We lost our freedom with the last admin. - wire tapping, Patriot Act, etc....nm
Posted By: sm on 2009-02-21
In Reply to: Sad. The Government is going to own all of us. - Goodbye free America... depressing.nm
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True - its getting down to the wire
For some reason it seems like its still a long way away. But both sides are neck and neck and only time will tell.
True freedom of religion if you are Christian, or freedom to Islam,Buddhist, Hindu, Jew, agnostic, a
all are religious beliefs, and if you are looking for true FREEDOM, all must be tolerated, understood, and welcomed. cannot put parameters on FREEDOM
I only lost $1000 so far-Hubby lost $2000 in a week (sm)
so, I called his financial advisor yesterday and told him to put hubby in a "safe" plan. It's now in a money market fund that is part of his IRA.
I have no choice. I have to stay where I am. I have no "safe" available. Neither of us will be able to retire on what is now in our 401Ks and you're not the only one. We couldn't buy a car with Both our 401Ks, let alone live on it.
We are late starters for retirement not until our late 40s funds (most of our employers did not offer pensions). We are now of the first retirement tier and although we own our home outright, if we live until we are 90, there is no way we can live off retirement 401Ks or SS.
My husband's father told him back in the 50s that we would experience something like what is happening today and stated it would be worse than the ཙ crash. It is sure starting to look that way, but we will survive some way, I hope.
We need to pray for the people on SS now that cannot survive. I, for one, would love to help them, but can't help ourselves at this moment.
This admin. doesn't ALLOW itself to be put on trial.
What a copout! - it's only accusations! And that's all it's ever likely to be because this administration with the help of its corrupt and partisan congressional majority simply refuses to allow any independent inquiry into its crooked dealings. Let's not pretend that we actually have a balance of power in the federal govt. sufficient to allow normal due process to occur. So go on with your just accusations simpering - try these crimes in an international court and see how long they stay that way.
You have 3 jobs because the former admin. rewards
driving MT wages down. If US MT's were the company's first choice of employees, and not their last, maybe you & the rest of us would have one, regular 40-hour a week job with health insurance and paid vacations once again. Don't you miss having a day off once in a while? Being able to afford fresh bread instead of day-old? And believing that your work actually made a difference? 'Cause it sure doesn't now. That's why you're working 3 jobs. Because you have to. Not because MT is such an enjoyable and rewarding profession that you just cant get enough of it.
On the contrary, it indicts the Bush admin...
...just as much as their refusal to listen to warnings from the outgoing Clinton administration about Al Qaeda, and just as much as Bush's initial refusal to appoint a 9/11 commission at all. It's totally consistent with the belief that they have tried to block any serious investigation into the events of 9/11 (and silence anyone who could shed some light on it). Business as usual for them! I'm glad that crappy hand-picked group of power suckups have all been caught with their pants down. If the MSM is ignoring the story at all it's not because it puts Clinton (you know, the one who actually caught and jailed real terrorists who were responsible for attacks right here in the US)in a bad light - if a story gets ignored these days it's because it has the potential to shame Bush further. If that's possible.
Admin...we have someone codoning terror on this board
Absolutely! If you want 8 more years of the Bush Admin! nm
nm
You may notify admin of their email address,
and that can be blocked as well. Usually there is a link in the email that says report as spam, which will direct you to admin@mtstars.com
First proposed addition to Obama's admin....
Rahm Emanuel. Headed the effort to re-elect Richard Daley mayor of Chicago...firmly entrenched in the Chicago political machine. "From work earlier in his career, Emanuel considers Mayor Richard M. Daley, Senator Paul Simon and President Bill Clinton to be his professional mentors." Could this be the shape of things to come? Doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy so far.
The people in the Bush admin that authorized
We must remedy this. If the next administration does not at least investigate here, they too are complicit.
I doubt Colin Powell would ever speak out against this admin.
It's not in his nature to be a whistle blower.
I will say though I have ALWAYS admired him, before he joined the Bush admin. I had great respect for him; in fact, when I learned that he was a republican I was surprised. I felt we had a lot in common politically. While I am a democrat, I consider myself an independent thinker and do not always vote a straight democratic ticket.
I still had respect for him though as sec of state in Bush's admin. It did turn my stomach though when he made the case for this war, I felt he was either being lied to and was falling for it or felt he had to support it because of his political affiliation.
