It does not matter who reported it, Taiga...
Posted By: Observer on 2007-11-28
In Reply to: More like outdated and slanted memory! - Taiga
there are facts within it that are not in dispute. Take the Tim Russert thing for example. He had the pictures of the 747 fuselage at Salman Pak. He showed it on his TV show. He showed it to Cheney. Only at that time, it was RUSSERT who was saying to CHENEY "Can you honestly sit there and tell me you don't think there is a 9-11 connection?" That is a fact, Taiga. It happened. I can see why no one else would report it. And as to timely? You have to report it when it happened. And it did happen. All I am saying is...basically you can't believe ANYONE because the left wing and the right wing have been on both sides, top and bottom of this issue. They have all flip-flopped on it. So WHO do you believe? I tend to believe the picture. I have seen the picture. They showed the picture on TV numerous times (the Salman Pak picture). And as the article stated, none of those facts are in dispute, even from the 9-11 commission, except one.
As to the 9-11 Commission...don't get me started. Did you actually watch any of it while it was happening? Talk about a stacked deck and questions asked to get certain answers. What a JOKE that was. That being said, there is a lot of information that came out that never made it to the "assessment" they put out. I was watching it during the time George Tenet testified. He says in his book he never said slam dunk, but he darn well did, I HEARD him. And that never made it into the "assessment" either. I purposely watched as much of the 9-11 hearings as I could, because I knew a lot was not going to make the "assessment." Independent they were not. That was exceedingly obvious from the questioning.
I do not understand your penchant for "timely." If something happened, it happened. That is what I mean about selective memory. You remember it if it is germane to your discussion, and you dismiss it as "the past" (like it never happened) and use "timely" as an excuse. I really don't get that. But, I don't have to...whatever floats yer boat.
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Hi there Taiga! sm
I think both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are very intelligent and dynamic individuals. My only exception to Hillary was her yes vote regarding Iraq. As a woman I would be quite enthralled to see, for the first time in American history, a woman elected to the highest office in the nation. I'm old enough to remember when the political arena was strictly off limits to women, and if she gets elected this would be a historic first!!
Sheeeessshhhh, Taiga....
Do you like it better from Common Dreams? Pay special attention to the part out distancing himself from the antisemitic comments (McGovern).
Published on Saturday, June 18, 2005 by CommonDreams.org
John Conyers' Letter to the Washington Post
June 17, 2005
Mr. Michael Abramowitz, National Editor;
Mr. Michael Getler, Ombudsman;
Mr. Dana Milbank;
The Washington Post,
1150 15th Street, NW, Washington, D.C. 20071
Dear Sirs:
I write to express my profound disappointment with Dana Milbank's June 17 report, "Democrats Play House to Rally Against the War," which purports to describe a Democratic hearing I chaired in the Capitol yesterday. In sum, the piece cherry-picks some facts, manufactures others out of whole cloth, and does a disservice to some 30 members of Congress who persevered under difficult circumstances, not of our own making, to examine a very serious subject: whether the American people were deliberately misled in the lead up to war. The fact that this was the Post's only coverage of this event makes the journalistic shortcomings in this piece even more egregious.
In an inaccurate piece of reporting that typifies the article, Milbank implies that one of the obstacles the Members in the meeting have is that "only one" member has mentioned the Downing Street Minutes on the floor of either the House or Senate. This is not only incorrect but misleading. In fact, just yesterday, the Senate Democratic Leader, Harry Reid, mentioned it on the Senate floor. Senator Boxer talked at some length about it at the recent confirmation hearing for the Ambassador to Iraq. The House Democratic Leader, Nancy Pelosi, recently signed on to my letter, along with 121 other Democrats asking for answers about the memo. This information is not difficult to find either. For example, the Reid speech was the subject of an AP wire service report posted on the Washington Post website with the headline "Democrats Cite Downing Street Memo in Bolton Fight". Other similar mistakes, mischaracterizations and cheap shots are littered throughout the article.
