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Okay....right alongside them should be the Democratic local authorities who also have culpability.

Posted By: sam on 2008-08-31
In Reply to: Pubs would love that, but no can do. - Posts will stay at the top until...

fair is fair. This is particularly nasty little ol' post.


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You're right,...right alongside the Democrats
xx
local supermarket
In a local supermarket, they have set up a recruiting station.  Well, when shopping and I noticed this, my outrage grew (smile).  I walked over to the place, stood in front.  They were washing the windows and I stated, **be the first one on your block to have your boy come home in a box**.  The girl washing the windows young, so maybe she knew nothing about the FISH song or Vietnam..She said..what did you say??  I repeated the lyric from the FISH song (which you can listen to on the Woodstock album).  A guy came out the door, I showed him my middle finger (sorry, it was in the heat of the moment..I dont like death, I dont like lies)..and I walked away..
it is either state and local's
responsibility and he should stay away until things calm down OR he blew it last time and he doesn't that memory to to influence the election. You can't have it both ways.
Well, now. I just read in our local

paper that our wonderful governor (who has almost bankrupted our state) thinks he may be chosen for the Secretary of Transportation or Energy. But have no fear....he promises us he will remain our governor until 2011.


Please, beg the O not to offer the job to him or he will do the same thing to the country as he did to our state. Our state is in worse shape than before he took over. He has not kept 1 promise to us except that he would get casinos in here to help with property taxes and yet, we have yet to see our taxes lowered.


Just saw this on the local news
This is so disgusting I'm speechless.
have you bothered to go to your local PD?
x
Local politics

(Yeah, you know, ‘’flyover country.’’


 


As part of the stimulus package, President Obama rescued our recent police academy graduating class.  The City had run out of bucks and Mayor Michael (Don’t Question My Manhood*) Coleman threatening to lay these 25 recruits off – one week short of graduation.   The stimulus package provided the money to let them graduate and to let them enter their probationary period on the street.


 


The president even spoke at the graduation ceremony 03/06/2009 and said in part:


So for those who still doubt the wisdom of our recovery plan, I ask them to talk to the teachers who are still able to teach our children because we passed this plan. I ask them to talk to the nurses who are still able to care for our sick, and the firefighters and first responders who will still be able to keep our communities safe. I ask them to come to Ohio and meet the 25 men and women who will soon be protecting the streets of Columbus because we passed this plan. (Applause.) I look at these young men and women, I look into their eyes and I see their badges today and I know we did the right thing.


These jobs and the jobs of so many other police officers and teachers and firefighters all across Ohio will now be saved because of this recovery plan -- a plan that will also create jobs in every corner of this state. Last week, we announced that Ohio would receive $128 million that will put people to work renovating and rebuilding affordable housing. (Applause.) On Tuesday -- on Tuesday I announced that we'd be sending another $935 million to Ohio that will create jobs rebuilding our roads, our bridges, and our highways. (Applause.) And yesterday, Vice President Biden announced $180 million for this state that will go towards expanding mass transit and buying fuel-efficient buses -- money that will be putting people to work, getting people to work. (Applause.) 


There was much more self-congratulatory oratory, the link is: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/03/obamas_remarks_at_columbus_pol.html


What’s wrong with this picture?  Well, the City is still broke.  A 25% income tax ballot proposal was defeated in the May primary.  Mayor Coleman now says that unless it is passed when it is put back on the ballot in August, 250 public safety jobs (police and fire) will be eliminated.   So much for saving the recruit class of  2009!


Why is it that the first thing a politician (and I include Republicans along with Democrats - Coleman just happens to be a Dem) does when he wants money is threaten vital services?  Coleman insists that this is not a power play.  But, of course, whenever a politician says he is not lying I have only to watch his lips.  If they are moving, I know he is full of it.  We all can think of dozens of  less-crucial departments or programs that could more easily be cut, but that would not have the emotional appeal that jeopardizing citizens’ lives by cutting police and fire services. 


Another issue on the ballot was for the parks system, a bond issue to operate existing parks as well as acquire lands and  build several new ones.   The issue passed, but should we really be spending money on new parks when THE CITY IS OUT OF MONEY??  No accident that both expenditures were on the same ballot issue.  Had we been given the choice of voting on the operating and construction funding separately, the outcome may have been different.  Had the issue been defeated, the City could have threatened to close existing parks and put the issue back on the August ballot. 


