Home     Contact Us    
Main Board Job Seeker's Board Job Wanted Board Resume Bank Company Board Word Help Medquist New MTs Classifieds Offshore Concerns VR/Speech Recognition Tech Help Coding/Medical Billing
Gab Board Politics Comedy Stop Health Issues
ADVERTISEMENT




Serving Over 20,000 US Medical Transcriptionists

Yes, thanks for a thoughtful and constructive comment. SM

Posted By: MsIndigo on 2007-11-14
In Reply to: wonderful answer - sa

Much too rare on this board. I'm shocked by how many people still don't use Expanders and use them very extensively. People need to understand and accept that today's much higher standard of production is set by those who do.


Complete Discussion Below: marks the location of current message within thread

The messages you are viewing are archived/old.
To view latest messages and participate in discussions, select the boards given in left menu


Other related messages found in our database

You are very thoughtful

Thank you for the response, I really appreciate you taking the time to write me and I took your advice to heart.  I'm glad I posted this, i'm not a very open person and so this is kind of all I have right now.  I've already taken the time to write an email to my mom, and through the advice of others, told her basically i'm uncomfortable going around there, but I love her and for her to remember that, and I just need space right now.  She wrote back that whenever i'm ready to talk, please write.  So the door is open.  Its a start.


I'm also going to write another person in my family, who will understand more than anything, and then help me out with the actual bringing everything to light.  My stepfather is in therapy for something else, maybe if he's confronted by this he'll get help for this too, even though he's 70, its never too late.  The only thing, he more  than likely will deny it and say I blew things out of proportion, or my mom will.  Thats my worst fear, or to have my mom fall deeper into her depression.  But even I have questioned this...and its undeniable to me that something is wrong. 


This has taken so long to get to this point, I wish I were like some of you and to just confront and nip it in the bud, but like I said, its my nature to want to keep things as peaceful as possible and hopefully it will get ironed out on its own.  Thats awful, I know.  And I want to say again, in no way am I comparing myself to sexually abused children, but this is something that has been eating away at me for awhile, its been a hurtful burden because my mom and I are kind of all each other has, even though we do not relate well, we are always there, and I just do not want to lose that, or have her hurt and humiliated more than she has to be. 


Thanks again everyone..well  most of you, for your responses.  They have really helped me.


Thank you for your thoughtful reply
I am going to keep looking elsewhere. The company I work for is very large, and the things I mentioned seem to be a problem in pretty much any region you are talking about from what I have heard from other people who work here in this company. I will keep hoping to come across a company that was like this company USED to be years ago before it got too big for its britches and greed took over. Thank you again for your help.
I think it is thoughtful of you and you should not be too concerned if (sm)
someone thought it "weird" as gifts are given from the heart and yours seems to be overflowing!!!  It is so nice to see someone actually more worried about giving this year than receiving!!  I work from home as well for a small MTSO and I will follow in your footsteps!!!
Very thoughtful post.
xx
very thoughtful and caring of you to do this.
nm
You're very thoughtful
The girls are lucky to have you. Frankly, if they had boyfriends a year ago and now they are both suddenly into women, I have to agree with your husband that it is exploration and most likely will pass.

I would worry about anyone putting their place of employment on their blog. There are a lot of idiots in the world and a lot of hate-filled sociopaths would might target a person because of where they work - like an abortion clinic, the post office, a certain religious organization, etc.

Gay men and women particularly have to be circumspect - there are people out there who will do them harm just for being gay. I realize your girls are young and full of life and in love, but they need to temper their enthusiasm with some caution. Instead of putting the name of the company, put the field - such as healthcare, marketing, education, etc.

Now THAT's a doc I wouldn't mind seeing! How thoughtful! nm


You guys sound more thoughtful than most here...
Of course most coding will be point-and-click to computer, but don't you think the EMR will allow a broader range of medical record work to be done remotely?
Constructive
No one likes being corrected, even in a nice way, especially if doing the same thing the same way for years. Us QAs out here are just like you, employed by a company, we are not the almighty rulers of the world. We are employed to do a job which is not easy and many feelings get hurt along the way. Many MTs just want to be left alone to do their work even if it is incorrect. Thats not an option these days, the work must be correct and quality is mandatory, not an option.
Can anyone please tell me what constructive
I have been following the discussion below about impolite QA and some of you have mentioned receiving constructive feedback from QA and/or mentors. Would someone please tell me what this constructive feedback looks like? Where I work they just fill in the blanks, but I never receive any comments. I often ask questions but receive no response. What am I missing? I hope for some sort of feedback from the QA people and/or my manager but it never happens. Maybe I have been spared the rudeness that some of you experience because they never comment. Which companies offer feedback, tips, constructive criticism? What does the feedback/mentoring look like? Thank you for your responses and help.
If you have nothing constructive to say, then
xx
The answers have been constructive. sm

