your cult-like talk
Posted By: Sandy on 2008-09-13
In Reply to: Ever heard the term lesser of all evils? - sam
proves my point. To believe that all media except Fox is biased and that they were forced to chose the LEAST biased is franky cult-talk He did not try to trick her. he asked her straight out "what do you thank about the Bush Doctrine?" This is the definine doctrine of the Bush years that will be remembered in history. She did not know it. If she where honest, she would have said "I am not familar with it." Instead, she squirmed in her seat, thrust out her chin and tried to bluff him into giving her a hint.
He had his glasses on the end of his nose because he is over 40 and wears reading glasses like most older men. You knew that. You are trying to distract from the point again.
You never have anything good to say about McCain. You are focused on your hatred for Obama and frankly, it is creepy.
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Cult?
Sounds like a cult, doesn't it?
only a cult, hardly
I have Baptists knock on my door, Penticostals knock on my door, and the bible-thumping church down the road knock on my door.
Are they all cults?
A facist cult? That's going a little too far
I personally belief extreme left views lean towards fascism, but a fascist cult? Nah. The views on the right and left run the gamut. I wouldn't classify either as a cult though some like doing this, because of their determination to tear down the opposing view.
cult techniques
Isolation. Continually warn susceptible person not to trust any information other than what is presented by their particular group. Label all who are not WITH us, AGAINST us. Let's watch some more Fox "news"
Christianity is not a cult?
Seriously? You might want to check a dictionary.
Definition of cult
All you have to do is read the Faith board to see the similarities.
1.
a. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
b. The followers of such a religion or sect.
2. A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
3. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.
4. A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.
5.
a. Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
b. The object of such devotion.
6. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.
Ignore the cult like thing.
The same comment could have been applied to Reagan, Kennedy, Robert Kennedy, and FDR, and to a lesser extent to GW Bush. Looking at the election from a cult following is looking at the candidate's supporters, and not looking at the candidate, his qualifications and plans.
CULT warning. "Trust no
information that is not directly from us." Faux cult. True Believers.
CULT warning. Disparage any
institution that does not follow our strict definitions of correctness. All or nothing thinking. For us or against us. Faux cult. True Believers.
Sounds like a cult leader.
No votes for this man from me. He is up to no good.
SP cult strangely silent
x
Not necessarily cult worship
I don't know about cult worship, but I do know I have several friends who are African American who are over the moon. Why? Because for the first time in history someone who looks like they do really can do anything and be anything they want to be.
Religion, by definition, is a cult.
I did say that nearly 1000 Christians were killed in my original post. The church created by Jim Jones originally joined the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) and then was renamed The People's Temple Christian Church Full Gospel.
Someone posted that the followers of Jim Jones were not Christians, they were members of a cult. Someone then posted the definition of Christianity, saying that it was not a cult. All I did was post the definition of a cult. You are the one who is whipping yourself into a frenzy, not I.
GOP a fascist cult? See the list of criteria, seems it is so.sm
A Christian Republican speaks to other Christians
Beware: the GOP has become a fascist cult
I have been telling Conservative Christians that who should be howling at the top of their lungs is not the Liberal Left, it is the Far Right Christian Conservatives for they are being lied to, seduced and misled even more so than the Liberal Left. They are being seduced into fascism and that is not Christianity.
Christians are admonished in the Bible to be leery of new prophets for all prophecy ended with the coming of Christ the Messiah. In the Book of James we are warned of the evil that comes from the mouths of men. James 3:5-6: Likewise the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark. The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.
Book of James 3:9: With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in Gods' likeness. Out of the same mouth comes praise and cursing.
Unless you are deaf, dumb and blind, Christians need to come to grips with the fact that Bush-Cheney are lying to the world and that is not a mark of Christian virtue, nor is it a mark that the Bible tells us to seek, or to follow as Christians.
One does not have to look very far or dig very deep to find one lie after another that has come from Bush-Cheney. It is all an agenda; it is all about empowerment and greed and doing anything they wish, to anyone, and wrapping that all up as lies and spin to deceive us all.
I see it very clearly and if you saw it as clearly as I do, you would not vote for them at gunpoint, either, for to do so would be making yourself a deluded Christian that is not using discernment, that is following liars, and is on the wrong course.
