Why subject the rape victim to a surgical abortion. Birth is safer. nm
Posted By: mtstudent on 2008-08-22
In Reply to: Maybe the kind that has 3 kids - sm
nm
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My belief? "late-term abortion" or partial-birth abortion" = infanticide, it is sickening
So in these cases I do think, as in most things, there is no ABSOLUTE, but a judicious guideline for this should be investigated and established by the medical community, as far as survival/outcome, but then we must be willing to prosecute mothers and doctors who go outside the guidelines...with established jail terms....and more money to house these "criminals" for years. Why not let God by the ultimate judge, He has the wisdom and the power, and eternity without God is worse than anything we as humans can mandate, don't you think?
Who in the world would want to give birth to a child a child conceived during rape?????..nm
Again:L How many children do you have?
That you can say this about partial birth abortion sm
says to me that you are a proponent of relative morality or that you have no idea what partial birth abortion entails. Once a society starts with the whatever seems right to you mentality in regards to life, then we are doomed. Pardon me if I say that I am so glad I am not you.
The procedure of partial birth abortion you describe is...sm
somewhat true, as well as gruesome. However, It is never done as an elective procedure, rather as an emergency procedure in order to save the life of the mother when it is a breech delivery and the cervix clamps down before the head delivers, or when the fetus has died in utero. The few times I saw it done during my career, everyone in the room, sometimes even the doctor was crying. To say that someone choses this to get rid of a baby is simply just not true.
Abortion shouldn't even be an issue. With all the forms of birth control
available, many at low or no cost, not to mention abstinence, abortion should not even be an issue. Too many people use it as a form of birth control and it isn't. I know there are some circumstances that warrant an abortion, but those are rare. Abortion may be legal, but it is immoral.
oh yea, continue the horrors for the victim
Yes, make sure the mother has the baby of the person that raped her. Make sure she goes on for nine months every minute of the day remembering the horrible incident. A lot of rape victims want to commit suicide. Luckily most of them are able to get through it with counseling but most of them don't have a belly to show. But hey, let that belly get bigger. Let her feel the child of the person that committed the horendous crime and violated her body. Make sure she remembers that. Geez - why not just frame the rapists photo so she can see his picture every day. Then the cherry on the cake will be the actual birth when she can once again see the rapist once her baby is born.
And then we have the wonderful knowledge that a lot of times these tendencies are hereditary (not always but a lot of times). Would you want to raise a rapists child knowing that when he/she becomes an adult the likelihood of them committing the same crime against someone else is there.
Oh yes that's a nice 20-year sentance for the victim.
I am SO TIRED of minorities playing victim!
So the black firemen totally SUCKED on the test. Maybe they didn't study as hard. Or they weren't as smart to begin with. Or they got loaded the night before the big test. Who cares why the stunk on the test. The fact was they STUNK! I'm sure a lot of WHITE firemen sucked at it, too.
But, instead of people saying, gee, those guys sucked on the test, they decided to pretend like there was something wrong with THE TEST instead of the guys who sucked at it. For no other reason than a bunch of hard-working WHITE GUYS did better than the majority of other people.
Yet another example of how this country bends over backwards to help minorities. They don't want EQUAL rights - they want RIGHT-OF-WAY - as in - clear the decks, let the 'special cases' go to the front of the line.
It's pure and utter BS. Typical of the lunatics on the left to defend such racism, while still maintaining their oh-so-precious "victim" status.
Here's how much safer
Do the math. If they hated us before, they sure as he** hate us MORE now. It's the foreign policy, stupid! Oh, and wasn't it BUSH who vowed to get Osama *dead or alive* but then later said he didn't *think about him much*??????
The graphs and links don't carry over in the copy and paste, but you can read those at his blog: http://bobgeiger.blogspot.com/
When George W. Bush made a prime-time television appearance Monday night to give a political speech -- under the guise of commemorating the five-year anniversary of September 11 -- he started right off by telling both a lie and the truth in one short sentence.
