In rare form, I agree with you...nm

• Pledge unconstitutional - Jane
  • Just a little clue for you far left Democrats. Thank GOD you don't represent - -
    • get on back conservative - gt
      • You honestly believe the junk you spew - Reality check
        • you know nothing - gt
          • I know enough - Reality check
  • pledge - duck
    • pledge - gt
    • Original pledge by forefathers didn't include God. I agree with keeping the original. - Libby
      • PLEDGE AGAIN - DUCK
        • How about.. - Libby
          • I don't have a problem with taking the "under God" part out...sm - Democrat
  • I don't agree with this. I think the people sm - Democrat
    • They already ARE allowed to stay silent. That's the irony of this. - SM
      • In rare form, I agree with you...nm - Democrat
      • Majority rules not the minority - Reality Check
    • I'm not sure of all the formal legal implications, but (sm) - just another democrat
      • I didn't know "under God" was not in the original pledge. sm - Democrat
      • LEGAL - NUMBER 1
      • It should only limit them from saying two words in the pledge - Reality check
        • leave out god in the pledge - gt
          • This what I'm personally going to do - Reality check
    • Pledge - gt
      • Then that was wrong - Reality check

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Sam who posts on this board, but thanks for the laughs. 

I don't usually post on this board that often because it's usually a waste of time, but I was bored last night. 

...and my response.  (Warning:  It's lengthy.)

This is our moment of truth. You and I have to make it absolutely clear that we won't stand for Republican Swift Boat style attacks on Jack Murtha.

Yesterday, an extraordinary congressman, former Marine Drill Sergeant and decorated Vietnam veteran, spoke out on the war in Iraq. He didn't come to that moment lightly. He spoke his mind and spoke his heart out of love for his country and support for our troops. No sooner had the words left his lips than the vicious assault on his character and patriotism began.

Today, in a statement on the Senate floor, in interviews with the national media, and in this message to you, I am seeking out every opportunity to defend a brave American hero that the Republican attack machine has set their sights on.

I urge you to do the same. Whether you agree or disagree with Jack Murtha is irrelevant. These despicable attacks on Jack Murtha's patriotism and courage must be met with an enormous public outcry. Call your local talk radio show, write a letter to the editor, phone your members of Congress - join me in acting now to reject these Swift Boat style attacks on Jack Murtha.

It disgusts me that a bunch of guys who have never put on the uniform of their country have aimed their venom at a marine who served America heroically in Vietnam and has been serving heroically in Congress ever since. No matter what J.D. Hayworth says, there is no sterner stuff than the backbone and courage that defines Jack Murtha's character and conscience.
Dennis Hastert -- the Speaker of the House who never served -- accused Jack Murtha of being a coward. Well let me tell you, Jack Murtha wasn't a coward when he put himself in harm's way for his country in Vietnam and earned two purple hearts -- he was a patriot then, and he is a patriot today. Jack Murtha's courage in combat earned him a Bronze Star, and his voice should be heard, not silenced by those who still today cut and run from the truth.

Instead of letting his cronies run their mouths, the President for once should stop his allies from doing to Jack Murtha what he set them loose to do to John McCain in South Carolina and Max Cleland in Georgia.

The President should finally find the courage to debate the real issue instead of destroying anyone who speaks truth to power as they see it. It's time for Americans to stand up, fight back, and make it clear it's unacceptable to do this to any leader of any party anywhere in our country.

I urge you to join today in a massive public outcry that rejects the attempt to demonize and destroy anyone who dares to disagree with George W. Bush's aimless stay for as long as it takes policy on Iraq.

Please act now. Call and email your elected officials. Flood talk radio with calls rejecting these vicious smear tactics. Send a letter to the editor.

Express your outrage about the tired old Rovian Swift Boat style attacks on Jack Murtha.

Sincerely,
John Kerry

MY REPLY:

Dear Senator Kerry:

I absolutely agree with everything you wrote, and I have been posting my views on political message boards, as well as emailing Duncan Hunter, and I've written a four-page letter to Congressman Murtha himself.

Now I must address YOUR response to the attacks on Congressman Murtha.

I thank you for your defense of him; however, I felt it was very, VERY weak. (By the way, please pass this on to Senators Clinton and Reid so they might get a clue into what makes the majority of Americans tick).

For years now, Democrats, including yourself, have openly expressed their opposition to the Iraq war, but you haven't had one single idea to fix the problem, and when asked WHY you voted for it (before you voted against it), you all give some lame, limp, meaningless excuse.

