I read some of your posts last night.

Don't know if I read them all, but I did read the one where you asked the person to go to the conservative board if they had anything to say about you.  Of course, we all know how that person would have been ganged up on by you and your friends if he/she would have done so. 

I have also read posts by you and your friends on the conservative board that are dedicated to bashing liberal posters on this board, sometimes using their initials, sometimes referring to them by their posts and sometimes coming right out with their monikers.  They are all usually cleverly hidden in the text of the message and not in the subject line. 

You certainly do this and have done it long before the person posting here last night did.

Don't you find it hypocritical to post on this board, complaining because someone did the same thing you routinely do?  Nobody came back on the conservative board to challenge you when you did it.  Instead, they just ignored your posts, respected your freedom of speech and left you alone.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.  :-(

• No matter how you feel about President Bush, he at least - Sickened sm

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you start sermonizing?

You said:

I think that you have made a crucial error in believing that WWII and Vietnam are at all similar.  WWII and the US Civil War were also very different wars.  There are even major differences between Iraq and Vietnam and the Korean War although some historians would also find greater similarities in these three wars.  You may rewrite the history of wars as well as US history to fit your agenda of political hatred, but you will never be able to present a convincing argument if you have completely questionable sources and facts to back it up.

If you will please read my post, I was alluding to the differences in the mindset of 18-year-olds at the time of the draft in the 60's and at the time of the draft in the 40's.  It was an opinion, one I believe is justified in looking at the correlation between mindset of young people then and of young people now.  When morals decay, and the character weakens.  That is my opinion and frankly I don't care whether you share it or not.  I was NOT comparing the two wars.  try reading it AGAIN before lecturing me.

You negate most historical records, which I admit often have some aspects of questionable validity, and you seem to re-create a fictionalized account to accommodate your rather far-out-there belief system based in hatred of the left. 

Please explain what in my post led you to say that...that I fictionalized something for my rather far-out-there belief.  And again, how many times do I have to say it...I have no hatred for the left.  A lot of sympathy, but no hatred.

You rearrange and fictionalize facts and history to make your point.  You provide spurious sources for your facts (I could probably find sources that prove that the earth is populated by aliens from Mars if I looked hard enough).

What the heck are you talking about?  Spurious sources?  Did I post any sources?  I was answering a question and then giving an opinion.  I rearrange facts and fictionalize?  What did I fictionalize?

I also notice on the conservative board constant condemnation of liberals, leftists as a whole.

No, not leftists as a whole.  I based my opinion of leftists who speak out and speak *for the left*, the poster children of the left, on these boards, blogs, in print, on TV, etc.  I form my opinion of the left on what I hear coming out of their mouths, mostly, and here from their fingers as it were.  That is plenty.  The rest is icing.

 We are characterized as stupid, immoral, crazy, unpatriotic, love the terrorists, cowards, angry, on and on. 

Well, to me abortion IS immoral.  To me cloning embryos just to kill them IS immoral.  To me oppressing people with social programs instead of helping them grow into productive citizens is immoral.  If that is you, then I think you are immoral. 

I never called anyone crazy.  So far you are the only one I have ever seen call anyone mentally ill....when you compared me to your mother.

I believe patriotism is supporting the military when they are engaged in a war.  If you do not do that, then I believe you are unpatriotic.  You will notice I said I believe.  I did not say all Republicans believe, all conservatives believe....I, myself, believe.

I never said you or anyone else loves the terrorists.  I said when you get out and protest against the war and carry nasty signs about the commander in chief when we are engaged in a war you are aiding the enemy.  I, me, myself, speaking only for ME, believe that you are.  I did not say you love them, and if you cannot figure out how they would use that video as propaganda....not my fault.  I still have my opinion.  You, if you are carrying those signs or support those who do carry those signs, are aiding the enemy.  It should not be done in war time when we have soldiers fighting.  Again, MY opinion.

Cowards....well, to me it is cowardly to call yourself a *peace* movement and be unwilling to take that movement to the real enemies of peace....you know, the ones who have been attacking us for years now, with the big hit on 9-11.  The people who are really interested in snuffing you, and I mean literally.  The people who are really interested in making this a Muslim nation.  Those people.  Talk to THEM about peace.  Because if you change THEIR minds, your problem is over, sis.

