Don't agree. His economic plan will...
Posted By: sam on 2008-09-15
In Reply to: Okay. On his worst day, Obama is 10 times the - leader McCain ever was on his best day. -sm
kill what economy is left. How do you give 95% of the country a tax cut when nowhere near that many even pay taxes? He will add a trillion or more to the deficit with all his plans...and how is he going to pay for that with even less tax money coming in? Oh I forgot...he is going to tax those making over $250,000. Which will kill jobs from small businesses who are S corporations (there are thousands of those) and file their income taxes personally and not as a business. Oh well. That's just what they get for being successful...they lose their business or have to downsize. Thank you so much, Mr. Obama. That will put even more people in the lower class because of job losses. If ANYone is going to divide into rich and lower class and no in between, it is Obama.
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McCain economic plan...
Click on the individual windows to get the complete plan.
http://www.johnmccain.com/Issues/jobsforamerica/
Obama's economic plan.......
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Obama's economic plan
Number one, thanks for a thoughtful, relevant topic.
Number two, Obama's plan starts with rolling back the tax breaks for the wealthy that the Bush administration enacted to pre-Bush status and not make them permanent. A big step in the right direction would also be to tax the stratospheric earnings of equity-fund managers as income at 35% rather than as capital gains at 15% (they can surely afford it) and penalize them for moving their funds offshore.
Number three, all bets are off the table in light of the current GLOBAL economic crisis. The Obama administration will be so busy putting out fires they didn't start that it'll be difficult to enact any long-term or short-term economic plan. I know healthcare is a sore subject, but it's a potentially huge stimulus for middle-class folks, and huge stimuli are needed in times of severe GLOBAL recession.
This post is about a coherent as JM's economic plan.
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Brown's Economic Plan in England Mirrors Obama's
As you read the piece (see link below) in the London Times, substitute "Obama" for Brown, and "Geithner" for "Darling". Then multiply the billions in pounds by 1.5 to change them to US dollars. You'll think you're reading about the US plan - and the same catastrophic results, among which the worst are:
1. A burden on future generations of unparalleled and unprincipled proportions.
2. An outflow of investment capital to other countries that do not penalize the engines of the economy.
What struck me about Brown's plan was his "soak the rich" approach, which exactly mirrors Obama's - i.e., hitting the "upper 2%" of the "wealthy". It is more than passing strange to me that this is the precise percentage that Obama proposes - and is equally doubtful. Given Brown's recent meetings with Obama, no one will ever convince me that he didn't get some tutoring from our superclown...er, I mean, superpresident.
Another thing that's striking is how Brown's proposals are structured so that the real pain will be imposed after the elections in GB next year. In Obama's case, most of the real pain has also been scheduled for the "out years" - meaning that the public won't begin to feel them until beyond 2011.
And finally, there is the criticism that Brown's program is based on a lot of rosy "recovery" predictions which are very doubtful. Exactly the same criticism has been leveled at Obama's program, and in our case the criticism has come not from the opposition party but from within the government itself, i.e. the Office of Management and Budget - which is considered to be a very credible source of information on this sort of thing
Cut and paste, or follow the link at the bottom: http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article6168950.ece?Submitted=true
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Poll: In current economic, social and economic
The IDEA of:
- Full employment.
- Shorter work week.
- Guaranteed minimum wage income for all adults.
- Universal social benefits to include health care, child care, vacation time and lifelong access to education and training.
- Programs to ensure gender equality.
- Democratization of our banking and financial system, including popular election for those in charge of public sterwardship in the banking system.
- Employees control over their own pension assets.
- Alternative financial institutions controlled by local community members (similar to credit unions).
Agree and I do not plan on responding to them either
I have better things to do than squander any more of my time responding to the troublemakers posting on this board. When someone here has something worth responding to, I will. There is no point in explaining, defending, or arguing with the people who are only here because they can't find any intelligent discussions on their own board.
Economic Downfall sm
When you have 5 minutes, watch this; it's causing quite a "furor" in the online community! =)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNmcf4Y3lGM
Economic definitions.............
Recession is when your neighbor loses his job.
Depression is when you lose yours.
Recovery is when Obama loses his.
ACORN is definitely an economic issue.....
