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Who's God? Your God? My God? Earth, Wind and Fire?

Posted By: sm on 2009-02-11
In Reply to: ALWAYS WILL BABY. - IN GOD WE TRUST.

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fighting fire with fire doesn't work
We have been hitting each other over the head with clubs since Early Man.  The American military has killed innocents, too.  I do not think Americans are more deserving of anything than anyone else who inhabits this planet.  We are all human beings with families and feelings and lives.  Perhaps its time to drop the weapons and communicate for a change. 
fight fire with fire
We need to **take it there** more often and louder.  We have been too quiet, too politically correct and where has it gotten us?  The republicans have been smearing democrats and each election has had nothing but dirty tricks from the republicans.  This past election, Kerry tried to be on the up and up, not personally attacking..What did the republicans do?  Secretly paid for a group to smear Kerry and his Vietnam War record.  When Bush was asked, he said he had nothing to do with the group.  Baloney!  It was backed by the republican party.  That is the way Rove and Bush are, they smear their opponents.  Time to fight fire with fire.  No more Mr. Nice Guy.
Wow, we are wee weeing in the wind here. nm

They are waiting in the wind for the day...sm
to bring the Lords of the Talking Loud and Saying Nothing back full swing.

This was a good read.
you must mean "whine" although it is a lot of wind too.
x
What gets me is this prevailing wind of "otherness"
Houston is located on the west side of a man-made ship channel that sevices the petrochemical industrial complex. Whenever we get hot, humid winds from the east, a foul stench of sulfur, oil, carbon and the like blankets the city. It is oppressive and inescapable.

The sentiments expressed in these hateful rants make those conditions seem like a a breeze coming off a grassy meadow full of jasmine and lavender. These "they-sayers" are not living in the same America where I grew up and I will do everything in my power to make sure that my own chidren do not inherit that kind of world after I'm gone.
now, Praire Wind, we find
in Bill Ayer's book, (hard to find, 1974), has the forward dedicating his book to a number of radicals, including Sirhan Sirhan who killed Pres. Kennedy, and STILL, the democrats do not have a problem with Obama's association with this man????
Wind turbines. They are on top of a mountain

in my area. The company is going to build 51 more. There goes the view for sure! The people that live in the valley below this mountain are always complaining about them.


Seriously, not every state can, or will go along with wind turbines. They're big, ugly, and noisy. They do not provide jobs for local people. They do provide jobs for the company maintaining them.


You're so easy to wind up. LOL. nm
nm
Bill and Hillary do tend to wind....
that's correct.
The answer my friend is blowing in the wind...


by: William Rivers Pitt, t r u t h o u t | Columnist




Glenn

Glenn Beck. (Photo: Jennifer Ackerman / Deseret Morning News)



Idiott wind, blowing like a circle around my skull,
From the Grand Coulee Dam to the Capitol.
Idiott wind, blowing every time you move your teeth,
You're an idiott, babe.
It's a wonder that you still know how to breathe.

- Bob Dylan



    One thing is certain: martial arts movie star Chuck Norris does not like President Obama. Not at all. Not one little bit. Norris dislikes Obama so much, in fact, that he discussed running for the office of president of Texas, which doesn't exist, as part of a larger move by him and a variety of other right-wing groups to overthrow the American government and return honor and decency to the country.


    No, really, he said all that, and more. Read it yourself if you don't believe me. The best part is where he writes, "Remember the Alamo!" Great stuff.


    Or something.


    There's more. The owner of right-wing web forum Free Republic, Jim Robinson, was recently forced to post a truly deranged piece of apologia regarding the attention his web site recently earned from the Secret Service. "Unfortunately," wrote Robinson, "we are saddled with a communist sympathizer in the White House. I don't know whether or not he's an actual card carrying commie, but he's definitely an America-hating, anti-capitalist Marxist leftist who thinks communism is the way to go. So now comes the problem. If you feel it's your duty to call Obama a traitor and use salty language in your proposed resolution, ie, suggest the commie be keelhauled, walked off the plank, run up the yardarm, tarred and feathered and run out of Dodge, etc, etc, etc, you may be facing a visit from your friendly Secret Service."

"Keep," wrote Robinson in closing, "your powder dry." Yeah, O.K., good thinking.


    Or something.


