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These numbers are taken out of context and distorted

Posted By: RightofLeft on 2005-08-09
In Reply to: The numbers - American Woman

Don't believe everything you read, especially from anti-American organizations like this that you cite.


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    what is distorted?

    I'm confused.  Is the distortion...


    - that the media has a liberal slant?


    - that John Stossel is unbiased?


    - that all scientists believe global warming is bad?


    - that the death threats weren't really death threats at all, but the teaser to the story insinuated such?


    And what do you mean that only Bush-bashers are clear? 


    Straight talk please!


    dont mistake your distorted

    opinion for fact.


     


    If you see things that are distorted or made up...
    dispute them.
    You've got a distorted idea of what welfare is.
    momentarily but I'm going to take it to the top. People who are disadvantaged and live in poverty are exactly what is meant by "the least among you." I live in the bullseye of Ike. People who live in areas where they share a common bond or interest know what it means when it comes time to step up to the plate and help our neighbors to weather a storm. In the middle of announcing phased evacuation advisories, route information and storm preparation instuctions, our mayor emphasized the need for us to do just that. I am proud of him and of our community for understanding our shared humanity. If you don't get that basic concept, there will be much in life that will pass you by. That's a shame.
    The numbers

    If there's one thing that surprises me about the ratio, it's that I truly believe it's a much higher number of soldiers that suffers from PTSD.  I believe this is a disease that doesn't show itself immediately, so my bet would be that these numbers will rise dramatically, assuming the entire truth is shared with us by the government, once this is all said and done.


    ISP numbers

    The administrator of this site has her pets (some of the Conservatives on the Politics board, for example), no doubt about that, and has done some bizarre things with people's posts and ISP numbers.  Just check page 3 on the Company board under the thread dated 8/18 transcend job - looking for work and see the administrator's defense of this company.  I thought it was bizarre, and she was even questioned as to her connection with this particular company, which she didn't answer, and instead responded indicating that she had tracked ISP numbers of some posters and made some sort of accusation that I didn't understand, but I think it had to do with one poster using more than one moniker.  I can't find where she has jumped to the defense of any other company.  It did seem to stop people from posting about the company, though, which I assume was her intent.  I mean, who can feel free to post anything about a company, especially if they are still employed there, if they are afraid their ISP will be tracked if the administrator doesn't agree with the person's opinion of the company? 


    Just be careful what you post on these boards.  Big Sister is definitely watching and is taking down numbers.


    Having said that, wouldn't surprise me if my ISP is tracked and compared now.  Probably just time to leave this site altogether and find one I can trust.  It's just not worth it any more.


    Nine numbers.

    1. 1,841 soldiers killed in Iraq as of August 12, 2005.


    2.  $300 billion spent on the Iraq war as of August 12, 2005.


    3. 0 - number of WMD found in Iraq.


    4.  4 - the multiple by which North Korea has increased its nuclear weapons arsenal while George Bush led us into Iraq.


    5. $236 billion - the surplus Bill Clinton left George Bush.


    6. $333 billion - the current deficit under G.B.


    7. 1 in 5 - the number of American children below the poverty line - an increase of 13% since Bush took office.


    8. 5 million - the number of people who have lost their health insurance since Bush took office.


     


    9. 0 - the number of mistakes Bush admits to making during his first term.


    And the scandals...Supreme Court right off the bat, corporation scandals, Enron et. al. , Iraq lies and stupidity, hurricane scandal, Michael Brown, Chertoff, Delay, Frist, Scooter, homeland security debacle...it just goes on and on and on. I really think that finally the jig is up for Bush et al. Some pretty well respected tenured people in his own party have had about enough and are becoming vocal about it...Thank God.


