My point of view was stated quite clearly. People on the left may be blinded....
Posted By: ...but the rest of us aren't. Very clear. on 2009-01-06
In Reply to: I don't see anyone anywhere trying to - sm
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My point of view was stated quite clearly. People on the left may be blinded....
Kind of sad, actually.
Another point of view...
Thinking About Iraq on King Day
By Star Parker
Monday, January 15, 2007
The characteristic of greatness - whether we are talking about a great man or great art - is that it transcends time and place. It dips into that which is universally and eternally true and applies those truths to a particular moment and a particular place.
Re-reading, after many reads, Dr. Martin Luther King's words of Aug. 28, 1963, the famous I Have a Dream speech, his greatness rings clearer than ever.
Because King did indeed touch the heavens on that day and pull down kernels of eternal truths about freedom and the condition of man, those words of 40-plus years ago have relevance to our struggles today. They can serve as guidance in these difficult times.
Am I saying that King's message from 1963 can guide us in today's conundrums _ about our embroilment in Iraq, about the Middle East, about America's role in the world? Yes, I am saying this.
The power of King's message, the unquestionable reason that the movement he led was successful, was his appeal to the truth of freedom and its universal applicability to all men.
By identifying and appealing to the freedom of man as a universal and eternal truth, and going on to make clear that this truth defined what this great country is about, then King's conclusion _ the intolerability of conditions that denied any American full participation in this freedom _ could not be denied.
Beyond this central message, King made other very important points in this speech.
One of key importance was that responsibility for solving a problem does not necessarily imply direct responsibility in having caused that problem.
Although the responsibility clearly was in the hands of those Americans with power, overwhelmingly white Americans, to fix the problems in the country that limited the availability of freedom to all, this did not mean that all those same Americans were racists or had caused the problem to begin with.
The responsibility for fixing these problems came, rather, with being the beneficiaries of a country whose destiny and identity was fundamentally linked with the enterprise of freedom.
In King's words, white Americans have come to realize that their destiny is tied up with our destiny and they have come to realize that their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom.
He appealed to blacks not to allow suffering to translate into bitterness nor into categorical hate of white Americans. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred.
Instead, King exhorted black Americans to Continue to work with the faith that unearned suffering is redemptive.
So Dr. King accomplished a lot of business that August day in 1963.
He recognized the universal truth of human liberty. He recognized our country as a unique vessel of that truth. He appealed to Americans with power to assume their responsibilities as the beneficiaries of liberty to make this a better and freer country. And he appealed to black Americans to assume a different kind of responsibility _ to not allow themselves to be destroyed by unearned suffering but to be redeemed by it.
The prophet is a lonely man because he brings a message that people do not want to hear.
Dr. King's activism was not welcomed by most whites and a good many blacks.
There is natural appeal in the inertia of the status quo. Change and assumption of new responsibilities and challenges are welcomed by few.
Turmoil tells us that something is wrong and we have no choice but to open our eyes and ears and assume the responsibilities that are cast upon us.
I am, of course, not a military tactician and am in no position to speculate about how best to use American troops to midwife a portion of the world that clearly needs help in becoming more modern, more civil and freer.
However, I can say, that I am in complete sympathy with our president who senses that America has a unique and special role to play in this world. We cannot shirk responsibilities that are clearly ours.
I cannot help but think that it is not an accident that the United States stands so alone, despite many other nations that claim to have similar commitments to and stakes in civility and liberty. The way they act makes clear that they don't.
The truths that Dr. King articulated in so crystal clear a way in 1963 continue to resound today. Freedom is what this country is about. We have no choice. It is our heritage. We thrive and prosper from it. And we cannot avoid the responsibilities that come with it in our engagement with the rest of the world.
I appreciate your point of view, Just Me....
and I will be the first to admit, as I admitted right up front to GT/GW/BW/FPJ who knows what else, she pushed my buttons and took great joy in doing so. She attributed things to me I never said, condemned an entire political party en masse and had the nerve to call me a bigot and that was the nicest thing she called me. If you followed the posts you know that most of the name calling from my end was just repeating back to her what I had been called. The same kinds of exchanges happen on political talk shows every night. Have you ever watched Chris Matthews or Keith Olbermann?
