Thanks, very kind and thoughtful of you to point that out....sm
Posted By: ms on 2008-12-09
In Reply to: Hate to break this to you, but the male page thing.... - Republican Mark Foley. nm
I must have been thinking of the democrat they compared him to at the time, Gerry Studds.
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Very nice, thoughtful, kind considerable post. sm
Also very small and closed minded. It's your way or no way.
I really wish you guys were nicer, but it doesn't seem to happen, does it?
Do I need some kind of motive to post what I thought was a good read..and your point is..
xx
Very thoughtful post...
....and I too, have tried to be objective, and listen to all sides.
But what I come away with, is this:
1. Economy. Neither one knows much about how it works. Obama was just a lot of rhetoric again last night (so my husband said, as I had to work). But if you really, really listen to him, he and Michelle are all about class warfare and class envy, and being for the little guy, when they are the big guy, and really on the opposite side of most of the people who think that they can "save" them in all things and make them completely dependent on the govt for work, jobs, healthcare, etc. That's a welfare state, and I DO NOT want a govt who has control over every aspect of my life. Give me tax cuts across the board for all, not just the poor and middle class (the poor don't pay taxes anyway, so really, they're not getting a tax break from nothing, are they?). Wait and see if you only tax the rich more..they alrady pay most of the taxes anyway...but there go the jobs for the poor and middle class, if the wealthy can't afford to stay in business....Tax cuts for all is proven to stimulate all aspects of the economy. More taxes, on just the rich, will not.
2. Foreign affairs. Picking Biden was a mistake. While trying to compensate for his own lack of experience, he picks someone with experience...but he is more of the same in Washington....when Obama is supposed to be about change...I don't think I need to explain that one..
3. Health care...yeah, it's a mess, but keep the govt out of it, please. It'll be worse, much worse if they are involved. Socialized medicine does not work.
4. Iraq. They're kicking us out anyway, and we're leaving anyway, so for Obama to say he will get us out of Iraq, is a non-issue, because it is going to be happen without him, and the next prez will be bringing most of them home anyway.
5. I do feel we are safer post 9/11. Bush has kept us safer than you or I will ever know. But truly, I do not want a president who will "talk" to our enemies, and make them see reason. Obama doesn't feel like we're threatened by any of these terrorists, and he is wrong. And you don't talk to terrorists.
6. No, being imprisoned in a POW camp does not make you qualified to run a country. But the character that shapes and defines you from that experience, does. He was a leader when he refused to be granted release early, and insisted on every POW to be released before him in the order they were captured. That took courage, and character.
I believe McCain has more strength of character than Obama.
Yes, I agree with you that Obama seems like a good, family man, that says that he has only our best interests at heart. That's doesn't make him ready to lead a country. And I shudder to think of a more socialist welfare state, that he wants to put us all in.
Actually, your post here is very thoughtful...sm
and quite frankly, these days on this board, it's all a big joke to a lot of the democrats, you must agree with me on that one. What they see as jokes, and crude comparisons, usually are just plain crude, and are quite free with their zingers. I was trying to stay with the Halloween season, as I believe that last one from them was something about pig masks and lipstick for halloween. But I digress. My post was meant as a joke, but obviously not taken as one. My apologies to whoever mistook me.
But seriously, though, almost anytime there is a serious debate here, there's a few women on this board, with, shall we say, slight leftward leanings, who swoop down and ridicule the republican posters. Just watch...they are waiting to descend as oon as they see my post.....
They did it to me last night. Why would I want to engage anyone in that kind of senseless attack
As for your thoughtful post, I disagree with most of it, although I am polite enough to allow you your views.
Freedom to choose, freedom to post, freedom to be kind, freedom for hope and change.....
I'm not a rich republican. But I sure want to be able to think for myself, and work for myself, and take care of myself. I don't want any part of the socialism reform that Mr. Obama wants to bring about. I say no to big government. I say no to tax cuts that are really just a one time rebate to the poor, and then everything else will be hiked.
I say help people to help themselves. Don't keep them down on the "so called" welfare plantation. Enable them to help themselves, not take care of them from cradle to grave.
