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When does life begin? sm

Posted By: m on 2008-10-30
In Reply to: ... - sm

You state that you apparently have a different view of when life begins as opposed to others, Shelly and myself for example.

My stance is that life begins in full at the moment of conception. Why? Because cell division begins at that point and body organs and systems begin forming very shortly thereafter. It is quite an amazing process, really. At 5 weeks, the neural tube has formed. At 6 weeks, the heart bulge has begun to form as well as the jaws and the buds that will become arms and legs. At 7 weeks, we have eyelids and elbows and fingers. At 8 weeks, we have a brain and hands and knees. At 9 weeks, earlobes appear as well as shoulders. At 10 weeks, the fetus is fully recognizable as a baby and at 11 weeks bones have begun to form. At 16 weeks, your baby has started to grow toenails. And on and on it goes that this living viable BABY grows. Can an inanimate lifeless object do that? Can your computer monitor grow fingers? Do the cells of your car multiply? No. A baby is something that is living and growing from the moment of conception and to take its life is murder and robs it of its civil rights as a human being.

That is how wrong abortion is.


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Life doesn't begin 'til the cord it cut and the
Until then, it's just a fetus/piece of tissue/etc., and has no rights.
This is where it will begin
Any remark not directly supporting Obama is immediately construed as hate speech. Neither McCain nor Palin ever accused Obama falsely of anything, but since they brought up something questionable about him, you consider that hate speech.

This is where it will begin. It won't be long (at this rate, probably within months) before there is no freedom of speech, no freedom of the press; anything negative said about Obama will be called hate speech and racist.


Where do I begin?? sm
No pork!

No lobbists in my White House!

I will bring the troops out of Iraq (maybe he will but he's just sending them to Afghanistan instead)!

I believe that if a person will lie about one thing, they will generally lie about anything.
You cannot begin to understand the
he saw it coming, gave the pubs just enough rope to hang themselves with, had a plan and launched it. This must may be the October surprise we have all been waiting for. I am thrilled beyond words.
Do you think that people will begin to take any job?

I was just wondering if you feel like with the economy the way it is that American workers will begin to take any job that is offered to them and that will make it harder for illegals to find work and therefore they will go home?


I just thought about it.  A lot of the jobs that the illegal people have now are jobs that Americans really do not want to do.  Well, it is beginning to look like if people want to eat, they are going to have to do whatever they can and may decide that those jobs are not so bad after all.


What do you think?


And the excuses begin....
any republican would have been castigated. Your bias is showing. Mine, at least, is out in the open!
I never believed he was there to begin with - nm
x
Maybe you could begin in another thread.

Day of Prayer and the absolute vicious lies about Obama's faith.


Just because you believe he lied about other things does not automatically make him a Muslim.


Excuse me, but for you to begin the *debate* by asking if we would rather

have our *backs patted* is, in and of itself, confrontational.  Back-patting is what happens routinely on the conservative board, and they've even brought that to this board, as well, as any objective person can see below.


Obviously, you don't find your comments rude and confrontational.  I respectfully disagree.


And I seriously wish you a wonderful day, as well. 