Many Christian teachings give step-by-step advice on how to recognize a religious cult, and the same basic steps are necessary to recognize a political cult. If you know what to look for, and take the time to study closely, you can accurately recognize that Bush-Cheney is a cult of lust, power and greed, none of which are considered Christian virtues.
How to Identify a Cult
Here's a few guidelines to recognize a cult. If several of these apply to a group which has approached you, think twice before getting involved.
Do they put the demands of the group before family, school, and interests?
Are they vague about what their beliefs are until you're in the group?
Does the leader demand unquestioning agreement or obedience?
Is the leader a charismatic person who claims special spiritual powers?
Does the group change your sleeping and eating patterns?
Does the group keep you in constant group situations and promote dependency?
Does the group feel that only they have spiritual truth and that all other groups and churches are wrong?
Do group members keep contacting you even after you have told them you are not interested?
In fact, if you look real close at Bush-Cheney and understand the fundamental dynamics of what brought Hitler to power, how he controlled the masses, how he sold the Great Lie, it is very easy to see that Bush-Cheney Compassionate Conservatism and Fascism are one in the same. Many hear the term Neocon and do not recognize that in its current operative sense, it is a term meaning New World Order Fascist.
Following are the Fourteen Common Threads of Fascism and how to spot fascism. I ask that you read and think, as an American, as a Christian. Use the mind that God gave you and use discernment that the Bible warns you to use as a shield against following wrong or evil. I have taken the Laurence W. Britt section headings and written what I have to say to you Christians, coming from me as a Christian about each of those 14 points.
Fascism Anyone?
Fascism's principles are wafting in the air today, surreptitiously masquerading as something else, challenging everything we stand for.
By Laurence W. Britt
The cliché that people and nations learn from history is not only overused, but also overestimated; often we fail to learn from history, or draw the wrong conclusions. Sadly, historical amnesia is the norm.
We are two-and-a-half generations removed from the horrors of Nazi Germany, although constant reminders jog the consciousness. German and Italian fascism form the historical models that define this twisted political worldview. Although they no longer exist, this worldview and the characteristics of these models have been imitated by protofascist regimes at various times in the twentieth century. Both the original German and Italian models and the later protofascist regimes show remarkably similar characteristics. Although many scholars question any direct connection among these regimes, few can dispute their visual similarities.
1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. We were purportedly attacked by al Qaeda, but Bush-Cheney do not want any of us to know who the American and foreign names are that FBI translator Sibel D. Edmonds found in translating those documents and who financed 9-11. We were told Saudis did it, but what Sibel found disputes that and Bush, Cheney and Ashcroft put a federal gag order on her so you and I cannot know whose names are on that list.
Stop and think—what does protecting the identity of American and foreign names have to do with national security except to prove WHO DID IT?
2. Disdain for the importance of human rights. If you have not figured it out yet, the USA PATRIOT Act and Patriot Act II are undermining the freedoms of all of us, treating us all as al Qaeda suspects, and is part of a larger New World Order objective. Consider this—there are some who want the American Dream only for themselves and you do not get to have it if they win. We are also having many things done in our name in Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere that Americans would reject if they knew the truth. What is really disgusting is that both sides of the aisle are doing it to America. Their wealthy masters (contributors) are telling them to. They are making the big bucks and we are getting stuck with the debt, the dead and maimed soldiers, not to mention the burdens their families are bearing and the burdens the rest of our families are enduring, all in the name of lies, imperialism and greed.
3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. The entire world now knows that Bush lied about Iraq. I have made millions come to know that the Taliban had signed a contract with Argentina based Bridas Corporation to build that pipeline we now control across Afghanistan. The shortest and cheapest route to the sea for $10+ trillion in oil and over $3 trillion in natural gas is from Turkmenistan, across Afghanistan, Pakistan to the ocean.
4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism. George W. Bush is not Caesar and our troops are not Roman Legions out to do the bidding of the Wealthy Elite.
5. Rampant sexism. I hear one woman after another talking about how hot George W. Bush is and why they support him. This election is about the fate of this nation and has nothing to do with following a liar. I do not think the Stepford Wives is what ladies want to be, but there is plenty of Republican sexism and plenty of misleading to sell it as something it is not. They want your vote, other than that could not care less what you think, feel, want or need.