     


    Numbers do not mean a whole lot...
    when you consider that SIX of them took out THREE THOUSAND of our people. And it would only take a handful of them with dirty suitcase bombs to do unmeasured damage to this country. Not to mention a handful with bombs strapped on them in malls across this country. Teddy, friend, you better WAKE up. And don't think for a minute that the so-called peace-loving Muslims in the world won't jump on the bandwagon when the tide turns in their direction. If they are so peace loving, why are they not standing on rooftops and denouncing what is being done in the name of their peace-loving religion? Put their money where their mouth is so to speak. Curiously silent are they. That should speak volumes to you. Look at Iran...there are a lot of people there who might want a different life, but they are not willing to buck those in power to get it. And neither are any of the other millions of peace loving Muslims around the world, or they would be taking care of this problem in their ranks THEMSELVES. How do you rationalize that??
    The numbers in the name actually
    Refer to numerology, not the number of letters in the name. This works as follows.
    1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
    a b c d e f g h I
    j k l m n o p q r
    s t u v w x y z

    So Barack Hussein Obama would be 2+1+9+1+3+2+8+3+1+1+5+9+5+6+2+1+4+1
    This comes to 64. When you have a 2 digit number, you add those together. So Obama, a 64, reduces to 10, which reduces to a 1. That's the name.

    You have a different # for the date of birth, which is the life path. You add the day, month and year (all digits) and reduce the same as above. The numbers you don't reduce are 11 and 22. Those are master numbers and stand alone.

    You can also do this for every day of the week, month, year, etc.

    Now these are numbers you don't hear about.
    Nearly 28,000 soldiers who served in Iraq and were discharged have already sought care at a VA facility. Of the nearly 245,000 veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan already discharged from service, 12,422 have been in VA counseling centers for readjustment problems and symptoms associated with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.
    Not emails. ISP numbers.

    Last week on the company board, someone asked about a certain company. I worked for this company.  I responded to the post as honestly as I could.


    My post was responded to by the administrator who defended the company and suggested that all the problems were caused by my sound card and not the terrible platform that this company has.  (It's a company-wide issue, and this problem is experienced by most employees.)


    Someone else responded, confirming what I said to be true and wondering what the administrator's connection to this company was.  This was never answered by the administrator.


    The administrator instead responded to her OWN post (subsequently disputed by another poster) as I have copied and pasted below.


    This made me wonder what motivated this administrator to go through the trouble of tracking ISP numbers of posters.  She must have some sort of personal connection to it, so other posters posting about other companies MIGHT be safe, but who knows?  Obviously, if someone is unhappy at this particular company and posts her experiences on the board, only to have the administrator track her ISP number, that causes concern as to whether the administrator is sharing these ISP numbers with this company.  For that reason, I don't trust this site or the administrator any more, and I'm searching for another, more ethical site to frequent.  It's one thing to come to a political board and express your opinion.  It's quite another to do it on the company board where people's jobs could be in jeopardy for speaking the truth.


    Ok, what I see are the same IP ranges for some of these posts where sound quality is





    [Post a Reply] [View Follow Ups] [Company Board]


    Posted By: Administrator (sm) on 2005-08-19
    In Reply to: Are you sure the sound quality was the platform and not your sound card? Also, I don't know of ma - Administrator nm

    concerned.  The same poster claimed that the services VR was released too soon, yet another poster says they are making good money.  Someone isn't being fair and it's the person posting the same thing more than once. 


    The rest of the numbers. TI

    This is reality in Israel: From 29 September 2000 through 11 January 2003:
    5,041 injured, 717 killed, 15,992 attacks

    IDF Spokesperson 12 January 2003

    Injured: 3,585 Civilians + 1,456 Security Forces = 5,041 Total Israeli Injured

    Killed: 503 Civilians + 214 Security Forces = 717 Total Israeli Killed

    Total Attacks*: 7,139 West Bank + 8,203 Gaza Strip + 650 Home Front =15,992 Total

    * Does not include attacks with rocks or fire bombs.

    This is a death toll greater (in proportion) than America suffered on 9/11 and the American people would never tolerate this! So why should Israel have to endure this year after year while the world does nothing? The same people that hate Israel are the same people that hate America!


    I see these numbers are through 2003...sm
    Had the conflict calmed down from 2003 - 2006?

    Also, mind you, the death and injury toll I posted above is from this latest one month conflict alone.
    Whose numbers? Limbaugh's
    Proof please.  He's still #1 on the talk radio circuit.  If he loses a few thousands here and there it's hardly a drop in the bucket.  Liberal shows can hardly keep their power on.  There's really not an argument there.  The proof is in black and white.
    Exactly - verifiable numbers

    are presented.  I can get past whether SP is her friend or her mortal enemy.  Give me the meat, I'll go from there.