*Don’t Question My Manhood/ great moments in radio


 


In spring 2005 Columbus made national news (difficult as that is to imagine) over the story of a mentally-challenged girl who was sexually molested by several boys in a public school.  What made this a scandal, is that the school and school system, rather than report this to the police, covered it up.  When the story broke, Glenn Beck gave it lots of air time, asking why Michael Coleman, as mayor of Columbus, had done nothing about it.  Coleman (foolishly) agreed to go on the air to discuss it.  (Operating strictly by memory here, I am not sure if a transcript of the full interview can be obtained anywhere, but it really was a side-splitter.)  As I recall, Coleman said running the school board was not in his job description....


 


Beck, 41, said he wanted to talk to Coleman because he assumed the mayor would be as ''outraged as I am.'' Instead, he said, when Coleman got on the air, ''all I heard was blah, blah, blah. He was being a politician. . . . I wanted to talk to him as a dad, not as a politician.''


 


In the interview, Coleman and Beck continually talked over and past each other. The result was verbal chaos.


 


As Beck began one question by saying, ''I’m asking you as a man and a father...'' Coleman cut him off and said, ''Don’t question my manhood. Don’t you ever question my manhood.'' Coleman later said he misheard the question.


 


Link to Columbus Dispatch article:


 


http://www.dispatch.com/live/contentbe/dispatch/2005/04/22/20050422-A1-05.html


 


The local hospital uses a system like this
but it's just a matter of time until they will invest in the additional equipment so they no longer need any MTs.  I forgot about all the file clerks, etc. in medical records whose jobs have already been cut.  Lordy!!!  What on earth are we all gonna do when they "save money" by taking away ALL our jobs. 
Wow - local news from NY - how unbiased.
nm
Read the thread. It's about a local -
New York's not exactly a swing state.

Not with all the ghetto crack addicts and abortion-loving welfare moms.

Dems all the way, baby!
Looking at Arizona local news...

it looks like they may have changed some of the voting locations..not sure when.  Check out website below to make sure she went to the right place.


http://www.azsos.gov/election/polling_places.htm


Hope this helps.


On the local news this morning:

US is deploying anti-missle weapons to Hawaii in case N.Korea aims their newest long range missle towards Hawaii on July 4. Hopefully, Alaska is armed to the hilt.


That maniac needs to go.


 


The state and local levels are the criminals here
I'm sick and tired of Bush getting all the blame. The local and state governments diverted pre-Katrina funds to shore up levees and to solidify effective hurricane evacuation to their pet projects. Ray Nagin let thousands of school buses sit in the New Orleans public school bus yard because he could not authorize their use. How, many phone calls would it have taken for him to get to the right person who could authorize it??? Probably less than two. He's one of the most inept and corrupt people in N.O. and yet the lemmings of N.O. voted him back in, because he could whine about the Fed. He didn't give a rip until his city was dessiminated then he did the usual nanny state liberal thing and that was to blame someone else. Don't even get me started on Ms. Air-head governor. She is a complete joke.

The federal government may beeen slow, but the state and local governments were beyond negligent. They are criminals.
Well, then post a link to YOUR local news!

Who gives a rip about local news in an already-decided state?
That's why the polls are NATIONAL polls, duh!

And I don't know what you're implying by your virus comment. Grow the he!! up already.
HSUS is not the local humane society....

HIDDEN  ENEMY :


HSUS – The Humane Society of the United States


Reptile breeders should feel pride in the progress they’ve helped achieve over the past several decades.  We’ve unraveled many of the mysteries of inducing our animals to reproduce in captivity, and have made ‘Captive-Bred’ ( = 'CB' ) a common adjective in the hobby and industry.  CB applied to herps is now understood to reflect ‘quality’ and ‘hardiness’ as pets.  The percentage of CB herps available today dwarfs what we had just ten years ago, and is already making up a significant proportion of herps sold in pet shops. 


Just as it seems obvious to us close to the herp industry that this natural evolution is proceeding well, new threats to our freedom to keep herps looms in the form of three ‘new’ enemies – the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS), The Fund For Animals, and People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA).  The PETA are presently under scrutiny by the F.B.I. as a terrorism network because of their admission of funding extremists who have destroyed several facilities by fire.  These closely-aligned organizations have remained largely hidden from our notice until recently.  They have now set their sights on the reptile hobby and trade, their ultimate goals being to stop it completely. 


