Not bashing, not going to challenge, just have question...
Posted By: Observer on 2007-10-13
In Reply to: I actually really like Ron Paul... - kam
you say Obama talks about the things that mean the most to your family...what are those things? You say he has what it takes to bring the country together...can you be more specific? What is it that he has that makes you believe he can bring the country together? Thanks.
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Obama bashing versus Palin bashing... sm
Obama will be in the forefront for the next 4 years, assuming the electoral college pans out the way the popular vote did and providing his BC holds up in court.
Palin, on the other hand, has gone back to the frozen tundra. Whether she resurfaces in 2012 remains to be seen, but can't we just wait until then to start in on her?
Was bashing her, was bashing his choice of
her. I said she was not the MOST qualified. Did not say she wasn't qualified. I said he picked because she would help with the base. That's actually a compliment.
Rather than attacking, try to understand the content.
we could challenge them
Since we have history on our side and the #s to accompany it, we could make a friendly bet with these utopians as to how the tax rate will change, etc. It'll all play out (perish that thought)!
Did you hear Rush today on his show or when he was on with Greta? He pointed out some very valid things about O and his desire to hold up the war in Iraq until Jan. What he's proposing is unconstitutional. He wrote an op-ed in the WSJ (Friday), which is no doubt on his w/s. I got the link for it when I got my "Rush In A Hurry" for the day, which gets sent out after his show and before his site gets completely updated to reflect the contents of his show.
BTW, I purposely put Rush into this mix. He just makes the libs crazy! All I can say to them is "temper, temper!"
I would like to challenge you
Tell me which one of my posts below comments on Obama's race, and that I'm not voting for him because he's black. Where have I called him a black man or made any reference to his race? Prove it to me and I'll admit I was wrong. Yes, I have said he plays the race card because he does play it. That is not a racist remark, that is just a fact. I've said insistently over and over I don't care what color he is. I never compared him to Adolf Hitler. I posted articles of people who have, but I have never compared him to Hitler and I challenge you again to show me the post where I said he was like Adolf Hitler.
How can you be a racist against a black if you are black???? I don't need to explain my ethnicity to you. Are you assuming because I don't write like a black person I am white. That right there is racist to me. Know someone else who doesn't talk like a black person? Michelle Obama. And tell me are all the other blacks who aren't voting for Obama racists because they aren't voting for him. There are plenty out there.
I don't "hate" McCain. I just am not happy we didn't get a different republican in there to run. And I don't "hate" Obama. I just think he is not qualified and is the worst possible candidate on the democrats side. If the right qualified person was running on the democratic side I'd vote for them (I voted for B. Clinton the first time), and if the right republican person had won I'd consider voting for them. But I don't like either and I'm not voting.
I've said before and I'll say it again. I think Obama is okay, he's a good looking man, dresses nicely, has a beautiful wife and 2 cute daughters, but then again I don't vote for someone because of the way they look or dress or their fancy talk, I vote for them because of their policies and experience.
So please, be my guest and tell me which one of my posts did I make any remark about Obama being black. If I said something derogatory against him because of his race I'll eat my words. I highly doubt it though (as my mama says "I'll slap the snot out of you")
And as for Casper the Friendly Ghost. No I wouldn't vote for him but am sure he has been registered as a democrat.
I believe the challenge was to ask someone....(sm)
who lives in a place with universal health care what they think of it. Michael Moore did this. What republican has ever done this? Wonder why.....
I believe the challenge was for you to ask someone...
I am a republican and I have. The answer was not favorable. Of course, I'm no Michael Moore (thank God). For people who demand that references used are not conservative, I sure see a lot of liberal citations.
I responded to the challenge in the OP.
I have responded to this by adding comments to each item. Don't need to check my facts. I already researched my points the first time around. I put them out there the way I see it. Items 1 through 8 occurred prior to 1995 under a democratic majority Congress. Number 9 was a cooperative international initiative that played out in UN International Tribunal and did not involve direct participation by the US congress. A lengthy explanation by way of disclaimer appears in #10. Numbers 11 and 13 have no comment as I am certain the republicans would like to take all the credit for those. Bill Clinton went against his own party's best efforts to oppose numbers 11 and 13 and did employ line vetoes to them or otherwise obstruct these laws. He signed them into law. That's all I was trying to say, in response to the challenge from the original poster
1. Family and Medical Leave Act.
2. Established web-based information and communication systems in the White House, federal agencies, US Courts and military.
3. Brady Bill requiring background checks on handgun purchase.
4. Expansion of earned income credit.
5. Balanced the budget.
6. Cut taxes for low-income families.
7. Cut taxes for small business.
8. Restricted government spending.
9. In cooperation with NATO, Slobodan Milosevic convicted for crimes against humanity for ethnic cleansing in the former Yugoslavian Republic.
10. Communications Decency Act to regulate pornography on the Internet.
11. Welfare reform.
12. Increased minimum wage.
Defense of Marriage Act (right-wingers ought to love that one).
13. Maintained high approval ratings throughout his presidency, leaving office with record-breaking 73% approval ratings IN SPITE OF unsuccessful impeachment proceedings.
14. Booming economy.
15. Creation of $559 billion budget surplus.
So what exactly are you trying to say…that Bill Clinton had absolutely nothing to do with any legislative initiatives that transpired after the so-called Republican revolution in 1995? Looks like trying to hog the spotlight to me.
Why is it such a challenge for conservatives to
and take personal responsibility for their actions and their consequences? This has nothing to do with libs. It has everything to do with the connections between racial, bigoted hate speech, violence, crime and cold-blooded murder.