Today, we are safer, but we are not yet safe, said Bush, which means he was batting .500 with the truth in just one short statement. Not bad for him. It is undeniably true that we are not yet safe, but to imply that we are safer than we were before Bush turned the world against us is demonstrably false.
And Senator Dick Durbin (D-IL) sketched out the only numbers needed to confirm that Bush's war on terror is not only going very badly, but has gotten much, much worse on his watch.
Osama bin Laden is still on the loose. Al-Qaeda's membership, estimated at 20,000 on 9/11, is now estimated by our intelligence agencies at 50,000. Instead of shrinking and disappearing, they are growing geometrically, said Durbin on the Senate floor Tuesday, in describing how unsafe Republicans have made America.
Now there's a number we want to talk a lot about between now and the midterm elections, as Republicans beat their chests and say how safe they've kept Americans.
And Durbin's numbers check out. According to the 9/11 Commission Report, U.S. intelligence estimates put the total number of fighters who underwent instruction at bin Laden-supported camps in Afghanistan from 1996 through 9/11 at 10,000 to 20,000.
And recent research by the nonprofit, nonpartisan Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism, funded by the Department of Homeland Security and other government grants, says that the number of Al-Qaeda has jumped from the 20,000 reported by the 9/11 Commission a few years ago to 50,000 today.
This is an astonishing and disturbing number given that these are the people our own government said attacked us on September 11 -- and there's a hell of a lot more of them now.
Durbin also responded to charges by Rick Santorum (R-PA) that floor-statements made by Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) about Iraq were damaging and purely political in nature, by citing a report released Monday from the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) entitled Stabilizing Iraq: An Assessment of the Security Situation.
The GAO published a graph yesterday. The number of attacks rose from around 100 in May of 2003 to roughly 4,500 in July of 2006, said Durbin. Is it political or partisan to note the obvious, the GAO report to which Senator Reid made reference? That is not political partisanship; that is a reality, and we should face that reality because Iraq does continue to slip into civil war despite the billions that we have spent and the thousands of American lives which have been lost in that battle.
And here is the chart from the GAO report:
Since June 2003, the overall security conditions in Iraq have deteriorated and grown more complex, as evidenced by increasing numbers of attacks and Sunni/Shi'a sectarian strife, said the GAO report.
The report continues:
Enemy-initiated attacks against the coalition and its Iraqi partners have continued to increase through July 2006. Since 2003, enemy-initiated attacks have increased around major religious or political events, including Ramadan and elections...
Overall, attacks increased by 23 percent from 2004 to 2005. After declining in the fall of 2005, the number of attacks rose to the highest level ever in July 2006. Total attacks reported from January 2006 through July 2006 were about 57 percent higher than the total reported during the same period in 2005. These data show significant increases in attacks against coalition forces, who remain the primary targets, as well as civilians and Iraqi security forces.
The GAO ended the report with some damning questions for the Republican-controlled Congress -- questions that will undoubtedly be met with deafening silence until the scheduled October 6 adjournment, including:
* What are the key political, economic, and security conditions that must be achieved before U.S. forces can draw down and ultimately withdraw from Iraq? What target dates, if any, has the administration established for drawing down U.S. forces?
* Why have security conditions continued to deteriorate in Iraq even as the country has met political milestones, increased the number of trained and equipped security forces, and increasingly assumed the lead for security?
* If existing U.S. political, economic, and security measures are not reducing violence in Iraq, what additional measures, if any, will the administration propose for stemming the violence?
I guess, using Republican parlance, the General Accountability Office must hate America too.
Durbin, the second-ranking Democrat in the Senate, wrapped up by pointing out that, after a brief period of focus and success in Afghanistan following the start of that war in October 2001, things have been going downhill ever since and the Taliban is once again making a major bid to control the country.
There is another reality, said Durbin. The Taliban is gaining ground again in Afghanistan. They have set up shop in Pakistan where that Government has agreed to have a safe haven for some of these terrorist forces. That is unfortunate, and it is disastrous when you think of our long-term war on terrorism.