6. A controlled mass media. If you think you are getting all you need to know from Clear Channel, CNN and FOXNews, you need to look around and consider that maybe they are not being truthful with you, and maybe there is more going on in this world than Scott & Laci Peterson, Kobe Bryant, Michael Jackson, etc. Maybe the media is answering more to their masters than to the truth. Maybe they do not show us the facts because their wealthy masters will not let them. How can you make a decision with only lies to found a decision upon?
7. Obsession with national security. To the point of treating all of us as al Qaeda suspects, lessening our freedoms for security that is non-existent. Always remember, what government takes away they rarely if ever give back. Consider the words of Thomas Jefferson—where the government fears the people, there is freedom. Where the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Welcome to current day America. Homeland Security is protecting the government, not you and your family, loved ones and friends.
8. Religion and ruling elite tied together. Separation of church and state is so that the government cannot dictate or ordain what each of us is to believe when it comes to religion. What has slowly evolved is a circumstance where our religion elite and government elite are pursuing the same end and I do not see a healthy future in that department. God is our Lord, not George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. Jesus Christ is our Savior, not George Bush or Dick Cheney. Our church is within each of our hearts, not in the idle words from Washington, DC.
9. Power of corporations protected. What you have been witnessing over the past 12-16 years is the Corporatization of the U.S. Government and that by its very definition is fascism. That is why the corporations grow more powerful as you grow weaker. That is why they have the American Dream and many Americans do not and will not. That is why corporate fraud is not punished but if you do anything wrong, are punished. Richard W. Behan, author of The GOP, Inc calls them Movement Conservatives, and I call them Financial Terrorists. We are describing the same thing, but he is describing the disease and I am describing in my book the etymology of how that disease is systematically ruining this nation, this world and diminishing the lives of us all; how it kills hopes, dreams, futures. Richard is a Liberal and I am a Conservative and on this, we totally agree.
10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated. Three million jobs lost, many of them organized labor positions and just in case one has a Ph.D or MBA, quit complaining and take the Wal-Mart job, lose your home, health care, etc. Look around you, Christians, at the hopelessness you see in the faces of those around you and the sheer indifference of the government that pretends to lead us, be us. When was the last time you saw goodness, integrity, honor, Christian values come out of DC? Such does not come from there, so be careful with your answer.
11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts. Extend that to include freedom of speech, freedom of dissent, etc. If you stand up against this fascism, your report is sent to the Homeland Security Counter Terrorism Division, which in part explains why Homeland Security is protecting this government, not this nation, and in part explains why they just cannot seem to find the real terrorists. They are almost totally focused on U.S. citizens as the terrorist they fear. In my book, I define Financial Terrorists, what they do that creates the other forms of terrorism. We are not hated for our freedoms—we are hated for abusive U.S. policies and that is driven not by you and me, but that is driven by DC and their wealthy corporate masters. Greed is not a Christian virtue.
12. Obsession with crime and punishment. Lest you have not noticed, Ashcroft is batting 0 for 5,000 in the department of nailing the bad guys. I sent a letter to President Bush, Kerry and the Democratic National Committee on September 30 and these were two of the demands for the truth I put before these leaders and wannabe leaders:
2. I demand to know what energy companies were in that Cheney Energy Task Force meeting and what discussions there were as to the steps that would be taken to remove the Taliban and Bridas Corporation as the last remaining obstacle to the United States controlling the Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline. I met that company in 1999 and have known since then about the Bridas v Unocal, $15 billion interference of contract lawsuit in US District Court, Southern District of Texas. I also know about the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals decision on September 9, 2003 that upheld the Bridas $500 million arbitration settlement and the March 22, 2004 denial of Writ of Certiorari at the United States Supreme Court, Case 03-1018, Turkmenneft v Bridas
3. I demand to know how many prisoners are being held at GITMO and other places that are either BRIDAS EMPLOYEES or are persons that know all about Bridas Corporation and what your administration did to get control of that Trans-Afghanistan pipeline.
