The article posted is not the complete conversation. Ever hear of Freakanomics? sm
Posted By: sm on 2005-09-30
In Reply to: I don't see how a conservative, prolifer could attempt to defend his statements...nm - Democrat
That has a lot to do with the conversation. As usual, the MSM left out significant parts of what was said. No surprise there.
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DW, if you will look at the article I posted....
you will see some of your concerns addressed. I think the link piglet posted in her original post, where she went searching for more on Camp Cropper....that link has to do with something else, not Camp Cropper. Two different persons in charge. At any rate, Camp Cropper sends kids outside the detention area to school taught by Iraqis, not Americans, just a more moderate view of Islam also not the militant jihadist kind. It says that Sunni and Shiite teens are starting to interact and the hatred seems to be disappearing. And, as piglet rightfully pointed out regarding Venezuela and how the young people were effecting the change...so can it be in Iraq, because that is where it starts, correct? And it sounds like this commander over this detention center, with the help of Iraqi teachers, is doing just that. Not trying to convert them from Islam, just give them a different view of Islam and a choice other than violence. As you say, they are the future of the Middle East, and I think the school that Camp Cropper uses is the way to help that happen. As the Iraqi principal said...mostly they are just kids wanting to be kids. And if we can turn a few of them from jihad and toward reconciliation within their own country, then I think it is well worth the effort.
Have a good day!
That article posted above was NOT about
It was about SCHIP.
Snapshots: State Coverage Expansions, Despite Economic Downturn
Despite the economic downturn, a few states are continuing to pursue coverage expansions. States such as Indiana are expanding Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) by extending program eligibility up the income ladder. Other states are taking more unusual approaches, such as mandating children's coverage (New Jersey) or extending dependent coverage for children to young adults (Illinois and many other states).
This article you posted clearly contradicts your assertions..
Read what it says about Christianity, also. I believe the article is stating that Hitler's belief about Jews, capitalism and communism was faulty -- used as an excuse to exterminate them. It does not state that Hitler's three excuses for hating Jews is based on factual evidence, quite the contrary.
I think perhaps you read a different article than the one posted by Lurker.
nm
See the article I posted above by Peggy Noonan.
She talks about Bush's out of control spending, and she's no liberal!
Bush cut OIL COMPANY PROFITS? Yeah... right! Time of crisis or not, they don't care. I'm no O'Reilly fan, but O'Reilly publicly challenged the oil companies on his show to just voluntarily take a small reduction in PROFITS during this time. Ain't gonna happen.
For all the conservative posts on our board, I haven't seen ONE who can explain who is going to PAY for all Bush's spending. I pity the poor person who is the next President and inherits Bush's huge MESS. If (hopefully) it's a Democrat, you can bet the necons will be trashing him/her from the git-go, calling him/her atheist, drunk, and whatever other libel they invent between now and then.
I'm working as hard as I can because my daughter and her husband won't be able to afford to heat their home this coming winter. There is no way I'm going to let my grandchildren, daughter and son-in-law freeze, and I'm going to try to help out as much as I can.
I've read where some of the most radical whacko evangelicals with a direct pipeline (no pun) to God blamed Katrina on lack of morals of people in New Orleans. In the light of Rita, seems to me that God's actually targeting the people controlling the oil rigs. Maybe God's warning that if we don't quit coveting and trying to steal oil from the Middle East's Gulf, God's going to send in a really BIG storm to destroy the oil rigs in America's Gulf. Maybe it's God's way of telling Bush that Bush isn't listening to what God has been telling him, that we need to protect and take care of our own, and stop lying and murdering and killing for his own personal gain and that of his cronies.
Sorry to go off on a tangent here, but I become very angry at the thought of my family freezing this winter (even though they work hard and are/were considered middle class). Hopefully, I will be able to help so that doesn't happen, but what about all the other families with children out there? What happened to conservative family values? They obviously don't exist if a school choose to CLOSE to conserve fuel, and oil companies keep right on churning and collecting huge profits.
Just like you, I truly hope a revolution is churning. Someone has to start caring about regular, hard-working, underinsured or uninsured people in this country. These are the people who are the backbone of this country, the people who do the REAL work, while the fat cats (Bush's base) sit back and get fatter and fatter with Bush's blessings!
Unbelievable! I posted an article disputing everything you said.
Now who am I going to believe?
A newspaper (that you admittedly don't LIKE) or YOU, who obviously knows more than I would ever want to know about skinheads? You (and your party of lies and deceit) don't have an ounce of credibility, and I'd believe the NYT any day over the ignorant, bigoted, hateful likes of YOU!
In case you haven't noticed, there is a huge controversy over rape and murder of civilian Iraqis. It certainly makes sense that a neo-nazi skinhead group would carry out these kind of brutal acts with no conscience and without thinking twice.
Your beloved skinheads are making the rest of our very FINE military look bad, yet you defend these filthy subhumanoids.
I'm not surprised that you're angry because apparently what was supposed to be a big secret is now being publicized. I'm also not surprised that you're defending them. I fully expected some from the other board to reveal their true selves when I posted the article.
