Not bickering. Holding feet to fire. Like GP...
Posted By: sam on 2008-11-05
In Reply to: and the bickering goes on and on and on, until when? Till 2012? - aw
and I agreed to. Have a good night!
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fighting fire with fire doesn't work
We have been hitting each other over the head with clubs since Early Man. The American military has killed innocents, too. I do not think Americans are more deserving of anything than anyone else who inhabits this planet. We are all human beings with families and feelings and lives. Perhaps its time to drop the weapons and communicate for a change.
fight fire with fire
We need to **take it there** more often and louder. We have been too quiet, too politically correct and where has it gotten us? The republicans have been smearing democrats and each election has had nothing but dirty tricks from the republicans. This past election, Kerry tried to be on the up and up, not personally attacking..What did the republicans do? Secretly paid for a group to smear Kerry and his Vietnam War record. When Bush was asked, he said he had nothing to do with the group. Baloney! It was backed by the republican party. That is the way Rove and Bush are, they smear their opponents. Time to fight fire with fire. No more Mr. Nice Guy.
and the bickering goes on and on and on, until when? Till 2012?
Good night !
Petty bickering about stuff from 16 years ago
Pardon the pun here, but we have bigger fish to fry....much bigger fish. Rahm has all the qualities that a chief of staff needs and if you don't like his personality, oh well. What is obvious here is that you are making judgments WAY too prematurely. One person does not a trend make. The undertones of your post are juvenile and you sound like a smart alek. If you rarely read or post on this board, then why don't you just drive on by and keep on going? We could probably get along just fine without your input.
Can we stop the bickering for a few moments and say a sincere prayer...
for those on our gulf coast, and for all the emergency workers down there to help? They are more important than anything we are saying here right now!
Don't know about his feet.....but his
plans for this country sure do stink to high he11!
Don't think you can blame it all at the feet of conservatives....
runaway social programs are certainly not the fault of conservatives...raiding of social security was not done by conservatives...Democrats did that. You can't blame the moral relativism of today on conservatives either. Pre-emptive war was also something started by Democrats (Viet Nam). Democrats kept blacks from having the vote until the 1960's. So please...let's not try to blame EVERYTHING on conservatives...because that is a crock. No one group of people got us where we are today. It was definitely a combined effort.
"I am learning at the feet of the masters."
As I said, you seem to need to lace your posts with insults. You've never answered how that comprises good debating technique. You have only blamed other posters for your own behavior.
You continue to call me Teddy as some sort of taunt I suppose. And I remember you accusing me of being other folks posting....heck we even invited you to email several of us in order to prove via email that we were different people but you declined to do so. Apparently the belief that we were all the same person was somehow comforting in a world full of evil liberals!
why don't u just throw yourself on the floor and kick your feet
talk about childish - I never called you anything until you called me "an old hag" - so throw your little tantrum and try to convince yourself how "real" you actually are. Actions speak louder than words and..........well, you might have a case of mistaken identity here - I don't harass anyone - I stay out of the petty pssing matches. Get all flustered up over what you consider SACRED - who cares???? I don't. And no, I DON'T have to agree with you or anyone else for that matter and I don't give a flying fk if you agree with me.
How juvenile...why don't you throw yourself on the floor and kick your feet
x
Bring us out of the 20th century and plant our feet firmly
Keep it simple.
I have been holding my tongue on that ...sm
It is interesting though. These were Bush, Reagan, Ford and Clinton appointees that made this decision (5-3). And I see where the right is upset, but to me it is pivotal that they followed the law and not beliefs and I'll tell you why.
Charles Lane, writer for the Washington Times wrote (see link below), *Brushing aside administration pleas not to second-guess the commander in chief during wartime, a five-justice majority ruled that the commissions, which were outlined by Bush in a military order on Nov. 13, 2001, ***were neither authorized by federal law nor required by military necessity, and ran afoul of the Geneva Conventions.*** As a result, no military commission can try Salim Ahmed Hamdan, the former aide to Osama bin Laden whose case was before the justices, or anyone else, unless the president does one of two things he has resisted doing for more than four years: operate the commissions by the rules of regular military courts-martial, or ask Congress for specific permission to proceed differently.*
Looking at it this way, *Bush* NOT the Supreme Court, has held this up for four years when he could have done the prior one or two things. No president can just willy nilly make up things as he goes without going through the proper channels. This case is no different. Checks and balances is taught in elementary nowadays. I predict as he ways he will, he will get with Congress and they will collectively make a decision on something that will bring the POWs to justice (wishful thinking).