I mean, REALLY !?! Arrogance doesn't even begin
It borders on psychopathic.
Anything could happen - pigs may begin to fly too
x
Where do I begin about Palin flaws?
Lately I really hate how she is inflaming the crowds and trying to paint Barack as a terrorist. That's just plain wrong. I hate that she lies. I hate that she abused power. I hate that she could put our country and security at risk by having a high power. I hate that she is against abortion. I hate that she is against educating kids on sex issues, I hate that she is so backwards, I hate her 1980s blush, I hate her voice, I hate that her husband belongs to a fringe group trying to get Alaska to secede from teh union. I hate that she went to teh fundraiser with her husband for getting alaska to secede from the union. I hate that we are supposed to think she is worthy of Hillary supporters when all they have in common is a vagina. I hate the way she won't be interviewed. I hate the way she lowers herself to only go on Fox or talk to Rush and I cannot believe that repubs don't see the blunders of these moves. I hate that people say "she is a woman" as if that alone makes it progress even though she basically is not helping women at all. I hate that she left Wasilla with a pile of taxes and debt when she had gone in to a debt free town. I hate all the meth labs in her tiny town that nobody talks about. I hate how she pretends that only she and mccain supporters are patriotic. I hate how ...oh gosh... i can't talk about it anymore. I hate how she says she has a gay friend when she is against gay unions. I hate the way she attacks Barack. She is really really dangerous and way too right wing.
I can't begin to imagine what the parents must feel.
I would be so enraged if I were in their position that I'm not sure what I'd do. I hope I would remember that keeping my family together and supporting my child (or children if there are siblings) has to be a priority, but on the other hand, to know that this monster is free to walk the streets and do this to other children... I'm not sure I wouldn't do whatever was necessary to put him either behind bars or underground. I certainly couldn't condemn a parent in that situation who made that choice.

I really hope there is enough uproar over this to change things. Otherwise, what choice do people have to protect their children but to take the law into their own hands? These judges (and legislators, for that matter) need to realize that, like guards in a prison, government rules by consent of the governed. Fail to protect the governed or to enforce reasonable laws in a just manner, and the governed will assume control one way or another. I am not an anarchist by any means, but law and order is one of the most basic governmental responsibilities. We can argue til the cows come home about everything else we would or wouldn't like the government involved in, but if they fail on too large a scale in this most basic duty, vigilantism and anarchy become inevitable.
Hopefully, moderates in both parties will begin to assert themselves.
We've swung far to the right and now far to the left. It will be a good thing if the true majority of Americans re-take control of their government, and I think you'll begin to see that happening in the 2010 Congressional election cycle. With any luck, Obama will be a one-term President unless he can manage to once again hoodwink the American voters into believing he's a moderate. Can we be fooled twice? I hope not. Let's get a true moderate into the White House in 2012 - of either party, I don't care which.
This article does not begin to address the problems.
Going forward not but a few years, Social Security is a grave problem, but Medicare is a true crisis, and we won't be able to tax our way out of either, although the idiots will try.

These things ARE coming:

1. Tax increases. These will be of many different varieties, and from all levels of government.

2. Reduced SS benefits. This might be disguised in the form of raising the eligibility age, etc., but it will still be a reduction in benefits.

3. Healthcare rationing. We simply will not be able to pay the bill to provide everyone with the level of care that medical science is technically capable of delivering. Rationing will be done in two ways - by restricting access on some sort of a cost-benefit basis (if you're 80, you won't get that triple bypass), and by increasing the waiting times while forcing people to go through a series of less-effective but cheaper forms of treatment.

I continue to be amazed at the number of people - in government and out - who continue to stick their heads in the sand over these realities while we pile up debts that even China can't bail us out of.
Obama didn't wait for his term to legally begin, he started on Nov. 5th.

I am not in your life....I am in the life of the baby...
and will continue to speak for the baby. Again, my right.
get a life
You post once again shows you are a vile and nasty person who surmises too much about people on chat boards.  You know nothing about me and you attribute too much to me.  I have no control of liberal posters.  I enjoy reading their posts and respond when I want to.  My advice to you is get a life and stop taking postings on a tiny bulletin board so seriously.  You are sounding irrational.
Life?
Well, as a practicing Jew, I believe life begins at the first breath, but I know everyone does not agree with me.
Life...
How can something that moves, has a heartbeat and brain waves not be alive? Please to explain that to me.
Life...
I never said I did not give a hoot about what you believe and I am somewhat taken aback that you accuse me when you do not even know me. I do not agree with you, no; but you are entitled to believe as you wish, and just hope that you afford me the same courtesy. So, you are saying that you are on board with abortion? It is okay because the child is not alive according to your religion...that the child has no soul until it takes its first breath? So basically taking away its chance to take that first breath by invasive surgery is not murder, because you believe the child has no soul until it breathes? I am not finding fault, I am trying to understand a different view.
life
I am not on board with abortion. Since I believe (and many Jews do too, but not all) that life begins with breath, I believe it is up to each woman to make the decision that is right for her. It is not my place to judge or condemn her choice. My family has 2 children what were very much wanted and are very much loved. I feel fortunate that I never was in a position to have to make a choice regarding my pregnancies. But, just because I didn't chose to terminate a pregnancy (for whatever reason), I certainly don't want to take that choice away from another.