What I don't understand is why you think they're not. People are stating the truth--the employer calls the shots, not the employee. Just because the truth isn't as comfortably "warm and fuzzy" as you want it to be, doesn't make it less true. It seems that this point is missed very frequently on this board and to try to convince this person that it is the employee who decides the working terms is both cruel and non-constructive. (There are so many cliches that I could use right now I'm not even going to start.)


There have been several posters who lament the loss of jobs to overseas competition but instead of laying blame at the feet of workers who want to call the shots, they instead try to blame the people who are hungry for jobs and are willing to work at getting and keeping jobs that are "too demanding", "too demaning", "not family-friendly" for US workers. Employers are also to blame when their biggest concern is the bottom line and not upholding the society that allowed them to become employers in the first place.


A very good book to read for more on this subject is The World Is Flat by Thomas Friedman. It is a long book but if you're really interested in understanding what is going on in the world today and being prepared for the reality of tomorrow, it's worth the read. Of course, it also requires a mind willing to see the problems that both workers and employers have created.


Constructive feedback is ...

providing commentary and suggestions on improving the MT's work process (i.e. 'hearing' ESL's better or maybe a more refined search process, etc.) in a professionally worded fashion.  Most times when an MT leaves a minefield of blanks in a report it's because he/she because of their lack of experience wasn't able to 'hear' what the dictator was saying. 


A true QA person of excellence can recall their own journey on the road of transcription, remember that type of frustration and lack of experience, and translate solutions and suggestions to the MT in a manner that the MT can draw upon that experience and going forward incorporate the QA's suggestions into their work process, correcting any deficiencies they may have in putting out a quality document without a lot of blanks.  


In the case of where you work, sometimes constructive feedback is as simple as just filling in the blanks.  You can use the document that's been returned to you as a sample for training your ear to better hear what that particular dictator is saying when you get him/her again.  In this way, you continue to improve and are more autonomous in the work that you do. 


I hope this helps. 


EXACTLY! Constructive input is always welcome;
nm
First of all, you did not come here looking for constructive advice. SM

You came here to whine and moan about QA and you wanted people to pat you on your head and said "poor little MT, you were right."  When you didn't get that, you started throwing a tantrum and telling everyone what big 'ol meanies they are.


By your own admission, you have been an MT for three years.  You are in no way qualified to tell QA or the QA supervisor that you like or dislike changes made, account specs, or anything of the sort.  Your job is to type according to the account specs and according to whatever other BOS rules QA imposes.  Like it or not, this is the job!  MTs are called upon to be flexible.  Personally, I abhor the BOS, but I like money, I need money to live and feed my kids, so if my employer says do by the BOS book, then that's what I'm gonna do.


I going to go out on a limb here and guess that since you said some of the mistakes you made were "stupid mistakes" you shouldn't have made, then you probably look inexperienced to QA and aren't going to be taken seriously when you complain.  When you've become a seasoned MT who makes very few mistakes and then want to complain, you might be taken a bit more seriously.


I have 20 years under my belt.  My last QA score (which happened to be yesterday) was 99.5% and that is my consistent score.  If one day I get a QA score say below 98%, then I may question it diplomatically.  I probably have more experience than the QA person proofing my work, but being condescending is not the way to go.  Here you are 3 years experience and you are condescending and go above your QA's head to her boss.  Good thing you're starting a new job, sounds like you're going to need it.


That's my 2 cents.


