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but my point was that our education quality had not suffered -

Posted By: Amanda on 2008-10-30
In Reply to: By the way - Kendra

I was posting in response to the fact that it was stated what would the quality of the education be if everyone could go for free. I don't think quality would suffer in the least whether the money was coming from the individual or from a scholarship fund. The school would still be getting their funds to provide a quality education.


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Obama's education versus Palin's education
Barack Obama attended Occidental College, but received his undergraduate degree in political science from Columbia University, an Ivy League member currently ranked 9th in the country by U.S. News and World Report. Obama also graduated Magna Cum Laude from the Harvard Law School, where he also served as President of the Harvard Law Review.

Palin spent her first college semester at Hawaii Pacific College, transferring in 1983 to North Idaho College and then to the University of Idaho. She attended Matanuska-Susitna College in Alaska for one term, returning to the University of Idaho to complete her Bachelor of Science degree in communications-journalism, graduating in 1987.
being rude is also an unfavorable quality in an MT
it makes us look like we dont have any social skills.
Certainly the Jews have suffered enough but not enough for Cindy. Educate yourself. nm

Perhaps you could enlighten us on the economic crisis suffered by
There is nothing in your chart or context that convincingly explains away the $559 billion dollar surplus Clinton left behind when his term came to an end.

Having said that, most Americans will agree that, when compared to the past 8 years, the middle class enjoyed a prosperous decade in the 90s. I was able to pay off my condo, so it has been foreclosure-proof under W.
Then Again, how many would have lived and suffered atrocities if Hitler's mom had had an abortion
I am not trying to be flip or funny here, because it is not, but I do not think we can use that particular logic...just say that ALL life is precious, whether a baby grows up to be Einstein, Ghandi, or Charles Manson, it either must ALL be in God's hands because He is Creator of All, or there is no logic. Just wonder how everyone feels about the ultimate sanctity of life when it comes to capital punishment....

Don't get me wrong, I amy be a Democrate, but I am moderate and I DO believe, in instances such as the rape/murder/brulity of children, serial killers, etc, that putting a monster like this to sleep, as you would a rabid animal who will kill and destroy otherwise, is the best thing we can do for our sick society, not perfectly okay, but the best that can be done to protect others. But whenever I see this particular reason NOT to abort, it makes it sound as though if a child were retarded or slow, or even a sociopath (not a psychopath), it would be okay, PLAYING GOD IS PLAYING GOD in either case. IMHO
appropriate sex education

to protect them against advances of sexual predators.  It's all how you twist the words.  Remember, too much twisting and you cut off the blood supply and wither away.  watch out mcc.


 


Sex education??
I think it is very appropriate to begin teaching children about good touching and bad touching way before kindergarten even. Yes, it should be done in the homes, but a lot of people do not address the subject with their children... it is the children who end up getting hurt by not having the information about what to do when/if this happens to them.
This has nothing to do with EDUCATION
it's just my opinion.
Keep it SHORT ! Even better: Start from the end, then it is shorter.
Today everything has to be short. Even a resume should not be longer than 1 page.

Obama is 47 years old and spent ONLY 10 years in Indonesia, when he was a kid.
I do not have to back up every thought I have on this forum.
These are answers to comments I disagree with.
Well, on the subject of sex education...
I doubt Bristol thought what she engaged in could not cause pregnancy. I feel sure she knows what makes babies.

Now I am sure that out here in real america there are many thousands of families who have had a pregnancy like this in their families or know of one in close acquaintances. I don't think this argument is going to hold any water with them and I think they would be insulted by this.

Your Candidate knows that, that is why he just wishes that all his supporters who think they are helping him would just stop.
Obama and education...
http://townhall.com/Columnists/ThomasSowell/2008/10/09/the_real_obama_part_iii
You need to get some education in taxes
Get off that poor people pity pot. I'm so sick of it. We know poor people when we see them and that AIN'T what Obama is talking about. He wants to give to anyone and everything that sits on their butts and takes from me already. And for those half of all Americans who pay NO taxes, he wants to give them free money, even though they pay nothing into the system.

Yea, right! Boy is that fair!

We all know where this money is going and I couldn't care less if you want to harp on things that do not represent him. He is not looking out for anyone but the ones he considers "oppressed". if there is any oppression going on in this country, it is coming directly from Obama, but those he stirs the pot trying to brew up all the racial undertones he continuously spews, he knows exactly what he's doing.