The article begins with an especially mean and nasty tone, claiming that House Democrats "pretended" a small conference was the Judiciary Committee hearing room and deriding the decor of the room. Milbank fails to share with his readers one essential fact: the reason the hearing was held in that room, an important piece of context. Despite the fact that a number of other suitable rooms were available in the Capitol and House office buildings, Republicans declined my request for each and every one of them. Milbank could have written about the perseverance of many of my colleagues in the face of such adverse circumstances, but declined to do so. Milbank also ignores the critical fact picked up by the AP, CNN and other newsletters that at the very moment the hearing was scheduled to begin, the Republican Leadership scheduled an almost unprecedented number of 11 consecutive floor votes, making it next to impossible for most Members to participate in the first hour and one half of the hearing.
In what can only be described as a deliberate effort to discredit the entire hearing, Milbank quotes one of the witnesses as making an anti-semitic assertion and further describes anti-semitic literature that was being handed out in the overflow room for the event. First, let me be clear: I consider myself to be friend and supporter of Israel and there were a number of other staunchly pro-Israel members who were in attendance at the hearing. I do not agree with, support, or condone any comments asserting Israeli control over U.S. policy, and I find any allegation that Israel is trying to dominate the world or had anything to do with the September 11 tragedy disgusting and offensive.
That said, to give such emphasis to 100 seconds of a 3 hour and five minute hearing that included the powerful and sad testimony (hardly mentioned by Milbank) of a woman who lost her son in the Iraq war and now feels lied to as a result of the Downing Street Minutes, is incredibly misleading. Many, many different pamphlets were being passed out at the overflow room, including pamphlets about getting out of the Iraq war and anti-Central American Free Trade Agreement, and it is puzzling why Milbank saw fit to only mention the one he did.
In a typically derisive and uninformed passage, Milbank makes much of other lawmakers calling me "Mr. Chairman" and says I liked it so much that I used "chairmanly phrases." Milbank may not know that I was the Chairman of the House Government Operations Committee from 1988 to 1994. By protocol and tradition in the House, once you have been a Chairman you are always referred to as such. Thus, there was nothing unusual about my being referred to as Mr. Chairman.
To administer his coup-de-grace, Milbank literally makes up another cheap shot that I "was having so much fun that [I] ignored aides' entreaties to end the session." This did not occur. None of my aides offered entreaties to end the session and I have no idea where Milbank gets that information. The hearing certainly ran longer than expected, but that was because so many Members of Congress persevered under very difficult circumstances to attend, and I thought - given that - the least I could do was allow them to say their piece. That is called courtesy, not "fun."
By the way, the "Downing Street Memo" is actually the minutes of a British cabinet meeting. In the meeting, British officials - having just met with their American counterparts - describe their discussions with such counterparts. I mention this because that basic piece of context, a simple description of the memo, is found nowhere in Milbank's article.
The fact that I and my fellow Democrats had to stuff a hearing into a room the size of a large closet to hold a hearing on an important issue shouldn't make us the object of ridicule. In my opinion, the ridicule should be placed in two places: first, at the feet of Republicans who are so afraid to discuss ideas and facts that they try to sabotage our efforts to do so; and second, on Dana Milbank and the Washington Post, who do not feel the need to give serious coverage on a serious hearing about a serious matter-whether more than 1700 Americans have died because of a deliberate lie. Milbank may disagree, but the Post certainly owed its readers some coverage of that viewpoint.
Sincerely,
John Conyers, Jr.
FYI, I googled it because I had heard that Conyers tried to distance himself after the antisemitic rant of McGovern. The Front Page thing came up. First time I have ever read Front Page, had no idea it was a hard right wing site. From now on I will look for the far left wing sites, how's that? The truth is the truth, doesn't matter what "page" it is posted on. GEEEZZZ.
All righty then, Taiga....
we can finally put this to rest. You are posting as Taiga, and you close the post with:
"And if all this has grown tiresome why do you continue to read my posts and respond?"
So, Teddy, tell me again how you do not post under different monikers. Can we please drop this whole liar thing now???
Yup, Taiga has come out of the closet
Where did I ever say I don't post under other monikers?
Taiga is the name I have used on the Medquist board for just about as long as this board has been in existence. I had always thought it wise to keep a political persona separate from a work persona but with all these accusations of fraud and "untruthfulness" I will no longer be using Teddy and will stick to Taiga from now on with any posting I do on the MTStars board.
Actually my original moniker on the political board, going back several years, even back to when both libs and cons were put together under one grouping was "Observer." When you began posting as "Observer" I switched to Teddy for obvious reasons. So in the end, there really are more than one of us elitist, snobbish jerks out there!!
