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This sounds familiar...

Posted By: Jade on 2007-09-27
In Reply to: Today's Oprah show is on the healthcare issue - ER MT

I now have BC/BS as of 01/01/07, but I had Cigna before that (who covered everything).  My gynecologist recommended Mirena placement for SEVERE cramping and menorrhagia for me to prevent hysterectomy which would cause complications due to other medical problems, and was not being placed for contraceptive reasons (I have PCOS).  BC/BS said Mirena was not covered and the explanation was that Mirena as a form of birth control was much too expensive and recommended an oral contraceptive.  Again, it was strongly emphasized to BC/BS that I did not require Mirena for contraception, but for menstrual problems.  I have not used any contraceptive method in almost twenty years...but they denied me.  Well, the strangest part of it all is that they denied me the $675 Mirena placement, but BC/BS sent me a letter and I have been approved for the $3800 hysterectomy, which we were trying to avoid because of possible medical complications related to surgery, which could cost even more.  Go figure!!! 





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Sounds familiar
I live in Saratoga Springs NY about a mile from the track. Come August, same thing. We're too far away to rent out our yard. You DON'T want to try to drive anywhere in town at 6:00 p.m. when the track lets out. But it's exciting and you pick up on all the energy of the city for a month! Nice to get the streets back in September, though.
Yep. Sounds familiar.
We have upwards of 2 dozen cases in my state. However, officials in my area of the state are neglecting to test people with symptoms.

People are getting this and spreading it as they go because they are told they have a cold or something and they can go back to work or school.

It is on the verge of insane here where I live. I got sick a week ago and ended up in the ER. Two days later, my DH got it too. Will never know what it was because they are not testing people appropriately.
Sounds familiar with hubs not wanting any more
cats around. I had an older girl and hubs brought home 2 young guys (he thought when the older one died the 2 younger would take her place, not true of course but he thought that). The older girl died and before long I spoke with him about another kitty. I have loads of room, work is ideal for pets around, he travels so they are loads of company for me but he said absolutely not. Ok, my housekeeper called me 1 day, said kitty up a tree, she would be over when she got it down and I asked her to bring with her as she could not keep. Instant love, not only with me but hubs. I told him the cat had shown up at my house meowing and running from the dog. Well, that was true- she had shown up at the door and had been running from the dog, just not at my home. Gina, my kitty, is now his best friend, follows him around the home, comes for petting and stays in whichever room he is in. It is kitty love for him now.
Just a little ego there. It's a guy. She probably just wanted to sit with someone familiar.
x
Not familiar with medication, but is there some way SM
you can cut it in half or quarters and start out taking a tiny amount, then gradually start taking the entire pill? If you are able to do that, your body will get used to it and you will soon be able to consume entire amount.

Or ask doctor is there is something else to try. Good luck to you.
I'm not familiar with the items you used
but I do definitely try to find natural cures if possible. I flatly refuse to take prescription or OTC cough medications. I make my own, because it's so much better for me, and it doesn't contain all those chemicals that wreak havoc on my body. I have and continue to use herbs for various things. I think it's important to know about alternative cures. There may come a day (and it's here for a lot of people) when we won't be able to get prescription meds, or be able to afford them, and we'll need to know how to take care of ourselves for a lot of things.
Anyone familiar with Snellville, GA? SM

Friend of mine is moving there to be with boyfriend.  She said  it's a nice quiet town, but another friend just told me there is a gang problem there.  All I know is, it's a small town.  Can anyone tell me about this town?  Now I'm concerned.  The other friend lives in Marietta, GA. 


Thanks. 


PS


I want to live in Savannah, but that's another story. 


 


Anyone familiar with scrapbooking software

I love to make scrapbooks.  I am currently working on one a thank you gift to the hostess who allowed us to stay with them on our vacation this past summer.  They are friends of ours and actually took their vacation to vacation with us.  We had a great time in Colorado! 


I'm wondering if anyone has used any of the scrapbook softwares that are out.  I think I might try to do it this way to conserve some time.  Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated.