Her parting shot...Time to take out the trash.
In deference to your request, I will say this...I believe that GW believes with every fiber of her being that she is right and is passionate about her beliefs, and I certainly understand that. I think she is probably a nice person to those who share her views, loves her family like the rest of us and would like to fix all the perceived injustices in the world, just like the rest of us would. But you can't move forward if you don't let go of the hate and the blame game. There is plenty of blame to go around, on both sides of the aisle. No law, no program, no nothing can be passed in this country without both Republicans and Democrats voting for it, fact. We can't blame it all on the left and we can't blame it all on the right or the middle or whoever. In fact, we shouldn't be blaming at all, just trying to fix. But...as I am sure you well know, Just Me...the radical side of BOTH parties don't see the middle road.
The irony of the whole thing is that I am not a registered Republican...registered Independent. Only register Republican in primary years because I can't vote if I don't register Republican or Democrat...that's the law. Yet I was thrown right in and condemned right along with every other "pub."
Just Me, sometimes you just have to stand for what you believe, and not let a bully pigeon hole you and call you things you are not. And sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. That is just a part of life. I apologize if you were offended by witnessing it. I truly do. I apologize to anyone who was.
Just to clarify: I don't hate immigrants or immigration. That is how this country was born. Save Native Americans, we ALL descend from immigrants. I just feel immigration should be legal, and that immigrants should become tax-paying citizens before they get the benefits of citizenship. That's it. Real simple. And not bigoted.
And for the record, I don't hate all Democrats or blame them for all the ills in the world. Like I said...plenty of blame to go around on both sides. My parents were Democrats (old school Democrats). There have been Democrats I greatly admired...John Kennedy...Zell Miller. Great Americans in my opinion.
My point of view
I really don't care if a president cheats on his or HER spouse under most circumstances. But when his little playmate testifies he was being "serviced" by her with talking on the phone with important people, that bothers me. She very well could have heard confidential things she shouldn't have. When you are in the Oval Office you are on the clock and should act like it.
Another point of view...or two (sm)
http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=178&nid=17587
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-11/20/content_10388377.htm
exactly my point of view, thanks, just me'.......nm
nm
You're entitled to your point of view
but not everybody thinks he has lied. Just because people say he has lied does not make it true. There has been nothing substantial to support that he lied. I just wish people would just quit throwing the word lie around so freely, because they are jumping to conclusions with no substantiation.
What scares me is I wonder how many people could withstand a real threat to this country. We are so un-unified if it came across the television that we were being attacked....I'm not sure some of you would believe it....you'd just say, "another Bush lie..."
Our generation knows nothing of true hardship. The Iraq war is not a quagmire...it's not another Vietnam...it's not anything like the dems are whining about it being....
what a bigoted point of view!
I suppose it is okay for the "men" to have affairs and the other issues they have had? that's not dysfunctional? It is okay to leave it to the women to take to fix their crap?
This really makes me both mad and sad --
I'd like to see things from your point of view but
I can't seem to get my head up that far in my behind.
Someone who respected her point of view
Both similar to yours. Though her point of view was a little different from yours, she had a great sense of humor. She knew she was going to be attacked by certain posters on this board no matter what she said and she never cared and never caved in to the ridicule and the ignorance.
If they finally got to her, then I'm really sorry about that, though I can understand why. I considered her a friend, and I miss her. 
A good uplifting point of view from God.....
http://www.sjchurchofchrist.org/freeboot.shtml
Case in point...what a democratic view....NOT.
YOu have been exposed for what you are, and in typical spin, turn it on to someone else and make them the villain. You guys are like the Wizard of Oz...one head and lots of little bodies running around. :)
Simply displays a different point of view...nm
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Clarification...do not allow dissention to their point of view...nm
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Yes, but if it were FOX and an anti-liberal view point ad...
all liberals would be screaming "censorship".
Case in point. Complete intolerance for any view other than their own.
This is what the Democratic party has become.
Good point. I see no problem with both points of view being taught...
and letting indivdiuals decide. Isn't that what America is about?
