Wow! Thanks! According to your analysis there is no need to hold an election!
Posted By: dontcountyerchickens on 2008-10-24
In Reply to: Obama, your new president - shelly
X
Complete Discussion Below:  marks the location of current message within thread
- Obama, your new president - shelly
- Wow! Thanks! According to your analysis there is no need to hold an election! - dontcountyerchickens
The messages you are viewing
are archived/old.
To view latest messages and participate in discussions, select
the boards given in left menu
Other related messages found in our database
If you would hold your Dem Congress as responsible as you hold me...
THAT would be progress. lol.
analysis is exactly what you need
nm
Response to your analysis...sm
First, let's clear away everything you said about Obama's motives, because they are completely irrelevant. A man can act from the purest of motives and the best of intentions, and yet be entirely wrong.
So, to start us off let's just concede that Obama is a patriot, has the best interests of the country at heart and has no ulterior motives or personal interests driving his agenda.
Then, let's also set aside the desirability at least most of the agenda that Obama is promoting, because that, too, is irrelevant to our disagreement with him. At bottom, "we the people" of both/all parties want much the same things. No one would argue, or is arguing, that good schools for our kids, job security with a decent wage, equal opportunity for everyone, access to affordable healthcare, safe streets and national security.
We do have some problems with parts of Obama's agenda. The "science" of global warming, for instance, is simply abominably bad, and many scientists have said so. It has become a business, starting with AL Gore and spreading outward to the greedy hands that grasp for government money allocataed to "combat" this Don Quixote windmill. It is at least strongly possible that the earth is simply going through a cyclical climate change that has existed since the earth was formed - and some of us are saying that before we undertake the enormously expensive and economically damaging measures that the "sky-is-falling folks" are demanding, let's get the science right first and stop using models that start out by assuming the truth of global warming in order to prove global warming. The science has been hijacked by greed for government money.
We do have problems with Obama's policy of appeasement, and so far we have already had three very disturbing confirmations that appeasement is a very bad idea (Russia, Iran, and North Korea). It hasn't been pleasant watching Obama get slapped around in front of the world by Putin, the Ayatollah in Iran and Kim Jong Il.
But let's get closer to home. I said that people of all parties want much the same things. The questions that divide us are not what we should do, but how these things can best be achieved, at what cost, and how rapidly.
As to how these things can best be achieved, Obama believes that government should do them. He proposes to expand government more than Roosevelt did during the New Deal, and extend government's reach into every nook and cranny of American society. Under his budget, the government will account for 25% of the American economy - spending 1 in every 4 dollars. This alone should both stagger and worry everyone, because every government dollar must first be taken away from us (the government makes no money of its own), because the government is infamous for waste and corruption that will siphon dollars off as they do by the $billions with Medicare/Medicaid, and because government dollars always have very burdensome strings attached.
A good question to ask yourself is: Name 5 things that government does well (meaning, effectively and efficiently). You'll have a tough time filling out your list, if you're honest with yourself. Think about education, government-funded healthcare like Medicare/Medicaid, etc. and try to convince yourself that government is doing them well.
Time and again, it has been proven that private enterprise does a much better job of delivering desirable goods (an economic term for both "things" and "services") than government does. Rather than expanding an inept institution (government) to provide these goods, we should be encouraging the private sector to do so. The private sector is required to pay attention to costs, whereas the government is not (anyone can easily find millions of examples of that!).
Then, there is the second item of disagreement - "at what cost". This is related to the third item - "how rapidly". As desirable as many of the items on Obama's agenda might be, I have a lot of items on my personal agenda that are pretty desirable but that I simply cannot afford, or cannot afford RIGHT NOW. We, the people, are in exactly the same position. We have a deep recession that must be our first priority and perhaps, at this moment, our ONLY priority. In fact, so much money is being spent on this agenda item that it may well be the only thing we will be able to afford for quite some time to come, because the bill for all this stimulus spending has yet to come due. Make no mistake, though - we will pay, and pay, and pay, and pay.
When you look at the stimulus package, for instance, there is an incredible number of items that are "compartmentalized" - meaning that the states will get the dollars ONLY if they use them to do certain things that are on Obama's social agenda. And, a large number of these things will generate few if any jobs. The CBO's own numbers confirm that job creation is likely to be only half of what you're hearing from the White House, and unlike the White House, the CBO can explain where they get their numbers.
