Do you think our government should bail out FM/FM
Posted By: me on 2008-09-19
In Reply to:
Just wondered what everyone thinks about this subject. I haven't seen it discussed yet and if it has been sorry. Do you think the government should bail out these two institutions and if so, or not so, why?
I heard someone on the TV today (didn't recognize the name but he's an idependent) he asked the question, so is it going to be the people who make $30K a year the ones who pay for this or the billionaires and trillionaires? I thought that was a good point.
Also I heard that one of the guys in charge (forget his name right now) made over $90 million and he isn't paying anything. I would think that if you make over $90M on this and you run it into the ground you should have to forfeit whatever you made and pay it back (but that's my own opinion).
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Well, it would not have been necessary to bail out...
FM/FM had the Democrats running it not stolen it blind, and the "reform" bill the Dems passed that nailed the coffin shut.
Obama dogged and hounded by the media? Are you JOKING? Any interview he did was on the softball channels where he never got a real question...were you even watching? He would not go on Fox where he knew he would have to answer the tough questions until this week. Hounded by the press my eye...only to fawn over him. Sheesh...lol
do you think they should just bail out
what kind of solution do you propose?
we bail out ceo's ......
It's okay to pump billions into the auto industry and wall street but not into our own people?
So what happens when we bail them out?
See! We bail out the big guys and the money goes straight to the CEOs that ran the company into the ground, rewarding their incompetence! Oh, lets hurry and bail out the automakers too!
WASHINGTON - American International Group is paying out millions of dollars in executive bonuses to meet a Sunday deadline. But the troubled insurance giant has agreed to administration demands to restrain future payments.
The Treasury Department determined that the government did not have the legal authority to block the current payments by the company that has already received more than $170 billion in U.S. support.
AIG declared earlier this month that it had suffered a loss of $61.7 billion for the fourth quarter of last year, the largest corporate loss in history.
Here's what happens when we bail them out: sm
AIG accepted our money after losing 60 billion, and guess what? They are paying out 167 million in bonuses. Why is this allowed to happen? How can you lose that much money, accept money in bailouts, and then have the unmitigated gall to pay yourselves bonuses? This is UNACCEPTABLE!! Out and out thievery!!
the bail out really irks me
I think they should just let them fail and use the 700 billion or whatever it is to try and clean up the fallout from this mess. These greedy b@$st@rds need to deal with the consequences. I really don't get it. I thought you had to have mortgage insurance if you didn't have enough down. My sister has to pay for mortgage insurance, and it's highly unlikely that she is going to default on her mortgage (for one thing, she bought what she could afford). And as far a people losing their homes, well maybe they should move into homes they can afford anyway. There are nice 1-bedroom apartments in Harrisburg for $540, including utilities. Sounds good to me. grrrr....
The reason behind the bail out is
to put money back into the market. If we do nothing at all, the result is likely to be horrific. We have to do something to get money back into the market. However, bailing out these big banks and making us foot the bill is unacceptable to me. These banks and their big wigs should learn the consequences of their actions and not just walk away with a heck of a lot more money than I will ever see in my lifetime. This initial bail out is just a band-aid really. Our economy is collapsing and this bail out will slow down the collapse but there is no guarantee that it will stop it.
Right now they are debating about how to go about this bail out. Some want the bail out left like it is with us taxpayers footing the bill. Others are trying to come up with a plan to not make the burden on us and yet still get money into the market. That is why no agreement has been made.
My fear is that if we bail them out
what have they learned. They obviously won't have any consequences to their actions. We will be the ones to suffer for their greed and crimes. However, what is to become of us if we don't bail them out? I really don't know the answer to this. I am just thoroughly ticked off that our government has allowed things to get like this. Now they are sitting around crying and whining, pointing fingers, wanting special interests included in the bill, etc. I'm just so disgusted.
Is anyone actually in favor of the bail out?
I personally think that we should just let the banks fail and not save their greedy banker butts. It seems like that's the way a lot of other people feel too. I haven't heard one person say let's save their greedy banker butts. However, I'm pretty sure that congress will bail them out. If I could vote on this, I would definitely say no, no matter what consequence to myself (drop in stock, retirement and possibly the value of my home, no loan for college next semester).
Are there any average Americans out there that are for this?
bail out the world?
So we have to borrow our own money so we can bail out the world? Call your Senator.