When thousands of fraudulent voters are going to the polls being counted as a vote, even though they do not truly exist in the first place, and Obama gets elected due to voter fraud, which he himself has paid to help enforce, how do you not see that as affecting our economy?
The majority of those dumb enough to help with the fraud are sadly enough easily led individuals who can't think for themselves and just do what they are told. They help to put a man in office who is going to tax them even more and they don't have the sense to know it! You don't think that affects your economy?
By the way, I am Independent.. McCain does't rock my boat either but Obama makes me want to puke!
We are broke now in an economic meltdown and
post-911 mindset. There is only one way out for those who look forward to what lays beyond that quagmire. I'll give you a hint. It does not involve a right turn.
Probably appointing economic team...
It may seem that he's acting a little early, but given the economic state of this country, I don't think that's such a bad thing.
He also has a parent-teacher meeting just before that...good for him!
Obama not going to attend economic
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Our economic situation is in no way as simple as that...wish it were!.....sm
What Mr. Rogers (love the name!) does not take into account in this equation is that in our particular case, which he did not forsee before his death, I believe, is much different. There are many hardworking, ethical, proud Americans who are very reluctantly receiving "handouts" from the government because there ARE NO JOBS to be had, the bills are due, the house is on the auction block, cannot afford medicine for a sick child, food for a starving family, heat and shelter....there are definitely people who abuse the system and use it as their piggy bank, but nowadays it can be me, you, your neighbor, anyone, no matter how many years you have worked hard, no matter how you have tried, we are in a crisis of almonst UNPRECEDENTED proportions, and still gettin worse. As for the rich, please do not get me started....TAKE from them???? don't you think that they are robbing all the American People and the System when they use all types of tax loopholes not to pay their fair share of taxes, when they move operations overseas for cheap labor and once again to avaid American taxes, when they pay lobbyists, who pay politicians, to look the other way in Congress on bills that would hurt big business but might HELP Amerfican workers???? Okay, I could go on, but I guess you get the idea how this poster feels about that particular quote. All for freedom, yes. But Free Enterprise has become the Evil Empire, as in Star Wars, (okay, hokey analogy!), and until we get that particular 2000 pound elephant out of the room and roasted, we are sunk as a nation.
I used the last economic stimulus check
It was costing me about $25 in quarters every time I went to the laudromat. Not to mention gasoline and time spent not typing. I used the $600 to buy myself a portable washing machine (attaches to sink in kitchen when in use) and a portable drier. They use very little electricity. Washer uses very little water (good thing, now that we're in a major drought), and only a teaspoon of detergent per load. So it's nice to no longer have to pay at the pump and at the 'mat!
Lots of ways to cut down costs and giving our money to the government in taxes. I now pay all my bills online. Costs me nothing. Saves me a stamp (the price of which is going up AGAIN this spring), and the use of a check that i had to pay to have printed.
If they want to send me another $400, I'm sure not gonna complain. As a single renter with no kids, I have ZERO tax breaks. Last year, the I overpaid and Calif. OWED me $300. Then they very conveniently 're-figured' my taxes, and sent me a letter saying I actually made LESS MONEY than I had put on my return, and by their calculations, they didn't owe me anything. (???) If I made less money, but still overpaid the same amount in taxes, shouldn't they owe me MORE? Needless to say, if I owe them this year, they might just be getting a $300 IOU. They can spend their bailout money collecting it from me.
Please share your ideas for economic
What do you think would be the best course of action?
Well, O had the Economic Summit today and
the stock market is tanking again. It's down to -212. I have never seen the INDP as low as today at 7154. I think part of it is because they talked about nationalizing CitiGroup and Bank of America.
We all gonna drown. Hope you all have a life jacket.
And your solution to the economic crisis is???? (nm)
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McCains Top 10 economic crisis strategies.
10. Blissful ignorance. "The economy is not my strong suit."
9. Ridicule. In an interview with the Washington Post on 07/9/2008, McCain advisor and national campaign general co-chair Senator Phil Gramm was defining McCain's plans to reform the U.S. economy. Gramm explained the nation was not in a recession, stating, "You've heard of mental depression; this is a mental recession," and "We have sort of become a nation of whiners, you just hear this constant whining, complaining about a loss of competitiveness, America in decline." This would be the same Phil Gramm of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act which allowed commercial and investment banks to consolidate. The legislation allowed Swiss Bank UBS to purchase several American institutions. Gramm later became a lobbyist for UBS, collecting over 750,000 USD in fees. UBS alone issues over 18 Billion USD in subprime mortgages.