You're repulsive. Go crawl back under the rock you slithered out of. You're leaving a disgusting slime trail. YUCK!
This will be my last post to you. I don't deal with hateful bigots.
Exactly, in fact, the Ann Coulter article I posted sm
has past turnovers in congress and house under other administrations. This is nothing compared to the past.
I was talking about the article you posted with no source. sm
And my point was if you believe everything that is written, well...never mind. Rush likes to gets libs going and it looks like it worked for you. I like him. MY opinion is that he not what you say he is, so we will have to just agree to disagree.
The above article posted a little messy. trying one more time
Bush vetoes children's health bill a second time
By Caren Bohan
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President George W. Bush on Wednesday vetoed a bill expanding a popular children's health-care program for a second time, angering Democrats who are locked in a fight with the administration over the budget and spending.
Pushed by the Democratic-led Congress but also supported by many Republicans, the bill was aimed at providing health insurance to about 10 million children in low- and moderate-income families. Taxes on cigarettes and other tobacco products would have been increased to pay for the aid.
Bush vetoed an earlier version of the bill in October but Congress quickly passed another one that included some changes but not enough to satisfy the White House concerns.
"Because the Congress has chosen to send me an essentially identical bill that has the same problems as the flawed bill I previously vetoed, I must veto this legislation too," Bush wrote in a message to the House of Representatives.
The fight between Congress and the White House over the health bill is one in a series of clashes over spending that have arisen this year.
Bush has said the funding level sought by the Democrats for the health program would have expanded it beyond its original intent of covering poor children and marked a step toward government-run health care.
Democrats say the additional money is needed to help families who cannot afford to buy private health insurance but who earn too much to qualify for the Medicaid health care program for the poor.
"This is indeed a sad action for him to take, because so many children in our country need access to quality health care," House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi, a California Democrat, told reporters.
The bill would have provided $60 billion in funding for the children's health program over five years, compared with the current $25 billion five-year funding level.
The tobacco tax increase would raise the levy on cigarettes by 61 cents to $1 per pack.
House Democratic leaders said they will not try to override the veto right away and would vote on a bill to ensure the more than six million kids now in the program can stay enrolled.
(Editing by Todd Eastham)
(Additional reporting by Donna Smith and Richard Cowan)
I didn't say I believed it, just posted an article
I wouldn't be too quick to put words in someones mouth just for the sake of mocking them. I never said I believed it. I know it happened in Nazi Germany (holocaust). I only posted the article because when I started searching on welfare, government takeovers, and other topics, that topic kept popping up.
Do I believe it could happen. Not really. Just thought it was interesting. So,...all I said I believed was the plan to put the country on welfare. If you want to mock me for something at least mock me for what I said.
I hear this too. Here is a link, but I put the article inside. www.OneNewsNow.com
Obama has aunt living in US illegally
Eileen Sullivan and Elliot Spagat - Associated Press Writers - 11/1/2008 6:55:00 AM
WASHINGTON - Barack Obama's aunt, a Kenyan woman who has been living in public housing in Boston, is in the United States illegally after an immigration judge rejected her request for asylum four years ago, The Associated Press has learned.
Zeituni Onyango, 56, referred to as "Aunti Zeituni" in Obama's memoir, was instructed to leave the United States by a U.S. immigration judge who denied her asylum request, a person familiar with the matter told the AP late Friday. This person spoke on condition of anonymity because no one was authorized to discuss Onyango's case.
Information about the deportation case was disclosed and confirmed by two separate sources, one of them a federal law enforcement official. The information they made available is known to officials in the federal government, but the AP could not establish whether anyone at a political level in the Bush administration or in the McCain campaign had been involved in its release.
Onyango's refusal to leave the country would represent an administrative, non-criminal violation of U.S. immigration law, meaning such cases are handled outside the criminal court system. Estimates vary, but many experts believe there are more than 10 million such immigrants in the United States.
The AP could not reach Onyango immediately for comment. No one answered the telephone number listed in her name late Friday. It was unclear why her request for asylum was rejected in 2004. The Obama campaign declined to comment late Friday night.
Onyango is not a relative whom Obama has discussed in campaign appearances and, unlike Obama's father and grandmother, is not someone who has been part of the public discussion about his personal life.
A spokeswoman for U.S. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement, Kelly Nantel, said the government does not comment on an individual's citizenship status or immigration case.
Onyango's case - coming to light just days before the presidential election - led to an unusual nationwide directive within Immigrations and Customs Enforcement requiring any deportations prior to Tuesday's election to be approved at least at the level of ICE regional directors, the U.S. law enforcement official told the AP.
The unusual directive suggests that the Bush administration is sensitive to the political implications of Onyango's case coming to light so close to the election.
Kenya is in eastern Africa between Somalia and Tanzania. The country has been fractured in violence in recent years, including a period of two months of bloodshed after December 2007 that killed 1,500 people.
The disclosure about Onyango came just one day after Obama's presidential campaign confirmed to the Times of London that Onyango, who has lived in public housing in South Boston for five years, was Obama's half aunt on his father's side.
It was not immediately clear how Onyango might have qualified for public housing with a standing deportation order.