Do I want to see bin Laden's assistant, or any other war criminals walk? No, especially not the perpetrators in the 9-11 attacks. That's something I do not want to see come of this decision, but we must respect our own democracy in seeking justice.
This is just my opinion of what I understand is going on with the decision. If anyone can shed some more light on it I'd appreciate it. Have a good holiday weekend!
I'm not holding my breath......sm
I'll believe Obama gives me a tax cut when it happens, as well as help out with my health insurance. Can't tell from his website how "exactly" that's going to happen. His website if filled with a whole lot of words that are meaningless to me. Sounds good, but I don't see a lot of substance there, just like when he was campaigning.
Not holding my breath, but I'll come back and tell you if either of those things happen.
Not a Republican even though I leaned towards McCain over Obama, since he's such an unknown (and still is), and I actually decided I couldn't vote for McCain either....so my vote went to neither of them.
Who's holding a gun to your head? Don't like him
Simple as pie. Why spend your life being angry and posting these pathetically juvenile insults? Nothing better to do?
What's holding Edwards back?
Still holding out that last desperate hope
DNC has proven this over and over and over and over and over again. Burden or proof is now on the Berg the Boob.
the world is holding their breath
After 9/11 would the United States really elect a black man named Barack Hussein Obama?
Right now on C-Span, they are holding hearings
for the auto bailout. It's just starting.
fire with fire
Tired of dirty fighting? It is the republican party who was the dirty fighters, not the democrats. and they continue to be dirty fighters and will win again and again if we dont stand up to them. Fight fire with fire. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. In the political spectrum that is America, you dont get anywhere for being the up and up person, the good guy, you win with dirty tricks. If you dont realize that, you need to step back when it comes to politics..I bemoan the situation, for sure, but I will fight fire with fire and the democrats will win once again..and, clue to you, check on Bushs right hand man, Rove, look at his extremely dirty politics and then ask yourself can we ever win against something like that by being nice? I dont think so and the country depends on the liberals getting the country back on track. I will do everything it takes, of course, everything that is legal. I dont break the law like Rove and libby are now being shown that they did.
Please fire them all. sm
People are losing their jobs, homes, and on the streets - and a mouse gets 35 million.
We're not holding our breath. Owning up
nm
James Montgomery, Esq. is holding a press
conference. Jesse Jackson, Jr. is "candidate #5" and he thinks Blagojevich should step aside and resign and let the Lt. Gov. take over. He states JJ, Jr. is qualified for the position.
He states JJ, Jr. is not guity of anything. He is not worried about any consequences of this except the media frenzy that is being created by this. If the meeting between the Gov. and JJ, Jr. was taped, they have no concern over it.
He (JJ, Jr.) will be speaking with the investigators on Friday or Monday. He will be holding a press conference in 15-16 minutes.
There is a picture of her in a bathing suit holding
a gun...does that count?
Holding people accountable and blaming
people are 2 different things. Blaming either party will get us nowhere. The situation is upon us and the blame game is only holding up the resolution.
Holding people accountable may help to prevent a similar situation in the future. Holding someone accountable means owning up to their part in the problem and making retribution to fix the problem. If someone went along with this and gained financially from it, then that person should be accountable - own up and pay up. If someone went along with this and gained politically, then that person should be accountable - own up and give up (your position).