Reply to pub challenge to show O's
This is posted in response to pub spin that would assert SP is better qualified to lead the country because of O's lack of experience. Of special note are the numerous foreign relations committee diplomatic initiatives listed below. Of course, I would be interested in any comparable experience SP may have that the pubs can produce. I have saved this post and will be using it in reply to any similar assertions made by pubs in the future whenever I encounter them. Hope format is not too seedy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_Senate_career_of_Barack_Obama
In Illinois senate O Worked to get BIPARTISAN support on legislation on:
1. Ethics reform.
2. Health care reform.
3. Sponsored bills for earned income tax credits for low-income workers.
4. Provisions for $100 million in tax cuts to families.
5. Provisions for early childhood education.
6. Welfare reform.
7. Childcare subsidies.
8. Funding for churches and community groups.
9. Chairman of the Health and Human Services Committee.
10. Instituted requirement for transparent videotaped police interrogations of suspects in capitol cases after a number of death row inmates were found innocent.
11. Measures against racial profiling.
12. Campaign finance reform.
13. Restrictions on lobbyists activities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_career_of_Barack_Obama
In US Senate:
1. Senate Committee (SC) on Foreign Relations.
2. SC on Health.
3. SC on Health.
4. SC on Labor and Pensions.
5. SC on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs.
6. SC on Veterans' Affairs.
7. Member of Congressional Black Caucus.
8. Chairman of the Subcommitte on European Affairs.
9. Border security and Immigration reform. Cosponsor "Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act introduced by JM.
10. Added 3 amendments to the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act.
11. Supported Secure Fence Act for security improvements along US-Mexico border.
12. Cosponsored Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act of 2006.
13. Introduced expansions to Cooperative Threat Reduction Program to secure and dismantle weapons of mass destruction and their associated infrastructure in former Soviet Union states.
14. Sponsor of Democratic Republic of Congo Relief, Security and Democracy Promotion Act, signed by Bush, to restore basic services like clinics and schools, train a professional, integrated and accountable police force and military, and otherwise support the Congolese in protecting their human rights and rebuilding their nation.
15. As member of Foreign Relations Committee, he made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East and Africa. His 2005 trip to Russia, Ukraine and Azerbaijan focus on strategy planning for the control of world's supply of conventional weapons, biological weapons and WMDs and defense against potential terrorist attacks.
16. January 2006, met with US military in Kuwait and Iraq. Visited Jordan, Israel and Palestinian territories. Asserted preconditions that US will never recognize legitimacy of Hamas leadership until they renounce elimination of Israel.
17. August 2006, official trip to South Africa, Kenya, Djibouti, Ethiopia and Chad where he made televised appearance addressing ethnic rivalries and corruption in Kenya.
18. Worked on Honest Leadership and Open Government Act, signed into law, to eliminate gifts of travel on corporate jets by lobbyists to members of Congress and require disclosure of bundled campaign contributions.
19. Cosponsored bill to criminalize deceptive practices in federal elections to include fraudulent flyers and automated phone calls.
20. Cosponsored climate change bill to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by two-thirds by 2050.
21. Promoted liquefied coal production of gas and diesel.
22. Introduced Iraq War De-Escalation Act of 2007 to cap troop levels as prelude to phased troop withdrawal and removal of all combat brigades.
23. Cosponsored amendment to Defense Authorization Act safeguarding personality disorder military discharges.
24. Sponsored Iran Sanctions Enabling Act in support of divestment of state pensions funds from Iran's oil and gas industry.
25. Introduced legislation to reduce risks of nuclear terrorism., provisions of which were added as amendments to the State-Foreign Operations appropriations bill.
26. Sponsored a Senate amendment to the State Children's Health Insurance program providing one-year job protection for family members caring for soldiers with combat-related injuries, which passed both houses of Congress with bipartisan support but was ultimately vetoed by fearless George.
Obama has been told this challenge will not
--
I challenge you to find any reference in any of
my posts referring to Barack Obama as a messiah. Just one more example of the vicious twisting of words done by your ilk to suit your own agenda.
Lamont Says He'll Challenge Lieberman..sm
March 13, 2006
Saying voters deserve a choice and reiterating his opposition to the Iraq war, Ned Lamont (D) formally said today that he will challenge Sen. Joe Lieberman (D-CT) for the Democratic nomination this year, the AP reports. Lamont will be Lieberman's first opponent from within the party during his three terms in the Senate. Lamont hopes to garner support from Connecticut Democrats dissatisfied with Lieberman's pro-war stance and his perceived closeness with President Bush's administration.
No, I challenge you to show me mean, narrow minded,
shallow, pure hatred from the reps to the dems on this board.
I think you libbies have it won down pat. Same on other boards, not just this one.
And for that matter, show me anywhere, that same degree of "hatred" toward Obama, that is now being shown to Gov. Palin.
I don't mean mere dislike, or spoof of his lack of anything, either. I mean the hatred.
Republicans don't act that way. But if they have, please give me an example, please.
Chicago Annenberg Challenge Shutdown...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/23/AR2008102302081.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
This is NOT true - I challenge you to prove it- see message
You show me one post by republicans that are "despicable racial slurs". Are you that same person that acused me of being a racist and told me I posted racist things and when I challenged you to show me one post that I made that was racist, you just kept screaming at me I was a racist then when I pointed out I was black you stopped? So I will challenge you again. You show us. Everytime a conservative, independent, or republican posts an article they want to share that does not favor Obama they are immediately bashed and called names (I should know!). I've seen too many of it. There have even been posts by democrats trying to stir the pot and calling us rabid and just posting negative posts against republican, conservative and independent posters for absolutely no reason. If your going to say we post despicable racial slurs I hope your going to back it up and prove it.
Duo take Obama birth challenge to Court
Wow, I believe we have some sore losers!
From NBC’s Pete Williams
When the justices of the U.S. Supreme Court meet on Dec. 5th, in their regular private conference to decide which cases to hear, two lawsuits that have captivated a segment of the blogosphere will be up for discussion.
Both urge the court to consider claims that President-elect Obama is not qualified to be president, because he is not a natural-born American citizen.
Persistent concerns about the qualifications of both major party candidates rank among the oddest aspects of 2008's historic campaign.
Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution provides that "No person except a natural born citizen" is eligible to be president. John McCain's status was questioned because he was born in the Panama Canal Zone and various theories have been advanced to cast doubt on Obama's.
