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Next time, please try to stay on post task.

Posted By: Were you trying to address voting records? sm on 2008-09-05
In Reply to: voting records...yes, let's go there... - sam

1st paragraph. I agree. That's why O's and B's supporters are voting for them. Not more government. Better government...smarter government…and one with vision for a different America than what you cons are peddling. You are straying from the subject again. Pay attention. The discussion is about O and JM how JM's plan differs from Bush's plan. On the voting record, last time I checked only O and JM are running for president and those are the voting records we are inspecting now. It is the 90+% of MC'CAIN'S votes in support of Bush's initiatives that we now showcase. Do not complicate the plan comparisons with a whole bunch of smoke and mirrors peripheral unknowns. Candidates. Got it?

Have it your way. Bush adopted O's exit strategy first and JM followed his lead who followed O's lead. He did not start talking exit at all until the Bush flip-flop(s) (i.e., we dont negotiate with terrorists but a US interests section in Iran might work) began getting press during the primary campaigns. I have not had time to examine the context from which you lifted O's surge statement from the other O's Fox interview which you continually and confidently predicted he was too scared to do. Once I do that, I will comment further on the surge statement. Don't know how to tell you this, but the surge was not the greatest national security/foreign policy decision, although it is plain to see that the cons often get military strategies pretty mixed up with foreign policy. Again, ask the Iraqis how successful our missions have been at slaughtering more than 100,000 of their family members. Another bubble to burst here. There are many among us who do not feel that the war has made our nation safer from terrorists. So, in fact, we are not done with this subject, no matter how quickly you would like to dismiss it. Obama was simply trying to avoid MORE quagmire and advance the withdrawal plan that is not only promoted by him, but now suddently promoted by Bush and JM in tow. Some call it vision, others call it judgment.

Did not ask about JMs speeching. Asked about the plan. What is it, if he laid it out so plainly? Must have missed all that between the fear/military references last night. BTW, as I told you in the past post, govt transparency is a democratic initiative that was launched back in the early 90s during the Clinton administration, squashed during the undercover Bush administration and is now clearly articulated in O's technology section under issues.

Cons cannot speak for democrats as to how they can or cannot define pork barrel spending. I know very well what it is. I do find your example of moveon.org rather peculiar in this context. When was the last time they benefited from pork barrel legislation? Please do not reply with a regurgitation of Fox and O'Reilly campaign to demonize the group. You want to talk PACs, fine, but put them in the correct context and tread very lightly for your own sake.

The class warfare is waged by pubs against dem constituents, so yes, I am familiar with that subject and plan to continue to advocate and support measures that will level that playing field. I have a lot of company in that regard. TBone advocates drilling once or twice inside the context of a whole arsenal of other energy initiatives that you discount by omission. He does not, however, try to sell the public on the notion that this will bring prices down anytime in the first of second terms of the upcoming administrations like JM and company would have us believe. On the American imperialist delusions of grandeur, if you have to ask, no soup for you. Would be a waste of time, but this concept is not lost on the better versed in Bush/Cheney NeoCon visions which JM is trying to deny and embrace at the same time. Good luck with that one.



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No, let's don't. Let's stay on task.
0
Again. Could you PLEASE stay on task.
!
Sorry. Just trying to stay on task.
Thread started out about hate speech, then turned toward lawsuit. Silly me. Do you always change the subject when you start to look stupid? The only plants at the SP rallies spring up from the seeds of bigotry and racism that come spilling out of her mouth every time she opens it...in the form of a crop of hateful ignorance. Must make you feel right proud.
You as well need to stay on task...
Fact. He has said he is going to give a tax break to 95% of the American people. 40% of the American people don't even pay federal taxes. How can you give a tax break to people who don't even pay taxes? In the form of a check. How ELSE is he going to do that? THAT is classic redistribution of wealth Marxist style. Either he is lying about the 95%, or he is going to cut a lot of checks. YOU tell ME how he is going to do it.