I pay out my butt for those so-called poor and believe me, after all the freebies they have more than my family has. They don't worry about healthcare, food, clothes, shelter....but we do.

The "poor" as you put it sit on their butts with their 10 children all week and then drag their feet down to the ER on Friday and Saturday nights to sit and get their free medical care for their chidren, because all of them now have a sniffle. Medicaid will pay for anything, including laziness.

THere is no hatred in her heart, just fed up. We have poor people in my family and we look out for each other; they have never taken a handout. We know the truly poor when we see them and the ones getting ALL THE WINDFALL money from ME....well, honey, they ain't poor.

Leaches maybe and "illegals" maybe, but the ones in my community ain't poor. They have NEW free homes and they are a h@ll of a lot better off than the really poor.

And lets not fool ourselves as to what ACORN is really all about. They have bought black votes with alcohol, tobacco, and God only knows what else. The people they drag up by the busloads to participate in absentee ballots, well, we all know those folks don't have a clue what is going on in this world and to be honest, they don't care.

Now, if ACORN tells them hey, look, you can get a black man in the Presidency, boy oh boy, and we'll give you stuff for that vote, well, what do you think those "poor" folks you are so concerned about are going to do.

ACORN is all about the "black" vote and lets not pretend otherwise. Please give some people credit for having a real brain with real common sense.


the education credit -
Obama says the first $4000 of an education would be free and that you would have to work doing community service to pay for that.  That being said, if you want a community college education, $4000 would pay that - if you want an advnaced degree, then of course it would not be free.
Get an education, BadBreath
He only vetoed GOVERNMENT FUNDING of research. He never outlawed research. Get a clue and learn the difference.

Just like a Dem - wanting other people to pay for their stuff.
Dang! then I could have gotten a free education
because I'm 1/8 Indian???

Even if Ward is a tad Indian that doesn't mean he was brought up in the culture and was qualified to speak for Indians. He's not even qualified to speak for 99% Americans given the stuff he spews.
It's good to know that his ivy league education
is being put to good use :o)-
He does favor sex education for kindergartners...
ABC News' Teddy Davis and Lindsey Ellerson Report: Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., told Planned Parenthood Tuesday that sex education for kindergarteners, as long as it is "age-appropriate," is "the right thing to do."
My question is, what part of sex education is age-appropriate for a 5-year-old? Can't we just let them be kids? Sigh.

And if the lipstick pig thing is a joke...it is in poor taste. In all honesty, I don't believe he actually meant to compare Sarah Palin to a pig. However, it was a poor choice of words. And if you look at the crowd he was talking to, THEY thought he was talking about Sarah Palin. That is why they stood up and had a big laugh over it.

In politics, sadly, perception is everything...and most people perceive he was taking a low blow shot at Palin.
OK. so education doesn't count and
su
I agree you have to focus on education
but how do you pay for it? I make as much as the teachers in my school system, but they all have master's degrees and spend years paying off those loans. It seems fair that they would make more than me, but they don't and in some cases make even less. Then there are people who say education is important but the teachers are overpaid. What kind of a teacher are you going to get if you pay them poorly?

Then there is always the argument that the school system wastes money. I don't see that where I live. My kids have gotten a quality education with buildings in great shape, gifted education programs, etc.

People complain that we have to pay for buses or sports now, so there must be waste in the system. But they are not taking into account the higher cost of heat, electricity, etc. They just think there should be level funding with no thought to increasing costs.
about that free college education
I posted this below but I think it will not get noticed 'cuz it is so far down and I am really wondering about it. My daughter, who graduated law school, has over 100K in student loans for her education. She is working hard to pay that back. What happens to those? She is killing herself to pay back while the next guy gets for free? I don't think so. Will Obama also forgive those loans? If not, I would expect greater default than we now see. And I would certainly expect to see a lot of professionals, the people with those big loans, protesting this deal big time. Just wondering if anyone else has any input there. I know people spent up to 20 years paying off those loans, and I would certainly resent spending 20 years paying off something that everyone is getting for free. That 100K applied to their mortgage would certainly be nice!! Might even allow her to work less hours and be home with the family more.
He'll probably be placed in the Dept. of Education LOL
xxx
really, sex education is the parent's responsibility...
in my opinion. Also, I am sure that the poor quality of the educational system as a whole also contributes to this high rate of pregnancy in teens and we all know that low income teens are more likely to get pregnant and Mississippi is a poor state. I think that there are several contributing factors and it is very difficult to isolate just one. However, before anyone gets too upset, I am not against educating kids about safe sex, I just think that abstinence should be included, as well, which it was not in my California high school.
didn't take an education to figure out that one
x
for 'sm' : Obama's education.....
What you say in your comment, is wrong, I quote from your post:

'I said he is a Muslim, raised by Muslims in a Muslim country, taught Islam as his religion until he was grown, ...'

This all wrong, I suggest that you are maore accurate in your research:

Obama attended only 4 years a school in Indonesia, from age 7 to 11, grade 1st to grAde 4th. And this was a catholic school!
When Obama was 11, in the year 1972, his mother, a catholic, brought him back to Honolulu, Hawai, into the care of her mother.
From that time on Obama received his education in American schools, in Honolulu and New York, Columbia University.

HE CERTAINLY NEVER TAUGHT ISLAM.

You need some serious education on fascist police states
if you are referring to the U.S. Now, parts of France on the other hand has had to become a police state at times due to the riots against almighty socialism. Irony is a fun thing to watch play out sometimes and also how people think the grass is greener anywhere but where they are.
Early "sex education" is not what some people are...sm
making it out to be.  It is actually teaching children of all ages, as early as kindergarten, to learn what is and is not acceptable behavior of adults toward them, that they should not hesitate to say no, yell, run away and tell, when anyone is inappropriate, especially in a sexual way, or makes them feel uncomfortable.  That is all.  Elizabeth Smart's father Ed Smart advocates the same thing.  Many, many children are traumatized every year because they are afraid to speak out when something like that happens.  I was one of them many years ago.  You might say that that is the parents' job.  I agree.  My mother did not warn me and I wish she had to say the least.  This criticism of Barak Obama is totally unwarranted, mostly made by republicans who jump the gun and do not get all the facts first. Shame on you!
Our public education system, somewhat off topic.

I  have heard so much about our education system and I'm sure some of it is true.  However, I would like to relay a recent experience I had......


Living in a small community that is loaded with history, I and a couple of other "older" ladies hosted the local 4th and 5th grades on a field trip regarding the history of a couple of landmarks.......anyone interested can visit my website http://www.ozarkmountainmemories.com and read about them. 


I was to do the historical presentation on the Cane Hill College Building.  My good friend was to do the presentation on the Old Mill.  Before I knew that there were 212 students plus teachers and parents, I opened my big mouth and said I would make cookies and Kool-Aid for the kid's field trip.  I ended up having a lot of help there!!!


Both my friend and I were very apprehensive about this field trip.  Well, I want to tell you that those were the best behaved kids I have seen in a long time.  This field trip was to prepare them to write an essay for the Arkansas Historical Society.  They were attentive and, asked very pertinent and intelligent questions.


One of the teachers called me yesterday and said that she was going to bring me some of the essays the kids had written.  She read one to me and it started out with "You may think the Cane Hill College is just a 2-story brick building...." and the student proceeded to write what  I would consider a very excellent essay.  I will post some of these on my website when I have them in hand.


I might also say that there were a good many parents present for the field trip.  I came away from that field trip with a whole different perspective on the local school, which is reputed to be one of the worst school districts in the state with the highest teen pregnancy rate.  I think if these 4th and 5th graders continue through high school with teachers such as I met and parents who are involved in their education, each and every one of them will be just A-okay.


Clowns who teach middle schoolers sex education!
I wonder when the ACLU will get involved....Isn't teaching waiting until marriage to have sex a religious viewpoint and what's it doing in public schools?

Video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvCvw...erallyi-CLOWNS

As clownish as Dye’s words may sound to you, they are unfortunately not rare ones for young people to hear in classrooms all over the country. Thanks to George W. Bush and a complicit Congress, we currently spend $1.5 billion a year to fund abstinence-only until marriage sex education in our public schools. And yes, that money goes to people like Derek Dye, as he is employed by the Elizabeth New Life Center that received a $800,000 CBAE grant in 2007 to promote abstinence until marriage. His qualifications? A “Bachelor of Fun Arts” from Barnum Bailey Clown College, and an abstinence educator certification that can be purchased for $50.

