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Well, actually he leans more Marxist than socialist...

Posted By: sam on 2008-10-30
In Reply to: McCain says Obama not a socialist - sm

I did not know that until I studied up on it. However...I have always said I do not agree with McCain on everything and this is certainly one of those things.


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They are socialist/Marxist. That has been the...
mantle of the DNC for years, growing steadily worse. They employ the Alinsky method...read up on it. Obama not only embraces it, he taught it.

It is built on class warfare. You find out what bothers people most, then you rabble rouse. Whatever that sore is, you make it more sore. And you blame whatever institution you are trying to take down. With Hitler it was Jews. With socialists it is "the rich." You make people think the cause of ALL their problems is either (Jews or big nasty corporations). Here it is big nasty corporations. They have fed people this for so many years they have bought into it. People actually think big evil corporations are the cause of everything bad that happens to them.

Saul Alinsky himself summed it up (paraphrasing): "It doesn't matter if it is true or not. It just matters if you can make them believe it."

Basically, in order to keep people voting for them, they have to keep people thinking that the big bad corporations are the cause of all the problems, and they say we are going to take from them and give to you and you have to do nothing to receive that other than keep voting for them. In recent years it has been changed to evil corporations and evil Republicans, and it is working, you see it demonstrated on this board every day. Most of these people really don't even know how corporations figure into our economy. They just know they're "evil." They hate a whole portion of society (Christians, conservatives, etc.) because they are "evil" and the cause of all their problems. Socialism 101. They have practiced it well...they have a lot of believers.
Marxist/socialist? Please. You are just being...sm
inflammatory. He is a liberal democrat, period. If I had called McCain a fascist would you not be insulted. Can we have some brains here? Next thing you will be calling him a communist. Good grief!
Because he's not a Marxist socialist for one thing....
lol.
Obama - more Marxist/Socialist/Communist

connections:


After Iowa

Happy New Year and congratulations on a job well done. These have been trying times when the hyenas of war have again been turned loose on humanity by a greedy ruling class.

Now, beyond all the optimism I was capable of mustering, Mr. Obama won Iowa! He won in a political arena 95 percent white. It was a resounding defeat for the manipulations of the ultra-right and their right-liberal fellow travelers. Also it was a hard lesson for liberals who underestimated the political fury of the masses in these troubled times.

Obama’s victory was more than a progressive move; it was a dialectical leap ushering in a qualitatively new era of struggle. Marx once compared revolutionary struggle with the work of the mole, who sometimes burrows so far beneath the ground that he leaves no trace of his movement on the surface. This is the old revolutionary “mole,” not only showing his traces on the surface but also breaking through.

The old pattern of politics as usual has been broken. It may not have happened as we expected it to happen but what matters is that it happened. The message is clear: we can and must defeat the ultra-right, by uniting the broadest possible coalition that will represent an overwhelming majority of the people in a new political dynamic. We must quickly shed yesterday’s political perspective and get in step with the march of events.

Frank Chapman  (letter to Communist Party newspaper People’s Weekly World.)
Via e-mail


 


 


A BIG WELCOME TO FOUR YEARS OF SOCIALIST/MARXIST STATE
and his democrats. Just you wait
You're a good little communist/socialist/marxist in your rhetoric..nm

Snopes.com leans to the left

Snopes.com leans to the left


July 29th, 2008 · No Comments · General Politics, Politics



Like many others I have used Snopes.com to check things out and make sure what I am reading is actually true.  I never really questioned them before, but then the other day I was reading an item on AL Gore and I began wondering to myself, why are they trying to justify why Gore said this.


I then started to look at other items and found the same thing.  Even when accusations were found to be true about liberals, Snopes would try to either explain it away or defend the position.  Unbeknown to me, this has already been well documented by others for items on the Clintons, John Kerry, Gore, and Barack Obama.


I did a little research and found that the site is run by Barbara and David Mikkelson, a couple from California.  From all accounts I have read, they are Obama supporters, but then of course probably support other Democratic candidates as well.