Bush seems to disagree with that assessment, saying on March 16, 2006, We have joined with the Afghan people to bring down the Taliban regime -- the protectors of the Al-Qaeda network -- and aided a new, democratic government to rise in its place.
I suppose there may be a way to squeeze some truth out of that statement, but the Administration will never acknowledge that, on their contrived, tough-on-terror watch, things have quietly been going to hell in a hand basket in Afghanistan, with Taliban attacks and suicide bombings way up in the last two years.
And, even if we accept the White House's ongoing claim that Iraq, and not Afghanistan, is the central front in the war on terror, the daily Iraqi death toll, our own dead and wounded and the recent revelation that U.S. forces may have lost control of Anbar province to the insurgents, tells just how badly Bush is doing there as well. Not to mention that as far back as mid-2005, even Bush's fellow Republicans were convinced that the Administration's rosy outlook was a load of BS.
Things aren't getting better; they're getting worse, said Nebraska's Republican Senator, Chuck Hagel, a Vietnam Veteran, in June 2005. The White House is completely disconnected from reality... The reality is that we are losing in Iraq.
Throw all of that together with threats from Iran and North Korea -- that the White House seems to have no ability or willingness to engage -- and an overextended, worn-out military, and you get quite a bowl of weak mush served up by the guys continuing to brag about how safe they'll keep us.
So, to recap, every Congressional candidate needs to say this over and over again in the next eight weeks:
* A 150 percent increase in the number of Al-Qaeda members in the world while we're focused on a civil war in Iraq
* Attacks on U.S. troops, Iraqi forces and civilians are skyrocketing, despite assurances from the White House that things are going just fine in Iraq
* Our neglected troops in Afghanistan are facing a 1,200 percent increase in Taliban attacks and a 600 percent jump in suicide bombings.
And then repeat again and again and again until November 7.
Oh, and one more thing: Where the hell is Osama bin Laden?
My job is probably safer than yours
At least I CAN spell.
Deregulation may be the topic, but in your dozen or so posts already this morning you've shown yourself to be unable to wrap your mind around the man's name.
The victim in a breakin is more likely to serve time than the theif
if they are shot in self defense in Alabama. Criminals have so many rights that if you shoot them in the back in your house you could be liable. If you shoot them and they fall out of your door, you could be liable. It's a joke.
As far as the child molesters, in a day and time of Jessica Lunsford and the Groene masacre, I don't see how a judge could let a child rapist walk with 60 days of jail time. He's dead wrong and the governer of Vermont needs to be the one to take the first stand to push for tougher laws so that judges can not skate on sentencing. It should be a mandatory 25 years for raping a child 12 and under, just like in Florida.
And with this comment you'll continue to play the victim and
say its always and only the conservatives that are mean.
I wonder which war is globally safer:
Iraq or Iran. We don't have enough troops to fight both, and if he brings home troops from Iraq, he will only send them to Iran next. A nuclear war could mean the extinction of mankind, which I'm beginning to think he and his most radical religious followers want, in order to fulfill the prophecy of the Rapture. Life is getting more frightening every day. I don't recognize my America any more. 
meant is against abortion...didn't mean supports abortion (NM)
I'm feeling safer and securer. I don't know about you...JOKE! --NM
X
Again, if we are so much safer, why did the 9/11 commission give him a failing grade?
You can't answer that either. Despite any connection between Iraq and 9/11, Bush and Co. (on fake intelligence) has stirred up an incredibly dangerous hornet's nest, yet you think everything is great. Why don't we just hand Iraq to Iran on a silver platter and just be done with it?
Bush and rape charges....
He was never charged. A very mentally ill woman filed a lawsuit. I outlined it above. The one against Reagan was never a charge either....was in that Kitty Kelley rag of a book. Never substantiated.
This makes me 'thinking': If that is so, then it maybe was not really a rape...nm
nm
Never heard of rape charges against Reagan or GW. sm
Also, Kaye Summersby, Ike's *supposed* mistress said that they were very close but never consummated anything.
A child concieved as a result of rape..........sm
is still half the mother's. Half her blood, half her genes, half her family history. The rapist can only have as much control over the victim after the fact as she allows. To murder a child just because it was conceived in such a manner reduces the mother to the level of the rapist.