    Last month, Fox News celebrity Sean Hannity ran a poll on his web site. It asked readers what kind of revolution they'd prefer: military coup, armed rebellion or war for succession? "#3 seems most realistic," opined Hannity, "since it does present an opportunity for more homogeneous states to sort of capitalize on their homogeneity. However, it would likely lead to mass migrations of the minority partisans out of the rebel states. Of course, that may be fine with those states. Yet it seems that the ultimate paradox in any rebellion for freedom from within is that the ultimate goal is to impose the will of the rebels on everyone else through force. It seems the very foundation of representative democracy is ****tered if we accept that we exchange the power of ideas for the power of the sword upon each other. Nevertheless, I am still very interested in your own preferred form of revolt."


    That page has since been removed from Hannity's web site, surely due to some technical glitch, but before it was taken down, "armed rebellion" appeared to be the most popular choice of the three.


    Of course.


    Earlier this week, right-wing loudmouth Glenn Beck asserted during his radio show that President Obama's lifting of the ban on embryonic stem cell research would open the way for the genetic development of a new master race. "So here you have Barack Obama," said Beck, "going in and spending the money on embryonic stem cell research, and then some, fundamentally changing - remember, those great progressive doctors are the ones who brought us Eugenics. It was the progressive movement and it was science. Let's put science truly in her place. If evolution is right, why don't we just help out evolution? That was the idea. And sane people agreed with it! And it was from America. Progressive movement in America. Eugenics. In case you don't know what Eugenics led us to: the Final Solution. A master race! A perfect person. The stuff that we are facing is absolutely frightening. So I guess I have to put my name on yes, I hope Barack Obama fails. But I just want his policies to fail; I want America to wake up. "


    One assumes this forthcoming master race will enjoy minds of greater volume and depth than Mr. Beck's, because, well, people just can't get much dumber than this. It would be a profound waste of genetic material if we went out and created some master race that, like Messrs. Beck, Hannity and Robinson, was incapable of rational thought or speech. Just an idea.


    There is even more out there like this, from all over the place, with each seemingly trying to out-weird the other. So, yeah, it appears a fair portion of America's hard-right population, along with most if not all of their spokespeople and commentators, have been driven absolutely, positively bat-poop crazy by the election of and policies by Barack Obama.


    The trend has been sucking in more and more high-profile members of the conservative community. Newt Gingrich was forced to jump up and down on Rush Limbaugh for saying he wants Obama to fail. Limbaugh responded by calling Gingrich "a fly-by-night operator," who can't be depended on and who "will sell you out." Republican Sen. Bob Bennett of Utah came close to threatening Arizona with an infestation of crickets to shut John McCain up about earmarks in the budget. Conservative commentator David Brooks called House Minority Leader John Boehner "insane" after Boehner called for a complete freeze on federal spending as an answer to the ongoing economic crisis.


    Perhaps the most resounding cannonade fired at conservatives by a conservative was David Frum's Newsweek article lamenting the sad state of the party, and the ongoing catastrophe represented by the ascendancy of Limbaugh. "Even before the November 2008 defeat," wrote Frum, "even before the financial crisis and the congressional elections of November 2006 - it was already apparent that the Republican Party and the conservative movement were in deep trouble. And not just because of Iraq, either (although Iraq obviously did not help)."


    "Every day," continued Frum, "Rush Limbaugh reassures millions of core Republican voters that no change is needed: if people don't appreciate what we are saying, then say it louder. Isn't that what happened in 1994? Certainly this is a good approach for Rush himself. He claims 20 million listeners per week, and that suffices to make him a very wealthy man. And if another 100 million people cannot stand him, what does he care? What can they do to him other than ... not listen? It's not as if they can vote against him. But they can vote against Republican candidates for Congress. They can vote against Republican nominees for president. And if we allow ourselves to be overidentified with somebody who earns his fortune by giving offense, they will vote against us."


    Unfortunately for Mr. Frum and any conservatives who share his concerns, it does not appear any of the hard-right noisemakers have any intention of moderating either their tone or their tantrums. Maybe it will be another couple of months before the swelling from that electoral bruising goes down enough for these people to calm themselves, but at this point, it ain't happening.


    The hardest part for the GOP? Neither Obama nor any other Democrat have been required to say a word about any of this. The right-wing shouters do their shouting, get shouted at by other right-wing shouters, and a perfect circle of Republican self-destruction is formed.


