So lets do all tax cuts which have proven to be ineffective?
Posted By: sm on 2009-02-06
In Reply to: Yeah, the junk in that stimulus is really - unbelievable and cant be justified.nm
That trickle down crap doesn't work - or haven't you figured that out yet? Hmm, over 10 trillion dollars spent on Bush's watch and what did he accomplish? It sure as helll didn't trickle down but all the CEOs got nice bonuses. This crisis is Bush's doing - why don't you get that?
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Because MT has proven herself over and over and over
again to be a LIAR. So I've learned to doubt every single thing she says because she is a compulsive liar with no credibility.
I would believe my DOG over anything MT would say.
And as far as Nan having a *civil* long conversation with anyone, ESPECIALLY if MT was involved, I've never seen that happen anywhere on the Conservative board. They don't know what civility is. All they do is attack, bully, gang up and chase away those who don't agree with them.
Just trying to point that out to the liberals who believe that telling the truth is a GOOD thing and that constant lying is BAD.
I think it has been proven..(sm)
that with enough torture anyone will admit to anything. Coming out of Gitmo, I have to take that with a grain of salt.
No he has not proven anything. He still cannot
//
That has yet to be proven...(sm)
We'll have to wait until Israel lets reporters in there to find out the detaills on that. I'm sure by then they will have figured out some other fairy tale for the press.
However, just for the sake of arguement, let's say you are correct and that Hamas was operating from these locations. I still have a problem with that. Think about it this way:
Let's say that you have kids that go to school. One day a group of people show up going postal at the school. Should we just blow up the whole school so we can make sure we get the bad guys? According to your posts, I assume you would think this would be the appropriate response.
These are real people being killed over there that will mourn the loss of their children just as you would yours. The fact that it's not in our backyard doesn't make it any less real for the people living in this nightmare.
Nobody has proven me wrong.
But you've proven just what you are: Just another lying conservative. Maybe someday will come when we finally catch one telling the truth. You have no intention of leaving, and you know it. You live to spread your idiocy.
And as far as what you wrote on the Monitor board about people posting on the Conservative board, if someone did, I wasn't the person who did it.
Wouldn't surprise me a bit if it was YOU who did, though, just to start garbage. That's the way you CONS work. Just like when Bush's goons *leaked* the story about Iraq's *WMDs* in time for it to print on a Saturday, and the very next day, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld were all on the Sunday talk shows saying, *Just like the NYT said yesterday...*
You're not fooling anyone.
You all have proven Rush right ...
no meaningful dialogue, just name-calling.
Right on, Sam. And McCain has proven himself to
nm
Point just proven!
Over and over again on this forum.
Question....now that it has been proven...
that the democrats in Congress are responsible for this 700 billion bailout we are going to be on the hook for...and Obama has taken more in donations from them in his 4 years in the senate than most have in 30 years...you are still going to vote for him? That does not matter to you? Does not bring his decision making process seem a little suspect? I am not trying to start a fight....I am just trying to understand how that would not make you question whether he should be President.
You have just proven the point of the OP, being that
white pastors are never perceived as such. You may be too dense to recognize the bigotry and racism in the viewpoints of Falwell, Robertson, Hagee and their ilk, but for the rest of us outside the right-wing WASP Christian Evangelical inner circle, it is positively palpable. For example, what part of Hagee's pronouncements about Katrina victims is void of racism?
When every single Sunday sermon drills the same dogma week after week and year after year, it does not need to be posted on a website or have a fancy name attached to it to make it a philosophy or a theology. It is what it is.
Beyond that, simply stated, none of the hate patrol can present one shred of evidence that Obama holds black liberationist viewpoints except through their impotent guilt by association protestations. His life experience, his political career and his current campaign platform belie even the loudest shouting you canmuster.
You guys have been hawking this Black Liberationist spiel for nearly 2 years now and Obama is leading in the polls by double digits, dear. Nobody seems to be buying what you are selling. What does it take for you to understand that not only is it not working, but it is also transforming your candidate into somebody who has less than zero cerdibility, even on the most legitimate of campaign issues? By the way, most Americans know racism and hatred when they see it...and by the looks of your post, others can't even recognize it when it is coming out of their own mouths.
There are studies that have proven
that what FDR did during the great depression actually prolonged the duration of the great depression. Do we really need that?
The first thing I would do is fine all companies who hire illegal immigrants and then load em up and ship em back to Mexico. That would save us a buttload of money right there. Did I mention to ship illegal immigrants back? LOL!
that was proven to not be the case as well
@@
SO far he hasn't proven anything
nm
This last election has proven
that the majority of us do not bother to educate ourselves on a candidate or an issue. We just grab at something shiny: Ooh, ooh! That one speaks well and looks good!