Yeah, we got to get those rape rooms back and pronto...
You know, so the rapists (Hussein's henchmen) can practice their sexual preferrence freely....
Saddam's rape rooms are replaced by US prisons.....
In addition, how many people DIE of starvation every single day in Africa (mostly children)? We don't even have to invade a country to save them.
Below is a report on Abu Ghraib prison. Some Iraquis might not agree with how much more moral the Americans are:
"[B]etween October and December 2003, at the Abu Ghraib Confinement Facility (BCCF), numerous incidents of sadistic, blatant, and wanton criminal abuses were inflicted on several detainees. This systemic and illegal abuse of detainees was intentionally perpetrated by several members of the military police guard force. … The allegations of abuse were substantiated by detailed witness statements (ANNEX 26) and the discovery of extremely graphic photographic evidence. … I find that the intentional abuse of detainees by military police personnel included the following acts:
a. Punching, slapping, and kicking detainees; jumping on their naked feet;
b. Videotaping and photographing naked male and female detainees;
c. Forcibly arranging detainees in various sexually explicit positions for photographing;
d. Forcing detainees to remove their clothing and keeping them naked for several days at a time;
e. Forcing naked male detainees to wear women's underwear;
f. Forcing groups of male detainees to masturbate themselves while being photographed and videotaped;
g. Arranging naked male detainees in a pile and then jumping on them;
h. Positioning a naked detainee on a MRE Box, with a sandbag on his head, and attaching wires to his fingers, toes, and penis to simulate electric torture; …
j. Placing a dog chain or strap around a naked detainee's neck and having a female soldier pose for a picture;
k. A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee;
l. Using military working dogs (without muzzles) to intimidate and frighten detainees, and in at least one case biting and severely injuring a detainee …
These findings are amply supported by written confessions provided by several of the suspects, written statements provided by detainees, and witness statements. …
In addition, several detainees also described the following acts of abuse, which under the circumstances, I find credible based on the clarity of their statements and supporting evidence provided by other witnesses (ANNEX 26):
a. Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees;
b. Threatening detainees with a charged 9mm pistol;
c. Pouring cold water on naked detainees;
d. Beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair;
e. Threatening male detainees with rape; …
g. Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick."
—Executive summary of Taguba report, finalized Feb. 29, 2004, briefed to superiors on March 3, 2004, and submitted in final form on March 9, 2004
Oh I guess you would rather the rape rooms and torture rooms go back online
You extreme leftists don't follow a wild thought through to the end. If you did you'd never post some of the stuff you pass off as coherent thought. You would rather defend a murderous dictator, his sons, and his terrorist friends than even entertain the thought of supporting your president even if you think he's wrong. You are really quite transparent about where your loyalties lie. You want to see the U.S. crash and burn. You are sucidal in your leftist loyalties.
You are not a liberal you are a wacko who has gone off the deep end and in need of serious help.
Pro birth control....s/m
I'm definitely not pro abortion, but am pro choice in, what should be, the rare event of unexpected pregnancy, and in that case I think that the woman herself should be the one to decide whether to terminate the pregnancy or not, and if so, it should remain a safe, and legal option. It's an extremely emotional, and difficult decision for most women to have to make in that situation.. I did a quick look and see that the abortion rate in the US has declined from 1996 to 2002. I'm going to look for statistics from 2002 to the present when I have more time. I think the key in the main is stressing birth control measures, and also making those measures affordable to all women across all socio-economic groups.
Birth control is....
used to prevent pregnancy......not kill an innocent child AFTER it is conceived. BIG DIFFERENCE!!!! How do you people sleep at night?
As far as birth control....I have not seen anything about...
people wanting to remove birth control. Just because an individual elects not to use it does not mean they do not want anyone else to have access. With this permissive society liberals have created there is really no choice but to provide it.