    Stay tuned ... and, yeah, keep your powder dry.


    Or something.


Political wind have shifted in an ugly direction.
One does not have to look any further than this forum to know PRECISELY what he was talking about....racism and bigotry has reared its ugly head once again. When that happens, the damage transcends race and ethnicity. This is why you see so many of us stepping up every single time this kind of trash is posted to call it down and expose it for exactly what it is.

Middle Eastern Moslem ethic minorities DO need the protection of our leaders and of our laws when this shameful, dangerous and destrucive behavior emerges. Their citizenship DOES matter and the protection they need is against the very same GARBAGE your are posting here that, whether you realize it or not, incites fanatic whack jobs to violence.

Nothing to be sorry for when the truths comes to the light of day. Get a grip on yourself and do some soul searching, for a change.
Why on earth
would I want to complain about people with alligator mouths and hummingbird arses.  That's a personal problem.
What on earth
does being good-looking have to do with anything??

No one is talking about McCain's or Obama's relative handsomeness.

Is this the basis on which you're voting?? Then the country is doomed.
Why on earth would a gay
couple want to get married in a church when homosexuality is strictly forbidden in the Bible? That doesn't make any sense.

Hopefully the courts will overturn this in the states that have made it legal.
What on earth are you talking about?
Did I miss an earlier post that this is replying to or do you think that these are the only things that one could be bothered about concerning Obama?
The earth has been "replenished" far too many
and we'll all be standing shoulder-to-shoulder across every continent, with barely enough room to turn around. So what exactly is so 'intelligent' about populating our species out of existence?

Who knows - maybe God realizes we humans were a BIG MISTAKE. We're fouling the beautiful, bountiful earth that according to you, he made specifically for us. Leveling mountains and forests, polluting the streams & the oceans, causing the extinction of hundreds of species of animals (that supposedly HE created, right?) And for what? Because your brand of 'religion' says it's a sin to abort, (some even say contraception at ALL is a 'sin'), and that it's our God-given duty to replicate ourselves over and over again ad infinitum.

So, maybe he's trying to save our species by slowing down the multiplication factor a little bit. Ya never know. But one thing I DO know: Look at other species that outgrow their habitat and their food supply. That's where we're all headed.


fire with fire
Tired of dirty fighting?  It is the republican party who was the dirty fighters, not the democrats.  and they continue to be dirty fighters and will win again and again if we dont stand up to them.  Fight fire with fire.  What is good for the goose is good for the gander.  In the political spectrum that is America, you dont get anywhere for being the up and up person, the good guy, you win with dirty tricks.  If you dont realize that, you need to step back when it comes to politics..I bemoan the situation, for sure, but I will fight fire with fire and the democrats will win once again..and,  clue to you, check on Bushs right hand man, Rove, look at his extremely dirty politics and then ask yourself can we ever win against something like that by being nice?  I dont think so and the country depends on the liberals getting the country back on track.  I will do everything it takes, of course, everything that is legal.  I dont break the law like Rove and libby are now being shown that they did.
Please fire them all. sm
People are losing their jobs, homes, and on the streets - and a mouse gets 35 million.
How on earth could I stop you from posting....
have right at it. Don't you have anything better to do than take potshots at me? You guys are exactly why I will never vote Democrat again. You will not even allow a dissenting opinion without potshots and belittling. I thought liberals were all about freedom of speech and protection from being silenced in any way...you don't believe it at all...unless someone agrees with you. And for some reason, Obama supporters seem to be more rabid about it than most. Yet another rason not to vote for him...like I needed another one.
What on God's green earth makes

you call her a Bimbo.  This isn't some anorexic model.  This is a woman who once participated in a beauty pageant.  I just do not see how that disqualifies her as capable for this job.  She has been married for, I think, 20 years....which in this day in age is GREAT!!!  She has 5 kids.  She has an 80% approval rating as governor.  If you truly refuse to even look into her and what she stands for just because she is an attractive women.....well....I'm sorry but that just leads me thing these ramblings are coming from an envious unattractive person.  If you don't like Palin....fine.  But give us a better reason than because she was in a beauty pageant and she is pretty.  That is absolutely the most ignorant reason to not vote for someone.  That would be like someone not voting for Obama just because he is black.....just plain stupid.  That is superficial thinking.  Talk about judging a book by its cover.  Oh no...Palin is pretty....can't vote for her..she must be a bimbo.  DUMB DUMB DUMB!


lol....you act like Alaska is at the ends of the earth....
and they are "poor Alaskans." I think they have all incomes levels. Hey...a few thousand dollars is a lot of money to ME. lol.