Basically, (and I am not referring to you personally here) if you don't believe in abortion, don't have one, but don't push your beliefs on me or anyone else.
Nat'l Right To Life, etc.
Check some of these places if you still don't want to believe me. Plenty are out there. One search for the above (nrl.org) brought up plenty.
I'm Pro-life sm

My point is that all our tax dollars have no business being spent on bad behavior and things such as this.  The mainstream media has "mainstreamed" this issue, in an attempt to minimize the subject matter a 

Many people who refuse to watch FNC because they're supposedly nutty right-wingers aren't getting both sides to the story.  For instance, if you go to Foxnews.com and pull up Hannity & Colmes, you'll see that the show is half liberal and half conservative.  You won't find that on the others.  And while you're at that site, the info regarding what Rick Warren had to say about the debate at Saddleback, and how Obama actually heard more ahead of time than McCain.  Actually, it was no debate, as Obama still refuses to have a face-to-face with McCain.  I guess that's presidential? 


I personally prefer to know when I get my news that I get both sides of it, and the people on the network aren't afraid to put their political views out there. 


It sounds like we both agree on this, so I was surprised that you asked.  Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough or something.


 


her life is obviously out of

control.  A real woman attends to her responsibilities at home. Her Downs baby needs her to BE THERE and interact with her.  It is not enough just to bring her into the world, she must care for her.  A pregnant teenager needs her mother there to guide her through this unfortunate time in her life. Teenage pregnancy is devastating to the development of a young woman who should be preparing for her own adulthood not attending the needs of an infant.  Infants of teenage mothers suffer also.  Instead Mrs. Palin will be on the road campaigning for 2 months and then in the WH adjusting to her new job after that. Those sure aren't part-time activities.  I don't approve of a part-time mother OR a part-time VP especially with such an elderly pres.  Obama and Biden are vital individuals who have loving, stable home lives and will not be distracted from their duties.


 


Get a life
Duped how exactly??? They still have the ranch and are keeping the ranch. Big figgin deal.
Nothing in life is sure but............ sm
death and taxes, and Mr. Barnett very eloquently proved the latter.


A Day in the Life of a Republican

A DAY IN THE LIFE OF JOE REPUBLICAN Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards. With his first swallow of coffee, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some stupid commie liberal fought to insure their safety and that they work as advertised.


All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer's medical plan because *some liberal* union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance - now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs. Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packingindustry.


In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained.


Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.


Joe begins his work day. He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe's employer pays these standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he'll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some stupid liberal didn't think he should lose his home or go hungry because of his temporary misfortune.


It's noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe's deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe's money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression.


Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and hisbelow-market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime.


Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers' Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans. The house didn't have electricity until some big-government liberal stuckhis nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification.


He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine-drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to.


Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn't mention that the beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day.


Joe agrees: We don't need those big-government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have.


I am against anything that destroys life.
That's my stand. 
Yes, I am strongly pro-life...
and I have said in numerous posts that I am not against insuring children. And I am NOT. What I am against is taxing all Americans to death to pay for all kinds of programs where the waste is unimaginable. There are thousands if not millions of women who made a living having babies...under Aid for Dependent Children. If you don't believe that, talk to some people in Human Services. They sign up 2nd and 3rd generations on AFDC or whatever they call it now. Those ladies will never work and they tell you they will never work, and I can promise you they are not bettering themselves so that they can keep health care for their children. And if you look at those children, I am thinking not a lot of that check every month goes to taking good care of the kids. My point is, trim the fat on existing programs that obviously are not working...don't make NEW taxes to pay for MORE programs that no one is going monitor either. There is plenty of money floating around out there in wasteful programs that could fund insurance for children without making even MORE taxes. And what I am saying to you is that at some point, the more people who get on programs and out of the work force, the less tax money there is going to be to take care of all the programs. That is all I am saying.

