Yes, with an addition that I hope anyone reading this...
Posted By: Observer on 2007-10-23
In Reply to: Your comments were straightforward and clear. - Teddy
will look at the entire thread, and a little foray into the archives would not go amiss either. I think the totality of the posts should speak volumes.
Have a good day, Teddy.
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In addition....
They also showed a quote from Military Times that for the first time ever more soldiers oppose this war and Bush's policy than support it.
This certainly runs counter to what I read on the Conservative board but backs up what I have been hearing from the military folks that I know (they are no longer active duty).
In addition to above....
I don't know what plan B you think Clinton had for Somalia...but the fact that he turned tail and ran after they dragged the body of one of our soldiers behind a Jeep instead of acting decisively...if he had fought Al Qaeda in Somalia then...we might not be fighting them in Iraq now. Cutting and running was wrong then and it is wrong now. Wasn't going to bring this up, but it seems appropriate now:
Unintended Consequences: The Rise of Al-Qaeda.
Al-Qaeda is a transnational umbrella group that has evolved from a loose association of Islamic militants who had flocked to Afghanistan during the 1980s to join the jihad (holy war) against the Soviet occupation. 7 Following the Soviet withdrawal in 1989, many of these estimated 25,000 Arab Afghans returned home, where they fostered radical Islamic movements in many Muslim countries, including Somalia. According to U.S. intelligence reports, bin Laden sent Islamic extremists to Somalia in 1991-1992 to help the Somali Islamic radical group al-Ittihad al-Islamiya (Islamic Unity, or AIAI) to organize an armed militia, establish schools and clinics, and prepare to seize power.
One of the most grievous unintended consequences of the U.S. intervention in Somalia was that U.S. peacekeeping forces became a lightning rod for terrorist attacks from bin Laden's terrorists and their Somali allies. Al-Qaeda's first known terrorist attack against Americans was the December 1992 bombing of a hotel in Aden, Yemen, used by American soldiers en route to Somalia to participate in the relief operations. 8
Bin Laden, who lived in nearby Sudan from 1991-1996 under the protection of the radical Islamic regime in Khartoum, regarded the American humanitarian intervention in Somalia as a colonial occupation and a threat to Islam. This mirrored his hostile view of the deployment of U.S. troops to defend Saudi Arabia in 1990 after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. He deemed the U.S. intervention to be an intolerable occupation of his Saudi homeland and a crusade against Islam.
In 1993, bin Laden issued a fatwa (religious edict) calling for Somalis to attack U.S. forces and drive them out of the country. 9 He dispatched several lieutenants, including Mohammed Atef, who is believed to have helped plan the September 11 attacks, to help train Somalis in military and terrorist tactics.
According to U.S. officials, bin Laden spent $3 million to recruit and airlift elite veterans of the Afghan jihad to Somalia via third countries, such as Yemen and Ethiopia. 10 Several hundred foreign veterans of the Afghan jihad, expelled from Pakistan in 1993, also joined the Somali jihad after passing through Sudan. 11 Tariq Nasr Fadhli, a radical Islamic leader from Yemen who fought under bin Laden against the Soviets in Afghanistan, helped bring Yemeni mercenaries to fight in Somalia. 12
Bin Laden later claimed responsibility for the deaths of the 18 U.S. soldiers in Mogadishu. 13 In a 1997 interview with CNN, he gloated that al-Qaeda had trained and organized the Somali fighters who did the actual fighting. 14 Al-Qaeda members are suspected of teaching General Aideed's militia how to shoot down U.S. helicopters by altering the fuses of rocket-propelled grenades so that they exploded in mid-air. 15 This tactic, developed by the Afghan mujahideen (holy warriors) in their war against the Soviets, was the same one al-Qaeda forces used to bring down two U.S. helicopters near Gardez, Afghanistan, during Operation Anaconda in early March 2002.
Triumph Against U.S. in 1993 Stokes Bin Laden's Ambitions.