Now I am not saying that Snopes.com is a completely useless site because they usually do a good job on hoax emails…especially outside of politics. But you should always read what they say with a critical eye and be wary when they don’t just give the facts and start to defend a position.  If you see this I would suggest you check out other fact checking sites to collaborate what they say.


Snopes leans to the left

I can see a blind conservative thinking that perhaps Snopes is politically motivated toward the left. However, just for fun, I looked up the issue of Osama Bin Laden’s family being flown out of the U.S. immediately following the 9/11 attacks, when most air traffic had been grounded. Snopes says this, too, was false. Here, it quotes heavily from the 9/11 commission. Members of the Bin Laden family, the commission concludes, were not flown out before air space were re-opened.


But Snopes, via the 9/11 commission citations, does show that the Bin Ladens were flown out September 20th. The FBI questioned them, but then let them fly out. The commission also says one of the FBI agents who questioned the family was a pilot for the flight, though the vagueness of the report could lead one to conclude that the FBI agent was a pilot in general and not the pilot of the flight. Which begs the question, why mention it at all unless they meant that an FBI agent was the pilot flying the Bin Laden escape plane in question…


Anyway, the point of the whole Bin Ladens leaving the States is that they were allowed to leave so effortlessly and with our government’s help. It sounds great to say the government flew them out when all air traffic was grounded, but that’s just icing. That Snopes claims the rumor is false while the underlying point that the U.S. flew the Bin Ladens out of the States is true shows that Snopes is no more left-leaning than right-leaning. It’s admirable. They seem to take the tack that “if part of statement is false, the whole statement is false.” Very mathematical.


http://www.lekowicz.com/wren_forum/2006/03/14/705/


 


and leans right other times, but makes
Gourdpainter, you go girl!
Well, Leno leans pretty far to the right, so
#
A very intelligent and honorable man, but the articles leans severely to the right.....sm
I tipped over twice reading it. I am not trying to be mean or facetious, I think sometimes people feel so strongly in their beliefs,and I agree with many of his beliefs, that they comes get "tunnel vision", they lose their peripheral vision for that part of humanity that has been good and honest, but has been dealt some very bad, unfair blows and needs help. In my own heart and opinion, there is a difference between radical, fundamentalist Muslims, and mainstream, peaceful, truly religions Muslims, and have have met and worked with many with lovely families. Basically, the author seems to want to cling onto an idealistic life where everything is fair, the good guys always win, and there is only black and white. Well, there are lots of shades of gray in between, and like it or not (and I grew up in the Beaver Cleaver generation), the earth has moved on, time has moved on, and we have to deal effectively with WHAT IS. Yup, I am tired too, especially since my husband and I both have health issues, we certainly aren't kids anymore, and retirement is looking more and more like a pipe dream, even though we invested, sacrificed, and saved. But whining or wishing will not solve anything, as Americans we are famous for pulling ourselves up by the bootstraps and getting the job done, and our job now is to work together, search out viable answers, care for each other, and pull through this depression INTACT AND WHOLE. Off my ratty soapbox now!
She did NOT say Obama was Marxist.
She said that he believed in redistribution of wealth (and he does, said so himself) and how is the NOT Marxist? All Biden had to do was explain how it was not Marxist.

As to people in the campaign saying she is a rogue diva...when those "people in the campaign" are named I would come closer to believing it. If they did, I don't give a darn, because I am glad she is not as "yes" person and has a mind of her own. We need MORE of that in Washington. Not someone who toes the party line, unlike Obama who is in lockstep with the DNC and George Soros.
Sam's Marxist dogma.

Ever heard of the progressive tax system...the one the US has ALWAYS had?  That would be the same (regressive) tax system that redistributes wealth from top to bottom. 


 


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States#History_of_progressivity_in_federal_income_tax


Check out the table here to see the history of progressive tax structure in the US and notice how much MORE of a percentage of tax the top income brackets have paid in the past as compared to what Obama is proposing.  Pay special attention to the prevailing rates between 1932 and 1981. 