Don't think you read the same article, THAT IS THE TITLE...see the link I posted...
xx
I posted the entire article, but I MUST be LYING! LOL! Link inside. sm
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/8/30/230457.shtml
It's about the Freakanomics.
Bennett Fires Back Against Racism Charges
Saturday, October 01, 2005
WASHINGTON — Former Education Secretary William Bennett (search), harshly criticized by Democrats and repudiated by the White House for a comment he made suggesting that, in theory, crime would go down if more black babies were aborted, fired back at his critics Friday.
Anyone paying attention to this debate should be offended by those who have selectively quoted me, distorted my meaning, and taken out of context the dialogue I engaged in this week. Such distortions from 'leaders' of organizations and parties is a disgrace not only to the organizations and institutions they serve, but to the First Amendment (search), Bennett said.
Let me reiterate what I had hoped my long career had already established: that I renounce all forms of bigotry — and that my record in trying to provide opportunities for, as well as save the lives of, minorities in this country stands up just fine, he added.
The conservative author, columnist and talk-radio host touched off a firestorm on Wednesday when a caller to his Morning in America show postulated that if abortion were illegal, Social Security would remain solvent.
Bennett raised questions about the caller's premise, saying that according to that logic, the argument in the book Freakonomics — that allowing abortion reduces crime — would be equally valid.
Referring to the book's hypothesis, Bennett told the caller, I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could, if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down.
Bennett continued: That would be an impossible, ridiculous and morally reprehensible thing to do. But your crime rate would go down.
Bennett's remarks on Wednesday earned him scorn from Democratic lawmakers.
He's assuming that if you did this immoral thing, it would bring down crime and that is a possible solution, Rep. Charles Rangel (search), D-N.Y., told FOX News. A good-thinking guy that is a former secretary of education could give the hypothetical that if you expose people to education, then you would alleviate the conditions that cause crime, he said.
It again raises the specter of the not-so-subtle politics of race represented by 'Willie Horton,' welfare queens and the conclusion that America would be better off if Strom Thurmond had been successful in 1948, said House Minority Whip Steny Hoyer of Maryland.
These are shameful words, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi of California said on the floor of the House Thursday evening. Secretary Bennett's comments reflect a narrow-minded spirit that has no place within American discourse. These words do not give credence to the tremendously difficult past that African-Americans have endured. These words do not reflect the values of hope and opportunity for the future.
Asked for White House reaction to the remarks, press secretary Scott McClellan said Friday, The president believes the comments were not appropriate.
Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J., said of the White House comment: Not appropriate is wearing white shoes after Labor Day. These comments were reprehensible and racist.
Lautenberg was introducing a resolution in the Senate calling on the chamber to condemn Bennett's comments.
The Subtleties of Race Relations
Bennett was education secretary under President Reagan and director of drug control policy when President Bush's father was president.
In discussing crime and race on his show, Bennett later said those are topics that have been on many people's minds, and tongues, for the past month or so in light of the situation in New Orleans.
Many in public policy have speculated about the slow response to Hurricane Katrina, which struck more than a month ago, by the federal government, with much of the blame laid at Bush's feet. Several suggestions had been made that the president's response was delayed because those suffering most in New Orleans were poor and black.
The latest rhetorical slams were expanded last week at the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation Conference when Rangel likened Bush to the late Bull Connor, the Birmingham, Ala., commissioner of public safety who had his workers turn fire hoses and police dogs on African-Americans demonstrating against segregation laws in 1963.
Rangel said Bennett, like Bush, could find solutions for impoverished black Americans if they bothered to address poverty issues.
If the United States spent nearly as much time on poverty as they did in Iraq, we could solve some of the racial problems, Rangel said, adding that he did not think Bush is racist like Connor but that the president's economic policies are so adverse to the questions of poverty that he was hoping Bush's indifference to the plight of black Americans would shake up the country the way that Bull Connor did.
On Thursday, Bennett, author of The Book of Virtues, told FOX News that his remarks were to be viewed from the specter of academia and philosophic argument.
To put forward a hypothesis, a morally impossible hypothesis, to show why it is morally impossible and reprehensible, seems to me is a standard way of talking about public policy and a standard way of teaching, he said.
As I said below, he had been discussing Freakanomics, Democrat.
And as I said below, need he have interjected that in every sentence in the conversation? The discussion was actually about abortion. The entire TEXT of the conversation is posted here. Also, this has been discussed on several talk shows and Freakanomics has been mentioned often and appropriately, but as I also said, there is no use discussing it further. There is no arguing with most on here about it, athough there was a glimmer of hope. Understand me, I am not dismissing his comments out of hand. I think he made a poor decision when he was making a point. However, do I think he did it deliberately and with malice and do I think he is a racist? Absolutely not. THIS is racism:
What, white isn’t a color?
Posted by: McQ on Saturday, October 01, 2005
|
Things like this amuse me as they show the absolute lunacy which now exists in some areas of our society. From Northeastern University:
After originally advertising for women of color only, the Women's Studies and Graduate Consortium's first Breaking Bread: Women of Color Dialogue was forced to open the doors of the Raytheon Amphitheater to all races last Saturday.
