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I've got some major gas here - everyone stand back.

Posted By: Kaydie on 2008-04-19
In Reply to: Caption - ??

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This is a day for us to simply step back and stand together
progressives, conservatives liberals and the like...just simply as Americans, waking up and greeting the dawn of a new day.
Hon, I'm a political major and history major...
xx
She must've had to fly back home and
;D
I've missed you. Welcome back, some sanity. nm
,

We've decided to sit back and watch
turn the forum back over to the tribal warriors. Our work is done here. For the record, he'll be raising taxes ON HIMSELF, for Pete's sake.
george will a major, major

conservative with vast influence for years and years.  Can't minimize this devastating blow no matter how much you try to defect subject to joe biden.


 


we have had 4 major

catastrophes in the last 8 years due to republican/conservative ideology of little to no government.  911, katrina, iraq war, wall street collapse, etc.  We have serious issues to deal with now.  Symbols can wait for the return of the good times under democratic LEADERSHIP.


 


Yes, there will be major job losses now /NM
N/M
Not skirting the major issues

It is just that our major issues differ immensely.


1.  I did read the article, and many more besides.  I did not state implicitly that we should model our healthcare system identical to France or Canada, it was only meant to represent that healthcare reform can work, that it is needed in this country, and that for the average individual to start seriously looking at it. There are great programs out there and there is absolutely no reason why we cannot take the best of them and create a whole new better system.


2. Yes, there will be some physicians who do not like the change, just as there will be citizens who do not like the change.  However, stating that they will not be willing to take a pay cut for the greater good of their patients is very narrow minded.  I helped recruit them to work in academic medicine and the VA system and never had a shortage of as you put it "the most brilliant minds of medicine" applying for those positions when they could have very easily went into the private sector for more money.  Furthermore, stating that if there were free tuition based medical schools, that the quality of our physicians would go down is an absolutely ignorant statement to make.  I cannot begin to fathom that line of thinking.  In those countries where tuition is either free based or fully reimbursed are creating a large percentage of "the most brilliant minds of medicine". 


3.  I never stated that socialized healthcare is not fraught with problems.  Our healthcare system is fraught with just as many. You cannot argue the statistics that in those countries where there is socialized healthcare, the citizens themselves are satisfied with it.  I believe the latest statistics are 78% of French citizens are satisified.  Granted there are issues on the table now in France, but many are stating that is because there is a creeping privatisation that is to be blamed.  My relatives in Montreal have no complaints, and they are the average middle class citizens.  And there is a very small percentage who are falling through the cracks compared to much more of your fellow Americans who are falling through our cracks.


5.  Insurance companies are driving are healthcare whether you chose to believe it or not.  Right now all across the United States there are insurance representatives walking the halls, looking through your patient records, deciding on the spot whether it is feasible for you to receive certain treatment or to stay an extra day, in which your physician will have to argue to ensure that you, the patient, is receiving the best care that he/she feels you deserve.  But because the money is not coming out of your pocket, who is to care right?


6. And last but not least, to make the leap that socialized medicine will lead to socialized government is ludicrous.  All I can say is what? 


One major question for you about your post...sm
Where is the $250M that O wants to put out coming from? and the $500 he plans to give away?? Oh, I know...he'll just have the Treasury print more money. You need to seriously read more than Wikipedia. Try the IRS filings for starters. If O is elected, we are in for an even more slippery slope for our government.
The major difference between Christians and...
radical Islam is free choice...it is your choice whether or not to accept Christ...we do not chop off heads. THAT is my way or the highway.
Not just my job, DH is the major earner. We shouldn't be.
penalized for working hard.
obama is ahead in all major

polls. Sympathy not required.