Bottom line, Taiga....
did Murtha or did Murtha not say "The surge is working?" Yes, he did. Why did CBS choose not to print all the disclaimers? You got me, I don't know. As to Murtha adding the disclaimers, he probably suddenly remembered he is going to have to talk to Pelosi come Monday. I don't blame him, I would be backpedaling too. lol.
For the record, Teddy/Taiga....
the rest of the post said when it wasn't in response to what had been thrown at me first. Methinks you are very guilty of what you always accuse me of....cutting and pasting out of context. Teddy is taking over again.
Not even close Teddy/Taiga....
not EVEN close. lol.
Your figures just further validate Taiga's post.
She said, "Actually the vote went by geography rather than party lines as is obvious below." Your figures support that statement.
For Taiga...sorry I did not answer your post about CBS and Politico...
as to I should let CBS know that the Iraq link in their article went to Politico....this is from the CBS news site:
From Our Partner:
soooooo I'm thinking CBS knows that the link went to Politico...ya think?? You falsely accused me, and you were wrong. I DID get my article from CBS.
Just keeping the record straight.
Who reported that? SM
But as I said, it really doesn't matter to me. I like him.
reported it
I reported it to the administrator and monitor.
This definitely needs to be reported!
I certainly hope you report this to the monitor, gt. They KNOW you're Jewish. You've mentioned it many, many times on this board.
Can you imagine how pitiful their lives must be to cause them to stoop to such a low level?
What they really deserve is pity.
NOBODY bothered them on their board. They came here ONLY to cause trouble and try to turn this board into a sewer like their own board. I can't imagine what it must be like to harbor so much hatred in one heart; it can't leave much room for the Jesus they claim to worship so much. It must be a very heavy burden. We've done nothing to them.
This board was starting to become a pleasant place to visit again. I guess it was just too much for them to take. 
Reported to the FBI??
Who's paranoid now?? My point is that this is a board that at best is duplicitous. I did not know it was privately owned and run by an extremely conservative individual. I know I left the religion board a long time ago because it was run by someone who appeared to be of the religous right who deleted posts left and right and was very ugly about it in the process. On an open forum, people can be of any faith or none at all. I seem to remember the Pagan/Wiccan posts going first. Anyway, at the time I thought it was odd that MTStars would allow one of its volunteers (see below) to dismiss anyone who was not of his or her persuasion on a public forum. I do not think that a private person with a private agenda should be given a platform to expound on that platform on an open discussion board. The first page of MT Stars states, and I quote...MTStars provides this site, free of charge, to all MTs and those holding other related positions in the healthcare industry. We believe that an open forum with a minimum of deletion is paramount to successful networking across the globe, and we are confident that this is why MTStars is the success it is today.
MTStars takes this opportunity to thank our many sponsors and volunteers. Without you MTStars would not be a reality. That last statement leads me to believe that sponsors put up the money and volunteer MTs did the administrative/moderator work and had to be openminded and fair in their assessments of posts. I wonder what the sponsors would think if they knew exactly what it is they are buying (in its entirety). I am looking forward to speaking with someone from MTStars as well as ForuMatrix. The more you know...
Reported to the FBI...
Friend Lurker, you are the one who sounds paranoid. Yes, a death threat to the President of the United States, ANY President of ANY party, is supposed to be reported to the FBI or Secret Service, regardless of where it originates. That is what the poster meant. As to this board....what is your problem? If you don't want to post here, don't. If you don't like the way it is handled, don't stay. So far as I can tell, the only posts that have been removed have been ones that bash this country or bash the President. I trust it would be the same no matter what party the President belonged to. It is called respect of tradition, respect of the office, respect of the origins of this country...which you obviously don't give a whit about. Thank God there are people who still do. Thank God!
It has just been reported
to the FBI tips hotline. I hope they will definitely take action on this!
CNN just reported it as well.........
-
I'm saying CNN reported showed it rt b4
Still looking, but since CNN repeats their stuff so much, you can probably catch the report later this p.m.
You mean reported by Politico
You couldn't possibly be quoting Fox as reliable, now could you???