As far as Palin...you really need to focus here. Yes, she did a windfall profits task. And yes, she distributed it to the Alaskan people. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, rich and poor alike, every single citizen of Alaska. That is NOT redistribution of wealth. See the difference? And it is not taking from the tax coffers that everyone in Alaska paid into...which is what Obama is going to do. He is going to tax small businesses and the so-called rich (the threshold for which gets smaller every day) and redistribute that to 95% of people...40% of whom don't even pay federal income tax.

Marxist re-distribution of wealth.

No soup for you either, but plenty of ice cream.
I think you're the one who needs to stay on task

you even asked it.  Go back up a few posts and you'll see where I said:


"I'd say the same about anyone who dies after they cast their vote but before the election.  It shouldn't count.  Where's the accountability?"


Anyone would refer to grandma, pap, brother, sis, aunt, uncle, etc. 


Geez, you people make it so easy for me to feel smart. 


Stay on task, sam. This thread is about refuting
Guess you can't reconcile facts staring you straight in the face with the fiction you couldn't wait to post. Again, if O voted against Katrina funds, there had to have been something REALLY stinky the proposal, and I for one prefer to wait and see exactly what it was before passing judgment.
Pubs can't stay on task if their lives depended on it.
Americans don't elect issues wimps.
You evidently have a hard time staying on task.
if your mother, father, daughter, son, grandmother, grandfather, husband or best friend cast a vote in the early election and passed away on November 4th, how would it make you feel if their votes were thrown out?
Wow - you really got me that time. (not really sure WTH your post means but anyway) (sm)
I'm leaving, so if you have more to say to me, you'll be talking to yourself, and you're already weird enough, but if that's what you wanna do, knock yourself out.
Thank you for taking the time to post this!! :-)
awesome post
Thanks for taking the time to post
Sorry, forgot to add that. Have a good afternoon.
I am on task.
You answered your own challenge here. Of course you cannot reduce taxes, give tax breaks (or whatever other ill-considered literal read you may choose) on people who do not pay them. That would lead any person with a triple-digit IQ to conclude that he is referring to people currently paying taxes....wouldn't it? Your main premise is faulty, as in flawed, caput, no dice, etc. Let's state the obvious again, in case you weren't paying attention. You can't cut something that is not there. We agree on that one.

However, we not agree on your assertion that Obama is lying. According to you, any movement of wealth out of the hands of those who earned it into the hands of those who didn't is redistribution of wealth. Perhaps those fat cat oil company CEOs and stockholders would not agree with your argument. The O windfall profit proposal is a one-time jump-start energy rebate aimed at economic stimulus for middle class families, who in case you haven't noticed lately, are having a helluva of time. It is not a permanent scheme where Americans become "collective owners" of the resource (decidedly more Marxist) as Palin's is...income sharing at its finest hour. There is a difference, all right, but not the one you are willing to concede.

Again, we see you dance around the issue of the long-established progressive tax structure question and just how is it socialist only when Obama reforms it? You cannot seem to answer that fundamental central issue, can you?

Just a hint. Next time respond to a post,

read it first. 


This isn't about the ACLU, or an agency LIKE the ACLU.


I think you would be hard pressed to find a liberal who agrees with NAMBLA or any organization like them that is in favor of sexual exploitation of children.  I don't think prison is even good enough for them.  I think they should get the death penalty.


Maybe if you would have actually taken the time to READ the post, you would see it has nothing to do with your response.


That's the second time you addressed something I didn't post. sm
I thought the Chickenhawk article was brilliant though.  I wish I had posted it.
Re: "Closing Time" - Was cut off in prior post; please see this one.

This didn't come through very well in my other post.  I'm hoping it's better in this one.  Sorry. 


Closing Time


Jim Kirwan
12-10-8








Since Reagan we've been trying to make "Trickle-Down economics" work: For those to whom promises were made, Trickle- Down has been, not just a failure but it has been the major vehicle responsible for the most massive redistribution of wealth, from the population that has worked toward something, to those that wanted everything. Never has there been such a near total transfer of wealth in the history of the planet. This criminal-conspiracy has done what it was created to do ­ and it must be terminated with extreme prejudice, immediately, if we are to survive.