I applied for unemployment once, in my early 20s. It was an extremely horribly feeling, putting myself in the hands of someone who got to decide if I was telling the truth, and deserved to have unemployment. Much as I imagine it feels for those who have to apply for welfare, and social services.
But there are programs there for those that need them now. Those that need them, can have those services. We don't need bigger, and more of them.
Health reform? Yes, health care needs reforming. But social medicine doesn't work. Ask all the people in Canada that die before they can get in to see their specialist. Ask all the MS patients who can only have one drug prescribed that is covered under their social programs...they have to pay for everything else out of their pocket. I just did a tape on that very thing...shocking how long one has to wait for health care in a social society.
Social societies doesn't work.
Just look at your history.
actually your thought is very thoughtful...
I have been a Democrat for as long as I canb remember, and at the age of 51 years I find myself no longer wanting to be a Democrat, and I certainly do not want to be Republican. There are many valid points in your post; they make a lot of sense. I see this country going straight to the highest bidder; we are quickly becoming a Third World country and it's heartbreaking. Many of us here come from a background of hardworking, honest families, our parents raising us with what they had, and honestly, most of them did not have much. I too am extremely fristrated at the fact that some people on assistance fare better than the most of us who get up, rain or shine, to do what's expected - WORK. I know people on assistance who have said 'why work when I don't have to?..wtf!!?!?!?!!?
A good friend of mine who is a Social Worker has related to me time and time again that it makes her so upset and angry to have people come into her place of work getting assistance who are driving new cars, living in better housing than she is, etc. I too could go on and on but in my many years of living and paying taxes - SOCIAL PROGRAMS ARE INDEED A FORM OF SLAVERY and have hindered more than helped. I was a young mother and I was on assistance for only three years, and in that three years I did go to school, get training to become a MT and with the grace of the one above - WORKED. I also have MS; have had it since 1990 and if I did not have the health plan I have, my Avonex would cost $1,200/month. My MS is progressing but I am working but in Jan 2009 with the advent of voice recognition, my job will be no more. I was even told by my neurologist that I am not 'sick' enough to be placed on Social Security Disability; so I wonder what will happen when I no longer have a job, cannot afford my meds? It's frightening to say the least but I just think its criminal that someone who does not want to work can go to the nearest county assistance office and get help when I know I would be given the 3rd degree if I needed help. There is a LOT wrong with THAT
Oh, it was thoughtful alright............
not much intelligence involved though. All the run around speeches he gives for those who refuse to see it, just are nothing more than he says one thing and completely intends to do another. It's not that hard to hear for those of us who aren't falling for that Obama love fest you have going.
Wow, what an intelligent answer, and thoughtful.
nm
Wow, thanks so much for that post, really thoughtful and true!!.....nm
nm
Thoughtful post. What bothers me is that religious
nm
Really, really good points, just shows how complicated it all is! provocative thoughtful post, than
nm
I think BB has a point here in that the main point on the board is political discussion, and let'
face it, there is SO MUCH going on right now, changes, problems, disasters, and so much debate on what should/could be done, but so many tims the political discussion disintegrates in a finger-pointing, name-calling exercise, spouting religion all over the place. Yeah, our spiritual beliefs are dearly held and we would all strive to be the best we can be, and do whatever we can whatever the ideology is, but sometimes I wonder, since we have a board EXPRESSLY for Faith isuues, where relgious debates/discussions/forums, etc are welcome, why does THIS board have to be turned into RELIGION BOARD PART II, especially if one ideology wants to dominate or ridicule/condemn those who come on here for lively inteligent discussion, debate of issues in Congress and in our lives, and just want their beliefs held separately? CNN is not EWTN or any other Christian network, and there are constant informative, bright, lively, balanced discussions from all over the political spectrum on the credentialed news stations, as well as C-Span, but they are not constantly hiding behind a cross, rosary, bible, star of David, or whatever....can we not strive to do the same and put religious debate on the Faith board?? Just a thought to ponder, MHO, it might work beter, who knows?
is the the starting point or the end point for the middle class?
x
I answered your post point-by-point and
all you can come up with is a lame tit-for-tat? Can you provide some sort of substantive response that would argue against the point I am trying to make here? Of course not.