RUTIN, not familiar with this. Is this a pill? NM
NM
Not familiar with carbon credits - what is that?
Also to change the topic a bit since you mentioned it, what about life on other planets - believer or not? If you believe, do you think we have been visited?
I agree, maybe seeing a familiar name as a donor will encourage others. NM
x
Well, have to get the word out. How many of you are familiar with Belk Dept. Stores? sm

Well, they bought out our local Parisian Dept. store, promised to come in to our town, buy the building (in our local mall), and then backed out at the last minute. We live in a town of over 300,000.  Anyways, so there is no longer any store there in the mall. They are just like Macy's. etc.


They have THE POOREST CUSTOMER SERVICE CENTER (via phone) I've ever encountered. They don't even bill on a 30-day billing cycle, so my payment was due TODAY when I always thought it was the 6th of every month (I last made a payment Oct. 6 and thought I'd pay my bill a few days early) only to find out that the bill would be considered late if not paid by 5 p.m. EST. If I paid it on line like I always do, you MUST make the payment date at least 2 days later than today's date (makes no sense) so next month I would be LATE and charged 35.00. So I call to make a payment. This rude lady tells me: Go into a store and make a payment.  I tell her, "well, we don't have a store within 200+ miles of my home since you guys never did come here,"  Then she says, "Well, you can pay by phone today by 5 but it will cost you an extra 15.00." So, I'm livid. She gets her supe on the phone who is rude as h*** and tells me that she wasn't the one who decided to pay late! OMG!


So, I call husband very upset. To make a long story short, I finally paid it after 3 LONG PHONE CALLS to these fools (all 3 of them were extremely rude).  One guy put me on hold for 15 minutes (I counted!!) after I asked to speak to his supervisor and he gets back on the phone (minus his supervisor) after being put on hold and then I finally pay part of my bill.


Thank GOD Belk isn't around here.    Sounds like a godsend. 


PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE if you work hard, don't shop there! They SUCK** and I will NEVER shop there!!


I have been living that life for the last 2 years. Very familiar story. SM

I have two kids at home and a baby on the way.  My husband keeps gettign laid of jobs due to slow business  Just got word that after Christmas he will be laid off again.  As it is, we can barely afford to feed the family... so dont know what we will do come January when we lose his income.


There are no jobs for him to apply to.  We do not qualify for unemployment for some reason....


And its not like we are lazy or bad people.  All we do is work.  I work 3 different jobs for 3 different MT companies.  I wake up 2 hours before the kids go to school, work while they are in school, and even have to make up soem time at nigth when everyone is sleeping.  That in addition to my husband's job...  we can barely, and I mean barely make it...


Then I spend the rest of my free time cleaning the house, doing dishes, laundry, errands, bills, homework with the kids.  Im pregnant and should be getting more rest.  HA!!  What a joke.


And I know all about the bank fees.  We pay probably 100-200 a month in fees becuase when you live paycheck to paycheck it is just something that happens..  Sorry folks...  Its not about being good a balancing your checkbook... not in these times.  We have to play russian roulette with the monies sometimes.


My husband and myself do not have insurnace.  I do now through Medicade because I am pregnant.  We were hoping to drop the Medicaid when my husband's insurance kicked in... but he got laid off before that happened.  My kids have CHIP, so that is good...  But I am down to my last pair of contacts and I havent taken them out in 2 months because I do not have the extra 100 dollars to make an appt and then 50 for the contacts.


The school hits us up for $$$ every week for this, that, and the other thing... which all that does is take food off our plates.  If one of my kids loses a shoe or needs a winter jacket, etc.... it puts us out.


Not to mention on top of all of that...  My brother-in-law was in a car accident in a car he bought from my husband, but never took the time to put it in his name, and now it is back on us.  We have 30 days to come up with 4000 dollars or my they take my husband's license away.  Sounds crazy huh?  Lawyers say they cannot do that... but they say they can...(the insurance company), but who has money to pay the lawyer for the help??  Not us.


I could go on and on and on and on and on and on.. LIke how it is Christmas, which is hard enough, but on Dec 31st it is my daughter's b-day and then just 3 weeks later it is my other daughter's birthday...  How I am going to give them a nice birthday is beyond me...


Anyway, you are not alone!!!!!  Of course I have never thought about suicide.  That is not an option for me and I cant imagine ever would be... 


If you think that way, you need some medication and therapy real quick!!!!!!  Other than that, what is the worst that can happen?  There has got to be help somewhere... food stamps???  I am going to look into them myself...  I might have to skip on paying rent this month...  and hope the landlord understands... 