The vast majority of US economists (81%) support this tax structure.  Before income tax was enacted, Theodore Roosevelt (McCain's hero) strongly advocated for progressive tax.  McCain has made no mention of repealing or changing its basic structure.  Your Marxist arguments about Obama's tax proposals are embarrassingly ill-informed, especially in view of the fact that Obama simply wants to restore the top bracket tax rate that was in effect in 2000 when Bush assumed office (39.6%).  That is hardly excessive, in view of US history which informs us that in the past, it has been as high as a whopping 94% and that same bracket rate ranged between 63% and 94% for 49 years (1932 to 1981) of the 95 years we have been paying income tax. 


By your logic, we are already a socialist country, and we have had 7 socialist republican presidents.  NOT.


Nope, no Marxist, communists have ...

come forward claiming that Palin is "a believer".  But I have seen some articles that she is not as for reform in politics as she wants us to think.  When she was elected mayor it seems that she fired the police chief because he didn't support her in the election.  Also, she had asked the librarian about censoring books.  I have read conflicting stories on whether that librarian was fired or not, but both articles mentioned she wanted books taken out of the library.  Palin claims it was just "rhetoric".  She also left the town with a huge amount of debt, I believe $20 mill. when she her mayoral duties were done.  She also supposedly hired some lobbyists. 


Before I get bashed about Obama's same-ole, same-ole, I am not disputing that fact either.


That is why the Marxist message works with them...
let's take it from all those nasty people who are doing better than me (who incidentally worked hard to earn it) and don't make me do a thing to get it. Class warfare. Classic Marxism. Trouble is, they don't recognize it.
Bush is a black liberationist Marxist, too.

So, let me get this straight.  Obama is proposing a tax rebate funded by an oil company windfall profits tax.  President Bush's economic stimulus checks were also tax rebates, but they were funded by tax payers.  By the "logic" (and I use the term loosely) in your "all do respect" post below, wouldn't that qualify as redistribution of wealth and make Bush a black liberationist theological Marxist/Socialist?  Please help me out with this. 


 


The Bush redistribution of wealth is free market capitalism because it was funded by all of us, but Obama's similar policy scheme is black liberationist Marxist/Socialism because it redirects huge oil company profits back to the consumers who generate those profits for them in the first place?  After all, we ALL pay for gas, too.  So instead of energy cost relief for all of us, you think it is more appropriate for all that dough to be used to bankroll golden parachutes for oil company CEOs?  If that's capitalism in its purest form, it sucks and I want no part of it.  Sign me up for a little socialism.  Maybe those black liberationist theologians are onto something after all.    


It is not the tax that is the issue....and please read up on the Marxist ideal of re-
distribution of wealth. Not once during those 7 years was the money from those taxes redistributed to taxpayers in $1000 checks. The Marxist principle is the redistribution of wealth, which is exactly what Obama is proposing.
You can march in lock step with the Marxist...
socialist idea of "equal opportunity for all Americans" if you like. He was the member of a church for 20 years that preached black liberation theology. It is NOT about equal opporunity for ALL Americans. Programmed is right. Get with it? Not in this lifetime.
jew - socialist?????
Your ignorance is showing.  Blacklisting was just that, blacklisting, a modern day witchhunt.  Chomsky is a great columnist and professor.  Im amazed at the gall of you bringing up jews and linking them with socialism and communism.  I have many jewish friends who have worked extremely hard for all that they have and I frankly dont know what socialism or communism and being a jew has anything to do with the other.  P.S.:  This is America, land of the free..remember?  And if anyone, christian, jew, atheist wants to be a socialist or communist, they can be..its not against the law of the land.. 
He is a socialist
Wake up! Read his plans, read what he wants to do to America. They are all socialist ideas.
he is a socialist
I will not calm down.  He is not my president.  My president and leader is and always will be Jehovah.
Socialist?


by: Harold Meyerson  |  Visit article original @ The Washington Post


photo
Conservatives are currently attacking President Barack Obama by calling him a socialist. (Photo: Wired.com)



    "We are all socialists now," proclaims Newsweek. We are creating "socialist republics" in the United States, says Mike Huckabee, adding, on reflection, that "Lenin and Stalin would love this stuff." We are witnessing the Obama-era phenomenon of "European socialism transplanted to Washington," says Newt Gingrich.