When 'Trickle-Down' was the political-priority of the day, the high-point in prosperity was to become a 'Millionaire.' Forbes magazine tracked those lucky few very carefully. Today Forbes 500 no longer bothers with 'millionaires' because there are just far too many of them-they have become inconsequential. Thanks to "Trickle-Down economics today the heavy-hitters financially are 'Billionaires' and above: which is all you need to know about how well this hostile-takeover of the American economy has worked.


The problem that this transfer of wealth has created has resulted in the Federalization-of-Privatization: As a result we are all facing another huge round of trickle-down economics, but this time it's being cloaked in a series of stealth-protected measures. These new tactics are commonly called BAILOUT or RESCUE packages, and nothing about their origins or their purposes has been made clear to those of us that will be forced to pay tens of trillions for our own destruction.


What's happening is this: First they used compromised laws to squash diversity and opinion within the entire field of communications, under Clinton and Powell's kid that ran the FCC. Together, competition was eliminated and monstrous empires were created that absorbed their competition outright. Once this happened, the entire edifice for total information management was in-place, using household names to lie to the public every minute of every day, whether on television or in print-with very few exceptions. With that completed effort it was easy to move directly onto the openly fascist path to WAR on a variety of fronts, supported and applauded by the very organs that were supposed to question whatever government does, on behalf of the people, as part of their constitutionally protected-jobs as so-called journalists. With the constitution gone, and the only allegiance worthy of that name having become the private for-profit motives that greed and arrogance breeds; in the sewers of those ruined lives where these so-called leaders "live," the current outcome is all that we should have ever expected from these new-age barbarians. (1)


We're still in the Twilight Zone; where Obama is just another man waiting to start a job, except that he seemingly can't wait to begin so he formulates their plans and then rushes to the nearest podium to expound upon the glories of what these programs (or pogroms) are pointedly designed to do; for them and 'to' us. And the sheep wait patiently to board the trains that will take them to the slaughterhouse.


The larger picture has or course remained hidden from the general public. What continues to go unnoticed is the number of profligate cities and towns, not to mention states that will have to be bailed out by the feds. Once this begins to happen, 'the rights' of states will disappear completely along with any independence from the federal-government. Remember the formula upon which bailouts are based: The crucial money provided is conditioned upon a federal "ownership stake" in everything that needs the money, and when this is applied to the states then all they have left to trade with is their broken-economies and their people who shall both become the property of the federal government that is today a private-corporation that serves only the privately-owned central banks and by extension the multi-national corporations. This is about to happen now to several states, including California; the sixth largest economy in the world. (2)


'BTW the "corporation" mentioned above has been bankrupt since 1933, and the result of that bankruptcy is that the USA went into receivership to the privately-owned Federal Reserve. The Dictator was correct when he said: "The constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper," he was actually telling the truth. It was probably the only truthful statement he ever made in nearly eight years.


The owners have simply allowed us to believe we have a constitution. Every law, code and statute world wide is based on the Uniform Commercial Code and has been in place since 1950. Of course no one in a position of power ever bothered to mention this to us did they? One must understand the UCC to understand how and why so many have gotten away with so much: And now they are upping the ante, to take it all.'


This explains why every courtroom and every government building has flags hanging that really are not American flags even though they appear to be. Each of them has gold/yellow fringe around them. They give us smoke and mirrors that mask what they created, which allows them to continue to say 'we have a constitution and a democracy.' Of course America was created to be a constitutional republic, not a democracy. There is a huge difference between a democracy and a constitutional republic. The rights of the few and the many, can only be protected under a Republic, while under a democracy, the majority rules-absolutely.


There are however a few places that are still holding out against the one-world-order and the New Barbarians. Among these are Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, parts of Pakistan, possibly Iran and certainly Greece.


