You're right--that's why noone ever goes to prison for murder. nm

• roman catholic - just a little info for ya
  • Wrong. - Harbinger
    • IF life begins at conception - technically
      • Wrong again. Care to take another whack at it? - Harbinger
      • politics and religion go hand in hand... - Kendra
        • we don't have a law against - murder
          • You're right--that's why noone ever goes to prison for murder. nm - Kendra
        • Perhaps this is why - insurance does not pay
          • My insurance pays for birth control. - NM
          • whose insurance does not pay for birth control? - Kendra

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1 a: a moral discourse, statement, or lesson b: a literary or other imaginative work teaching a moral lesson2 a: a doctrine or system of moral conduct bplural : particular moral principles or rules of conduct3: conformity to ideals of right human conduct4: moral conduct : virtue

That's taking it a bit out there, isn't it? You took a simple statement aimed at SEXUAL morality - which obviously was too much for you to comprehend - and defended your stance with broad-based BS. It's my fault teenagers are having sex? Hahahahahahaha...........yep, Bill's right. Why don't you adopt those millions of babies if you are so worried about them - obviously the people having abortions do not want them. It's okay to go to Iraq and kill millions of innocent civilians but abortion is murder? What an oxyMORON. Might as well advocate torture while you are at it.

Go Nascar!  If you had the money Obama did, you wouldn't spend it on your kids? Is it any of your business? BTW, that was not a shot at Palin's daughter - it was a point in fact. I feel sorry for that poor girl being paraded around in front of millions of people. Look at her eyes. She's terrified. How awful. They knew perfectly well what they were doing when they dug Palin out of the hat and they knew perfectly well her daughter was pregnant. M-A-N-I-P-U-L-A-T-I-O-N.

Beat that drum.......someone might listen

plan and simple.  People scream and complain about the war and how we are killing innocent people.....yet they never seem to focus on the innocent children who are murdered by their mothers every day in our own country.  Those are the real baby killers.  That is a human life that you are getting rid of....disposing off like it is trash. 

It amazes me how a pregnant woman can be killed and it is considered a double homicide and yet other pregnant woman can go kill the baby themselves at a clinic and that is okay.....no big deal.  Talk about a contradiction.  I living thing is a living thing whether it is still in the womb or not.  You kill it.....you are a murderer!!!

Updated: 8:07 p.m. ET Nov. 2, 2005

WASHINGTON - Nearly 7 million adults were in U.S. prisons or on probation or parole at the end of last year, 30 percent more than in 1995, the Justice Department said Wednesday.

That was about one in every 31 adults under correctional supervision at the end of 2004, compared with about 1 in 36 adults in 1995 and about 1 adult in every 88 in 1980, said Allan J. Beck, who oversaw the preparation of the department’s annual report on probation and parole populations.

Beck attributed the overall rise in the number of people under correctional supervision to sentencing reforms of the 1990s. The nation’s incarcerated population has been increasing for more than 30 years, with sharp growth in the last decade.He said crime rates have fallen in recent years, which helps account for slower growth among people on probation — those allowed to live in the community with some restrictions rather than being incarcerated.

The number of people on probation in 2004 grew by 6,343 to about 4.2 million in 2004, the report said.

Nearly 50 percent of all probationers at the end of last year were convicted of a felony. Twenty-six percent were on probation for a drug-law violation, and 15 percent for driving while intoxicated, said the annual Justice Department report.

Racial imbalance persists in probation
Whites made up 56 percent of the probation population and only 34 percent of the prison population, according to Wednesday’s report and another Justice Department report released last month.

“White people — for whatever reason — seem to have more access to community supervision than African Americans and Hispanics,” said Jason Ziedenberg, executive director of the Justice Policy Institute, which promotes alternatives to incarceration. He called probation a cheaper and more effective form of rehabilitation.

Blacks, he noted, comprised 30 percent of probationers and 41 percent of prisoners at the end of 2004. Hispanics made up 12 percent of the probation population and 19 percent of the prison population

Parolees grew fastest among those under correctional supervision. They are criminal offenders who rejoin society with restrictions for a time after they complete a prison term.

Number of parolees grows
The adult parole population grew 20,230, or 2.7 percent, during the year, more than twice the average annual increase of 1.3 percent since 1995, the report said. The total number of parolees at the end of 2004 was 765,355.

Beck said a late 1990s spike in prison populations is now showing up in the number of parolees, as the number of prisoners released rises.

The parole population grew during 2004 in 39 states, with double-digit growth in 10 states, led by Nebraska’s 24 percent increase. The number of people on parole decreased in nine states and didn’t change in Maine.