    Well! Even as we all turn red, I've still encountered just two avowed democratic socialists in my daily rounds through the nation's capital: Vermont's Sen. Bernie Sanders . . . and the guy I see in the mirror when I shave. Bernie is quite capable of speaking for himself, so what follows is a report on the state of actual existing socialism from the other half of the D.C. Senators and Columnists Soviet.

    First, as we survey the political landscape, what's striking is the absence of advocates of socialism, at least as the term was understood by those who carried that banner during the capitalist crisis of the 1930s. Then, socialists and communists both spoke of nationalizing all major industries and abolishing private markets and the wage system. Today, it's impossible to find a left-leaning party anywhere that has such demands or entertains such fantasies. (Not even Hugo Chávez - more an authoritarian populist than any kind of socialist - says such things.)

    Within the confines of socialist history, this means that the perspective of Eduard Bernstein - the fin DE siecle German socialist who argued that the immediate struggle to humanize capitalism through the instruments of democratic government was everything, and that the goal of supplanting capitalism altogether was meaningless - has definitively prevailed. Within the confines of American history, this means that when New York's garment unions left the Socialist Party to endorse Franklin Roosevelt in 1936, they were charting the paradigmatic course for American socialists: into the Democratic Party to support not the abolition of capitalism but its regulation and democratization, and the creation of some areas of public life where the market does not rule.

    But in the United States, conservatives have never bashed socialism because its specter was actually stalking America. Rather, they've wielded the cudgel against such progressive reforms as free universal education, the minimum wage or tighter financial regulations. Their signal success is to have kept the United States free from the taint of universal health care. The result: We have the world's highest health-care costs, borne by businesses and employees that cannot afford them; nearly 50 million Americans have no coverage; infant mortality rates are higher than those in 41 nations - but at least (phew!) we don't have socialized medicine.

    Give conservatives credit for their consistency: They attacked Roosevelt as a socialist as they are now attacking Obama, when in fact Obama, like Roosevelt before him, is engaged not in creating socialism but in rebooting a crashed capitalist system. The spending in Obama's stimulus plan isn't a socialist takeover. It's the only way to inject money into a system in which private-sector investment, consumption and exports - the other three possible engines of growth - are locked down. Investing more tax dollars in education and research and development is a way to use public funds to create a more competitive private sector. Keeping our banks from speculating madly with our money is a way to keep banking alive.

    If Obama realizes his agenda, what emerges will be a more social, sustainable, competitive capitalism. His more intellectually honest and sentient conservative critics don't accuse him of Leninism but of making our form of capitalism more like Europe's. In fact, over the past quarter-century, Europe's capitalism became less regulated and more like ours, one reason Europe is tanking along with everyone else.

    Take it from a democratic socialist: Laissez-faire American capitalism is about to be supplanted not by socialism but by a more regulated, viable capitalism. And the reason isn't that the woods are full of secret socialists who are only now outing themselves.

    Judging by the failures of the great Wall Street investment houses and the worldwide crisis of commercial banks; the collapse of East Asian, German and American exports; the death rattle of the U.S. auto industry; the plunge of stock markets everywhere; the sickening rise in global joblessness; and the growing shakiness of governments in fledgling democracies that opened themselves to the world market - judging by all these, a more social capitalism is on the horizon because the deregulated capitalism of the past 30 years has blown itself up, taking much of the known world with it.

