The Lake is just fine
Posted By: sm on 2009-02-13
In Reply to: Thought Lake Erie was pretty well cleaned up? - Backwards typist
It used to be horribly polluted but it is fine now. My uncle and aunt own a cabin on Middle Bass Island which is right across from Put-In-Bay. My uncle fishes for Walleye out of the lake all the time. In fact, I was worried he was one of the idiots caught out on the ice that had to be rescued. LOL! Thankfully he was not, but he could have very easily been. He loves to ice fish. We used to vacation there every year with my aunt and uncle.
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Go jump in a lake...nm
x
How does this relate to the mayor of Salt Lake City??
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Thought Lake Erie was pretty well cleaned up?
We have relatives in NY side of Lake Erie. Everyone was telling us (this was a few years ago) that the lake was okay now. We wanted to make sure because we always bought smoked whitefish when we went up there.
Great speech by the mayor of Salt Lake City. sm
Speech by Mayor Rocky Anderson, democrat, on 10/27/07. They should bump Hillary and put this guy out there.
Salt Lake City, Utah --
Today, as we come together once again in this great city, we raise our voices in unison to say to President Bush, to Vice President Cheney, to other members of the Bush Administration (past and present), to a majority of Congress, including Utah’s entire congressional delegation, and to much of the mainstream media: “You have failed us miserably and we won’t take it any more.”
“While we had every reason to expect far more of you, you have been pompous, greedy, cruel, and incompetent as you have led this great nation to a moral, military, and national security abyss.”
“You have breached trust with the American people in the most egregious ways. You have utterly failed in the performance of your jobs. You have undermined our Constitution, permitted the violation of the most fundamental treaty obligations, and betrayed the rule of law.”
“You have engaged in, or permitted, heinous human rights abuses of the sort never before countenanced in our nation’s history as a matter of official policy. You have sent American men and women to kill and be killed on the basis of lies, on the basis of shifting justifications, without competent leadership, and without even a coherent plan for this monumental blunder.”
“We are here to tell you: We won’t take it any more!”
“You have acted in direct contravention of values that we, as Americans who love our country, hold dear. You have deceived us in the most cynical, outrageous ways. You have undermined, or allowed the undermining of, our constitutional system of checks and balances among the three presumed co-equal branches of government. You have helped lead our nation to the brink of fascism, of a dictatorship contemptuous of our nation’s treaty obligations, federal statutory law, our Constitution, and the rule of law.”
“Because of you, and because of your jingoistic false ‘patriotism,’ our world is far more dangerous, our nation is far more despised, and the threat of terrorism is far greater than ever before.
It has been absolutely astounding how you have committed the most horrendous acts, causing such needless tragedy in the lives of millions of people, yet you wear your so-called religion on your sleeves, asserting your God-is-on-my-side nonsense – when what you have done flies in the face of any religious or humanitarian tradition. Your hypocrisy is mind-boggling – and disgraceful. What part of “Thou shalt not kill” do you not understand? What part of the “Golden rule” do you not understand? What part of “be honest,” “be responsible,” and “be accountable” don’t you understand? What part of “Blessed are the peacekeepers” do you not understand?
Because of you, hundreds of thousands of people have been killed, many thousands of people have suffered horrendous lifetime injuries, and millions have been run off from their homes. For the sake of our nation, for the sake of our children, and for the sake of our brothers and sisters around the world, we are morally compelled to say, as loudly as we can, ‘We won’t take it any more!’ ”
“As United States agents kidnap, disappear, and torture human beings around the world, you justify, you deceive, and you cover up. We find what you have done to men, women and children, and to the good name and reputation of the United States, so appalling, so unconscionable, and so outrageous as to compel us to call upon you to step aside and allow other men and women who are competent, true to our nation’s values, and with high moral principles to stand in your places – for the good of our nation, for the good of our children, and for the good of our world.”
In the case of the President and Vice President, this means impeachment and removal from office, without any further delay from a complacent, complicit Congress, the Democratic majority of which cares more about political gain in 2008 than it does about the vindication of our Constitution, the rule of law, and democratic accountability.
It means the election of people as President and Vice President who, unlike most of the presidential candidates from both major parties, have not aided and abetted in the perpetration of the illegal, tragic, devastating invasion and occupation of Iraq. And it means the election of people as President and Vice President who will commit to return our nation to the moral and strategic imperative of refraining from torturing human beings.
In the case of the majority of Congress, it means electing people who are diligent enough to learn the facts, including reading available National Intelligence Estimates, before voting to go to war. It means electing to Congress men and women who will jealously guard Congress’s sole prerogative to declare war. It means electing to Congress men and women who will not submit like vapid lap dogs to presidential requests for blank checks to engage in so-called preemptive wars, for legislation permitting warrantless wiretapping of communications involving US citizens, and for dangerous, irresponsible, saber-rattling legislation like the recent Kyl-Lieberman amendment.