I took serious offense to your comment because you didn't say it was directed to the politicians on the hill. You said as a general statement to all dems.
so quit talking and start doing -- what's holding you
nm
It isn't the Navy holding her child support
The federal government has rules concerning how much of someone's paycheck that you can garnish. I personally was in the Navy (in payroll of all things) and when I went through my divorce, the court ordered a whole $325 a month for 2 kids (both in daycare at $120/week/per kid). We were both discharged just prior to the divorce and he purposely took a job that paid $6 an hour, working 20 hours a week. The judge, out of the kindness of his heart, based the child support on him making $6/hr at 40 hours, not the 20 he was working. He was capable of making more, but wanted to tick me off. BUT, you cannot garnish more than 60% of ones wages and if back support is owed, not more than 65% with the 5% going to pay off the arreage.
There are certain things that you can take into consideration when they garnish your wages (most states make it mandatory now). In the military, they cannot include your food ration money, housing money, uniform money and whatever extras they have these days. They can only include your base salary. Being that military pay royally sucks, I can see where they are not handing over everything that is owed, especially if he is lower ranking.
I know it bites the big one and I feel for your daughter, being that I have been there, but she can get through it and be stronger for it. She needs to show her kids that she can hold her head up high and trudge on. I'll keep her in my prayers.
Thinking good thoughts and holding him up...:-) nm
nm
If that's the case, I'm holding a bake sale.
If my sending money to Israel can help them buy bombs to nuke the Palestinians off the face of the planet, I'm cutting them a check right now.
KaBOOOOOOM!
Mazel tov!
I'm not predicting anything...just holding onto that new 4-letter word
YES WE CAN
Cease fire.
No canned text for me. The tone of our posts are set by these my-way-of-the-highway / scorched earth approaches to opposite views. I have very exhilarating exchanges when the 2 parties are respectful, informed, flexible, open-minded, focused and on task, more interested in finding common ground than sowing the seeds of division, looking for solutions as opposed to validation and understanding that no political problems will ever be solved without bipartisan participation, mediation and compromise.
Plagiarizing and paraphrasing an opponent’s text and ideas and trying to throw them back at them does not an effective argument make. Furthermore, it is childish…like those playground disputes between children…“you did, no you did, no you did”…etc. It is not your ideas that I find so distasteful, it is your presentation. Not to be cliché, but you attract more bees with sugar than vinegar. I am not intolerant of Hannity…watch him frequently. Cannot have an effective debate without becoming familiar with the “cons” side of the argument.
On the bigot thing. Remember me? I’m the one who is hawking inclusion, supportive of minority interests, and has the audacity to suggest that Americans are not the only ones who just might deserve some equality, dignity, respect and basic human rights…even if they are illegal. I suppose it is a positive sign that you at least take offense. There’s hope for you yet.
On racial purity. You are really big on maintaining American cultural integrity and identity. But when it comes to extending the same consideration to our immigrants you go ballistic…clear off the map, at times. They can walk and chew gum at the same time…it is possible to preserve ones’ native culture AND be a good American. These are not two mutually exclusive concepts. If our democratic principles are all they are cracked up to be, it would not be so painful to see them behaving like Americans.
Going to go out on a limb here and to use and example. Mexican-Americans gathered together (right to assemble) waving their flag in protest (freedom of speech) of harsh immigration laws or working conditions in the maquilidoras are trying to bring these issues to the doorstep of the government who created those conditions (right to redress grievances). What could be more American than that? You cannot look at that crowd and distinguish between which among them are legal and which are not…after all, those are issues of ALL Mexican natives. Should we deny all of them these rights, implying that such rights are reserved for the REAL Americans? Being American is not simply a matter of a piece of paper, some arbitrary degree of language proficiency, some certain level of income or education. They should not be required to melt into the pot and disappear, renounce their birthrights and turn their backs on their own people just to qualify. Can’t have it both ways. If you want them to be Americans, then you have to LET them be Americans.
Ask yourself this question. If you saw 50,000 illegal Irish immigrants doing the same thing in NYC, would your reaction be the same? The bottom line is this: Our new wave of immigrants does not look like the ones from the past. You seemed to enjoy the DAR bridge party swapping stories of how they all came from different countries and cross bred with one another …even had a occasional Indian in the wood pile…and produced this great nation of mutts. But the breed was selectively white. If it was okay then, it should be okay now. The problem you are grappling with is that the results would produce all these mongrel shades of God-knows what. If this make you uncomfortable in the least little bit…if you are now feeling driven to slap me up side the head…that’s the voice of bigotry.