The event was meant to include only women of color during its first session from 9 a.m. to 1 p.m., with the second session from 1 p.m. to 3 p.m. open to the public. However, after protest from the Student Government Association (SGA), orders came from Provost Ahmed Abdelal that the event must remain open to all who wished to attend.
They were in violation of the nondiscrimination policy, said Michael DeRamo, SGA vice president for academic affairs. We're glad that everything turned out well and the people who wanted to go were allowed to attend.
He said although SGA appreciated what the program was trying to accomplish, SGA could not stand dormant while one of their senators was denied admission based on her race. OK, you say. Good deal. Now, check out the reaction:
I think it's a shame that one or two white students based on white privilege, a lack of awareness of racial issues and a lack of generosity of spirit complained to the office of the provost and were able, because they were white, to gain admission to the morning session that I was forced to open up, Chandler said. Only one white female student showed up and I welcomed her anyway, in addition to telling the audience to conduct themselves with integrity even though the presence of a white woman was unwelcome. Is your irony meter pegging out yet? Talk about Newspeak. Protesting discrimination is now lack of awareness of racial issues and a lack of generosity of spirit.
Protesting discrimination now apparently only belongs to 'people of color'.
Just as interesting is this group seems to believe it can solve racial issues without involving all the races.
Oh and the condescension was almost dripping when this person said I welcomed her ... even though the presence of a white woman was unwelcome.
Sounds like a stereotypical southerner in the immediate post-civil rights south, doesn't it?
|
Personal note: You won't see this in the MSM.
THIS is racist:
In the days of slavery, there were those slaves who lived on the plantation and [there] were those slaves that lived in the house. You got the privilege of living in the house if you served the master ... exactly the way the master intended to have you serve him. Colin Powell's committed to come into the house of the master. When Colin Powell dares to suggest something other than what the master wants to hear, he will be turned back out to pasture. -- Harry Belafonte
THIS is racist:
He's married to a white woman. He wants to be white. He wants a colorless society. He has no ethnic pride. He doesn't want to be black. -- California State Senator Diane Watson's on Ward Connerly's interracial marriage
THIS is racist:
I am a former kleagle of the Ku Klux Klan in Raleigh County and the adjoining counties of the state .... The Klan is needed today as never before and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia .... It is necessary that the order be promoted immediately and in every state of the Union. Will you please inform me as to the possibilities of rebuilding the Klan in the Realm of W. Va .... I hope that you will find it convenient to answer my letter in regards to future possibilities. -- Former Klansman and current US Senator Robert Byrd, a man who is referred to by many Democrats as the conscience of the Senate, in a letter written in 1946, after he quit the KKK.
THIS is racist:
I'll have those n*ggers voting Democratic for the next 200 years. -- Lyndon B. Johnson to two governors on Air Force One according Ronald Kessler's Book, Inside The White House
THIS is egregiously racist:
I think one man is just as good as another so long as he's not a n*gger or a Chinaman. Uncle Will says that the Lord made a White man from dust, a n*gger from mud, then He threw up what was left and it came down a Chinaman. He does hate Chinese and Japs. So do I. It is race prejudice, I guess. But I am strongly of the opinion Negroes ought to be in Africa, Yellow men in Asia and White men in Europe and America. Harry Truman (1911) in a letter to his future wife Bess
And THIS is racist:
There’s some people who’ve gone over the state and said, ‘Well, George Wallace has talked too strong about segregation.’ Now let me ask you this: how in the name of common sense can you be too strong about it? You’re either for it or you’re against it. There’s not any middle ground as I know of. -- Democratic Alabama Governor George Wallace (1959)
Freakanomics, Democrat, is NOT Bennett's book. sm
It you had read the entire article posted here and gone to Bennett's website, you would know that. But it's easier to just run with the first bone of information and negate the facts. If Bill Maher told Bennett to do that, he would make a fool of himself...yet again.
If one was to say that Bill Bennett believed crime could and should be reduced by abortion, then one could also argue that liberals who support abortion believe in and advocate black genocide.
Do they really want to go there...?
I have been following the conversation. sm
I think Marylandgal is extremely defensive in her posting. I also KNOW she does not speak for all Jews. Having said that, it's really easy to weasel out of an argument by invoking the specter or something horrible...Hitler usually works really well, or the KKK. Then you are an anti-Semite or a racist. It's a shameful way to argue but SOME liberals do it a lot.
This conversation is going nowhere.
And I am sure that the rabbis who attended were not the only ones who agree with them. As with any other exploratory meeting, not everyone attends. I am happy that THESE rabbis and Ben Stein as well choose life and interpret their religious teachings to choose life. It's unfortunate that you don't feel the same.
Won't go there? Isn't the conversation about...
impeaching George Bush? I said impeach him already. If what Kucinich has is dam*ing and he can prove any of it, why don't they just impeach? What part of that don't you understand?? What is it you want me to say and why is my comfort zone so all consuming to you? LOL.
Actually that's not the complete story...