NOW is the time to aggressively defend Congressman Murtha and his plan for leaving Iraq. Bush HAS NO PLAN. MURTHA DOES. It's really quite a simple concept.

Although I'm beginning to lose patience with you all, let's regroup and start over. Today is the first day of the rest of our lives.

I realize that most of you fell down on the job and didn't really scrutinize the Bush intelligence (this term is found in the dictionary under oxymoron and/or just plain old moron).

You were probably busy and didn't have time to read thousands of pages of documents. That's understandable. What's even more understandable is that as President of the United States, there's a preconceived notion that this person is, in fact, ethical and honorable. We now know that is not the case. We now know that he possibly took America to war on the blood of thousands of 9/11 victims simply to insure a successful Presidency. NOW is the time to admit that you, as well as every intelligent, thinking American and the entire WORLD, were FOOLED by this man because he was so blatant and aggressive in his pursuit of this war, it simply never occurred to any of you that you were dealing with a man who planned on attacking Iraq before he was even (s)elected President. (See
http://www.tompaine.com/articles/20...went_to_war.php,)

NOW is the time to expose the true character and motives of this prior alcoholic who never received professional help for his addiction. He comes across as a simple man because he IS a simple man, in every sense of the word. His simplicity extends to the largest deficit in American history, and his tactics remind me of a teenager who recklessly maxes out Daddy's credit card because he has no responsibility for the bill, given that Daddy will pay it.

NOW is the time to embrace Congressman Murtha's plan, since it DOES make sense, reflects an actual THOUGHT PROCESS taking place, and is the thing that most Americans want. This man is not some 5-deferment draft dodger or Air National Guard absentee. He's a decorated Purple Heart recipient, who has devoted his entire life to helping the military and veterans.

NOW is the time to reveal an administration who would place the lives of a CIA agent in jeopardy and with everyone who ever worked with her, simply because her husband exposed the TRUTH.

NOW is the time to reveal the administration's press secretary's Plamerizing of John Murtha. NOW is the time to acknowledge that you truly have connected the dots, and the picture of a lying, unethical administration has emerged. If you do this NOW, most forward-thinking Americans will probably forgive you for now just catching up with everything they've known for months.

NOW is the time to publicly condemn Friday's histrionics of the House of Representatives. I, as a taxpayer, resent having to pay for that crap.

Sadly, you've pretty much already proven that you don't have many original ideas. NOW is the time to attach yourselves to John Murtha's coattails and hang on for dear life.

In case you haven't figured this out yet, you're up against an administration who will stop at NOTHING to transform this country into a theoracy, who will brag about the impending freedom for all Iraqis, while simultaneously slowly removing the freedoms of Americans, as his narrow-minded base pursues control over every single American regarding when we're born, who we love, which God we're allowed to worship, and when and how we die.

NOW is the time to expose the evangelical recruitment taking place in the Air Force in Colorado and the accompanying ridicule and persecution of soldiers who have different religious beliefs.

NOW is the time (albeit it four years LATE) to prove you care about the safety of Americans and aggressively pursue the security of our borders so that al Qaeda members cannot come into America from Mexico and KILL US.

Above all else, NOW IS THE TIME to reveal this President as the one who is truly aiding and abetting the enemy by providing them free, complimentary OTJ training in Iraq where they can hone their craft while killing our American soldiers.

NOW is the time to STOP being quiet and milquetoasty and to aggressively pursue this Administration's lies (I know they're numerous, ongoing, and difficult to keep track of) and reveal them for what they truly are.

MOST OF ALL, NOW is the time to honestly express what Congressman Murtha REALLY said when he outlined his plan to leave Iraq. It was a very thoughtful, sensible plan, and the fact that administration henchmen are maliciously mischaracterizing it should be revealed and aggressively FOUGHT.

If you truly foresee a future for your party, NOW is the time to embrace and advertise something the Administration doesn't have: A PLAN for Iraq. Although you might be able to win some elections by simply being the least worst party, is that really the future you envision for the Democratic party?

The ball is in your court. Don't let this one get away.... again.

Americans are losing patience.

the Supreme Court's decision on eminent domain, either, and I also hope that guy buys Souter's property and turns it into a hotel.  I love the name of the restaurant he wants to build in the hotel: Just Desserts.  (I can't remember which TV show I saw that on because, contrary to those on these boards who already have me figured out, I DON'T only watch MSNBC.  I actually flip back and forth between MSNBC and Fox.  I'm sure it was one one of those stations, though.)