Yes, there are natural causes for miscarriage. That is leaving it up to God. For us to put the life of an innocent child totally in the hands of someone else to choose whether it lives or dies, just as a personal choice, I believe is wrong. Just as those in these orphanges murdered children...it is murder. Killing an innocent for no reason other than "oops" is wrong.
What overturning Roe vs. wade would do is put it back in the hands of legislators who, by the constitution, are the only ones who can enact laws. The Supreme Court should not be enacting laws. They are to interpret...not legislate. I believe it should be overturned because it is unconstitutional. Then put it to a state-by-state vote. Some states would outlaw abortion except in cases of rape, incest, or life of mother. Some would outlaw it, period. Some would allow it in all forms. But at least it would be the will of the people.
Why do you think congress has never tried to pass an abortion law? Even when the democrats had control? Even before Roe vs. Wade? The truth is in the pudding.
birth certificates...
I just pulled out my daughter's birth certificate to look at it after reading a post somewhere below that said that Obama's birth certificate did not have a lot of information on it that birth certificates have (such as weights, name of particular hospital, etc.) and guess what - neither does my daughters. It has the raised seal and is signed by the American consulate of the United States and states that she was born a female in Nuernberg, Bavaria, Germany on (insert date) and that it was recorded on (insert date).
Nowhere does it say what hospital, what time, who the parents are, what the birthweight was, or any of that stuff. This is just an official copy that they gave me and they kept all that other stuff on file.
So, if my daughter is most definitely an American citizen and it is not on her birth certificate - why would Barack Obama's necessarily have to have it? Maybe it was not their custom in Hawaii at the time he WA born to put all that on the birth certificates. So just because it is not there does not make it a fake.
birth certificate
 As in the words of Archie Bunker from "All in the Family" to his TV wife Edith: "Stifle yourself...geeeez".
I assume you were there at his birth?
x
Birth certificatem(sm)
I agree with above. No way would Obama have been elected president if he wasn't a legitimate candidate. Believe me when government employees have to undergo background checks these days, I am sure he was subjected to the same plus more. To me this is just a loud-mouthed, disgruntled black man who probably in his mind thought he was going to be our first black president. Too bad Obama beat him to the punch. 
I think it is just like the birth certificate - it won't go away. nm
x
BTW, there are much better birth control
options than birth control pills. One of them IUDs, when those are in, there is nothing to 'forget' about them.
LOL...off the subject
Don't know if that's true about Bill or not, but the graphic showing the top 3 newsmakers with Mr. Floatie--join the movement gave me my much needed gut laugh for today.... 
What can I say...I like potty humor...please don't flame me 
On every subject
one can see good and bad. All people will never agree on anything.and there is good and bad in all people. I most certainly do not think blacks need to be compensated for their ancestors but count on it, that will happen no matter who is in the White House. I don't think slavery was right either but you know what? I wasn't around 150 years go to own any slaves so I'm not accepting any guilt trip. The repatrition (or whatever the word is), if that gets seriously considered in CONGRESS, you can bet my Senator and Representative will get an ear full from their old "friend" the gourd! LOL
I certainly don't mean to start a race war but blacks have the same opportunities in this country as whites. Have a look at one of the presidential candidates.
Do you even know what the subject is here?..(sm)
Yeah, I think I'm through with this board. The incoherent ramblings from pubs on here is getting boring.
He already has been subject to a different
standard. He had to run a campaign with little or no mistakes, which he did. He has always been held to a higher standard. If he had run a campaign like Clinton's or McCain's, he would have been a laughing stock. Being held to a higher standard will probably make him the best president we've seen in our lifetimes.
Not everyone has the same access to birth control. sm
I guess you didn't watch 20/20 this past Friday night? You can view it on their website. Go to http://abcnews.go.com/2020 and click on Watch: Babies in Memphis
I think everyone who is interested in this current thread would find it interesting, whatever your opinion on abortion is. It was called "Babyland" because that's what the locals call the cemetary where all the premature babies who die are buried if their mother can't afford to bury them.