In any election, if there are candidates or issues I don't know enough about to vote on (judgeships, etc.) I actually leave that item blank rather than just put just anybody's name in there! Candidates actually fight to have their name placed at the top, because they know that some voters will just select the first one they see. Or they go for name recogition, and vote for the one who'se spent the most on advertising. Horrifying to think this is how some candidates get elected.
In the election before that I was aghast when a friend that I thought was intelligent said of Bush/Kerry. ''We've tried it one way for four years. Time to try give somebody else a chance.'' When asked, she could not name any area in which Kerry was better; he was just ''different.'' Oh, well, if it's somebody else's turn.......
And that's the main problem with our political system. We seldom get a candidate that really inspires us and too often we just end up voting for the one we hate least, or the one whose name is listed first. Or we get bamboozled by flashy packaging with absolutely nothing inside.
So I have no idea how we make people pay attention and vote responsibly in order to change all this.
this is completely different. It is not proven
yet that Iran HAS nuclear weapon, it is an assumption. To just take the protest about the rigged election as justified reason to attack Iran because of their suspected hidden nuclear bomb arsenal,
is just idiotic. Do we apply again teh 'Weapon of Mass Destruction Theory?' Iran did not threaten yet to shoot missiles to Hawaii, wheres North Korea did and is testing its missiles for a while already.
Obama just cannot meddle or interfere into Iran's internal affairs, yet, don't you understand? It is not the US's business if the election was a fraud and the wrong president was elected.
And it is not the business of the US's to encourage people tocontinue with the protests. Even giving the protesters too much verbal support is dangerous as this will embolden them and the army will slaughter them and even THEN the US has no right to interfere, because it is not a direct threat to the US and the world. Only if Iran brings out its missiles, if it has any.
The US just cannot interfere or attack a sovereign country in defense of democracy and because it is the military superpower. Only if the country asks for it or the UN decides.
I wished Mousavi had won.
I am ignoring your bashing of Obama, to me it is again blah, blah, blah.
That's *innocent* until proven guilty...sm
I don't know which way it will go, but when you tell the truth your story never changes - his did over and over and over.
They have proven ties to Al Queda. nm
nm
In your dictionary - as limited as it has proven to be
x
Yeah, and McCain has at least proven he would
nm
Right on, Kaydie! -at least McCain has proven he
nm
It's a fake and will be proven in time....sm
Why then when asked where Obama was born his family couldn't agree on which hospital in Hawaii....because when you lie you can't keep facts straight that's why. Obama was born in Kenya.
Already proven but the myth continues. nm
.
The Palestinians have proven time and again
their preference for a one-state solution - a Palestinian state. Israel has made numerous concessions, agreed to everything they want, only to have new demands made before the ink is dry. All our administrations from Carter on have tried to broker a two-state agreement. Israel is justifiably tired of bargaining in good faith, giving up territory, agreeing to demands, only to find the finish line moved once again. Obama did not invent the concept of a two-state solution. He's just in office when Israel is saying ''enough of this crap, no more going through the motions.''
Hmmm...innocent until proven guilty....
you certainly don't think that about George Bush and Dick Cheney, do you? I don't see you asking fellow liberals not to make judgments until they are proven guilty by a jury of their peers...? LOL. Ahem. Think the hippocracy is showing there a little bit. I certainly don't think Kam is considering them innocent until proven guilty, nor are any of the rest of you by your posts. I believe she considers them guilty and impeachment a formality. So please stop with the noble innocent until proven guilty and that is the best system. You don't believe it across the board, so don't speechify. It rings hollow.
And what makes you think I have always voted a Republican ticket? I can tell you right now, I have not, especially in congressional races where I think the most difference is made.
There is nothing to say that Ron Paul would not be a great President. I threw his name out there because he is so radically different than any other Republican running and any Democrat running. Would not surprise me if he lost the Repub nomination and ran as an Independent, which would give disgusted folks such as myself and Kam a real alternative. But Kam is not disgusted with politics. She hates George Bush and she would not vote for a Republican no matter WHAT he or she said, she said as much. And that is what is wrong with politics today, as you have stated so many times and accused me of not wanting change because I said I would never vote for a Democrat. I said I would not vote for a pro abortion Democrat if I have an alternate choice, you are right. But, there are pro life Democrats and I have voted for some for congressional seats. And would continue to do so if I felt they were the most qualified person on the ticket. That is the reason I threw his name out. The only thing that goes against him being able to make any meaningful change is that Congress would hamstring him. If we really want change, we need an independent prez AND an independent congress. That won't happen this election cycle. That kind of change will take years. It could start with this one, and I think that is exactly what Pelosi is trying to avoid by not letting an impeachment go forward right now...too much might come out.