You did not mention that when Summersby was dying of cancer she stated that it had been a romantic affair after all and wrote about it in her book. This contradicted what she had earlier stated. Who knows what really happened, and does it really matter? I doubt it. It only proves that we're all flawed humans, even some Republicans!!
Please do complete a list
of Obama's so-called life-time experienced and then list Palin's. The only thing he has over her is he is in Washington and she is not....which IMHO is refreshing. Maybe we need someone who hasn't been corrupted by Washington. I still do not see how you people keep saying Obama has experience....HE DOESN'T!!!! You can't complain about Palin not having experience if you are for Obama because you are only bashing your own candidate......although you people refuse to see that. I can't help but chuckle.
Not complete! YOU ARE SLEEPING.
nm
No, it's not complete......still in the courts
Obama and hs lawyer have tried to get this entire thing dismissed but to no avail. I guess this judge can't be bought. We'll see.
They have to complete 40 hours of
community service each year. The district provides a list of opportunities for them to chose from. If they want to do something that is not on the list, such as initiate their own project, they simply have to have it approved beforehand to be sure it will count toward their credits. Scouting activities, NHS CS commitments, etc., all count toward this requireement.
I am a complete cipher
yet you know what I would do in any given situation? That is the kind of mindless reactionary, partisan thinking that dug this country in a pit.
This post is not complete without this
http://wonkette.com/406046/look-its-one-photo-where-george-bush-has-his-coat-off
Bush in shirt sleeves..2nd day in office, if I am recalling KO's report from last week correctly.
There are complete morons
on both sides of the fence here. There are just as many crooked and ignorant dems as there are pubs. Once again, I wish you guys would stop playing party lines and actually see particular people for who and what they are instead of giving them free passes just because of their party. If you would take your blinders off, you would see that both parties have screwed us and they only complain about spending when it is the other party in control. Get a clue!
It was on the old board, it was a conversation you had with Nan. SM
and it was about Affirmative Action. I remember it well because it was very long and civil exchange between the two of you back when I thought you could be reasoned with. Nan said something about you have a different perspective and something like she could not challenge you from an African American point of view, I don't remember all the details, because you were African American at which point you said something like, what makes you think I am African American and she said, she thought you had said you were and you said I didn't say that because I am not. Now this is not word for word but it is the gist of it. Remember now?
But the conversation is about kids who are having
things done without the parents' knowledge.
I thought you were done with the conversation? sm
But when you got some back up you wanted to throw in a little more sarcasm? Well I am behind on my work now because I spent to much time talking to you. I can't change your mind, so I am just going to leave you alone.
This conversation reminds me of...(sm)
an event that took place during the Iraq war (not sure of the date, but I'm sure some of you will remember it). There was an Iraqi child who was (as well as many others) caugt in a bombing raid. It was all over the news about how the US military had given him provisional care and transported him from place to place, trying to get him to a place where he could be treated appropriately. Unfortunately (like many other Iraqi civilians) he eventually died. This in itself was not that remarkable, especially considering at the time the US was lobbing bombs into Iraq with the precision of a pumpkin-chunkin contest. What was remarkable, however, was when the doctor who was caring for the child came out and told the news of his death to the world. There were several questions entertained by the doctor from reporters, but the one that really struck home for me was one from a US reporter. The question was, do you think the boy understood what we are trying to do here? The boy that died was all of about 4 or 5 years old.
Not long after, the US decided to not show casualties in the news. The government unfortunately was right in assuming the out of sight, out of mind thing would work. It's amazing just how naive Americans can be.
This is a perfect example of what you would call American pride, honor, etc. Nevermind the people who die, just make sure we look good doing it. Again, I am not negating the value of the American soldiers here, they are simply doing what they've been told to do.
When you talk about soldiers helping the Iraqi people, exactly how are they helping them? Are they bringing them food and medicine because we have destroyed their infrastructure? Are they helping them find a place to stay because their house played catch with a US missle? Or are we just taking care of their kids because we took mommy and daddy to a torture camp? Believe me, we are doing much more harm than help. Have you noticed that Iraqi civilian casualties far outnumber the casualties of American soldiers? Where's the help for that?
And yes, I did have someone serving in Iraq.
This conversation reminds me of...(sm)
an event that took place during the Iraq war (not sure of the date, but I'm sure some of you will remember it). There was an Iraqi child who was (as well as many others) caugt in a bombing raid. It was all over the news about how the US military had given him provisional care and transported him from place to place, trying to get him to a place where he could be treated appropriately. Unfortunately (like many other Iraqi civilians) he eventually died. This in itself was not that remarkable, especially considering at the time the US was lobbing bombs into Iraq with the precision of a pumpkin-chunkin contest. What was remarkable, however, was when the doctor who was caring for the child came out and told the news of his death to the world. There were several questions entertained by the doctor from reporters, but the one that really struck home for me was one from a US reporter. The question was, do you think the boy understood what we are trying to do here? The boy that died was all of about 4 or 5 years old.
Not long after, the US decided to not show casualties in the news. The story above may have contributed to this, but the basic idea was that Americans didn't like to see Americans dead. The government unfortunately was right in assuming the out of sight, out of mind thing would work. It's amazing just how naive Americans can be.