Auto bail out s/m
Read the following report. 8-10% of total cost doesn't seem like a huge percentage for labor costs. Maybe they can't afford the big salaries and bonuses for the top dogs? About time the wealth started being redistributed. Funny I haven't heard any outrage over the outrageous salaries the top dogs in these automobile business are paid. Just whining about how much the UAW workers are paid. It's about time the working class started standing up for the working class!!!!!
Let 'em all go bankrupt. I have no doubt the idjits in Washington are way more concerned about job losses in "developing countries" than those of American citizens.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081115/ap_on_bi_ge/auto_bailout_gettelfinger
Did you see where if we bail out the automakers - see msg
There are people that are laid off and have been laid off for years that are drawing $31 an hour to just sit in a room - they play checkers, they read, they watch TV, or they sleep and stare at the walls. It is a guaranteed thing that cannot be stopped except through bankruptcy (and they may have to pay them off even then). So in effect, if we bail out the automakers, we who are struggling to make our money in this world will be paying those people to keep sitting there!!! 
How many think you should bail out illegal
what would that matter? you want to bail them out?
nm
I don't think we should bail out anyone's mortgage.
Anyone who took out a mortgage and signed a contract to repay the loan and needs to do so. I don't care if they are illegal aliens, legal aliens, space aliens, or United States citizens.
bail out.. Amen, sam. Disgusted with
the whole dang bunch of them, for sure. As far as this bail out goes, I think those at the top who made so many millions and apparently will just go on, should be treated the same way as Ken Lay and others of Enron fame. They should pay it back, confiscate their new homes and boats or whatever they have bought, do jail time and be forced out of their elite positions. Of course, by the time congress does an investigation they will no longer be around anyway. But I do not think they should continue to give away our jobs to nontax paying people and still fall back on the age old answer of taxing us. Even my math is better than that!
Fear is that they will still collapse even after the bail out.
Hedge funds are about to fold. Derivatives which I do not understand are a whole other ballgame - They are what made the hedge fund managers millionaires - it is like betting on stocks (as one would with football) and is somehow linked to the stock market.
This site explains it well:
http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2008/06/derivatives-market-is-unwinding.html
What is the bank bail-out if not socialism? s/m
Maybe you'd have better luck with your employees if you gave them a raise. If you have a profit margin that allows you to give them a 25% bonus, surely a 10% raise wouldn't cause you to suffer too much.
And if we did bail out the auto industry......sm
how much is that going to cost us and where is the money going to come from?
I realize this country's economy is in the toilet at this point and people are hurting everywhere, but my question is, like I said above, where is the money going to come from (I don't believe tax increases on the wealthy are going to cover the tab) and what is going to happen when "they" call in the loans?
I think they shouldn't bail them out. They're
All those crooks in the banking, insurance/HMO industries, and most certainly Wall Street, need to be held accountable, have all of their assets seized to help pay for this, and then they should all be sent to Guantanamo Bay to rot.
445,000 per citizen is the bill for the bail outs.
And what then? The govt will own our homes and regulation will take on a whole new meaning.
This is called fascism.
Since when is a tax cut welfare? Corporate bail-outs, maybe...
corporations and plans to continue W's tax cuts for the rich in 2011. Is that welfare too? Sheesh.
And we bail out Wall St. who created this mess.....
Didja watch House of Cards? That spelled it out pretty succinctly. People were sucked into mortgages they couldn't afford, they were told they could refinance in 1-5 years and keep the mortgage payments they could afford - THEY WERE LIED TO. The bankers and Wall St. had to keep that Ponzi scheme going.......pizza delivery drivers were selling mortgages!! The more they sold, the more money they made - upwards $20,000 per month - they sucked people into refinancing to put cash in their pockets because housing values were skyrocketing.......and it all crashed down. So who did we bail out first? The banks and Wall St.............not the people who got screwed by con men. And these people were not POOR - they just got sucked into buying more house than they could afford. So, stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
While I have to admit that the Republicans started this whole bail out thing...
I really thought we were going to get change with Obama. I didn't vote for him, but this isn't just a continuation of the same old mess, this is adding on to it. You can't blame all of the dems for it, either - there are a couple of repubs signing on as well. I'm pretty sure that this isn't what those who voted for Obama signed on for.
All I can tell you is be sure to write your congressman about this - if you need email addresses or such, go to Congress.org - there's a place to put in your zip code and it gives you the names of all of the reps from your area. Doing that is a much better outlet than attacking each other on this board.