Come January 20th, I hope some good things start to happen and we can be on the road to a brighter future... but until then... we have to ride it out somehow.  How, I dont know.  I just take every day at a time... 


And this morning, I cried during my first hour of typing... Typing through the tears.. so you are not alone there either.


Too many of these stories becoming familiar, in addition to inforcing the death penalty....sm
I have to ask myself why so much of society these days is behaving in this way, uncontrollable, ugly rage...is it the decay of family units, absentee fathers, is it the abundance of drugs, violence in media....I am old enough to remember a time when these atrocities seemed to be the RARE horror stories, why the abundance now? No God in their worlds?????
You may be, from the sounds of your posts, sounds like an *illegal*
and that in itself is a crime. Nobody else would take 65.00 for an entire day slaving/laundry, heavy cleaning, etc. LOL. Nah, I don't think so. I'm just saying, what it sounds like to me. : )
He sounds wonderful...sounds like you two have a relationship (sm)
based on love and nothing superficial at all. I'm glad you appreciate him and are so grateful for him. Best wishes & continued happiness to you both :-)
Sounds like you are doing everything right...

Hang in there.  It sounds to like you are doing everything right.  I totally agree that kids are under too much pressure these days and that they certainly need to be given more time to just be kids.  Being a single mom I try make sure that my children grow up to be responsible adults with good morals and values, but I also make sure that they have their space so they have a chance to make their own choices (when possible) and see the consequences of those choices.  Being a parent is certainly not easy and doing it in today's society is stressful to say the least. 


As for your neighbor, I think she could take some lessons from you.  Good luck and keep your chin up!!! 


Sounds to me like . . .
she has the attention she wanted, it's almost like you took her bait. She sent you nasty Emails and now you are begging her to forgive you. You know the the saying "Don't cast pearls before swine". Sounds like she can more easily respond to the negative rather than the positive. Anyway, what would you do if she forgave you? Be her friend again? Until she changes her heart, you're better off, keep your distance. She sees your goodness as weakness. It's probably fun for her to make you uncomfortable. Maybe deep down she is jealous of you. Don't hate her, be sad for her. Don't fall into her games.
sounds like a CC I used to have, which did--sm
pretty much the same thing. They said it was their *annual fee* and, like you, I just paid it to keep the peace and close the account. Personally I think it is a scam just to get a few more dollars out of you, but how do you prove it and who do you complain to??? I don't have credit cards any longer either. Learned my lesson too. what a rip!
Sounds like (sm)
your FIL has two abled bodies to care for him already.  Why should you go back?  It would probably be nice if you checked in once in a while and took your 2-year-old to visit, but moving back sounds like it would put a strain on things.  Your husband may be feeling guilty and feels the need to "help".  Explain to him that helping is taking some groceries once in a while or offering to pick-up meds, etc.  You, your husband, and child would be probably a breath of fresh air once in a while if you were to just visit on occasion.  Moving back seems a little like overkill, but it is tough because when it is family you want to give it your all!  Also, there is one in every family that "freeloads".  Let them figure it out for now.  Hope your FIL is feeling better soon and hope you can find your way to be helpful without having to sacrifice your new home....  Take care and good luck... 
sounds mean . . .sm
but when my daughter and husband were pulling that on me I told my daughter it was not safe that she could die very easily in the front seat or get hurt very badly. She quit asking, daddy quit doing it. Now she is 12-1/2 and no problem there, she is 5Ƌ" and weighs about 130 pounds. But I used to get SO FRUSTRATED!!! Daddy's little girl . . . .
Don't know that one, but it sounds sm
like a good time.  if you are in for an evening away from the parks. I have friends who own Sleuth's dinner theater.  Three theaters, dinner included, plus one is only for kids, I think.  You enjoy a great dinner, and a murder mystery play, where you take part in solving the mystery.  It is right on Universal Drive and I think the website is sleuths.com
sounds like your going to anyway.
but i would urge you to proceed with caution, go very very slowly. When it seems too perfect, too good to be true, it may be wrong. One of my first thoughts is that if he is the spiritual man you think, ie, Christian, he might not have had 2 divorces -- not always the case, but often times. you both need to know what your own faults are and be careful to not make the same mistakes. More than anything (outside of knowing each other very well, nonintimately) is have real committment on both sides, the determination to stay with the marriage. i married a man with 2 divorces too -- 25 yr later we're still married. But it was sheer determination to make it work on my part, lots of prayer and such. I did endure what one should not have to, to get to this point. Once i was into it, i certainly understood how come he had been divorced twice. Wishing you the best.
Sounds like now as of this a.m.