This is a perfect example of what you would call American pride, honor, etc. Nevermind the people who die, just make sure we look good doing it. Again, I am not negating the value of the American soldiers: they are simply doing what they've been told to do.
When you talk about soldiers helping the Iraqi people, exactly how are they helping them? Are they bringing them food and medicine because we have destroyed their infrastructure? Are they helping them find a place to stay because their house played catch with a US missle? Or are we just taking care of their kids because we took mommy and daddy to a torture camp? Believe me, we are doing much more harm than help. Have you noticed that Iraqi civilian casualties far outnumber the casualties of American soldiers? Where's the help for that?
And yes, I did have someone serving in Iraq.
And yet you just keep dragging the conversation on and on and on....sm
If you don't want to discuss it on the political board, quit discussing it. 
But you complete ignored the rest of the post....
I am just shaking my head. It is amazing to me that anyone would think God is okay with abortion. I believe he is okay with personal choice, of course I do, my faith is based greatly on that belief. Someone makes a choice when they take any life, inside the womb or outside. That does not mean God condones murder. You are representing that the Bible, and therefore God, condones abortion, and I cannot wrap my mind around that. To follow your line of reasoning, I should be able to steal from you and not have the government interfere because it is my choice to steal from you and I have to answer only to my maker. If a person breaks into your house (his choice) and rapes you or kills you, (his choice), then he should be free to do so and only have to face his maker. Can you not see how destructive that line of thinking can become? You think that is ridiculous, but I promise you that 20 years ago people thought abortion was ridiculous, same sex marriage would horrify my parents...if left unchecked, horrible things can happen. The amazing thing is, the moral compass becomes so skewed that the horrible becomes the acceptable. As I said before, that kind thinking is what helped a madman rise to power, and thousands upon thousands of people either jumped on the bandwagon or turned their heads and condoned something horrific, on the premise that a whole race of people were inferior and subhuman and therefore it was all right to exterminate them. THAT is what happens when people begin to devalue life. I do not want that to EVER happen again, to ANYONE. I realize that is probably falling on deaf ears because I will get the rote I don't believe it is life again and you are unable to draw the parallel. You see, that is a fundamental difference between you and me...I care about what happens to you as an individual and what happens to this country and every person in it, so I gave it one last shot. It is hard for me to just walk away. But walk away I shall, because sometimes you have to. We shall have to agree to disagree, but I will keep standing for what I believe in and calling wrong what I believe is wrong, just as you do. God bless, Maryland Gal.
CNN working to get COMPLETE info.
Perhaps there is more to the story than sam is trying to insinuate...like some of the replies have been suggesting. Take a peek at O's record on Katrina.
http://thinkonthesethings.wordpress.com/2007/08/29/when-the-cameras-are-off-barack-obamas-hurricane-katrina-record/
1. Here is O's record on rebuilding after Hurriane Katrina
2. Sept. 2, 2005: Obama holds press conference urging Illinoisans to contribute to the Hurricane Katrina relief efforts.
3. Sept. 5, 2005: Obama goes to Houston to visit evacuees with Presidents Clinton and Bush.
4. Sept. 7, 2005: Obama introduces bill to create a national emergency family locator system
5. Sept. 8, 2005: Obama introduces bill to create a National Emergency Volunteers Corps. Sept. 8, 2005: Obama co-sponsors the Katrina Emergency Relief Act of 2005 introduced by Senator Harry Reid
6. Sept. 8, 2005: Obama co-sponsors the Hurricane Katrina Bankruptcy Relief and Community Protection Act of 2005 introduced by Senator Russ Feingold
7. Sept. 12, 2005: Obama introduces legislation requiring states to create an emergency evacuation plan for society’s most vulnerable
8. Sept. 15, 2005: Obama issues public response to President Bush’s speech about Gulf Coast rebuilding.
9. Sept. 21, 2005: Obama co-sponsors bill to establish a Katrina commission to investigate response to the disaster introduced by Hillary Clinton
10. Sept. 21, 2005: Obama appears on NPR to discuss the role of poverty in Hurricane Katrina.
11. Sept. 22, 2005: Obama and Coburn’s Hurricane Katrina financial oversight bill unanimously passes Senate committee.
12. Sept. 22, 2005: Obama’s amendment requiring evacuation plans unanimously passes Senate committee.
13. Sept. 28, 2005: Obama and Coburn issue statement about the need for a Chief Financial Officer to oversee the financial mismanagement and suspicious contracts occurring in the reconstruction process
14. Sept. 29, 2005: Obama and Coburn investigate possible FEMA refusal of free cruise ship offer
15. Oct. 6, 2005: Obama and Coburn issue statement on FEMA Decision to re-bid Katrina contracts
16. Oct. 6, 2005: Obama co-sponsors Gulf Coast Infrastructure Redevelopment and Recovery Act of 2005.
17. Oct. 21, 2005: Obama releases statement decrying the extension of FEMA director, Michael “Brownie” Brown’s contract. Obama calls Brown’s contract extension, “unconscionable.”
