that's enlightened of you

Posted By: deenibeeni on 2009-02-08
In Reply to: I don�t read the sites you give as I disagree with you - Nola

and don�t need to look any further.

***I think you are not looking at the sites because you are aware on some level that there will be convincing evidence there that is contrary to your beliefs.

What you say is wait until a guy gets old enough, may not have issues

***correct so far. Wait to see if he actually has phimosis or other reason to perform circumcision and if not, don't do it at all.

and then if he does get it wacked off then and then go through much more pain

****where do you get this? He would have this done under anesthesia, and he would not be an infant, a primitive bundle of nerve endings whose entry into the world is marked by incomprehensible (operative word here) invasion and pain.

than he would certainly remember as a child or even have as a child. Yeh, makes a lot of sense to me.

****It does not make sense to you because you are too busy furiously protecting your beliefs to understand anything that challenges them.

Complete Discussion Below:

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Do you think infant male circumcision is child abuse? - nm
- Do you think that piercing a child's ears is abuse? - Kendra
- As a woman married to a noncirc and - the mother of 3 circs -- here's my 2 cents
  - ABSOLUTELY! They do it WITHOUT anesthetic sm - Mom of 2 uncircs
    - www.nocirc.org - YES
  - I think in the past... - MT
    - 2 of the 3 were covered by insurance - the mother of 3 circs -- here's my 2 cents
- I don't think so. I have 2 boys. They have - me
  - Ouch, at 50-y/o....I'd run away screaming - sm - XXX
- yes, but out of ignorance, not malice - just like the western world is all up in arms abou
  - look up the lower down posts, this is a totally different story..nm - x
- no, not child abuse. what will they think of next? SM - anon
  - what do you mean by 'think of next?' This - brook
- There is a religious not hygenic reason for circumcision. - Golda
  - the bris - sadie
  - Thanks for explaining this. Do you kinow if this holds also true for Muslims? nm - x
    - Mulisms and circumcision - Golda
      - My dh is from Morocco... - MT
        Aren't Muslim babies in theArab countries cicumcised before they leave the hospital? nm - x
        Some are, just like anywhere... - MT
      - Thank you again for explaining, interesting and inspiring..nm - x
- Use some common sense - Give me a break
  - You're funny... - MT
- It's a personal decision... - MT
  - How old is your child? - jc
    - Old enough to know... - MT
      - so I take it he's not sexually mature yet? - he may not be so thankful to you
        Quit assuming... - MT
        no kidding - deenibeeni
- I personally don't know the statistics, but - - NYMT
  - why not cut off the ears at birth to prevent - ear infections?
    - Now, that's ridiculous..... - brook
      - and how can it really be compared... - Kendra
  - not being circumcized promotes penile cancer - looks like your god messed up some things
    - Then why is there a higher incidence in the US... - deenibeeni
      - We get it deeni sweetie, you - sm
        No point going to Washington, BabyCakes - deenibeeni
        Baby Cakes, I LOVE it...thanks honey! - sm
        Its not a little piece of skin - read up on it. It plays a lot of important functions. Google it. - nm
        You will have to explain - deenibeeni
    - exactly, and the transmission of STD, - x
      - I would say - deenibeeni
  - Then why tonsils, appendix?? - Nola
    - Deenibeeni: This you should know as an MT regarding tonsils! - brook
      - You need to read my posts more carefully. - deenibeeni
        but they look GROSSSSS EWWW - i would never saddle my child with
        Scary - you gotta be kidding - nm
        let's just say that's one more reason i'm proud - to be an American LOL
        I'm only posting this - deenibeeni
        she is just expressing her feelings, do NOT BASH HER FOR THAT.. - x
        oh yea don't forget the smegma smell - guess that's why the French stink
        Now I know who I'm dealing with - deenibeeni
        RIGHT, LMAO...nm - brook
        Nonsense... - MT
        an uncircumcised penis - reminds me of a dog penis
        Right, but with the foreskin ON, they stink even more,...nm - brook
        You must pick gross men in general... - MT
        I am PRO CIRCUMCISION, so I am NOT A STINKY GIRL, YOU ARE! nm - x
        You're funny... - MT
        true - n/m
    - They were removed because they became INFECTED - deenibeeni
      - Brook - you are the one misinformed - nm
        circumcision, yes or no, definitely yes! - x
        "a little pain" - deenibeeni
        deeni, are you perhaps a man who is lamenting the loss of his foreskin?...nm - hmmm
        no, I'm not a man - deenibeeni
        Just let it go, I say yes to circumcision...nm - x
        uh, I say no. - deenibeeni
        Oy Vey, your poor family! What a meshuga...nm - nm
        I had it with you! What's wrong with you!..see message - x
        There is a growing body of evidence - deenibeeni
        Duh, duh ??? - x
        Risks - deenibeeni
        You are CRAZY. end of discussion, you are in your own....nm - brook
        She is DENSE, don't bother any longer. Like talking to a wall... - nm
        What does being Jewish have to do with it? - deenibeeni
        oh? - sadie
        Jews against circumcision - deenibeeni
        It means your family has to put up with you and I feel sorry for them... - sm
        I would bet a lot of money - deenibeeni
        Oh sweetheart, give it a rest already..we know how perfect you are.. - sm
        "sweetheart" and "honey" - deenibeeni
        sweetie, you are still DENSE...you obviously can't read... - sm
        Uh, no - deenibeeni
        yes, deenibeeni, take a hike or fly a hike, toodle-loo/ nm - x
- Child abuse, hardly - Nola
  - smegma - deenibeeni
    - dear deenibeeni..you are misinformed - brook
      - I did NOT mention in my above post - deenibeeni
        dear deenibeeni, tell your 'wisdom' to - x
        Why deenibeeni is so stubborn - deenibeeni
        Agree with you deenibeeni - we've been conditioned to believe that its good - nm
      - Wrong again - deenibeeni
      - AAP does not agree with you - deenibeeni
  - Yup, Nola is very right about the problems of not circumcising, I held my baby - Cyndiee
    - Nola is very wrong - deenibeeni
      - If I were wrong, you should have told the boys that - Nola
        Well, obviously. For heaven's sake. - deenibeeni
        I don�t read the sites you give as I disagree with you - Nola
        that's enlightened of you - deenibeeni
        Beliefs, those do not even play into any of this warped thread - Nola
        That's not everyone's experience... - MT
      - Deeni, I respect your opinion, but I held both my sons during circumcision......sm - Cyndiee
        20-year old personal clinical experience - deenibeeni
        What the heck? - Nola
        You may find this enlightening - if you really want to be enlightened - nm
        you have no way of knowing - deenibeeni
        LMAO, hahahaha! - queens
        You need to read this and with an open mind - nm
        I'm saying - deenibeeni
        nor can you be certain that there is any effect at all. - Kendra
        It's only a teeny weeny piece of skin, for heaven's sake, get real! nm - x
        Thousands of nerve endings insignificant? - nm
        this is just rationalizing - deenibeeni
        What atrocity? - x
        For those who think the foreskin is useless - nm