8. Denial. Black Monday, 09/15/2008. John McCain: "The fundamentals of our economy are still sound." A worldwide stock market crash occurred as Lehman Brothers filed Chapter 11 bankruptcy and major investment bank Merrill Lynch was sold to Bank of America. Dow Jones Industrial Average lost more than 500 points, which is the biggest point drop (up to that point) since September 2001. FTSE 100 dropped 212 points, and it was the biggest one-day percentage drop since January 21, 2008. Hong Kong, Japan and Korea stock market suspended that day due to public holiday, and they fell over 5% on the following day. Two weeks later, we had a blacker Monday (09/29/2008) with a 777.68 point drop on the Dow Jones Industrial Average.
7. Political grandstanding. Announcement of suspending his campaign to return to DC to "lead" Congress during economic bail-out negotiations. This effort led to a defeat of the measure when the votes were cast. Tried unsuccessfully to use the bailout as an excuse to postpone the presidential debate.
6. Flip-Flop. Claims to support regulation. Record says otherwise.
5. Incoherence. Threatens to fire the chairman of the SEC if he were in office, even though the president does not have the authority to do so.
4. Theft of intellectual property. Claiming previously existing mortgage buy-out proposal as his own.
3. Avoid / change the subject. Greg Strimple, a McCain top advisor: If we keep talking about the economy, we will lose."
2. Engage the politics of division, hate, fear mongering and cultural warfare with high-gear Obama smear campaign: Ayers, ACORN, Farrakhan, Rev Jeremiah Wright, Barack Hussein Obama, etc.
1. McCain’s send message to voters is to stop whining about the economy and start focusing on attacking Obama.
Obama's economic crisis strategy...
Vote for the bailout....and nothing else. Zip, zilch, nada. Oh, except echo Harry Reid, and I quote: "Nobody knows what to do about this." Well, no **** Sherlock. And STILL doesn't know. Not a clue. All he can say is middle class tax cuts and watch the thrills run up peoples' legs. Would be funny if it weren't so.....
I prefer the definition of economic meltdown.
Ignore it and your campaign will go down in flames.
Perhaps you could enlighten us on the economic crisis suffered by
There is nothing in your chart or context that convincingly explains away the $559 billion dollar surplus Clinton left behind when his term came to an end.
Having said that, most Americans will agree that, when compared to the past 8 years, the middle class enjoyed a prosperous decade in the 90s. I was able to pay off my condo, so it has been foreclosure-proof under W.
Bush is the one that CAUSED this economic meltdown.
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Barney Frank is to blame for the economic
BUT, Barney Frank is to blame for the corrupt government interference in mortgages and forcing banks to loan to people who by no means had any business trying to buy a home!!
Barney Frank has been in Congress since 1981. He has been the head of the Financial Services Committee and has been in charge of pushing all these government regulations onto banks.....
LETS CALL IT LIKE IT IS!!! He's a corrupt SOB and he needs to be kicked out of there! And now he dares to come across suddenly acting as if he is doing EVERYTHING he can to get the banking business flowing again! BULL! He's got them just where he wants them, indebted to the government. WHat happens next? Government run banks....... socialism......governments lending YOU, the citizen, monies, owning you, your family, and everything else in your life.......you need to do YOUR HOMEWORK!