Lawsuits over the inclusion of their names on state general-election ballots popped up around the country and were quickly dispensed with by local courts. But two challengers have pursued their cases to the Supreme Court.
Pennsylvania lawyer Philip Berg claims that the circumstances of Obama's birth are vague and that he may have been born in Kenya. Obama's mother, Berg asserts, later flew to Hawaii to register the birth.
Leo Donofrio, a New Jersey lawyer, contends that election officials in his state failed to ensure that only legally qualified candidates were placed on the ballot. Obama may have been born in the United States, Donofrio argues, but "natural born" status depends on both parents being American citizens. Obama's father was Kenyan.
The justices are unlikely to take up these cases for a host of reasons, not the least of which is the invitation to overturn the results of an election in which more than 66 million Americans voted for Obama. An equally high hurdle is the issue of whether Berg or Donofrio have the legal right to sue claiming a violation of the Constitution.
In dismissing Berg's complaint, a federal judge in Pennsylvania found that he failed to meet the basic test required for sustaining a lawsuit, because he couldn't show how the inclusion of Obama's name on the ballot would cause him -- apart from others -- some particular harm. Berg's stake, the judge said, "is no greater and his status no more differentiated than that of millions of other voters."
Other courts presented with similar challenges have reached the same conclusion, ruling that there is no general legal right to sue over the Constitution's eligibility requirements. Federal courts typically reject claims of legal standing based simply on a litigant's status as a voter or taxpayer.
The Obama campaign had hoped to end the controversy last spring by releasing his actual Hawaii birth certificate. But that prompted further questions about its authenticity, which were compounded when state authorities in Hawaii said they could not vouch for it, because they were constrained by the privacy laws.
Then, on Oct. 31st, the director of Hawaii's Department of Health issued a statement, proclaiming that he had personally seen and verified that the state has "Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record," which shows that he was born there.
The most daunting challenge this country has ever faced? LOL!!!
Wow. You apparently know nothing about US History, do you?
But thanks for the laugh, Chicken Little.
Obama's just another dude in the chair, no matter how much 'celebrity' status you want to endow him with. He'll face challenges like all the other presidents. He'll succeed at some things and fail miserably at others, like all other presidents.
Why is everyone so quick to knight this guy, who hasn't done anything yet but flash his pearly whites at the camera and pump out a bunch of campaign promises?
Here's an idea. Let's let the dude take office before we award him the title of saviour of the planet?
He may be great. He may stink. But you simply can't tell yet. The countdown on this forum just shows how desperate people are to believe their problems are not their fault.
Somewhere in the past century, America went from being the Land of Opportunity to being the Land of the Big Handout. And now Brother Obama is gonna save us from ourselves. Is that right?
Time will tell, Chicken Little.
Time will tell.
Nobody's bashing you
Just because someone questions you it does not a bash make.
Who was bashing? sm
Someone pointed out, actually THREE someones, that a link was not working and you freaked out. Now, who is overreacting here? I tried to point out, nicely I might add, that the link was not working and you started with the only liberals could see it conversation. At least have the good graces to admit that this whole thing is blown way out of proportion. The link does not work. It just doesn't. If it works for you, I am surprised as all get out, because it just does not work for me. Settle down. Take a chill pill. No one is bashing you for Pete's sake.
What is bashing?
Thank you for your post, however, I do not need you to clarify what is a bashing post and what is not. Calling someone ignorant is not needed, debating is. I have participated in many debates both in college and within the internet and honestly debating can be done without disparaging another. Calling someone ignorant is a bash. However, you see the world one way, others see it another. Is not that reason enough to keep all posts and debates as kind as can be?
no bashing here, you are so right!
McCain is the man to lead right now. Palin is a great woman too. Obama is a good guy in many respects, but not to lead this country. He does NOT have the judgment, the depth of character or the right morality IMO. He is really a politician at heart, and its not a 'new kind of politics'... i think the senate is the best place for him.
Not bashing at all....I just wonder, though....sm
how many of you Obama supporters will even bother to admit if and when Obama does not live up to your expectations.
I noticed how no one on this board today, could even be bothered about the one issue I raised in my post, of Obama's lack of discretion, and outright disdain for our current president, by leaking their private conversation, and then lying about it. And then coming out and admitting he lied about it (or rather, his campaign supposedly said all these things and leaked them, etc...but he was the one in the oval office, not his campaign, and thus it came from him....).
Not a word from you on that subject.
No bashing here, BWT........ sm
I agree with you on all points. But the point I was making is now is the time to buy cheap and hope for an increase on your money in the future....and it will be WAY in the future.
We're all in the same boat sinking at the same time, and you're right, there is nothing Obama can do about it. Greed has gotten us to where we are, and not just the greed of the filthy rich either. I think we have about run our course here in America and the next years are going to be hard ones. I'll share my refrigerator box with ya!
Bush aides challenge Biden's boasts of Bush slapdowns.
Aides to former President George W. Bush are challenging the veracity of Vice President Joe Biden's claim this week of having privately castigated Bush, who does not remember the incident or an earlier episode in which Biden claims to have similarly rebuked Bush.
Biden spokesman Jay Carney declined to specify the dates of his boss's purported Oval Office scoldings of Bush. Nor would he provide witnesses or notes to corroborate the episodes.
"The vice president stands by his remarks," Carney told FOX News without elaboration.
Those remarks include a shot that Biden took at Bush on Tuesday.
"I remember President Bush saying to me one time in the Oval Office," Biden told CNN, "'Well, Joe,' he said, 'I'm a leader.' And I said: 'Mr. President, turn and around look behind you. No one is following.'"
That exchange never took place, according to numerous Bush aides who also dispute a similar assertion by Biden in 2004, when the former senator from Delaware told scores of Democratic colleagues that he had challenged Bush's moral certitude about the Iraq war during a private meeting in the Oval Office. Two years later, Biden repeated his story about dressing down the president.