If we press forward with Obama's programs, the forward deficit (not one that Obama inherited from Bush!) will be nearly $10 trillion. This number is so staggering that governments around the world are beginning to wonder if Washington has lost its mind, and to worry that Washington will be the fountainhead of global superinflation.
It's time to set aside any questions of whether you like Obama or not...or whether you like his agenda or not. IT DOESN'T MATTER whether you like him or his agenda or not. The simple fact is, WE CANNOT AFFORD IT. We seem to think that the government doesn't need to recognize its limits and live within its means, just like families must do. The prospect of a $10 trillion deficit should strike more fear into your heart than terrorists or Russian missiles. It will literally enslave the American taxpayer, while at the same time increasing the price of everything you buy. Some goods will no longer be available at all to the "middle class" because they will become luxury items. Don't just whistle past the graveyard - think!
No society is ever perfect. A hundred years from now, we will still be looking around and seeing things that need to be done, or things that could be improved, or things that need to be eliminated, or things that need to be done differently. And, in that year of 2109, we will still have to say "There are some things on this list that we can afford, and some things we can't afford." We will still have to say "There are some things on this list that government should do, and some things that the private sector should do". It's the ability to make those distinctions that marks the difference between people who are driven by "party politics" and agendas, and those who realize that there are very real constraints that trump any agenda. They are the constraints of the limitations of government, the budget and the longer-term unintended consequences of rushing headlong to achieve any agenda, no matter how desirable it might be.
Very well put Tired MT. Your analysis is spot on. sm
I have been reading the posts for quite a while and I have to agree with you. If you don't agree with political viewpoints on this board, you are jumped on with both feet. I have been on the receiving end of it alos. I figure it this way, I must have really struck a nerve to get people so incensed that they go ballistic. I do have to say that Sam can more than hold her own and I love reading what she has to say. Kudos to Sam for having the courage of her convictions and kudos to you for putting a finger on the problem.
I totally agree with your analysis.
The release would do more harm than good.
The only purpose to release these pictures can be to persecute the former administration. We all and they all know that they are guilty.
Also, right, NOW is not the time to go after them.
I respect your analysis about how the people in the
Middle East are going to react to the exposure of the torture pictures. But it is a risky thing. The Muslim people's, the everyday people that is, reaction was also standing in awe to the 9/11 catastrophy and condemning it, as they knew it will backfire on them, the people.
But, I guess, their reaction seeing the torture picture, would not be favorable to us, in no way. The pictures will be met with horror, not respect by the Muslim people and the people all over the world. It is cruel torture, and who wants to see humans suffer in such way?
They will ask, 'What is the logic and reason to post those pictures?' They most probably will misunderstand it and maybe judge it as provocation. No good can come out of this. And I do not even dare to think of the reaction of the extremists. Why should a country expose its humiliating mistakes so openly to the world?
Let's not exaggerate trying to repair America's image to the world and the Arab world, I think O is on the right path.
this is not hateful, it is just an analysis and the truth...nm
I cannot believe the B* that is posted by the Rep on the Politics Board, especially the last 2 days, this has gone INSANE !
I agree with your analysis. It's gonna be ugly, especially if
Hezbullah wins in Lebanon.
EPA slants analysis to favor Bush's agenda
Report Accuses EPA of Slanting Analysis
Hill
Researchers Say Agency Fixed Pollution Study to Favor Bush's 'Clear
Skies'
By Juliet Eilperin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday,
December 3, 2005; A08
The Bush administration skewed its analysis of pending legislation on air
pollution to favor its bill over two competing proposals, according to a new
report by the Congressional Research Service.
The Environmental Protection Agency's Oct. 27 analysis of its plan -- along
with those of Sens. Thomas R. Carper (D-Del.) and James M. Jeffords (I-Vt.) --
exaggerated the costs and underestimated the benefits of imposing more stringent
pollution curbs, the independent, nonpartisan congressional researchers wrote in
a Nov. 23 report. The EPA issued its analysis -- which Carper had demanded this
spring, threatening to hold up the nomination of EPA Administrator Stephen L.
Johnson -- in part to revive its proposal, which is stalled in the Senate.
The administration's Clear Skies legislation aims to achieve a 70 percent cut
in emissions of sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxide after 2018, while Carper's and
Jeffords's bills demand steeper and faster cuts and would also reduce emissions
of carbon dioxide, which are linked to global warming. The Bush plan would also
cut emissions of neurotoxic mercury by 70 percent, while Jeffords's bill reduces
them by 90 percent.