Yes, a start, but economic studies have shown that these will be....sm
long-term down the road, and we are sinking way too fast. I do agree with the grener approach, I am a "tree hugger" from way back, participated in some of the "no Nuke" protest, and am an active member of Save The Bay, as our state is right on the bay, almost an island, and this has been for the past two decades. I guess I am eager for O to stop catering to politics, even though I know it comes with the job, roll up the sleeves, and really get to the meat and bones of the stimulus package, this country is HUNGRY! Did you catch Lisa Ling's National Geographic docomentary on the new homeless shown on Oprah? That truly made me cry, because a decade ago my family was close to being one of them, I cry for the children, "bleeding heart Democrat" that I am at heart!
you don't follow politics/economic very closely then
First - signs were not hateful. Signs were truthful but the Kool-aid drinkers don't want to admit it. You consider calling us teabaggers, hillbillies, and rednecks as perfectly fine, but the minute someone points out that he is following the same path as socialist leaders you label that as "hate". What's worse is other countries are pointing it out too, not just Americans. Unfortunately it's the truth no matter whether you want to believe it or not. Last night I was watching a special about Hitler and his henchmen, and how a lot of people think he escaped. Well listing to the people talk about what he and his henchman did, I kept thinking...wait a minute...that's going on right now - (no not the genocide thing), but the way they ran their government back then. The reason you might have seen those signs on Fox was because there were no other channels covering it. BSNBC and the Communist News Network didn't cover it. Our local channels didn't cover it either. Between 250,000 to 300,000 people attended and they pretended nothing happened. What's amazing is they'll cover a story of some ducks crossing a road in some town I've never heard of, or some little kiddy motor scooter race in another unknown town, but over 2000 cities host the tea parties where there are peaceful demonstrations because people are unhappy with the government and they are excersing their right to freedom of speech (you remember the same things democrats were fighting and pushing for when Bush was in office). But there comes a double standard when only democrats can do it but republicans and independents are suppose to remain subservient and not say anything and let us be starved and unemployed and lose our homes and have to go live in shelters and we're suppose to be happy and never say anything???
As for inciting hate and racism...that is exactly what BSNBC is doing when they have Keith Olbermann show or Rachel Maddow or Chris Matthews. And then to have people like J Gorofool speak her utter hatred and racism and stupidity is unleashed. Now what she and Olbermann and the other clowns at BSNBC do...that there is inciting hate and racism. Pure and simple, no two ways about it. Why don't you actually watch Fox news before critising it. There is no hate and racism. What is racist about saying... I'm sick of congress and government taxing me to death, sending my job overseas, and I'm now having to foreclose on my house. I'm tired of them taking my money in taxes which I have no control over and they are spending it on themselves and their friends. What is racist about that???
Was the Dems economic fallout. Economy was fine
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McCain's top economic advisor says we are in a "mental depression" sm
and additionally says that we are a nation of "whiners.' McCains top economic advisor is Phil Gramm.
How do you feel about these remarks? Additionally have you or someone you know been experiencing tough times in the last year?
More on Barney Frank...he is SO dirty in this economic mess....
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,432501,00.html
I have been wondering when Bush is going to announce an economic emergency. sm
I have been trying to draw people into discussing the economy. People do not respond. I do not know if it is denial or they do not understand.
Those were economic stimulus checks...a one-time deal.
what Obama is proposing is NOT a one-time deal. It will be part of the tax code. BIG difference.
Hmmmm, preparing for the economic challenges AHEAD...
DHL said it was making the cuts to improve profitability and "to prepare the company for the economic challenges ahead."
The company said this latest action would add $1.9 billion to its restructuring costs, for a total of $3.8 billion over two years, most of it during 2008. The company said the cuts would reduce the annual operating costs of DHL U.S. Express to less than $1 billion, from its current cost of $5.4 billion.
DHL is owned by the German company Deutsche Post World Net.
The best explanation I've heard thus far for economic crisis..(sm)
The Real Deal
So who is to blame? There's plenty of blame to go around, and it doesn't fasten only on one party or even mainly on what Washington did or didn't do. As The Economist magazine noted recently, the problem is one of "layered irresponsibility ... with hard-working homeowners and billionaire villains each playing a role." Here's a partial list of those alleged to be at fault:
- The Federal Reserve, which slashed interest rates after the dot-com bubble burst, making credit cheap.
- Home buyers, who took advantage of easy credit to bid up the prices of homes excessively.
- Congress, which continues to support a mortgage tax deduction that gives consumers a tax incentive to buy more expensive houses.
- Real estate agents, most of whom work for the sellers rather than the buyers and who earned higher commissions from selling more expensive homes.
- The Clinton administration, which pushed for less stringent credit and downpayment requirements for working- and middle-class families.