I am not victimized. If anyone is victimized it is poor Kam with that virulent hatred for George Bush. It sounds like it consumes every waking moment. Good grief. I go on about my daily life just like anyone else does, and in the grand scheme of things, WHOever is elected President has his/her work cut out for him/her, we all know that. If it is a Democrat, all I know for absolutely sure is my taxes are going to go up and social programs won't be reined in, they will just get money thrown at them, and if that doesn't fix them, we will get more programs. It has happened every time. And if there is anything in this country that needs to be fixed, that's it. That is another priority for me, and yes, my congresspeople could attest to that from the sheaves of paper they have received from me.
If it is a Republican, what happens depends upon which one it is. If it is Guiliani, I don't see much difference in he and most Democrats and I would have to weigh him against whatever Dem gets the nomination. If it is Romney, I think the man can balance the budget and get runaway spending under control, because say what you want about the man, he is a financial genius and the government is the biggest business there is, and frankly it needs to be run like one. So, if he is the nominee, most likely he will get my vote, because I think it is HIGH time that someone starts to run the government like a business and gets runaway spending under control, starting with social programs. That is so broken it screams to be fixed.
If nominee is Thompson, he will get my vote. For many reasons, the most important of which is putting power back in the states that the feds have stolen over the years. States have demonstrated time and time again they administer their affairs much better than when the Feds get into it. And states may be able to put enough pressure on their reps that Congress might actually do something about that, even if there is a Dem majority. One can only hope. Ron Paul believes that too, and I am in agreement with him on that. We certainly don't need as much centralized power in DC as we have right now. I will vote for the man (or woman) I feel most qualified and most closely follows my vision for the country, just like I would hope everyone else does.
Kam is disgusted, but it is more about her healthy hatred for the MAN George Bush, and the MAN Cheney which has nothing to do with politics and one need only read her posts about them to see that. Which is all well and good, and that is her right and I would argue for her right to say so. Her crusade is to punish George Bush and I don't really think that is going to cure what is wrong with politics in this country. If she thinks Obama is the answer, then I would think her time and energy would be better spent trying to get him the nomination and the election rather than crusading to punish someone on his way out anyway. But that is just me.
Yes, a lot of things about politics and about the way this country is going is disheartening. I do the best I can with my vote and working for whatever candidate I choose to support. Since I am not a rich person I sure can't throw much money at campaigns, but I do what I can.
As to the law is the law and innocent until proven guilty by a jury of your peers...fine. Does that mean if Bush is impeached and not convicted all would be forgiven on the basis of the law is the law? All of you who are calling for his head would go quietly away because he was judged innocent by his "peers?" ROFL. I don't THINK so.
I would agree with you that we the people of America need to change the way politics are played. But before THAT can happen, the minds of Americans have to change. And the way to do that is stop the bitterly partisan way of thinking (ANY party) and if these political boards, and all the political boards and blogs and sites on the internet are ANY indication, that is not going to happen anytime soon.
Does not mean I am not a happy person, does not mean I am going to slink into a closet and into a depression if Clinton or Obama become President or Paul or WHOEVER becomes President. Life will go on, the chips will fall, and we shall see what happens. Same thing if Guiliani or Romney or Thompson or whoever is elected. It is what it is. Noble ideas and good intentions are wonderful things. But if our Congress cannot drop partisanship long enough to do what is best for the country (if they even know what that is anymore, or care), then it doesn't matter who is President. And I don't know how we can really expect them to if we as rank and file Americans are unwilling to...what goes around comes around, and around, and around, and around....until someone gets off the merry-go-round and pulls the plug. Someone a lot more important, sadly, than kam, than me, or you, piglet. And for the right reasons. And therein lies the rub.
Remember that song, I Need A Hero? Well...America needs one right about now. :)
It has been proven that his birth certificate is authentic. nm
.
It has NOT been proven his certificate is authentic - see note
What he has provide is a computer generated copy - not the original type written certificate typed in a typewriter that was used in 1961 (there were no computers back then), and it is NOT authentic. What part of that don't you understand. The people who said it was authentic is the Annenberg foundation who is connected with Ayers and ACORN - hence, they are tied in and supporting Obama.