This administration is more focused on defending themselves against Americans who do not buy off on their lies than looking for al Qaeda. They are more concerned about four more years of entitlement to plunder this nation and others abroad. They are totally focused on taking over trillions of dollars worth of oil even with lies and making war to do so. That is not a mark of Christian virtue.
13. Rampant cronyism and corruption. Just look at Cheney-Halliburton and one should have all they need to know. Look at the no rule of law brought against Enron, Tyco, Williams Communications Group, Global Crossing, etc., etc., etc., and the millions of investors plowed under the in wake. You are poorer and they are wealthier than ever. When you figure out that the robber barons are the major campaign contributors to both parties and they want legal rights under color of law to plunder you, let me know. You will have had an epiphany.
14. Fraudulent elections. The 2000 Election still stinks to high heaven. If you have not heard, all across the U.S., Republicans are signing up people to vote. If Republican, those are being recorded; if Democrat, being discarded in the trash. That is not American; that is abusive, deceitful and un-American. Check Voter Fraud, KLAS, George Knapp, Las Vegas, NV.
I spent election night 1994 with RNC Finance in Washington, DC at the Renaissance Hotel, 10th & K Streets, at the table of William J. McManus, former RNC Treasurer. I pulled out of the RNC (Republican National Committee) when I learned that the Contract with America and the media spin was actually a Contract On America. It is all about Big Corporate business and socially malevolent to folks like you and me. Look close, pay attention.
Remember ladies and gentlemen, the U.S. government is not America, merely the instrument of government in America. We are America, not them. U.S. Corporations are not America, merely businesses based here. We are America, not them.
When they lie to us to lead us, they do not deserve to lead us
Another Obot that follows the cult of Obama worshipping
This whole Obama thing has gotten way out of hand. Am I glad we have Obama in there. You bet - I voted for him. But I haven't succombed to the cult worship of him like you have and others I have seen on this board.
I'm hoping he is a good man and will do good for the country. We won't know that until he actually gets in and gets to work. You know...like give him a chance in the job first before worshipping the ground he walks on and proclaiming he is an excellent president.
The cult of Obama has gone way past the "creep" zone. People (adults in high school/college) saying "Because of Obama I'm going to be a scientist" or "Because of Obama I'm going to be a lawyer". Excuse me, but what were you going to do before Obama came along, and if Obama never became president what would you have been? A bum? By the way, didn't you start studying to be a lawyer, scientist, or whatever occupation before Obama came along? Makes me wonder about their logic and reasoning (as in they have none). The fact that they have already made Obama's portrait when he has not been sworn in yet, they put his face on memorabilia coins next to Washington and Kennedy's head (which he is like neither). Why not put his head next to Carter or Clinton's face on a coin. Then on top of that they color his face but leave the two (Kennedy & Washington) in gold. I studied and worked in marketing and that is what we referred to as "subliminal messages". This time making it appear that Obama is much better than they were. Comic books are using his picture in them. Monuments are being created in his image (to include a monument to celebrate him at the hospital in Kenya where he was born).
It is just getting way way way too much past the creep zone for me. Heaven's gait, scientology, David Koresh and Waco Texas, the FLDS group in Texas, and now the Obama cult worshippers all fall in the same category of "creep-zone" however, I'll take any of those other groups over the Obama Cult worshippers any day.
I voted for Obama because I believe he's a good man and he has some good ideas that may help the country. He's not the messiah, second coming or whatever you people think he is. He is a man, plain and simple, that is following the directions of Zbigniew Brzezinski. People need a good slap of reality to get them back to the real life here.
Crowds shed tears of joy???? Yeah that sure does speak for itself.... give me the muslim terrorists, scientology, heaven's gait or any of the others any day, at least I can understand their thinking. The Obama Cult worshippers I cannot.
Bridger, only a cult would knock on your door.
x
NeoCon cult vision promotes more fear.
nm
Anyone willing to talk about something serious...
instead of talk radio or Gore's electrice bill. I am referring to Libby's trial, the firing of 8 judges, Pete Domineci, the unnecessary and ever rising numbers of dead - everywhere, 40 towns in Vermont calling for impeachment (of course this won't go anywhere but the gesture is telling), a pardon for Libby (and does he have to admit guilt to be pardoned which he has not done), the fact that Libby was the attorney to the much maligned Marc Rich who was pardoned by Clinton, which was also much maligned. Was Scooter as evil as Clinton for having defended him in his dealings with Iran and his tax evasion as Clinton was for pardoning him ?? If all this was just about infighting between the FBI and the administration and George Tenet, then why did Libby lie at all; wouldn't be important enough to lie about, IMHO. Throwing it out there.