Please show me what part of my post reflects bigotry or ignorance? I have made a few statements based on my own life experience, rather than the hook-line-and-sinker method of forming my world view. Then the impotence of your suicide bomber reference was buried under concrete evidence of informed, researched and factual data that would suggest an oppressed, occupied, half-starved population does not have the upper hand when it comes to defending themselves against Israel's US-bankrolled arsenal of pain, misery, death and destruction. They are just a tad out-gunned, wouldn't you say?
I answered your post point-by-point and
all you can come up with is a lame tit-for-tat? Can you provide some sort of substantive response that would argue against the point I am trying to make here? Of course not.
Please show me what part of my post reflects bigotry or ignorance? I have made a few statements based on my own life experience, rather than the hook-line-and-sinker method of forming a world view. Then the impotence of your suicide bomber reference was buried under concrete evidence of informed, researched and factual data that would suggest an oppressed, occupied, half-starved population does not exactly have the upper hand when it comes to defending themselves against Israel's US-bankrolled arsenal of pain, misery, death and destruction they employ in order to "secure" themselves.
The Palestinians are just a tad out-gunned, wouldn't you say? This might just account for the lop-sided fatalities/injuries ratios between the Israelis and the Palestinians. In closing, it is worth noting that even with the advantage of all those terrorist toys and tools our tax dollars have bestowed upon them, security and peace of mind just seem to be further and further beyond their reach. Wonder why that is?
Looks kind of pro-war to me.
Everything below is from their official, sanitized website, but for the real view of this group read their forum which includes lots of photos of firearms, many with children alongside them.
________________
"War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-- John Stuart Mill
(From the Mission portion of the website):
War IS an ugly thing, but as long as nations and leaders exist that detest freedom, sometimes it is the only way to secure a lasting peace. Most leftist anti-war protesters and pundits don't understand this. They state that this use of force is always unnecessary -- that war, ANY war, is never good. Some of them, born into the luxury of American freedom, believe that liberty can exist passively, that somehow the world's natural state will always settle into utopian harmony. Others, in an attempt to absolve themselves from the unearned guilt they harbor living in a nation of prosperity and wealth, try to buy morality on the cheap by pronouncing themselves for the 'good'. To them, the derivation of the 'good' is based on a simple, yet peculiar standard: the powerful and competent are wicked, while the feeble and impotent are innocent - regardless of the context. That is why they defend Iraq instead of America, and the Palestinian "resistance" instead of Israel.
"
kind of OT
Do any of you watch Survivor? I love that show. I think Im in pretty good shape but there is no way I could survive for a month on an island like they do but I like to watch and make believe that I could (smile). Snakes and alligators and bugs..YIPES.
Seems kind of sad
Don't know who you are referring to but I suppose all countries have residents who don't wish it well but I assume that statistically they would be a very tiny minority as really, why would they live in a place they wish to see destroyed? Seems silly.
This country seems to be unable to educate itself about the nature of our foe. We rely on leaders who seem to flaunt their ignorance about the middle eastern culture. So perhaps you are right, there are those who wish us harm.....by utilizing repeatedly the same failed techniques/agendas that as you stated, continue to stoke the fires of hate that have been burning for a very very long time -- the agendas of ignorance and unwillingness to learn from history. As long as this runaway ignorance prevails our soldiers will continue to die along with the Iraqi civilians and our world will become less safe.
It is kind of sad, really....
As virulent a Bush hater and advocate for pulling out of Iraq immediately that Murtha is, for him to say what he said, and the fact that you don't give it a bit of creedence is a pretty sad thing, piglet. And you can bet if they had picked and chosen spots in Baghdad to show him, he would have been on the Senate floor saying so. He sure hasn't been shy about castigating and condemning to this point. You just absolutely are unwilling to accept ANYthing positive, even from a Bush-hating pull out of Iraq now Democrat. WOW. 