So… what’s wrong with abstinence-only until marriage sex education? Abstinence-only programs censor information about contraception and condoms; make moral judgments students may not share; stigmatize and shame students who have already had sex; and discriminate against GLBTQ students who can’t legally marry. These programs often encourage stereotypical gender roles, use scare tactics, blur religion and science, and contain factual errors, like saying that HIV can be spread through sweat and tears.

And using condoms is like juggling machetes…

What’s more, abstinence-only programs don’t work – independent study after study has shown that students who receive them don’t have lower pregnancy, HIV, or STI rates. And worse, students who receive abstinence-only programs are less likely to use contraception and condoms when they do have sex.

Then again, as one colleague told me today, nothing wants to make her have sex less than a clown… so maybe they’re on to something.

So… what can we do to make sure that abstinence-only programs like this one are not funded with our tax dollars? First of all, contact the Obama transition team to make sure that they ZERO OUT these programs in their first budget. Also, ending abstinence-only funding is currently 3rd place on Change.gov's user rankings, so you can go there and vote for it, too.

Secondly, we must contact all of our representatives to let them know that we do not want this waste of money being snuck back into the budget through the appropriations process. Send them that message here.

For those of you living in Ohio, call or email your Ohio State Senator today and urge them to co-sponsor the Act For Our Children’s Future, a bill to establish standards for comprehensive sexual health education in Ohio’s public schools.

LET’S SEND OUT THE CLOWNS!!!

Wouldn't that money be better spent on CONTRACEPTIVE funding and education sm
world-wide? How about we stop unwanted pregnancies before they occur?
Mississippi, A Hotbed of Abstinence Education, Now Boasts Highest Teen Pregnancy Rate
The Centers for Disease Control released a new report today that found that Mississippi “now has the nation’s highest teen pregnancy rate, displacing Texas and New Mexico for that lamentable title.” The report found that in 2006, the Mississippi teen pregnancy rate was over 60 percent higher than the national average and increased 13 percent since the year before.
While the new report does not explain why the state’s teen pregnancy rate is increasing, one reason may be the poor quality of its sex ed programs. As the Sexuality Information and Education Center explains, Mississippi focuses heavily on abstinence education and teachers are prohibited from demonstrating how to use contraceptives:
Mississippi schools are not required to teach sexuality education or sexually transmitted disease (STD)/HIV education. If schools choose to teach either or both forms of education, they must stress abstinence-until-marriage, including “the likely negative psychological and physical effects of not abstaining.” […]
If the school board authorizes the teaching of contraception, state law dictates that the failure rates and risks of each contraceptive method must be included and “in no case shall the instruction or program include any demonstration of how condoms or other contraceptives are applied.
A reporter for ABC News’s Jackson, MS affiliate explained, “The Mississippi Department of Human Services says abstinence is the only birth control that is 100 percent effective. And that’s the only message teens need to hear.” Unfortunately, numerous studies show that abstinence-only education is not effective. As one study found:
Teenagers who pledge to remain virgins until marriage are just as likely to have premarital sex as those who do not promise abstinence and are significantly less likely to use condoms and other forms of birth control when they do, according to a study released today.
Further, a review by the House Oversight Committee found that “80% of the abstinence-only curricula…contain false, misleading, or distorted information about reproductive health.”
Pregnant teens in Mississippi face few options. Access to facilities that provide abortions in that state is extremely limited. Indeed, because of an unusually effective anti-choice campaign in the legislature, only a single abortion clinic remains open in the state.

UpdateThe report also found that the teen pregnancy rate is rising fastest in Alaska, where Gov. Sarah Palin (R) is a strong proponent of abstinence-only sex ed.