"When I speak to the president - and I have had plenty of opportunity to be with the president, at least prior to the last election, a lot of hours alone with him. I mean, meaning me and his staff," Biden said on HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher" in April 2006. "And the president will say things to me, and I'll literally turn to the president, say: 'Mr. President, how can you say that, knowing you don't know the facts?' And he'll look at me and he'll say - my word - he'll look at me and he'll say: 'My instincts.' He said: 'I have good instincts.' I said: 'Mr. President, your instincts aren't good enough.'"
Bush aides now dispute the veracity of both assertions by Biden.
"I never recall Biden saying any of that," former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said after reviewing detailed notes of Bush's White House meetings with Biden, which include numerous direct quotes from Biden. "I find it odd that he said he met with him alone all the time. I don't think that's true."
Fleischer said that whenever Bush met with Sen. Biden, the meeting also included a congressional counterpart so as to not "antagonize" the House.
Karl Rove, former White House political adviser, also was skeptical of Biden's claim to have spent "a lot of hours alone" with Bush.
"I remember checking on such a Biden exaggeration while at the White House and no one witnessed the meeting and his comments in remotely the same way," Rove said.
Candida P. Wolff, Bush's White House liaison to Capitol Hill, said the only meetings she remembered between Bush and Biden also included other lawmakers. She said such meetings were held in the Cabinet Room or the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, not the Oval Office, and certainly did not last for "hours."
"The president would never sit through two hours of Joe Biden," Wolff said. "I don't ever remember Biden being in the Oval. He was such a blowhard on all that stuff - there wasn't a reason to bring him in."
Andy Card, former White House chief of staff, reviewed the two Biden claims and said: "This does not ring true to me. I doubt that it happened."
A spokesman for Bush declined comment, although a person close to the former president said Bush does not remember either episode.
This is not the first time the veracity of Biden's assertions has been challenged. In 1988, he dropped out of the presidential race after being accused of plagiarizing British Labor Party leader Neil Kinnock. The Washington Post also cited "the senator's boastful exaggerations of his academic record."
Last year, liberal Slate magazine recalled that "Biden's misdeeds encompassed numerous self-aggrandizing thefts, misstatements, and exaggerations that seemed to point to a serious character defect."
Also last year, Biden came under fire for telling a questionable story about being "shot at" in Iraq.
"Let's start telling the truth," Biden said during a presidential primary debate sponsored by YouTube in July. "Number one, you take all the troops out -- you better have helicopters ready to take those 3,000 civilians inside the Green Zone, where I have been seven times and shot at. You better make sure you have protection for them, or let them die."
But when questioned about the episode afterward by the Hill newspaper, Biden backpedaled from his claim of being "shot at" and instead allowed: "I was near where a shot landed."
Biden went on to say that some sort of projectile "landed" outside a building in the Green Zone where he and another senator had spent the night during a visit in December 2005. The lawmakers were shaving in the morning when they felt the building shake, Biden said.
"No one got up and ran from the room-it wasn't that kind of thing," he told the Hill. "It's not like I had someone holding a gun to my head."
Seven weeks after claiming to have been "shot at" in Iraq, Biden again raised eyebrows with another story about his exploits in war zones -- this time on "the superhighway of terror between Pakistan and Afghanistan, where my helicopter was forced down."
"If you want to know where AL Qaeda lives, you want to know where bin Laden is, come back to Afghanistan with me," Biden bragged to the National Guard Association. "Come back to the area where my helicopter was forced down, with a three-star general and three senators at 10,500 feet in the middle of those mountains. I can tell you where they are."
But it turns out that inclement weather, not terrorists, prompted the chopper to land in an open field during Biden's visit to Afghanistan in February 2008. Fighter jets kept watch overhead while a convoy of security vehicles was dispatched to retrieve Biden and fellow Sens. Chuck Hagel and John Kerry.
"We were going to send Biden out to fight the Taliban with snowballs, but we didn't have to," joked Kerry, a Democrat, to the AP. "Other than getting a little cold, it was fine."
Bush aides challenge Biden's boasts of Bush slapdowns.
Aides to former President George W. Bush are challenging the veracity of Vice President Joe Biden's claim this week of having privately castigated Bush, who does not remember the incident or an earlier episode in which Biden claims to have similarly rebuked Bush.
Biden spokesman Jay Carney declined to specify the dates of his boss's purported Oval Office scoldings of Bush. Nor would he provide witnesses or notes to corroborate the episodes.
"The vice president stands by his remarks," Carney told FOX News without elaboration.
Those remarks include a shot that Biden took at Bush on Tuesday.
"I remember President Bush saying to me one time in the Oval Office," Biden told CNN, "'Well, Joe,' he said, 'I'm a leader.' And I said: 'Mr. President, turn and around look behind you. No one is following.'"
That exchange never took place, according to numerous Bush aides who also dispute a similar assertion by Biden in 2004, when the former senator from Delaware told scores of Democratic colleagues that he had challenged Bush's moral certitude about the Iraq war during a private meeting in the Oval Office. Two years later, Biden repeated his story about dressing down the president.
"When I speak to the president - and I have had plenty of opportunity to be with the president, at least prior to the last election, a lot of hours alone with him. I mean, meaning me and his staff," Biden said on HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher" in April 2006. "And the president will say things to me, and I'll literally turn to the president, say: 'Mr. President, how can you say that, knowing you don't know the facts?' And he'll look at me and he'll say - my word - he'll look at me and he'll say: 'My instincts.' He said: 'I have good instincts.' I said: 'Mr. President, your instincts aren't good enough.'"
Bush aides now dispute the veracity of both assertions by Biden.
"I never recall Biden saying any of that," former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said after reviewing detailed notes of Bush's White House meetings with Biden, which include numerous direct quotes from Biden. "I find it odd that he said he met with him alone all the time. I don't think that's true."
Fleischer said that whenever Bush met with Sen. Biden, the meeting also included a congressional counterpart so as to not "antagonize" the House.