- Mortgage brokers, who offered less-credit-worthy home buyers subprime, adjustable rate loans with low initial payments, but exploding interest rates.
- Former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan, who in 2004, near the peak of the housing bubble, encouraged Americans to take out adjustable rate mortgages.
- Wall Street firms, who paid too little attention to the quality of the risky loans that they bundled into Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS), and issued bonds using those securities as collateral.
- The Bush administration, which failed to provide needed government oversight of the increasingly dicey mortgage-backed securities market.
- An obscure accounting rule called mark-to-market, which can have the paradoxical result of making assets be worth less on paper than they are in reality during times of panic.
- Collective delusion, or a belief on the part of all parties that home prices would keep rising forever, no matter how high or how fast they had already gone up.
The U.S. economy is enormously complicated. Screwing it up takes a great deal of cooperation. Claiming that a single piece of legislation was responsible for (or could have averted) the crisis is just political grandstanding. We have no advice to offer on how best to solve the financial crisis. But these sorts of partisan caricatures can only make the task more difficult.
–by Joe Miller and Brooks Jackson
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/who_caused_the_economic_crisis.html
US 3 hrs away from economic and political collapse in Sept. 2008
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/2/9/234340/6189/142/695504
And we don't have time to spare for total economic collapse....nm
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In the current economic meltdown....he has to inspire confidence...
fortunately for me, I am reaping the benefits of one of his agendas. I would be absolutely THRILLED if he can accomplish it all within the time limits he has imposed upon himself - but, he has an army of congress to aid our progress - how much will the pubs obstruct? I guess we will have to wait to see. I could pisss in my cheerios and embrace your negativity but I'd rather go to bed and have fabulous sex with my husband - we have something to celebrate.
Except unemployment is far from our ONLY economic problem, the WORLD economy is tanking....sm
starting with the stock market crash in the USA, we are a global economy now, like it or now. There are so many other indicators, such as the national debt and defict, the fall of the gross national product and gross domestic product, what we have now is pretty much unprecedented since the Great Depression in its economic scope. Never seen so many bankruptcies by long-established businesses, total collapse of so many lenders, our auto industry on the brink.....it goes on and on, yet people would rather doom EVERYTHING that the President would do. They say the definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over again and expecting a different outcome, so how about we all work together with the adminiistration to stop banging out heads on the old, worn out, atrocious economic system and try to build a new, stronger, wiser economy? Less credit, more productivity, the end of GENERATIONAL WELFARE as a lifestyle, employ caseworkers to search out all these families that have made Welfare a cottage industry in their homes, that way we are employing skilled social workers, and also cutting out social waste and parasites? Just a start...........
Plan B.
I can't imagine Bush releasing funds intended for the banks and insurance companies to be released to the auto industry without imposing more stringent conditions on the UAW workers than the republican caucus and parochial southern senators have already tried to enact. Gettelfinger stands behind his "bankruptcy is not an option" statement. If Bush does not step forward, looks like liquidation could be just around the corner. JMHO.
bad plan
I do believe our senators need to go focus on this crisis, but, a few hours spared for a debate is not a waste of time. The election is close and people need to hear what both of the candidates have to say.
More on O's plan for
What I had in mind was his proposal to eliminate capital gains taxes for start-up and small businesses, the making work pay tax credit to help reduce the double taxation paid by self-employed (that "special" self-employment tax you pay if you are an IC) and the proposed $250 million annual investment in the National Network of Business Incubators designed to increase the number and size of small businesses.
Here's part of the answer to the earlier question about small businesses and health insurance cost/fine. He proposes a Small Business Health Tax Credit program of up to 50% of the premiums they pay for health care benefits for their employees. If you want to read more, here's the link:
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/SmallBusinessFINAL.pdf
Under O's plan, you will keep more of it.
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That's not a bad plan
But the article itself says that France does not have socialized medicine - it's something completely different, especially with the lowered malpractice insurance and the tuition-free universities. I don't see that anything like that would be set up in the US, do you? It's not a bad idea, though. Definitley something to think about.
LOL. I like that plan.