If you've ever heard him speak publically, he's very down to earth and nonpolitical in his nature. Much to be admired still in this man.
you must be referring to the previous admin. - GW didn't like to read much......
he did miss that memo about an impending attack on our country using our own private airlines..........Boy wonder? Must be referring to his super hero underwear.
Obama admin. skeptical of Iran's election results.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/13/official-obama-administration-skeptical-irans-election-results/
U.S. officials are casting doubt over the results of Iran's election, in which the government declared President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad the winner Saturday.
U.S. analysts find it "not credible" that challenger Mir Hossein Mousavi would have lost the balloting in his hometown or that a third candidate, Mehdi Karoubi, would have received less than 1 percent of the total vote, a senior U.S. officials told FOX News.
Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khameini apparently has released a statement calling the results "final" and hailing the election as a legitimization of the regime and its elections.
Turnout appears to have reached 82 percent, an all-time high. But when asked if the turnout figures should be considered suspect, given the "not credible" counts for Mousavi and Karoubi, the official said: "Oh, it has to be [considered suspect]."
There are already reports of violence outside Mousavi's campaign headquarters, and of huge demonstrations for both sides in central Tehran, with Mousavi trying to make his way to the one in his behalf. Even if widespread violence occurs, analysts see no prospect that this event would lead to a full-scale attempt at revolution or the toppling of the regime.
The dominant view among Obama administration officials, though not uncontested, is that the regime will look so bad as a result of whipping up Iranian hopes for democracy and then squelching them that the regime may feel compelled to show some conciliatory response to President Obama's gestures of engagement.
Add to that the Patriot Act..
They could not get the Patriot Act passed before 9/11. Read this Act. It is downright scary and at the very end it states "or other purposes." What "other purposes?"
yes. Patriot. nm
nm
Don't want a patriot, need someone
who is highly intelligent, who takes time to think through his/her decisions, not a shoot off the hip kind of guy.
what does this have to do with the patriot act?
nm
Now here's a patriot...Not..(sm)
Rush Limbaugh: *I Hope Obama Fails." Somebody's gotta say it.*
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_011609/content/01125113.guest.html
Maybe we should put that patriot act to good use....(sm)
like on the nuts at Fox News who are doing nothing but inciting violence.
http://leesearles.wordpress.com/2009/04/07/rightwingnuttery-glenn-beck-and-the-rise-of-fox-news-militia-media-edition/
A Republican response to all that oppose Bush and admin....Dems are a bunch of Nuts...
 but read Lurker and Imagine! Just IMAGINE!
Sheehan, a true patriot
I have followed this courageous woman who sacrified her son for this war and I have nothing but praise and respect for her. She is a true American.
Michael Moore a patriot? sm
in WHAT alternate universe? Investigate? He wouldn't know a true investigation if it bit him on his very large butt. During the last election when he called Americans in general and Democrats in particular stupid...well I guess he loves the country but holds the people in contempt...particularly liberals as that is what he said...a patriot? Well the founding fathers would spin in their graves on that one. LOL...omg. Michael Moore a patriot. LOL.
He was a true patriot! I'll bet you are
proud of him.
I didn't vote for or against the Patriot Act and neither did you....
Congress did. Obama voted to reauthorize it as well.
The Patriot Act has nothing whatsoever to do with communism. What would make you say that?
Patriot Act/health care
You mean HC, of course. She was not different than any other congress and senate members. Patriot Act parts 1 and 2 were passed BEFORE the Iraq War WMD Bush lies, people die justification based on faulty intelligence was revealed. It makes me crazy that it is still there and I truly hope to see it revised or scrapped sometime in the next 4 years.
I am asking you, seriously...do you know when you started feeling vulnerable to govt control? I feel that too, but I am sure for different reasons than you...and I really am interested to know what make you feel that way.
Obama's plan is not a socialist plan like the ones you are referring to. He is not taking free enterprise out of health care. He is proposing to open up the existing plan that now covers Congress, the senate and federal employees. I have looked at that plan. It offers a number of choices in terms of deductible amounts, types of coverage (HMO, PPO, etc), premium amounts and the like. Pre-existing conditions are covered under some of those plans, if not all of them. He is aiming his pre-existing changes toward private insurance companies as part of his health plan.
It works like any other group plan. If you broaden the base of employees (in this case, citizens added to the plan by CHOICE, not force), the premiums come down. The care remains the same. You are free to choose the plan that best suits your needs or elect to keep your existing insurance. For Obama, it is a question of giving people access to affordable health care. He is not suggesting to transfer tax dollars to create the kind of plan you are describing that you consider to be subpar.