Excellent idea. I'm also charging up my cards, so I hope you bail me out! SM
But wait. If I bail you out and you bail me out and we bail out AIG and the government bails out mortgage-skippers and China bails out the US and...somebody tell me again, where does all this money come from? It's all so confusing.
Foreign investors. China and Russia insisted on Fannie Mac bail out.
dd
They don't want to run the government...
You are exactly right. And that is twisted beyond belief in my opinion. That has absolutely nothing to do with protecting this country or what is best for the country as a whole. It is personal, and like you said, revenge. I wish every state in the nation would do a recall of senators and reps if they start down that road, though I doubt that would ever happen. I saw another post that likened it to fiddling while Rome is burning. They just really do not have a clue. Not a clue.
You bet the government could come up...
with the money to fund the rest. It's called raising taxes, the Democratic mantra. What would Jesus do? I have no doubt that Jesus would say it was the responsibility of parents to take care of their children, for one. I am sure he would also say that a country that murders millions of babies every year has bigger problems than free health care. I am thinking it would be hard to take you seriously. But that is just me.
Don't get me wrong. I think the rest of us should take care of those who truly cannot take care of themselves. I just do not believe this qualifies. Instead of making the hard choices, trying to cut costs, finding better ways to make health care more affordable by tax cuts for those who pay health care premiums, etc., the Democrats want to do what they do so well...dangle something "free" in faces of people at election time. Clinton promised it, and what they came up with was socialized medicine, which went nowhere, thank God. Democrats just want to add entitlement after entitlement, tax us into oblivion and keep us tied to the government apron strings. Otherwise they would look at solutions like tax cuts for those who pay their insurance premiums. But..oh wait. You don't want that. Because you have to pay the premiums to get the tax break, and you don't want to pay the premiums. Pardon me if I don't want to fund that logic.
Truly destitute people, yes, those truly in need we should do everything we can to help them and do. A family of 4 making 80K is not destitute.
How about this. If you want on SCHIP, you have to sign a paper acknowledging they are going to take an additional 3% in income tax on you from now on to offset it. In return you get your "free" health care for your children. No taxes raised on anyone else, including smokers (and no I don't smoke, but I don't think it is any worse asking smokers to pay for expansion of the program if you are not willing to pay for it yourself, after all, you are going to be a user of it).
That sounds like a fine idea to me. Oh, and raise income taxes on all Democrats 3%. That should cover it. Expand the program, users and Democrats pay for it. Sounds like a plan to me. Don't know what you make, but it would surely come to less than $12K a year.
Run that one by your Democratic congressman.
Have a good night!
so let the government tell us??
Sorry, I want less government intervention, not more, in my life.
How do you think the government will
continue to spend when they can't collect taxes to spend because most people don't have jobs and are in need of welfare????? SOOOOO okay, let's keep fighting about party affiliation. *IF* Obama is elected I sure hope he turns out to be the modern day FDR.
Government
When a president decides to buy banks, they call that FASCISM. This is exactly what Bush has done.
Why do you not have a problem with that?
Are all of you so rich that you don't know what the middle class is going through these days? This country is in a shambles, and people are suffering through no fault of their own.
It's HIGH TIME the plight of the middle class is acknowledged and some help offered.
This "trickle-down" theory is NOT working, and it's time to employ the "trickle-UP" theory.
You must really, really like big government...sm
...that will tax and spend us all right into the ground.
I was hoping he pulls to the center, but it's looking like the O is gonna be way, way left of everybody......yeah, real wonderful feeling, that....
Here's hoping the depression doesn't last too long....
Government knows what they are doing.
They are doing all they can to make THEIR life comfortable. As long as they are getting paid and their pockets are getting filled with money......that is all they care about. We can't trust our government. Look at what trusting the government has done to us so far. Our economy is in shambles and the government wants to blow over 800 billion dollars again. This isn't going to fix our economy. It is just going to raise government spending and leave an even bigger deficit than we already had for our grandchildren. This stimulus package is a joke. I am totally against it!
What I want to know is why can't the government start something that would charge companies who outsource production to other countries? Let them open up a factory in another country but they have to pay a huge tax or something to do it. Make it to where it isn't a good financial decision so we can keep the jobs we have now and create more. That would help us MTs out as well. What is the point of creating jobs in our country if companies can still up and leave to go to other countries? Seriously....what is made in America? Even foreign cars like Honda who have factories here in America.....that money still doesn't go to the US. I know it employes Americans but the majority of the money there still goes out of the country. I want American made goods made by Americans. I also think people hiring illegal aliens should be penalized and fined heavily for doing so. That would stop that crap too.