And another thing, you need to read the bill. It does give a lot of leeway for folks who could pay for private insurance for their children if they made it a priority. But why should they, if you and I are going to pay for it for them. Yes, I believe there are some people out there who would like to better themselves but will not so they can keep health care for their children. I can also tell you that there are as many out there who could provide health care for their children but will not because they think it is too high and they choose to spend the money elsewhere. Ugly, but true. So why didn't Congress send the bill to Bush that did not have that loophole provision in it? There is a really good question.
I am sorry if my being pro life is offensive to you...
however, I have not called any individual a profane and hateful name. Defend it if you like. Birds of a feather.
I am THRILLED that we might have a pro life ....
(it's about darned time we had a voice in washington), Bible-thumpin' (which builds character and compassion, not bad things, and may I remind you, Obama professes to be a Christian and talks about his faith as well..why the double standard may I ask), gun moll (oh please...although the idea that she could pick up a gun and defend herself if she had to is not a minus either) for VP. If I was going to be in a fight I'd sure rather have her at my back than Joe Biden.

Even after loopholes, the rich still pay more than 80% of the taxes in this country. Even that is not enough for you?

I actually was doing worse under Clinton than I have done under either of the Bush terms. Your party has had control of Congress for a year and have sat on their hands and done NOTHING to help this economy. Bush had to push through the economic stimulus package, and frankly, that check was welcome. At least it was SOMETHING.

Your congress is who makes policy. It is THEY who should be working on the economy. BUt they have not done diddly. Not my fault...I didn't vote for the Democrats (majority). Those are your guys and girls.
The Nat. Enquirer? Oh, get a life.
nm
A day in the life of Joe Repub. sm


Someone e-mailed this to me, I thought it was kind of funny and took it in the spirit in which it was sent (considering a pub sent it to me).  The date says 2004, but whoever recirculated it put in some current references.  Not saying that it is true, just thought it was funny.

 

A Day in the life of Joe Republican.


Politics September 28, 2004


Found on This Modern World, an e-mail that’s apparently making the rounds:


Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards. With his first swallow of water, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some stupid commie liberal fought to ensure their safety and that they work as advertised. [Conservatives (ie McCain/Palin) want to get rid of MOST government regulations]


All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer’s medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance - now Joe gets it too.  [Conservatives (ie McCain/Palin) want to limit workers access to and the power of unions] He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs. Joe’s bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry [Conservatives (ie McCain/Palin) want to get rid of MOST government regulations that have prevented poisoned food being imported to the  USA ]


In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained[Conservatives (ie McCain/Palin) want to get rid of MOST government regulations] .


Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal fought for the laws to stop industries from polluting our air [Conservatives (ie McCain/Palin) want to get rid of MOST government regulations and environmental protections]. He walks on the government-provided sidewalk to subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor. Joe begins his work day. [Conservatives (ie McCain/Palin) want to get rid of many of the public projects in favor of financing the Military/Industrial complex] He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe’s employer pays these standards because Joe’s employer doesn’t want his employees to call the union. [Conservatives (ie McCain/Palin) want to limit workers access to and the power of unions] If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he’ll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some stupid liberal didn’t think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.  [Conservatives (ie McCain/Palin) want to limit workers access to safety nets in favor of financing the Military/Industrial complex] It is noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe’s deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe’s money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression. Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime. Joe also forgets that in addition to his federally subsidized student loans, he attended a state funded university. [Conservatives (ie McCain/Palin) want to get rid of many of these consumer protections and public assistance in favor of the giant financial industry] Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car safety standards to go along with the tax-payer funded roads. (Again, conservatives fought these steps to aid the citizens of  America for the good of ALL Americans) He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers’ Home Administration because bankers didn’t want to make rural loans. (Again, conservatives fought these steps to aid the citizens of  America for the good of ALL Americans)  The house didn’t have electricity until some big-government liberal stuck his nose where it didn’t belong and demanded rural electrification. (Again, conservatives fought these steps to aid the citizens of  America for the good of ALL Americans)  He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine-drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn’t have to. [Conservatives (ie McCain/Palin) want to limit workers access to unions and government safety nets in favor of financing the Military/Industrial complex] Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn’t mention that the beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day. (And have used smears and lies against liberals that have pushed these agendas)Joe agrees: “We don’t need those big-government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I’m a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have.” (sic)