"Socialist leader George Papandreou called for early elections, saying the conservative government could no longer defend the public from rioters.


The government has a single-seat majority in the 300-member Parliament and opposition parties blame hands-off policing for encouraging the worst rioting the country has seen in decades.


'The government cannot handle this crisis and has lost the trust of the Greek people,' Papandreou said. 'The best thing it can do is resign and let the people find a solution ... we will protect the public.'" (3)


If America is to survive then we must stop this wholesale giveaway of everything that was once part of this society. The relationship between profits and earnings must be freed from the stranglehold that management has created in order to siphon off all the profits and wreck the companies they work for. In addition, the idea that government can function in any capacity as a major stakeholder in any form of private enterprise beggars the imagination far beyond any real possibility for saving anything; except the criminals and their enterprises that created this "crisis" in the first place. The 'economy' must be based on a bottom-up profit motive, based on the real wages of those that create the wealth for those at the top - and not upon the insanity that it is now! People must come first, and the corporations must be controlled at every level by the public!


There is no longer anything like responsibility anywhere in government or the private sector to anything except what can continue to be stolen, either by flawed and fraudulent bailouts, or through the strong-arm tactics that are currently acting "under- cover of law" and that are neither legal nor functional. Obama in this venue is neither a savior, nor a friend to the people that supposedly 'elected' him-he is just the instrument of the new global-government engine designed to finish the job and to close down this nation, once and for all! Americans need to watch what happens in Greece and follow their example, if there is to be an America to fight over in the future.


In the meanwhile, here is some of what's happened here already.


"With the focus on privatization, public-private partnerships, (dismantling local control); anyone with any common sense about them can see that; incrementally the power of the people is being given over to corporate control through various venues. Once upon a time we were subjects, then citizens, and now consumers. Everything is for sale. TV 'programming' is set up to entice "consumers" through the 3000 daily ads to buy, buy, buy! Utilities-waste- nursing homes, and even the people's water (once in local control) is open to the highest bidder or those with the most influence. In "public private partnerships or privatization" (despite the lofty high pitch sales rhetoric) means only one thing, a plundering of the people's money. Profits take precedence over any and all health or environmental concerns. It's pigs at the trough time, locally- state wise and nationally. This is not just happening in one or two isolated places but across the nation. Because we are narrowly focused (many times only one newspaper) parochially; we have little to no idea of the larger picture and what is being set in place.


As I read of various happenings across the nation; I am struck with the usage of terms and language being introduced into the public arena; with no explanation as to their meaning (if any). I asked a state politician a few years back what this terminology we're hearing lately of, "regional or regionalization" meant? He brushed the whole thing aside as inconsequential and told me that is was of no importance. Obviously, for me, that was an unsatisfactory answer. Most especially, since on the local level, I could see that it meant a great deal. It appeared to me, that ever so insidiously, local control was gradually being usurped by "regional" control of unelected officials. Consultants (strangers) were replacing local people in places of city government (at lucrative salaries). The sense of community (calling city hall etc.) was being replaced by various business entities, having little to no attachment to the heartbeat of the people. How could they, being strangers, with no sense of native pride or concern? Words like "regional, stake holder, empowerment zones, enterprise committees, visioning councils, smart growth, sustainable development etc;" had replaced understandable language! I didn't imagine that the usage of these terms across the nation (if you look) meant "nothing"." (4)


It's 'Closing Time' America, because unless you begin to do more than just watch, this place won't even be a footnote to the ruin that is planned for these people and this place that once held so much promise for everyone.


kirwanstudios@sbcglobal.net



I guess we better all rememer your post, the next time
Double standard? Sheesh.
Read the post I made above. This time it was...
Democrat greed or ignorance...I don't know which...but either way they are responsible.
Wow. In the time it took me to post, market lost another
with no end in sight, wiping out just about all those gains on Monday. Bush and clones are not exactly the best choice of spokesmen when trying to restore confidence in the economy. Change is in the air. Can you feel it?
time ojut, SS, My post was directed to Get Smart/sm
I agree with your comment about JM's goose egg and everything else you have posted today.
I had that happen one time too...a post turning up missing. sm
And all I did was say I felt other posters were being too harsh. That was it. So I emailed the moderators and the reply I got was that if somebody complains about a post, then all the replies associated with that post are also deleted along with the offending post.