Anyway...the amount of land drilled on in Alaska is extremely small in contrast to the size of the state. Proposed drilling in ANWR encompasses about 2000 acres at the most far north part of Alaska. ANWR in total is 19 MILLION acres.
No, he said the Earth would never be destroyed by FLOOD again. nm
x
Where on earth do you people get those crazy
getting any 'free money'. The super-rich will have to pay more of their fair share. For lots of others, it'll stay the same. For those of us who are hanging on by our toenails and making less & less money (umm.... medical transcriptionists, perhaps?), we'll get a bit of a break at tax time. But handing out free money? You gotta be kidding.
What on earth does the Taliban in Pakistan....
getting stronger have to do with the war in Iraq? That has to do with the war in Afghanistan, which, by the way, Obama never said he would end, in fact, he wants to escalate, which he has. The war in Iraq was the one he vowed to put an end to...you don't remember the speech? "We do not belong there, we never belonged there, and when I am elected I will begin immediate withdrawal." Yeah..uh huh. Then he moved it out to 16 months. And he has moved it out again to 24 months. Your golden idol has clay feet, my friend. You are so blinded by the "light" you just can't see it, and I cannot decide if that is plain old denial or if you really are that naive. :-)
Cease fire.
No canned text for me. The tone of our posts are set by these my-way-of-the-highway / scorched earth approaches to opposite views. I have very exhilarating exchanges when the 2 parties are respectful, informed, flexible, open-minded, focused and on task, more interested in finding common ground than sowing the seeds of division, looking for solutions as opposed to validation and understanding that no political problems will ever be solved without bipartisan participation, mediation and compromise.

Plagiarizing and paraphrasing an opponent’s text and ideas and trying to throw them back at them does not an effective argument make. Furthermore, it is childish…like those playground disputes between children…“you did, no you did, no you did”…etc. It is not your ideas that I find so distasteful, it is your presentation. Not to be cliché, but you attract more bees with sugar than vinegar. I am not intolerant of Hannity…watch him frequently. Cannot have an effective debate without becoming familiar with the “cons” side of the argument.

On the bigot thing. Remember me? I’m the one who is hawking inclusion, supportive of minority interests, and has the audacity to suggest that Americans are not the only ones who just might deserve some equality, dignity, respect and basic human rights…even if they are illegal. I suppose it is a positive sign that you at least take offense. There’s hope for you yet.

On racial purity. You are really big on maintaining American cultural integrity and identity. But when it comes to extending the same consideration to our immigrants you go ballistic…clear off the map, at times. They can walk and chew gum at the same time…it is possible to preserve ones’ native culture AND be a good American. These are not two mutually exclusive concepts. If our democratic principles are all they are cracked up to be, it would not be so painful to see them behaving like Americans.

Going to go out on a limb here and to use and example. Mexican-Americans gathered together (right to assemble) waving their flag in protest (freedom of speech) of harsh immigration laws or working conditions in the maquilidoras are trying to bring these issues to the doorstep of the government who created those conditions (right to redress grievances). What could be more American than that? You cannot look at that crowd and distinguish between which among them are legal and which are not…after all, those are issues of ALL Mexican natives. Should we deny all of them these rights, implying that such rights are reserved for the REAL Americans? Being American is not simply a matter of a piece of paper, some arbitrary degree of language proficiency, some certain level of income or education. They should not be required to melt into the pot and disappear, renounce their birthrights and turn their backs on their own people just to qualify. Can’t have it both ways. If you want them to be Americans, then you have to LET them be Americans.

Ask yourself this question. If you saw 50,000 illegal Irish immigrants doing the same thing in NYC, would your reaction be the same? The bottom line is this: Our new wave of immigrants does not look like the ones from the past. You seemed to enjoy the DAR bridge party swapping stories of how they all came from different countries and cross bred with one another …even had a occasional Indian in the wood pile…and produced this great nation of mutts. But the breed was selectively white. If it was okay then, it should be okay now. The problem you are grappling with is that the results would produce all these mongrel shades of God-knows what. If this make you uncomfortable in the least little bit…if you are now feeling driven to slap me up side the head…that’s the voice of bigotry.