 


You will be glad they are there if we have a major attack...
like a gas attack, a major bombing, dirty bomb, etc. They are trained to handle that situation. The National Guard is not...hence what happened at Kent State. If you would prefer, lobby your congress to have your national guard trained to do this RATHER than the army. Did you ever stop and think this is yet another deterrent to any terrorists who might think about attacking us again? They have faced our military and our military put them on the run. I think it is a great idea. The army are not a bunch drooling bully wingnuts out to strip your civil liberties. They are trying to PROTECT your rights and your physical personf or that matter. They are invested in protecting this nation. they are better equipped to do that than the national guard is.
It sure does, rightly so; here is the major difference I am seeing....sm
Those of us with the temerity to criticize the Bush years and doctrine are met with blind, sickening loyalty, more total denial than a stadium full of junkies, and this is after watching the last 8 years!....Now a new man comes in, yes young, yes not as experienced as I personally wanted, but with new ideas, because all the past doctrines were so tragic and poisonous to the country, and BEFORE HE EVEN TAKES OFFICE or can even get ANYTHING off the ground, he is being criticized and maligned daily here.....heck, many people here have magic crystals balls and keep telling us to watch the doomsday that is about to happen. Now, a wise person can learn from the past, but how can you not call it blind partisanship when Pubs here just keep singing the praises of King George II and dooming the new President and his entire FUTURE legacy?
Right. Isn't his what major Bloomberg in New York was doing?
And now he is running for his 3rd term!
Is also against the Constitution.
Right. Isn't his what major Bloomberg in New York was doing?
And now he is running for his 3rd term!

It was reported on all the major news
All I have do to know what will be posted on this form is watch Fox commentators and read a few conservative websites. All some of you do is regurgitate the half-truths and out-right lies spoon fed to you by people with an agenda. Think for yourselves once in a while.
34 major scandals during bush's first term

 


 


34 Major Scandals during Bush's first term:

 


 

Again, you are skirting the major issues and the cost...
did you read all the France article? Their physicians make two-thirds less than ours...and why? Because there is no medical school tuition in France. Can you imagine what would happen to this country's quality of care if you made medical schools no tuition? Can you see Cornell Medical School, Harvard Medical School to name just two, schools who graduate the most brilliant minds in medicine...going to a no-tuition basis? How are they going to be able to train physicians with only government doled-out money to support them? The quality of physician in this country, followed rapidly by the quality of care would tank. If you come from academic medicine, ask those physicians how they feel about no tuition medical school and having their fees capped. Go ahead and ask them.

Our own socialized care is substandard. Articles every day about VA Hospitals and the deplorable conditions in many of them. Veterans having to wait weeks and months for appointments, etc. I know. I have seen the system at work. The government cannot oversee the socialized programs they have now. Medicare and Medicaid are both rife with waste and fraud. We all know this. Because the government cannot oversee them the way they should. And you want to extend this to every person in the US? Look at this reality-based. It is a fiasco in the making.

I am sure the Canadians and the UK thought it would be wonderful too. In the first months it may have been. However, things get skewed when the cost starts to catch up. That is when you end up with a population having over HALF their income taken off the top in taxes to feed the fatted calf. You will note that the article said France was considering taxing both earned and unearned income to feed THEIR calf. When that happens, ask the French how they feel about socialized medicine.

I don't know where you get that healthcare costs are driven by insurance companies. That is nuts. They don't set the fees doctors, clinics, drug companies, yada yada, charge. In fact, it was some of the organized insurance companies, like HMOs, who went to clinics, physicians, etc., to negotiate deals for their consumers...so that those clinics would accept a certain rate for their services. The clinics would agree to less than their normal fees in order to get the business of that HMO. That is the free market WORKING. The clinic I go to for my care, when I get a bill, the insurance company shows what they charged, what they paid, and in nice bold letters at the bottom it says that I am not responsible for the difference because the clinic agreed to that amount for that service, regardless of what their normal charge is.

So, yes, in a way insurance companies do drive health care...but in a good way in my case, and I am sure in other cases across this country, if people would just open their eyes and look.

What this appears to be, on the face of it, is that people just do not want to pay for their own insurance, they want to turn it into yet another entitlement...the biggest one ever. If they want to let the government control them to that extent...more power to them. These same people who want to give up their personal right to control their own health care are the same people that complain about civil liberties and wiretapping. Don't tap my phone, but go ahead and take my health care completely out of my hands as long as you pay for it I don't have to.