I hope this helps shed light on your missing post.
Excellent post - best I've seen in a long time
Thanks for posting. I really wish more people would think like this. I just want someone qualified who will do what is best for the people of the country. It's just not happening and hasn't been for some time. Forget the name calling and who started it. All I know is it's broken and needs to be fixed and this is an excellent way to fix it.
Not interested in taking this off task.
nm
You seem to be having a little trouble staying on task.
Let's try this again. The subjct is guilt by association. The post you are answering listed Mc'Cain's associates as follows:

Just off the top of my head:
1. US Council for World Freedo. Can you say Iran contra? How about dong business with terrorists (the arms seller AND the arms customer)?
2. Phil Gramm, (co-chair of the McCain campaign), champion of Enron tax loopholes and author of Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act that effectively neutralized any existing regulation of financial services industry. You remember good ole Phil. He's the one talking on McCain's behalf when he said we were having a "mental recession" and we have a nation of a bunch of whiners.
3. Gordon Liddy. That's the guy who got a 20-year sentence for his conviction of conspiracy, burglary and illegal wiretapping in the Watergate fiasco. m
4. Let's don't forget the Keating 5.
5. Richard Quinn, publisher of Southern Heritage ragazine for neo-confederates…unapologetic bigotry and proud of it!
6. Rick Davis, McCain CEO, lobbyist, paid $15,000 each month for "consulting" from end of 2005 until September 2008.

Let me spell out the issue at hand. If we are to infer that Obama embodies the phuilisophies of each and every single person or organization that he has ever encountered dring the corse of his lifetime, then we can infer the same about McCain. Are you with me so far? an appropriate, direct and credible response would not include the word democrat in it. It would deal with the issue at hand and with the list of pub snakes McCain pals around with.
Does anybody else get error messages half the time they try to post on this board. ?
.
Why do pubs have so much trouble staying on task?
I like facts. Troopergate has lots of them. Try reading it. Then try answering the questions. Challenge yourself. Get though one single entire post, begining to end, without trashing Obama. Can you handle that? Probably not, but give it your best shot. By the way, there is only one person here who you need to educate....and it ain't me, babe.
Why do pubs have such difficulty staying on task?
Evidently smearing the dems is more important to you than equal pay for women. With this kind of tendency to self destruct, no wonder you folks lost so many elections.
Just today....and theboard is dominated by people piling on me every time I post.
What you don't like is anyone who disagrees with you. Sounds a whole lot more like Nazism than American democracy. But I don't suppose a socialist party would recognize that.
I agree with poster below. Don't even waste your time reading the post. - Sarcastic and utter no
Oh brother - get real.
Chavez Takes Bush to Task Over Iraq War
See link
Counting by hand of 100 million votes would be a task...sm
Not that it is an unworthy one, I just doubt it will be done.

One idea was that the computer gives the voter a reciept of their selection and then the reciept, once verified by the voter, is deposited into the machine.

Brainstorming, I suggest they take it one step further and have a real time tally for each candidate per voting center. That way the voters can verify that their vote was casted, counted, and affected the number. The last voters, along with the volunteers could verify the final numbers for the districts.
can stay.
nm
What happens if you stay
informed? That means what to you or me? It does you what good? It helps you out how? It makes a difference in how Washington is run? I think your statement sounds stup..
Don't look, better yet, stay on your own board.
x
stay on your board
They just cant stay on their own board cause it has no information other than liberal bashing and then they are patting each other on the back, LOL.  They should change the name of their board to **I drank Bush's Kool Aid** board.
Stay on your board please.
I put this site up for the liberals, yet you people just cannot stay off this board.  Hannity has a board where everyone will agree with you, why not go there?
So much for who can't stay away from our board.