Apparently the so-called lawyer owns a business called Hot Lips Smoochy or something like that and has never tried any cases at all.  He is apparently the executor of her estate.  Now isn't that convenient?  He tells the photographer Daddy that she lost the baby, but she winds up having a baby anyway 9 months later.  The photographer breaks it off with her because she is drinking while pregnant.  Oh my, the gossip.  She looks like she's all drugged-up on any interviews I've seen, and I saw one last night from 3 days before her death.  She is wearing dark glasses for the first part (inside), and they go outside, and she takes the glasses off.  Makes no sense.  I don't know, but what does Granny want with the baby now?  That poor baby!  So many Daddies??????  I have never seen men trying to prove they ARE the father in all of my life?  Twists and turns this story has, which I'm sure has the producers in Hollywood salivating.  There will be books and there will be moves.  Life happens, I guess. 


It sounds to me like you are not even willing --sm
to compromise on this and want everything YOUR way. What arrangement does HE want? Do you even know? You never said what HE would like. It is just my opinion, but it does not sound like you are even ready to get married, if you cannot find a way to compromise on even this small detail. Good luck to you.
Sounds to me like you were just being
very thoughtful, and I bet he appreciates you as much as you seem to appreciate him. What a wonderful thing!
She sounds like quite a gal . . .
especially the part about being a practicing Buddhist. She probably marched to the beat of a different drummer. The doctors might have saved her but who knows what quality of life she might have. My mom, dad, aunts all were healthy until their 80s. They end up in a nursing home. My aunt is 90, she's really been dying for a year, they keep on prolonging it. I think death at some point may be a blessing. You're going through a mourning process. Your tears are for you, you'll miss her, she'll be in a better place. You are going to have to brace up and take comfort in your faith.
Actually should be It sounds.....nm
nm
sounds like my SIL
We had a chow years ago. We raised him from a pup and he was very protective of all of us but especially the kids. ANY kids for that matter.

The kids in the yard, someone comes up the driveway, he was there. Would not let anyone get between him and those kids. Didn't matter if they were our kids or their friends. He never bit anyone but he wasn't going to let anyone take "his" kids either.

Never did that to the parents of the kids either, just total strangers that he didn't know. For Chow's, he had an exceptional personality and never saw him so much as growl at anyone. He would bark but would back away as he was barking.

My SIL's chow is a rescue so who knows how he was raised.
She just sounds like someone who has --sm
to pick and pick until she starts an arguement. Try to ignore her. If you don't give her what she wants, she will go away. just my opinion.
sounds like it to me . . .
I've seen two physicians recently, one who specializes in anxiety, and they think the crude policy under my current company of having to "make up" any time I take off is burning me out, promotes physical and mental self-neglect and is fueling an anxiety disorder. "That's sick," is actually what one said, and put me on a mild anxiolytic temporarily and told me to find a way out. The company says "everyone else does it" like I'm some kind of freak or bad MT, but in talking to other MTs there I'm finding the majority saying no they're not or they are frying themselves out doing it and have also complained about it. Having to always "make up" a day off is not a day off and does not promote rest. I'm having to learn to take the doctors' advice I'm typing for, letting go and taking care of myself. :-) The consequences of not doing so are much more dire. It kills me they have an EAP program. Seems to me investing in just letting people have a life would be more efficient. Recently bought out, the new company acted like it was a plus to keep this crappy policy. Yeah, right.

I'm really, really close to singing "Take this job and shove it . . . " Shame, because it's an otherwise decent company, um, unless you want a life.

Watching all my family enjoy this weekend as a 3-day weekend while I type. Sometimes I wake up and cry before starting work because I feel like I can't get a break from this job without consequences.