No thanks. I do not want to be tied to the government for my health care and I do not want them making my decisions for me. One thing leads to another and before long the government (or more specifically, the Democrats) have you tied to them for your every need. Then, my friends, they have you. You will be living in a socialist country. And if that looks good to you...look at Venezuela. Look at the disparity there between those in power and the "people." Look at Cuba. Look at what socialist Germany turned into before World War II. Please look at history, folks. Socialism always evolves into a dictatorship. Always. Because once they have you dependent upon them for your every need...all I am saying is be careful what you ask for.
Where should president be while major US city drowns?
nm
She has a major superiority complex, doesn't she?
Pathetic, actually.
NO! Major corporate & CEO greed & mismanagement
Same thing happened to Mervyn's Dept. Stores... greedy big company bought them up, then ran them into the ground. They were great stores, too.

No tears shed here for the corporate shake-outs going on in many industries: Auto, financial, stock market, power, etc. I just hope they eventually grab the HEALTH CARE industry by the scruff of the neck and give it a good shaking, as well. NO PITY HERE.
I think a major issue people ignore...(sm)

is why we are a target of terrorism.  US policies towards the middle east thus far have been nothing less than selfish.  What US news doesn't tell you about is how these policies actually affect people living there, and more often than not it is devastating.  That is where it began.


Granted, regardless of how we got here, we're in the middle of it right now and actions should be taken, but not actions like those that have been taken by the Bush administration.  The prisoners at Gitmo are a prime example.  They should have tried these people to see if they even needed to be there instead of holding them with no charges and torturing them.  The ones who are guilty should have gone through the legal system and suffered the consequences whether it be death or imprisonment. 


Here's what I see.  We went into Iraq on false pretenses about WMDs.  We found that to be false, so the cause was changed to saving the people of Iraq from a dictator -- a brutal dictator at that.  We were supposed to be providing them with democracy.  So, what do you think the Iraqi people think of us now?  Have we killed as many people as Saddam did yet?  Have we tortured people just like Saddam did?  Yes.  So, in their eyes, if this is now democracy, how much better is it than what they started out with?


If we are to set the standard by which other democracies use as a guideline, we need to get it right, and that includes respecting the culture, religion and social norms of other countries instead of trying to make them into something they are not.


I think a major issue people ignore...(sm)

is why we are a target of terrorism.  US policies towards the middle east thus far have been nothing less than selfish.  What US news doesn't tell you about is how these policies actually affect people living there, and more often than not it is devastating.  That is where it began.


Granted, regardless of how we got here, we're in the middle of it right now and actions should be taken, but not actions like those that have been taken by the Bush administration.  The prisoners at Gitmo are a prime example.  They should have tried these people to see if they even needed to be there instead of holding them with no charges and torturing them.  The ones who are guilty should have gone through the legal system and suffered the consequences whether it be death or imprisonment. 


Here's what I see.  We went into Iraq on false pretenses about WMDs.  We found that to be false, so the cause was changed to saving the people of Iraq from a dictator -- a brutal dictator at that.  We were supposed to be providing them with democracy.  So, what do you think the Iraqi people think of us now?  Have we killed as many people as Saddam did yet?  Have we tortured people just like Saddam did?  Yes.  So, in their eyes, if this is now democracy, how much better is it than what they started out with?


If we are to set the standard by which other democracies use as a guideline, we need to get it right, and that includes respecting the culture, religion and social norms of other countries instead of trying to make them into something they are not.


Another note:  You are saying that terror should be met with like force.  So, should Bush be waterboarded?


FEMA needs a major overhaul...Doctor says FEMA ordered him to stop treating hurricane victims.
Doctor says FEMA ordered him to stop treating hurricane victims



In the midst of administering chest compressions to a dying woman several days after Hurricane Katrina struck, Dr. Mark N. Perlmutter was ordered to stop by a federal official because he wasn't registered with the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

I begged him to let me continue, said Perlmutter, who left his home and practice as an orthopedic surgeon in Pennsylvania to come to Louisiana and volunteer to care for hurricane victims. People were dying, and I was the only doctor on the tarmac (at the Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport) where scores of nonresponsive patients lay on stretchers. Two patients died in front of me.