Today on the conservative board, there were 10 new posts, and not ONE LIBERAL posted any of them.


Today on the liberal board, there were 20 new conservative posts.


20 to 0.


Obviously they find their own board boring since they posted twice as many posts here as they did on their own board.  But then we already knew that, didn't we?


no way, jose....needs to stay til it's over...

They have to stay objective. It's their job.
One of our family members is a well-known political analyst on t.v. At family functions, we all hear the full-on opinions. Believe me, reporters are human, and they certainly do have their opinions! But their job isn't to discuss their own point of view. It is amazing, though, isn't it? I don't think I could control myself if I had to interview some of these people!
Thanks, but I will stay without my legs
without my boots and with my copy of the Notebook. Don't let the door bump you in the butt.
Let's stay focused here.............sm
this is not about whether Obama has ever appointed a SC justice. This is about Obaman's PROVEN stance on the Born Alive Infant Protection Act. This is about the FACT that he squelched the bill in Illinois when he, as head of the Health and Human Services Committee, had every opportunity to push this bill through. This is about the FACT that he contradicted himself when he said he "would have voted for it" in Washington (had he been a Senator at the time). This is about the FACT that he is talking out of both sides of his face and lying to the American sheeple who he believes are too dumb and awestruck by his very presence to grow a brain and go out and look for this information on their own.

Obama cannot be trusted.
yes..but the revenue does not stay here. nm
still no message
Timid or not they'd do well to stay far away from me.

As if Arkansas doesn't have enough of the creatures already, they released a bunch of rattlesnakes and copperheads  in Devil's Den State Park a few years back and that's not too far for them to slither up this way.  Those varmits are most definitely not timid and I fear to go outside at night without a flashlight lest I encounter one of them..


Not really. She's no dummy and if she wants to stay
especially should she end up in a senior-level position, she will really not have a whole lot of wiggle room since all eyes will be turned on her because of all the concerns which are being voiced on this forum and in the media. She did not exactly "take charge" in the senate as a junior member and as SOS, she will be in a position to take her cues from many others besides her own DH.
You really can't stay on topic, can you?
It might help you focus a bit better.
Theories have to stay out of school?
I certainly agree religion needs to stay out of our schools except when clearly labeled for everyone to know, such as a comparative religion class or even the history of a particular religion. But no theories in school? Think about what you're saying. Or did you have a particular theory in mind, say the theory of evolution? Why is that such a hard one for some people? There's more scientific evidence to support evolution than there ever was to support the idea that this rabbi a couple thousand years ago was the physical son of God. And anyway, evolution doesn't disprove creation. You can believe there was an intelligent force behind it all and still believe that evolution was the way it was carried out. Seems like some people want to be able to name that intelligent force, and say what it wants and thinks and force those beliefs on others, though.
The NG should stay shared with the state and fed...sm
In time of emergency. What is wrong with communication? In time of emergency like Katrina, Bush and Blanco's office should have been on the phone at first levee break and making *quick* and *effective* decisions. They should have stayed in contact.

If you give the fed complete authority in times of emergency, an emergency can be interpeted a lot of different ways by different people. I keep saying, checks and balances, that's why you need state and fed collaboration.
I wish the government would stay out of my uterus
The posts below are getting crazy.  Abortion should be a private issue and a woman's right.  Using pro-life or pro-choice and a political platform infuriates me.
I hope you don't stay lost

for an unncessarily lengthy period of time.


 


So basically the poorer I stay
the more I get?

Talk about your backwards logic!


yeah, stay ignorant,
and watch just CNBC. OR, educate yourself and try Fox news for some balance and honesty. and calling people hicks? Nope, i'm country at heart (and geographically now), but i'm born and raised a city girl; still not falling for the Obama routine.
Exactly. And the government can stay out of my pocketbook....
while they are at it. Don't tax me to fund abortion and don't tax me to redistribute my wealth.