    So, for conservatives searching for the culprits behind this transformation of capitalism: Despite our best efforts, it wasn't Bernie and it wasn't me. It was your own dam system.


socialist blair
He is a socialist, doesnt just tend to sway that way..He is a socialist, LOL.  Gee, I thought socialism, you know, help each other, my bread is your bread, sure I will donate or pay taxes to set up programs, run by the government, to help those less fortunate..Socialism..the same thing you fight against in America, Social Security, without private accounts, Medicare, and many more, all programs set up by democrats.
You never meant a socialist Jew! sm
What do you think they come up to you and say hi, I am a socialist Jew.  Do you know Noam Chomsky?  How about David Horowitz's parents?  How about the Rosenbergs?  Shall I go on.  Do you wonder why almost all the actors blacklisted in Hollywood way back when were almost all JEWS?!? 
This is utter BS, but I'd take a socialist nm
xxxxxxxx
Couldn't have said it better...socialist to
xx
They you lean socialist, I don't, and we will...
agree to disagree. I do not begrudge anyone who has been successful in their lives and I sure don't think they owe ME any part of it. I don't understand that logic. And if a good many of those "rich" did not contribute extensively to charitable programs, there would be a lot more "with outs" than there are. But nobody ever mentions that. Just like nobody ever mentions those rich people and their businesses employ about 80% of us. But what does that matter, right? Why should we have to work? Just give us YOUR money. Sigh.

That is also where we differ...McCain is not Bush. And don't give me the voted with him 95% of the time. So did the democrats, or bills would not have passed. That doesn't hold water. McCain has gotten in Bush's face more than the democrats have over a lot of things.

If the Democrats had not blocked McCain's reform bill in 2005, perhaps we would not have had the Fannie/Freddie crisis.

But, oh well, I guess none of that matters....lol

Have a good day! :)
Was Jesus a socialist?...sm
On the last day, Jesus will say to those on His right hand, "Come, enter the Kingdom. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was sick and you visited me." Then Jesus will turn to those on His left hand and say, "Depart from me because I was hungry and you did not feed me, I was thirsty and you did not give me to drink, I was sick and you did not visit me." These will ask Him, "When did we see You hungry, or thirsty or sick and did not come to Your help?" And Jesus will answer them, "Whatever you neglected to do unto one of these least of these, you neglected to do unto Me!"
Obama IS a socialist. And I think you know it.
nm
Not Obama. He is a socialist first.
Have you not read his books?
No, he is a socialist first.........and no doubt his
It is known for a FACT that the Obama campaign has contributed over 800K dollars to ACORN, a corrupt organization committed to voter fraud with many members of ACORN indicted for those crimes and more...... you figure it out.

And pleeeze do not tell me Obama doesn't know anything about this...
SOCIALIST STATE
I agree with you 100%.
VT, Socialist Senator
Bernie Sanders.  Isn't that special?
Obama is a socialist
Redistribution of wealth is a key characteristic of socialism. We already redistribute enough wealth, so why punish those who work hard to make a better life for their families by making more money? Take more taxes from them to give to the crackheads on the street who won't work? Also, remember, it is generally the wealthy people who create the most jobs.
None were As socialist as Obama...
he is eliminating the federal taxes of 10 million and making up the lost revenue by taxing the "rich" at a higher rate, while at the same time letting the bush tax cuts for those same people expire, which is not reflected in any of your charts.

answer: None of them were more socialist than Obama.

At least HE is honest about it.
OBAMA THE SOCIALIST

HE'S A SOCIALIST, MUSLIM; WE WILL HAVE SOCIAL MEDICINE, ALL THE CHURCHES WILL BE CLOSED AND ALL CHRISTIANS WILL BE PERSECUTED.  NO HOMESCHOOLING FOR SURE.  OUR BORDERS WILL BE OPEN.  YOU MUST HIRE HOMOSEXUALS IN YOUR CHURCHES AND SCHOOLS AND BUSINESSES.  REMEMBER WHAT HITLER DO, IT WILL BE MUCH, MUCH WORSE.  ******


**** Edited by Moderator:  No name-calling, please.***** 


Not according to the socialist party.
Brian Moore, the presidential candidate for the socialist party, says that it is an insult to say that Barack Obama is a socialist. He was interviewed on TV last week and said that Obama is a capitalist and could not be described as a socialist in any way, shape, or form. I think he knows a little bit more about socialism than any of you do.
socialist ideology
Other folks have got the Obama transition covered here, so I won't talk about that. What I will say is how stupid it is for people to get in a lather about ''socialism.''