Angry...yes, I believe you as an individual are angry.  The left as a whole...sure, I believe they are angry.  They act angry.  They talk angry.  They can't even get along among themselves (kind of like radical Muslims seem to be) ---and before you go there, I am not comparing the left to radical Muslims...just the fact that they cannot get along in their own ranks.  The Republicans seem to be having the same problem, though not to as large a degree....yet. 

You are condemning at least 50 percent of the citizens of this country with those adjectives.

I am not *condemning* anyone.  You escalate each post with needless inflammatory rhetoric.  I am merely stating an opinion.  And yes, when I see that some 41% of Democrats are not sure they want the surge of troops to succeed, 51% say right up front they DONT want the surge of troops to succeed, and the rest are undecided, my opinion of those folks is not very high, and yes I think they are unpatriotic.  If you can say bold faced that you do not want your troops to succeed in battle .... yep, that is about as UNpatriotic as you can get...my opinion, my own, me, myself. 

Doesn't seem at all patriotic to me. 

Of course not.  I would not expect that it would.

 Your group also points out nuts (like those who would spit on veterans) as representing the liberal mindset.

*Your group.*  There you go, doing the same thing you accuse me of...demonizing an entire group.

 I realize I am not going to be able to convince you of the great disservice you do to yourself with a narrow and naive mindset like that. 

Oh here comes the compassionate I know so much more than you do let me lead you along speech.  I swear it must be in some leftist handout because I have heard those same words from others.  And I mean the EXACT same words.  Your mindset is not only narrow, it consists of the opinions of others.  Leftists seem to be incapable of forming an individual opinion and instead repeat what I have read in a million articles, full of buzz words, yada yada.  Do you know what you yourself honestly believe as an individual?  In your own words?

 I know many Republicans and with the exception of possibly one, none are as condemning and narrow-minded as the posts I see on your board. 

You are paranoid.  I do not see any condemning.  All I see is rebuttal with opinions that differ from yours.  Thank Heavens for that! 

While I have participated in bashing and see bashing on the liberal board, it rarely occurs in a generalized fashion toward all right-wingers. 

That is true.  You have participated in bashing.  You are, in my opinion, the worst offender.  But again...MY opinion.  Oh come onnnnn.....*your group,* *you guys*...gimme a break.  You are into the group bashing as much as anyone.  The reason I refer to *the left* as a group is because you all say the same things.  Nearly the exact same things.  If I could find any individuals, it would be different.  I can't.

As I said, that would be a very naive assumption and the root of bigotry and prejudice and ultimately hatred is in the grouping of all peoples as being of one mindset.....

I would not group you all together if you were not all saying exactly the same things?  And I am so glad that you are so all-knowing that you have laid down the edict that  the root of all bigotry and prejudice and ultimately hatred is the grouping of all peoples as being of one mindset....geez, which article did THAT come from?  But, you know, you might try flying that one at Bin Laden.  See if it will bring HIM around, because he has kinda put the West into one big group he HATES. 

Lurker is the only one that I can honestly say does not fall into direct lockstep.

think of Muslims, blacks in the south pre-Civil Rights, Native Americans in the 1800s (and even now). 

So easy to ridicule and oppress when we don't see folks as individuals.  Actually the comments I see made about the liberal mindset are so far removed from the reality of most liberals in the United States it verges on the ridiculous, well no, it doesn't verge on the ridiculous, it IS ridiculous.

Okay....let me see.  You said so easy to ridicule and oppress when we don't see folks as individuals.  Well, if you were all saying something different perhaps that would be easier to find those individuals.    Then you say *the comments I see about the liberal mindset*....hmmm...that does not sound individual to me at all.   How, dear Teddy, do you expect us to know the *reality of most liberals* when all we hear, see, read, are saying almost exactly the same thing? 

Well, I feel so privileged that you took my simple little post as a stepping stone to rant.  Please do not get me started on which board is the worst on bashing.  I have seen comments on both sides, but the liberal board has been far more virulent and tasteless (I feel like I have been defecated upon, sit your butt in your chair).  I have seen far worse than that.  The reason we do not see that now is that they probably have been banned.   And so should they be. On EITHER board. There is no need for belitting and name calling, and you are a master at it.  Your lecturing, condescending, holier-than-thou attitude wears real thin.   We all read it, we all recognize it, including other liberal posters who do not want to join in on your name-calling, condescending manner.    If you are so smart, and you have it all right, why don't you take it somewhere it will do some good?  Take the antiwar rhetoric, all the noble ideas about we are all the same, and it is wrong to group everybody together because that is where hate comes from, yada yada.  Why not take that message to the real enemy?  Quit preaching and sermonizing to conservatives and talk to your real enemies, the terrorists.  Except...oh...how silly of me.  You don't view them as a threat.  Or, more truthfully I am sure...you like your head where it is on your shoulders.   

