Fear is that they will still collapse even after the bail out.
Posted By: I agree on 2008-10-01
In Reply to: we all pay - hang on a minute
Hedge funds are about to fold. Derivatives which I do not understand are a whole other ballgame - They are what made the hedge fund managers millionaires - it is like betting on stocks (as one would with football) and is somehow linked to the stock market.
This site explains it well:
http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2008/06/derivatives-market-is-unwinding.html
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My fear is that if we bail them out
what have they learned. They obviously won't have any consequences to their actions. We will be the ones to suffer for their greed and crimes. However, what is to become of us if we don't bail them out? I really don't know the answer to this. I am just thoroughly ticked off that our government has allowed things to get like this. Now they are sitting around crying and whining, pointing fingers, wanting special interests included in the bill, etc. I'm just so disgusted.
collapse of levees known for years
I love New Orleans, been there twice..about six months ago I started reading articles on the effects of hurricanes, etc., on New Orleans. A few of the articles warned that New Orleans would have major flooding if there was a big hurricane and the levees could not hold the water. This has been known for a long time..but, once again, Bush twisted the truth, shaping it to meet his agenda and save his butt.
Our 'economy' SHOULD collapse - it was based
even richer at our expense. Everything about the last 8 years was a lie and a travesty. They finally pushed the middle class to the brink of extinction. Now that the middle class finally couldn't support the Rich anymore, they voted someone into office who's calling them out. Sure they're mad as he11. I think this is only the beginning. Will it hurt everyone? Including those of us that voted for a democratic president. You bet. This near-depression has gone on for so long that it likely will continue for years, not just months. You can blame the dems all you want, but next time you cant pay your rent or your heating bill, just remember that the ones who are keeping you down are all those in the Rich Boys' Club (including your current employers) because for all these years our government was giving them a free ride to do whatever they wanted. Our top-heavy, 'trickle-down', step-on-the-little-guy economy was way overdue for a major correction. It DESERVES to fail.
This is how you collapse a "free" society and it becomes
))
US 3 hrs away from economic and political collapse in Sept. 2008
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/2/9/234340/6189/142/695504
And we don't have time to spare for total economic collapse....nm
x
Fear Mongerer? Obama? McCain and Cheney were fear mongerer
and they STILL ARE !
war, depression, recession, collapse of financial system, people losing
homes, natural disasters unattended to, collapsing bridges, earmark bridges. Address those first, save flag for later.
A *fear tactic* . . .What is to fear in a
bother you!
Well, it would not have been necessary to bail out...
FM/FM had the Democrats running it not stolen it blind, and the "reform" bill the Dems passed that nailed the coffin shut.
Obama dogged and hounded by the media? Are you JOKING? Any interview he did was on the softball channels where he never got a real question...were you even watching? He would not go on Fox where he knew he would have to answer the tough questions until this week. Hounded by the press my eye...only to fawn over him. Sheesh...lol
do you think they should just bail out
what kind of solution do you propose?
we bail out ceo's ......
It's okay to pump billions into the auto industry and wall street but not into our own people?
So what happens when we bail them out?
See! We bail out the big guys and the money goes straight to the CEOs that ran the company into the ground, rewarding their incompetence! Oh, lets hurry and bail out the automakers too!
WASHINGTON - American International Group is paying out millions of dollars in executive bonuses to meet a Sunday deadline. But the troubled insurance giant has agreed to administration demands to restrain future payments.
The Treasury Department determined that the government did not have the legal authority to block the current payments by the company that has already received more than $170 billion in U.S. support.
AIG declared earlier this month that it had suffered a loss of $61.7 billion for the fourth quarter of last year, the largest corporate loss in history.
Here's what happens when we bail them out: sm
AIG accepted our money after losing 60 billion, and guess what? They are paying out 167 million in bonuses. Why is this allowed to happen? How can you lose that much money, accept money in bailouts, and then have the unmitigated gall to pay yourselves bonuses? This is UNACCEPTABLE!! Out and out thievery!!
Do you think our government should bail out FM/FM
Just wondered what everyone thinks about this subject. I haven't seen it discussed yet and if it has been sorry. Do you think the government should bail out these two institutions and if so, or not so, why?
I heard someone on the TV today (didn't recognize the name but he's an idependent) he asked the question, so is it going to be the people who make $30K a year the ones who pay for this or the billionaires and trillionaires? I thought that was a good point.
Also I heard that one of the guys in charge (forget his name right now) made over $90 million and he isn't paying anything. I would think that if you make over $90M on this and you run it into the ground you should have to forfeit whatever you made and pay it back (but that's my own opinion).
the bail out really irks me
I think they should just let them fail and use the 700 billion or whatever it is to try and clean up the fallout from this mess. These greedy b@$st@rds need to deal with the consequences. I really don't get it. I thought you had to have mortgage insurance if you didn't have enough down. My sister has to pay for mortgage insurance, and it's highly unlikely that she is going to default on her mortgage (for one thing, she bought what she could afford). And as far a people losing their homes, well maybe they should move into homes they can afford anyway. There are nice 1-bedroom apartments in Harrisburg for $540, including utilities. Sounds good to me. grrrr....
