In addition....
Posted By: Teddy on 2007-02-25
In Reply to: Dissension in the Ranks - Teddy
They also showed a quote from Military Times that for the first time ever more soldiers oppose this war and Bush's policy than support it.
This certainly runs counter to what I read on the Conservative board but backs up what I have been hearing from the military folks that I know (they are no longer active duty).
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In addition to above....
I don't know what plan B you think Clinton had for Somalia...but the fact that he turned tail and ran after they dragged the body of one of our soldiers behind a Jeep instead of acting decisively...if he had fought Al Qaeda in Somalia then...we might not be fighting them in Iraq now. Cutting and running was wrong then and it is wrong now. Wasn't going to bring this up, but it seems appropriate now:
Unintended Consequences: The Rise of Al-Qaeda.
Al-Qaeda is a transnational umbrella group that has evolved from a loose association of Islamic militants who had flocked to Afghanistan during the 1980s to join the jihad (holy war) against the Soviet occupation. 7 Following the Soviet withdrawal in 1989, many of these estimated 25,000 Arab Afghans returned home, where they fostered radical Islamic movements in many Muslim countries, including Somalia. According to U.S. intelligence reports, bin Laden sent Islamic extremists to Somalia in 1991-1992 to help the Somali Islamic radical group al-Ittihad al-Islamiya (Islamic Unity, or AIAI) to organize an armed militia, establish schools and clinics, and prepare to seize power.
One of the most grievous unintended consequences of the U.S. intervention in Somalia was that U.S. peacekeeping forces became a lightning rod for terrorist attacks from bin Laden's terrorists and their Somali allies. Al-Qaeda's first known terrorist attack against Americans was the December 1992 bombing of a hotel in Aden, Yemen, used by American soldiers en route to Somalia to participate in the relief operations. 8
Bin Laden, who lived in nearby Sudan from 1991-1996 under the protection of the radical Islamic regime in Khartoum, regarded the American humanitarian intervention in Somalia as a colonial occupation and a threat to Islam. This mirrored his hostile view of the deployment of U.S. troops to defend Saudi Arabia in 1990 after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. He deemed the U.S. intervention to be an intolerable occupation of his Saudi homeland and a crusade against Islam.
In 1993, bin Laden issued a fatwa (religious edict) calling for Somalis to attack U.S. forces and drive them out of the country. 9 He dispatched several lieutenants, including Mohammed Atef, who is believed to have helped plan the September 11 attacks, to help train Somalis in military and terrorist tactics.
According to U.S. officials, bin Laden spent $3 million to recruit and airlift elite veterans of the Afghan jihad to Somalia via third countries, such as Yemen and Ethiopia. 10 Several hundred foreign veterans of the Afghan jihad, expelled from Pakistan in 1993, also joined the Somali jihad after passing through Sudan. 11 Tariq Nasr Fadhli, a radical Islamic leader from Yemen who fought under bin Laden against the Soviets in Afghanistan, helped bring Yemeni mercenaries to fight in Somalia. 12
Bin Laden later claimed responsibility for the deaths of the 18 U.S. soldiers in Mogadishu. 13 In a 1997 interview with CNN, he gloated that al-Qaeda had trained and organized the Somali fighters who did the actual fighting. 14 Al-Qaeda members are suspected of teaching General Aideed's militia how to shoot down U.S. helicopters by altering the fuses of rocket-propelled grenades so that they exploded in mid-air. 15 This tactic, developed by the Afghan mujahideen (holy warriors) in their war against the Soviets, was the same one al-Qaeda forces used to bring down two U.S. helicopters near Gardez, Afghanistan, during Operation Anaconda in early March 2002.
Triumph Against U.S. in 1993 Stokes Bin Laden's Ambitions.
The ignominious collapse of the U.S. peacekeeping mission in Somalia after October 1993 undoubtedly led bin Laden to conclude that you go kill a few Americans and they go away, as one expert described it. 16 This also reinforced his contempt for American staying power and fueled his ambitions to use terrorism to drive American influence out of the Muslim world: If the deaths of 18 soldiers could cause the withdrawal of 25,000 U.S. troops from Somalia, bin Laden had reason to believe that killing more Americans could lead to a similar pullout from Saudi Arabia.
Al-Qaeda terrorists are suspected of involvement in a series of increasingly ambitious terrorist bombings that killed five U.S. military advisers in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, in 1995; 19 U.S. military personnel at the Khobar Towers housing complex in Saudi Arabia in 1996; and 224 people, including 12 Americans, in the simultaneous bombings of the U.S. embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya, in 1998. The embassy bombings took place on August 7, the anniversary of the first deployment of U.S. troops to Saudi Arabia in response to the August 2, 1990, Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. According to U.S. intelligence, al-Qaeda used Somalia as a regional base of operations, including preparations for the 1998 embassy bombings. 17 Some of the members of the same Kenya-based al-Qaeda cell that helped train Somalis to kill U.S. soldiers in 1993 went on to carry out the bombing of the U.S. embassy in Nairobi. 18
Bin Laden's victory in Somalia also helped radicalize Somali Islamists. Although Somalia's AIAI was formed in the late 1980s as a fundamentalist Islamic social-political movement, it evolved into a revolutionary Islamic force with (1) the return of a sprinkling of Somali veterans of the Afghan jihad, (2) bin Laden's radical influence, and (3) Sudanese support. It sought to build an Islamic state that would be governed by Sharia (Islamic law).