     


    Maybe she should give someone else the numbers
    xyz
    Unemployment numbers
    The unemployment numbers came out at over 6%, but the number of people working part-time who would prefer full-time would actually be 1 in 10, leading to around 11%.  10 million people are unemployed right now in US.  That is a lot of people needing help and it looks like a lot more are going to need  help.
    Except for your numbers don't account for everything
    Do you have any idea how many people, especially minorities in Georgia work "under the table"?

    And obviously if an African American is employed and a white is not, then the African American makes more.

    Don't even get me started on welfare and how minorities get first dibs on that too.

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again: It was never about equality, it was about payback. Minorities have more opportunities than ever and more help than ever, while lower and middle class white people are just SOL. They can't get food stamps, they can't get scholarships, they can't get any kind of help the way minorities can.


    I don't think you will get it...Re-read the numbers I posted...nm

    Those numbers are GROSSLY exaggerated. sm
    By  most counts, even CNN, maybe 100,000.  Funny, but two weeks ago, there was a prolife march in Washington with over 100,000.  I never saw anything about that on the news.  Tell me again they are not liberal.
    Some grossly minimized the numbers sm
    I think the DC Big Brother cams in Washington counted 125,000. Count inside the Mall was 300,000. I do not what figure is accurate, but from pictures I saw the Mall was filled. There was a lot of people there.

    The media are corporate and work for the state, not the people. The American people are seriously uninformed and misinformed because of it. This is why we are called The Sleeping Giant in other countries.
    I think you're numbers are wrong. The top 5% of
    the U.S. makes millions and billions. $200,000 is NOT the 'top 5%' of the country. It's definitely more than a single, head-of-household MT makes, but depending on where you live, it won't put you in that mansion on the hill, either.

    When he talks about raising taxes on the top 5%, he's not talking about YOU. He's talking about people like Bill Gates. He's talking about huge corporations (like the oil industry, tobacco industry, HMO & insurance industries, etc.) that rake it in, and then have a jillion and a half loopholes and secret cubbyholes to stash it in.


    Then give me the numbers and let me compare them....
    simple enough request.
    You only seem to understand numbers on paper,
    live in the real world? Don't you see, hear and read about this and other issues every single day?

    What would be the point in producing a numbers, especially to you? Numbers can be tweeked and skewed to produce whatever result you want them to. (Not unlike the words in the Bible, or the Quran, for that matter).

    You know EXACTLY what I and others on this board are talking about when we present our views on the issues, and your constant response, 'Show me the numbers', has gotten a little too repetitive to have much in the way of value.
    Denial won't turn those numbers around.
    I wouldn't expect too much out of the debate tomorrow either, especially McC caves and makes good on his threat to talk about Ayers. Can you say plunging numbers?
    If your not hung up on numbers then don't post about it.
    I'm not defending Bush, I'm just getting tired of the Bush bashing. I addressed that below too.

    I didn't say you thought Bush was cute or funny, I said you think your comments are cute and funny (they are not).

    Bush IS an embarrassment. I will be glad he is not the president anymore. I'm just tired of the Bush bashing and comments made about his IQ (which you did). We get it already, you don't like him. Not sure many do, but enough is enough.

    Yes, it's been a hard 8 years. The fact is its been a hard 16 years. Clinton was no better with his gomer pyle attitude and shucks and golly gee. He disgraced the office way long before GW ever took over. The blame for disgracing the office begins with him.

    I do hope to see some trials come up. He and the rest of the crew should be held accountable for what they did, but the Bush bashing is getting real old and when you make statements like "A triple digit IQ will be a welcome change for the country" when you know that Bush has a triple digit (that is if you read any websites) your comments are just as offensive as all the other lies put out. I'd find it equally repugnant if people put down and lied about Obama and said he had just a double digit IQ. These lies are getting old.

    I'll be glad that Bush is leaving, but there is no reason to celebrate yet. The country is in a world of hurt and we don't know what kind of person Obama is yet. I don't have high hopes as I see people losing their jobs, homes, health care, retirements, etc. That is nothing to be celebrating. If Obama does good and the economy picks up heck yeah, I'm going to be celebrating but not until then. I will celebrate on the anniversary of him being in office, or depending on what happens I will be looking forward to the next election.