The HSUS is a familiar group to most people.  Its name seems to imply it all – humane treatment for animals.  In the past, the group took in abandoned cats and dogs, prosecuted farms that allowed livestock to starve, and went after people who mistreated animals in some way.  It created animal shelters, promoted spay-neuter programs, and developed modern euthanasia protocols.  We all applauded the old HSUS efforts and supported it with our donations.  We believed in what it stood for and helped make it a huge and powerful organization. 


The HSUS was wildly successful in its efforts.  The public was educated and abuse cases dwindled.  Nowadays, it’s headline news when a rare case of neglect or other atrocity against animals is uncovered and prosecuted.  Anyone who may have allowed care of an animal in their custody to become substandard is now frightfully aware of the consequences of such unacceptable behavior. 


Why is this seemingly worthy organization a problem now?


Since 1954, the HSUS has grown into a huge bureaucratic organization with 200+ employees and well over $200,000,000 (by 2005) in their bank accounts.  The money is stock-piled, and not one dollar of it is used to help the many ‘Humane Society’ shelters in cities across America .  The HSUS long ago separated itself from all the smaller regional societies around the country, sharing no funding at all with them now.  You are doing nothing to help your local community animal shelter by donating money to the Humane Society of the United States ! 


The HSUS got fat and prosperous capitalizing on our concern for the plight of homeless animals by bombarding us with tear-jerking fundraising campaigns.  Its assets naturally attracted humaniac extremist groups like PETA that wished to tap into the war chest of funds.  Radical animal rights proponents thoroughly infiltrated the HSUS and instilled their idealistic views as representing the whole organization’s doctrine.  Then a subtle ‘coup’ occurred in 1973, warranted by the changing leadership because “the costs of running a local animal control operation [was] drawing off funds needed elsewhere”.  (< That quote is from the HSUS’ own website!)   They literally declared that supporting the small Humane Society shelters across the U.S. was 'stealing' the money needed to pursue their own new humaniac agendas.


The HSUS split away completely, dropping financial support of all the smaller state ‘Humane Society’ groups.  But they did it quietly to leave everyone with the logical impression they were now just the national headquarters coordinating all ‘their local chapters’.  They have purposely done nothing to erase that illusion of ‘umbrella organization’ to insure receiving all the same donation monies you thought were still supporting your home town animal shelters.  The HSUS’s coffers swelled because they didn’t have to share the wealth anymore.  It was a pretty sneaky and wildly successful move on their part!


The HSUS grew into a rich monster that basked in the glory of its past accomplishments of conquering cruelty to animals.  But with that war largely won, the ‘new’ HSUS had a different agenda to set its sights on.  Most importantly, it had to continue evoking sympathy donations from the public to keep the money flowing in.  Creating a new, visible enemy became a necessity.  They chose to refocus on non-traditional pets largely because the ranks of people in the bird, reptile and fish hobbies / industries were less unified, easier targets.  This is why reptile-keeping has come under attack.  We’re the new excuse – the new bad guys – to keep their paychecks coming in steadily.


In its distorted view (and the published rhetoric it distributes to back it), reptiles are totally unsuitable as pets.  The HSUS preaches that nearly all reptiles suffer shortened life spans when kept in cages.  It goes so far as to include all captive-bred herps in that appraisal, but not through sheer ignorance. 


The HSUS’s clever strategy is to focus the public’s attention on isolated problems it can capture in pictures or on video to invoke sympathy, then imply that those disturbing images represent the norm in the entire industry.  Recognizing the huge progress in herpetoculture over the past couple decades would not strengthen the gloomy ecological scenario it wants people to remember when filling out those donation checks.  The HSUS purposely ignores captive breeding success and how it is rapidly replacing the need for some wild-caught herps.  It's crucial the public stay duped into believing that stopping reptile-keeping is the only way to protect animals in nature.  The HSUS needs this manufactured image to focus public condemnation and thus assure continued funding of their efforts.


Another HSUS approach is to scare us into believing that reptile-related Salmonella has reached plague proportions.  Its well-paid advertising staff uses the craftiest psychology to twist facts and statistics and to publicize the ‘huge’ health threat herps pose.  It knows such tactics weigh heavily on parents’ minds, hoping those frightened parents will prohibit their children from having herps at all. 