On elitism. Your posts are full of strict, literal reads and “tudes” as you call them. Sue me if I took a page from your book. At least you sort of tried to address the “academics,” still not calling it by name. If you could stop slaying the messenger long enough to hear the message, you would understand that there is nothing condescending about wanting to engage in informed debate that orients itself around reaching mutual respect and understanding. It has absolutely nothing to do with being angry or feeling superior. Think what you like, but I am neither of those. I simply enjoy using my language and have an affinity for broad vocabulary. It’s just who I am. Blame it on the docs. They certainly sent me to the dictionary too many times to count and I lingered there for a while, that’s all there is to it. This personal trait should not in any way exempt me from debate, nor should I be subjected to ridicule, name calling or unfounded accusations because of it.

There is something you and I have in common. We are 2 American gals coming from opposite ends of the political spectrum, locked into the extreme divisions that plague our fellow citizens from shore to shore. If we cannot find our way past this kind of bickering in which we both find ourselves ensconced, we all are in big trouble.
Believe it or not, Sam, I actually enjoy our posts. Okay, go ahead if you like. Send me to the therapist again. Call me masochist, bipolar, schizo, whatever. I just think we could do better than this.

Speaking of therapy, I have a life-long friend, an endearing street thug / bad boy from younger days, who grew up and became a therapist. He works with drug addicts, adult children of alcoholics (being one himself) and dysfunctional families. He said something to me that made a lot of sense. One of the first challenging pieces of advice he throws out to a new patient is to “try to keep things in the third person,” in an effort to “dial back” nonproductive confrontations with family members. I thought he was crazy at first, but I started trying this with my husband and to my surprise, it really did seem to help us to better understand one another, even after 18 years. That is what I will be trying to do next time you and I visit the water cooler. If you want to chill on the immigrant dialog for a while, that works for me.

Thanks for the good luck wishes on the job search. Hope I can find a decent company that is not just another maquilidora masquerading as an MTSO!

Where there is smoke there is fire!!
xx
Yes, America is so horrible that nearly everyone from every country on earth sm
wants to live here.  What does that tell you? 
Typo - meant god's good earth.
x
Well sh1t fire...ain't that the truth!
In America, anyone can be President. That's one of the risks we take.
Fire-and-brimstone campaign
You can go to your fire-and brimstone rallies, wallow in your misery, and try to think of more ways to smear the finest candidate this Country has seen in decades.

I will go to the joyful rallies, full of hope for the future of this great Country.
No smoke, no fire, only mirrors. LOL!
.
Okay. Where is the petition to fire that CNN reporter
nm
McCain knew about Bristol before he picked her so what on Earth does that say...sm
about his judgment?!?! Palin has her hands full at home...I understand why he chose a woman but why this one I will never understand?!?!
If your idea of earth is fear, hate, and misery...no thanks!
The people who are creeped out by Obama and the people who support him are probably scared of their own shadows and prefer to wallow in misery!
They will think whatever they need to think to stoke the fire that feeds their hatred. nm

Boy, your cease fire didn't last long....LOL
Just in case you are interested, and I doubt you are, I wrote this BEFORE you wrote your cease fire, not AFTER. Which makes your cease fire ring all the more hollow, especially in the face of this..."Okay you want to keep the gloves off..." LOL. And if this dialing it back a notch...yes, frankly, I would suggest you go back and talk to that family friend because you haven't got the third person thing down yet. Every post flies in the face of what you try to say. You ARE angry. You DO need to feel superior. You want what you want, I want what I want. I make specific examples of specific Americans I have personal knowledge of who immigrated from Mexico and that is their experience, and the experience of many others. But you could care less. If it doesn't illustrate your point, you don't care about it. You don't care that it costs your fellow citizens millions every year to support illegal immigrants...money that could be going to the needs of citizens of this country. And where do you get that illegals don't stay anyway? Got any of those 4-letter words to support that?

Yes, my feelings extend to ANY nationality illegal immigrant. Why on earth do you think I hate Mexicans? I don't hate ANYONE. I just want them to come here legally like other immigrants have, get a green card, go through the process, become citizens if that is what they choose to do, or go back home when their visas expire. Draw and quarter me for that if you like. I couldn't, at this point, care LESS.