    You keep trying to defend yourself against what you said, but I find nothing but offense to your original post.

    No matter what each of their IQ scores were Obama graduated from Columbia and Harvard, and Bush graduated from Yale and Harvard. You have to be smart to get into those schools. Both of them are. Bush's actions he has displayed - not so great in my books, but neither is Obama's past and what he had done, and especially who he is picking for his cabinet. Definitely not anything to celebrate. I celebrated when they left office along with The Impeached Clinton. Now those nincompoops are back??? Definitely nothing to be celebrating there!

    Just please, enough with Bush bashing and calling him names. It's getting real old real fast.
    Hte to break this to you, but the rating numbers
    say NOTHING about where millions and millions and millions of Americans really go for their news. The internet has given us access to global media. MSNBC is still mainstream and, as a leftie, I can tell you that I find their coverage almost as frustrating as CNN and Fixed News. I need the much broader perspective found on local, national and international English-speaking radio talk shows and news accounts from outside the homeland borders found on the net.

    I suspect I'm not the only one, considering the numbers reflected in these ratings are so puny when compared to the actual number of adult US citizens who have soundly rejected US monovision mainstream media outlets all together. Then there is the other side of the coin, those Americans who do not listen to the news at all because mainstream is SUCH a turn-off.
    Unemployment numbers. What is 12.5 Million?
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,506405,00.html


    What I do not get is it states 4.4 million jobs have been lost since the recession began, but now at 12.5 million. So, about 8 million have been unemployed during, well, basically this year and last year? I guess I am in SHOCK a it is hard for me to want to believe it.

    *************************

    Unemployment by the Numbers: How Bad Is It Hurting?

    Friday, March 06, 2009

    * Print
    * ShareThis

    More people are unemployed in America than live in Ohio or go to church in Texas.

    Unemployment statistics don't usually leap off the page, but the latest report from the Department of Labor offers some astounding figures. More than 651,000 jobs were cut in February, continuing a steep drop that has raised the unemployment rate to 8.1 percent, its highest level since 1983.

    Matched up against some of the latest stats made available by the Census Bureau, those numbers really do begin to add up.

    • 651,000 jobs were axed in February, a number larger than the populations of:
    - Baltimore
    - Seattle
    - Denver
    - El Paso
    - Washington, D.C.

    • 12.5 million people are unemployed in the U.S., which is more than the number of:
    - people watching ABC's "Lost" this season
    - women attending college
    - male scientists and engineers
    - Americans who grow herbs
    - people who played tackle football in the past year.

    • 12.5 million people is also a number larger than the populations of 45 states, including
    - Ohio
    - Pennsylvania
    - Michigan
    - Virginia

    • 4.4 million jobs have been lost since the recession began in December 2007, which is larger than the population of the entire San Francisco Bay Area.

    • 2.6 million jobs have been lost in the past four months, which is like every Presbyterian in America getting the ax in one winter, or about the number of senior citizens in Florida.

    • 8.6 million people have been forced to work part-time for economic reasons, which is more than the population of New York City, or more than the number of people who try to quit smoking every year.

    The roll continues, and it is a stark one: construction companies eliminated 104,000 jobs in February, factories cut 168,000 jobs, retailers sliced nearly 40,000, professional and business services got rid of 180,000, financial companies reduced payrolls by 44,000, and leisure and hospitality firms chopped 33,000 positions.

    Despite all the doom and gloom in the Labor Department's numbers, at least one sector had a pretty rosy February: the government boosted its number of employees last month.

    Click here to see the Labor Department report.

    Numbers aren't looking good for

    Only 38% of Americans now think the country is headed in the right direction.


    Only 42% favor universal healthcare, and when those who favor it are told that they will probably lower their level of coverage and increase their waiting times,  fewer than 20% support it.


    59% oppose legalizing marijuana and taxing it.  And, when the amount of taxes this would actually raise is given as a percent of the national budget (less than 0.003%) and the potential costs to society are explained, the number who oppose the idea rises to nearly 80%.


    Obama's approval index remains low at only +6 (% who strongly approve minus % who strongly disapprove of him).  He started at around +30.