We must avoid the trap of focusing the blame solely upon President Bush and Vice-President Cheney. This is not just about a few people who have wronged our country – and the world. They were enabled by members of both parties in Congress, they were enabled by the pathetic mainstream news media, and, ultimately, they have been enabled by the American people – 40% of whom are so ill-informed they still think Iraq was behind the 9/11 attacks – a people who know and care more about baseball statistics and which drunken starlets are wearing underwear than they know and care about the atrocities being committed every single day in our name by a government for which we need to take responsibility.
As loyal Americans, without regard to political partisanship -- as veterans, as teachers, as religious leaders, as working men and women, as students, as professionals, as businesspeople, as public servants, as retirees, as people of all ages, races, ethnic origins, sexual orientations, and faiths -- we are here to say to the Bush administration, to the majority of Congress, and to the mainstream media: “You have violated your solemn responsibilities. You have undermined our democracy, spat upon our Constitution, and engaged in outrageous, despicable acts. You have brought our nation to a point of immorality, inhumanity, and illegality of immense, tragic, unprecedented proportions.”
“But we will live up to our responsibilities as citizens, as brothers and sisters of those who have suffered as a result of the imperial bullying of the United States government, and as moral actors who must take a stand: And we will, and must, mean it when we say ‘We won’t take it any more.’”
If we want principled, courageous elected officials, we need to be principled, courageous, and tenacious ourselves. History has demonstrated that our elected officials are not the leaders – the leadership has to come from us. If we don’t insist, if we don’t persist, then we are not living up to our responsibilities as citizens in a democracy – and our responsibilities as moral human beings. If we remain silent, we signal to Congress and the Bush administration – and to candidates running for office – and to the world – that we support the status quo.
Silence is complicity. Only by standing up for what’s right and never letting down can we say we are doing our part.
Our government, on the basis of a campaign we now know was entirely fraudulent, attacked and militarily occupied a nation that posed no danger to the United States. Our government, acting in our name, has caused immense, unjustified death and destruction.
It all started five years ago, yet where have we, the American people, been? At this point, we are responsible. We get together once in a while at demonstrations and complain about Bush and Cheney, about Congress, and about the pathetic news media. We point fingers and yell a lot. Then most people politely go away until another demonstration a few months later.
How many people can honestly say they have spent as much time learning about and opposing the outrages of the Bush administration as they have spent watching sports or mindless television programs during the past five years? Escapist, time-sapping sports and insipid entertainment have indeed become the opiate of the masses.
Why is this country so sound asleep? Why do we abide what is happening to our nation, to our Constitution, to the cause of peace and international law and order? Why are we not doing all in our power to put an end to this madness?
We should be in the streets regularly and students should be raising heck on our campuses. We should be making it clear in every way possible that apologies or convoluted, disingenuous explanations just don’t cut it when presidential candidates and so many others voted to authorize George Bush and his neo-con buddies to send American men and women to attack and occupy Iraq.
Let’s awaken, and wake up the country by committing here and now to do all each of us can to take our nation back. Let them hear us across the country, as we ask others to join us: “We won’t take it any more!”
I implore you: Draw a line. Figure out exactly where your own moral breaking point is. How much will you put up with before you say “No more” and mean it?
I have drawn my line as a matter of simple personal morality: I cannot, and will not, support any candidate who has voted to fund the atrocities in Iraq. I cannot, and will not, support any candidate who will not commit to remove all US troops, as soon as possible, from Iraq. I cannot, and will not, support any candidate who has supported legislation that takes us one step closer to attacking Iran. I cannot, and will not, support any candidate who has not fought to stop the kidnapping, disappearances, and torture being carried on in our name.
If we expect our nation’s elected officials to take us seriously, let us send a powerful message they cannot misunderstand. Let them know we really do have our moral breaking point. Let them know we have drawn a bright line. Let them know they cannot take our support for granted – that, regardless of their party and regardless of other political considerations, they will not have our support if they cannot provide, and have not provided, principled leadership.
The people of this nation may have been far too quiet for five years, but let us pledge that we won’t let it go on one more day – that we will do all we can to put an end to the illegalities, the moral degradation, and the disintegration of our nation’s reputation in the world.
Let us be unified in drawing the line – in declaring that we do have a moral breaking point. Let us insist, together, in supporting our troops and in gratitude for the freedoms for which our veterans gave so much, that we bring our troops home from Iraq, that we return our government to a constitutional democracy, and that we commit to honoring the fundamental principles of human rights.