18. Nov. 17, 2005: Obama and Coburn introduce legislation asking FEMA to immediately re-bid all Katrina reconstruction contracts.
19. Feb. 1, 2006: Obama gives Senate floor speech on his legislation to help children affected by Hurricane Katrina
20. Feb. 2, 2006: Obama introduces legislation to help low-income children affected by Hurricane Katrina
21. Feb. 23, 2006: Obama issues statement responding to a White House report on Hurricane Katrina. Obama noted that the top two recommendations that the report had for the federal government were initiatives he had been working on since immediately after the storm hit. Obama called the administration’s response “delinquent.”
22. May 2, 2006: Obama gives speech about no-bid contracts in Hurricane Katrina reconstruction
23. May 4, 2006: Obama’s legislation to end no-bid contracts for Hurricane Katrina reconstruction passed the Senate.
24. June 15, 2006: Obama and Coburn announce legislation to require amendment to create competitive bidding for Hurricane Katrina reconstruction for federal contracts over $500,000. Although it passed previously, the language was stripped in conference.
25. June 15, 2006: Obama releases podcast about his pending Katrina reconstruction legislation in the Senate.
26. June 16, 2006: Obama and Coburn get no-bid Hurricane Katrina reconstruction amendment into Department of Defense authorization bill.
27. July 14, 2006: Obama and Coburn’s legislation to end abuse of no-bid contracts passes senate as amendment to Department of Defense authorization bill.
28. August 11, 2006: Obama visits Xavier University in New Orleans to give Commencement address
29. August 14, 2006: Obama and Coburn ask FEMA to address ballooning no-bid contracts for Gulf Coast reconstruction
30. Sept. 29, 2006: Obama and Coburn legislation to prevent abuse of no-bid contracts in the wake of disaster passes Senate to be sent to President’s desk to become law.
31. Feb. 2007-Present: As Obama begins his Presidential campaign he references Katrina as a part of his stump speech as he travels around the country in his familiar line, “That we are not a country which preaches compassion and justice to others while we allow bodies to float down the streets of a major American city. That is not who we are.”
32. June 20, 2007: Obama co-sponsors Gulf Coast Housing Recovery Act of 2007 introduced by Senator Chris Dodd.
33. July 27, 2007: Obama and colleagues get a measure in the Homeland Security bill that will investigate FEMA trailers that may contain the toxic chemical, formaldehyde.
34. Aug. 26, 2007: Obama outlines a detailed Hurricane Katrina recovery plan.
35. December 18, 2007: Obama calls on President Bush to protect affordable housing in New Orleans
36. February 16, 2008: Obama releases statement on toxic Gulf Coast trailers
We will soon find out once the investigation is complete
x
The investigation IS complete. Have you been sleeping? nm
.
Perhaps a complete history of this issue
is in order. I find a lot of "cut and paste" abounding in our world and you never get the complete TRUTH. I want the real McCoy before I would even venture to speculate on this issue. I can't imagine anyone would want to make porn available to children - perhaps the argument was about a lot more than this and the most shocking version was condensed to something such as this. And, people like this version so they refuse to educate themselves further.
I agree. This is a complete and utter...... sm
show of lack of respect for his family. They have lost a loved one and should be left alone in their time of grief. While I don't agree with his chosen profession, his family is not to blame and they are the ones being hurt by this, not him.
No, and please don't twist my words. The conversation is sm
that Hitler founded his total belief system on the three pillars I posted here, the first being Jews and Communism. I don't know how much more clear I can be frankly! Where in the world did I EVER say he was sane. I am talking about HISTORY. I am not quite sure what you are talking about!
Did you see the video of the conversation with the Fox reporter?
The BP was not a very nice guy
Nobody asked you to butt out of the conversation.
You are being asked to respect the SEPARATION between the politics board and the faith board. If all you have to offer is religious in nature, your post does not belong here.
This breaking news just in....religion and politics are only as "intricately intertwined" as the secular among us allow it to be. There seems to be a consensus in America as there is in other western nations that the two do not mix well and certainly are not conducive to democratic process. I am neither atheist, agnostic or Christian, but I do consider myself to be a spiritual person of Universalist faith. I count myself among the secular citizens who will fight tooth and nail to keep religion out of politics and out of the government. There is a place for it in our society and in our lives...churches, synagogues, mosques, temples our homes and in our psyches. Why is that not enough for the theocrats? This constant push to pervade is a REAL LIVE BUMMER. Cease and desist, won't you?
Your 2nd paragraph is complete and utter nonsense. sm
You wrote: 'Besides, a lot of atheists who try to disprove that God ever existed will usually come to the conclusion that there is too much evidence to prove that He does exist. It usually scares the you know what out of them and they become converts.'
And you know this how? I would say show me the evidence to back up this ridiculous claim, but I already know you have none. It's your opinion/religious propaganda, and it's blantantly false. You also have it backwards. You're implying people start out being athiest, then convert to religion. It's the other way around, when religious or secular people start questioning all the improbable/impossible things the bible is overflowing with, in addition to all of its inconsistenties and outright contradictions.