Because SOME people on both sides will not respect the view of others, ..sm
and it ends up being a fight match instead of debate. That's why the boards were separated though I agree I have learned a lot from some of the conservative posters even though they don't agree with me. I too am a liberal with some conservative views. While I believe in pro-choice, I think women should chose life. I think marriage should be between a man and a woman, but I'm for civil unions and equal rights for everyone. But as far as this war goes, I'm liberal all the way. I think America has been hoodwinked into this war, and it is a quagmire.
I too think people should be able to bear arms, but not an automatic street sweeper for example.
I THINK I would have voted for Bush if it were not for the Iraqi war. I ALLLLMOST did in 2004, but didn't because of the war and his Operation No Plan to get America out of this. And now, I'm glad I didn't. I rest easier knowing I didn't cast a vote for this administration.
Again, I agree labels are simplistic in a complicated world.
And yet when Christianity is mentioned, many on the left promptly point to the right.
Why is that?
Thanks so much for proving my point about the angry, hate-filled left. sm
You did a perfect job of it. You are incapable of thought other than that driven by hate. Your debates are screeds and your voice is strident and laced with the same adjectives...the word liar comes to mind. Which, of course, you are.
You people on the left are always assuming you
nm
No wonder people are leaving the left in droves. nm
/
you are so blinded you don't even sm
realize what you are saying! I hope God opens your eyes to the truth before its too late.
Guess we were blinded by
x
Actually, blinded by the need for truth and justice.
You know, the laws this country was founded on. Tell me where it's written that our troops fight overseas and are killed for a corrupt president who LIES????? They are fighting for oil and power, not our safety. And we're supposed to just pretend it isn't so? Even Colin Powell can't remain silent about Bush's treachery.
Blinded by the Old One's balding head
.
Not blinded by the hate, just the post where she was told sm
she doesn't have a right to speak is invisible.
I believe when people need to point out
now educated or 'well educated' they are, they wish you to know that they managed to haul themselves through 4 years of college and get a certificate at the end of it. A formal ecucation. We all know folks whose 'education' ended right there.
Then there is the school of experience, university of hard knocks that the rest of us are still attending. Our self-education never ends. Since we do not consider our cup already to be full, it is still possible to pour more information into our cup.
I know a woman with a master's degree in city planning. For a while she cleaned houses for a living. Now she works for a travel agency. I think the prospect of having to compete for and perform in a job suitable to her education was very scary for her. However, she never misses a chance to tell any client or acquainance about her degree and what a 'lark' it is that she's booking tours. She's been on thls 'lark' for 15 years.
Call me weird, but I am not impressed with a degree unless it is required to be a rocket scientist or a brain surgeon. And you have to actually be using the degree.
You people have missed the whole point.
President Obama has not even been president for a week yet and he has an extremely long list of promises that he has made. Truthfully, there are some promises I don't want him to keep because I don't agree with him. He just has a lot of live up to because he has promises so much. I don't expect for him to do everything right away because that is impossible and for you to suggest that I expect this "change" to happen overnight is both stupid and unrealistic. I was just stating the fact that he has been pres for less than a week, has already broken 2 promises he has made, and has a rather large list of more promises. It was just an observation. Don't have a cow.
The POINT IS.....we are ONE people......Americans
x
That's my point.... people should be more worried about
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your mixing people up to try and make a point but not doing it well
First you compare Obama to her, but then on an issue you compare Obama to McCain because you know you don't have anything bad to compare to Gov Palin with. Then when you talk about Obama you praise him and when you talk above Gov Palin you demean her. Where is the fairness in that?
First, nobody is taking anything away from Obama. He is intelligent, articulated, has a beautiful family, has done quite well for himself both career and family wise.
Nobody is saying he is exotic and comparing it to her saying she is a quantessential American Story. People are very impressed with Obama's life history. Hawaii is a very exotic sounding state (I've never heard him described as exotic). Ahh Hawaii, beautiful oceans, white sandy beaches - everyone's dream vacation. You make it sound like people are tearing him down because he was born in Hawaii. Alaska is quite different. You have to admit that hunting moose is not your everyday experience but nowhere in any news source or anywhere have I heard people compare where they grew up in to put one down and bring the other up.
Nobody has said that because his name is Barack he's a radical unpatriotic Muslim. He's a Muslim turned Christian period, but not because of his name, and nobody has said she's a Maverick because of what she named her kids.