SM is kind of right
There is a world of heartache ahead in the very near future. In case you haven't been following the trend, there is one church that has been advising its members for over 100 years to stock pile food and supplies, be self-sufficient, and otherwise make nice with the world. The holocaust is coming, but there isn't going to be some saving-grace rapture first. The righteous people will collect into specific locations to survive while the unrighteous have a slug fest and kill each other off. Its very real and it is likely going to be within this lifetime.
that is kind of a
creepy thought for you to be fixated on. EEEWWW.
Kind of the same ol same ol
My understanding is if you used to be a Muslim and then change (or say you have changed for whatever reason) that is a big problem for them. I've known for a long time that OBL would put out threats and he has.
This goes to prove that he has more to worry about from the outside than within the US.
You are so so kind - thank you
Thank you for your post. I know what you mean about feeling stuck.
My dad. He lives in CT. He was working for Foxwoods Casino since the day it opened. When they were first talking about building the Casino back in 1986 (I think that was the year). He received a letter from the Indian tribe asking if he would like to be a poker dealer (they paid for training and meals). At that time he was unemployed and could not find work anywhere (he was in the Army during the Gulf War and when that ended the military "dumped" thousands and thousands of people and he found himself jobless, homeless, and hopeless. Then he received the letter and accepted and he was the third person to be hired to work at the Casino. While he worked there after he had an illness because he worked in an environment filled with cigarette smoke, so they transferred him to a department (marketing I believe) and he has worked there ever since. He loved his job sooooooo much. When I talked to him at Thanksgiving he said he was going to take a computer class (he said he doesn't even know what the on button looks like on a computer. HA HA.) He said he was learning the basics of email and stuff, but the last time I talked to my sis she said he tried checking his email from her computer but didn't know how to do it, so not sure how the computer class went.
I know he's working with some guy at the unemployment office, but my dad said he's going nuts not having a job to go to and spend the day at. He is checking the local stores (greeter, bagger, cashier or whatever they need). I'll check on the AARP program and send him some information. He's talking now about possibly having to sell his truck so he will have some money for food. I wish I could help him out more, but with one income we are barely making it ourselves, and my dad is a kind of proud person and not sure if he would accept any money from his kids.
He does tell me that we are at the bottom so it can only go up from here. Thank you very much for your suggestions and care.
Thank you for the kind words.
I agree with everything you said.
I think that lumping people together and making gross inaccurate generalizations does nothing but prevent any intelligent discourse from occurring, and that's very sad because these issues are very serious. Our very ability to keep BREATHING may be in jeopardy, particularly if we don't start concentrating on our own safety. Bush has made Iraq much less safe place to be, and he hasn't done much to make the United States a safe place to be. If we truly NEED our military someday to protect US in a homeland attack, where will they all be?
What also worries me is that our enemies might consider this a bilateral "religious" war. They already believe it is, yelling and effecting "Jihad." But the current focus on one particular brand of Christianity in this country -- not religion in general, but one particular BRAND of Christianity -- makes me wonder if Bush himself doesn't think this is a religious war. The fact that he might think so is what scares me the most, as history tell us they are the most deadly, bloody wars of all. I personally don't want the U.S. to be known as a "Christian" nation. One of the things I love the most about this country is the freedom that we're SUPPOSED to have to worship freely, and I will personally oppose anyone who tries to take that away from us.
It's sad that tolerance and respect aren't in more people's hearts and souls.
Thanks, that's kind of what I thought...
dede
I responsed in kind. NM
Kind of off topic
Do any of you ever watch subtitle South Korean shows? Out here in CA, we have a channel that is for mainly Indian/Asian shows and I gotta tell ya, I have gotten to like the South Korean mini series..they last about 18 shows, twice a week..They are so good and have made me understand the Asian culture so much..I have a Japanese friend and I was astonished when I went to her home, you take your shoes off and sit on the floor for eating, sleep on the floor..all the things I thought were in the past..Plus, a big bonus, at least I think so, Asian guys are so cute. Hey, conservatives, if you are gonna attack me for this post, save it..okay? IMO, learning about others will keep us alive and not bombing each other.
wow the holidays must not be kind to you
yikes
Yup....Nancy is one of a kind...
let us sincerely HOPE.