Forgive me if I doubt that you're an expert on athiests, and forgive me if I doubt your critical thinking skills, because religion frowns upon that - you're not supposed to question god or think for yourself, just obey his commands, or should I say, various human interpretations of his commands...
If there was indeed
'too much evidence to prove that He does exist' then everyone would believe in him. How could anyone deny it? They couldn't. But that's just it, there is no evidence to prove it, whereas there actually IS scientific evidence to the contrary, that you apparently are unaware of or haven't investigated.
Instead, you're willing to believe something based only on 'faith.' In every other area of your life where you'd want or even *demand* facts, proof, or concrete evidence before believing something so important, with religion (some) people are all too willing to blindly accept it on faith.
BTW, an athiest doesn't have to DISprove god (you can't prove a negative, anyway), you have to prove that he *does* exist, and you can't. And wouldn't you think if he really existed, he would prove it to the entire world's satisfaction anyway and put an end to the debate and all the relious wars, conflict, genocide, misery, suffering, etc? He'd rather we kill each over it? I think not. It makes no sense.
You also wrote: 'You can say all you want, but you just can't argue with a completely changed life'
Yes, I can argue it. You changed your life because *you* wanted to change it. You! Not some mystical, magical, invisible being in the sky who cares about your every thought and action. People change their lives for the better every day, without religion. IMO, if you hadn't found religion, you would've kept looking until you found something else that worked for you, and it probably would've been a lot healthier than the brainwashing, closed-minded, divisive phenomenon that is religion.
I have complete faith in John McCain. ...nm
x
Complete child exploitation. This is way scary..... nm
Why voting in the US is a complete waste of time
I've said it for years and years. This is an excellent article.
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article7095.html
Keith Olbermann is a complete fruitcake!
He sits and states that Texas gets 88% back of every dollar they send to the federal government but another states (midwest) only gets 40+%. Is he really that brainwashed? Does he not even think for a moment that Texas has to pay for all the illegals in their state and bear the burden of all the freebies these freeloaders gets? Healthcare, food, clothing, housing, and the lists go on and on to the tune of millions and millions. You better believe they need to get EVERY penny back... as far as I am concerned, 88% should be 100%.... BTW we all should be keeping our 100% earnings. Constitution states individual citizens are NOT to pay taxes to federal government, ONLY corporations.
Olbermann would kiss the backside of Hitler and bow at his feet if he were still alive. This man is absolutely sickening!
So did you get the complete roster when you joined the club?
I was making reference to an earlier conversation...sm
Look it up.
Hey...this whole thing started when YOU interrupted a conversation...
but I suppose you don't remember that...because you can't resist the knife jab. Yeah, transparent. How does your monstrous ego fit in yer little old head??
Barack says we need to have a conversation about race in America.?
Buchanan to Obama
By Patrick J. Buchanan
Barack says we need to have a conversation about race in America.?
Fair enough. But this time, it has to be a two-way conversation. White America needs to be heard from, not just lectured to.
This time, the Silent Majority needs to have its convictions, grievances and demands heard. And among them are these:
First, America has been the best country on earth for black folks. It was here that 600,000 black people, brought from Africa in slave ships, grew into a
community of 40 million, were introduced to Christian salvation, and reached the greatest levels of freedom and prosperity blacks have ever known.
Wright ought to go down on his knees and thank God he is an American.
Second, no people anywhere has done more to lift up blacks than white Americans. Untold trillions have been spent since the ླྀs on welfare, food stamps, rent supplements, Section 8 housing, Pell grants, student loans, legal services, Medicaid, Earned Income Tax Credits and poverty programs designed to bring the African-American community
into the mainstream.
Governments, businesses and colleges have engaged in discrimination against white folks -- with affirmative action, contract set-asides and quotas -- to advance black applicants over white applicants.
Churches, foundations, civic groups, schools and individuals all over America have donated time and money to support soup kitchens, adult education, day care, retirement and nursing homes for blacks.
We hear the grievances. Where is the gratitude??
Barack talks about new 'ladders of opportunity' for blacks.
Let him go to Altoona and Johnstown, and ask the white kids in Catholic schools how many were visited lately by Ivy League recruiters handing out scholarships for 'deserving' white kids.?
Is white America really responsible for the fact that the crime and inca rceration rates for African-Americans are seven times those of white America? Is it really white America's fault that illegitimacy in the African-American community has hit 70 percent and the black dropout rate from high schools in some cities has reached 50 percent?
Is that the fault of white America or, first and foremost, a failure of the black community itself?
As for racism, its ugliest manifestation is in interracial crime, and especially interracial crimes of violence. Is Barack Obama aware that while white criminals choose black victims 3 percent of the time, black criminals choose white victims 45 percent of the time?
Is Barack aware that black-on-white rapes are 100 times more common than the reverse, that black-on-white robberies were 139 times as common in the first three years of this decade as the reverse?
We have all heard adnauseam from the Rev. AL about Tawana Brawley, the Duke rape case and Jena. And all turned out to be hoaxes. But abo UT the epidemic of black assaults on whites that are real, we hear nothing.
Sorry, Barack, some of us have heard it all before, about 40 years and 40 trillion tax dollars ago.
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