You quote that line, ''It wasn’t socialism and hand outs from the federal government that made this the country that people literally die trying to get into,'' and that's actually exactly the opposite of the truth. Our recovery from the Depression and our postwar boom succeeded pretty much exactly in proportion to how much money the government handed out.

Obama is not a socialist, but his policies will only succeed insofar as they take money out of the hands of the rich and powerful, and put it back into the hands of the folks that work for a living. There is simply no other way to sustain an economy without going through these ridiculous periods of speculation and depression. The mess we're in now is what happens when capitalism tries to ''prop things up.'' It always fails, and we always bail it out, and then we always wonder how this could possibly have happened again.


So the only way, is the democrat (socialist) way from now on?
The uninformed public such as you scare me more than them.
OH NO!!!! He's much worse than a socialist....
xx
A socialist's heart revealed. sm
No socialist society has ever flourished. You must know that.  Kruschev.  My God. I can't believe you said that.  Well, I am but a passing visitor and I just saw into the heart of darkness.  Woweee.
Probably the same thing socialist Germans said...
right before they became Nazi Germany and blamed the Jews for all their woes, and we know how THAT turned out. Frankly, I could not care less what you think of "right wingers" in general or me in particular, and also, frankly, I thank GOD you and I have nothing in common. Until the moderator tells me I cannot post here, I will continue to do so, and I will continue to read your posts as a reminder to never get as bitter and hate-filled as you seem to be. Bless your heart.
And you must want to live in a socialist country
What part of my message didn't you understand? It was pretty simple. It was Biden's words himself. So let me spell it out for the intellectually challenged (maybe if you read this slowly you might understand it).

1. We don't need the liberals stealing from the american people who have worked hard (the ones who have small business, etc (words of Newt Gingrich).
2. Taking more money from the people who work hard to earn it while not stopping the spending will not help the economy grow.

Most importantly - now read this extra slow so you can understand it.

Stealing money from the american people under the guise of "taxes" while trying to make them believe its their patriotic duty to pay more, when we can hardly afford to live anymore and while government does not stop spending on uneccessary programs is not patriotism - it's socialism.

You do the research. And you say I'm not too bright???
Obama is a socialist and probably a closet...sm
communist, masquerading as the most liberal democrat in the Senate.

Democrats have this overwhelming desire to want to be taken care of from cradle to grave, and their leaders philosophy of, "let me take care of you forever" mentality is so scary. Not to mention the constant class envy and warfare on those that are successful in life.

Complete and total socialism, and communism.....Doesn't work, never has worked, won't work ever.




Oh yeah, and he and Michelle are racist. Certain comments, past and present, in or out of context, are racist and inflammatory..... let's call a spade, a spade, shall we?

And a spade? that's a playing card, not a black man in this context.

I'm also sick and tired of the so called political correctness in this country. If Obama can call McCain and "old white man" -- why the heck can't McCain call Obama a "young, black man."


Geez, is it November yet...please?


Flame on, I don't care anymore, and I'm out of here.
Not yet, but it will be if we vote in a socialist president.
We will be Venezuela north.
Obama IS a socialist. That is a fact.
nm
You are voting for a radical socialist.
Be VERY careful what you ask for.
Seeing as you want to live as a socialist, you should consider moving to
x
Cuba communist not socialist. nm
.
What would it be like living in a socialist country
Because we know Obama is a far left/socialist and if elected will change the country into a socialist country, can someone please tell us all what exactly that means for us.  Seems too many people are dummed down by the TV reality shows that they don't pay enough attention to what is going on.  So...because it's a fact about Obama, what will that mean for our country and what difficulties will be be facing.
Well, yeah, with a socialist state and the whole
nm