What is TriCare? I have to leave for a little while, but when I get back I will try to retrieve the link I used to inspect the existing federal plan and if I find it, I will post it later this afternoon. BTW, I know I come on strong and use sarcasm to a fault when I feel I am dealing with a poster who I think (sometimes mistakenly) is either ill informed or showing disrespect...not when having healthy debates over differences in opinion, beliefs or ideology. Those debates end up being the most informative of all and are a lot more satisfying than just preaching to the choir.
Do you recall the pre-Patriot Act world?
when diverse viewpoints were at our fingertips and not dictated by Mega-Media outlets riding around in the pockets of political status quo? Not only has this dummed down American audiences nationwide, but it has been a direct assault on the democratic process.
Patriot Act provisions:
1. Law enforcement agencies authorized (and sometimes forced) to search telephone, e-mail communications, medical, financial and other records without a warrant. This has been exercised against their own citizens, the most recent instance being voyeuristic easedropping on intimate conversations between American troops serving in Iraw and their spouses...right to privacy in 1st, 4th and 5th admendments notwithstanding.
2. Eased restrictions on foreign intelligence gathering within the United States. This has allowed them to expand their definition of terrorisim to include individuals and groups exercising their 1st amendment right to redress the government via political dissent.
3. Expanded the Secretary of the Treasury's authority to regulate financial transactions, particularly those involving foreign individuals and entities. An example of this would be freezing funds of a first generation natural born citizens sending money to their family members who still live overseas.
4. Enhances the discretion of law enforcement and immigration authorities in detaining and deporting SUSPECTED (not proven) of terrorism-related acts. This has not worked out well for many perfectly innocent citizens and permanent residents whose only crime is to have a Moslem name.
5. The act also expands the definition of terrorism to include domestic terrorism, thus enlarging the number of activities to which the USA Patriot Act’s expanded law enforcement powers can be applied.
Abuse of the Patriot Act has been rife and is the stuff of legend, as is the controversy that surrounds it. The erosion of civil right stemming from this one piece of legislation is breath-taking, but the mindset that created it....even more so. I will be voting for a candidate that shows at least some sort of awareness of civil rights. Those are the freedoms I worry about.
Huckabee forgot about the Patriot Act...
Ummm audacious? More control? I'm getting whiplash from looking behind in order to look ahead.
I guess our definitions of a Patriot differs
and I guess that's okay, but the truth will come out in the wash, eventually. All the media filters in the world will not keep the truth coming from coming out eventually, and we may all be surprised at what the truth actually is which may be drastically different than either one of our points of view.
Bush to criminalize his protesters under Patriot Act
By Patriot Daily
News Clearinghouse
1-13-6
George Bush wants to create the new criminal of disruptor who can be jailed for the crime of disruptive behavior. A little-noticed provision in the latest version of the Patriot Act will empower Secret Service to charge protesters with a new crime of disrupting major events including political conventions and the Olympics.
The Secret Service would also be empowered to charge persons with breaching security and to charge for entering a restricted area which is where the President or other person protected by the Secret Service is or will be temporarily visiting. In short, be sure to stay in those wired, fenced containments or free speech zones.
Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse's diary:
Who is the disruptor? Bush Team history tells us the disruptor is an American citizen with the audacity to attend Bush events wearing a T-shirt that criticizes Bush; or a member of civil rights, environmental, anti-war or counter-recruiting groups who protest Bush policies; or a person who invades Bush's bubble by criticizing his policies. A disruptor is also a person who interferes in someone else's activity, such as interrupting Bush when he is speaking at a press conference or during an interview.
What are the parameters of the crime of disruptive behavior? The dictionary defines disruptive as characterized by unrest or disorder or insubordination. The American Medical Association defines disruptive behavior as a style of interaction with people that interferes with patient care, and can include behavior such as foul language; rude, loud or offensive comments; and intimidation of patients and family members.
What are the rules of engagement for disruptors? Some Bush Team history of their treatment of disruptors provide some clues on how this administration will treat disruptors in the future.
(1) People perceived as disruptors may be preemptively ejected from events before engaging in any disruptive conduct.