Just how big a problem is Salmonella anyway?  Bill and I do not know, or even know of, anyone who has ever contracted Salmonella from reptiles in their entire lives.  We don’t even personally know of any Salmonella cases, period, and we know and meet lots of herp keepers!  We don't doubt that it happens occasionally, but the HSUS is blowing public health fears all out of proportion to achieve their animal rights goals.


Unlike the old HSUS, the new PETAphile leaders have declared total war on all pet keepers, intending to end the practice of owning pets completely.  They’ve stated that goal repeatedly, though they try to subtly disguise the true, hidden agenda so not to scare away contributions from cat and dog owners.  On their website’s home page (http://www.hsus.org), they state “Promoting the protection of all animals”.  What they mean is to protect ALL animals from any use by humans - as pets, as food, as leather, for medical research --- EVERYthing!   Don’t let them fool you --- HSUS and PETA are essentially synonymous today.


The HSUS is presently trying to make virtually every act of pet keeping an offense by emphasizing every imperfection in our ability to draft new species into captivity / domestication.  They subtly bombard schools with free 'animal information' that carries their propaganda, preaching their private agenda to children so their 'conservation message' is taken to heart early.  When indoctrinated while young and impressionable, they hope those children will support the HSUS as future voters / donators.  The HSUS is no longer composed of soldiers for a noble cause.  They’re more like mercenaries who must create an enemy to assure their continued employment.  The modern HSUS is an animal rights organization masquerading as an animal welfare organization.  Supporting them is like supplying terrorists with money to hurt us.








The HSUS published this book {>>>} in 2001 - a persuasive political ploy disguised as a 'scientific report'.  It was freely distributed to all U.S. governmental regulatory bodies to sway them to help their cause.  This is how donation money sent to the HSUS is put to 'good' use.  The last paragraph of the entire 'study' sums up their position:

     "Finally, we recommend that [government] regulatory bodies put an end to the reptile trade:  State and local authorities are encouraged to ban the commercial collection of reptiles to protect wild populations of reptiles and ban the sale of reptiles as pets to the general public in order to protect human health..."


For more info on the dark side of the HSUS and PETA, go to http://www.animalscam.com .  Or read the book The Hijacking of the Humane Movement: Animal Extremism by Patti & Rod Strand.


IMPORTANT NOTE:   Don’t abandon the local Humane Society animal shelters in your own community – they’re still doing their commendable work as always. 


We have not suddenly become political activists.  This exposé is just an honest response to the attack the HSUS initiated upon all herp keepers.  We hope it may convince you to spread the word to friends and family.  Avoid doing anything that benefits the Humane Society of the United States, the reptile hobby and industry's new sworn enemy.  


- - -  Kathy Love / CornUtopia   &  Bill Love / Blue Chameleon Ventures


Our local news showed some people

who waited outside for 5-6 hours in freezing temps just to save maybe $50.  Lord have mercy.  I guess I'm thankful I don't need or want anything enough to do that!!


You're right about the me-me-me and it makes me sick.  People will kill each other for a dollar!! 


You confuse federal and local govt
Each state is supposed to govern themselves, not the federal government. Actually, it is unconstitutional for the federal government to even dictate laws to any state, which is why many states have now declared sovereignty from the federal government; they see the writing on the wall.

Taxes taken in by the states are supposed to be decided upon by the state how to use that money, including schools, law enforcement, etc..... NOT the federal government.

And yes, you would be able to defend yourself from foreign invaders because that is ALL the federal government is supposed to oversee in the first place, a strong military to defend our country against foreign invasion, which is a joke, considering they can't even defend our Mexico/US border!!!

You don't seem to understand that your government was NEVER to dictate to states what they do with their money, even if given money by the federal government; states are supposed to decide themselves how to best use the money..... federal government only says we'll give you the money but YOU have to do with it what we tell you to.

That is BIG brother mentality and it was never to be.......unfortunately, it is now worse than ever!!!
I type for a local mental hospital
and I go in and get the tapes and bring them home.  They don't use a big company for their transcription.  I do this as a side job actually.  The pay is much better than a big MT company as well.  I enjoy typing those type of reports as well. 
What?! She was reporting a local news story from
nm
Answer this question PLEASE. If the incompetence of the federal, state, and local
governments (especially federal because this is a national disaster) has nothing to do with race why was the response so slow?