As far as your further condemnation of Democrats as far as blacks and their allegiances, I believe most informed political science folks would be the first to admit that the party doctrines have evolved over time.  What probably counts most is the current party belief system.  Just some common sense.

*Party doctrine evolve over time.*  Now that is funny.  The only reason it evolved is because Republicans forced it to evolve.  Check the votes on civil rights legislation as close as the 60's, Teddy.  Democrats voted AGAINST, in great numbers.  Had it not been for the Republicans outvoting them, no civil rights legislation would have passed.  The filibustered it for days.  All that has evolved is now Democrats choose to enslave in a different way....through social programs that do not encourage people to do any better and stay tethered to the government for their existence.  Whenever you have 3 generations of a family on welfare, something is VERY wrong with that system.  Again, Teddy....pay attention now...that is my OPINION.

Rebuttal to sermon ended.

you will see that I think the blame should go all around.  This isn't just dems versus reps.  They are both to blame for this.  I am just sick and tired of turning on the news and hearing nothing but ridicule of McCain when Obama had his whole hand in the cookie jar. 

Even if McCain was for deregulation....he still stood up and said something about this before it got to this point.  That should account for something. 

you would know that I included pubs in my criticism as well.  I personally think both parties should be spending their own money and not relying on lobbyists money for the spa retreat, as the pubs did, and not using taxpayer money, like the dems did.  I couldn't care less if this was planned since last years retreat.  Doesn't mean they couldn't foot the bill themselves or cancel it. 

Here I am sitting at home hoping and praying that my job as an MT isn't shipped over to India leaving me jobless.  I'm hoping and praying that my husband's dealership can survive this even though sales keep dropping.  My husband and I have paid our bills.  We have an incredibly high credit score.  We have worked for what we have.  We don't live off of the government.  Yet we are scared sh!tless and hurting because banks were made to give risky loans to people who couldn't pay for them.  We are being forced to pay for irresponsible people and you know when it is all said and done....you know who will benefit from this......the same scum that couldn't afford those loans and ran up credit cards.  They will benefit because the government will bail THEM OUT.  You think they are going to help me and my husband........HECK NO!  They will take everything we have worked for.

So I guess you can say I'm a tad bit bitter about government as a whole.  I think both parties need to be scrutinized but since the dems are currently running the show wouldn't it just make sense that criticism would be more focused on them because they hold the power right now. I don't agree with the far left and I don't agree with the far right either.  I think there are nut cases on both sides. 

I am just sick and tired of lazy people who were irresponsible keep getting help while the harding working people who are suffering get absolutely nothing.  Giving assistance and money to these lazy people is like giving alcohol to an alcoholic going through withdrawal.  Yes, it will stop the tremors and the alcoholic will be content but he will need more alcohol or he will start to shake again.  Once you keep giving these scum money....you have to keep giving it.  This is what I don't understand about government.  Sometimes helping people isn't helping.....it is enabling them to mooch and continue to be lazy. 

We are all suffering because of irresponsible people and government enabling them to get risky loans, BTW, thank ole Billy boy for that one.

bus, it would probably be on purpose just to get away from you.

I'm sure you think you **know** for a fact everything that your religion has taught you.  My opinion is that religion is based on faith, though, not fact.  That's why it's called faith. Just because my religious beliefs may not exactly match yours doesn't mean that mine are right or yours are wrong.  They're just different. 

My faith is very personal to me, and I would never try to force my beliefs on someone else by claiming I **know** the truth when what I believe is based on faith and not fact.  On the other hand, I resent people who tell me I'm going to hell unless I convert and adhere to their specific religion because they hold the exclusive keys to heaven.  I find that kind of behavior to be obnoxious, intrusive and insulting.

President Bush has thrown more money at poverty than Clinton, and I do not dispute the fact that Clinton went a long way in reducing poverty.  Workfare is one of the best programs to come along in a long time, and one thing Clinton did right, however, it needs to be to be expanded.