    A generic Democrat and generic Republican continue to run neck-and-neck in a hypothetical race proposed to voters - +1 to -2 points either way.  Not long ago, the generic Democrat was beating the Republican by a substantial margin but this is no longer the case.


    The American voter is waking up - and Democrats attending the wake for the Republican party will look up from their drunken revelry to find that the deceased has jumped out of the coffin and is now vigorously engaged in kicking them in their sorry arses.  It seems he was never dead in the first place.  Consternation reigns. 


    If this is your philosophy, why are you throwing Bush's numbers around...sm
    as if you are proud that he is spending more on social programs than Clinton. Just trying to understand your thinking?
    I noticed that Druge and AOL had wayyy different numbers
    so there
    no numbers, ideas, detail or plan......

    What do you call?......link: http://www.americablog.com/2009/03/what-do-you-call-budget-with-no-numbers.html


    Thursday, March 26, 2009



    What do you call a budget with no numbers, no ideas, no detail and no plan? The House Republican budget



    DailyKosTV has great video from the big announcement of the GOP budget today. The big news is that there really is no GOP budget. No numbers, no ideas, no details, no plan. They are the party of "NO" -- No future:

    Correction. Latest numbers show a 6.5 lead.
    how many seats in Congress adn the Senate the democrats gained? The message seems pretty clera to me. How do you keep that hatred from eating you up from the inside out? Obama won because desptie GOP's best efforts, they trust their future more to him than McCain. No amount of negativity can change the feeling of uplift, hope, excitement and enthusiasm for our President-elect. I feel sorry for you that you seem so determined to keep yourself down in the mud pit. Election's over. Your party needs your attention. Your country needs your help. Go figure.
    Out of context? Hardly, LOL!

    Oh, the quote definitely is not out of context and the world and most of America realizes it, that is, the part of America that isnt brain washed by the radical neocons or radical christian movement, you know, the normal Americans, not the Bush sheeple..Posting on other boards?  Many years experience here, also many years experience on Yahoo groups and political chat rooms, so I dont need *lessons*.  Thank you.  Oh, also years experience in the local democratic party and government..Been a political person since high school.


    take what she says out of context, yet again....
    and go ahead, bring up the beauty accessories, yet again....ho hum....you're the ones that keep it alive and are so transparently unable to talk real issues.
    Please put them all in context, then, please...sm
    . I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Please give surrounding text of these statements.
    They don't want to see the context
    They say dems don't want to do research, but it goes both ways.
    I don't know exactly the context...sm
    but I did hear something on the news regarding "white male construction workers" did not need to apply for something...like I said, I am not sure of the context but I did hear something like that on the news.
    There is NO CONTEXT that can make it better.
    You all keep saying taken out of context but you don't offer one iota of evidence to show this makes a bit a difference, or say why. Anytime someone is quoted the words are taken out of context.

    Why don't you put your point on the line and explain why it makes a difference in this case?
    Taken COMPLETELY out of context
    You liberals will go to any all lengths to take down this president down even lying. Personally, the president can take care of his self, and he doesn't need me to defend him, but you took so many statements out of context here it's not funny. Most people have been thankful for their evacuation, but the media has targeted the ingrates. This is not the issue here though. The issue is that you all have it in for the president, conservatives or any one who doesn't think exactly like you. If someone disagrees or has an opinion different than you you immediately yell attack. Your agenda is very clear, pathetic but clear.
    The words out of context...sm
    Were the words he spoke himself on NBC Nightly News. His words were not altered. They were followed by an opinion with which he does not agree, but that does not make the documentary a LIE.
    The words out of context
    When you twist someone's words and give an opinion following that cannot be contested by the speaker, fully intending that your opinion be attributed to the speaker as truth...that, my friend, is a lie. And it is not the only lie in that mocumentary. Michael Moore never has had taste (Bowling for Columbine) and he never will. The fact that people buy into his anger and hatred and gloss it over as a documentary still boggles the mind.
    A little context before retreat.