FOX reported this but not a word from CNN
)
Wrong you are.......it has already been reported
@
They also reported that this operation is
in "retaliation" for those Israelis killed by Hamas bombings into Israel since the cease fire expired on December 19. Hamas launched their offensive because (as usual) Israel failed to live up to their end of the bargain and did not lift the blockade of supplies into Gaza, which was a precondition of the original cease fire (that lasted 6 months).
The report said that for all of 2008, Hamas had killed a grand total of 9 Israelis with their home-made missles, 2 of them being the ones you mentioned that occurred since this most recent operation. It is difficult to ascertain how many Palestinians have been killed in the past year by the Israelis just in their "normal" day-to-day policing in the occupied terrotories, but you can bet your bootie it's been more than 9.
Bottom line has not changed. That's life (and death) under occupation.
So if this story was reported on
CNN and you claim that it was picked up on from Fox News with Fox's spin....wouldn't it be the responsbility of CNN to debunk that then instead of just reporting what Fox News did if Fox News is indeed wrong. If Fox News is full of crap and CNN reports the same thing...wouldn't CNN be full of crap too or are you giving CNN a free pass just like the media does Obama? Just curious.
Oh, I feel you. I don't know which is better for the Iraqi's, b/c what is usually reported is sm
the military casualties, not the civilian casualties in Iraq.
Fox News did report this week about a military man whose family was murdered, wife and children while he was out working. That's awful, that's terror. When I hear stories like that I do think of the terror the people are experiencing due to this war, but they did have it bad under Sadaam. They're in a catch 22.
This was reported on none other than Fox News yesterday.
I'd say if she's camping out in front of his house what would it hurt to peek his head out and talk with the woman? But then again, he probably has nothing to say other than, "We're making progress. War is hard."
She's obviously had time and enough grief to set in to do a 360. You know people handle grief differently.
I think he doesn't want to talk to her now because she's upset, and Bush does not do well in face-to-face adversial situations, so he probably wouldn't be able to help her by talking to her anyway.
This story is reported all over the networks, not just
nm
No, but they have repeatedly reported the anchor
@
Excuse me. This was reported by NBC, LA Times, etc.
Now you can see why "poisoning the well" arguments are so pathetic unless you get your facts straight first.
And, incidentally, there's no network that covers the news more fairly than Fox (sometimes even to the point that I am aggravated when their guests or commentators take a certain position). You might start watching it yourself, and then you'd never post a ridiculous comment like this again.
Excuse me. This was reported by NBC, LA Times, etc.
Now you can see why "poisoning the well" arguments are so pathetic unless you get your facts straight first.
And, incidentally, there's no network that covers the news more even-handedly than Fox, to the point that people on each side of the aisle accuse them of being slanted toward the other side!! I know they've aggravated me more than once with their liberal guests and commentators - but that's the hallmark of fair reporting, IMHO.
Stop drinking the lefty koolaid.
It was reported on all the major news
All I have do to know what will be posted on this form is watch Fox commentators and read a few conservative websites. All some of you do is regurgitate the half-truths and out-right lies spoon fed to you by people with an agenda. Think for yourselves once in a while.
Reported on Fox news. I can't verify...I wasn't there.
x
channel 2 reported on recruiters tactics
Channel 2 did a bit on their nightly news. I believe it was a college paper reporter who went undercover and told the recruiters he had done drugs and other things that would have disqualified him and the recruiters were salivating at the thought of signing him up and told him ways to get into the service even though. These recruiters would take a dead man if his body was still warm, for pete sake. I say, you need people in the military, check out the people in the administration, ask if their children will join for the *better good of all to bring democracy to the world*.
couldn't find the clip, but CNN reported it and
nm
Just wait a minute. The flags were reported
nm
You will NOT see this site reported in the mainstream media....
way too much in the tank for Obama. In fact, they are as mesmerized as the people on this site (remember Chris Matthews of MSNBC and the tingle up his leg when Obama spoke). Never could I "pull the lever" for this guy. No way. No how.
I agree also. News media reported after (NM)
x
Nah, she probably already made up her mind it's false, even if AP reported it...nm
Excuse me. I gave the AI exactly as reported by Rasmussen.
Misrepresent my eye.
And only 37% think the country is going in the right direction - I didn't even mention that little number.
The fact that this is a daily poll makes absolutely no difference because the +30 number he started off with was a daily number as well, so it's comparing apples to apples. All you have to do is look at the trend to see it's going DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN with - exactly AS I SAID - a few blips up.