Ok, kind of understand now
Thanks for the article. I understand it a little better, but boy, can they make the process any more confusing? Seems like there could be an easier way to do politics.
Kind and gracious?
Let's see....how many thousands of innocent people died in Iraq? If that is your definition of kind and gracious, then you are disturbed.
Maybe the kind that has 3 kids
already and the 4th pregnancy could put her life in peril. Does she allow her other children to go motherless?
Maybe the kind who underwent extensive testing and was told that her child would be born limbless or so developmentally delayed that any kind of life would be miserable?
Maybe the kind who was raped and does not want to bear the child of a rapist, whether she would be able to put the child up for adoption or not.
A woman's body is her body. No one should have the right to tell her what to do with it. There are many reasons to have an abortion. I personally feel that in the above cases, an abortion is a reasonable option. I certainly wouldn't wish any of the scenarios above on anyone. Outlawing abortion in general is wrong. If you want to prevent it from being used as a form of birth control, then by all means put limitations on it, but don't outlaw it completely. Sometimes it is the only choice.
Not pro-abortion but definitely pro-choice. There is a difference.
How about a thought of a different kind
Would like to hear your opinions on this one.
What if Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy, and other mass murders or the people that kidnap and kill innocent children had been aborted. Would have saved a lot of heart ache with the victims and their family.
Okay, I know you will probably say nobody knew before they were born that they would have done that, but what if there was a test that could be done that would definitely without a doubt, 100% proof to be able to tell if the baby was going to be someone like them. Then what would your stance on abortion be.
That was kind of pathetic.
I'm reminded daily on this board, how most democrats refuse to allow any opinion other than their own, without some form of negative name calling or put down.
Most of you dems are downright mean and nasty.
I thought you were the party of hope, change, love, and social equality for everyone.
Seems if one is republican or in the middle, leaning to the right, you have no rights at all, in you dems' minds.
Unbelievable.
Kind of a low blow...
Kind of a low blow,don't you think, and had nothing to do with politics.
Christians as much or more charitable work in this country than anyone else does. And not because the government is taking it out of our checks and redistributing it. We do it without being forced to. It is not unChristian to want the government to stay out of our pocketbooks any more than they already are. If there are those of you who think that we are not taxed enough and the government is not doing enough in programs, then establish a private foundation and fund it yourselves and dole it out to whoever you feel need it. Christian organizations all over the world do it daily. Don't depend on the government to do it, and don't double dip on those of us who take care of the poor because we feel an obligation to, privately, not have the government take it from us and unilaterally decide who is most deserving of it.
At least you were kind about it, oldtimer....sm
The three dems above you, are not kind at all.
It's the kind of "democracy" we have
been force-fed for eight years. And your question is?
And this is exactly the kind of attitude
that I feel will ruin us if Obama is elected. Oh...if you don't want to pay your fair share.....just don't make as much. Why should people feel like they have to lower their income. It will make hard working people not want to work hard because the government just takes what they earn. Then you have the people who don't make anything and are living off of the government and that number will grow. The more government assistance given, the more they want and the more they will take. It will make spending for these programs outrageous. Why should we enable people to mooch off of the government?
I understand there are people who legitimately need help. People who are truly disabled and can't work. However, there are many others who are literally just mooching so they don't have to work.
I have to think of MY future. I have two kids who will go through college. One boy is a freshman now so college really isn't too fair away. I have a house I'm paying for. I have a special needs child that requires more of my money. I want to put my hard earned money back for my kids and myself for a rainy day. I don't want it taken from me and given to people who I don't know and who I don't know whether they truly need it or are just lying and mooching off of the government.
The bottom line is this, making more money is an incentive to work hard. You take their money away and give to people who don't work hard and what does that show.....it shows that you don't have to work hard because the government will pick of the tab and it shows the hard workers....why bother. I don't want that for my country. I don't want my kids raised in that kind of life thinking that hard work doesn't pay off.
That's exactly the kind of debate he wants..
no questions asked...wonder if he still has to pay the teleprompter guy? No town hall meetings, can't handle the real public asking him unscripted questions....umm, errr, wellll, ahhhh, hmmm....