Karl Rove, former White House political adviser, also was skeptical of Biden's claim to have spent "a lot of hours alone" with Bush.
"I remember checking on such a Biden exaggeration while at the White House and no one witnessed the meeting and his comments in remotely the same way," Rove said.
Candida P. Wolff, Bush's White House liaison to Capitol Hill, said the only meetings she remembered between Bush and Biden also included other lawmakers. She said such meetings were held in the Cabinet Room or the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, not the Oval Office, and certainly did not last for "hours."
"The president would never sit through two hours of Joe Biden," Wolff said. "I don't ever remember Biden being in the Oval. He was such a blowhard on all that stuff - there wasn't a reason to bring him in."
Andy Card, former White House chief of staff, reviewed the two Biden claims and said: "This does not ring true to me. I doubt that it happened."
A spokesman for Bush declined comment, although a person close to the former president said Bush does not remember either episode.
This is not the first time the veracity of Biden's assertions has been challenged. In 1988, he dropped out of the presidential race after being accused of plagiarizing British Labor Party leader Neil Kinnock. The Washington Post also cited "the senator's boastful exaggerations of his academic record."
Last year, liberal Slate magazine recalled that "Biden's misdeeds encompassed numerous self-aggrandizing thefts, misstatements, and exaggerations that seemed to point to a serious character defect."
Also last year, Biden came under fire for telling a questionable story about being "shot at" in Iraq.
"Let's start telling the truth," Biden said during a presidential primary debate sponsored by YouTube in July. "Number one, you take all the troops out -- you better have helicopters ready to take those 3,000 civilians inside the Green Zone, where I have been seven times and shot at. You better make sure you have protection for them, or let them die."
But when questioned about the episode afterward by the Hill newspaper, Biden backpedaled from his claim of being "shot at" and instead allowed: "I was near where a shot landed."
Biden went on to say that some sort of projectile "landed" outside a building in the Green Zone where he and another senator had spent the night during a visit in December 2005. The lawmakers were shaving in the morning when they felt the building shake, Biden said.
"No one got up and ran from the room-it wasn't that kind of thing," he told the Hill. "It's not like I had someone holding a gun to my head."
Seven weeks after claiming to have been "shot at" in Iraq, Biden again raised eyebrows with another story about his exploits in war zones -- this time on "the superhighway of terror between Pakistan and Afghanistan, where my helicopter was forced down."
"If you want to know where AL Qaeda lives, you want to know where bin Laden is, come back to Afghanistan with me," Biden bragged to the National Guard Association. "Come back to the area where my helicopter was forced down, with a three-star general and three senators at 10,500 feet in the middle of those mountains. I can tell you where they are."
But it turns out that inclement weather, not terrorists, prompted the chopper to land in an open field during Biden's visit to Afghanistan in February 2008. Fighter jets kept watch overhead while a convoy of security vehicles was dispatched to retrieve Biden and fellow Sens. Chuck Hagel and John Kerry.
"We were going to send Biden out to fight the Taliban with snowballs, but we didn't have to," joked Kerry, a Democrat, to the AP. "Other than getting a little cold, it was fine."
Bush aides challenge Biden's boasts of Bush slapdowns.
Aides to former President George W. Bush are challenging the veracity of Vice President Joe Biden's claim this week of having privately castigated Bush, who does not remember the incident or an earlier episode in which Biden claims to have similarly rebuked Bush.
Biden spokesman Jay Carney declined to specify the dates of his boss's purported Oval Office scoldings of Bush. Nor would he provide witnesses or notes to corroborate the episodes.
"The vice president stands by his remarks," Carney told FOX News without elaboration.
Those remarks include a shot that Biden took at Bush on Tuesday.
"I remember President Bush saying to me one time in the Oval Office," Biden told CNN, "'Well, Joe,' he said, 'I'm a leader.' And I said: 'Mr. President, turn and around look behind you. No one is following.'"
That exchange never took place, according to numerous Bush aides who also dispute a similar assertion by Biden in 2004, when the former senator from Delaware told scores of Democratic colleagues that he had challenged Bush's moral certitude about the Iraq war during a private meeting in the Oval Office. Two years later, Biden repeated his story about dressing down the president.
"When I speak to the president - and I have had plenty of opportunity to be with the president, at least prior to the last election, a lot of hours alone with him. I mean, meaning me and his staff," Biden said on HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher" in April 2006. "And the president will say things to me, and I'll literally turn to the president, say: 'Mr. President, how can you say that, knowing you don't know the facts?' And he'll look at me and he'll say - my word - he'll look at me and he'll say: 'My instincts.' He said: 'I have good instincts.' I said: 'Mr. President, your instincts aren't good enough.'"
Bush aides now dispute the veracity of both assertions by Biden.
"I never recall Biden saying any of that," former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said after reviewing detailed notes of Bush's White House meetings with Biden, which include numerous direct quotes from Biden. "I find it odd that he said he met with him alone all the time. I don't think that's true."
Fleischer said that whenever Bush met with Sen. Biden, the meeting also included a congressional counterpart so as to not "antagonize" the House.
Karl Rove, former White House political adviser, also was skeptical of Biden's claim to have spent "a lot of hours alone" with Bush.
"I remember checking on such a Biden exaggeration while at the White House and no one witnessed the meeting and his comments in remotely the same way," Rove said.
Candida P. Wolff, Bush's White House liaison to Capitol Hill, said the only meetings she remembered between Bush and Biden also included other lawmakers. She said such meetings were held in the Cabinet Room or the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, not the Oval Office, and certainly did not last for "hours."
"The president would never sit through two hours of Joe Biden," Wolff said. "I don't ever remember Biden being in the Oval. He was such a blowhard on all that stuff - there wasn't a reason to bring him in."
Andy Card, former White House chief of staff, reviewed the two Biden claims and said: "This does not ring true to me. I doubt that it happened."
A spokesman for Bush declined comment, although a person close to the former president said Bush does not remember either episode.