    Yes, I know your post appeared before Cease Fire.  As soon as I pressed the Post Reply button, there you were, right back up there taking one last “shot”…your words, not mine.  Cease fire…broken before it even began.  That would suggest that the 3rd person rules of engagement never applied either.  You have made it quite clear that you prefer the garbage-out/garbage in approach…again, just dancing to your tune.  Remember the part about someone always being around to answer bigotry’s call-to-arms?  Thus, the gloves stay off for the time being.  Besides, your rejection of the olive branch is fairly apparent by now. 


     


    He’s my friend, not my therapist.  He still has so many issues of his own, he would be the first one to say that he’s the one who needs the couch.  He is brilliant when it comes to helping others, just not when it comes to helping himself.  We have known each other for 42 years.  He actually seeks my advice, and I his..it’s personal, not professional. 


     


    The economics is way to vast to get into for the time being.  May another time, but in terms of what we spend to “support” illegals, that amount is a drop in the bucket when compared to the profits generated for transnational corporations (those guys who actually run the country) in the maquilidoras in Mexico and the cheap labor pool they create once they cross that porous border.  So yeah, I got some 4-letter words on that subject.  Just ask yourself this fundamental question.  Who stands to gain/profit from all this?  As long as the transnationals’ bottom line is in the black, they have no motive to “fix” this “problem.”  Don’t hold your breath.  This is what global economy looks like.    


     


    The yada, yada, yada was not referring to the path to citizenship.  I was talking about entering with legal status.  Let’s put a face on a case.  I had a Filipino friend (fellow MT) back in 1983, who entered on a work visa and applied for permanent residence.  That took 3 years.  She waited.  No problem.  Then she tried to apply for her 5 children.  By 1986, the laws relative to family unification requirements had changed.  In 1983, she only would have had to wait another 5 years (AFTER becoming a resident) for approval to sponsor HER OWN CHILDREN.  Whoops.  No so fast.  By 1986, that generous 5-year wait had been doubled to (count ‘em) 10 years for Filipinos.  She traveled back and forth over those years while immigration did its thing to see her children and husband, who had stayed behind to raise them in her absence. 


     


    Her kids were school age when she when she started this.  By the time they were all together again, her youngest was a sophomore in college.  She waited.  She did it all nice and legal.  Excuses, excuses, excuses?  Good things come to those who wait?  What’s so great about a mother missing 13 years of her children’s lives?  Was it worth it?  The price they paid was way too high.  They had all become so disillusioned and had lost so much, within 5 years after completing the process, the entire family turned around and went back to the Philippines.  So much for THEIR Ameican dream and playing by the rules.  Maybe good riddance to some, a tragic shame to others.  That’s just one case….and yeah, there are plenty of 4-letter words that reveal just how many others there were.  Things have gotten a whole lot worse since then, but your party still insists these arcane laws are “too liberal” to suit them.  Puh-leeze.  So no, I don’t pick and choose laws that suit me.  Simply stated, bad laws need to be changed, or eliminated all together.  


     


    No national spokesperson here.  Just a lifetime of experience (sorry, Sam, you left yourself wide open by trying to be so cute).  U of H, 1967…that pesky urban academic forum you love to hate.  Free speech for all students was encouraged and accommodated back then.  Alongside Viet Nam War, civil rights and nascent women’s lib protests were the highly visible and vocal Arabs and Iranians, here on student visas, nice and legal, the way you claim you like it.  Their issues were:



    1. The 6-day war, when US-backed Israel stepped up its bloodthirsty quest to drive an entire Palestinian population into the refugee diaspora by expanding its illegal occupations of Syria and Egypt.  They created some great future killing fields in Golan and Gaza by rearranging a few borders and chopping up the West Bank like a piece of cheap mortadella, sending millions of refugees fleeing into Jordan, which has never been the same, Syria, Europe and the US.   

    2. The pros and cons of Arab political unity as an appropriate response to such blatant aggression and invasion.  Now this idea scares the pants off the US.  If the Arabs were ever to unify, and especially if they ally themselves with Iran, the world power that would create could crush US superpower ambitions with its eyes shut.  US was really nervous about that prospect.  Not hard to figure why they have spent trillons of dollars since 1948 (Israel's birthday) and turned a blind eye to all that bloodshed in an effort to keep that region just as destabilized as possible.  Where's the outrange over that expense?  Oil makes countries do some crazy stuff. 