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How enlightened are you? sm
How Enlightened Are You? A Test:
Well. . .

If you can live without caffeine or nicotine;

If you can be cheerful, ignoring aches and pains;

If you can resist complaining;

If you can understand when loved ones are too busy to give you any time;

If you can take criticism and blame without resentment;

If you can ignore friends' limited educations and never correct them;

If you can treat the rich and poor alike;

If you can face the world without lies or deceit;

If you can conquer tension without medical help;

If you can relax without liquor;

If you can sleep without the aid of drugs;

If you can have no prejudice against creed, color, religion, gender, sexual preference, or politics �

� then you have almost reached the same level of spiritual development as your dog.

ANONYMOUS

Enlightened Perspectives...
I've learned.... That the best classroom in the world is at the feet of an elderly person.

I've learned.... That when you're in love, it shows.

I've learned.. That just one person saying to me, 'You've made my day!' makes my day.

I've learned.... That having a child fall asleep in your arms is one of the most peaceful feelings in the world.

I've learned.... That being kind is more important than being right.

I've learned.... That you should never say no to a gift from a child.

I've learned.... That I can always pray for someone when I don't have the strength to help him in some other way.

I've learned.... That no matter how serious your life requires you to be, everyone needs a friend to act goofy with.

I've learned.... That sometimes all a person needs is a hand to hold and a heart to understand.

I've learned.... That simple walks with my father around the block on summer nights when I was a child did wonders for me as an adult.

I've learned.... That life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes.

I've learned.... That we should be glad God doesn't give us everything we ask for.

I've learned.... That money doesn't buy class.

I've learned.... That it's those small daily happenings that make life so spectacular.

I've learned... That under everyone's hard shell is someone who wants to be appreciated and loved.

I've learned.... That to ignore the facts does not change the facts.

I've learned.... That when you plan to get even with someone, you are only letting that person continue to hurt you.

I've learned.... That love, not time, heals all wounds.

I've learned.... That the easiest way for me to grow as a person is to surround myself with people smarter than I am.

I've learned.... That everyone you meet deserves to be greeted with a smile.

I've learned.... That no one is perfect until you fall in love with them.

I've learned... That life is tough, but I'm tougher.

I've learned.... That opportunities are never lost; someone will take the ones you miss.

I've learned.... That when you harbor bitterness, happiness will dock elsewhere.

I've learned.... That I wish I could have told my Mom that I love her one more time before she passed away.

I've learned.... That one should keep his words both soft and tender, because tomorrow he may have to eat them.

I've learned.... That a smile is an inexpensive way to improve your looks..

I've learned.... That when your newly born grandchild holds your little finger in his little fist, that you're hooked for life.

I've learned.... That everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it.

I've learned.... That the less time I have to work with, the more things I get done.

You may find this enlightening - if you really want to be enlightened

Do take the time to read this article fully.

http://www.cirp.org/library/psych/goldman1/