In the beginning of this war against disruptors, Americans were ejected from taxpayer funded events where Bush was speaking. At first the events were campaign rallies during the election, and then the disruptor ejectment policy was expanded to include Bush's post election campaign-style events on public policy issues on his agenda, such as informing the public on medicare reform and the like. If people drove to the event in a car with a bumper sticker that criticized Bush's policies or wore T-shirts with similar criticism, they were disruptors who could be ejected from the taxpayer event even before they engaged in any disruptive behavior. White House press secretary McClellan defended such ejectments as a proper preemptive strike against persons who may disrupt an event: If we think people are coming to the event to disrupt it, obviously, they're going to be asked to leave.
(2) Bush Team may check its vast array of databanks to cull out those persons who it deems having disruptor potential and then blacklist those persons from events.
The White House even has a list of persons it deems could be disruptive to an eventand then blacklists those persons from attending taxpayer funded events where Bush speaks. Sounds like Bush not only has the power to unilaterally designate people as enemy combatants in the global war on terror, but to unilaterally designate Americans as disruptive in the domestic war against free speech.
(3) The use of surveillance, monitoring and legal actions against disruptors.
Bush's war against disruptors was then elevated to surveillance, monitoring, and legal actions against disruptor organizations. The FBI conducts political surveillance and obtains intelligence filed in its database on Bush administration critics , such as civil rights groups (e.g., ACLU), antiwar protest groups (e.g., United for Peace and Justice) and environmental groups (e.g., Greenpeace).
This surveillance of American citizens exercising their constitutional rights has been done under the pretext of counterterrorism activities surrounding protests of the Iraq war and the Republican National Convention. The FBI maintains it does not have the intent to monitor political activities and that its surveillance and intelligence gathering is intended to prevent disruptive and criminal activity at demonstrations, not to quell free speech.
Surveillance of potential disruptors then graduated to legal actions as a preemptive strike against potential disruptive behavior at public events. In addition to monitoring and surveillance of legal groups and legal activities, the FBI issued subpoenas for members to appear before grand juries based on the FBI's intent to prevent disruptive convention protests. The Justice Dept. opened a criminal investigation and subpoenaed records of Internet messages posted by Bush`s critics. And, the Justice Dept. even indicted Greenpeace for a protest that was so lame the federal judge threw out the case.
So now the Patriot Act, which was argued before enactment as a measure to fight foreign terrorists, is being amended to make clear that it also applies to American citizens who have the audacity to disrupt President Bush wherever his bubble may travel. If this provision is enacted into law, then Bush will have a law upon which to expand the type of people who constitute disruptors and the type of activities that constitute disruptive activities. And, then throw them all in jail.
Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse
Obama voted to extend the Patriot Act...
just so you know. After he said he would work to repeal it. There's some honesty for ya. Frankly, I don't think throwing your pastor and mentor of 20 years under the bus for your political career is particularly moral either. But that is just me.
This should make **patriot** Cheney happy.
NM
The Patriot Act is up but some want to keep it, including Schumer. Don't blame Bush for that. nm
Please give examples of people violated by the Patriot Act
like rr said, Nancy Pelosi said she knows of no one who has been abused by the Patriot Act.
Freedom
I just want to say THANK YOU for your opinion, which is very valid.
Ah, but being a bum is FREEDOM
after all, we can cook over a fire using a wal-mart cart as a grill. We can get jiggy with nature. You must be well aware that bears aren't the only ones who "do it" in the woods. Visiting the food pantry at the local church is always a treat! All that hamburger helper and no hamburger - but a squirrel will do in a pinch, provided you can nail one of the little buggers. It is an ADVENTURE!
Freedom of speech, LOL
Freedom of speech? To get up there and state you believe A WHOLE SOCIETY OF PEOPLE, A WHOLE ETHNICITY OF PEOPLE OUGHT TO BE ABORTED? Yet, you people jump all over Cindy Sheehan when she rags on Bush, LOL..You jump all over anti war people when we scream..STOP THIS WAR..But NOW you are stating freedom of speech..LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL..Better to shut up now about Bennett, cause you sure are looking silly..
and I'd like to keep my religious freedom sm
without having to answer to the Christian right. If they had their way, we'd all be wearing babuskas and having a kid or two every year, paying homage to them at a tithe of 10% and having to hate all other religious ideologies.
Ah, yes. Freedom of speech.
I remember it well.
It was a cute joke. In case any of you missed it before it was removed from the board, one of the many places it can be found is http://www.justpetehere.com/2004/11/george_bush_pas.html.
Better do it quickly, though, because this post is sure to be removed as soon as the Cons start whining again.
freedom of speech
Check out the St. Pete Times, Sunday, 11/13/05, The Perspective, article by Robin Blummer. Sorry I don't have the link but it is easy to find. Talk about scary. By the way, I see that there are a number of comments to posts listed on the board but they are not available to see. Is this a new policy...we know people read or responded but we can't see what the response is?