Why is it that Bush is on the TV in the middle of hurricaines in Florida making appropriations for relief funds and when he DID not respond so abruptly even as New Orleans drowned in front of our eyes. I urge you to read the article I posted below A DIFFERENT AMERICA.

I think Bush and his office, the governor of Louisianna and the mayor of Louisianna (though I think he for one had good intentions) NO ONE, should have to wait on a permission slip to rush to the aid of Americas people.

I'm sorry, but the the govenor told us he didn't need the guard, story does not get anywhere with me because any competent president after hearing that NO was drowning with a good number of it's people in it would have immediately made it a national disaster. So again, if race didn't have anything to do with it, what is the reason?

I'm open minded and waiting for a good answer to this question.
I do believe Savage in this case, cuz announcements in the paper are the same way in my local area..
Where did I say anything else, I was just commenting on the announcement in the paper.  GEESH. 
Some educational advice. Go to your local hospital and city hall....sm
Ask them how births are recorded.  I think you will be surprised.  EVERYTHING is now computerized.  Even old birth records.
Yes - there was a young surgeon featured on one local TV program about this mess. SM
I didn't catch the first part of the segment, but he is having to think about joining the military medical corps because he had just opened his practice when the recession hit and can't pay his loans, and there aren't any openings in other practices around here now.
Who is your top democratic candidate?
Barack Obama is who I am rooting for, but I'd like to know what democrats are thinking about the other candidates.
Who do you think will get the Democratic nomination

And, what do you think the Super Delegates will do?


voting democratic



CI'm thinking about voting Democratic because I believe everything the main stream media tells me about the Presidential candidates.

I'm thinking about voting Democratic because English has no place being the official language in America.

I'm thinking about voting Democratic because I'd rather pay $4 for a gallon of gas than allow drilling for oil off the coasts of America.

I'm thinking about voting Democratic because I think the government will do a better job of spending my money than I could.

I'm thinking about voting Democratic because when we pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq , I know the Islamic terrorists will stop trying to kill us because they'll think we're a good and decent country.

I'm thinking about voting Democratic because I believe people who can't tell us if it will rain in two or three days, can now tell us the polar icecaps will disappear in ten years if I don't start riding a bicycle, build a windmill or inflate my tires to proper levels.

I'm thinking about voting Democratic because it's alright to kill millions of babies as long as we keep violent, convicted murderers on death row alive.

I'm thinking about voting Democratic because I believe businesses in America should not be allowed to make profits. Businesses should just break even and give the rest to the government so politicians and bureaucrats can redistribute the money the way they think it should be redistributed.

I'm thinking about voting Democratic because I believe guns, and not the people misusing them, are the cause of crimes and killings.

I'm thinking about voting Democratic because when someone with a weapon threatens my family or me, I know the government can respond faster through a call to 911 than I can with a gun in my hand.

I'm thinking abou t voting Democratic because oil companies 5% profit on a gallon of gas are obscene, but government taxes of 18% (federal and state) on the same gallon of gas are just fine.

I'm thinking about voting Democratic because I believe three or four elitist liberals should rewrite the Constitution every few months to suit some fringe element that could never get their agenda past voters.

I'm thinking about voting Democratic because illegal aliens are not criminals, are not sucking up resources through government aid, hospital services, education, or social services, but are just people trying to make a better life by coming to America illegally. We can't blame them for that, can we?

I'm thinking about voting Democratic because now I can now marry whatever I want, so I've decided to marry my horse.

I'm thinking about voting Democratic because they know best how to run a mortgage company like Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac. They will guarantee I get a low interest loan even if I don't have a job and can't pay it back.

I'm thinking about voting Democratic because I agree that Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac executives should get 10's of million dollars in bonuses, then leave and join a Democratic presidential candidate's campaign as his advisors.

Makes ya wonder why anyone would ever vote Republican, doesn't it?




You cant thank the democratic congress too.
nm
way to go democratic congress
nm
Can the Democratic Party Survive
http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/archive/s/shore/2005/shore022805.htm
But you don't do that. You only discuss the democratic past.

In order to smear it.


No talk about the 12 prior years of Reagan and Bush.


Democratic talking points 101. nm

Republicans and democratic are worlds apart
One party represents BUSINESS. the other PEOPLE. That is the bottom line.