Poverty is not solely a lack of financial means for many people (not everyone), but poverty in this country seems to stem from moral poverty in many cases.

If so, are you sure you comprehend them?  You said, "I, personally, don't think it's the government's job to provide you a job you will love be it a manufacturing job or a higher level professional one."  No one said anything about the government providing you with a job.  She was talking about keeping a job you already have.  A job that you may well love and want to do until the day you retire.

We worry about immigrants coming into our country and taking our jobs, and everyone in the government seems at least slightly concerned about this, yet the government has no problem off-shoring countless American jobs to other countries.  Gee, what's wrong with that picture?  It seems that our middle class is slipping into lower class, and the rich keep getting richer.  Each man for himself seems to be the American way as of late, and some of us, many of us liberals, want to change that mentality.  We need to look out for our working class.

I saw the posts for myself, no one "ran" to me. Note that all boards were reviewed for inappropriate posts.

I dont have to defend my education or knowledge of history.  I know what I have been taught.  This endless attack gets tiring.  Time to go do something more constructive than read your attacks to me.  Later Gator

This is definitely scary.  When we lose control to raise or own children......what else do they want to take away from us.  This is beyond ridiculous.

You people who cry and whine about government staying out of your uterus....well how about stay out of my home and let me raise my kids I decided to have instead of aborting.  What about those rights? 

And they wonder why people are upset and worried?

It's going to be hilarious!

For those of you who miss it, you can see clips at their website.

I don't post under a name, because when you do you are crucified by the drive-by bombers.  It's best to keep the them confused.

And Tucker Carlson is hardly a liberal.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13459509/

But first to a story horrifying even by the coarsening standards of Iraq, the brutal murder and torture of two U.S. soldiers. 

Privates first class Kristian Menchaca and Thomas L. Tucker went missing Friday after an attack on a checkpoint they were manning south of Baghdad.  Their bodies were found on Monday night.  They were reportedly so badly mutilated they were tentatively identified by tattoos and scars.  The corpses were also booby-trapped, an apparent effort to kill recovery teams.

Al Qaeda‘s new leader in Iraq has claimed responsibility for the soldier‘s slaughter. 

In the face of brutality like this, is Iraq worth the cost in American lives?  Here to answer that question, Brad Blakeman.  He‘s the former deputy assistant to the president.  He joins us tonight from Washington. 

Brad, thanks for coming on.

BRAD BLAKEMAN, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT:  Thank you, Tucker.

CARLSON:  So we have spent untold billions of dollars, 2,500 American soldiers killed, all in an effort to bring democracy and prosperity to Iraq.  In return, they torture and murder and mutilate our soldiers.  Remind me why this is a good bargain?

BLAKEMAN:  Well, Tucker, look, this is a tough thing, and our hearts go out to every soldier who has made the ultimate sacrifice so that we can live in freedom. 

But Iraq is worth fighting for.  The region is worth fighting for.  It‘s in our interest.  These terrible, brutal dictatorships must be brought down when they become a threat to our national security.  You know...

CARLSON:  OK.  But that‘s not the rationale the president has offered.  He has said now, because as you know, and not to rehash the whole war, but no weapons of mass destruction were found.  And he‘s said now this is worth doing because it‘s worth bringing freedom to the Iraqi people.  They yearn for freedom, and it‘s our duty to give them the freedom they yearn for. 

My question is how have they earned our sacrifice to bring them that freedom?  What about Iraq justifies the death—brutal deaths of American soldiers?  Why should we feel like it‘s worth it to bring these people democracy when they behave like animals like this?

BLAKEMAN:  We‘re focusing on the animals and not the good and decent people of Iraq.  The vast majority of Iraq is peaceful. 

CARLSON:  Is that right?  I don‘t think—I don‘t think there‘s any evidence of that.

BLAKEMAN:  There are 12 million people who went to—who went to the polls.  They have four successful elections.  They have a new government.  We tend only to focus on the very bad, on the insurgencies, and the evil people.  But the vast majority of Iraqis want to be free. 

You know, if we took your attitude...

CARLSON:  Is that true?  Is that true?

BLAKEMAN:  Hold on, Tucker.  If we took your attitude, we would have turned back at the beaches of Normandy when all those people...

CARLSON:  Spare me the tired, hackney, cliched World War II analogies.  Let‘s get to the war in progress, and that‘s Iraq.  There are decent people there.  I have been there.  I‘ve met decent people there.  I know firsthand. 