WORDS OF WISDOM: When applying for an MT job, ASK CAREFULLY about the EXACT way "time off" is calculated and quiz their MTs, not the administrative people who have never done MT. What looks good on paper . . .
Sounds like they don’t have a pot to
pi..s… in. These sound like grown folks and I do not consider myself a bank, therefore do not loan money out even to my grown KIDS. Only could a child move in with me if they were sick and unable to take care of their own self. Sounds like they have no responsibility about financial business. Sorry they would just have to do things on their own. Loaning money (or giving it away, whatever the case is) only makes relationships strained. I do not sign as collateral for anyone, do not take stray folks in, do not run a banking business.
sounds
That sounds very pretty. You can also do just a border around the top of the wall with the sponge paint effect. That way it keeps it from being too much green!
Sounds to me like
although getting paid, maybe not the right 1 to be trying to watch the kids. I am a grandmother myself. This sounds like she is irritated by their actions and maybe they did kick her more than you OR maybe with her older legs it just hurts her more. My legs now are a lot different from when I had children as far as the aches and pains, even bruises and sometimes cuts just show up without your knowing where they exactly came from. Yes, she is offended they said something about her legs (even though on the 7 year old I would know probably too young to really understand what the veins were) but she is getting back at them now and trying to get her point across - even if they arent understanding she is trying to make them understand. I don’t see this as a really workable situation. It has been 2 weeks and already everyone at everyone else. Not a good situation. Pretty soon grandmom and kids just doing tit for TAT at each other. Maybe a good sit down and talk it over or else grandmom goes back home and you get someone who is a little younger and able to corral the kids better?
Sounds like you are doing everything right to me - sm
I lived at home for years as it was too expensive to get your own place where my parents were unless you had a really, really good income, which I did not have unfortunately. I did not have a firm curfew once I went to college but it was understood they prefered I be home by 1 a.m. which I ususally abided by, if I knew I was going to be out later I told them, or if I was not coming home at all, I told them. They always knew who I was out with too, and the general plan for the evening. I never really resented it, yeah it was a drag sometimes but at least they cared enough to ask and try and keep me out of trouble (they don't know half of the stupid stuff I did do and never got in trouble for; i.e. going out with stranger met in a parking lot, that sort of stuff, nothing criminal). One thing that will stop her from staying out really late is make her get a summer job, that is one thing that kept me from staying out all hours, sleep was necessary to get up at 6:45 and be at work at 8:00 (til 5pm). My parents paid my tuition but I paid for all the supplies, books, etc., and I also worked 2 jobs at school. Sounds like she needs something to keep her busy and grow up some. If she does not shape up, pull the car privileges unless it is to go to work, and have her pay her own car insurance and cell phone, that may wise her up to life.
Sounds like when I got...sm

a Christmas card from a friend AFTER Christmas.  I still don't know what was up with that. 


BTW~ My friends threw me a surprise birthday brunch today for my 40th birthday and I have already started writing my thank you notes!


Sounds like her first kid and she has never
been around others to me.
Wow - that sounds so much like him (sm)
He left me alone after my c-section, he left me alone when I got devastating medical news, etc. Once I had a car accident a mile away and he would not come and help me after I called him all shaken up. When I mention these things he just accuses me of bringing up the past. But they are real examples of how I have been treated for years.
Sounds like me and my cat - (sm)
I went through something similar as you are going through with yours.  I kept saying I'd know when it was time and really watching to make sure I wasn't being selfish.  She went on about her business, albeit different from before, just made herself new routines, and did what she was able.  When she couldn't jump on my lap anymore, I picked her up, and things like that.  If she didn't like one can of food, I'd open another.  This went on for months.  I feel like I had the opportunity to let her have a good life, and show her how much I loved her, right up until the end - she decided when it was time.  I know what you are feeling.  Just love her and enjoy the time you have.
Thanks - really sounds like just what I need (nm)
x
Sounds to me like you have

approval addiction.  I have it as well and know how you feel.  If you don't do everything perfect for everybody you feel guilty.  I suggest either reading or buying the audio of the book Approval Addiction by Joyce Meyers.  It is wonderful!!