You americans need to get your two parties together without the politicians around and figure out how to come to terms with your disagreements cuz you folks are on the same ship and it is sinking and only the rich have a paddle.

Want us Canadians to provide a neutral ground? We are very concerned about the runaway train that has become America. It is like a bad movie.
Exactly, that is the common thread in Democratic...
party these days. And the only way to end that stalemate in Waashington is for that, for lack of a better word...crap to stop. McCain and Palin are reaching across the aisle, saying they are willing to work with democrats to stop the stalemate...country first. McCain says he wants Democrats and Independents in his cabinet. Country first. This election is a no-brainer for this Independent. McCain/Palin.
'scuse me...have you read the democratic...
posts on this board?? lol.
My Lord, what do you expect from the Democratic rag, the
Washington Post? Give me a break and the rest of us here. Why don't you read some real new for a change?

Did you know that just a tiny bit of arsenic can make you deathly ill?
Impeached by a democratic majority?
What YOU smokin?? lol.
Tell that to the democratic congress - they are responsible
And while people are getting laid off left and write the democratic congress who gave the bail outs are not giving back any of the money. And the people who ran FM/FM are not giving back any of the money. And the money that was given for the bail outs but instead the people used it to take lavish vacations and put more money in their pockets are not giving it back, and the DEMOCRATIC congress is not enforcing that they should give it back.
58 +/- 2 democratic leaning indies =
jangled nerves over this one undecided seat. Cornyn is hedging no bets and preparing for the worst case scenario, rather than simply letting the state satisfy itself that it is sending the duly elected representative to Washington based on the most accurate vote count possible. Why is that such as scarey proposition? How much traction do you really think the obstructionists are going to have in the Senate anyway. Not all the pubs are onboard with administration sabotage. Some of them actually remember that their constituents expect them to get something accomplished and to wait until at 16 to 18 months before starting to campaign for their next race.
Democratic Hawk Now Sees War as a Mistake

Friday, November 25, 2005 - 12:00 AM


Permission to reprint or copy this article or photo, other than personal use, must be obtained from The Seattle Times. Call 206-464-3113 or e-mail resale@seattletimes.com with your request.


src=http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2005/11/24/2002645096.jpg


Rep. Norm Dicks voted in 2002 to back the war.


src=http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2005/11/24/2002645169.jpg

JIMI LOTT / THE SEATTLE TIMES, 2003


U.S. Rep. Norm Dicks, center, with military officers at ceremonies marking the opening of new facilities at Naval Station Bremerton in 2003.





Defense hawk Dicks says he now sees war as a mistake


By Alicia Mundy
Seattle Times Washington bureau


WASHINGTON — It was after 11 p.m. on Friday when Rep. Norm Dicks finally left the Capitol, fresh from the heated House debate on the Iraq war. He was demoralized and angry.


Sometime during the rancorous, seven-hour floor fight over whether to immediately withdraw U.S. troops, one Texas Republican compared those who question America's military strategy in Iraq to the hippies and peaceniks who protested the Vietnam War and did terrible things to troop morale.


The House was in a frenzy over comments by Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., who had called for the troops to leave Iraq in six months. In response, the White House initially likened Murtha, a 37-year veteran of the Marines and an officer in Vietnam, to lefty moviemaker Michael Moore.


Then a new Republican representative from Ohio, Jean Schmidt, relayed a message to the House that she said she had received from a Marine colonel in her district: Cowards cut and run; Marines never do.


During much of the debate, Dicks, a Democrat from Bremerton, huddled in the Democrats' cloakroom with Murtha, a longtime friend. Both men are known for their strong support of the military over the years. Now, they felt, that record was being questioned.


There was a lot of anger back there, Dicks said in an interview this week. It was powerful. I can't remember anything quite as traumatic as this in my history here.


Near midnight, he drove to his D.C. home, poured a drink and wondered how defense hawks like he and Murtha had gotten lumped in with peaceniks by their colleagues and the administration.


And he thought about all that had happened over the past couple of years to change his mind about the war in Iraq.


Voted to back Bush


In October 2002, Dicks voted loudly and proudly to back President Bush in a future deployment of U.S. troops to Iraq — one of two Washington state Democratic House members to do so. Adam Smith, whose district includes Fort Lewis, was the other.