I think BB has a point here in that the main point on the board is political discussion, and let'
face it, there is SO MUCH going on right now, changes, problems, disasters, and so much debate on what should/could be done, but so many tims the political discussion disintegrates in a finger-pointing, name-calling exercise, spouting religion all over the place. Yeah, our spiritual beliefs are dearly held and we would all strive to be the best we can be, and do whatever we can whatever the ideology is, but sometimes I wonder, since we have a board EXPRESSLY for Faith isuues, where relgious debates/discussions/forums, etc are welcome, why does THIS board have to be turned into RELIGION BOARD PART II, especially if one ideology wants to dominate or ridicule/condemn those who come on here for lively inteligent discussion, debate of issues in Congress and in our lives, and just want their beliefs held separately? CNN is not EWTN or any other Christian network, and there are constant informative, bright, lively, balanced discussions from all over the political spectrum on the credentialed news stations, as well as C-Span, but they are not constantly hiding behind a cross, rosary, bible, star of David, or whatever....can we not strive to do the same and put religious debate on the Faith board?? Just a thought to ponder, MHO, it might work beter, who knows?
is the the starting point or the end point for the middle class?
x
I answered your post point-by-point and
all you can come up with is a lame tit-for-tat? Can you provide some sort of substantive response that would argue against the point I am trying to make here? Of course not.

Please show me what part of my post reflects bigotry or ignorance? I have made a few statements based on my own life experience, rather than the hook-line-and-sinker method of forming my world view. Then the impotence of your suicide bomber reference was buried under concrete evidence of informed, researched and factual data that would suggest an oppressed, occupied, half-starved population does not have the upper hand when it comes to defending themselves against Israel's US-bankrolled arsenal of pain, misery, death and destruction. They are just a tad out-gunned, wouldn't you say?
I answered your post point-by-point and
all you can come up with is a lame tit-for-tat? Can you provide some sort of substantive response that would argue against the point I am trying to make here? Of course not.

Please show me what part of my post reflects bigotry or ignorance? I have made a few statements based on my own life experience, rather than the hook-line-and-sinker method of forming a world view. Then the impotence of your suicide bomber reference was buried under concrete evidence of informed, researched and factual data that would suggest an oppressed, occupied, half-starved population does not exactly have the upper hand when it comes to defending themselves against Israel's US-bankrolled arsenal of pain, misery, death and destruction they employ in order to "secure" themselves.

The Palestinians are just a tad out-gunned, wouldn't you say? This might just account for the lop-sided fatalities/injuries ratios between the Israelis and the Palestinians. In closing, it is worth noting that even with the advantage of all those terrorist toys and tools our tax dollars have bestowed upon them, security and peace of mind just seem to be further and further beyond their reach. Wonder why that is?
If your point is that it was 7 years ago, that's not much of a point is it? sm
Not long ago at all in the scope of things. The point is that the same thing could and probably would happen here. 9-11 happened 7 years ago too....I guess that couldn't happen again, huh?
I get your point, but my main point is -
why should the government be allowed to tell people what they can and can't eat? Everyone says the government is too involved in our business anyway, so if they should stay out of one part of our lives, they should stay out of all parts of our lives!
and your point is??

Your point is??  Bush is the one who waged this immoral illegal wrong war, not all the democrats you have posted quotes on.  It is BUSH, the chimp boy, who waged the war and used every kind of excuse possible, flip flopping back and forth over the reasons.  Now that we know there are no WMD and we have gotten Saddam, what is the excuse for being there and not setting a time plan to leave??  Of course the reason has always been the murderous foreign policy of the US, to have its bloody hands in every country it possibly can.  They are just salivating in DC over the fact that we will have control over the Middle East and OIL.  Bush and his group are war criminals, just as bad as Saddam.


the point is
If these brave soldiers did not have to go to Vietnam, a useless, wrong war (it has been PROVEN, DEBATED AND PROVEN AGAIN AND AGAIN, EVEN BY THOSE WHO WERE IN THE MILITARY), their physical and emotional illnesses never would have happened..and there would have been no people turning against them.  There were thousands upon thousands of protestors telling Nixon, bring our boys home and a few turning against the soldiers.  The war is what scarred and has continued to torture these soldiers..the wrong war of that day just like the wrong war of now, Iraq..And where is the VA to help those of Vietnam?  Bush continues to cut the budget for the VA, even though we will have thousands once again home from a useless, immoral, illegal war..I read an article the other day how the soldiers coming home are divorcing quite a bit..another thing these soldiers have to deal with..physical ailments, mental ailments, not adjusting to society, divorce..these were happy job holding family people before Bush got his blood hands on them.  Thanks Bush.
You see, that's my whole point...
...the truth of this quote is why it's important.  You can't ignore the inherent truth in an observation simply because you don't like the bearer of that message.  I believe that if one truly examined history and discarded labels such as socialist, liberal, yes, even conservative (these labels change with time and are not static philosophies) I believe history would show that the the last part of this quote is right on about what it takes to be successful in uniting a country/party against a supposed "foe."  Some have said hatred is the biggest uniter of a people that there is. 
The point.