You need to talk to someone who has
more knowledge about this than your average Joe. It is $250,000 per individual. Not couple, not family. Trust me, JM is going to have to get the money somewhere to offset this astronomical deficit. CHINA owns all of our securities!!!!! JM is not going after the rich for this money..........so where is he going to get it? We are headed for an all-out depression. We need to stockpile cash, food, basic necessities. If you are breaking even on your ranch - I clearly do not see where Obama's tax proposal is going to affect you. I do see more of the same screwing the entire country.
I only want to talk about what you are going to do to fix it. nm
.
Pie in the sky talk
There is no way he can do that. We have a state representative who lives on our street. When he heard this, he said he nearly fell over and couldn't believe this guy was making that kind of promise to the AMerican people. He said there is NO WAY that will ever happen because he admitted the Senators have a very cushy healthcare plan we all pay dearly for but there will not be an affordable plan to get the same healthcare plan they get. He has misled or just downright lied about that one.
You darn right it won't be free and it WON'T be affordable. Obama knows the only ones who would be able to afford that are the ones that are very well off, the very rich he condemns. Well, news flash, they already have that kind of plan.
Just another tactic to get your vote because he knows healthcare is a big factor here.
What are you trying to talk about now?
x
Is no one going to talk about this?
I think it is a legitimate concern. This is a site I found that kind of analyzes the Obama's tax returns. For the amount of money they make, they didn't really give that much to charity.
Shouldn't they practice what they preach?
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2008/03/obama-releases.html
I mean if you can explain this, please do. I just want to understand why he expects us to "be our brother's keeper" yet he doesn't seem to do much at all charity-wise.
Hey, you can't talk about HIM like that...LOL
You think we can talk to those who would rather
nm
OMG....talk about
nit picking. You people have no problem nit picking pubs, but if we dare to nit pick dems....we are called racist. Well....how about this......I think that woman is obnoxious and not even worthy to watch. I personally think Michael Steele is great and I'm glad he is the head of the RNC. He obviously is a black man and I think it is perfectly fine for him to use the term "bling-bling." What...because he is a pub the usual racial outcries don't apply? If someone attacked Obama for saying bling bling and using hip-hop as a reference to how his party is going to be....you all would bow down and kiss his feet. They bring up Michael Steele's catering business and a federal investigation.......what about Obama's buying of his house in Illinios with Rezko? That was okay according to liberals...just hide that tid bit and down play it and federally investigate a pub who isn't even the president. Appoint a tax evader to the head of the IRS and that is okay but federally investigate a pub over his sister's catering company. Such double standards!
OKAY!! Let's see what happens! Then we can talk about it. NM
x
I don't think you can talk about....(sm)
socially acceptable behavior without looking at the influences that set those standards. Christianity is what determined homosexuality to be unacceptable. It is the dominant factor in this debate as far as the US goes. The US generally accepted christianity as the norm some time ago in this country. In doing so it automatically put people in the sinner and non-sinner brackets. Homosexuals were obviously put into the sinning bracket. That is why they have been put in the closet. Not because "it's just not natural," but because it's a sin.
And that's where I have a problem with the whole thing. Since we are not a theocracy, religious concepts have no place in determining something as personal as marriage. For that matter, I also think it's absolutely absurd that govt weighs in on this issue. I think it's a personal choice, not for the church and not for the govt.
Wow, talk about creepy. sm
First of all, the above poster failed (I am sure it was a honest mistake) to say why I left the board. Context certainly means something. You remind me of the creep who was stalking me and was keeping a running tab of all my posts (much of what is posted above are not my posts). That's just weird. As far as serving, I was a military brat for a whole lot of years and I believe it is service. But of course, anything to label someone a liar. You are sad little people. I won't bother you anymore because obviously, your brain has limited capacity for anything except hatred, bitterness, and all that goes with it. Have a nice evening accomplishing nothing but your little hate party and bitterness regalia.