Dicks thought Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and wouldn't hesitate to use them against the United States.


After visiting Iraq early in the war, Norm told me the Iraqis were going to be throwing petals at American troops, Murtha said in an interview this week.


Dicks now says it was all a mistake — his vote, the invasion, and the way the United States is waging the war.


While he disagrees with Murtha's conclusion that U.S. troops should be withdrawn within six months, Dicks said, He may well be right if this insurgency goes much further.


The insurgency has gotten worse and worse, he said. That's where Murtha's rationale is pretty strong — we're talking a lot of casualties with no success in sight. The American people obviously know that this war is a mistake.


Dicks, a member of the House Intelligence Committee, says he's particularly angry about the intelligence that supported going to war.


Without the threat of weapons of mass destruction (WMDs), he said, he would absolutely not have voted for the war.


The Bush administration has accused some members of Congress of rewriting history by claiming the president misled Americans about the reasons for going to war. Congress, the administration says, saw the same intelligence and agreed Iraq was a threat.


But Dicks says the intelligence was doctored. And he says the White House didn't plan for and deploy enough troops for the growing insurgency.


A lot of us relied on [former CIA director] George Tenet. We had many meetings with the White House and CIA, and they did not tell us there was a dispute between the CIA, Commerce or the Pentagon on the WMDs, he said.


He and Murtha tended to give the military, the CIA and the White House the benefit of the doubt, Dicks says. But he now says he and his colleagues should have pressed much harder for answers.


Norm ... has agonized


All of us have gone through a difficult period, but Norm really has agonized, Murtha said this week.


Murtha and Dicks were appointed to the House Defense Appropriations subcommittee in 1979, three years after Dicks first was elected to Congress. They rarely have disagreed, especially in their support of the military.


In October 2002, Dicks made an impassioned speech during the House debate over whether to authorize the president to send troops to Iraq without waiting for the United Nations to act.


Based on the briefings I have had, and based on the information provided by our intelligence agencies to members of Congress, I now believe there is credible evidence that Saddam Hussein has developed sophisticated chemical and biological weapons, and that he may be close to developing a nuclear weapon, Dicks said at the time.


By spring 2003, U.N. weapons inspectors said they hadn't found hard evidence of WMDs in Iraq. But Dicks remained convinced of Iraq's threat.


We're going to find things [Saddam] had not disclosed, he said shortly before the war began in March 2003. There is no doubt about that. Period. Underlined.


By June of that year, with no chemical, biological or nuclear weapons found, Dicks remained steadfast in his support for the war but called for a congressional inquiry into the intelligence agencies' work on Iraq. I think the American people deserve to know what happened and why it happened, he said at the time.


That same month, Dicks was upset when a good friend, Gen. Eric Shinseki, the Army chief of staff, was forced into retirement after telling Congress that the secretary of defense was not sending enough troops to win the peace.


Growing doubts


On July 6, 2003, Dicks awoke to read the now-famous New York Times opinion piece by former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, who had been sent on a CIA mission to investigate a report that Iraq had tried to buy nuclear materials in Africa.


Wilson wrote that he had found no evidence of such Iraqi intentions and criticized Bush for making the claim in his State of the Union address two months before the invasion.


That Joe Wilson article was very troubling, Dicks said.


Dicks grew somber about Iraq. Rep. Jim McDermott, who represents Seattle and had opposed the war from the start, talked with him about it.


Norm is a lot like Jack Murtha. These are guys with a somewhat different philosophy than me, McDermott said recently. This an extremely difficult time for them because they have to reassess what they were led to believe about prewar intelligence.


The White House maintains it did nothing to mischaracterize what it knew about Iraq and its weapons.


Dicks' private concerns became more public two months ago. At a breakfast fundraiser on Capitol Hill, Dicks surprised the guests with a tough talk against the war.


The White House last Friday called Dicks to gauge his support. House GOP leaders were pushing for a vote on a resolution they hoped would put Democrats on the spot by forcing them to either endorse an immediate troop withdrawal or stay the course in Iraq.


Dicks said he told the White House that their attack on Murtha was the most outrageous comment I've ever heard.


The resolution, denounced by Democrats, ultimately was defeated 403-3.


Dicks says the Pentagon should begin a phased withdrawal and leave some troops to help maintain order and train a new Iraq army. We've got to be very concerned that Iraq comes out of this whole, he said.