The ignominious collapse of the U.S. peacekeeping mission in Somalia after October 1993 undoubtedly led bin Laden to conclude that you go kill a few Americans and they go away, as one expert described it. 16 This also reinforced his contempt for American staying power and fueled his ambitions to use terrorism to drive American influence out of the Muslim world: If the deaths of 18 soldiers could cause the withdrawal of 25,000 U.S. troops from Somalia, bin Laden had reason to believe that killing more Americans could lead to a similar pullout from Saudi Arabia.
Al-Qaeda terrorists are suspected of involvement in a series of increasingly ambitious terrorist bombings that killed five U.S. military advisers in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, in 1995; 19 U.S. military personnel at the Khobar Towers housing complex in Saudi Arabia in 1996; and 224 people, including 12 Americans, in the simultaneous bombings of the U.S. embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya, in 1998. The embassy bombings took place on August 7, the anniversary of the first deployment of U.S. troops to Saudi Arabia in response to the August 2, 1990, Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. According to U.S. intelligence, al-Qaeda used Somalia as a regional base of operations, including preparations for the 1998 embassy bombings. 17 Some of the members of the same Kenya-based al-Qaeda cell that helped train Somalis to kill U.S. soldiers in 1993 went on to carry out the bombing of the U.S. embassy in Nairobi. 18
Bin Laden's victory in Somalia also helped radicalize Somali Islamists. Although Somalia's AIAI was formed in the late 1980s as a fundamentalist Islamic social-political movement, it evolved into a revolutionary Islamic force with (1) the return of a sprinkling of Somali veterans of the Afghan jihad, (2) bin Laden's radical influence, and (3) Sudanese support. It sought to build an Islamic state that would be governed by Sharia (Islamic law).
So, if you look at that honestly...Bush is just trying to clean up the mess Bill Clinton left. If he had acted decisively in Somalia (and my husband was in Somalia shortly after Blackhawk Down happened...I know whereof I speak)...perhaps this could have all been avoided. I believe it most assuredly could have. And it proves that if you cut and run Al Qaeda does not go away. They get stronger. The left got us where we are now...and are famous for cutting and running and leaving innocents dangling in the breeze, while all the time professing compassion for the poor and downtrodden. Perhaps you can understand my confusion now. The left gives Clinton a total pass and wants to blame Bush for ... again... trying to clean up the mess Bill left and trying to turn the tide. If Bill had acted differently in Somalia perhaps we could have avoided 9-11 as well. The facts seem to lean in that direction. ANything that Bush has done regarding Iraq pales in comparision to what Clinton did in cutting and running from Somalia in my opinion. I have known all this since Somalia...yet when that same Bill Clinton showed up in OKC after the Murrah building bombing, the first thing that came to my mind was that I was happy that he had come, that the President was there. I did not question why he did not go to the funerals of the 18 soldiers killed in Mogadishu or that he ran like a coward and emboldened the enemy. I understood why he came and took him at face value. I guess that is the difference in you and me.
LOL...In addition to that...(sm)
they need to stick a camera up to every one of them and let the explain to people all over the country why they were so willing to put so many people out of a job.
In addition to the relationships
I referred to in my other post, the fact that I lived in the region and worked with refugees both here and over there, my info comes from all over the place because I make a concerted effort to educate myself on these issues, especially the history of the region, its political parties and the constant interference it has had to withstand from the West for the past 100 years or so. The only thing you suppposedly "know" about who is supporting "these terrorists" is what you are told by a skewed one-sided press that has done nothing but promote and serve the government's agenda when it comes to Israel.
I gave you several logical reasons based on well-known facts that mitigate against the idea that Iran smuggles arms to Hamas. If you knew anything about the occupation and about the relationships of the parties, you would know how logistically impossible that notion is. If you are referring to Hamas instead of Iran (hard to tell by the way you phrased your post), then what you are trying to say is even more absurd and AGAIN is nothing more than a regurgitation of what the media is feeding you.
Hamas are citizens of Gaza themselves and they live in a place that is the 6th most densely populated area in the world. There are 10,792 Gazans per square mile with a total area of only 139 square miles. It is blockaded by land and sea by Israel. There is no exit from the place and there is no way Hamas can NOT live among its own fellow citizens, who by the way, elected them to office in a democratic process, hold them in high regard and recognize them as their representatives. They are hardly embedding or hiding themselves anywhere. They live there, for heaven's sake.