Talk about fireworks! LOL
If we continue down the path we're headed, it may as well be the end (but I'm old, so I figure I'm probably gonna die soon, anyway) 
Well, okay then. Talk about overreacting. sm
anyways, might want to lay off the Christian bashing. We all know the libs want to get rid of Christianity but I think they are trying to keep it a secret. Shhhhhhhhhhhh.....
Why you talk strange?
I do not get.
Me need new insult, yes.
Talk about a disconnect.
What does he care? He earns $212,000. Let's not let the facts stand in the way of his salary.
http://clerk.house.gov/members/memFAQ.html#salary
Do you talk about anything on this board besides
Ann Coulter and conspiracy theories. I mean wake up people! North Korea is firing off missles, there's some important legislation coming up, the supreme court just made an astounding judgment on Gitmo, and you guys are posting Pink songs. Get with the program. Have some debate here! No wonder I can scan down the page and see the same people over and over. You'll never get new blood like this.
I didn't say you did talk that way.
It was simply an exaggerated example to make a point about the subjectiveness of deciding what constitutes an observation versus an insult. I think that was obvious to most people. Regarding your snide observation, no I do not talk like that. As I said it was an example.
Perhaps your other boards do not have such a marked slant. And shall I make an observation on the tedious repetition that is found in your milieu's absolutely ENDLESS recitation of the evils of liberals, just to mention a few? ONe doesn't even need to read the content of the posts, merely scan the subject lines and the repetition is obvious.
Talk about twisting....
You said:
There are things that the poster felt needed to be said, and you see, this is a liberal board.
As it has been said ad nauseam, anyone can post on this board. Liberals post on the conservative board as well. I must have been absent the day you were named moderator.
You said:
You have a habit of mis-representing the facts, of twisting them to fit your agenda and your conscience.
On the basis of what, three posts, you say I have a habit of misrepresenting the facts and twisting them to fit my agenda and m conscience. Pot calling the kettle black, I would say. You posted erroneous information, represented it as fact, and I called you on it. If anyone's conscience should be bothering them, that would be you.
You say most of the people of the U.S. were against slavery. At different points in history that may or may not have been true, there weren't a lot of nationwide polls back then. Could you share your facts? Just the facts, ma'am.
I again refer you to history. History is full of the people who opposed slavery. We are at war right now as a country but as it is perfectly clear, is it not, that the whole country is not behind the war.
The fact is though that slavery was perfectly legal for 100 years in this country. Try twisting that one. That's what I mean when I say this country condoned slavery. But I think that was obvious to most folks.
Because it is legal does not mean all the people in the country condone it. Abortion is legal in this country but I sure as heck do not condone it. That doesn't mean I bomb abortion clinics or stand outside them and ridicule the people using them. But I do not condone it, nor do many others. I follow the laws of the land but I do make sure with my vote and in other ways to work to see that law gone. And I think that is obvious to most folks as well.
Secondly, you say this was Congress's war just as much as Bush's. Well, we know that is not true either. It was Bush and his cronies that planned this war, probably even before 9/11. There was erroneous evidence presented to Congress that led them to okay military action.
I really am incredulous that there are still people who buy that nonsense. Erroneous evidence presented to Congress? The Senate Intelligence Committee had the very same information the Bush administration had. And if all those congresspeople are so ignorant they could be *fooled* into buying into lies (if there were any, which there is no proof there were) that led the country into war, then I would think, for the love of pete, that you would be equally as incensed at them. What proof do you have that Bush and his cronies planned anything? None, because there is none. As you said, just the FACTS, ma'am.
If your daughter came home from school and stated that the neighbor girl beat her up you would might believe the evidence. However, do you not change your course of action if it turns out the neighbor girl didn't do the actual damage? I am sorry, I do not grasp your analogy. If you are saying now that maybe Congress screwed up, and now they realized they screwed up, how many years into it, so now the thing to do is, after we committed ourselves to the Iraqis to just up and go, leave them dangling, just like we did in Viet Nam? Nothing noble about that. And make no mistake...if the war suddenly became popular they would fall all over themselves backpedaling again ahd saying *I did vote for it and I voted against it but now I am for it again...* yada yada. They are politicians.