The reason behind the bail out is
to put money back into the market. If we do nothing at all, the result is likely to be horrific. We have to do something to get money back into the market. However, bailing out these big banks and making us foot the bill is unacceptable to me. These banks and their big wigs should learn the consequences of their actions and not just walk away with a heck of a lot more money than I will ever see in my lifetime. This initial bail out is just a band-aid really. Our economy is collapsing and this bail out will slow down the collapse but there is no guarantee that it will stop it.
Right now they are debating about how to go about this bail out. Some want the bail out left like it is with us taxpayers footing the bill. Others are trying to come up with a plan to not make the burden on us and yet still get money into the market. That is why no agreement has been made.
Is anyone actually in favor of the bail out?
I personally think that we should just let the banks fail and not save their greedy banker butts. It seems like that's the way a lot of other people feel too. I haven't heard one person say let's save their greedy banker butts. However, I'm pretty sure that congress will bail them out. If I could vote on this, I would definitely say no, no matter what consequence to myself (drop in stock, retirement and possibly the value of my home, no loan for college next semester).
Are there any average Americans out there that are for this?
bail out the world?
So we have to borrow our own money so we can bail out the world? Call your Senator.
Auto bail out s/m
Read the following report. 8-10% of total cost doesn't seem like a huge percentage for labor costs. Maybe they can't afford the big salaries and bonuses for the top dogs? About time the wealth started being redistributed. Funny I haven't heard any outrage over the outrageous salaries the top dogs in these automobile business are paid. Just whining about how much the UAW workers are paid. It's about time the working class started standing up for the working class!!!!!
Let 'em all go bankrupt. I have no doubt the idjits in Washington are way more concerned about job losses in "developing countries" than those of American citizens.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081115/ap_on_bi_ge/auto_bailout_gettelfinger
Did you see where if we bail out the automakers - see msg
There are people that are laid off and have been laid off for years that are drawing $31 an hour to just sit in a room - they play checkers, they read, they watch TV, or they sleep and stare at the walls. It is a guaranteed thing that cannot be stopped except through bankruptcy (and they may have to pay them off even then). So in effect, if we bail out the automakers, we who are struggling to make our money in this world will be paying those people to keep sitting there!!! 
How many think you should bail out illegal
what would that matter? you want to bail them out?
nm
I don't think we should bail out anyone's mortgage.
Anyone who took out a mortgage and signed a contract to repay the loan and needs to do so. I don't care if they are illegal aliens, legal aliens, space aliens, or United States citizens.
bail out.. Amen, sam. Disgusted with
the whole dang bunch of them, for sure. As far as this bail out goes, I think those at the top who made so many millions and apparently will just go on, should be treated the same way as Ken Lay and others of Enron fame. They should pay it back, confiscate their new homes and boats or whatever they have bought, do jail time and be forced out of their elite positions. Of course, by the time congress does an investigation they will no longer be around anyway. But I do not think they should continue to give away our jobs to nontax paying people and still fall back on the age old answer of taxing us. Even my math is better than that!
What is the bank bail-out if not socialism? s/m
Maybe you'd have better luck with your employees if you gave them a raise. If you have a profit margin that allows you to give them a 25% bonus, surely a 10% raise wouldn't cause you to suffer too much.
And if we did bail out the auto industry......sm
how much is that going to cost us and where is the money going to come from?
I realize this country's economy is in the toilet at this point and people are hurting everywhere, but my question is, like I said above, where is the money going to come from (I don't believe tax increases on the wealthy are going to cover the tab) and what is going to happen when "they" call in the loans?
I think they shouldn't bail them out. They're
All those crooks in the banking, insurance/HMO industries, and most certainly Wall Street, need to be held accountable, have all of their assets seized to help pay for this, and then they should all be sent to Guantanamo Bay to rot.
445,000 per citizen is the bill for the bail outs.
And what then? The govt will own our homes and regulation will take on a whole new meaning.
This is called fascism.
Since when is a tax cut welfare? Corporate bail-outs, maybe...
corporations and plans to continue W's tax cuts for the rich in 2011. Is that welfare too? Sheesh.
And we bail out Wall St. who created this mess.....
Didja watch House of Cards? That spelled it out pretty succinctly. People were sucked into mortgages they couldn't afford, they were told they could refinance in 1-5 years and keep the mortgage payments they could afford - THEY WERE LIED TO. The bankers and Wall St. had to keep that Ponzi scheme going.......pizza delivery drivers were selling mortgages!! The more they sold, the more money they made - upwards $20,000 per month - they sucked people into refinancing to put cash in their pockets because housing values were skyrocketing.......and it all crashed down. So who did we bail out first? The banks and Wall St.............not the people who got screwed by con men. And these people were not POOR - they just got sucked into buying more house than they could afford. So, stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
While I have to admit that the Republicans started this whole bail out thing...