About 187,000, or 39 percent of discharged parolees went back to prison or jail in 2005. While the number has grown, the rate has held relatively stable since 1995, when 160,000, or 39 percent of discharged parolees returned to incarceration.

The total number of people incarcerated in the United States grew 1.9 percent in 2004 to 2,267,787 people, according to the report released last month.

Yes, this country does have laws that protect citizens from being murdered.

A "citizen" is defined someone who "is born or naturalized in the United States."

Fetuses, embryos, etc. aren't born or naturalized.  The issue of when life begins is akin to the "chicken/egg" question and will never be answered to the satisfaction of everyone.  It relies mostly on religious views, and one's religious views shouldn't be forced on someone else who may not believe the same.

Again, I believe in minding my own business and NOT judging someone who may have or has had an abortion because it's none of my business.

If you don't believe in abortion, then I guess the simplest answer is:  Don't have one.

Friday, Nov. 10, 2006
Exclusive: Charges Sought Against Rumsfeld Over Prison Abuse
A lawsuit in Germany will seek a criminal prosecution of the outgoing Defense Secretary and other U.S. officials for their alleged role in abuses at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo
By ADAM ZAGORIN

Just days after his resignation, former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is about to face more repercussions for his involvement in the troubled wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. New legal documents, to be filed next week with Germany's top prosecutor, will seek a criminal investigation and prosecution of Rumsfeld, along with Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, former CIA director George Tenet and other senior U.S. civilian and military officers, for their alleged roles in abuses committed at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison and at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

The plaintiffs in the case include 11 Iraqis who were prisoners at Abu Ghraib, as well as Mohammad al-Qahtani, a Saudi held at Guantanamo, whom the U.S. has identified as the so-called 20th hijacker and a would-be participant in the 9/11 hijackings. As TIME first reported in June 2005, Qahtani underwent a special interrogation plan, personally approved by Rumsfeld, which the U.S. says produced valuable intelligence. But to obtain it, according to the log of his interrogation and government reports, Qahtani was subjected to forced nudity, sexual humiliation, religious humiliation, prolonged stress positions, sleep deprivation and other controversial interrogation techniques.

Lawyers for the plaintiffs say that one of the witnesses who will testify on their behalf is former Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, the one-time commander of all U.S. military prisons in Iraq. Karpinski — who the lawyers say will be in Germany next week to publicly address her accusations in the case — has issued a written statement to accompany the legal filing, which says, in part: It was clear the knowledge and responsibility [for what happened at Abu Ghraib] goes all the way to the top of the chain of command to the Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld .

A spokesperson for the Pentagon told TIME there would be no comment since the case has not yet been filed.

Along with Rumsfeld, Gonzales and Tenet, the other defendants in the case are Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence Stephen Cambone; former assistant attorney general Jay Bybee; former deputy assisant attorney general John Yoo; General Counsel for the Department of Defense William James Haynes II; and David S. Addington, Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff. Senior military officers named in the filing are General Ricardo Sanchez, the former top Army official in Iraq; Gen. Geoffrey Miller, the former commander of Guantanamo; senior Iraq commander, Major General Walter Wojdakowski; and Col. Thomas Pappas, the one-time head of military intelligence at Abu Ghraib.

Germany was chosen for the court filing because German law provides universal jurisdiction allowing for the prosecution of war crimes and related offenses that take place anywhere in the world. Indeed, a similar, but narrower, legal action was brought in Germany in 2004, which also sought the prosecution of Rumsfeld. The case provoked an angry response from Pentagon, and Rumsfeld himself was reportedly upset. Rumsfeld's spokesman at the time, Lawrence DiRita, called the case a a big, big problem. U.S. officials made clear the case could adversely impact U.S.-Germany relations, and Rumsfeld indicated he would not attend a major security conference in Munich, where he was scheduled to be the keynote speaker, unless Germany disposed of the case. The day before the conference, a German prosecutor announced he would not pursue the matter, saying there was no indication that U.S. authorities and courts would not deal with allegations in the complaint.

In bringing the new case, however, the plaintiffs argue that circumstances have changed in two important ways. Rumsfeld's resignation, they say, means that the former Defense Secretary will lose the legal immunity usually accorded high government officials. Moreover, the plaintiffs argue that the German prosecutor's reasoning for rejecting the previous case — that U.S. authorities were dealing with the issue — has been proven wrong.