Although it represents a step toward understanding the impacts of legislative
options, EPA's analysis is not as useful as one could hope, the Research Service
report said. The result is an analysis that some will argue is no longer
sufficiently up-to-date to contribute substantially to congressional debate.
The congressional report, which was not commissioned by a lawmaker as is
customary, said the EPA analysis boosted its own proposal by overestimating the
cost of controlling mercury and playing down the economic benefits of reducing
premature deaths and illnesses linked to air pollution.
EPA estimated the administration's plan would cost coal-fired power plants as
much as $6 billion annually, compared with up to $10 billion in Carper's measure
and as much as $51 billion for Jeffords's. It calculated that Bush's proposal
would produce $143 billion a year in health benefits while Carper's would
generate $161 billion and Jeffords would yield $211 billion. Carper's measure
would achieve most of its reductions by 2013, while Jeffords's bill would enact
even more ambitious pollution cuts by 2010.
EPA spokeswoman Eryn Witcher said the agency based its cost estimates on
mercury controls by gathering comments from boilermaker workers, power companies
and emission control companies, whereas the Research Service used a single study
to reach its conclusions on mercury.
Clear Skies delivers dramatic health benefits across the nation without
raising energy costs and does it with certainty and simplicity, instead of
regulation and litigation, Witcher said. Because of our commitment to see this
become a reality, EPA went above and beyond to provide the most comprehensive
legislative analysis of air ever prepared by the agency, so it does a real
disservice to this discussion to have a report that largely ignores and
misinterprets our analysis.
But aides to Carper and Jeffords said they felt vindicated by the
congressional study.
The CRS report backs up a lot of what we initially said about EPA's latest
analysis, that it overstated the costs of controlling mercury and understated
the overall health benefits of Senator Carper's legislation, said Carper
spokesman Bill Ghent. The report clearly states that there's no reason to settle
for the president's Clear Skies plan because the legislation doesn't clean the
air much better than current law.
© 2005 The Washington Post
Company
Do you agree with this analysis of Jewish abortion stance? sm
Jewish beliefs and practice not neatly match either the "pro-life" nor the "pro-choice" points of view. The general principles of modern-day Judaism are that:
The fetus has great value because it is potentially a human life. It gains "full human status at birth only." 2
Abortions are not permitted on the grounds of genetic imperfections of the fetus.
Abortions are permitted to save the mother's life or health.
With the exception of some Orthodox authorities, Judaism supports abortion access for women.
"...each case must be decided individually by a rabbi well-versed in Jewish law." 5
Historical Christianity has considered "ensoulment," the point at which the soul enters the body) as the time when abortions should normally be prohibited. Belief about the timing of this event has varied from the instant of fertilization of the ovum, to 90 days after conception, or later. There has been no consensus among historical Jewish sources about when ensoulment happens. It is regarded as "one of the 'secrets of God' that will be revealed only when the Messiah comes."
Wow, and you can ascertain all that from 4 weeks in office? Amazingly rapid political analysis!.....
nm
Yes, we can always hold
more people see through the BS. Bush & Co. certainly are out in full force *catapulting the propaganda* and swiftboating anyone who disagrees, so who knows? Hopefully fewer people will buy it this time.
I'm sure your grandchild is the cutest and smartest!
You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.
If you hold with J, that should be enough. nm
nm
We should not have to hold him up. He should hold
nm
Well hold onto your hat.....(sm)
because I know of 3 pub senators who are planning to say yea (despite threats from the GOP). LOL.
Whoa...hold on there.
This is/was a good board with some good folks. PERHAPS she just hadn't seen these posts.....maybe....hope that's the case.
Otherwise, I agree that it's probably time to boycott this board. I have long been aware of the definite bias of the powers that be. But I still hold out hope for fairness in the long run. And I was banned on the conservative board for calling someone stupid!!!! (which I shouldn't have, I admit).
Oh, just hold that thought.
This is great - can we hold em to it? sm
First Rummy, then we will work on the rest. I think they are starting to realize they are getting backed up to the wall.
Boxer quote: You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig. Love it.
who they hold responsible for what?
nm
hold on to your hats
The bottom is starting to drop out of this thing. I am positive the media (who are angry already about the phony "bias" attack by McCain) will NOT let SP's silence go unnoted.
ifin' they did I would hold them
up as shiny examples of Moral Magnificance, same as Palin's daughter.