And I totally agree with a woman's right to choose.

I do have a problem with partial birth abortions, based on my limited understanding of it, which is what I've heard the conservatives say about a full or nearly full-term baby being basically born and then "beaten to death" by the doctor.  (From what I've discovered from some conservatives on these boards in the past few days, I take everything they say with a grain of salt and accept the possibility up front that it's an exaggerated statement devoid of critical facts.)

But if this is indeed true, then I don't know how it could be considered anything BUT murder.  And I don't understand the issue regarding the health of the mother because if the mother can survive the delivery of a baby that can survive outside the womb, then the issue would seem nonexistent. (Again, I don't know that much about it.)

I also have mixed feelings about children and abortion.  One the one hand, it is a surgical procedure, and if my child can't even have her ears pierced without my consent, then certainly she shouldn't be allowed to have a surgical procedure without my consent.

But what about if she's been impregnated as the result of a rape by her father or other family member?  That sick stuff DOES happen in this country.  What if she knows she wants an abortion?  Should she be forced to have the baby?  I can think of situations where she might be safer if the parents didn't know, but yet I still feel the parents have a right to know.  I'm very conflicted about this particular issue and can't say I have a definite opinion.  That's why I'd like to hear more on the subject from some intelligent, thoughtful, nonjudgmental people.

As far as gay marriages, I admit I get a little "twinge" at the use of the word "marriage." It might be that something deep in my gut is telling me that marriage SHOULD be between a man and a woman.  After all, WE invented it and WE wrecked it.  I think they should invent a new name for their unions because from what I've personally seen, gay couples seem to last for a very long time, much longer than some marriages I know. As far as whether or not they should have rights, why SHOULDN'T they?  I don't recall a day during puberty when I woke up and made the decision that I was going to be straight.  Likewise, I'm willing to bet that no gay person woke up and decided to be gay.  I just don't understand why people are so threatened by the thought that a group might actually have RIGHTS in this country.  As with abortion or stem cell research, etc., if they don't believe in it, they shouldn't PARTICIPATE IN IT. I'm neither pro-gay or anti-gay.  (A quick look in the mirror, though, reminds me that I'm definitely pro-gray. )

With all of these social issues, as you said, we will "stand in judgment with our maker."  That's between us and our own personal God, and those with different religious/spiritual beliefs have no right to shove their beliefs down our throat.

I saw a post on the other board referring to when the U.S. was founded, saying that the vast majority was Christian but that others were given "the freedom to others not to believe..."  

NOBODY can "give" anyone "freedom" to either believe or not to believe, and the fact that this poster thinks they can is either very stupid or very scary, and I'm not exactly sure which it is. I think this is relevant because I believe there are some conservatives out there who don't only want the law to reflect their specific narrow brand of religion, but they would LOVE to be able to control what people think and believe.

Knowing that Bush is going to appoint one (maybe two before the end of the year) new Supreme Court Justice(s) scares me because, as you said, our rights are being slowly taken away, and this man has proven by his own actions that the personal freedoms of others aren't things that he cares for much, especially freedom of speech and ideas. That's why he banned anyone who didn't agree 100% with his views from all of his "open town hall" meetings.

We also have an evangelical Senator who holds a public meeting in a search and says that liberals aren't people of faith.

First, it's freedom of speech.  Next, it will be freedom of religion.  What about freedom of "thought." 

I wonder what their views on stem cell research would be if it was discovered that stem cell research held the key to developing a new technique to control thought processes of those who disagree with them.

However, I don't think it's because of President Bush AND his DADDY. I think George W. came into office hell bent on finishing what his daddy DIDN'T finish and only needed a reason, real or invented, to "finish" it.  And I totally agree with you when you say that this was his personal agenda. I think the disconnect is that many people want him to focus on terror, but his personal agenda has always caused his focus instead to be on Iraq, and I personally am very fearful for the future of this country as a result of that.

I believe they will definitely find a way to twist it if some are found guilty. Under no circumstances will they admit that this administration could possibly do anything wrong.

It should be criminal to expose children to such hostility and insanity. It sounds like real violence could have ensued if these whackos would have been crossed in any way.

I almost feel for some of these people.  A brief visit to the Conservative board left me thinking I should have worn a helmet and worn body armor.  Although it's a scary place over there, it must be terrible to exist inside a body that harbors such rage and hatred every day, 24/7.  I don't understand what has happened to their religion, but my Christian religion still promotes love, tolerance, respect and the principles of the Golden Rule, all attributes that seem completely foreign to them.  All they do is trash others and haven't contributed one positive thing to that board.