The utter and complete failure of U.S. authorities to take any action to investigate high-level involvement in the torture program could not be clearer, says Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional Rights, a U.S.-based non-profit helping to bring the legal action in Germany. He also notes that the Military Commissions Act, a law passed by Congress earlier this year, effectively blocks prosecution in the U.S. of those involved in detention and interrogation abuses of foreigners held abroad in American custody going to back to Sept. 11, 2001. As a result, Ratner contends, the legal arguments underlying the German prosecutor's previous inaction no longer hold up.

Whatever the legal merits of the case, it is the latest example of efforts in Western Europe by critics of U.S. tactics in the war on terror to call those involved to account in court. In Germany, investigations are under way in parliament concerning cooperation between the CIA and German intelligence on rendition — the kidnapping of suspected terrorists and their removal to third countries for interrogation. Other legal inquiries involving rendition are under way in both Italy and Spain.

U.S. officials have long feared that legal proceedings against war criminals could be used to settle political scores. In 1998, for example, former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet — whose military coup was supported by the Nixon administration — was arrested in the U.K. and held for 16 months in an extradition battle led by a Spanish magistrate seeking to charge him with war crimes. He was ultimately released and returned to Chile. More recently, a Belgian court tried to bring charges against then Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon for alleged crimes against Palestinians.

For its part, the Bush Administration has rejected adherence to the International Criminal Court (ICC) on grounds that it could be used to unjustly prosecute U.S. officials. The ICC is the first permanent tribunal established to prosecute war crimes, genocide and other crimes against humanity.

and every day, 50 million total so far in this country and counting, and now we will pay for abortions worldwide.  Social Security is bankrupt but would not be if those 50 million innocent children had had a choice for life.  No one can deny that fact.

Add it up:  Abortion kills 4000 innocent babies each day.  Queers do not populate.

I would definitely say we are practicing population control, and Obama gonna see we practice worldwide. 

to the whole country.  They're trying to take it over.  They want to control which God you believe in, who you love and what you do with your body, be it regarding life or regarding death.  If you don't voluntarily agree to turn your free will over to their control, they will hunt you down and nag you to death (since they can't do anything more violent on a message board).  It's obvious they are sick, sick people and need major help.

But they ARE like watching a car wreck and are sometimes hard to ignore.

I've thought about it, and for me personally, the very best thing to do is ignore them and for 2 reasons: 

1.  Ignoring them and not reading their posts makes my visit on this board much more pleasant.  I already know I'm not missing anything because there isn't one post on this entire board written by them that has contributed anything of value or intelligence.

2.  If we all refuse to read and respond to their posts, they might give up and go find another board to terrorize.  I doubt that, though, because they've taken over this board and simply don't have the CLASS to leave.  They take pride in their bully on the playground mentality and are proud of their ignorant behavior.  They will probably just continue to pat themselves on their backs on this board.  The only thing that might startle them and cause them to stop is that the NUMBER of posts on the Liberal board are starting to increase heavily as a direct result of their posting.  In the past, they've used the Liberal board's lower numbers to trash us for not being as interesting, when, in fact, the CON board must be pretty boring if they are always choosing to be HERE instead.

Like I said, I've decided that I'd like my visits here to be pleasant, so I'm just going to stop subjecting myself to their cesspools of attacks.  They've proven their posts aren't worth wasting time reading, so I'm just going to stop and will feel much better as a result of stopping.

If I find anything, I'll be sure to post it, but I doubt he's going to be saying much.  I think he understandably wants to distance himself as far away from this administration as he can. 

I wish he would run for President.  I'd very proudly vote for him in a heartbeat!  I'd finally be able to vote for the best candidate instead of the least worst one. 

I agree with you, and I admire and respect him very much.

It's clear the ONLY people who have true freedom of speech and freedom of thought in this country are Bush disciples.  In addition, they have the freedom to lie to the rest of America.

Don't despair.  It won't be long before a Pat Robertsonesque appointee thug of Bush will be seizing my computer, bugging my phone and knocking at my door, ready to lock me up simply because I express my distaste for a President who is incapable of telling the truth to ANYONE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD, as he wraps himself in the Holy Bible and American Flag.  His enemies aren't *terrorists.*  If they were, I wouldn't be able to get on a plane now with a knife again.

His enemies are Americans who have the audacity to pay attention, think freely and voice their opinions.

My freedom of speech, free thought, expression, religion, ETC. is about to come to a screeching halt very soon.

You'd better hope you continue to obey the master, remain in step and NEVER stray from the flock.  Otherwise, the next freedom-ending screech I hear could be YOURS.