Now whose putting words in whose mouth? I know no such thing and agree with nothing you have said here. You also have no idea how I feel about my country or my fellow Americans. I will not hesitate to say that I think the US policy on Israel is ignorant, barbaric, self-serving and has really very little to do with support of Israel or her people. That makes it hypocritical as well, and I really do not like it one bit when my own government lies to me, which it constantly does about Israel. I also have fairly hostile feelings toward anyone who supports this terrorist apartheid state and turns a blind eye to the human abuses there and to the fact that the only terrorists breeding terrorism there are the Israelis and their benefactors.
As a real American, who is patriotic enough to care about what this country has become, and especially how it's better side has been so eroded by the Bush years, I get to say those things, think those things and still be considered your fellow citizen. Like the Palestinians, I am not going anywhere and your little love it or leave it mantra and your fellow choir members who chant it ad nauseum are nearing extinction, so I'll pass on any further time-consuming comment on that one.
Great idea, with just one addition:
Those who insist on not using the new board for its purpose and instead continue to do what they've been doing should receive some sort of sanction, maybe permanent banning, I don't know.
It seems another problem is that when THEY say something, it's not bashing, whereas ANYTHING we say is bashing as far as they're concerned. I truly believe that a few misguided souls on this board truly don't believe they are doing anything wrong. They are incapable of being objective, feel everything they say is fine, and if someone gets fed up and gives them a taste of their own medicine, they claim they're being attacked.
You could be the Virgin Mary incarnate, and if you dare to express your honest opinion on this board and do not blindly follow and worship Bush, then you're automatically a vile person. Some days ago, Democrat invited one of them to offer a topic for debate, but that has yet to happen. Instead, the poster has, 100% of the time, chosen to bash other posters.
It's a great idea, GT, but the more I think about it, they aren't happy unless they can disrupt others who try to pursue intelligent, worthwhile, tolerant discussion. They tell us to leave the conservative board and stay on our own board, and when we do and there isn't any more fighting on their board, they come here and start because they HAVE to have their fix of liberal bashing for the day. The more I see it, the more it looks like a sick, twisted addiction.
I've made a list, and, unfortunately, it seems to be growing every day. The ones who only want to insult and bash don't get a response from me any more. In fact, I've stopped reading their posts because I already know it's more bashing, so it's a huge waste of time.
As far as ownership of the board, there just might be a new owner, because they no longer seem to favor one group of posters over another group as much, as seemed to be the case before.
But, hey, I'd love to be able to discuss issues in a friendly, respectful manner, and I'm in favor of anything that could promote that! 
IN ADDITION, just log off, you are such miserable LOSERS
WE WON AND WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM US ??????
Right back at ya...with the addition of financial ruin...
if Obama and Biden are "hired."
First proposed addition to Obama's admin....
Rahm Emanuel. Headed the effort to re-elect Richard Daley mayor of Chicago...firmly entrenched in the Chicago political machine. "From work earlier in his career, Emanuel considers Mayor Richard M. Daley, Senator Paul Simon and President Bill Clinton to be his professional mentors." Could this be the shape of things to come? Doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy so far.
Are you reading the same thing I am reading? sm
Did you read Mein Kampf? Would that be good enough evidence for you, because he wrote about it in there. Good grief, you people won't admit when you are wrong and frankly, that is pretty darned frightening!
Good for Joe! I hope so. And I hope he sues...
the governor of the state of Ohio from now to next week. He should. They BIG time violated his civil rights. If this situation was reversed and he was a Dem who had asked McCain a question and a state had had him investigated, the ACLU would be all over this like ugly on an ape. Liberals only care about other liberals...they could care LESS what happens to conservatives. But yeah, they are all about civil liberties. Geez. Pull the other leg awhile.
I'm not reading it and here's why. SM
*Breaking News from the Progressive Community* is not exactly unbiased now is it?
Yes, and while you are reading it...
look very closely at "here is where things get murky. Bill CLinton, Sandy Berger, and Richard Clarke all denied..."
Good grief. Bill Clinton committed felony perjury. Yes, i am going to believe him...NOT. Sandy "socks" Berger...am I going to believe him...not hardly. Richard Clarke...you have GOT to be kidding. The man who confessed that HE was the one who first outed Valerie Plame.