I''ve got a tux on hold
and a vacation day scheduled . . . just in case.
Someone needs to hold them accountable.
Obviously their own party is not going to. Glad to pile on Bush and the Republicans for every wrong they think they did, but accept no responsibility or ask accountability of their own party who let us ALL down.
Oldtimer, I do not understand that. No way, no how.
Nah, we have to hold our mouth in a
different position in that case. Must have been something else.
Whoa and hold on!!!
First and foremost, please express my personal appreciation to your husband for his service to this country. By no means would I EVER ridicule a military person. They have served and DIED for the freedom we have and they continue to do so. I say the war in Iraq is ridiculous and that is my personal opinion. I think it was wrong from the getgo and I think it is WRONG to put our service men and woman in harm's way with many of them sacrificing their lives needlessly. There has never been peace in the middle east and there never will be (IMO) all the way back to biblical times.
Bush's "excuse" for the war was to capture or kill bin Laden wasn't it? So why has that not been done? Because, again in my opinion, the war is not against terrorism but about the wealthy oil barons.
AND, I pray for you and your husband. You too are making a great sacrifice and, again, your husband is serving his country and for that he deserves and gets from me the utmost respect whether or not I happen to agree with the politicians who sent him to war. May he be safe and soon return to you.
Whoh! Hold on there.
CLINTON put a lot of those people in government spots. I think he called it Affirmative Action.
I worked for a patent attorney back then and after Clinton got in, half the patent office were, (how can I say it without being branded a racist?) Indian, Pakistani, and a mix of other races. My attorney would be furious when they would return a patent for an error, and he would have to do a 15 page brief on why there was NO error.
Why are all the gas stations and motels now owned, or mostly owned, by other races? Where does the money come from?
There is a large VRAJ temple (sic) a few miles from my house. No one could afford to buy the property when it went up for sale because they wanted close to $1M for it. People from all over the world come there, yet a white person is not allowed to step 1 foot on their property or they will be arrested.
What's up with that?
I hold government as a whole
responsible and that includes all parties. They are all greedy liars who just want to keep their seat and will say and do anything to draw followers in to get elected. So this promise of change is not change at all. It is the same political game that has been played since the very beginning. They all suck. I say we storm Washington with our pitch forks and torches and get all new people in office. What say you? LOL!
I don't hold much with "studies" but
all I know is my parents, who lived through the Great Depression credit FDR for saving the country. I'll take the word of someone who has BTDT over any "study" any day.
I will hold to the tenants of one
one of the oldest, continuing faiths in the world. I don't see a quandry at all.
Don't hold your breath. I think the
next 4 years is going to be a sink or swim economy, and I don't think many people or companies can swim anymore. Too many are at the end of the rope and about to drown.
I hold government as a whole
responsible for this mess including the last administration as well as this one. I do not like what President Obama is doing. This stimulus package is a joke. It is full of earmarks and pork. I can smell the bacon being fried in D.C. all the way over here in Indiana.
I want to see jobs created. I want more focus on alternative fuels. I want to tap the resources we have now and create jobs. I'm tired of giving money to banks. I'm tired of giving money to people who were irresponsible while harding working people suffer and try to stay afloat because of their bad decisions as well as the bad decisions made by crooks in government.
I didn't totally agree with the bailout Bush pushed for either, but you know what....I believe Barry Obama voted yes to that. He was in the senate and therefore I hold the senate responsible for things too. Bush couldn't do everything himself and there were plenty of dems in congress during the last 4 years that could have stopped a bailout during Bush's term.
I'm tired of the blaming game. There are too many people involved to try and blame everyone and it isn't fair to blame just one person since so many were involved.
I'm generally a middle of the road kind of person and in saying that.....I just do not feel that this stimulus package will stimulate the economy and I don't believe it will create and sustain jobs either.
I also wish our current administration would take some time and make an effort to stop all of this offshoring as there are many Americans who would benefit from this as well.
Hold on. This has been going on for as long
as I can remember. DH had a friend who worked for GAO back in the 70s. He told us about it then. It's probably been going on earlier than that. So don't blame just one elected official.