    3. The formation of the OPEC states as organized by the Shah of Iran, the puppet monarch the US backed after their successful early 1950s coup that removed Mosadegh, the secular democratic prime minister who wanted to eliminate Western control and nationalize Iran’s oil.  Democracy in the Middle East?  Right.  “Oil”agarchy?  Nothing new under the sun.  Imperialism?  Old as the hills. 

    4. The subsequent withdrawal of US backing for the Shah when he had the audacity to take a page out of Mosadegh’s book to suggest that Iran should control it OWN oil resources. 

    5. The rise of a multitude of Iranian political parties, including the strengthening and empowerment of those nasty Islamic fundamentalists that eventually seized control. 

    6. The overthrow of the US puppet monarch who, by that time, had systematically imprisoned, tortured and executed his opposition behind the scenes, ultimately turning Islamic party leadership into national martyrs, making it really easy for them to step right in and take over.  Not a great choice for a puppet.  Can you say "human rights?"

    7. The outpouring of refugees from Iran in the aftermath, trying to escape the same-song-second-verse torture, imprisonment and executions under the new leadership.  My husband was one of the lucky ones who made it out in time.  Things were a bit hectic for him in the middle of the blood bath, there being a revolution and all.  No time for a visa.  Declared asylum when he got to  Germany and was approved.    

    8. The 1951-1952 CIA-backed coup has been acknowledged by our own government and US tax dollars transfered from the US to the Israel treasury...a matter of public record, so "frankly, I don't believe it" isn't going to cut it.  I could give you some more 4-letter words, but time is short.  As you can see, this is not exactly democratic party line I'm spouting here.  No mouthpiece on this mouth.  This is information that is not served up by the US news media outlets either.  You can hear a lot about it from news broadcasts from other countries and there is a ton of information to sift through on the net should one feel so inclined.     

    This is not some angry tirade or “tude” I harbor.  Not trying to condescend or educate anyone here.  History simply is not your friend, Sam, so keep those elitist accusations on the tip of your tongue where they belong.  In any case, I was just like you, at first.  Beat my patriotic chest, fought tooth and nail, until I finally started to acknowledge my own bias and prejudice against “foreigners” and decided to look into it all.  Started reading up on the subject, listening more and talking less, checking facts, etc.  Picked up a keen interest in all flavors of foreign policy.  Changed my life for the better forever.  Made friends along the way of all sorts and persuasions, over many decades, by now, way too numerous to count.  Studied together, had lots of fun, ate dinners with them and their families, baby sat their kids, went to weddings, house warmings, baby showers and funerals, shed bucket of tears, learned respect for their customs and cultures. 


     


    I married once to an Arab for 12 years, went overseas and lived with the family for 2 years in Madaya, a RURAL village 40 miles west of Damascus in the Bekka Valley.  Most beautiful orchards you ever laid eyes.  Too bad the skies over this particular pastoral scene were often darkened by the storm clouds of war.  That was the year Israel tried to push itself all the way to Beruit, a mere 45 miles to the west of us, decimating whole villages in the wake of that land grab (been so many, I've lost count)…but not quite as gory as their most recent offensive into Lebanon.  Israeli fighter jets (bank-rolled by good ole’ American tax dollars,) would often fly so fast and so low under the radar screen they sounded like they were getting ready to crash into the house.  This would send us all scrambling to the floor, nose to the ground and hands clenched tightly behind our heads in a hopeless attempt to somehow feel safer, where we would cower for a couple of minutes until it was over.  Kind of reminiscent of those war photos from Sadr City and Mosul when American soldiers ransacked those villages in search of insurgents, going door-to-door, breaking in with the butt of their rifles, sending civilian old men, women and children dropping like flies in the absence of all military-age male family members (out trying to protect everybody), as the GI planted his boot into the small of an Iraqi teenager’s back, shaking like a leaf.  Just how proud, safe and strong do you think that “should” make me feel? 