I really thought we were going to get change with Obama. I didn't vote for him, but this isn't just a continuation of the same old mess, this is adding on to it. You can't blame all of the dems for it, either - there are a couple of repubs signing on as well. I'm pretty sure that this isn't what those who voted for Obama signed on for.
All I can tell you is be sure to write your congressman about this - if you need email addresses or such, go to Congress.org - there's a place to put in your zip code and it gives you the names of all of the reps from your area. Doing that is a much better outlet than attacking each other on this board.
Excellent idea. I'm also charging up my cards, so I hope you bail me out! SM
But wait. If I bail you out and you bail me out and we bail out AIG and the government bails out mortgage-skippers and China bails out the US and...somebody tell me again, where does all this money come from? It's all so confusing.
Foreign investors. China and Russia insisted on Fannie Mac bail out.
dd
Fear
Fear is a rational response when based on facts. It has enabled humans to survive throughout history, giving us the sense to run from something that is dangerous and encouraging us to use our wits to make good decisions to ensure our future survival. It was your fellow committed dems below who said their reasoning for not liking Palin is because "she creeped them out" and they don't like her voice. Is that the type of voters we want?
Nothing to fear
abide by the law. Why does that scare you?
I fear you are right.
They will be back under this administration. That, however, doesn't mean they are any good. it just means they will be there. Then we shall see whether they help or harm.
More fear??
 I absolutely agree with you. It seems that the harder Obama works to clean up the mess left by Bush the more ridiculous over-the-top the accusations get from the Repubs and Conservatives. Really, it is okay to not agree with Obama but come on-if you need to b***h, at least make it real. Trying to increase unemployment to wipe out capitalizism?? Puleez!!
Politics of fear?
Intrigued by what is scaring you and why. A few questions. Politics of fear. Which party embodies and promotes this concept? Why? Whose agenda does it serve? Who benefits? More importantly, who doesn't? Visions of terrorists licking their chops with itchy trigger fingers? Where is this coming from? Media? Party rhetoric? Bush/Cheney/McCain? If you think they will attack "no matter who the president will be" then the politics of fear and its manipulation is working well on you and we are all doomed to repeat that anguish. So you fight fear with more fear and leave that weapon in the hands of a hot head? Does that scare you more or make you feel more safe? Do you want to base your vote on a surrender to fear?
Now, how about that other conference table vision? You fear the Obama cult? What is it that they are following? Hope? Vision? A different approach? What does the alternative have to offer? An alliance of diplomacy?
While doing your research, it might help you to go to the following link and read it in it's entirety, including all the links embedded under At a Glance. Would be very interested if you are still having those visions and feeling as frightened after your research.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/foreignpolicy/#diplomacy
The fear of Obama --
Why do some people think that 1 person can change everything? I've read comments on various sites, injecting fear that Obama is the one they speak of in Revelations, that he is a muslim trying to infiltrate this country from the inside out.
I hope that if anything can be learned by this recent economic situation, it is that 1 person, even the "top dog", can't bring about a change unless everyone else is on board. Pres Bush himself couldn't even get this bill passed. If he's top dog and he can't make that kind of change, why the fear that Obama could?
Excuse me, but we should fear someone who has a
nm
fear machine
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2008/10/01/ldt.tucker.economy.cnn
Here is where that comes from......fear factor
Brad Sherman is right....sorry bunch of cowardly people we put in there who brown-nose out of nothing more than fear that they feed on with each other. Nothing written in cement.....just the fear factor!
http://revolutionarypolitics.com/
Fear mongering. Do you ever have anything...sm
positive to say? You are the one who is marching in lock step with the republican party. There are good, average and bad in each party. No one is all bad or all good. Get it?
Obama knows the fear everyone has
He knows everyone is so worried about the economy that many will ignore his associations, his true feelings and where they lie. Unfortunately, many are doing just that.
I fear for his life.
I truly do worry about Barrack Obama for the simple fact that there are nut jobs out there who would rather he be killed than take the presidency. We've already had one plot to take his life. I hate to say that I believe there will be more. I will not be voting for Barrack Obama and I do believe he is a liar and will drag this country down into the dumps, but I do not wish him any harm.
If, God forbid, something horrible should happen to Barrack Obama....I believe it will tear our country apart. It will segregate us and racism will become even worse than it is now. We could potentially have our own civil war started with all of this.
The only thing we have to fear is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uwOL4rB-go
I really think that this is a ridiculous fear. sm
Should it happen, feel free to say, "I told you so." But I really think that you are all being just about as ridiculous as those saying the Obama is the antichrist. Neither is very likely in my opinion.
Smear = Fear
xx
Another lie. Another SMEAR=FEAR.
Please stop spreading lies.
Sorry, didn't mean to cause fear...(sm)
It sounds to me like the contractors may be able to get out before this is implemented......Hopefully they all will.
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