It was about how the poverty-striken areas in Memphis, TN have much greater rates of premature births and deaths of babies than the more affleunt areas. Why? Lots of reasons, but probably the main one is lack of money, which means lack of prenatal care. No insurance and no easy access to a free or low-cost clinic. Lack of education. The girl they profiled was 18 and pregnant, and they showed another girl who had gotten pregnant at 12 yrs old, now a mother at 13. I mean, yeah, a 12 y/o shouldn't be having sex - she's still a child, but how in the world would she have access to birth control? She wouldn't.
It showed how the closest clinic is only open during the day (and only 1/2 day on Sat., to cut costs). No evening or weekend hours, so what are you supposed to do, take time off work, which you can't afford, to go get birth control (or prenatal care, etc.) which you also can't afford? I mean to you or me it may seem like a no-brainer - if nothing else go to the drugstore and get a box of condoms for $10.00, or the Today sponge thingie, but maybe they don't even have an extra $10.00 (or the time and $ to take 2 buses to get to the drugstore?).
All I'm saying is, the situation is different for everyone. I've personally never had an easy time with any method of birth control I've tried, and it's a bit of a wonder to me that I've never had an unplanned pregnancy because of that. Maybe because of that, I try to be less judgmental of others. Oops, more to say but I've got to go...
Birth control would have been nice.
.
I knew about birth control.
However, was I willing to go to my mom and ask her to put me on the pill. I knew my mother would have suspected my sexual activity and I didn't want her to know. Most teens also have the belief that "it won't happen to me." Now that I'm older, I see how some of the decisions I made back when I was 17 were poor ones, but at that time I thought they were great ideas. Do I blame my mom and dad for the bad decisions I made back then....no. Those were my decisions, my choices, and I had to deal with the consequences.
She supports birth control and ..
supports abstinence-only education in schools, but she has also said she does not support tax payer dollars to distribute birth control in schools. She is a member of Feminists for Life, which is an pro-life group.
Feminist for Life is a pro-life group that has had its positions distorted to show that they are against birth control. Palin critics (including many in the media) have cherry picked in order to smear Gov. Palin.
There is no proof. Birth certificate has been
The only proof you have is that you have no legitimate campaign strategy and your candidate's campaign is going down in flames over this relentless stupidity.
Obama birth certificate
I received an e-mail today that has been floating around. Any truth to Obama not releasing his birth certificate to prove he was actually born in this country? Any facts to back this up?
Maybe you still have your original birth certificate...sm
I sure didn't. When I went to get a passport I had to order a copy from the city where I was born. It was a photocopy. All birth certificate copies come with a seal for authenticity. There are no more "originals filed". Everything is computerized or on microfilm.
'vault' birth certificate
Oldtmer - thank you!!
It also mentioned a birth announcement
"Further, a birth announcement in the Aug. 13, 1961, Honolulu Advertiser listed Obama's birth there on Aug. 4."
Now, while that may not be a legal document, I highly doubt that way back on August 4, 1961, Obama's mother decided to state that he was born in Hawaii because some day he might grow up to be president.
There was no legal reason why she would have done that. He would have been considered a citizen, even if he had been born in Kenya. Maybe not natural born, but legal, and she would have had no reason to lie ... way, way, way back then.
Either way, what you're stating is that several INDEPENDENT organizations, including a legal court of America, are lying or covering up the truth FOR Obama.
It's a paranoid accusation to a very high degree, and I think, if nothing else, the campaigns this year have done nothing but heighten these delusions.
On both sides, even.
The Obama birth question may forever live in the annals of conspiracy theory - along with the U.S. moon landing "hoax" and the presence of reptilians who can shapeshift at will - but it would behoove our country to recognize it as an unproductive, divisive conspiracy theory that deserves much less attention than, say, a strong, compassionate, united nation.
"County" of birth, not "count..nm
Birth certificate authentification
Here's a link detailing how Obama's birth certificate has been investigated and why you need to drop this ridiculous charge that he's been perpetuating a lie for years.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/
whose insurance does not pay for birth control?