On elitism. Your posts are full of strict, literal reads and “tudes” as you call them. Sue me if I took a page from your book. At least you sort of tried to address the “academics,” still not calling it by name. If you could stop slaying the messenger long enough to hear the message, you would understand that there is nothing condescending about wanting to engage in informed debate that orients itself around reaching mutual respect and understanding. It has absolutely nothing to do with being angry or feeling superior. Think what you like, but I am neither of those. I simply enjoy using my language and have an affinity for broad vocabulary. It’s just who I am. Blame it on the docs. They certainly sent me to the dictionary too many times to count and I lingered there for a while, that’s all there is to it. This personal trait should not in any way exempt me from debate, nor should I be subjected to ridicule, name calling or unfounded accusations because of it.
There is something you and I have in common. We are 2 American gals coming from opposite ends of the political spectrum, locked into the extreme divisions that plague our fellow citizens from shore to shore. If we cannot find our way past this kind of bickering in which we both find ourselves ensconced, we all are in big trouble.
Believe it or not, Sam, I actually enjoy our posts. Okay, go ahead if you like. Send me to the therapist again. Call me masochist, bipolar, schizo, whatever. I just think we could do better than this.
Speaking of therapy, I have a life-long friend, an endearing street thug / bad boy from younger days, who grew up and became a therapist. He works with drug addicts, adult children of alcoholics (being one himself) and dysfunctional families. He said something to me that made a lot of sense. One of the first challenging pieces of advice he throws out to a new patient is to “try to keep things in the third person,” in an effort to “dial back” nonproductive confrontations with family members. I thought he was crazy at first, but I started trying this with my husband and to my surprise, it really did seem to help us to better understand one another, even after 18 years. That is what I will be trying to do next time you and I visit the water cooler. If you want to chill on the immigrant dialog for a while, that works for me.
Thanks for the good luck wishes on the job search. Hope I can find a decent company that is not just another maquilidora masquerading as an MTSO!
Where there is smoke there is fire!!
xx
Oh...forum domination. Someone holding your hands behind your back....
and preventing you from posting? Or don't you have a cause you care enough about TO post?
That was not the question....Gitmo is a holding area for terrorists...
The Hanoi Hilton housed American soldiers. And yes, I think it is VERY important that a presidential candidate is a patriot, has integrity, strong in the face of unimaginable pressure, and puts his country even before himself. Yes, I think all those are VERY strong criteria for the Presidency. Obama has nothing in his resume to indicate that he is that patriotic, that UNself-serving, showed that he put his fellow prisoners above himself...and you compare that to a terrorist in Gitmo. Good grief. ??
Yep...and today he is holding a town hall in France...
yukking it up with Europe as his own country circles the drain....pittiiiffullll.
Well sh1t fire...ain't that the truth!
In America, anyone can be President. That's one of the risks we take.
Fire-and-brimstone campaign
You can go to your fire-and brimstone rallies, wallow in your misery, and try to think of more ways to smear the finest candidate this Country has seen in decades.
I will go to the joyful rallies, full of hope for the future of this great Country.
No smoke, no fire, only mirrors. LOL!
.
Who's God? Your God? My God? Earth, Wind and Fire?
x
Okay. Where is the petition to fire that CNN reporter
nm
Remember Bush holding hands with Prince Abdullah???
So as far as reading anything into Obama trying to get our nation back on the right track, thank God what was here before no longer around.
They will think whatever they need to think to stoke the fire that feeds their hatred. nm
Boy, your cease fire didn't last long....LOL
Just in case you are interested, and I doubt you are, I wrote this BEFORE you wrote your cease fire, not AFTER. Which makes your cease fire ring all the more hollow, especially in the face of this..."Okay you want to keep the gloves off..." LOL. And if this dialing it back a notch...yes, frankly, I would suggest you go back and talk to that family friend because you haven't got the third person thing down yet. Every post flies in the face of what you try to say. You ARE angry. You DO need to feel superior. You want what you want, I want what I want. I make specific examples of specific Americans I have personal knowledge of who immigrated from Mexico and that is their experience, and the experience of many others. But you could care less. If it doesn't illustrate your point, you don't care about it. You don't care that it costs your fellow citizens millions every year to support illegal immigrants...money that could be going to the needs of citizens of this country. And where do you get that illegals don't stay anyway? Got any of those 4-letter words to support that?