Sometimes I think there isn't much difference between these people and the terrorists who attacked us and other countries.  They both exhibit signs of mental illness, a maniacal obsession with controlling what everyone believes, and they both promote hatred, violence and intolerance in the name of their respective gods.  About the only main difference I can see is that the terrorists, unfortunately, seem to be much more intelligent in their pursuit of their goals.

I had the same feeling about Roberts and I was glad to hear he had done this pro bono work.

Let's hope he really is a "good guy" with a heart and a brain.

With every day that passes, I feel less and less hope.  I've never been this frightened of a politician in my entire life.

And I wonder if we had stepped it up a while back, how much of this would be going on today.  The more we delay, the better they get at their "craft."

I wish we had never gone in there to begin with and think it's one of the biggest mistakes a president could have ever made.  But we're there, and we can't just go in there, turn their country upside down and leave without leaving them with some semblance of normalcy.  Those who said this is a quagmire were right on the money.

Anyone who has anything less than a hate Bush agenda should burn in hell as far as GT is concerned.  I too don't agree with Bush 100% on everything, but that does not matter to GT.  If you agree with Bush on anything you should not pass GO and go straight to hell along with Bush's Stepford wife and alcoholic daughters.  Am I painting that picture correctly GT?

I am a moderate conservative, and a Republican, although I'd consider a moderate Democrat like Joe Lieberman or somebody reasonable, however, the Democrats won't nomiate anybody like that, so my vote stays Republican. 

As for hand outs and hand ups... There's a big difference between somebody who is unable to work and somebody who is unwilling to work.  The individual who is physically or mentally unable to work, or the hard working family who falls on hard times for whatever reason that is out of their control, those people deserve some help.  Hands outs/hands up, whatever you want to call it should be viewed as a stepping stone to self sufficiency. 

I feel for the innocent victims (children) of those who embrace a lifestyle of just taking free money from those of us in society who work hard, but I havn't much compassion for able bodied young people who refuse to work.  If an uneducated person is working hard but not making enough to sustain themselves they can avail themselves of food stamps, WIC, free school lunches, and I don't a problem with that.  But, drive through a poor neighborhood and watch the young healthy people sitting on stoops and standing on corners doing nothing all day instead of working.  Whether it be pursuing their GED, or taking vocational classes, they should be at least thinking of bettering themselves instead of just resigning to a life of free hand outs.

I hear ya and yes I agree we should stay away..There are a lof of other political boards through the net, where we can discourse/debate with conservatives over ideas and America without being attacked like mad dogs (I hate to use the analogy as mad dogs as my dogs are much kinder than the conservatives who post here..smile)..

I think O'Reilly got a taste of his own medicine and was about to lose it.  I roared when Phil called him Billy, and Phil in no way denigrated Bill's nephew, but Phil had asked if any of O'Reilly's kids are serving in Iraq.  O'Reilly tried to use his nephew's service to detract from the fact that NONE of his own children are there.  I think that's what made O'Reilly the angriest:  The fact that Phil zapped him on that point.

And now that Libby (yuck! I should change my moniker) and Rove are both implicated in the Plame scandal, it will be interesting to see what Fitzgerald's findings are, and they should be coming soon.

I also agree about Cheney.  He's very scary.  There is definitely a very shrewd, conniving network at work in this administration, and Bush simply isn't bright enough to do this on his own.  And there are no standards of decency left on any level in this administration, which is incredible for the CONs, considering all they ever babble about is their superior *decency*.  For example, they blatantly lie without blinking an eye, as do some of their more dedicated followers.  If anyone dares to disagree with this president, the response it to DESTROY the opponent (not unlike what happens on these boards, only to a more dangerous degree, such as exposing Valerie Plame, for example).  Nothing is out of bounds any more.

I'm eagerly awaiting the results of Fitzgerald's investigation. 

Bush and his military brass treated this family horribly.  They did nothing but lie about everything.  (Big surprise, huh?)

They tried to use Pat Tillman as their poster child for recruiting purposes, but Tillman wouldn't agree to be used that way.

When I think if the incredible courage and integrity Pat Tillman had and I look at what a coward Bush was when it came to fighting in a war and what a lying sack of crap he is today, it's easy to see who the REAL man is, and it just makes me want to spit on Bush.