I showed him (the U.S. Coast Guard official in charge) my medical credentials. I had tried to get through to FEMA for 12 hours the day before and finally gave up. I asked him to let me stay until I was replaced by another doctor, but he refused. He said he was afraid of being sued. I informed him about the Good Samaritan laws and asked him if he was willing to let people die so the government wouldn't be sued, but he would not back down. I had to leave.

FEMA issued a formal response to Perlmutter's story, acknowledging that the agency does not use voluntary physicians.

We have a cadre of physicians of our own, FEMA spokesman Kim Pease said Thursday. They are the National Disaster Medical Team. ... The voluntary doctor was not a credentialed FEMA physician and, thus, was subject to law enforcement rules in a disaster area.






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A Coast Guard spokesman said he was looking into the incident but was not able to confirm it.

Perlmutter, Dr. Clark Gerhart and medical student Alison Torrens flew into Baton Rouge on a private jet loaned by a Pennsylvania businessman several days after Katrina hit. They brought medicine and supplies with them. They stayed the first night in Baton Rouge and persuaded an Army Blackhawk helicopter pilot to fly them into New Orleans the next day.

I was going to make it happen, the orthopedic surgeon said. I was at Ground Zero too, and I had to lie to get in there.

At the triage area in the New Orleans airport, Perlmutter was successful in getting FEMA to accept the insulin and morphine he had brought. The pharmacist told us they were completely out of insulin and our donation would save numerous lives. Still, I felt we were the most-valuable resource, and we were sent away.

Gerhart said the scene they confronted at the airport was one of hundreds of people lying on the ground, many soaked in their own urine and feces, some coding (dying) before our eyes. FEMA workers initially seemed glad for help and asked Gerhart to work inside the terminal and Perlmutter to work out on the tarmac. They were told only a single obstetrician had been on call at the site for the past 24 hours.

Then, the Coast Guard official informed the group that he could not credential them or guarantee tort coverage and that they should return to Baton Rouge. That shocked me, that those would be his concerns in a time of emergency, Gerhart said.

Transported back to Baton Rouge, Perlmutter's frustrated group went to state health officials who finally got them certified -- a simple process that took only a few seconds.

I found numerous other doctors in Baton Rouge waiting to be assigned and others who were sent away, and there was no shortage of need, he said.

Perlmutter spent some time at the Department of Health and Hospital's operational center at Jimmy Swaggart Ministries before moving to the makeshift Kmart Hospital doctors established at an abandoned store to care for patients. After organizing an orthopedics room and setting up ventilators there, Perlmutter went back to the Swaggart Center and then to the LSU Pete Maravich Assembly Center's field hospital to care for patients being flown in from the New Orleans area.

We saw elderly patients who had been off their medicine for days, diabetics without insulin going into shock, uncontrolled hypertension, patients with psychosis and other mental disorders, lots of diarrhea, dehydration and things you would expect. I slept on a patient cot there every night until I came home.

Gerhart said he felt the experience overall was successful and rewarding, although frustrating at times. You don't expect catastrophes to be well organized. A lot of people, both private citizens and government officials, were working very hard.

Perlmutter did not return home empty-handed. He brought a family of four evacuees back with him and is still working with Baton Rouge volunteer Hollis Barry to facilitate the relocation of additional hurricane victims to Pennsylvania.

He also returned with a sense of outrage. I have been trying to call Sen. Arlen Specter (of Pennsylvania) to let him know of our experience.

I have been going to Ecuador and Mexico (on medical missions) for 14 years. I was at ground zero. I've seen hundreds of people die. This was different because we knew the hurricane was coming. FEMA showed up late and then rejected help for the sake of organization. They put form before function, and people died.

Both FEMA and the Coast Guard operate under the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, which has been widely criticized for its disjointed, slow response to the devastation caused by Katrina. Federal officials are urging medical personnel who want to volunteer to help with disaster relief to contact the Medical Reserve Corps or the American Red Cross for registration, training and organization.