However, your claim that most people want peace is bosh as they say. 

Let me show you...

BLAKEMAN:  It is not.

CARLSON:  It certainly is.  A poll undertaken by the ministry of defense from Great Britain, part of the coalition, said 65 percent of Iraqi citizens support attacks on U.S. citizens. 

Our own polling, done by World Opinion, public opinion, 47 percent approve attacks on U.S. forces, 88 percent of Sunnis, 88 percent approve of attacks on U.S. forces. 

These are—are these—these are the people our sons and daughters are dying to make rich and free?  How does that work?

BLAKEMAN:  It is our responsibility.  We brought down this dictator, this evil dictator...

CARLSON:  How are we responsible?

BLAKEMAN:  ... who used weapons of mass destruction against his own people.  Now, it‘s our responsibility to bring democracy to these people.  We can‘t cut and run and defeat the dictator and then leave...

CARLSON:  Why is it our responsibility?  There are countries across the world who live in shackles.

BLAKEMAN:  We are the freest nation on earth.  That‘s why it‘s our responsibility.  We‘re the freest nation on earth.  We brought down the dictator, and now it‘s our responsibility...

CARLSON:  How does that work?  They have not done one thing for us.  Look—look, think of the implications of what you are saying.  I don‘t know if you have thought this through.

BLAKEMAN:  I‘ve thought it through very well.

CARLSON:  Nation after nation after nation, starting with Mugabe in Zimbabwe, moving all the way to communist—still communist, still unfree China, people who are living in fetters who are unfree, who are oppressed, is it our, as you put it, obligation as a free a nation to free those nations?  Do you really want to play this?

BLAKEMAN:  Is it—do you know what our obligation is?  It‘s to bring freedom to those people who yearn to be free.  And China has come a long way. 

CARLSON:  So it‘s your obligation to sent your son, my obligation...

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON:  ... people I‘ve never met in countries that hate us?  You‘ve got to be kidding.  It‘s my obligation to do that?

BLAKEMAN:  Yes, it is our obligation.  Was it our obligation to go—was it our obligation. 

CARLSON:  Where does the obligation come from?  I didn‘t sign up for that obligation.

BLAKEMAN:  It‘s our obligation.  Was it our obligation to go—was it our obligation to go into Europe where we weren‘t attacked?  No, Europe let a dictator get so strong that collectively they couldn‘t take him down, and we had to come down. 

CARLSON:  We got in war when we were attacked.

BLAKEMAN:  We lost 400,000 Americans in that war.  We lost—a million people were wounded in that war.

CARLSON:  Right.  And there were...

BLAKEMAN:  But was it worth it?

CARLSON:  Let me just remind you, we entered that war on December 7, 1941, when our soil, the protectorate of Hawaii, was attacked by a foreign nation and thousands of Americans died.  We went to war on that day, and not before.  OK?  So the overall principle you are stating here, that we have a moral obligation to free the unfree, think it through, man.  It‘s... 

BLAKEMAN:  I didn‘t say that, Tucker.  I said when we took down the dictator, when we made an obligation to risk our soldiers to free a country, we just can‘t cut and run.  We have to establish a government for them.  We‘ve got to give them the opportunity to succeed.  That‘s our obligation.

CARLSON:  And you may be right as far as that goes.  But the blanket obligation that Bush implies, and you just stated, that we have to go free the world, to send our sons and daughters to go...

BLAKEMAN:  No, we don‘t have to free the world

CARLSON:  ... die for other people‘s freedom, people who hate us, it‘s a scary thing.

BLAKEMAN:  Well, then you know what?  Didn‘t the Japanese hate us? 

Didn‘t the Germans hate us?  Do they hate us today?

CARLSON:  They attacked us first.  We had no choice.

BLAKEMAN:  They‘re our allies.  They our allies, and they stand shoulder to shoulder with us.  Should we have waited to get attacked by the Iraqis?  No.

CARLSON:  You know, I thought—when I supported the war initially, I thought that they were capable of attacking us, and it turns out, as you know, and I‘m sad to report, that we weren‘t. 

BLAKEMAN:  They were pretty capable of attacking us if they wanted to. 

CARLSON:  Brad Blakeman, thanks a lot.

BLAKEMAN:  You are welcome.