In defense of our country, in defense of our Constitution, in defense of our shared values as Americans – and as moral human beings – we declare today that we will fight in every way possible to stop the insanity, stop the continued military occupation of Iraq, and stop the moral depravity reflected by the kidnapping, disappearing, and torture of people around the world.
then you should be fine
This is yet another fine..
reason to stay out of Wal-Mart. If everyone who is so upset about words would put the same amount of energy into confronting Wal-Mart about all their real sins we would all be a lot better off.
It's fine....
I'm probably still upset about Howard Dean being run out of the race way back when... I'm just sick of the whole scene.
Fine: s/m
Then you can sit down for crumpets and tea with all the madmen who hate America for our freedom. Keep in mind that unless you believe in this radical Islam (2 more words which the drive-by media has completely eradicated) you (including Obama) are an infidel. A close friend of my husband (mine, too) is from Iran. He's as active in conservative politics as many of us are. Gee, I wonder why...
Fine by me........
As far as I'm concerned, the UN definitely has no credibility and never has. It is a joke of an organization and one the U.S. DOES NOT belong in!!! They wouldn't know credibility if it slapped them in the face let alone credibility of a good woman.
no name is fine and not every uses me and
maybe I've missed something but I've never seen anyone sign their messages I. I could be wrong, but I've never seen it.
The reason is your and my viewpoints differ so much. There are too many people switching names on a daily basis and I prefer to just keep it to me. That way people won't think I've gone off the deep end or taking any drugs when you spew your fabrications about O'No.
If that happens, fine. But at least I will have had NOTHING to do with it...
and I can live with that.
Thanks, she's doing fine
have to wait for bx results. I think no news is good news. Appreciate the prayers!
That's fine with me
it's been needing some livening up anyways! :)
Thanks. I will be fine
I could see it coming for the past few months and had cut my hours back. Also, I have always had 1 or 2 other jobs just to protect myself.
I had sent out some resumes over the past few months because I had a bad feeling about the hospital, and actually started a new job the day after I got the bad news. The money is not as good, but it is better than not getting paid at all!
Everything is not fine in our country
... but I will put my flag up on the 4th of July.
I find it so sad that our country is so very divided and the ugliness and meaness has come out of everyone's mouths.
It seems that some of it is the religious versus the nonreligious, the gay and the hetero, our way or no way..
no matter who is president, we are all equal and should all be treated wiht respect.
Peace.
Yes, they are very fine words..
written by some very fine minds. Ghandi says much the same. I think I'll stick with the great minds. Cat bites and scratches dangerous ?...sometimes...people who mistreat animals or wish them harm dangerous ?...always.
Those are really fine words.
However, if the cat is harming human life, and everyone knows how toxic a cat scratch or bite can be, and the owner refuses to maintain her animal, what is the solution? Maybe a new home.
That's fine if you want to be told
you aren't worthy of an MRI, right? Because it's too expensive?
Oh I don't know, you are doing a heck of a fine job...
passing off insult as intelligence. You have it down to a fine art. Verrryyy impressive. "Certainly the issues seem to be a big taboo." Well I suppose so...since I have asked you a very simple question repeatedly and you can't seem to stop with the insults long enough to answer it....lol.
As to plagiarizing...rather than do that, you just post under different monikers...to support your own argument I guess? Ahem. Ego need a little stroking there?
Hope you find some of that substantive conversation. Heaven only knows who would sit through a 20-minute dissertation hoping that at some time a point would emerge or just one little question would be answered. Good luck!
that's all well and fine, but today's
world never sees any racism as funny, so given the serious nature of this particular board, humor just did not come on the radar.
Sure she was fine with you until she wised up
and brings up talking points that represent concerns of the democratic party. Nothing wrong with considering all sides to a story.
She will handle herself just fine....
better than O, at the very least as well. And she is the #2 person...not the #1. We elect him, we get him day 1, and all the experience (limited though it is) is #2 on your ticket.
Just fine isn't good enough. nm
xx
You have your opinion, and that is fine....
I have mine.
No need to ridicule. If you don't believe, fine....
but no need to ridicule. If a rabbit's foot was lucky it would still be on the rabbit...?
not to put too fine a point on it, but
It was because gas was too expensive this summer, so people just skipped the soda at the gas station. (that is actually the truth).
We're actually fine, thanks for asking...
we are pretty good at managing our finances; we were also taught at a young age to save our money, to not put it all in the stock market, plus we are debt free but the house. Should something happen to our jobs, we have a year's living expenses put away for that. The media would have you believe everyone is living hand to mouth, has lost all their money in the stock market, and are one step from declaring bankruptcy or being homeless, and that just isn't the case.