Constructive remarks in message
I have a couple of constructive things to say.  First take it to a blog where you can whine to someone who cares.  Where you can all wallow in your self-pity while your bills add up and your kids starve and nothing changes the situation.  Next, get another job.  Stay at MQ if you must, but get another job, be it MT or whatever, that will pay your bills while you whine. Third, get some ambition and help yourselves.  Whining to each other will accomplish nothing. Why would I be MQ management when I am offering suggestions to help your plight.  I am sure MQ management is very happy with the way things are.  They have you whiners that are still there for them to scrape their feet on and not doing a thing about your situation.
LOL. I told you, it's a pet peeve. It was constructive
Personally, I don't like to have errors in any of my writing, personal MB or not, and I would rather have someone tell me on a MB than make a fool of myself elsewhere. To each his/her own.

FWIW, I was not proofreading, just reading. After seeing it the incorrect way umpteen times, I felt compelled to mention it.
Take constructive criticism and LEARN...
I worked for this company and the only reason I quit was I needed a job where i worked 4 hours and that was it.  I absolutely LOVED my job with them.  They were encouraging yet at the same time made me aware of what I needed to correct, as quality is of utmost importance in medical dictation.  I made notes and reviewed the corrections sent back to me in order to undo my errors.  The Editor (Rose) taught me so much by giving me these corrections cause it has helped me become a better MT.  It is so important in this field to be accurate and have good grammar and spelling skills.  Maybe this field isnt for you, but definitely even look into getting perhaps a used grammar/english textbook or the AMMT Book of Style to review, as that might be less expensive than going back to school.  I have talked to other MTs who have been in this field for 35 years and said they STILL learn something new every single day.  Keep an open mind on this job and learn all you can.  In the long run you will be a better MT for it.
Yeah...let's not try to do anything constructive because everybody is contributing to the problem
I think most of us hear this all the time...let somebody else clean up the mess.
THAT is when constructive feedback helps, not being a jerk about it.
QA should remember how it felt to be MT and struggling to get it right.
I have found no matter how constructive my feedback is... SM

most MTs either don't read it or read and immediately send it to the recycle bin literally and figuratively.  So when I send feedback, it is basically a list of their errors, my corrections, and quoting chapter and verse from the BOS if necessary. 


Quite frankly, I'm tired of hearing MTs gripe.  I used to try to educate and mentor MTs, but it is a thankless job.  Someone below said that QA people try to insinuate their egos, but in my experience it is the MTs ego that is getting in the way.  So many MTs think they are "excellent MTs" and so many of them are not.  At one point, I decided to keep a running log of unacceptable errors that even the most remedial MT should not be making and start posting it here because I'm so sick of MTs posting that QA is unreasonable or big meanies.


So here is a very unacceptable mistake I've seen this morning and I've only been on the clock for an hour...


"pressure ulcer on the left heal"


Of course, when I sent feedback to this MT, she emailed me saying "ha ha, oh it's just a typo."  Problem was she did it repeatedly throughout the entire report -- not just once but every instance the dictator talked about the left heel ulcer, she typed "left heal ulcer."


Now, MTs, tell me that I'm not supposed to roll my eyes and be a little irritated that I had to spend fifteen minutes listening to her entire report because such a basic error sends up warning flags, when I should have just had to fill in her blanks.