What kind of Christian
I have been a Christian my entire life. I was raised in the Southern Baptist church, but branched out when I started studying theology on my own and not taking what I was told in church at face value.
The church I belong to, a congregation of PC-USA, considers itself pretty radical. Not all Christians are evangelical in theology. Jesus was a bit of a radical too. Lots of us are Obama supporters, but there are McCain supporters as well. Thing is, we don't question each others Christianity because of the way someone votes. Isn't really a Christian thing to do.
I see nothing wrong with keeping religion out of the government, and I actually prefer it that way.
Now see, is that kind of talk really necessary?
Seriously.
thank you for your kind words sm
However, I see on this board a lot of things about the biased Fox news, but it bothers me that the liberal media does not highlight some of the good that is happening in Iraq. I do not think that it is a waste of time to help the innocent people who were being persecuted under Hussein's rule. It is a falsehood that most Iraqis do not want us there. Most of them area thankful for all the good that we have done. I do not think that this is needless. However, perhaps we should just agree to disagree.
I'm here laughing at your kind.
HaHaHa. That's what I'll be saying to you on Nov. 4th. Mark my word. It's just so funny, it hurts.
Oh? And exactly what is 'my kind?'
*
It's about the kind or world
It's a question that both sides need to be asking themselves. Who among us have enjoyed the hate and division into tribal warring factions we of late have thrust ourselves into the middle of on this forum? Is that what you would wish on your children?
In any case, OT, I did the same thing this morning and at the end of the day, that's all any of us can do...our part. Beyond that, we just keep on keeping on, prepare for the worst, hope for the best and always keep the faith.
that is kind of funny--
but I am pretty sure that if it is what the poster meant, that would have been what the post said, since Republican is not considered profane on this board (by the moderators, anyway LOL).
It is kind of funny how
Barrack Obama says he hasn't taken any money from PACs for his campaign and yet he received the second highest amount of money from FM/FM being beaten only by Dodd. Of course....that was before FM/FM took a dump on our economy but hey.....at least Dodd, Obama, and John Kerry were the top three recipients of money from them. Notice they are all democrats. Oh...I'm sorry....down with the republicans...this is all their fault....blah blah blah blah blah blah.....sheesh.
That's getting kind of tired.
McCain is not Bush - that argument really needs to be put to rest. I know, you're going to come back with the fact that he voted with Bush 90% of the time, but that's really just a number. You have to look at what he voted with Bush on and how the rest of Congress voted on the same issues as well. I understand if you just don't want McCain for president, but judge him on who he is, not by the party he belongs to because that doesn't necessarily mean anything these days.
Thank you for the kind words. s/m
I have tried and tried and tried to get people to THINK and debate. It isn't so much about this election as it is about the American people coming together as one and fixing what is wrong with this country. We have only 2 choices in this election and we can all just try to learn as much TRUTH about both candidates and then vote for whichever one we think MAY most likely represent our values. McCain and his followers have completely turned me off with the constant trashing of Obama. At least Obama has been dignified and while he takes pot shots at his oponent, his speeches offer some insight into what he SAYS he stands for whereas McCain does nothing but preach how his opponent is going to throw the whole country under the bus.
My Christianity doesn't enter into this election. If I saw either man with Christian values, that would certainly play a part in my decision. On the one hand we have Obama supporting abortion and gay marriage, which I can't do. On the other hand we have McCain LYING. According to my Bible if you break one commandment you are guilty of breaking all. According to my belief: Abortion = murder. Lying = "thou shalt not bear false witness." Both are thou shalt not commandments. So from a Christian standpoint one man is no better than the other.
She's not self-righteous.... we need to be kind to each other (sm)
She said she was very happy about Obama being elected. She is not self-righteous at all. Come on now.
You know, I kind of have to agree with you on this. sm
However, by the same token, America needs a good hard look at how SHE really is without the filter of the biased media (either direction).
Will that ever happen?
I highly doubt it.
On the job training is the best kind...
from Bush. I think he's done enough.
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