Factcheck.org left a lot out of their fact checking. And saying it doesn't matter anyway because they couldn't prove he had not done anything wrong yet...the three above obviously aren't concerned about truth. Fact remains, he had the chance, he did not take it, and if bin laden had been in jail or a CIA prison somewhere he could not have plotted and financed 9-11.
Nice try, but I don't buy it. Didn't then, don't now.
Okay, Sam, I did some reading....
I read your response and I thought maybe I don't know the difference so I went looking and everything I can find makes those two out to be the same thing...
**McCain has made opposition to pork-barrel spending a central theme of his 2008 campaign. "Earmarking deprives federal agencies of scarce resources, at the whim of individual members of Congress," McCain has said.
**Three times in recent years, McCain's catalogs of "objectionable" spending have included earmarks for this small Alaska town, requested by its mayor at the time -- Sarah Palin.
**"So while Sen. McCain was going after cutting earmarks in Washington," said Steve Ellis of Taxpayers for Common Sense, "Gov. Palin was going after getting earmarks."
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-earmarks3-2008sep03,0,2482434.story
Now, I am sorry, but to me they are the same thing. Again, as I have said before, I am not being hateful - I am truly trying to grasp what the difference is.
Reading what he says is..
more enjoyable than listening to him. I sometimes want to listen to what he has to say, but he sounds so whiney and preachy I can't stand it. He's kind of way out there, but I do see his point on some things. So, thanks for posting the link.
And yet....there you are reading...LOL.
You guys are so petty its ridiculous.
Oh, believe you me not into reading about her
I saw this on CNN's front page as I scanned over some stories. Let me explain why you think she scares the loonies. Anyone who does not seem to have the intelligence of a dingbat and yet has people voting for her because of her looks, her clothing, whatever the cause was, now that is the scary part.I answered email from lady in Tennessee, a bible-thumping rightwinged holy-roller and she was almost scary in her adoration of Palin. From her first news interviews (well, the 1 or 2 that she actually did, the camp tried to keep her under lock and key) I certainly thought what in the world was that old white only mostly repubs trying to do. I never thought she was any kind of political heavy and now with her tit and TAT back and forth with her almost son-in-law, just proves it even further. I fully think before long they will be more at each other's throats with lawsuits and what have you. Just sitting back watching the implosion.
Have you not been reading? NO I SM
DO NOT SUPPORT my son in this lifestyle. I made that plain. If there are kids who have been killed by homosexuals and not getting any press, that is the fault of the press, not your fault or mine. I agree there is an agenda to push homosexuality down our throats. I don't want it. By the same token, AGAIN, there are homosexuals being killed because they are homosexuals. Are the kids being killed because they are kids or because the sickos (whether straight or homosexuals) just want to kill them, anybody, child adult whatever.
I do not say anything because I have a son who is homosexual, he knows how I feel and his father and I make no bones about it so you have no right to even come across like that lady. I do not have my head in the sand. I believe my son is committing a sin. He does not bring that lifestyle around his father and I or the rest of his family.
Hmmmmmmm let me guess, you are one of the parents who would disown your child because he was gay? Would you disown him for any other sin or would you tell him you don't want taht around you and make sure he knows exactly how you feel.
You are a hippocrit Patty!
I cannot believe that I'm reading such
ignorance as I am from some of you people. You talk about how torturing terrorists is serious and how horrible. Poor wittle terrorists.....tear. Yet you seem to forget that these terrorists want YOU dead and would sooner cut your head off than look at you. Give me a break and spare me your pathetic comments. I'm done talking to you terrorist sympathizers. God forbid any of these terrorists should bomb any place you are at because you might think differently when you are being blown up...that is if you have the time to think about it. Goodnight. I'm tired of this BS.
Actually, the way I am reading it is the media is DOING it. SM
Looking for some dirt. That's the way I read the article. Time will tell I guess.
reading my mind too?
LMAO! Nope, I dont care, not at all, LOL, gee you are able to read peoples minds too, hun? Attack number one trillion against gt, LOL.
Yes! Reading your posts is EXACTLY like that!
