the majority Dem Congress (especially Mr. Frank and Mr. Dodd) turned a blind eye to the whole thing. Mr. Frank is on video saying, loosely quoted, "Doesn't matter if Fannie and Freddie fail. The government won't bail them out." It was all that bad fannie and freddie paper that those wall street types had bought up that crashed the market when all those bad mortgages went south...bad mortgages that the Dems insisted be given out, to people who they knew could not afford the payments, so "every american could have the american dream." Well, now we have the american nightmare. If you want to stay in denial and somehow claim this was Bush's fault, go ahead. Does not change the truth of what happened. I don't agree with everything Bush did for sure. But the "pubs" as you guys like to call them are on the right side of this issue.

And it doesn't take a Messiah...or petty hatefulness...to figure this out. Look at what is happening, what Obama has done so far, and if you can see the silver lining, please to show it to me.

I have a friend in Massachusetts who is as liberal a Democrat as they come, and he told me yesterday, about Obama: "He IS a socialist. No doubt about it." It only took him 2 months to realize it...after a year of telling me he wasn't. So, not all you are wearing blinders. lol. And a socialist is what it is, and does what it does. This country functioned beautifully on capitalism for many years and it would have recovered on capitalism as it had in the past. But Mr. Obama is doing his dead level best to kill that, kill the entrepreneurial spirit, kill ambition, kill what made this country great. If Obama really cared about the poor and unfortunate he would put them to work, not pay them to vegetate. Trite though it sounds...they need a hand pulling them up, not pushing them down.
interesting read
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0809/04/gb.01.html
An interesting read.
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409.aspx?RelNum=5409
Very interesting and funny read. sm
Just goes to show that, as far as we humans are concerned, nothing ever really changes much. LOL
shoulda read your post before posting mine...
I think that we said some of the same things, and here I thought I was an original!
:o)
An interesting read from the Washington Post. sm

Draw your own conclusions on the state of the MT industry. Should we be worried? I would be as the gov't NEVER moves fast on anything unless it benefits them somehow. I had never heard of the HIMSS until I read the article.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/15/AR2009051503667.html?wpisrc=newsletter


interesting article, have read many similar these past few days...
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/1231-23.htm
Interesting to read the promises Roosevelt made when SS was created.
It's just like farm subsidies and so many other things that government gets into and then makes a mess out of.

The promises, incidentally, were basically "our older citizens will not have to live in poverty". Now, SS is nothing more than institutionalized poverty for anyone who has nothing else.

And, incidentally, some of the rhetoric around the time SS was created dealt with the objections some had to the withholding by saying "This way, you won't have to put money into risky stocks because this is guaranteed". In other words, the implication was that you didn't have to provide otherwise for your retirement. The message was very powerful for a generation that had seen the Crash of 29 and the market's performance throughout the Great Depression. Stocks risky! Social Security safe!

I've forgotten the exact age, but I think when SS was formed the average life expectancy was 60 or less. In other words, it counted on most recipients dying off before they collected much if anything!

Well...you can add it up for yourself. We have people living much longer than SS had ever anticipated. We have a climate where you can't reduce benefits and you can't increase withholdings. And we have not allowed people (other than federal employees!) to opt out of SS so they could invest the withholdings in things that might have performed much better. (Notice how right this minute YOU are probably thinking about our own crash, but the fact is that SS has not even done that well).

I agree that it sounds good to introduce means-testing so wealthy people aren't receiving benefits, but on other grounds I can't go along with what would just be another example of treating some people differently than others.
Obviously u didnt read, I said NONE of them are moral. Read the post before spouting off.

I read on CNN (yes, I do read liberal stuff too..hehe)...sm
...that Karl Rove was actually very disappointed in the McCain campaign for airing negative type ads against Obama.