This has not been verified otherwise the supreme court would not be issuing an order that it be presented. There is something fishy about the whole issue especially when Obama legally had the records sealed so nobody could see the certificate.
The only ones who will not see this is the Obamabots. Open your eyes - you know, if it's found that he is inelligible to be President then Biden will become President (which is who I wanted for President in the first place and we'll see who he picks as VP).
The issue needs to be resolved and at least now we have a supreme court justice wanting to see the original type written certificate and not a computer generated certificate created by a group who is supporting Obama.
You must be against Michele Obama, then too....she's a proven racist...
and no, I will not tell you what I mean, because if you don't remember, yet again, selective memory, and it was explained away.
But make no mistake. Michele Obama is a racist and a bigot. Married to the Barack Obama.
You will just excuse her, like everything else Obama
tax cuts. oh, really?
I thought I was the only one who knew this. If tax cuts expire, we get honked! Duh! That's more $ out of our pockets!
Can someone explain why they want to have a lower salary? All I ever hear around here is how our paychecks continue to dwindle. If Obama gets elected, plan on an even smaller check!
How can this be so hard to figure out?
pay cuts
Where are you seeing this information so I can read this?
I see that there are tax cuts in there -
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090202/ap_on_go_co/congress_stimulus
Tax Cuts
I really think if we had had the tax cuts the last 8 years that we had WITHOUT all the additional spending, we would have been fine. I don't think it was the tax cuts that didn't work, but we spent way more than the tax cuts could help.
With that line of thought, spending more definitely isn't going to help.
Maybe all of the politicians that have 5 or 6 houses (yes, including Mccain) should sell all of their extra fluff and try to pay back some of our deficit. You know, live like regular hard-working American people. I mean really, they got us here, because they don't ever listen to what the regular people say!
Like that'll ever happen!
Tax Cuts
President Barack Obama ordered the U.S. Treasury on Saturday to implement tax cuts for 95 percent of Americans, fulfilling a campaign pledge he hopes will help jolt the economy out of recession.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/UKNews1/idUKTRE51K1P320090221
Of course, those of you on the right who despise President Obama certainly do not have to accept these tax cuts. You are welcome to stay at your current tax rate in protest.
So much for tax cuts for 95%
of us. What a joke. Obama wants a cap and trade green tax.......do you realize how many people that will hit hard. Gas prices will be higher, grocery prices will go up, utility bills with skyrocket. This isn't just for the rich. This will hit everyone!!! Obama himself said that energy costs would skyrocket.....he said that during his campaign. I'm all for our environment, but this isn't the time to do this. This isn't going to help us at all. This is going to hit all consumers.....including low class and middle class consumers.....not just the rich. So this BS of providing tax cuts for 95% of Americans is nothing but a distraction for the Kool-Aid drinkers. He is like an illusionist....gets you focusing on one hand so we can't see what he is doing with his other hand.
tax cuts
Did anyone actually see a larger check beginning April 1st? I know I did not. I am paid hourly for 40 hours and my check was SMALLER by almost $50. Is this an anomaly or did my payroll dept screw up or am I not the only one who experienced this? Just curious.
As proven by the Republican majority in the Senate. Yeehaw! nm
where are the cuts coming from?
who is losing out ESPECIALLY when he has all these plans for additional government programs?
Thanks for posting this - I think it cuts thru the
thanks
The problem with the tax cuts is that
they only work when the government stops spending wasteful money. Instead they are giving us tax cuts AND still spending money. This bill spends more than anything. I don't see where you get the OP was racism. I too am doubtful of this stimulus package and it has nothing to do with what color President Obama is. We can criticize our president as we have always been able to do in years past. Why has this changed? I'm sick and tired of people hating Obama because he is black but I'm also sick and tired of hearing how the people who criticize him are only criticizing him because he is black. Either way....it is racism BS. STOP IT!
If we go back and look at the last 8 years, Bush's tax cuts didn't help because government was STILL spending. Bush was not a dictator any more than Obama is. Government as a whole contributed to our downfall. I blame them all and I tend to keep an eye on the whole lot....not just Obama.
The problem with the tax cuts is that
they only work when the government stops spending wasteful money. Instead they are giving us tax cuts AND still spending money. This bill spends more than anything. I don't see where you get the OP was racism. I too am doubtful of this stimulus package and it has nothing to do with what color President Obama is. We can criticize our president as we have always been able to do in years past. Why has this changed? I'm sick and tired of people hating Obama because he is black but I'm also sick and tired of hearing how the people who criticize him are only criticizing him because he is black. Either way....it is racist BS. STOP IT!