     


    Later married that Iranian refugee I spoke of earlier.  Got in-laws abroad and here.  My husband has difficulty accepting the idea that he may never see his mother, father, 3 brother(s), sister(s)-in-law, nephew and neice, aunts, uncles and cousins.  We make do with weekly phone calls.  My son is a native-born citizen, with very much of a westernized hyphenated Iranian side to his identity….American-Iranian, according to him.  My sister lives in Tehran with her husband and her own 12-year-old American citizen American-Iranian/Iranian-American son.  Hope they don’t get caught up in the aftermath of the latest nuclear flap and proposed American diplomatic efforts.  You’ll forgive me if I a bit suspicious of Bush’s stunning reversal of “we don’t negotiate with terrorists” mantra.  An “American interests section?”  Indeed.  Don’t look for the Iranian madman to agree to another CIA spy dugout in the middle of his capital city any time soon.  Shades of ignored WMD inspector reports and manufactured “intelligence” (give me a break) findings.  I take little comfort in the fact that he is running out of time for another Middle East invasion/fiasco. 


     


    Through it all, I have engaged myself with immigration law, starting back in college, trying to help different nationalities navigate the stormy waters of the LEGALIZATION process.  Furthermore, because of my husband’s political refugee status, we are well acquainted with Homeland Security (DHS) issues.  One of our friends is a DHS regional director.  He is an advocate for immigrant rights and reform, legal and illegal…a position he takes after his retirement from INS after 30 years and 5 years with DHS.  Probably knows a thing or 2.  He can’t wait for the inauguration.  Says his job will be a lot easier and kinder once McCain or Obama take office, since they both support immigration reform.  Looking forward to going to sleep with a cleaner conscience, he says. 


     


    Anger?  Not exactly.  Passion?  You bet.  Please forgive me if I feel like I might have something of substance to bring into this debate.  I take these issues very seriously since were are talking about my families, my friends.  In my experience (not some passage out of some old dusty textbook), these are matters of life and death.  I may be a little far out in left field to suit you, but I feel I have at least earned my stripes.  I am no less American than anyone else born and raised here.  Keep in mind that I am not by myself here either.  The last 2 elections were too, too close to support that notion.     


     


    You will be relieved to hear this.  That’s all the time I have right now.  One thing we all can see about you is you somehow feel if you get the last word, it must be the best word.  Ain’t necessarily so, but at least for the time being, you can have it your way.  Have no intention to leave the remainder of your slanderous post unanswered.  Debate is suspended from this side due to the job hunt thing, but certainly not finished by any means.  


     


    One thing I look forward to is the (un)Cival War discussion.  Maybe you can enlighten me as to how to construe a war which produced more than half a million deaths of various sorts in 4 years was about anything except some of the same fundamental issues that divide us to this day…the economics and human rights issues that surrounded slavery then, the common thread that divides us, then and now, being the bigotry of it all.  Will follow your advice and read up on the Republican party, but before playing the Abraham Lincoln was a Republican card, better bone up on how your party platform has reversed itself on most issues since it formation in the early 1850s.  HisRepublican Party in no way resembles the GOP of today.  Confusing?  Yes.  Alas, another 4 letter word for you. 


     


    I appreciate your parting “shot.”  Wouldn’t want to let a little thing like a hurricane sink OUR hot air balloons (pleural). now, would we?  Enjoy your last word and the sabbatical.  Gonna get swallowed up by poverty if I don’t find a job soon. 


     


    The real context for this

    manufactured outrage is to create the impression that O and media are against SP.  That way, as more and more damaging information is revealed with investigations by reporters in alaska, hopefully the limited-information voters will disregard the facts that are revealed.


     


    Let's put it in proper context....
    she said if Georgia became a member of NATO, then according to the NATO agreement all NATO signatories (US is one of them) have to come to the aid if any of the NATO countries are invaded. She gave the correct answer.

    You do know that Obama intends to see the war in Afghanistan continue and wants to send troops from Iraq there, right? The anti-war candidate?
    She didn't take anything out of context. - sm
    I saw the speech too, and that's exactly what she said. I'll bet there were a lot of surprised looks and people going 'Huh??' in the audience.
    pulled out of any context

    whatsoever to inflame prejudice.  shameful, shameful behavior. 


     


    then give us the context
    and prove your point.
    See link for context.
    It took one quick Google search to find!

    http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/did_obama_write_that_he_would_stand.html
    In the true context.
    I see you have no comment regarding the blatant inaccuracy of the original post.
    in the true context

    of the True Believers, oh grand puhba. Everyone grab match.