Yes, my feelings extend to ANY nationality illegal immigrant. Why on earth do you think I hate Mexicans? I don't hate ANYONE. I just want them to come here legally like other immigrants have, get a green card, go through the process, become citizens if that is what they choose to do, or go back home when their visas expire. Draw and quarter me for that if you like. I couldn't, at this point, care LESS.
Again you completely missed the fact that I grew up and went to school with Mexican immigrant children and knew their families and keep in touch today. I have no problem with Mexicans. It is a fact that the biggest problem we have with immigration is from Mexico...welll duhhh...we share a border with them. Much easier for them to immigrate illegally, much easier because of the porous border for folks to get in that we don't really want to get in. But of course, you would
As to it takes a long time to become a citizen, yada yada yada...well, good things come to those who wait. It has always taken a long time to become a citizen. Since there are millions here who are citizens, obviously they thought it was worth the wait. Excuses, excuses, excuses. It is the LAW. Do you pick and choose what laws you want upholded and those you don't?
You say NONE of them want to change who we are or what we are. Did I miss the part where you were named national spokesperson for illegal immigrants? You don't even realize you said the same thing I said. Yes, they come here for a better life. That's fine. If I immigrated to Canada for a better life, I would not carry the American flag down their streets in protest, out of respect if nothing else, but I suppose that is something that does not matter to you either...it certainly is not present in your rants. If I immigrated to Canada to a part where they spoke predominantly French, I would learn French. I would be embracing of their culture. Because I chose to make that my country and my home. I would not have to be asked to do so. But obviously I am the exception and not the rule.
Again with the languages. I don't care how many languages are spoken here. My sole point is that for preservation and protection of the United States of America we should be united...and you don't see that either. I belive what I believe, you believe what you believe. And never the twain shall meet, it would appear. Does not make me wrong, does not make you wrong. I will hold my hopes for the America I long for and you hold the hopes for the America you long for. The years to come will tell the tale. And if all this comes back to bite you years down the road...and we are too old to care...that little voice in the back of your head that said "I told you so..." That will be me.
The Civil War...geez. It was all ABOUT preserving unity. If it had not been fought to preserve the union we would be two countries today fighting back and forth across the border like Iran and Iraq for example. Slavery was only part of the issue of the civil war. But a brilliant man (and Republican I might add) Abraham Lincoln saw the folly in splitting the union, and another fine man, Robert E. Lee, saw the same folly...but chose to be a Virginian before an American, though it broke his heart to do so (to use his own words), and we see where that led. After the civil war and the slaves were freed, we came back together as a country, stronger than before, and never since have Americans chosen to be anything but Americans first. So far. That is what I would like to preserve. That is all I am talking about. Unity. Read up on the civil war. Read up on Abraham Lincoln and Robert E. Lee. Both great men with great vision. The Civil War was about unity.
As to now who's arrogant? I am about the most UN-arrogant person you would ever meet. I wouldn't know how to be verbally condescending and you have it down to a fine art. For someone who is not angry and not needing to feel superior, your posts say the opposite.
All this aside, keep safe during the bad weather coming up. I know hurricanes don't go inland very far too often, praying that it won't get to you. Hoping tornados spawned won't get to either. Keep your head down and live to verbally slice and dice me another day. :)
If she had the proper and legal authority to fire him --
then why didn't she just do it instead of them telling the other guy to do it - then there would not be a problem.
Also, this inquiry was started before she was running for the VP slot - so it was not something they cooked up to get her after she got picked by McCain.
Ever heard of jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire? (nm)
x
The fire safety argument is a lot of hooey.
Is it more of a fire hazard just because more than 15 people meet on a regular basis than if someone has a single party for 30 people?