So, if you look at that honestly...Bush is just trying to clean up the mess Bill Clinton left. If he had acted decisively in Somalia (and my husband was in Somalia shortly after Blackhawk Down happened...I know whereof I speak)...perhaps this could have all been avoided. I believe it most assuredly could have. And it proves that if you cut and run Al Qaeda does not go away. They get stronger. The left got us where we are now...and are famous for cutting and running and leaving innocents dangling in the breeze, while all the time professing compassion for the poor and downtrodden. Perhaps you can understand my confusion now. The left gives Clinton a total pass and wants to blame Bush for ... again... trying to clean up the mess Bill left and trying to turn the tide. If Bill had acted differently in Somalia perhaps we could have avoided 9-11 as well. The facts seem to lean in that direction. ANything that Bush has done regarding Iraq pales in comparision to what Clinton did in cutting and running from Somalia in my opinion. I have known all this since Somalia...yet when that same Bill Clinton showed up in OKC after the Murrah building bombing, the first thing that came to my mind was that I was happy that he had come, that the President was there. I did not question why he did not go to the funerals of the 18 soldiers killed in Mogadishu or that he ran like a coward and emboldened the enemy. I understood why he came and took him at face value. I guess that is the difference in you and me.
LOL...In addition to that...(sm)
they need to stick a camera up to every one of them and let the explain to people all over the country why they were so willing to put so many people out of a job.
In addition to the relationships
I referred to in my other post, the fact that I lived in the region and worked with refugees both here and over there, my info comes from all over the place because I make a concerted effort to educate myself on these issues, especially the history of the region, its political parties and the constant interference it has had to withstand from the West for the past 100 years or so. The only thing you suppposedly "know" about who is supporting "these terrorists" is what you are told by a skewed one-sided press that has done nothing but promote and serve the government's agenda when it comes to Israel.
I gave you several logical reasons based on well-known facts that mitigate against the idea that Iran smuggles arms to Hamas. If you knew anything about the occupation and about the relationships of the parties, you would know how logistically impossible that notion is. If you are referring to Hamas instead of Iran (hard to tell by the way you phrased your post), then what you are trying to say is even more absurd and AGAIN is nothing more than a regurgitation of what the media is feeding you.
Hamas are citizens of Gaza themselves and they live in a place that is the 6th most densely populated area in the world. There are 10,792 Gazans per square mile with a total area of only 139 square miles. It is blockaded by land and sea by Israel. There is no exit from the place and there is no way Hamas can NOT live among its own fellow citizens, who by the way, elected them to office in a democratic process, hold them in high regard and recognize them as their representatives. They are hardly embedding or hiding themselves anywhere. They live there, for heaven's sake.
Now whose putting words in whose mouth? I know no such thing and agree with nothing you have said here. You also have no idea how I feel about my country or my fellow Americans. I will not hesitate to say that I think the US policy on Israel is ignorant, barbaric, self-serving and has really very little to do with support of Israel or her people. That makes it hypocritical as well, and I really do not like it one bit when my own government lies to me, which it constantly does about Israel. I also have fairly hostile feelings toward anyone who supports this terrorist apartheid state and turns a blind eye to the human abuses there and to the fact that the only terrorists breeding terrorism there are the Israelis and their benefactors.
As a real American, who is patriotic enough to care about what this country has become, and especially how it's better side has been so eroded by the Bush years, I get to say those things, think those things and still be considered your fellow citizen. Like the Palestinians, I am not going anywhere and your little love it or leave it mantra and your fellow choir members who chant it ad nauseum are nearing extinction, so I'll pass on any further time-consuming comment on that one.
Great idea, with just one addition:
Those who insist on not using the new board for its purpose and instead continue to do what they've been doing should receive some sort of sanction, maybe permanent banning, I don't know.
It seems another problem is that when THEY say something, it's not bashing, whereas ANYTHING we say is bashing as far as they're concerned. I truly believe that a few misguided souls on this board truly don't believe they are doing anything wrong. They are incapable of being objective, feel everything they say is fine, and if someone gets fed up and gives them a taste of their own medicine, they claim they're being attacked.
You could be the Virgin Mary incarnate, and if you dare to express your honest opinion on this board and do not blindly follow and worship Bush, then you're automatically a vile person. Some days ago, Democrat invited one of them to offer a topic for debate, but that has yet to happen. Instead, the poster has, 100% of the time, chosen to bash other posters.
It's a great idea, GT, but the more I think about it, they aren't happy unless they can disrupt others who try to pursue intelligent, worthwhile, tolerant discussion. They tell us to leave the conservative board and stay on our own board, and when we do and there isn't any more fighting on their board, they come here and start because they HAVE to have their fix of liberal bashing for the day. The more I see it, the more it looks like a sick, twisted addiction.
I've made a list, and, unfortunately, it seems to be growing every day. The ones who only want to insult and bash don't get a response from me any more. In fact, I've stopped reading their posts because I already know it's more bashing, so it's a huge waste of time.
As far as ownership of the board, there just might be a new owner, because they no longer seem to favor one group of posters over another group as much, as seemed to be the case before.
But, hey, I'd love to be able to discuss issues in a friendly, respectful manner, and I'm in favor of anything that could promote that! 
Yes, with an addition that I hope anyone reading this...
will look at the entire thread, and a little foray into the archives would not go amiss either. I think the totality of the posts should speak volumes.
Have a good day, Teddy.
IN ADDITION, just log off, you are such miserable LOSERS
WE WON AND WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM US ??????
Right back at ya...with the addition of financial ruin...
if Obama and Biden are "hired."
First proposed addition to Obama's admin....
Rahm Emanuel. Headed the effort to re-elect Richard Daley mayor of Chicago...firmly entrenched in the Chicago political machine. "From work earlier in his career, Emanuel considers Mayor Richard M. Daley, Senator Paul Simon and President Bill Clinton to be his professional mentors." Could this be the shape of things to come? Doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy so far.
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