This is not the first time the veracity of Biden's assertions has been challenged. In 1988, he dropped out of the presidential race after being accused of plagiarizing British Labor Party leader Neil Kinnock. The Washington Post also cited "the senator's boastful exaggerations of his academic record."
Last year, liberal Slate magazine recalled that "Biden's misdeeds encompassed numerous self-aggrandizing thefts, misstatements, and exaggerations that seemed to point to a serious character defect."
Also last year, Biden came under fire for telling a questionable story about being "shot at" in Iraq.
"Let's start telling the truth," Biden said during a presidential primary debate sponsored by YouTube in July. "Number one, you take all the troops out -- you better have helicopters ready to take those 3,000 civilians inside the Green Zone, where I have been seven times and shot at. You better make sure you have protection for them, or let them die."
But when questioned about the episode afterward by the Hill newspaper, Biden backpedaled from his claim of being "shot at" and instead allowed: "I was near where a shot landed."
Biden went on to say that some sort of projectile "landed" outside a building in the Green Zone where he and another senator had spent the night during a visit in December 2005. The lawmakers were shaving in the morning when they felt the building shake, Biden said.
"No one got up and ran from the room-it wasn't that kind of thing," he told the Hill. "It's not like I had someone holding a gun to my head."
Seven weeks after claiming to have been "shot at" in Iraq, Biden again raised eyebrows with another story about his exploits in war zones -- this time on "the superhighway of terror between Pakistan and Afghanistan, where my helicopter was forced down."
"If you want to know where AL Qaeda lives, you want to know where bin Laden is, come back to Afghanistan with me," Biden bragged to the National Guard Association. "Come back to the area where my helicopter was forced down, with a three-star general and three senators at 10,500 feet in the middle of those mountains. I can tell you where they are."
But it turns out that inclement weather, not terrorists, prompted the chopper to land in an open field during Biden's visit to Afghanistan in February 2008. Fighter jets kept watch overhead while a convoy of security vehicles was dispatched to retrieve Biden and fellow Sens. Chuck Hagel and John Kerry.
"We were going to send Biden out to fight the Taliban with snowballs, but we didn't have to," joked Kerry, a Democrat, to the AP. "Other than getting a little cold, it was fine."
Bush aides challenge Biden's boasts of Bush slapdowns.
Aides to former President George W. Bush are challenging the veracity of Vice President Joe Biden's claim this week of having privately castigated Bush, who does not remember the incident or an earlier episode in which Biden claims to have similarly rebuked Bush.
Biden spokesman Jay Carney declined to specify the dates of his boss's purported Oval Office scoldings of Bush. Nor would he provide witnesses or notes to corroborate the episodes.
"The vice president stands by his remarks," Carney told FOX News without elaboration.
Those remarks include a shot that Biden took at Bush on Tuesday.
"I remember President Bush saying to me one time in the Oval Office," Biden told CNN, "'Well, Joe,' he said, 'I'm a leader.' And I said: 'Mr. President, turn and around look behind you. No one is following.'"
That exchange never took place, according to numerous Bush aides who also dispute a similar assertion by Biden in 2004, when the former senator from Delaware told scores of Democratic colleagues that he had challenged Bush's moral certitude about the Iraq war during a private meeting in the Oval Office. Two years later, Biden repeated his story about dressing down the president.
"When I speak to the president - and I have had plenty of opportunity to be with the president, at least prior to the last election, a lot of hours alone with him. I mean, meaning me and his staff," Biden said on HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher" in April 2006. "And the president will say things to me, and I'll literally turn to the president, say: 'Mr. President, how can you say that, knowing you don't know the facts?' And he'll look at me and he'll say - my word - he'll look at me and he'll say: 'My instincts.' He said: 'I have good instincts.' I said: 'Mr. President, your instincts aren't good enough.'"
Bush aides now dispute the veracity of both assertions by Biden.
"I never recall Biden saying any of that," former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said after reviewing detailed notes of Bush's White House meetings with Biden, which include numerous direct quotes from Biden. "I find it odd that he said he met with him alone all the time. I don't think that's true."
Fleischer said that whenever Bush met with Sen. Biden, the meeting also included a congressional counterpart so as to not "antagonize" the House.
Karl Rove, former White House political adviser, also was skeptical of Biden's claim to have spent "a lot of hours alone" with Bush.
"I remember checking on such a Biden exaggeration while at the White House and no one witnessed the meeting and his comments in remotely the same way," Rove said.
Candida P. Wolff, Bush's White House liaison to Capitol Hill, said the only meetings she remembered between Bush and Biden also included other lawmakers. She said such meetings were held in the Cabinet Room or the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, not the Oval Office, and certainly did not last for "hours."
"The president would never sit through two hours of Joe Biden," Wolff said. "I don't ever remember Biden being in the Oval. He was such a blowhard on all that stuff - there wasn't a reason to bring him in."
Andy Card, former White House chief of staff, reviewed the two Biden claims and said: "This does not ring true to me. I doubt that it happened."
A spokesman for Bush declined comment, although a person close to the former president said Bush does not remember either episode.
This is not the first time the veracity of Biden's assertions has been challenged. In 1988, he dropped out of the presidential race after being accused of plagiarizing British Labor Party leader Neil Kinnock. The Washington Post also cited "the senator's boastful exaggerations of his academic record."
Last year, liberal Slate magazine recalled that "Biden's misdeeds encompassed numerous self-aggrandizing thefts, misstatements, and exaggerations that seemed to point to a serious character defect."
Also last year, Biden came under fire for telling a questionable story about being "shot at" in Iraq.
"Let's start telling the truth," Biden said during a presidential primary debate sponsored by YouTube in July. "Number one, you take all the troops out -- you better have helicopters ready to take those 3,000 civilians inside the Green Zone, where I have been seven times and shot at. You better make sure you have protection for them, or let them die."
But when questioned about the episode afterward by the Hill newspaper, Biden backpedaled from his claim of being "shot at" and instead allowed: "I was near where a shot landed."