I believe you twist and arrange the evidence so you don't feel guilty about this utter madness and endless slaughter we know as Iraq as you similarly defend the US government role in the slaughter of indigenous peoples.
There you go again. First, my friend, I do not feel guilty. I have nothing to feel guilty about. I support the American military and I certainly support the war on terrorism. I do not readily forget 3000 people dying. I will never forget watching those people jump out of that building to avoid being incinerated and for what? Simply because they were Americans. How easily you seem to blow that off.
And I did not defend the US government role in the slaughter of indigenous peoples. I did not defend slavery. Both were wrong. Abortion is wrong, but they happen every day, and they happen NOW. There is no longer slavery and there is no longer the slaugher of indigenous peoples. Why does it not bother you that it is legal to slaughter upwards or over a million babies unborn babies every year? Why don't you get involved to stop that?
My whole point is that the US is indeed a great and often noble and generous country. I really want it to stay that way though and powerful people have a way of corrupting the moral values that have sustained this country for so long.
Excuse me yet again...but that is exactly what I said. The moral values that the country was founded upon and have sustained and how far we have gotten from that. But I guess we are talking about two different sets of moral values. What set are you talking about?
The US has taken some pretty bad detours along the way but fortunately common sense and good character have generally won out in the long run. Complacency and acceptance of corrupt power is always a threat though and that's why we need to QUESTION always those that are in near-absolute power. I firmly believe that those who question are the MOST patriotic.
I never said questioning was unpatriotic. What is unpatriotic in my view and always will be is suggesting that any American soldier died in vain. What I think is unpatriotic is while we have men and women dying in combat, no matter who sent them there or for what reason, we owe them the respect to, if we cannot support their mission, to not go public with rampant criticism and for the love of everything Holy not to suggest publically that they are fighting and dying for nothing. Not only do I think that is unpatriotic, I think it is selfish and mean. Doesn't mean you or anyone else can't grouse about it friends in the privacy of a home, but to go public with it where friends, family and loved ones of soldiers who have died there, were injured there and continue to fight there can read it. I don't know why some people (not naming anyone in particular) cannot just hold all that in until the troops come home. Then if they want to dissect it, take it apart, malign it or whatever, our troops are home and no longer in harm's way.
It is rhetoric like you are repeating that Al Qaeda loves to hear, and their greatest propaganda tool. Playing right into their hands. And yes, giving that upper hand to the enemy is to me, yes, unpatriotic.
You talk about them like they are the enemy.
Tsk tsk tsk.
OMG! LOL --talk about desperation!
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There's also talk that she won't rule out - sm
going to war with Russia if they invade Georgia. Just what we need, to be fighting THREE wars simultaneously.
And of course, don't forget the possibilities in Pakistan or Korea.
Fun, fun, fun.
Maybe it's time to quit MT and start selling bomb shelters again.
Do....let us talk about some of these issues.
9/11/2001: We all talk about 9/11. How Pres. Bush should have known. We did lose a lot of lives that day. It was truly a sad day. However, what about the World Trade Center bombing back in ྙ when Clinton was the pres. That was by Islamic extremists. Or about the US Embassy bombings in ྞ....also while Bill was in office suspect to have been coordinated by Osama Bin Laden. Or the USS Cole incident in 2000 and once again Bill was in the White House and once again Osama was the suspect in the planning. All these terrorists acts but the one people shout out about the most in 9/11 and how Bush is to blame. Why? Because more lives were lost in this one than with the other ones. Weren't they all still terrorist attacks? If Clinton had stood up and done something during his term....maybe 9/11 would not have happened at all but yet the blame all falls upon Bush.
Katrina: Once again all Bush's faults and therefore all republicans faults. Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff was the "federal official with the power to mobilize a massive federal response to Hurricane Katrina, [and] could have ordered federal agencies into action without any request from state or local officials." "If you go back to August 27th," President Bush had already "declared a state of emergency in the state of Louisiana under Title V of the Stafford Act, ... Ergo, Katrina became an Incident of National Significance on August 27th -- two days before the storm. But Chertoff apparently didn't realize this and waited till a day after [on August 30th] to make the determination on his own, one that according to the flow chart had already been made." Honestly though, if you live in a place that is well below sea level and you hear a really bit storm is coming your way.....common sense.....you get the heck out of dodge.