She seemed just fine. Comedy might be a
MLO
Another fine example of the "pot" again
:)
Fine. Then you should understand it when I say....
Obama will get my respect when he earns it. Just as I would expectg if McCain had won he would have had to earn your respect...and would never have gotten it, right? Can't we just be HONEST about this? lol.
Okay, fine. That is hypocritical
nm
Did you ever think that speaking is fine, but
nm
I'm perfectly fine with that.
Thanks Amanda - you explained it well. I had never heard the term anchor babies. If they are born in the US then that's fine for president.
fine point
you've made there.
I think it is perfectly fine -
You also have to take into account the differences in what one generation feels is appropriate and what the next generation feels is appropriate.
I can remember when I was younger being told I could not even wear jeans to McDonald's when applying for a job, that I needed to wear a dress. Now, with the new generation, you don't even need your "BEST" jeans on - anything goes.
Going for a business interview? Well, forget the dress and panty hose... wear a pantsuit or a dress with bare legs.
At least Obama still has on a dress shirt and a tie, and I am sure the jacket is there available when it is needed.
I also read that one of the problems is that Obama does not like the cold and he keeps the thermostat turned to an uncomfortable high if you have on a jacket.
I think he would handle it just fine...(sm)
However, I don't believe a man should be measured solely based on his ability to fight. I'll take brains over brawn any day.
That's OK. I'm sure you can put your trust in fine,
*
Fine, don't answer the question. SM
I am more than happy to vacate this board. I was just waiting for proof of the heinous allegations that were made against Laura Bush, but obviously you don't have any and can't be bothered. I will not post here again. It might be nice if you stopped your pot shots on the Conservative board as well.
agreeing to disagree is fine ...
But it never seems to stop there. I don't own a gun and probably never will. I don't think anyone should, but I do believe it is their right and I would never fight to try to take that away. That is agreeing to disagree.
I believe in a woman's right to chose, you don't. I respect that (that is why it is a choice), but when people starting trying to take that choice away from me, that is not agreeing to disagree, that is telling me what to do, not to do, and that is what I have a problem with.
Fine, put Sarah in his place. She has more
nm
FINE! JOE BIDEN SAID OBAMA WAS NOT...
READY TO BE PRESIDENT!! Which is worse??? Geez.
I agree. She will do fine and has MORE credibility
nm
Which would be fine EXCEPT he wants to be president of that same country nm
x
I thought she did a fine job, And I guess...
the mainstream media just can't help that looking down your nose condescencion when they talk to her. Couric certainly couldn't. And enough with the gotcha questions already. Do you honestly think Joe Biden could answer that question either..."say Joe, give me specific examples of how Barack Obama has done anything about regulating mortgage companies?" Oh, well of course how silly of me, that's easy. There are NONE. And Katie Couric dismissing what McCain did in 2005-2006...like it meant nothing. And I am supposed to find her credible?
Sarah Palin does not need to know how many times Mccain was for or against regulation. What does that have to do with being Vice President? When will that ever come into play?
Palin's answers were good, they were correct, and she is not going to play the gotcha game. I think that puts her above the mud and the mainstream media wallowing in it.
The media in the tank for Obama during the primaries treated Hillary almost as bad....and for the life of me, I cannot understand people who encourage this behavior in the press and even engage it in themselves, and have the supreme arrogance to call it journalism or fact finding...instead of owning up to what it is...looking for Palin's head on a platter and why let a little thing like the truth get in their way?
Yep, I agree...it was pathetic!!
fine sam -- feel superior now? of course
I give up. You're not worth it.
Fine with me. I'm confident in my party.
How 'bout you?
It opened fine for me...all 451 pages! nm
//
well that's fine if you live in the city
but like I said, people who live in the country like myself and our neighbors also have livestock to protect. What are they supposed to do when their guns are taken?
We have a single shotgun in the home. It is unloaded. We have no children. Now if we do have children we will have a locked gun cabinet and they will be taught from an early age that guns are not toys. It's called teaching responsibility. You can't just "do away" with all things dangerous in this society. Rules do not apply to crooks and criminals.
Yes, there needs to be legislation on guns. There is no reason for people to own semi automatics and stuff like that. But I believe we have a right to own shotguns, handguns, and rifles (rifles are used for deer hunting and other big game hunting).
Why would you say I need counseling? Just because I believe we have a right to bear arms? (I think some other folks believed that too...)
Gee, he was fine with you when he supported Gore
Reminds me of the line from the movie Dune....
"The sleeper has awoken".
OMG. Fine...go look at the crime statistics.
nm
Fine, YOU can have the terrorists live
Maybe he will move them to Chicago.
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