Thank you, that is certainly constructive. How about 17 years, you want me to just change to accomm
nm
Would it kill you people to give constructive advice instead of insults and insensitivity?!?
I understand your frustration. I think you just need to sit down and have a talk with your employer. Find out exactly what they want your status to be. As an employee, yes they do have the right to dictate your hours, where you work, etc., but they do not have the right to jerk you around. If they want you to work at home, then they need to provide for that, not you! Anyone who says otherwise is wrong! In any industry, if a company wants you to commute, they pay for gas/mileage. If they want you to have a cell phone/pager, they either pay for it, or they provide an allowance for it. If they want you to work at home, they provide equipment. It sounds to me like they want way too much and are giving very little. Just because a person/company is the employer, it does not give them the right to treat people like dirt, sending them on wild goose chases, interfering with their life, schedule, expenses, etc. I am sorry you have received such critical and insensitive comments. I hope this works out for you. Blessings!
She didn't say she put "no-no" in her feedback and used baby talk in her constructive criti
I wish she were on my QA team. She sounds wonderful!
QA comment
I just wanted to say a few things from the world of QA. There are some MTs who get dictators the likes of which I just cannot even describe as far as ESLs. Oh my. My heart just bleeds for you all - I mean it.  I don't know how you do it, the dictators are that awful. But most of you MTs who get these language-murdering dictators struggle and persevere thru usually endless reports.  It IS noticed, though you might think its not.  Not that peon QA people can do anything for you, but I do notice and applaud you. And I DO mention names of these MTs to account managers on a regular basis, praising their effort on these impossible dictations. Don't know if it helps, but I like to believe it does!  On the flip side, there are other MTs who are just a disgrace to our profession - they're not learning or new (we can tell). They are simply lazy and sloppy, making the most horrendous careless STUPID mistakes one can even imagine.  Sometimes my mouth just hits my desk in horror.  And I just shake my head and wade in and fix the entire report myself - that's what I'm there for, right? And for those who take offense that some mistakes are stupid - well, there are some that are stupid! No questions are stupid, but mistakes sure can be!  I wish all of you could see firsthand what is out there as far as the quality of MTs.  I know you would be amazed at the disparity between MTs.  And we ALL makes mistakes, yes, but its how you handle them that counts. I try to be so kind and respectful to all with my corrections, even the lazy sloppy ones.  So many MTs are so sweet and write back and thank me for the help, which is totally not expected, while the lazy ones write back screaming at the injustices of their errors!  Or they call the president of the company screaming in indignation! Its a shame - I could give dozens of examples of absolutely incredible lazy not-thinking mistakes, but I would never want to embarass someone who I probably QA'd and who might read my post.  I never want to hurt a soul, but really wish some MTs would just think while they were transcribing.  Some MTs do try so hard - and with all the odds stacked against them by the dictators from outer space! Just my rambling thoughts at the start of a long night shift in QA-land!
Comment

Please also check borderline personality disorder on the internet.  True bipolar has fairly long periods of either mania or depression and cycles.  Bipolar is more ongoing pervasive personality of poor coping skills and conflicted interpersonal interactions.


My advice is to realize there is probably nothing you can do to help them or change them other than altering the way YOU deal with THEM for the good of your own mental health!


Comment

Not sure why you needed the computer as I am assuming you already had a computer and the equipment?  Most computers with fairly new Windows system would work okay.  I personally feel the rental fee is kind of a bad idea in the long run at $48.00 a month.  Sounds like you may need a phone line again unless you can get wireless.  You'll have to talk to tech, I guess.


As far as learning and training, are you on DQS? 


comment
With any job anymore be it MT or something such as an engineer, there is no such thing anymore as job security. I myself am 27 having 7 years experience as an MT. I actually got started in MT after my first year of college as I wanted something part-time . . so much for that:) Do I moan and groan sometimes about work, sure, we all do either if you are an MT or not, but at this point in my career I am confident that if I do not feel that I am getting enough work to provide myself with a wonderful life and not just getting along that I can submit my resume with confidence that I will find something to suit my needs.
can you say what the comment was?


I think it was the comment
that you type fast that got everyone's goat. Being an MT is just not that simple and hardly something to just learn on the sly for some "extra money." By the way, most of us at-home MTs actually started out in the workforce and got enough experience to BE ABLE to work from home, not the other way around.
Thanks for the comment but this is...
exactly what I mean. It is like there are those in this field that think just because you can pick on an error "clarity" vs "clearity" it makes you better then the next. I will admit I am not the best speller or and expert in grammer but I am not DUMB and no one should be made to fell that way. Especially if I am looking to the QA for guidance.


COMMENT

Hayseed, Aren't you the gal who did 1700 lines in 6 hours or something like that?  In that case, it's likely you wouldn't have any problem making their quota.  But, how about that hourly rate?  Will they be saving money by putting you on hourly, will you be making more money than when you were doing MT work?  Ask for all the details in writing, would be my advice.  Ask them to also state, in writing, if you can return to MT if you don't like QA.  Congratulations and good luck!!


Comment

This is a good solution; it puts it in their face, so to speak.  I've heard that people have to hear or see something an average of 3 times before it sinks in.  If they receive no feedback, they think everything is okay or totally horrible, depending on their own point of view (this is for all people in all aspects of life; I suspect that doctors will just assume that everything is okay).  If they receive negative feedback with a smile, they tend to believe that improvement is optional.  A more dramatic, serious approach is necessary. 


Comment

My situation may be a little bit different from yours, but you are not alone, and ER reports seems to be the main star.