So I would say that Rove is definitely not in the hip pocket of the McCain campaign.
Good research sam - but a lot to read right now so gotta read it later
I've been goofing off too much from work. I appreciate what you wrote and will read when I'm done with work here.
why are you posting here?
I believe in personal responsibility. I dont believe you or the govt have a right to tell anyone what to do with their body. If my choices are wrong, I will stand in judgment when I meet my maker. I also dont follow in lock step with an administration that lies to the people about Iraq. Supporting our troops and not falling for lies about this illegal war are two different things. Yes, it is an illegal war. The world realizes this. The International Court of Justice realizes this. Of course, I support our troops and want them home. Believing in God is a personal decision and should not be shoved down others throats. I believe in separation of church and state, do not mix religion and politics. I dont believe we should have the state and/or president intervening when a spouse wants to let someone pass whose brain is half the size of a normal brain, living only due to rudimentary reflexes and I certainly do not think they should waste my tax dollars on trying to tie the hands of the spouse. These republicans/conservatives are way out of control in so many ways. It would be quite laughable if it wasnt so pitiful. I believe this is not a Christian country but a country with many religions and beliefs and I respect the people enough to let them choose what to believe. Seems to me nowadays democrats are acting like the way republicans used to, i.e., keep govt at a minimum and out of personal business, keep the budget balanced or as close to balance as possible. Republicans/conservatives are so off course right now. They are trying to invade into the states rights and personal rights. They have waged an immoral illegal war, my children and my childrens children will be paying to reduce this massive deficit, caused by republicans. Yes I oppose **liberating** other countries who dont ask us to help. Who the heck do we think we are, invading a soverign country and pushing our beliefs and religion and morals down their throats? Iraq is worse off today than it was under Saddam. Under Saddam, they had jobs, food, electricity, a life of certainty and definitely not lawlessness in the streets. We have killed tens of thousands of Iraqis with the excuse of liberating them. We have created a terrorist breeding ground and it will continue. The minute we kill off terrorists, their sons and daughters will rise up and fight back. We are just as bad as Saddam with our sickening war machine.
Thanks for posting this.
that's what it's all about.
posting
In an odd sense of.....oh...whatever, please continue to post here.  No one wants you not to (gosh, it must be the green tea Im drinking this morning).  *note to me, get rid of that darn republican green tea*..
Not posting here

What is it about this issue that makes you people think that anyone finds YOU to be a threat to the point where you are all suddenly retreating and saying you won't post here any more???????????


The problem is with the breach of security on this site.  Unless you're the owner/moderator/administrator, this does not apply to you personally.


This issue should have been brought to the forefront on the company board a week ago when this incident happened, but I guess too many people were shocked by the blatant lack of ethics and the not so subliminal message that if anyone says anything negative about this company, your ISP will be tracked, and at that point, I, along with probable others, was afraid to post anything further.


why do they keep posting here?
For the life of me, I dont understand why these same bitter so angry conservatives come over to the liberal board and post.  They are not wanted here.  I guess the anger just builds up as they try to live their obviously unhappy lives and when they cant stand it any more, they come over here to start trouble.  It just bugs the heck out of them that we are patriotic, love the troops and want them home alive.  Some of these radical neocons actually say the troops are fighting for our freedom and freedom of speech?  What?  The war in Iraq has nothing to do with our freedom or freedom of speech.  They will just throw anything out there to try to justify Bush's war.  They sound so silly, just makes me shake my head and laugh.  A bunch of fools.
Wow, thanks for posting
>
Thanks for posting.
I really like Paul Krugman.
Thank you for posting this.
And thanks Lurker for writing it.  Lurker brought up many, many valid issues and good points.  I wonder why nobody on that other board even bothered to address those issues.
There was someone posting here sm

In fact several, and I thought one of them was you, who were listing lots of links that Bush engineered 9/11.  I guess I was mistaken, but someone was posting it here.