Again you completely missed the fact that I grew up and went to school with Mexican immigrant children and knew their families and keep in touch today. I have no problem with Mexicans. It is a fact that the biggest problem we have with immigration is from Mexico...welll duhhh...we share a border with them. Much easier for them to immigrate illegally, much easier because of the porous border for folks to get in that we don't really want to get in. But of course, you would

As to it takes a long time to become a citizen, yada yada yada...well, good things come to those who wait. It has always taken a long time to become a citizen. Since there are millions here who are citizens, obviously they thought it was worth the wait. Excuses, excuses, excuses. It is the LAW. Do you pick and choose what laws you want upholded and those you don't?

You say NONE of them want to change who we are or what we are. Did I miss the part where you were named national spokesperson for illegal immigrants? You don't even realize you said the same thing I said. Yes, they come here for a better life. That's fine. If I immigrated to Canada for a better life, I would not carry the American flag down their streets in protest, out of respect if nothing else, but I suppose that is something that does not matter to you either...it certainly is not present in your rants. If I immigrated to Canada to a part where they spoke predominantly French, I would learn French. I would be embracing of their culture. Because I chose to make that my country and my home. I would not have to be asked to do so. But obviously I am the exception and not the rule.

Again with the languages. I don't care how many languages are spoken here. My sole point is that for preservation and protection of the United States of America we should be united...and you don't see that either. I belive what I believe, you believe what you believe. And never the twain shall meet, it would appear. Does not make me wrong, does not make you wrong. I will hold my hopes for the America I long for and you hold the hopes for the America you long for. The years to come will tell the tale. And if all this comes back to bite you years down the road...and we are too old to care...that little voice in the back of your head that said "I told you so..." That will be me.

The Civil War...geez. It was all ABOUT preserving unity. If it had not been fought to preserve the union we would be two countries today fighting back and forth across the border like Iran and Iraq for example. Slavery was only part of the issue of the civil war. But a brilliant man (and Republican I might add) Abraham Lincoln saw the folly in splitting the union, and another fine man, Robert E. Lee, saw the same folly...but chose to be a Virginian before an American, though it broke his heart to do so (to use his own words), and we see where that led. After the civil war and the slaves were freed, we came back together as a country, stronger than before, and never since have Americans chosen to be anything but Americans first. So far. That is what I would like to preserve. That is all I am talking about. Unity. Read up on the civil war. Read up on Abraham Lincoln and Robert E. Lee. Both great men with great vision. The Civil War was about unity.

As to now who's arrogant? I am about the most UN-arrogant person you would ever meet. I wouldn't know how to be verbally condescending and you have it down to a fine art. For someone who is not angry and not needing to feel superior, your posts say the opposite.

All this aside, keep safe during the bad weather coming up. I know hurricanes don't go inland very far too often, praying that it won't get to you. Hoping tornados spawned won't get to either. Keep your head down and live to verbally slice and dice me another day. :)
If she had the proper and legal authority to fire him --
then why didn't she just do it instead of them telling the other guy to do it - then there would not be a problem.

Also, this inquiry was started before she was running for the VP slot - so it was not something they cooked up to get her after she got picked by McCain.
Ever heard of jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire? (nm)
x
Not bickering. Holding feet to fire. Like GP...
and I agreed to. Have a good night!
The fire safety argument is a lot of hooey.

Is it more of a fire hazard just because more than 15 people meet on a regular basis than if someone has a single  party for 30 people? 


As long as you and the other wiccans are clothed and no open-burning laws are being broken (in a residential area, that would  be a fire hazard) I would have no particular problem with your rituals.  Depending on the time of day/night and loudness of chanting, it might constitute a disturbance of the peace, same as a loud barbecue party in the neighborhood.  But with the basic concept of your meeting, no big deal.


Where on earth in this post do you get I hate blacks, Dems, or the poor?
I was quoting the mayor of New Orleans, Ray Nagin..who is black, and a Democrat, though not poor. Did I say I didn't like mayor Nagin? I am just saying he is acting a whole lot differently than he did during Katrina. And from that you get that I hate blacks, dems, and the poor? The dem talking points don't really fit this post...??? Now I am confused.