Biden went on to say that some sort of projectile "landed" outside a building in the Green Zone where he and another senator had spent the night during a visit in December 2005. The lawmakers were shaving in the morning when they felt the building shake, Biden said.
"No one got up and ran from the room-it wasn't that kind of thing," he told the Hill. "It's not like I had someone holding a gun to my head."
Seven weeks after claiming to have been "shot at" in Iraq, Biden again raised eyebrows with another story about his exploits in war zones -- this time on "the superhighway of terror between Pakistan and Afghanistan, where my helicopter was forced down."
"If you want to know where AL Qaeda lives, you want to know where bin Laden is, come back to Afghanistan with me," Biden bragged to the National Guard Association. "Come back to the area where my helicopter was forced down, with a three-star general and three senators at 10,500 feet in the middle of those mountains. I can tell you where they are."
But it turns out that inclement weather, not terrorists, prompted the chopper to land in an open field during Biden's visit to Afghanistan in February 2008. Fighter jets kept watch overhead while a convoy of security vehicles was dispatched to retrieve Biden and fellow Sens. Chuck Hagel and John Kerry.
"We were going to send Biden out to fight the Taliban with snowballs, but we didn't have to," joked Kerry, a Democrat, to the AP. "Other than getting a little cold, it was fine."
Why the Bush Bashing?
Your post is nothing more than that. Grow up, get a life that is filled with something other than hate.
why the bush bashing?
Spoken like a true conservative republican..if someone does not agree with you or live like you or vote like you or have the same beliefs or morals like you, you attack them personally, without any basis in fact for the attack. Get a life? Grow up? Things that have been posted here about Bush are the truth..PERIOD..yet, you turn around and attack personally, not knowing anything about the posters. I am grown up and do have a life, full of wonderful things and also full of politics and I will post and shout out and write editorials to the newspapers on this corrupt murderous administration any time I feel like it. Thank you very much. Now, why dont you go back to the Conservative Bush sheep section.
bashing bush
I do not see the media bashing Bush, honestly I still wonder why so Americans voted for him - so confusing our Country has never been in the Pearls it is in today, our poor troops!!!!!!
It is not dissent, it is bashing..
The whole gist of your post is bashing. When I complain about bashing of liberals on the liberal board, you reply by bashing even more....and not just bashing me, but all liberals. Why does it bring you so much pleasure to hate so many?
I don't really want an answer, I'll not read any more of your posts, or AG's crowing about you and her slamming the liberals on the liberal board. They are garbage.
Geez. No one is bashing you....
You post under both monikers and denied it for a long time, then finally admitted it. Not bashing, just the truth. And when I started posting as observer on the conservative board and liberal board when both existed, no one else was using that moniker and did not, and I did not know you had used it (yet ANOTHER one) before I started using it. No one said anything to me when I started using it, including YOU, until the issue was raised about Teddy/Taiga. So, you are the architect of fiction, not me. And as to portraying the truth...I suppose one must be able to recognize it. No synopsis to it, Teddy/Taiga. The truth, and no need to check the archives. You know and I know the truth, and anyone who has been posting and following this knows the truth too. What I don't understand is why you are making such a big deal about it. You posted using two monikers, denied you were doing so when confronted, and finally copped to it. It was not a big deal then and is not a big deal now.
Obama bashing
I agree about the measure of success. It's relative. A 4 or 5 point bump isn't exactly chicken-feed when you are already in the lead, but the success of his trip is not about the polls. They will bump and slump a hundred times between now and November for both candidates and because they are skewed, construed and misconstrued, they are not that meaningful one way or the other, especially since we still have not even made it to the conventions. What Obama succeeded in as a byproduct of his accepting McCain's challenge is that he did not exactly come across as some inexperienced rookie as McCain had hoped he would. Instead, he was well received among world leaders who were obviously quite comfortable around him, some of whom expressed their open support and acceptance. He came out of this trip with an impressive stash of diplomatic capital, something that McCain has yet to even recognize as being desirable or advantageous.
It is impossible to measure the numbers of people who were or were not "impressed" by his world citizen identity, but it is possible to be one and be a patriotic American at the same time. It's not a right or wrong, either/or thing. It is phrase that reflects an approach or attitude toward world view and is more accurately defined as a philosophy behind foreign policy that does not in any way diminish love of country. For those who promote diplomacy as an effective and viable alternative to war, it is well understood. For those who don't, it is just more fodder for personal attack and is often misrepresented as a lack of allegiance. This accusation is ludicrous and insulting. Many believe that the desire to avoid and/or prevent war is the ultimate expression of love for country and it is those people who he represents well.
This "hoohah" statement makes no sense. For the sake of clarity, diplomacy is a 4-letter word for those who subscribe to the belief that diplomatic world citizens are un-American. The Berlin speech sure didn't look so "little," with 200,000 in attendance. When did McCain ever spark such interest and excitement? It does not matter where the speeches are made. It is the message that counts. The time is now for a US president who inspires admiration and unity, rather than division, hatred and terror.
The surge is part of a war that did not work, is not working and will never work. Wasn't it just yesterday and the day before that Bush and McCain said something to the effect that the invasion of a sovereign country was inappropriate for the 21st century? Hypocrites. The horrors of war are the horrors of war, no matter who wages them in no matter what country. The surge is not a black and white issue. It is honest NOT to express support for something he does not believe. Personal attacks like this are not issues, they are tactics that lower the bar on the issues dialogue. The dynamics between Obama and the Reverend run much deeper than political expediency and these cheap shots are not exactly honest either. Long-term, meaningful relationships between people who hold diametrically opposed ideals are nothing new. They happen in families all the time. Michelle and Obama were not in South Chicago as part of some clandestine black militant conspiracy. They were doing neighborhood outreach that paralleled many of Trinity church's programs. To dismiss this subject with even that one statement does not do this subject nearly the justice it deserves.