How insightful of you (as opposed to your customary *incitefulness*).
Try reading this site. SM
You might also learn what actions of the prostestors during VN had on the soldiers who fought there then, just as they are now.
I am looking forward to reading
Stephen Colbert's book "I am America and so can you." I got a little preview this morning on Tim Russert. It promises to be a delicious, laugh-out-loud satire.
to mtstudent. I have been reading
your posts with interests and I can't help but feel this is way more personal than just principle. I guess I am partly to blame if someone close to you has gone to jail for breaking the law, because I am one of those wanting stricter laws or at least enforcement of the ones we have. and I don't want to see any more cops punished for upholding the laws. I regret it and cringe everytime I hear one of them is no better than than those he arrests because it makes it hard on the plentiful good cops out there. It has not escaped my attention that you repeatedly refer to the "poor black men". Excuse me? I am afraid blacks don't hold the title to this one. There are plenty of poor men and women in jail. I do feel sorry for a lot of them - I also feel sorry for people who did not have enough sense to stay away from drugs and screwed up their lives and for especially for those families who have tried to help them and failed at great price. I also feel sorry for the children they leave behind without parenting or for the lack of parenting they themselves may not have had. I also feel sorry for people with maxed out credit card debt who can't seem to claw their way back out. I was almost one of them, but never again. We thought back in the 60's that education about sex, birth control and drugs was the answer and apparently, we were dead wrong. I just don't see any improvement at all. Noted the comments about abortion and such on this very board, but no one brings up the fact some people don't want abortion or birth control, because it is a pay raise everytime they have another kid. I am afraid that is our fault as a society even though we thought they needed help at the time, it apparently has bred a whole nother way of thinking that was unforeseen and had led to apathy, laziness and greed. Yeah, I know it helped plenty, but there are certainly plenty of stories about single mother who raised 6 to 8 kids alone working 2 to 3 jobs and ended up with a houseful of lawyers and doctors and such. I know one such woman myself with 8 kids who has never been on welfare. It is a matter of pride with her and I applaud her for it. Honestly, I don't know how she did it when their father either was on the street dealing or in jail. In fact, she had to buy groceries as needed because he would break in and steal food from their kids. It just kinda bothers me you seem to have sympathy for only the poor black men of this country and I can only surmise there is a far more personal event going on here. I am sorry for your personal misery, but we have to get a handle on the drugs in this country instead of building them a highway from Mexico to deliver them on.
Are you reading the tabloids? You
can't possibly believe that story...and if you do, it just proves how gullible many people are.
Exactly what I said below......smut reading
xx
It's too bad you stopped reading...sm
Sam brings up valid, positive points, and those on the left turn her off, rather than listen to the truth, because it comes from her.
She isn't bitter at all. It always sounds like the left is, when dealing with her, rather than listen to the truth, even when you expounded so much on the facts. If the facts bear up the right, they must not be facts, are therefore ignored.
Anything of substance she's reading from the
She is very nervous obviously.
after reading this, I qualify what I said above...
Obama is not a communist YET. He is in the socialist stage.
A course in reading comprehension
would not be a bad thing. Read all my posts and I have said I would rather take a chance on Obama than McCain. Furthermore, I had said that I would vote AGAINST McCain, never FOR Obama. Think what you want. I don't deal in smoke screens. I say what I mean and mean what I say. Again, I would prefer an Obama administration over a McCain administration....true. What I would really like to see is a Lou Dobbs type person, a voice of reason in the White House. Count on it........I will write in Lou Dobbs and I KNOW that is a wasted vote but I am voting my conscience......the best any of us can do.
No the election has not been held. Bad times ahead either way.........McCain has incited hatred of Obama..........if McCain wins....think Black Power and how unhappy they're going to be. A no win situation. I FEAR blood shed either way.
So there ya go..........any questions?
Reading comprehension
I SAID see how rumors get started. Draw your own conclusions. When references are cited, yes, I believe them once I have checked them out.