I don't hate Dems. I just don't agree with them. And I don't understand how they can say they are the party of the people and want to fight so hard for freedom of choice and individual rights, and then turn on one lone poster like a pack of snarling dogs for disagreeing with them. Don't you think what the party is supposed to stand for and the way theones on this board are acting is even SLIGHTLY contradictory?? lol
Ashes are all that's left of the shrub's scorched earth policies.
only after a platform transplant and some really new blood to resolve heir leadership crisis.
Why on earth? Small person, tiny brain, no power,
x
Tina Fey said if McCain wins she is leaving the earth. Glad she won't have to. nm
nm
The House just passed the bill??? No wonder the earth was shaking, that was the new crator...sm
the country is falling into! 
Newly Elected Muslim Lawmaker Under Fire...sm
My take: If you make a person who does not hold the Bible sacred swear to uphold his office on it, then does that swearing in really mean anything. They don't follow the teachings of the Bible, so why would it be relevant for them to swear on the Bible? (article below)


Newly Elected Muslim Lawmaker Under Fire
Decision to Take Oath on Koran Sparks Controversy
..
By Andrea Stone, USA TODAY

WASHINGTON (Dec. 1) -- The first Muslim elected to Congress hasn't been sworn into office yet, but his act of allegiance has already been criticized by a conservative commentator. In a column posted Tuesday on the conservative website Townhall.com, Dennis Prager blasted Minnesota Democrat Keith Ellison's decision to take the oath of office Jan. 4 with his hand on a Quran, the Muslim holy book.

He should not be allowed to do so, Prager wrote, not because of any American hostility to the Koran, but because the act undermines American culture.

He said Ellison, a convert from Catholicism, should swear on a Christian Bible -- which America holds as its holiest book. … If you are incapable of taking an oath on that book, don't serve in Congress.

The post generated nearly 800 comments on Townhall.com and sparked a tempest in the conservative blogosphere. Many who posted comments called the United States a Christian country and said Muslims are beginning to gain too much influence. Others wrote about the separation of church and state and said the Constitution protects all religions.

Dave Colling, Ellison's spokesman, said he was unavailable for comment. Earlier, Ellison told the online Minnesota Monitor, The Constitution guarantees for everyone to take the oath of office on whichever book they prefer. And that's what the freedom of religion is all about.

Colling said Ellison's office has received hundreds of very bigoted and racist e-mails and phone calls since Prager's column appeared. The vast majority said, 'You should resign from office if you're not willing to use the book our country was founded on,' Colling said

Requiring somebody to take an oath of office on a religious text that's not his violates the Constitution, said Kevin Hasson, president of The Becket Fund for Religious Liberty.

Members of the House of Representatives traditionally raise their right hands and are sworn in together on the floor of the chamber. The ritual sometimes seen as the swearing-in is actually a ceremonial photo op with the speaker of the House that usually involves a Bible.

They can bring in whatever they want, says Fred Beuttler, deputy historian of the House.

Prager, who is Jewish, wrote that no Mormon elected official has demanded to put his hand on the Book of Mormon. But Republican Sen. Gordon Smith of Oregon, carried a volume of Mormon scriptures that included the Bible and the Book of Mormon at his swearing-in ceremony in 1997.

Prager, who hosts a radio talk show, could not be reached for comment.

12-01-06 11:28 EST

Copyright 2006 USA TODAY, a division of Gannett Co. Inc. All Rights Reserved.

MTPockets posted about SP loving to fire people.
MTPockets could've just kept her post to the issue, but she had to throw in the barb about firing, so the next poster has every right to address it. Or is what she is referencing over your head?
I couldn't get in...crowd already exceeded the fire code.
So, after parking two blocks away and trudging to the party, the fire officials kept us out because the fire code only allows 300, of which there were more than that inside. Then the cops told us we couldn't congregate outside either due to traffic and not having a separate (outdoor) permit.

Not exactly what I'd hoped for since it was a wasted trip for me, but still wonderful.
U.S., France join in cease-fire call in Lebanon war..sm
So we are back bumping elbows with France. If only we would have taken their advice on Iraq too.
Dems leak Palin's SSN, Fred on Fire, Newt

 A few tidbits from Rush today.  Compare Nancy Pelosi to Newt--not even a contest!



Mr. Newt Rips NBC Reporter
Gingrich fights back


  Fred Thompson's speech at RNC  video)










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