 


Wow - that sounds like one of
those high-energy dogs. Thank goodness for me that Cedric is pretty laid back, especially since we think he's young.
Sure...why not...sounds
really delicious with the rice...How much rice are you going to add? Don't want it to be too dry as the rice soaks up liquid.
It sounds like they are like
they said...BORED....so if that is all it is...maybe you can coax them into going...if they spend the night there once or twice a year, they get to pick some sort of game or craft to bring with to make with Grandma or maybe they could bring a friend along...something to break up the boredom.
Boy sounds just like my MIL except we have never - sm
allowed the kids to stay over there unless one of us is there too. Maybe if you do want to let them, stay too, you might hate (as I do but I am trying to make my in-laws happy) but the kids will be happier. I would not force them to go though. If my in-laws lived closer there would be issues but they live ~100 miles away so that makes it easier though lately they have been very creative in their arguments/requests for having the kids stay over. Maybe if they didn't see our kids as trophys I'd feel differently but they also want to take them around and show them off, and as they have no common sense we don't allow it, period. Hate to see what they will be like when their brains get mushy! They are 73 and 77 now and still pretty sharp, forgetful of course but certainly have most of their wits (just no sense). We are going there for Thanksgiving, my DH might not even go as he caught my cold and I am on day 11 with it and it is still hanging on with a vengence, so I am less than thrilled to be going especially if by myself (and the kids of course). Very boring there, we will basically sit around all day and watch TV for 8 hours (getting there at 11 and leaving about 7); kids might go to a playground nearby with their uncle but as it is supposed to rain here I doubt they will get to do that. So we will be couped up all day in their dark, cold house (they have 2 sets of curtains on every window). The kids love to see their grandparents but there is just nothing for them to do there, but they do try and usually buy them some sort of crafty thing for them to do, but that only last so long. We may take our Wii as my DH wants to show it to his dad, so that may bring some excitement to the day for a change....guess I will find out on Thursday. -----so on that note, again if you want to make you MIL happy tell the kids 2 x a year you stay 1 night and you go too or your DH (its his mom) so they feel a bit better and maybe you can act as a go-between and get MIL to be a bit less bossy and maybe start asking the kids, hey do you want to help me make cookies/cake, or go for a walk, or go shopping? They are old enough to express an opinion on what they might like to do. Have fun, I know I will (LOL).
Again, boy sounds just like my MIL -- once we -sm
were all driving out to dinner together and my daughter about a year or so old was just fussing and crying (normally very good in the car), my FIL told me to stop the car, have my DH drive and for me to take her out of her car seat and hold her the rest of the way home. I had a cow and told him off in the car, and my DH backed me up. I told him I was not going to endanger the safety of my child so he didn't have to hear a little crying, etc. This was one of many safety issues they freaked me out on. Needless to say I think that was the last time we ever rode in a car with them. They forget they raised their kids without car seats, etc. Things I think are a lot better and safer for today's kids, and what we think is normal and safe they think is excessive and not necessary.
sounds like
me to. Let me know what you find out.
Sounds like here
It's just me and my brother this year, so we're vegging out and watching movies - after eating our turkey dinner ordered out because neither one of us can cook.

I think it's cute that you mentioned your cats. Mine love the Christmas tree. They don't really bother it that much, but at night they lay in front of it and stare at the lights. It is absolutely the most adorable thing! I didn't want to take my tree down last year because I loved watching them gaze at the tree!
Actually, it sounds more like
nm
Sounds like my kid about 10 yrs ago...
I tried about all of what's listed so far (water, swats, returning the tantrum favor). Some worked sometimes, but not others. At one point, she turned her back to me, hiked up her hip, looked over her shoulder, and said, "Jus pank my bottom den Mommy." (She was 2.) Finally did figure out that with her, when the feet started a little "rocking" type motion, she was getting ready to blow. If I did something (anything) to shock her, it would stop. Didn't matter what it was - in church would sometimes just gently but firmly yank a strand of hair (like it got caught in the chair rungs - definitely not hard enough to really cause pain). Even blowing in her face sometimes would head it off. If I didn't get it stopped before it began, it didn't stop. She could be set off by anything or nothing. If I had a penny for everytime she said she hated me, I'd be rich. She even composed her own little "I hate Mommy" song at one point. She finally got herself under control and down to normal-type tantrums by around 5. Now, at 13, her teachers, etc all tell me how wonderfully behaved she is, etc, and while we still have our moments, she and I are extremely close, and so far (knock on wood), we've had nothing more than normal on the teenagers can be monsters stuff. Don't know if she just grew out of it or if it was something I did, but it did go away, so there is hope.
Sounds like she needs to have her
thyroid med dose decreased.

I use NutraCal (NutraStat is the same) when I have a sick cat or dog. You can usually find this at a feed store or a even a pet supply store. It comes in a tube.