If we go back and look at the last 8 years, Bush's tax cuts didn't help because government was STILL spending. Bush was not a dictator any more than Obama is. Government as a whole contributed to our downfall. I blame them all and I tend to keep an eye on the whole lot....not just Obama.
Stem cell research has no proven cure rate.
I remember years and years ago when animal experimentation was being protested. I saw this fellow who was a soap opera actor. He was crying and crying because they wanted to stop torturing animals to find cures. His son had diabetes and he said they were THIS CLOSE to finding a cure. that had to be at least 25 years ago. Millions of animals have died and there is no cure for diabetes. So when does it end?
Wow, you have just proven my point with such a nasty slam, you knew exactly that I was referring to
thankfully has been translated into the King's English, as I, too, never found the time to learn the old languages, but if you look into any bookstore, you can pick up a copy, best seller, very easy to read and follow with an open heart. Why the nasty slams, do they stem from some very frayed, exposed nerves that come from trying to defend the indefensible? Mr. Bush is a very nice, Christian man in my point of view, I would probably love to meet him, but he made an abdomination out of the office of the presidency, and I am just hoping and praying for a return to respect, decency, hope, altruism, etc for this country. But if the haters have their way, it will never happen, a house divided against itself really will fall, and we can all continue to argue and ridicule. Really sad.
Bush Tax Cuts Will Expire
Don't blame me, it's the plan, as Dems refuse to keep it going. Also, Nancy Pelosi is backed into a corner, so is only saying she'll consider drilling in the US. It's the truth. She won't. Just watch it play out. Pelosi has the power to NOT bring items to the floor, and she will. She & the Dems are beholden to moveon.org, etc. George Soros has even far more power than Pelosi. Again, do your research. He's the one who was behind legalization of "medical" marijuana in CA, just to name a few.
Has anyone thought about the Presidency, House, & Senate all being one party?
Whether it's R or D, it's not a good thing for Americans!
Incidentally, I'm not a fan of McCain or Bush.
that knife cuts both ways
I am reluctant to say it but...biden wasn't the only one. Palin got in her fair share, too. Take a look at "fact check." They both spun things their own way. That's what is so very sad. They all lie and expect us to swallow their crap like it's gospel and they leave people knowing we can't trust anyone in our own government. I think people now vote not for someone they actually like (because we can't trust them) but for whoever will be the lesser of 2 evils.
Sorry Sam, but the Bush cuts were only for those over $250K nm
not us peons
tax cuts?? just look at the table at the bottom
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/senator_obamas_four_tax_increa.html
I heard him say that the tax cuts would precede
no definite timetable on the increases. I was particularly happy to see the emphasis on jobs in generally speaking, relief to the middle class as his obvious priority.
Stimulus versus tax cuts
Stimulus means SPENDING
Non-refundable tax rebates means every $1.00 spent creates $1.02 in economic activity. 2 freaking cents (makes sense to the pubs.....I guess)
Infrastructure - every dollar spent equals $1.59 in economic activity (bridges, roads, etc.)
Food stamps (which the pubs want to cut out of the bill) - every dollar spent equals $1.73 in economic activity. This is the single most productive stimulus we have. Food stamps will get SPENT, unlike tax rebates.
If the pubs have their way, the bill will be 42% tax cuts which will not benefit job creation or improve the economy. They want to fail. Why? And you all call your senators to support this? If it gets pushed through like this, you have only yourselves to blame when everything goes to helll. You can't blame Obama for this cluster.
Well lets see
try having a daughter wandering around like a ghost and a 2-year-old grandson wondering where his daddy is. Try having to explain to a 2 yo why daddy is never coming back. Yeah your right, the holidays are not great around here this year as I am sure they are not great for a lot of families who have lost someone in Bush's miserable war. So why dont you and Writer go natter elsewhere and let the grownups talk here.
lets see her
Okay, let's have Mrs. Palin on the interview shows. I want to see her interviewed by Bob Shieffer, Mat Lauer, Andrea Mitchell, George Stephanopoulous, Meet the Press, etc. We saw that she can really deliver a written speech well. I want to hear her personal views on foreign affairs and improving the economy. She has experience in Alaskan news, so I will expect a camera-ready, polished performance.
Lets all say............
Obama doesn't have any experience, executive or foreign!!!! And yet, he's running for President.
At least Palin knows what executive experience is, which is more than Obama has.
Oh lets s/m
We need to lighten up around here. I'll start a thread and then I really have to get busy.
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