Here's that information void again. Fox and CNN played a sound byte out of context over and over and over and over. A fifth grader could recognize this as propaganda. This does not constitute "so much information," and in fact, is no information at all. To understand his relationship with Rev Wright and that church requires an open mind, knowledge of black history and of Obama's background and biography, a willingness to step out of a comfort zone long enough to face some harsh realities about race in America and most importantly, a desire to understand. Anyone who parrots the trash that Fox and CNN put out on this subject obviously does not possess those traits and will simply have to be left to fester in their own hatred. These statements are made with a very straight face.
The name calling also is not worth addressing. However, there are plenty of white folks and blacks alike who are not black liberationists who can plainly see that it is time to reign in the corruption of the corporations and all their "special" interests, with the "R" word (regulation). How exactly did Ken Lay and his ilk earn those obscene salaries and perks at the cost of those whose hard work stuffed huge profits into their pockets, and just how many lives did they destroy in the process? In a country of such vast wealth, the plight of the homeless, the depths of the poverty, the existence of hunger, the shrinking middle class, the job flight for the sake of endless corporate greed, the foreclosure rates and the health care crisis (just to name a few) are a national disgrace. What some call Marxism/socialism, others think of as simple, basic humanity. It is time for that one fundamental American value to be restored for all our sakes, once and for all.
I wasn't bashing you
I read your post above where you were claiming everyone was bashing you and you were innocent and just defending yourself. I just want you to know I read my post again and I was not bashing you in case you included me in the group of all the people bashing you.
However, here you are calling me a liar. You also are claiming I am not a religious person, and I'll quote you... "You obviously are not a religious person, but that does not mean you are not a moral person, does it?" First telling me I'm a liar and I'm not a religious person, while you may not call that bashing, I call it disrespectful. You don't know me or my religious background and I take offense to someone who makes judgement about me without knowing me.
You also do not know my viewpoints on abortion but are assuming I'm for it. I find abortion dispicable and vile and I posted that awhile back when you first posted about abortion. So don't assume anything.
And how hard is it to not read posts on abortion? Very hard when it seems to come up every day or two. And when its all in capital letters???
It's time to stop playing the victim saying everyone is picking on you and your tired of being attacked when your the one doing the attacking on others for not believing the way you do and not wanted to discuss abortion every day. I see a lot of people are tired of the subject but your answer is "If that chaps you, so be it".
I really do hope other political issues will be on this board so we can put the abortion subject behind us. Enough has been said about it and it's getting old.
skip the bashing for a second, sim
nm
note: this was in no way gay-bashing, as i am gay too,
but i just had to laugh at the mental image of a pitbull with lipstick, trying its best not to look like a 'klondyke'.
No bashing from me. Just agreement.
//
How is this bashing Obama?
She gave you a quote--Obama's own words--and you're not getting it. He identifies with socialists and socialism. That IS the issue.
She lost...get over it. No need to keep bashing...nm
That was not necessary. Let's not start bashing again
Had enough of that before the election. She voiced an opinion. Let it rest.
I am not bashing - but the same can be said of hte pubs -
The bitter, bitter pubs are still bashing Obama instead of waiting and giving him a chance.
He is our next POTUS and he should be given the respect he is due in that position. Everybody should start with a clean slate - at least let him get started before you tear him down...
Here we go - bashing posters again
you claim the republicans bash and she's not bashing YOU ARE!!!!!!!
There's a difference between bashing and...(sm)
correcting a flat out lie, which is more often than not what we see from most pubs on here.
No bashing from me. I agree with you.
x
Obama Bashing
I agree!!!
This is bashing AFTER the election....these are
Being against Obama doesn't mean I was for McCain. As far as I am concerned, if Ron Paul had been given the attention he deserved and TV time, he would have gotten his points across and sounded like the only one with any sense at all...
What Obama is doing now has EVERYTHING to do with what he is doing NOW, not before. The lies are taking place NOW! Sorry you feel we are just to lie down and take the Obama railroading that is happening in our country. Saying NOTHING WILL CHANGE is sad to hear.. with that attitude you darn right it won't change. If something isn't done NOW, heaven help us all the next 4 years..... look at the mess he's gotten us into in just a few weeks... can you just imagine the next 4 years?
Issues? Gourdpainter, his lies ARE the issues. One lie after the other. Surrounding himself with lobbylists after saying he would DO AWAY with them is a MAJOR issue.... that isn't a before the election thing, that is happening NOW!
Getting our troops out is a NOW thing... remember he said he would get them out pronto?! Not happening! His lies are a NOW thing; they happen on an ongoing basis. These are not issues BEFORE his election.... these were promises he made to GET elected and then he screwed us all over BIG TIME!
He yammered on about poor folks with no healthcare but his wife was quietly dumped out of her $317,000 a year job at a hospital that was receiving MILLIONS of dollars to help the POOR PEOPLE.... a program she headed up and seemingly had no sympathy for the poor black folks without healthcare! She was quietly released from her job.... a job that was done away with with no replacement for her.... doesn't that tell you her job wasn't a position that was necessary in the first place other than to dump indigent patients off on other hospitals? You don't think that is an issue NOW? It speaks volumes about these people. After all, Obama is still yammering on about his healthcare program and trying to ram it down my throat.... you think that's not an important NOW issue?
And you don't think you are extreme? Christian bashing again, I see. nm
I'm not bashing and I never agreed to leave
but I am growing tired of this so that should give you some hope.
Bashing and discussion are two different things. sm
Evidently the moderator agrees, as she hasn't paid a visit to the boards.
The subject in this post is bashing...nm
Good manners and bashing
Could you clarify why telling someone they live in ignorance is markedly different from calling that person ignorant. They appear to be the same to me. Either way, it is a bash. There is no reason not to have good manners, whether on a political forum or at a tea party. Good folks have good manners, generally.
I notice that when bashing and poor manners occur, the person who is bashed is then attacked as being thin-skinned and not appropriate for political debates. It seems to be suggested that there is something ultimately wrong with a person who does not like being treated poorly. It's a way of deflecting the core problem of lack of manners.
Just food for thought. I'm sure there is room for improvement with all of us......
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