I'm sorry I'm not just going to stand by
and let you or any other unhinged liberal get away with stating the most stereotypical garbage I've ever heard.  You call us racist and intolerant.  Honey, you could teach the class on racism and stereotyping.
Nor a leg to stand on. nm
x
I cannot stand

Michelle Obama.  She just comes off to me as a bitter and arrogant woman.  Joe Biden are just ignorant sometimes.  He is a likeable guy and I like his smile but the words that come out of his mouth....I bet the dems cringe every time they see him start to talk. 


I would much rather see McCain and Palin in office.  I don't agree with everything they do, but for the most part....I stand along with them on issues. 


I cannot stand behind Obama and the things he stands for. 


Me too and I can't stand her. n/m
x
I will stand behind him, but we do not
know enough about him. Can only hope this is for the good.
Cannot stand her. She is always
picking her religion by flavor of the month.  She always picks her diets by whatever is flavor of the month.  She even had people on her show admit, day after O elected, that they only picked O because he is black.  Now she is trying to win the red colors of the south and turn them blue.  Whatever.  My sister is a flight attendant who had her on her AA flight and she was such a WITCH.  I heard Michelle Obama and Oprah cannot stand each other.
You are serious? I cannot stand the man. Used to
nm
Yes, I do know where you stand...(sm)

and I agree with you about 90% of the time.  However, you are really targeting the wrong people here.  Take a look up above this post.  Here's what I see -- "Obama is a fool...big government...socialism..."  Obama has called for unity in this country, and I wholeheartedly agree that we should be united.  However, the republican leadership and right wing news media are doing nothing but striving for division, and most of the republicans on this board do nothing but echo that.  They obviously can't be reasoned with.  They posted I don't know how many times about how terrible the stimulus is, but when asked their opinion of what should be done we get no answer-- just some wise crack.  The other day one was saying that Obama is taking rights away.  When asked what rights specifically...again, no answer.  And how about that racist post about the aspirin on this board or the email that a pub official sent out with a watermellon patch in front of the whitehouse?  Calling people names?  --- How about Kool-Aid drinkers? 


If republicans want to have a conversation, I'm all for that, but so far only a few on this board are actually willing to do so.  Let's work on that for a while.  Go ahead...ask them what their ideas are about how to solve the economic crisis and see if you get a reasonable answer.  Ask them whether or not they would support a violent revolution as suggested by Hannity's website and whether or not they think it would help the country. 


This country is a mess right now and we desparately need to come together, but when you are dealing with people who would prefer to remain a divided country for the purposes of greed and affiliation, then this is the result.


 


Can't chew gum. Would've if I could've.

Even got hypnotized. Supposedly guaranteed to quit. Lasted 5 hours. Thank heavens I never smoked anything stronger.


A few journalists stand out
Lately we have a few reporters who are stepping up to the plate of real journalists from the past..Im impressed with David Gregory of MSNBC, Keith Olbermann of MSNBC also tells it like it is and then there is Terry Moran of ABC and, of course Helen Thomas.  They are asking questions and I just love watching Bush and his press secretary squirm, LOL.  Three more years of this?  Can the country survive three more years?
I stand by my opinion
by the way...I fell asleep during your sermon...
I stand corrected

You are right. I did apply a double standard to a point.  Everybody has a past.  We've all done things we're ashamed of.  My beef  was with how he made it all seem like a joke, but again you are right.


I apologize...


Stand corrected
No, I'm advocating blowing a dictator away who is genocidal and dangerous and has committed war crimes for which he is on trial for now, and the evidence is overwhelming. Big difference there.
You are so right. I stand corrected.

What you said and every other bad thing in the world.  Bad Bad BAD Democrats. 


Bush won't send any of his kids to die for his war.  Only other people's kids.  BTW, LoL at margarita bimbos.   


Speaking of margaritas, people convicted of felonies (such as DUI) aren't allowed to vote in the United States. 


But they're allowed to be political candidates and sometimes they become President and Vice President.  (Bush: Arrested for DUI and again for possession of cocaine.  Cheney:  Arrested twice for DUI).