As long as you and the other wiccans are clothed and no open-burning laws are being broken (in a residential area, that would be a fire hazard) I would have no particular problem with your rituals. Depending on the time of day/night and loudness of chanting, it might constitute a disturbance of the peace, same as a loud barbecue party in the neighborhood. But with the basic concept of your meeting, no big deal.
Newly Elected Muslim Lawmaker Under Fire...sm
My take: If you make a person who does not hold the Bible sacred swear to uphold his office on it, then does that swearing in really mean anything. They don't follow the teachings of the Bible, so why would it be relevant for them to swear on the Bible? (article below)
Newly Elected Muslim Lawmaker Under Fire
Decision to Take Oath on Koran Sparks Controversy
..
By Andrea Stone, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON (Dec. 1) -- The first Muslim elected to Congress hasn't been sworn into office yet, but his act of allegiance has already been criticized by a conservative commentator. In a column posted Tuesday on the conservative website Townhall.com, Dennis Prager blasted Minnesota Democrat Keith Ellison's decision to take the oath of office Jan. 4 with his hand on a Quran, the Muslim holy book.
He should not be allowed to do so, Prager wrote, not because of any American hostility to the Koran, but because the act undermines American culture.
He said Ellison, a convert from Catholicism, should swear on a Christian Bible -- which America holds as its holiest book. … If you are incapable of taking an oath on that book, don't serve in Congress.
The post generated nearly 800 comments on Townhall.com and sparked a tempest in the conservative blogosphere. Many who posted comments called the United States a Christian country and said Muslims are beginning to gain too much influence. Others wrote about the separation of church and state and said the Constitution protects all religions.
Dave Colling, Ellison's spokesman, said he was unavailable for comment. Earlier, Ellison told the online Minnesota Monitor, The Constitution guarantees for everyone to take the oath of office on whichever book they prefer. And that's what the freedom of religion is all about.
Colling said Ellison's office has received hundreds of very bigoted and racist e-mails and phone calls since Prager's column appeared. The vast majority said, 'You should resign from office if you're not willing to use the book our country was founded on,' Colling said
Requiring somebody to take an oath of office on a religious text that's not his violates the Constitution, said Kevin Hasson, president of The Becket Fund for Religious Liberty.
Members of the House of Representatives traditionally raise their right hands and are sworn in together on the floor of the chamber. The ritual sometimes seen as the swearing-in is actually a ceremonial photo op with the speaker of the House that usually involves a Bible.
They can bring in whatever they want, says Fred Beuttler, deputy historian of the House.
Prager, who is Jewish, wrote that no Mormon elected official has demanded to put his hand on the Book of Mormon. But Republican Sen. Gordon Smith of Oregon, carried a volume of Mormon scriptures that included the Bible and the Book of Mormon at his swearing-in ceremony in 1997.
Prager, who hosts a radio talk show, could not be reached for comment.
12-01-06 11:28 EST
Copyright 2006 USA TODAY, a division of Gannett Co. Inc. All Rights Reserved.
MTPockets posted about SP loving to fire people.
MTPockets could've just kept her post to the issue, but she had to throw in the barb about firing, so the next poster has every right to address it. Or is what she is referencing over your head?
I couldn't get in...crowd already exceeded the fire code.
So, after parking two blocks away and trudging to the party, the fire officials kept us out because the fire code only allows 300, of which there were more than that inside. Then the cops told us we couldn't congregate outside either due to traffic and not having a separate (outdoor) permit.
Not exactly what I'd hoped for since it was a wasted trip for me, but still wonderful.
U.S., France join in cease-fire call in Lebanon war..sm
So we are back bumping elbows with France. If only we would have taken their advice on Iraq too.
Dems leak Palin's SSN, Fred on Fire, Newt
A few tidbits from Rush today. Compare Nancy Pelosi to Newt--not even a contest!
Mr. Newt Rips NBC Reporter
Gingrich fights back
Fred Thompson's speech at RNC video)
dont worry, you wont catch on fire when you read them!
i have to go know and pick up my daughter. I might do some bible thumping on the way to the school, who knows.
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