VOTING FOR LOU DOBBS!!!!!
what part of reading don't you get?
xx
I have been reading this post with
interest; amazing how we can agree on a lot of points. The comment from gp about old time democrats is often heard here, the trouble is that the parties have more or less changed places. The image of a guntoting bible thumping redneck used to be a bubba in his pickup who was a democrat, now it is a republican. From what I have been listening to the last year or so on late night and daytime radio, you are right, we are all screwed. supposedly, there are 350,000 UN troups already in place here. I believe they will be used to gather up all the guns. After that, we are sitting ducks like Australia, whose crime rate escalated over 300% the first year alone. We already have states who have made it against the law to defend yourself or children in your own home. Amazing. We have not been involved enough the last 20-30 years with our children's education, happily leaving it to others who mostly happen to be liberals. I understand a religious person can never hope to attain a spot somewhere like the Smithsonian; they are all agnostics now. Just saying what I have heard; can't verify. I am very afraid the wagons have already been circled and we just did not know we were in the center. Starting to suspect stronger each day that the whole election is a set up that goes back decades; they were just waiting for the star of the show to come along (Obama), not even that sure about McCain anymore. Furious over the bailout. Think how Clinton pardoned Ayers, how much he and O reportedly can't stand each other, yet he and H are out campaigning for him for the Party, of course. Death penalty: I suspect a lot more of us would be happy with Life meaning life imprisonment as opposed to death sentence, if it were really a life sentence and not a few years instead. Well, this election is almost over; my hopes are not very high given all the current events. Like an old friend used to say, "I just don't know what's to become of us all". Keep up the interesting posts, ladies.
Try reading up on a subject
See post under sam's blather.
I loved reading that
I still don't understand why Obama singled out Pennsylvanians with those statements. Does anybody know why who follows this stuff "religiously" (dare I use the word)?
Reading your posts
I do not see the intelligence, much less the literacy.
and why was that worth reading?
I got nothing from that except that it is one more person who does not like Obama.
There was nothing in there that was not just one person's personal viewpoint - an obvious McCain supporter.
Me too! That was great reading. nm
x
Get your reading glasses
and examine the document for yourself. I do believe Factcheck is pretty reliable. You are not going to accept anything short of Obama being declared a non-citizen and that just ain't gonna happen.
Not sure what Bible you are reading........... sm
but the quote I posted (paraphrased) is actually attributed to Joseph Dunniger. Correctly quoted, it reads "For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not believe, no explanation will suffice."
Talk about needing to check one's sources! 
you're not reading this right
He has said repeatedly that we need to end tax breaks for companies that ship jobs overseas. That being said, what he is emphasizing here is the need for the up-and-coming generation to be better educated to compete on a more global level. His main point is we need a better education system. He isn't talking about shipping your job to India. Heavens knows that has been happening long before Obama was elected.
Am I reading this wrong?
I read it 3 times and it's not sinking in. I have emphasized parts below.
"It might be hard to convince large numbers of people to voluntarily pay more in taxes. This is where the Peterson Foundation comes in. They are spending huge amounts of money trying to convince young people that they are being ripped off by their parents and grandparents. They are even promoting front groups of young people to advance this effort.
With his billion dollars, Peterson could convince a huge number of gullible young people to tax advantage of the intergenerational equity tax credit. Insofar as he is successful in this effort, he can help to generate billions of dollars that can be used for items like health care, preschool education, and other pressing needs.
So, let's join efforts with Mr. Peterson and encourage his followers to take advantage of the Peter G. Peterson Intergenerational Fairness Tax Credit. There is a word for taking money from willfully ignorant young people who would deny their parents and grandparents the Social Security and Medicare benefits they need to survive: justice. "
Is this a farce or is this writer serious???? If he's serious, then I know why our local paper call-in line has a lot of people calling to complain about senior citizens living "high off the hog." My mother, who worked 48 years, got a whole $500 a month SS and that includes 1/2 of my dad's. My husband has worked 46 years and paid in $45,212 to SS and $10,275 Medicare. He will be getting between $1167 to $1561 a month SS between the ages of 62 and 65. If he lives until he is 90 which I doubt, he will have collected $35,040, which is a little more than what he earns net every year, yet his taxable income for SS came out over $648,000 since age 16. I worked 2 years less than my hubby and will only get $700-$1000 (comes from women making less than men) because I had no earnings for a year and they knocked me down from $1000 a month to $200 a month in SS, so it took me almost 10 years to get back up there. That's a rip off if you ask me.