Thank you for posting this!
My heart was really heavy...was I was not aware of this stance until this thread began. It is indeed heartening to know this. Thanks again!
Thanks for posting
I think you made my point better than I did when I was discussing this. I don't think it was always clear exactly how the program worked. From what I had read, the basics of the program were staying essentially the same - that the states had the control over who they covered. The only things, at least from what I saw, that the expansion did was allow the federal government to raise their limit (which states do not have to necessarily comply with, it just gives the states more options), collect more income for the states' programs, and allow more agencies to help decide eligibility. Everything would still essentially be in the states' hands.
Thanks for posting that
That's the sort of stuff I was looking for. The article I read was obviously skewed the other direction. In a way, I think it makes me like him more. There are so many people in this country who are completely turned off by politics. They see it as a bunch of rich white men controlling their lives. Because he is so candid about his past, I think there will be a large number of people who feel that they can relate to him better than any other candidate.

It sounds a little crazy to say, but I think his honesty will help him.
Thanks for posting!
nm
Hey sam....thanks so much for posting....sm
I knew you could explain it much more succinctly than I could.
Thank you for posting that. sm
Loved it!




Thanks for posting! nm
nm
Thanks for posting
I'm not meaning to start a riot either but my opinion, this nation was founded on the principal that "In God we Trust."  We are no longer a Christian nation.  God blessed this nation for 200+ years, then we allowed Him to be kicked out and look where we are today.  Again, this is MY opinion.
Thanks for posting this, Sam.
nm
Thank you for posting this!
I am a Christian and have been struggling this past month, maybe the economy, maybe just myself feeling that I've not been doing all He wants me to. There is no ridicule from me; I agree with you totally and I am so glad you posted this. I've noticed a couple of posts where there is this misconception that Christians think we are better or something.


Christians - By Maya Angelou


When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not shouting "I'm clean livin'."
I'm whispering "I was lost,
Now I'm found and forgiven."

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I don't speak of this with pride.
I'm confessing that I stumble
and need Christ to be my guide.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not trying to be strong.
I'm professing that I'm weak
And need His strength to carry on.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not bragging of success.
I'm admitting I have failed
And need God to clean my mess.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not claiming to be perfect,
My flaws are far too visible
But, God believes I am worth it.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I still feel the sting of pain.
I have my share of heartaches
So I call upon His name.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not holier than thou,
I'm just a simple sinner
Who received God's good grace, somehow!

Thank you for posting...
Unfortunately, there are too many people who do not seem to want peace and tolerance. The next leader has to be able to rise above this, but I think your 11-year-old son is very insightful. Lets hope he is wrong, huh?

Take care...and God protect us all
thank you for posting this ---
I have already voted, so this could not change my decision one way or another, but I was interested in knowing what was said first hand and not just reading about it second hand.

After watching this video, it is clear to me that he was not saying that he was Muslim - it was not a slip of tongue - he meant to say that questioning whether or not he was Muslim had not ever came out of John McCain's mouth. He even corrected GS when he tried to correct him...

I for one do not believe that Obama is a Muslim, practicing or nonpracticing, but at the same time, this country is built on diversity, being free to practice what religion you choose - as long as the President is not pushing his faith down your throat, mandating that it is the only right religion, what should it matter anyway what his/her faith might be? Why is it even an issue?

I am a Christian, but everyday I report to a boss that is not a Christian and I have no problem with that - she does not tell us in her employ that we have to practice her faith, and she does not keep us from practicing ours. When Bush got elected, he did not say that we all have to start being Methodist, but I don't see the Baptist protesting him because he is not Baptist, and the Church of God protesting because he was not Church of God, or the church of Christ protesting becaue he was not church of Christ.
Thank you for posting this.
I will be sending this to everyone I know and posting it on my myspace page.  I want to get the word out to anyone and everyone about how big of a joke Obama really is.  Nothing is for free and all his supporters are mesmerized by his preaching of hope and change and getting something for nothing......they are so mistaken.  Nothing is for free!  This is nothing bot socialism and giving money to people who don't work for it.  Makes me sick!
Thank you for posting this -- sm

I'm going to share this with my DH tonight.  We have discussing this election over and over and haven't been able to come up with a clear choice.  Our biggest concern is the economy.  Yes, I care about national security, but I think there are enough advisors on either campaign to handle that.  What affects me most is money.  Up until this point, we (DH and I) have been leaning to the left because it sounds like O's plans would be more beneficial to us.  However, after reading this, I'm not so sure anymore.  My husband and I work very hard to support our 3 kids and afford a nice home, vehicles and extras.  The last thing I want is someone taking that away from me and giving it to the welfare group.  They get enough breaks as it is.