So you would rather government
take your money, just like my money, and put it into a package where it gives money to this group and that group and this group over here and just hope that they use that money wisely and that it helps the people who need help? Like I said before....that worked out swell when we gave money to the banks.
I don't want my money to go for irresponsible people either but you know what....it is and it will. You all talk about how everyone should have healthcare and how government should fund healthcare, through taxpayer money, so everyone is insured. Yet you refuse to give money so people can keep their houses? Yes, some were irresponsible and were just plain dumb in their decisions and yet some just got a raw deal during this tough time and got dragged down.
You all talk about conservatives flipping sides when a handout comes along but it sounds to me like all these liberals want to help others out until it comes time to give that help. Healthcare for all paid by taxpayers. You may not have a home and your kids may not have a warm bed to sleep in....but hey....you got healthcare.....whoooopppeee!
Maybe the government
should legalize marijuana and then tax the he!! out of it too. They could make more money with all the pot smokers out there.
Sad. The Government is going to own all of us.
nm
Do you get that the government is sm
slowly getting more and more into the lives of the people and telling us what to do and how to live our lives?
This is nothing more than a quick road to total government control of everyone.
Just for arguments sake, they get the stupid "permit." That is nothing but money for the county. The county doesn't care about all these rules and neither do the neighbors. If the folks get their permit and things are the same and don't change.....same amount of people, every week, etc etc, don't you think somebody will find something else to complain about regarding this group?
This is a bunch of nonsense and Christian persecution that Jesus himself said would happen in the last days. Wake up.
Not exactly. The government is getting
100 cartons since 2005, not 1981.
So they don't have to pretend to say anything. They've got documentation from the vendors.
Okay...if our government
tries to stop us surfing porn sites....that is where I draw the line. LOL!
If you think the government isn't watching you...think again.
Pay too much and you could raise the alarm
By BOB KERR
The Providence Journal
28-FEB-06
PROVIDENCE, R.I. -- Walter Soehnge is a retired Texas schoolteacher who traveled north with his wife, Deana, saw summer change to fall in Rhode Island and decided this was a place to stay for a while.
So the Soehnges live in Scituate now and Walter sometimes has breakfast at the Gentleman Farmer in Scituate Village, where he has passed the test and become a regular despite an accent that is definitely not local.
And it was there, at his usual table last week, that he told me that he was madder than a panther with kerosene on his tail.
He says things like that. Texas does leave its mark on a man.
What got him so upset might seem trivial to some people who have learned to accept small infringements on their freedom as just part of the way things are in this age of terror-fed paranoia. It's that everything changed after 9/11 thing.
But not Walter.
We're a product of the '60s, he said. We believe government should be way away from us in that regard.
He was referring to the recent decision by him and his wife to be responsible, to do the kind of thing that just about anyone would say makes good, solid financial sense.
They paid down some debt. The balance on their JCPenney Platinum MasterCard had gotten to an unhealthy level. So they sent in a large payment, a check for $6,522.
And an alarm went off. A red flag went up. The Soehnges' behavior was found questionable.
And all they did was pay down their debt. They didn't call a suspected terrorist on their cell phone. They didn't try to sneak a machine gun through customs.
They just paid a hefty chunk of their credit card balance. And they learned how frighteningly wide the net of suspicion has been cast.
After sending in the check, they checked online to see if their account had been duly credited. They learned that the check had arrived, but the amount available for credit on their account hadn't changed.
So Deana Soehnge called the credit-card company. Then Walter called.
When you mess with my money, I want to know why, he said.
They both learned the same astounding piece of information about the little things that can set the threat sensors to beeping and blinking.
They were told, as they moved up the managerial ladder at the call center, that the amount they had sent in was much larger than their normal monthly payment. And if the increase hits a certain percentage higher than that normal payment, Homeland Security has to be notified. And the money doesn't move until the threat alert is lifted.
Walter called television stations, the American Civil Liberties Union and me. And he went on the Internet to see what he could learn. He learned about changes in something called the Bank Privacy Act.
The more I'm on, the scarier it gets, he said. It's scary how easily someone in Homeland Security can get permission to spy.
Eventually, his and his wife's money was freed up. The Soehnges were apparently found not to be promoting global terrorism under the guise of paying a credit-card bill. They never did learn how a large credit card payment can pose a security threat.