BTW, I do hope everyone checks their SS Statement when it comes. I found plenty of mistakes on them between hubby and mine and had to get them corrected.
say something worth reading
You are BORING with your same rants day after day. Especially when they were already discussed on last nights news. I'm not wasting my time. Have fun, I guess?
Reading your post
You sound just as bad as the ones you call ignorant and nasty, just on the other end. I am intelligent, definitely not backwoods, and definitely not hateful or nasty, but Jesus Christ is still my Lord and Savior. Choosing to follow Christ is a spiritual, INTELLECTUAL, and emotional experience. All three have to be involved.
I stayed out of this "gay" argument because it's useless. But I feel I need to say something about a few things you pointed out.
First - Sodom and Gomorrah - It is very clear in Genesis 18 and 19 that the main sin of S&G was homosexuality. When the angels visited S&G, a group of men accosted them at Lot's house and wanted them to come out so they could "know" them. Now you may say "well that just means they wanted to know who they were" but in the next verse Lot offers his daughters to the men so they might leave the visitors alone. Clearly if they all lived in the same town they already knew who Lot's daughters were, and had no reason to meet them, if that is what "know" meant (King James Version).
You are absolutely right. You can take a verse out of the Bible and twist it anyway you want. Which is why it needs to be read in context.
Second, marriage was created as a representation of the relationship of God with the church (church being a group of people, not a building). The first marriage was Adam and Eve, by God Himself.
And last but not least, this hatred and spewing issue.
God does not, has not, and never will give us the right to be nasty to others. Jesus Christ COMMANDED us to love our "enemies". If anyone on here is professing to be a Christian and in the same breath being hateful or ugly, they need to check themselves NOW.
However, just stating an oppositional opinion is not hate or bigotry. But it should be done politely and without name-calling. There is a way to debate topics without being hateful!
I think the reason homosexuality and abortion gets attacked so much from "crazy delusional bible-thumpers" as some put it, is because it is so out in the open, and so socially accepted. What to do about that, I don't know.
It is unfair to ask us as Christians to take our faith off when we are outside our homes or churches though. It is not a cloak we can remove whenever we want. It is inside us, it is our life, and we have just as much right to live it and follow the commandments of our God then any other person in this country.
As for people saying that they have it shoved down their throats, I highly doubt it. If someone comes to the door and you don't want to hear it, just politely say "no thanks!". Or better yet, leave a note on your door that you don't want to hear it if you want!
I've said it before and I'll say it again: if you try to witness to someone or talk to them about Jesus and they don't want to hear it, SHUT UP. It doesn't do any good to push.
I don't agree with the ugly words and name-calling, but I have to say you did quite a bit of it in this post yourself, which I took offense to. Two wrongs don't make a right!
That being said, I understand you were upset and venting, so it's cool, but I would appreciate it if you could drop a few of the "delusionals," "twisted" and "backwoods" comments :)
What reports are you reading.. your OWN
nm
Reading this crap is what
Why do you call him the messiah? Can't anyone do a good job without your sour grapes bubbling over?
Your posts make me sick. If Obama stood on his head and spit out wooden nickels, you would somehow find fault with that and post some inflammatory statement about it. That's what is SICK.
Spending..AND not even reading what they are
nm
After reading all the posts in this thread,
You definitely won, hands down, no contest because you speak the truth.
(Don't ya just love the word "insufferable?" I think it's used mostly by those "tater" people when they start sputterin' and spoutin' and spittin'!) 
Wow, that was long. I'm not reading it. You don't own the board. sm
You stepped into a conversation with another liberal and myself, where we were logically discussing calling a truce, with your hate-filled screed and oneupsmanship and brought this all on yourself and you just won't admit it. Have a nice day. 
Thanks. Very much looking forward to reading more of your views.
I tend to think, after reading this, t hat you are the one out of touch
with Jewish teachings. It would seem to me that rabbis saying these things would carry a lot more weight. As far as the number who attended, that doesn't seem important. It is what they are saying that carries import. I don't think you speak for the Jewish community.
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