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God has a plan for everything
His main objective is that none of us die but, as loving as He is, He gives us choices. Many of us will make the wrong choice and die for it.
health plan
I have an idea, why doesnt Bush stop waging immoral wars and use our tax dollars for something constructive and life saving, like health coverage for those who die each year without it? You know why I would love a universal health plan? Because I care about my brother and sister and I care about making every Americans life better. Of course, you conservatives care about no one but yourselves. You make a few bucks, buy a home in a gated community, take the other streets so you dont pass the ghetto..and yet you claim you are christian..that is the most hypocritical statement of all. Do you not realize if Jesus walked this earth today, he would be a liberal democrat, helping the poor, the starving, the sick, the homeless, accepting all. Im so glad Im a liberal democrat. I dont think I could look at myself in the mirror or get a good nights sleep knowing my ideology is actually harming America, not helping it one bit.
Obama's plan
I assume you watched both conventions????? I watched the Dems and now I'm watching the Pubs. I am an INDEPENDENT. I would support Obama were it not for my research of the church he has been associated with for 20 years. This church, in my humble opinion, belongs to an extreme, radical, racist group. We don't need that in the White House. With the exception of illegal immigration, he pretty much addressed all the things that I feel are important to the future of my children and grandchildren and were it not for his affiliation with his chosen church, I would probably vote for him. . At least he had the good sense to select a person as his running mate who actually might be "ready on day one" to lead this country.
Secondly, again in my humble opinion, McCain has a few screws loose rattling around upstairs. He answers every question, even about how many houses he owns, with something like, "well, the longest time I spent anywhere was when I was a POW." Other than that it has been all about bashing Obama and his not having "experience." Then look what he did. Picked a little-known female who has been abroad exactly once and tries to pass her off as "experienced." Truth: She is a female and her state is the second largest producer of oil. Bush governed the biggest oil producing state. Enjoying those prices at the pumps? To this point all the pub speakers have pushed McCain's war record. What????? Do we need more war? I think a peacemaker would be better.
Now, before anyone pounces on me, I support NEITHER of these candidates and NEITHER will receive my vote. Either way, the middle class Americans, to which I expect most MTs belong, lose. Our government will change when and if the majority of Americans quit using their heads as a hatrack for the Democrat and Republican parties, kick them out and bring back government "of the people, by the people and for the people." Won't happen this time but maybe next time won't be too late.
OK. Let's rephrase. How does JM's new plan
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Obama's tax plan
First of all, let me say I was undecided on this election until yesterday. Obama's tax plan scares me to death. I heard him on an interview yesterday, and he said that the top 5% of the country could *afford to help out those less fortunate to us*, meaning those that make above $200,000. He also said that someone making under $45,000 would *probably* not have to pay income taxes, because all the tax revenue would be generated from the top 5% of the country, again, who could *afford* to help out his fellow man.
So, here's my question. If I work my BUTT off making a great living for my family, who the heck is he to say I have to share it? My husband and I put ourselves through school to get a good education for ourselves, searched for good jobs, worked more than one sometimes, and enjoy or standard of living, because we worked hard for it and EARNED it. How dare he suggest that I have to share that with ANYONE, just because they dont' have as much. We give to quite a few neighborhood organizations and national charities, we do not keep every penny for ourselves.
If he does get elected and puts this new plan in place, why would people work hard to make a good living if quite a bit chunk of it is going to be taken away? Why not just sit back, work as little as you want, stay under that $40,000 radar, not pay income taxes, and have the government give you some other *rich* guy's money because you don't have as much?
This really made my mind up for me. It's time this county taught some personal responsibility and accountability, and I do not think he is the one for the job!
And so how exactly does McCain plan to fix
He could sell Alaska to the Japanese. They need the land & the natural resources, and they most definitely have the money.
McCain's plan...
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/19ba2f1c-c03f-4ac2-8cd5-5cf2edb527cf.htm
Not as described above.
Obama's Plan:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/
They seem very similar to me...big difference is Obama wants the government to control it and McCain wants individuals to control their own health care. I don't see a problem with that.
Which is why I am still voting McCain.
if you plan on voting
you will need to keep things like OBAMA and OSAMA straight. The political system was based on the assumption that voters would know the difference between a tall black man running for president and a tall man in a sheet running for cover. Study up. Only a few more weeks . . . I'm betting you can do it.
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