You know, I'd really like to get a hold of the guys...sm
who sat and crunched the numbers and decided that it would be cheaper for their business to take American jobs and outsource them. Cheaper for who? If they would think this process out, and do the old school math instead of this fancy new math, they may have come up with a different answer.
Take for instance transcription:
Factor in hundreds to thousands of Americans losing their jobs to India, the newest craze in Transcriptionist outsourcing.
Factor in the loss of revenue from how much each of those transcriptionists can no longer spend and help keep the economy balanced, ESPECIALLY in such a recession now.
Factor in how little the government is going to issue out to these people who cannot find work so they can at least feed their family while they try to find something comparable to what they were doing. Factor in the few government grants that people can qualify for because they are now low income. Compare that to the millions they lost and are no longer contributing to the economy.
Factor in the cut backs because people have lost their jobs and can no longer afford health care, and now the hospitals can no longer afford the MTSOs and have to bring what work they do have back in-house.
Factor in now the MTSO that outsourced the work in the first place no longer has work available to outsource, thereby breeching contract, therefore having to pay huge fines, losing contracts left and right, and whoop, there goes another business under.
Oh who am I kidding, what do they care? They will just pay themselves a big bonus as they watch the company Titanic sink, and then AHDI and the lawyers will jump in and bail them out using the money that was skimmed from the employees who worked so hard for many years, just like the taxpayers!!??!! Man this country is messed up!
Hold on. Not all pubs, please.
I try to have decent conversations, but there are others that only want to get everyone fired up. Just keep having decent conversations. They'll go away sooner or later.
BTW, I'm a pub but usually always vote for "the best man". Of course, we all know there are any of those guys left in D.C. 
Just hold on here.....the woman was addicted....
addicts will do just about anything to get drugs. Murders are committed every day to get drugs. And it is not just the McCains who have pulled strings to avoid jail time. Although I need to research this before I talk much more about it.
Point being...this is not new in politics or any other walk of life. Are you saying she is somehow more responsible for her behavior while addicted than you would be or I would be, just because her husband is now running for President? And don't tell me if you had the means at your disposal to avoid jail and you were an addict that you would not use every one of them.
Are you holding her to the same standard you would hold yourself or a member of your family? If it were your mother or sister, and you had the means to help them avoid jail and get off the stuff, would you not do it?
I'm not ignoring Sally. She can hold her own,
meticlously discredit endless barrages of pub bash, misconceptions, misprentations and misinformation. I for one am preparing to bury the garbage under piles and piles of irrefutable fact by ensuring the focus stays on issues rather than personalities and that pub/NeoCon values are contrasted with O Vision in terms that will expose them for exactly what the pretend they are not...4 more years of same old poop without a change in sight. I suspect other O supporters know exactly what they are up against and what then need to be doing about it...and are doing it as we speak. For me, the quality of my life in the next 4 years depends ensuring Pub defeat in November and I am confident that other dems are similarly motived to do the same.
He was asked by the media to hold off on his...sm
press conference until they could get cameras to where he was and broadcast it live.
That is always how socialism takes hold....
promises, pretty speeches, and class warfare. How many posts have you seen here about "I am tired of the rich getting richer" and "we need someone to represent the middle class, not the rich" yada yada. It is already taking hold. And it NEVER works. All you end up with in socialism is all the money at the top (the government and cronies) and the rest of us at the bottom. The middle class DISAPPEARS. Look at venezuela...at Cuba...at the USSR before it broke up...and they will drag us all down the drain with them.
But mark my words...if it happens, won't be THEIR fault. Would be laughable if not so darned sad.
I wouldn't hold my breath. n/m
Why do pubs hold such anger toward
Your dark, dismal, gloomy world holds less than zero appeal. Times are changing...with or without you.
I wouldn't hold my breath.
.
Don't hold your breath waiting.
He already said that he can't do everything at once. "It may take a year, it may take 2 years, it may even take the first term to do it all, but it will be done".
I wouldn't hold your breath
He has no plans whatsoever to bring the troops home in 60-90 days. He is already saying they need to stay another 5 years. Not to mention all the other dangerous areas he plans to send them too once out of Iraq. Then once he gets the Civilian National Security up and running and the kids in college, etc trained they can be diverted too. Maybe he'll bring home the troops for a short LOA (leave of absence), but they will go right back.
Why do people think he needs to be president to break promises. He's already making decisions and he already has broken promises he made on his campaign trail (just to get the votes).