I've said this numerous times -- McCain should be raising these issues in a better light, not counting on his supporters to find it.  It's sad because I fear it may be too late already.  Sometimes I think MC doesn't want to win this election.


Thanks for posting this :)
nm
Wow! Thanks so much for posting that! nm
x
Thank you for posting
It is informative. I learned some things.
Thank you for posting this.

I have the same feelings about it and I just hope come election day, Americans will think about all of those things when voting.  I had tears in my eyes yesterday worrying about it and I just can't for it to be over.  I pray about it everyday. 


So many are hateful with Bush and the last 8 years.  He was by no means perfect but we didn't get attacked again and I am grateful for that.  He imposed tax cuts which helped me greatly.  I am so sick of Obama tying McCain to Bush.  They are 2 different people.  People are craving change so much, but at what price???  They will get change for sure.  It will be the beginning of the end of democracy as we know it.


Don't forget, Kerry was ahead in the polls in 2004 and didn't win. 


Thanks again for your post.  Glad to know I am not alone in my feelings about this whole thing.


Yes - thank you for posting
this is a very important election and there are fears regardless of who gets in but my fear is much more when I think about Obama winning. I was thinking last night how sad it is that our country is so divided, some say I'm just paranoid, but I fear a civil war here in the US after election day.

I agree that Obama is mesmerizing. He tells us all what we want to hear. When I watched his 30-minute ad, I actually found myself thinking "wow"... that ad was brilliant on his part but scares me how many people actually bought into it.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. :)
Keep posting
Bots gotta wake up. This lady is from inside the camp herself. She saying what we all knew was going on. It's all phony and deceitful. Hope? Hope nobody will find out. Change? Change for the worst.

Listen to the people in campaigns. Obama never fooled me (well actually he did when he was running against Hillary and I voted for him), but glad I'm among the ones who have awoken.
why are u posting?
No one on here has infringed on your right to disbelieve.  We are not calling you out on your disbelief.  We are stating what we know to be the truth in our lives.  That is a statement, not an infringement.  So far as I know, no one has yet taken away our Christian rights to go tell it on the mountain.  If I want to yell it from the roof tops that Jesus is real and he saves, if I want to write it all over this internet, if I want to scream it out on the streets all over the US, I have that right.  It is my freedom to say what I believe, what I think on here.  If you dont like the posts then it is your right not to read them.  Dont come on here and insinuate that someone is infringing on your rights.  I am sick and tired of everytime someone posts something about Jesus, someone else gets on here and starts whinning about how their rights were stepped on.  So society tries to make us shut up, but in turn you are stepping all over our rights. 
Thank you for posting this...nm
nm
Thank you for posting this
I never even thought about this. That's a really good idea to be prepared, and I'm actually going to start stocking up on stuff like this. I'll have to read about the depression more to learn how they got through it and follow suit.

Thanks again!
Thanks for posting this.........sm
I had been looking for that quote but could not find it as I could not remember who said it.
Thanks for posting this
The question of McCain's qualification to run for president was no more of an issue to me than that of Obama.  Why presumably intelligent people on this board would keep it going is far beyond my comprehension.
Thanks for posting this, Dee. ............nm

How do you know she isn't posting under a different name?
xx
Thanks for posting that.
I looked on Congress.org and they listed all the yeahs and nays, but didn't say where they were from except those that shared the same last name.