Nobody has said he is unstable because he graduated Harvard. On the contrary. People have said he is one of the most intelligent persons to have graduated and become the first black president of the Harvard Law Review. That's not an accomplishment many people can say they have and that is what I am hearing everywhere. And who cares how many colleges she went to (this is your first demeaning statement of her by saying they were "small" colleges instead of just saying "5 colleges"). My DH has attended about 7 colleges all because of where he was living at the time and he is far from "well grounded" and I have never heard people say that about her.
Second part of belittling her and raising him up is by saying he is a "brilliant" community organizer. Brilliant may be your view of him, but I would just say he was a community organizer. No need to say he is brilliant and all other words of praise while belittling her. Yes, she was on TV but she was not a "local weather girl" (another cheap shot at trying to put her down). She was a TV News anchor and covered sports. And your description of her time served as councilwoman, mayor, and governor is a little more than insulting. It goes to verify that you just hate her and what she has accomplished. You need to research all the good things she has done and whether you like it or not, she has done a lot of good things for the people and made their lives better. And to try attack the population of Alaska as though it's some kind of negative for her, and make her sound any less by saying they were small towns and state. Governer is governer. Responsibilites are the same wether your a governor of Alaska, Hawaii, California or any other state (give or take a few of the state programs). BTW Alaska is more than twice the size of Texas. And funny how Dean was the frontrunner for the dems when the population of Vermont is smaller than Alaska (yes, I'm sure you all don't want to remember that little tid bit).
Gov. Sarah Palin was on the city council for 2 years, Chaired the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Committee for 1 year, was mayor of Wasilla for 6 years. She defeated a 3-term mayor. She created positions and even reduced her salary. She cut property taxes by 75% and eliminated personal property and business inventory taxes. She made improvements to the roads and sewers and increased funding to the police department. She also procured funding for storm-water treatment to protect freshwater resources. She ran a second term and won by 74%. She's promoted oil and natural gas resource development. She sold a jet, got rid of a personal chef and drives herself to work from her home (50 miles) even though she is allowed a per diem and hotel. She got rid of the bridge to nowhere and she signed into law the AGIA. So your portrayal of what Gov. Palin has done is quite inaccurate while boosting up Obama. Gov. Palin's past qualifications will most definitely contribute and help her to be a good VP.
Obama was a state legislature from 1997-2004, in the US Senate in 2004, and became a junior senator in 2005. You can't even seriously compare the two.
Yes Obama has been married to Michelle for 19 years and their two daughters are beautiful. Sarah has been married to Todd for 20 years and they have five beautiful children. (your comparing Barack to Sarah in all your answers - so why did you jump to John McCain on this one?)
Whatever kind of safe sex education you want to give pre-schoolers (who should be
more concerned with learning how to read and write is just wrong). Gov. Palin did not advocate teaching only abstinence. And she had nothing to do with her daughter getting pregnant. The best of children come up pregnant both in democratic and republican party.
Funny how you were all for Bill Clinton getting ready to be called "First Dude", but now you have a problem with Todd Palin being called "First Dude", and don't even try to justify that one with Bill Clintons background. Are you saying the the VP's spouse is suppose to have a college education? How egotistical of you. Especially since he is a commercial fisherman, for 18 years worked in the oil fields, member of the United Steelworkers, among other things. That's a pretty stable background.
Kudo's to Michelle for graduating from Harvard, but not everyone wants to go to college to be a lawyer (and in my opinion we need less lawyers in DC, not more), but to take away from Todd Palin because he doesn't have a college degree????
And to mention such an insignificant note that he didn't vote until 25? Who cares? And I'm not sure that is even true, but just plain trivial.
This post is just another liberal post trying to trash and demean decent people, not giving credit where credit due, while propping up your candidate, with inflated statements.
Ok, much clearer now to you?
And Bill Clinton let 800,000 people die in Rwanda. So what's your point? sm
You bleeding heart liberals make me sick.