But the experience has been a reminder that a small piece of privacy has been surrendered. Walter Soehnge, who says he holds solid, middle-of-the-road American beliefs, worries about rights being lost.
If it can happen to me, it can happen to others, he said.
(Bob Kerr is a columnist for The Providence Journal. E-mail bkerr@projo.com.)
(Distributed by Scripps Howard News Service, www.shns.com.)
Hmm, I would say most do not trust government.sm
Fear and paranoia are a given, they instill it in us 24/7. Viewership of MSM outlets is way down, so I guess Fox would be #1 with just Bush supporters. I want truth and accountability from the media and our elected officials period. I dumped the Republican party because we are not getting truth or accountability. I will vote for the first candidate that does something about it.
I still don't believe government-controlled...
or provided insurance is the answer. Just today read article about how a bunch of women from Canada who had problem pregnancies had to come to the US to have their babies because of the socialized medicine in Canada because...news flash...you can't put a pregnant woman on a waiting list for treatment because babies are born when babies want to be born...and that is what happens when the government administrates health care. Waiting lists...substandard care...and on and on and on. The VA is a government administered health program...go ahead and tell me THAT works. We need to come up with a better plan than socialized medicine...like prioritizing social spending. If you really want to insure all kids, then give their parents a big tax break for insuring them themselves...don't extend entitlements higher and higher up the income ladder. Sorry, but that makes no sense to me. When the troops come home and the war is over, you can talk about that money then. It is nonstarter while we still have troops in combat, no matter who sent them or why (and by the way, it was not George Bush personally, it was your duly elected Congress). We have to fund them while they are in combat. I don't think even the most liberal (no matter what the definition is) would be for withdrawing funding while we still have men and women in combat.
I don't think the government owes me a job
I just don't understand why they go out of their way to send our jobs overseas. The government's job is to protect and serve the American people - not the people of other countries. They need to work for US. The same goes for businesses. If they start ditching American workers for cheaper overseas labor, then who is going to buy all of their products? Americans won't have the money because we'll be jobless!
Yes, but the government shouldn't be
encouraging companies to outsource either. Our country has way messed up priorities when the only people making big bucks are entertainers and greedy CEOs. Meanwhile, we've got unemployed people and poverty. Hey, let's send our money, our technology and our private data to a country that HATES us.
And put in the hands of government?
No thanks. Every time government manages social programs it fails miserably.
The (unregulated) free market is the best way to handle health care another other things.
The problem now is government has their hands too much into the pot with regulation via the insurance companies. You think it's bad now wait until the government has sole control.
Name 1 things Government does well?
1. The post office? Waited in line lately for stamps or to mail a package?
2. Waited in line to renew drivers licence lately?
Compettion is what drives prices down, not mandates form the government
Is that all you got? I think the fact that she can run a government....
which she has been doing, and well too...and still cook for her kids (let the chef go when she was elected), travels on her own dime (got rid of the state jet)...and still have time to see her kids' hockey games is nothing to sneeze at. She does not have to do one to the exclusion of the other. You sound jealous and snippy. Geez.
government controls
the VA system and I know from experience how well that works!!! NOT!! The VA physicians who dealt with my father diagnosed him with an umbilical hernia that turned out to be a huge tumor and he died two weeks later!! He waited for months and months to even get in for a consult through the VA system and that never did happen, as I took him to a local ER and that same day they diagnosed him with end stage colon cancer. He had seen several physicians within the VA system for years. With the government controlling THAT and then they want to control MY healthcare as well? ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? I may have to pay for my insurance but at least I get better healthcare than if the government steps in. I'm so tired of people whining about what the government owes them!! How about people doing for themselves? Everyone goes through hardship. BOOHOO!! I have myself and ya know what???? I got back on my feet by HARD WORK!!! Don't hear me all crying about what the government owes me!!
People need to WAKE UP!!! We all need to take responsibility for ourselves and help who we choose when we choose, not because the government is taking money out of our pockets and telling us who we will help.
VOTE FOR MCCAIN!
Why states' government is just as
Just to narrow their choices down to who they want instead of letting the people decide, as in a free democracy, even the states are changing their rules without the knowledge of its citizens..........
http://www.ronpaulforpresident2008.com/editorials/URGENT_Party_Switching_Deadlines.html
Maybe he should run for some other government office.
He is soooooo right, the less government does,
http://www.eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=3304&title=Ron_Paul_on_Fox_Business_Oct__3rd__2008__Pre_Bailout_
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