Galls ya, doesn't it?
Nice try, but no cigar and/or kewpie doll for yew today!
Cool. I reported it to them too. Hey mods, leave this thread, yes? NM
I reported 'Ahem's' and 'Anon2's' messages to the moderators
I suppose it is the same person.
Between May and July 2001, the National Security Agency reported
at least 33 different intercepts indicating a possible imminent al Qaeda attack. The FBI issued 216 secret, internal threat warnings between January 1 and September 10, 2001, of which 6 mentioned possible attacks against airports or airlines. The Federal Aviation Administration issued 15 notices of possible terrorist threats against American airlines. The State Department issued 9 separate warnings during the same period to embassies and citizens abroad, including 5 that highlighted a general threat to Americans all over the world.
Yeah, that Bill Clinton wasn't doing his job alright.
Oh, wait.
Nicely done Taiga, nicely done :)
Point well made. I still don't see what Observer's rant had to do with the topic of the thread though.  Oh well. Can't make sense out of nonsense I guess.
What's the matter?
Hit a nerve? Did I offend? Good.
What's the matter? No one is
week.....Camelot is coming apart! Actually, glad to see the pubs are big enough not to be saying *told you so.* Does all the questions about past associations make more sense now? It just keeps getting deeper and deeper and dirtier and dirtier. But, of course, if you have drank enough of the Obama kool-aid all of this too shall be whisked away. I know, I know, let's just give him time. He's going to make things better, yes he can!
What's the matter?
su
It won't matter which one. sm
Both are beholden to special interests and the ruling class. A lot of people are oblivious to it, but there is a ruling class. The candidate I supported did confirm this, and so do a few of the candidates running on the third party tickets. Ever wonder why things never change and get worse, this is why.
There is a diary by a blogger on Daily Kos that explains it very well. It is very informative and worth the read.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/7/27/65732/1557/694/557641
what does that matter?
My nieces and nephews are raised by their white mothers... my grandson is being raised by a white mother and a white grandmother and a white great-grandmother, my stepchildren are being raised by their white mothers - that does not change the situation of how the world views these kids... and it does not change how they view themselves. Every one of the mixed kids in my family has a different answer for whether they are white, black, or biracial, and their answer does not necessarily go along with the color of their own skin.
I also think that being raised by a "white" grandmother was part of Obama's problem. She was an older generation, still scared of black people, and she was teaching Obama to be "white" and when he got older he realized that he was not "white". Because he looks like a black man, he obviously feels what a black man feels because he is treated in the world as a black man.
Yes, mixed children are beautiful - but they are "different" than us in that they are neither white or black and they are treated differently for that reason. I hope that changes before my grandchildren get older, but so far, they are still expected to conform to being white or being black...
If a mixed child acts white, he is accepted by the white kids and taunted by the black kids, if he acts black, he is taunted by the white kids and accepted by the black kids. The mixed children have to be taught from birth that they are a mixture of 2 heritages and to embrace both of them; but at this point, they still choose one or the other.
you can think all you want.....it just won't matter with him
!!
It does not matter! It is just that a man has sex with
a woman and a woman has sex with a man.
This is it! And this is right and normal !
Anything else isn't.
How can the government legalize it when it is morally wrong.
Again: I wished Miss California had won.
Would it matter?
Would it really change your mind? Or would you dismiss it away?
Have you ever read the Bible from start to finish with an open mind? Or even just the book of John if you don't want to devote that much time to it.
If you really want proof, try that. Seriously.
No matter how you try to say it, it's still
Since you're so concerned about teaching children right from wrong, it would be perfectly acceptable and should always be taught to children to never EVER call names, make fun of, or bully anyone! There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to even bring up the word 'homosexual' now is there?
If you teach a child not to bully or pick at anyone then you are teaching tolerance aren't you..... without even bringing up the word.
How hard is that to understand!?
What do you mean it does not matter?
Of course it matters. There isn't a draft registration if the intent isn't to SOME DAY have a draft!! Otherwise, what's the point in it? Use your head! It's to have a pool of young males to pull into govt wars!!!!
Just because we at this moment have a volunteer armed forces doesn't mean it will HAVE to stay that way.....
it can change on a whim!
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