Again my point is made - you just like arguing and bashing people that don't agree with you
Your bringing up a dead subject while shouting it at us. You started an abortion post on 8/25 and bashed everyone who didn't agree with you, and you were bashing people on 8/22 about the same subject. Everytime someone brought up their viewpoint you be arguing or bashing them. The point I (and others) are making is you keep bringing this up again and again and again and again and when people don't agree with you you bash them, then when they come back to say something you bash them even more. Then when we finally get a break and have new topics, you start another post about the abortion thing again. The abortion issue is getting tiring for all. We know what abortions are, how horrible they are, and we know how babies are made and the stages of their lives (we are MT's and all took the course) but you feel the need to keep it up and up and up and it's getting real old. Besides that it looks like you are posting under other names and then answering yourself.
I want to read people's opinions and questions of issues we are facing. Abortion is not one of them for most of us. Let it go and move on. What I am trying to say is that while I'd like to hear your viewpoints on other issues enough with the abortion and try and not be so argumentative all the time.
Yes, we all have the right to post things, but it looks like you are posting just for the sake of arguing and we're all getting tired of it.
So go ahead bash me some more.
you mean left wing....it's a left wing ding website on the messiah....the right wouldn't bothe
you stated this better than I could have.
I sickens me how the victims of this disaster are now being blamed and vilified by people on the conservative board!
My son (age 20) told me that he met some people last night who were speaking the same way - in essence, that it was the fault pf the citizens of New Orleans for not getting out in time, etc, that they deserved to not be rescued sooner, and that the government was not to blame at all.
And I'm sure those conservative posters on the other board probably consider themselves good Christians and not racist at all.
Meanwhile, it is apparent that our president could do (or not do) anything at all and they will blindly defend him...
I'm going to focus on the positive and not visit that board at all.
We have sent money to the Red Cross and all my children donated clothes to the Salvation Army. This morning our priest said that some evacuees may be relocating to our area, and our parish will welcome them! These are our brothers and sisters in Christ...
good night and peace to ya'll
As I stated above.......... sm
if this situation were to occur, and it does seem that it is with the advent of ASR, then our line rates would be lowered to those paid to Indian MTS, just as the UAW was offered what is paid to foreign auto workers. I could not survive on 0.05 cpl or less in our economy. I doubt anyone else could either.
I'm really sorry to hear about your hubby's situation. I know anyone in the housing industry is facing much the same situation. There is really not a lot of new house construction going on and there is no much call for a trim carpenter in most commercial building.
My opinion is to bring MT back inhouse and pay us a decent HOURLY salary. We deserve it as much as the next person.
he also stated that he
respects other people's beliefs that are different from his own and supports separation of church and state. I guess all we can learn from this issue is that Joe Biden will never personally have an abortion. Good job, Joe.
As stated above . . .
according to her a heterosexual relationship can be equated to a plastic cup and a turkey baster.
You stated
"My point is proven by your post. You stated that when Obama gets into office, for me to look around and see how many names I can pronounce.. "
This happened under Clinton before Bush. Can't pronounce half the names now. Guess I fell down on my research a bit as I didn't see anything about the "Muslim for Stowe, OH" appointed by Bush.
VERY well stated!! :-) thank you
this is just too awesome on SO many planes!!!
Very Very well Stated
Yes, the moral compasses do seem to change from day to day on here, you are right.
Thank you for this post. It is very well put.
Excuse me? JM has clearly stated his will be
nm
What would be a lie about verses stated
xx
I stated in my post that I had
posted that below. If you find it a waste of time, please feel free to ignore what I've said instead of being hateful.
Where is that stated, and what does nawnaw mean??
nm
Yes, that is what he stated, but it was not true....
hospitals were allowing babies to die. And that was his SECOND excuse when the first one about Roe v. wade didn't fly. Do you take EVERYthing he says at face value?
You mean 120,000, not 250,000 as stated on Fox news.nm
x
I do believe that to as I stated in my message
But we have been told over and over that we have been lying about Obama, and these are not the two issues that keep coming up. We ask what lies are we being accused of telling so we can provide credible sources but nobody comes back with anything. Most likely because what we expressed as our fears and the sources we provided were truths.
But they are "credible" as you stated above. sm
yeah, right.
More accurately stated, this is
the disaffected, sour grapes poor-me's, hand-wringing over-wrought imaginary concept of O's plan, courtesty of the eve-of-destruction clan who does not have the courage to depict it accurately or conduct an informed pros-and-cons discussion since they are trying to promote their recently out-voted world view.
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