The loophole is they probably weren't technically convicted.  They would have been if they were everyday normal people and not privileged and rich, but how ironic is that?  :-(


Ok, I stand corrected....
Thanks, however of small note (and this is only me) I don't consider the people on Good Morning America to be news people. Yes, I know they are reading the news. I used to watch it until it just seemed to be too much like The View or Regis & Kathy (okay you see how long its been since I've seen that show). I've just never heard anyone on CNN, Fox, MSNBC, or those main ones (or even our local news) tell her to get out. They were all for her to keep going. But I do stand corrected and thank you.
I stand accused of
You are so consumed with your attack politics you are completely incapable of answering any real issues on any level whatsoever. So here you are with you umpteenth millionth under the bus/lie lines...boring, ineffective, pathetic, self-serving. Biden's record speaks for itself for those who are listening. His "friendship" with McBush is not the least bit relevant to anyone except those on the Fox fringe. The only ones whose opinions really count here are which ones believe your propaganda and which ones don't and how many of them show up at the polls. Will be declining the answer the lies accusations. it's all in the perception, sweetie, and on that score, you and your ilk will lose and lose big in the whose leaders tell the biggest lies that have the worst consequences for all of us to pay contest. Since you cannot actually address any of the other well researched facts on the experience issues raised in the last post, there is nothing left to do here except leave you to stew in your own acidic attacks. I will stay loyal to my principles, my party, their policies, issues and leaders. They are our only hope this election season. Shocking as it may seem to you, democrats are proud to be democrats, liberals proud to be liberals. You have no idea just how many of us there are out here. Our voices have not been raised within your earshot (Fox News) under the "you're either with us or against us" mentality of your last great fearless leader. But we raise them now, loud and clear. We shall see in a few short weeks just which one of us in on the "right side of history" this time...that is, unless, of course, the republicans manage to steal yet one more election. NOT. Not this time. Don't bother with a response. Try to find something more intelligent to do with your time.
I stand corrected

nm


 


Thank you for letting me know where you stand....
that barack's campaign is more important than the financial crisis we are facing. Tell me...what would you have said if Barack had suspended is campaign first and put his country first? Would you still be criticizing the decision? I am doubting it! lol.
You need to stand up and adjust....
and get your knickers out of that knot.
I can't stand Pelosi
but don't ya recall who's been in the White House for the past 8 years, well make that 20 of the last 28 years.  Obviously the Republican trickle down wealth hasn't worked so well.  And don't give me the Democrats for the past 2 years.  Obviously they haven't done anything either but for the previous 6 years, as I seem to recall Republicans had total control of the government and look where we are? 
Okay, I can't stand it anymore....
the answer is......Hitler.  His directive 51 was pretty much the same thing.
Yes that's me - and I still stand by my statement.
I just agreed that the site has been changed; however, if you compare the 2 sites they are virtually word for word until you have to add the part about the college credit (which I posted 4 links below that show that that has been part of the "requirement" all along and not a new idea). That is why I say that it was a mistake on somebody's part that was doing the typing.

I am telling you, when I am wrong, I am admitting I am wrong, and I will continue to admit I am wrong.

If Obama does something that is wrong, then in the next election, I will most definitely not support him again. I am, however, giving him the benefit of the doubt until he is actually in office and doing the job of the POTUS, and not condemning him on typos, rumors, innuendos, outright lies, hypothetical situations, fear and hatred...

I base my decisions on that person's actions, not the public's opinion.
Right and we don't have a union to stand up for us either. n/m
x
I never could stand Kissinger
I would expect he WOULD think Hillary was a good pick.  I most certainly DO NOT.  Yes..I am VERY angry.  I just don't know who to be the angriest at, the politicians who have sold us down the river or "we the people" who let them do it.
I stand behind our military too but
I sure as  heck am not going to stand behind a president who sends our young men  and women in harms way for his own personal gain and that of his oil cronies.  What happened to bin Laden?  Don't tell me that our military men and women couldn't take him out.  And how about McCain saying he knew how to get him.  How anyone who can support this administration and this war is beyond me. Isn't it "Mission Iraqi Freedom" now?  What about 9/11?  Who has paid for that?  And today Iraq has given us "permission" to stay for 3 more years?  Permission???  We have  no business meddling in their business to begin with.  Wasn't Bushes and Sadam friends before they became enemies???