Broken promise #1. I will bring the troops home. - He's already said they will be there for at least the next five years. I read another article that said it won't happen until 2011, and that is from an agreement that Bush signed. So in 2011 even then Obama will not have brought them home, it will be because of Bush. If people had their minds and eyes open during the campaign they would have seen this as a clear trick to get the people to vote for him).
Broken promise 2. I will tax the rich. - He now is coming out and saying he will not tax the rich.
Broken promise 3. I will bring change to Washington. - And just how is he suppose to do that when his entire cabinet is being filled with old Clintonians. People are sick of the Bush's and Clinton's and he goes and drags back these #$%(* we were so happy to get rid of.
Broken promise 4. I will not have lobbyists in my administration. - Uh hellooooooo. There are at least 15 people in his cabinet who are lobbyists.
So, there are just 4 of his campaign promises he has broken. Has has picked his cabinet, and revealed his (no taxes for the rich) plan already and also the fact that he is not going to be bringing the troops home. Seeing as this is on camera and in writing you can say that he has broken his promises. Unless for some reason you think that on the day of his inaugeration he's going to tell all these people that he picked for his cabinet that it was only a joke and instead he's going to hire more capable people.
People are really questioning his ability to lead (and this is in other countries too), which clearly by his choices and decisions he has already made he is showing that he cannot. I just thank god Biden is in there.
Venezuela and Russia are going to hold
military manuevers near Venezuela.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,457106,00.html
We hold these truths to be self-evident
The weapons arsenals clearly tell the story of who the terrorists are. It's the occupation, stupid. There is no justifying it. The very idea that 21st century human beings would even THINK about trying to while the death toll approaches 700 vs 4, 50% of which are women and children with the portion of civilian men (fathers, sons, brothers, uncles, cousins and friends) and elders remaining undocumented, schools, markets, ambulance drivers and UN humanitarian workers being targeted, basic human services and infrastructure such as electricity, sewage disposal and roads destroyed in the middle of a press black-out and a land-and-sea blockade on all sides is positively SICKENING.
Hold on to your hats. I just heard that
the democrats are going to put on a medial blitz regarding the stimulus package. They supposedly are going to blame the republicans for not wanting to pass this package, stating they don't care about the American people. (Serously, I think the pubs care more than the dems-but that's just me.)
I kept hearing about "honey bees" in this package but couldn't find it. I was listening to CSpan today. The senators are debating the package. McCain stated we don't need to spend %150M on "honey bee insurance." What?
We don't need a water park, ATV trails, etc. These can be done later.
Also, he feels we should lower the income taxes immediately by 5%; i.e., if you pay 15%, you'd be paying 10%; if you pay 10%, you'd be paying 5%. It would only cost $275B to do this, but would get things moving again. I didn't see anything in the stimulus package about that either but, of course, I didn't finish reading it yet. Senator DeMint also wants the taxes lowered on individuals.
One senator from MD wants jobs brought back home.
They expect to vote on this package by Friday. Hopefully, they'll get all the crap taken out....which will probably take it back to 4 pages.
JTBB - are you ever going to hold him responsible
For things he is doing. If he's in there the next 50 years (god help us) are you still going to blame Bush. Obama promised things during his campaign. He has broken those promises. Now your saying it's not his fault? Lets blame the previous administration? For promises the O made and has broken? For going back on his word? It's the previous administrations fault???? He said he was not going to do certain things (re: Patriot Act) but now has changed his tune. Helloooooo. This is the O doing this. Has nothing to do with previous administration, but if your going to pull that little stunt, then you must blame the previous administration before that (B.C.) because GW inherited a lot of crap he had to deal with.
Hey, what kinda pansies hold their
tea party indoors?
whoa - hold on there - see message
I have been extremely busy these past couple weeks and hardly come here anymore, but I have read a lot of comments and take offense to this. I have seen plenty of intelligent conversations by both sides (and some no so intelligent - get it?). You seem to like to have divisions between one side and the other, and your comments will always be that the liberals are the "all knowing, intelligent ones" and then "them pubs". This country will never be united with thinking like that. Both sides have good and both sides have bad. But I'll bet a lot of people on this board are more in the middle and sick and tired of the elitist liberals and the uber-conservatives. Why can't people just have a good conversation without condescending messages like this?
You hold the corner market on derogatory
nm
Inmates got hold of the computers at the asylum again...nm
nm
|