Iraq war: The reason for the war was this: The military objectives of the invasion were; end the Hussein regime; eliminate weapons of mass destruction; eliminate Islamic terrorists; obtain intelligence on terrorist networks; distribute humanitarian aid; secure Iraq’s oil infrastructure; and assist in creating a representative government as a model for other Middle East nations
As for Wall Street: Firms such as Goldman Sachs and Lehman not only made billions of dollars packaging and selling these toxic loans, they also wagered with their own capital that the values of these investments would decline, further raising their profits. If any other industries engaged in such knowingly unscrupulous activities, there would be an immediate federal investigation.
At the same time, federal regulatory agencies such as the SEC stood idly by as Wall Street took advantage of the investment public during both the Internet and the housing bubbles. The SEC took almost no action against Wall Street after the dot-com implosion. And in the midst of the housing bubble, in 2006, only the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency pushed for any level of regulation to address subprime lending.
One has to wonder why Treasury secretaries under Presidents Clinton and Bush -- Robert Rubin and Hank Paulson, respectively -- took no action to curb these abuses. It certainly was not because they did not understand Wall Street's practices -- both are former chief executives of Goldman Sachs. And why has Congress been so silent? The Wall Street investment banking firms, their executives, their families and their political action committees contribute more to U.S. Senate and House campaigns than any other industry in America. By sprinkling some of its massive gains into the pockets of our elected officials, Wall Street bought itself protection from any tough government enforcement.
This is no doubt the same reason why so many members of Congress were consistently blocking attempts to reform and downsize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which are essentially giant, undercapitalized hedge funds. These two entities have been huge money machines for Democrats in both the House and the Senate, many of whom recently had the gall to ask why these companies hadn't been reformed in the past. Nor should several Republican congressmen and Senators who likewise contributed to watering down legislation aimed at reforming these institutions be let off the hook.
faux talk.
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faux talk
don't read em
The talk is that there is not a lot of time
to reschedule between now and the election. And if you cancel 1 that only leaves 2 Presidential debates and I guess you can't have just 2 because there might be a "tie" as to who wins them. I don't remember the exact thing that was said. The speculation was that since you can't have just 2 then you would have to cancel the VP debate, and what I came across said that that is exactly what McCain wanted. This isn't me saying that, this is just what I saw (can't remember where though). Also, I read that if they cancel the place they were having it (U. Miss?) will be out like $5 million dollars and it is not so easy just to reschedule on a different date.
Have you ever heard him talk about what he
thinks of what McCain did for the country when he was a captive? He does hold him in high regard to that respect, I should have clarified that. I have heard him, outside of his show, say what a hero he thought he was and he was being "Dave Letterman late show host".
You are so busy defending McCain all of the time, you can't see when someone is trying to be genuine.
THis is a time to ACT, not talk. I know...
"O" can talk. I would like to see him DO something.
Wow - talk about coincidence
DH & I watched this and they could be talking bout whats happening today.
Good clip - thanks for posting. Gotta go run to my window now :-)
They said instead of all the talk about it being a bipartisan
effort, it turned out to be a partisan effort (dems against pubs again).
Speaker Pelosi struck the tone of partisanship in this. Failure of Speaker Pelosi .... failure to listen, failure to lead.
94 dems voted NO!
They're going back to the drawing table.
Well, since you want to talk nitpicking....
If McCain had forgotten how many states were in his country, you would have been all over that and you know it. O lovers would have been saying it's his age, not he's dog-tired....poor man.
Hypocrit!
Like Yoda you do talk.
*
Now see, is that kind of talk really necessary?
Seriously.
want to talk about unions?
the places i've seen around our area who have unions are pathetic. i've seen unions protect employees who come to work intoxicated, who don't come to work at all, who PLAY CARDS on work time, do what they want because their "union will protect" them. so if you are suggesting the union is American... that's pretty pathetic. if they were actually protect HARD WORKING AMERICANS, then i'd be fine with it.
you wanna talk about "jabs" at obama? i guess "a bunch of losers" would not be a jab?
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