But he added, We can't take forever.


Some people say it takes eight to nine years to control an insurgency, Dicks said.


I don't think the American people will give eight to nine years, and I sure as heck won't.


Alicia Mundy: 202-662-7457 or amundy@seattletimes.com



Not standing up to the liberal Democratic party
That's for starters. Here's my short list:

1) Not a strong enough military operation in Iraq and Afhghanistan.
2) Too soft on immigration.
3) Witholding the known valid/verified intelligence that proves there were WMDs in Iraq. (I'll never for my life figure that out).
4) Not hiring Tony Snow sooner to show what absolute idiots are in the White House press corps.
5) Letting the U.N. change his stance on the Lebanon/Israel conflict.

I could go on, but I'm at work and I already know you will absolutely not agree with my perceived Bush mistakes, so I won't waste anymore of my time or breath.



And re not standing up to the liberal Democratic party:

Stand up to whom and why?  The Congress is run by Republicans.  Bush does whatever he wants, when he wants, regardless of what Congress or the courts deem to be legal or constitutional. 


He has already stood up to them by spreading propaganda that anyone who doesn't agree with him is either on the terrorist's side or a fascist.  If he gets really mad, he swiftboats them. 


This is the reason people want him to get warrants before spying on Americans.  A President with such a history of personal revenge can't be trusted to just go after the terrorists.  He can't be trusted not to spy on innocent Americans who don't agree with his policies.  He can't be trusted to have a good reason to spy.  He just can't be trusted, period.


None of the top tier of Democratic candidates will commit...
to having the troops out of Iraq during their 4 years.  I know some of you have posted that you would not vote for Hillary for that reason.  What if she is the candidate?  Second question...if none of them are going to end the war immediately and that seems to be a major issue for most of you...I assume you are going to vote for one of them anyway...whichever one gets the nomination?
All this is all well and good and right down the Democratic party line...
the fact is...a few months ago Joe Biden said: "I would be proud to be on a ticket with John McCain." Last night he attacked him. So...take your pick. He was lying then or he is lying now. He lied. Perhaps you are impressed by throwing friends under the bus, lying or whatever it takes to toe the party line. I am not. I think it shows marked lack of character. To each his own.

Questioning his experience is not a personal attack, spineless or otherwise. You could leave the spineless personal attacks on people who disagree with you to the side, it might make someone more willing to listen to your viewpoint. What I have heard him say in interviews, what he has said himself, plus the marked lack of foreign policy exposure and experience in his resume do cause me pause. Yes, I admit it. The fact that I fear he will fold like a house of cards if someone gets in his face is a concern. It really does not matter to me if you are sold on him...I am not. And that should not be the basis of an attack on me from you. THis is exactly what I am talking about. Obama supporters attack anyone who does not agree with them. Thank you for making my point.

By all means though...STAY LOYAL TO THE CAUSE OF THE PARTY. Friends under the bus, lie, whatever it takes. I get it.
Case in point...what a democratic view....NOT.
YOu have been exposed for what you are, and in typical spin, turn it on to someone else and make them the villain. You guys are like the Wizard of Oz...one head and lots of little bodies running around. :)
Who supports Obama? Everybody in the democratic party
it appears. I was a Clinton fan as I know she takes care of business and knows how to get things done in the Senate and Congress.

McCain and Palin will lead us to a supreme court nominee which will be a republican and we cannot afford that.
Tracks for both sides. Obama is more of the democratic same...
and John McCain has never been a toe the line Republican. Republicans will tell you that.

I post links most of the time. How is that twisting and manipulating words? How is that making something come out the way I want it to? Good grief. lol. If you see something that I post is twisted or manipulated, refute it. No one is stopping you. The best you seem to have is to attack me. Why is that the first line of democratic defense? Oh yes...the Alinsky method. If you can't refute....attack. lol.
Financial crisis a democratic scandal....sm


http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/09/16/financial-crisis-a-democrat-scandal/

Read all the comments underneath this, if you have time.




Democratic = surplus - Republican = debt
Based on Congressional accounting rules, at the end of his presidency Clinton reported a surplus of $559 billion.

After 8 years of Bush...As of September 2008, the total U.S. federal debt was approximately $9.7 trillion.
I'm voting democratic to relegate ignorance like this
su
Bush didn't do anything before it was not a democratic congress.
.