Freedom is an illusion
What is sad is the idea that an entire political party would align itself with, unite itself behind and extend its unquestioning support to a president and administration who behave like closet fascists. Thank heavens their glory days are past us now and we can begin counting down their time in office in measures of months, weeks or days.
Even more regrettable is the fact that both parties and their supporters are so blissfully unaware of and so openly hostile toward the issues that plague their fellow Americans and accept the catastrophic damage that has been inflicted as business as usual. These issues in no way are confined to the war, although it is by far the most pressing one at the moment. It is difficult to know where to begin a laundry list of the grievances, but the demise of our civil liberties, the flagrant disregard of the constitution and the disappearance of freedom of speech come to mind.
Ask any democrat just how free they have felt over the past 8 years to express their dissent and listen to the response as one American to another, not as republican to democrat. This is only one of many steps that we will need to take as a nation to heal the wounds of division that currently afflict us. We are all saddened by this state of affairs and that is the common ground from which we start our search for solutions in resolving our differences and coming together as a nation.
Who started what and why is an exercise in endless frustration. The question is where do we go from here?
do you or do you not believe in freedom of speech....
and do you or do you not believe in the right of people to have opinions different from those and voice them? Is someone holding a gun to your head and forcing you to read my posts? You might be more comfortable in Russia where it is the policy of the counry to control thought that does not agree with the party line.
Freedom of speech.
Freedom of speech is freedom to all.
When watching TV if there is something I don't like I change the channel. I would suggest you do the same on this board instead of trying to silence those you don't agree with.
Keep on postin sam - you must be hitting home if there are those who want to silence you.
So is freedom of speech.
If the lady wants to talk about religion, so what? It's not like she's gonna get into office and make us all abide by her religion - Pa-leeeze!!!
Freedom of Speech? Think Again.
Hyscience
Religious freedom.
dd
Freedom of Choice Act
The Freedom of Choice Act would make abortion a federal issue and would basically do away with any restrictions on abortion. There are many state level FOCA acts already, but this would be the first time that it would be a federal act. I'm not a legal brain so I'm not sure if I am explaining this 100%. From reading both sides of the issue, it will basically lift all restrictions on getting abortions, meaning going in and having an abortion will be as simple as going in and having a check up.
To me that is just a new form of birth control and completely unacceptable. Yes, women have the right to choose. They have the right to choose to wait to have sex and to use good judgment. They have a right to choose to not sleep around. They have a right to birth control and requiring a man to wear a condom.
I understand there are dire situations, such as rape, incest, and in cases where the mother's PHYSICAL health is at risk. While I don't believe in abortion at all and wish it had never been thought of, I do sympathize with those mothers, and yes something should be done to help them. But to just say "hey abortions for everyone!!" is ridiculous! You know as well as I that most abortions are done simply because having a child would be an inconvenience. That is not right! If you don't want the consequence of having a child, then keep your legs closed! Sorry!
Freedom of religion....(sm)
also includes freedom FROM religion. It's funny to me that, as you said, people came to this country for freedom of religion (among other things). Now that they're here christians try to impose the very problems associated with those in Britian on the people of this nation. Christians are constantly trying to force their will upon others through politics. Please explain to me how that demonstrates freedom of religion. Doesn't that just put us back where we were?
Freedom of religion is a live and let live proposition....not a winner takes all competition.
NBC has the freedom to reject the ad!
The Catholic church has the freedom to produce the ad, NBC has the freedom to reject the ad, and everyone in this country has the freedom to choose whether or not they watch NBC. That is how it should be, freedom for everyone!
freedom of speech
Hillary said that Bill always was a hard dog to keep on the porch. So what. At least we weren't embroiled in an unjustified war, we had a SURPLUS in the treasury and the whole country wasn't going to the dogs. I believe in the 1st amendment - she can say whatever she wants. Take some cojones to talk about propriety................look at dubya and turd blossom.
Just another freedom chiseled away....sm
in the guise of healthcare.
This administration is going to do its best to make us a one party system, a people dependent entirely on the government, where over half are on the govt dole, and the other have of us slave to pay for it, and the more government there is, the less freedom we each will have.
This health plan, not to mention the rest of which is to come, is just one less freedom, that we each will have.
One day, these children will wake up and see what they have cost us, and what they no longer have.
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