Mine sure as heck does. It is much cheaper to prevent births than pay for them. It makes fiscal sense.
birth certificate nonsense
Personally, I like the way factcheck.org handled this: They went and looked at the birth certificate. Then they went and looked at the birth announcement in the newspaper from 1961. Now, admittedly, it's possible that Obama's disciples FLEW BACK IN TIME to plant the birth announcement so that their Chosen One could ascend to power. I think we do have to consider that option carefully, because it leads us to ask--what if NEXT they GO BACK IN TIME TO CREATE AN OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT-ELECT FOR *EVERY* ELECTION EVER HELD IN THE US????
Obama birth certificate. What you can do.
For those that feel strongly that Obama is ineligible to be the president due to unanswered questions regarding his birth certificate, there is something that you can do about it.
The key here is that you need to be very proactive. Posting about Obama's birth certificate on message boards, in emails and such will not result in him ultimately being unable to serve as president due to this very important issue.
Many here have written extensively about this issue, and seem quite knowlegable regarding the actual facts surrounding his birth certificate, and the fact that he, in reality, is legally disqualifed from serving as president.
The many posters here who are deeply concerned about this issue, need to take thiings a step further than merely posting about this.
Here is what you need to do. Make an appointment to consult with an attorney and state your concerns to said attorney. For a retainer fee the attorney will accept the case on your behalf. Retainer fees are not that high, usually for a case such as this the retainer fee would run a couple of thousand dollars, plus whatever hourly fee the attorney charges. The more people that take this proactive approach, the higher the likelihood that the case will be heard and ultimately Obama would be removed from office due to this birth certificate issue.
In the event that the case is heard and dismissed, the next step is to file an appeal. The retainer fees for an appeal run higher than the initial retainer fee, however again it is not that expensive, with the ballpark figure of approximately $5,000.plus whatever hourly fee your attorney charges, and here again the more people that do this the higher the liklihood of Obama being removed from office due to this so very important issue.
On December 5, 2008, this issue will be addressed by the Supreme Court and likely there will be no furtherance on this. As many of you already know, a federal judge dismissed this very important case, and the Supreme Court is likely to follow suit in this coverup regarding Obama and his birth certificate.
I urge all who post about this so often and feel very strongly about this issue to take action, retain an attorney and follow through with the case to its conclusion. In the end, with your collective efforts and knowlege about the real issues regarding Obama and the birth certificate, you will have prevented, or caused the removal of, a person from serving in the highest office in the nation who, in fact, is not legally qualified to serve in that capacity. In doing this you will have performed the ultimate act of patriotism.
Sometimes in life you have to put your money where your mouth is, and this is one of those times.
Birth certificates in general
No I did not watch the youtube link you posted. That is definitely not a credible source for such an important issue as this. The CERTIFIED copy on Factcheck (and never mind discussing the credibility of Fact check) should be enough, it shows the fold marks and clearly the certification and signature.
Many, many years ago, I worked in a small hospital and in addition to my MT-ing, part of my job was to obtain birth certificate applications from new moms. I know that my birth certificate has the AGE of my parents at my birth, not their birth dates. It also lists the state in which they were born. I do not know what Hawaii requirements for birth certificates are but when it is certified by the STATE I would assume it to be legitimate. The hospital issued "birth certificate" is not and never has been to my knowledge, a legal document.
With the furious campaining done by Hillary and McCain, do you not even stop to think that if they had not been absolutely certain that his birth certificate was legitimate they wouldn't have blown the lid off months and months ago, especially when it became obvious he was likely to win??? Saying otherwise is ridiculous. They had no problem trashing him with Ayers, etc. up until Day Last did they? Anything to try to knock him out of the race. So are you saying they are part of the conspiracy to "cover up" Obama's birth certificate? Come on.....legitimate MTs are more intelligent than that. Since I don't know you, I have no idea if you are an MT or not.
Obama's birth certificate
This issue is irrelevant at this point. Even if it can be proven that he was not born in the US, he has lived here most of his life, had an American mother, has an American wife and American kids, and has served in the US Senate, not to mention the fact that he won the presidential election by a landslide. If you think this issue will prevent Barack Obama from taking office or disqualify him from serving at some point, dream on.
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