I have know some people in my life who are....sm
always flying the American flag or have worn a flag pin (or a cross) on their lapel who if truth be know are dispicable human beings, not patriotic or religious in any way. It is what is in your heart and mind that matters not what you display to the rest of the world via a symbol on your lapel.
I would stake my life on it...
They do not want Palin to answer any questions, just want to somehow sneak her into the WH.  You don't have to believe me but mark my words if that is not what happens.  Somehow, some way, they will not have the VP debate.
Its a Wonderful Life

Warren Buffet and Barack Obama


George Baily and Mr. Potter are finally friends George will be the richest man in town!


Well....if I was fighting for my life....
I would much rather have Sarah at my back than Joe Biden or Barack Obama. In a HEARTBEAT.
What exactly makes him a low-life, besides just
x
Geeeze, they need to get a life then
))
I fear for his life.

I truly do worry about Barrack Obama for the simple fact that there are nut jobs out there who would rather he be killed than take the presidency.  We've already had one plot to take his life.  I hate to say that I believe there will be more.  I will not be voting for Barrack Obama and I do believe he is a liar and will drag this country down into the dumps, but I do not wish him any harm. 


If, God forbid, something horrible should happen to Barrack Obama....I believe it will tear our country apart.  It will segregate us and racism will become even worse than it is now.  We could potentially have our own civil war started with all of this.


McCain is pro life and HE is who I am ....
voting for. I wouldn't vote for Ahhhnold for dogcatcher. He is about as Republican as Maria Shriver. LOL GP.
And this impacts your life how?????
x
Impacting my life???
So am I not allowed to be interested or curious about anything that doesn't directly impact my life? You must have a very narrow range of interests.
Get a life, for God's sake!
.
We know a guy who never worked a day in his life

and collects SSD for his "mental illness." He checks himself into a state hospital when it comes close to the time when he has a review coming up. This is what I heard from my son, so I don't know how true it is, but I do know that he is healthy and doesn't seem to have any mental health issues.


His one brother is on disability because he was on the drugs so much, they fried his brain and another brother had cirrhosis. He couldn't get help and died.


Can you imagine what his life would be like if the
Life is hard enough for kids, even when everything goes as planned. The schoolyard is a cruel, cruel place.

And what about every time he does something wrong, or sasses back at his mom? There will be the either implied or spoken insinuation that it came from his dad's bad seed.
you can live your life any way you want!!
but don't try to FORCE your views of marriage down OUR throats. Those are the types of people who feel they have the right to control MY freedoms. Marriage is between a man and a woman, plain and simple. Common sense would dictate there's a reason the body parts fit; need I explain that?

People can live whatever way they choose in this life but don't try to PUSH your twisted beliefs on me....

I also have a right to have freedoms AND moral values!!!


That should be "Pro-life...
I already know most of you Repubs are only behind other peoples choices if they agree with yours, and if they don't, BRING IN THE GOVERNMENT to try and force our choice on you! 
Good Lord. You must have no life at all. nm

When life begins depends on

someone's religious beliefs.  Not all people believe that life begins at conception.


I don't think the beliefs of any religious group over another religious group should be shown preference when it involves the law.