 While there were quite a few issues in this article that were noteworthy, to me at least, the main point was that the Bush/war supporters are going to have a chance to participate in the war that they love. Since we broke Iraq we have to fix it and we can't afford to and the military can't do it so, in its infinite wisdom, the administration has come up with a "Peace Corps" type scenario where professionals of all vein VOLUNTEER to go to Iraq and work, for free. This is just too good. How many of those on the conservative board do you think will volunteer to go, or their husbands, sons, relatives? And like he said, if you voted for Bush put your money where your magnet is, smack dab in the middle of the Sunni triangle.


We have and have had for a long time alternatives energy resources. You can destroy the Gulf of Mexico, Alaska and wherever else you want but in a few years we will be right back here. The oil supply is finite. Get used to it. Time to switch gears and explore the alternatives. But again, I can't wait to see who signs up for volunteer duty...next stop is Vietnam (Oh, I mean Iran, no I mean Iraq...).


Well, to each his own, which is exactly my point.
I can not discount your points here without discounting mine. I can't explain why people sign up, but my guess would be that some need money, jobs and opportunities and are praying if they do go to Iraq they will make it back in one piece. There are obviously a lot of people who believe in the cause of this war, I'm just not one. And like I say, some have fallen hook-line-and-sinker into the justification for this war, or believe it is important to free the Iraqis and somehow this is going to protect America.

I say again, to each his own. May God be with them all!
That is not the point! sm
The point is, expect the unexpected.  Don't get all hyper about guns.  I should never have mentioned that here, I am sure.  I was making a point where has, yet again, been twisted!   Good grief!
There is no point to THAT. SM
Everyone knows that paper is and always has been anti-Bush.  I'm sorry, but you guys won't take stuff from NewsMax and FrontPageMag, which are both WAY WAY BIGGER than this little rag. Don't expect me to take this seriously. 
It's my point.nm
x
And your point is
  It's all Bush's fault, by the way.  It's the evil Republican's fault, but especially Bush.  It's ALL his fault.   It's America's fault, too!  IMPEACH AMERICA.  You are my hero.
But, at what point...
do you just toss your arms up in the air and give up on teaching people how to use birth control.  It's not rocket science.  How many decades of teaching do we need?  I think we already have a cornucopia of information available everywhere on how to use birth control.  It's not like it's a taboo subject.  I have to think that the computer saavy youth of today, who can jump through hoops on the internet, if interested, could find out with the click of a button just exactly how to use any given birth control.  We can fund education to the hilt, but stupid careless people will always be stupid careless people.  It's sad.
You got a point there...nm

I know all I need to. I see no point in this.
.
But the point is, we believe what we believe.
In this instance, you feel the war is morally illegal and I don't. 
Yes....that was my point.

I think what you said is exactly the point.
With everything going on, and it keeps getting worse and worse, the leader of the free world shows himself to be crude, have no table manners ... the forever frat boy. In itself giving an uninvited neck rub and talking with one's mouth full are certainly not newsworthy but in the context of  where he was, what he was participating in ( participation questionable) what is happening to our world, our leader, without his spinners and handlers and speech writers was exposed as the uninformed, disinterested, unegaged person that he is and always has been.  He was obviously bored throughout the entire conference, displayed his ignorance of geography (again), displayed his total lack of understanding of the Middle East, a process that has been evolving for 100s of years, way before Israel appeared on the scene. The history of the Middle East appears to bore him. Actually, everything but clearing brush at the ranch seems to bore him. And this guy wants free reign to do anything he likes, no checks, no balances, no congressional approval; its like he thinks this is the old board game War, or little green soldiers he can play with. He is such an embarassment.
to further my point

They are even making Pat Buchanan look like a liberal.  I have never agreed with Buchanan until recently.  This is an excellent example of what I'm talking about.


http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/VIDEO__Matthews_Buchanan_Slam_Neocons_0720.html