I don't have any answers, but I'm kind of in the same boat with you.  I have been working on an account that has all worktypes.  I begin working very early in the morning, when I might be the only one working on this account.  The ER reports supposedly have top priority, right after the stat reports.  My problem is that lately I've noticed that once I complete all stat reports and am getting to the good stuff--the ER reports, whoever is managing the queue changes the priority of the more difficult OP reports and consultations, so that they float to the top of the queue, above the ER reports.  This maneuver would sometimes make sense, but the account specs are such that the ER reports have top priority. 


So, then, it takes several more hours to get to the ER reports, at which time there are so many workers on board that I end up getting 1 or 2 ER reports.  I've lately gone from making over $22/hour to a mere $7/hr.  I feel like I've been messed with, simply because I really got used to the account the way it used to be and now someone has come along and purposely made it more difficult for me.  I have the option of signing off, changing my hours, or going elsewhere.  I do have another interview pending after successfully completing the testing at another company.  I know that the grass is not always greener, but there is a limit to what type of treatment that I will tolerate.


Comment

I agree with you. 


This situation seems to be the end result of long years of MTs trying to do their best, while plugging along and accepting the treatment of the facilities, that filtered down to them through the MTSOs, who may or may not be addressing the issues of bad dictators with the facilities, for fear of losing the contracts.  I believe, it is the job of those who have direct contact with the doctors (i.e., those at the facility in the HIM dept).  According to what I have observed, they are not doing this job, and are either clueless, don't care, or enjoy this special power of oppressing the workforce from afar.  It also seems that they are not required to properly train their dictating clinicians.  Some of them are very active, however, in checking reports for proper comma use and such details, and do not hesitate to contact the MTSO to complain when the MT left out a comma, or failed to select the proper date of service on the header, failed to read the doc's mind and did not realize that when he/she coughed in a certain way, it was a clue that he/she wanted a copy sent to Dr. Joe Doe, etc.  Of course, they actually do not pay for headers and footers and they do not provide the MT with enough information to fill in all the details on the header and footer.


I have an egg timer.  I spend exactly 3 minutes trying to figure out a blank or the correct name for a doctor that requires a courtesy copy, etc.  If I cannot accomplish this in 3 minutes, given the lists that I have been provided or internet resources, the report gets a blank and it is sent to the QA department to figure it out.  Each report gets a grand total of 5 minutes for multiple look ups of blanks that are the fault of the dictator or due to me not having enough information to fill in headers, footers, consulting doctors, etc.  If it is my fault because I do not know the terminology, and the word was dictated clearly, I will take more time researching.  If the MTSO wants to address the issues of poor quality dictators/dictations with the facility, that is their choice.


If I were to have my own accounts, I would hope to have a deep pool to draw from so that I could include sanctions for such difficulties in my contract with the option of discontinuing service to those who proved to be so difficult.  However, I do not wish to be a dreamer, and don't think such deep pools exist, at least not in my part of the country, so I haven't even tried this option of having my own accounts.


 


Comment

I"m not sure I understand your comment, and I am not here to debate, but the account that I work on has plenty of difficult dictators, as well as plenty of easier dictators, comparatively.  My point was that you cannot depend on what type of report you will get at any given moment; there is no picking and choosing and the next in line might just change due to major shuffling.  It is not predictable by worktype either.  Whether there is plenty of work depends on how many MTs are working at the time, whatever jobs have been added to the pool, etc.  There is often no work during third shift.


Comment
Don't let the naive and trusting cause you frustration.  It will be their loss in the end.  Per the well-known phrase--The only way for evil to prevail is when people do nothing or continue to choose to remain blind and trust and support those who have proven themselves to not be worthy of trust.
Comment
Unfortunately, the "come around" part does not happen automatically; action is required in order to stimulate a reaction.  I admit to being part of the movement to treat doctors as regular human beings and requiring them to respect us as human beings, as well.
If you don't want to comment so be it...sm
You don't know me, I don't know you. I didn't see the harm.
wry comment
Maybe TravelinMT was just "wryly" commenting. How did I know she had been out of work? If so, why wasn't she commiserating with me, instead? Why did she even bother to read the post or comment at all? I was simply asking for advice, not trying to step on anyone's toes. I am in no way feeling sorry for myself. I am actually working, but will probably be out of a job in several months, so am searching now. I was simply asking about the possibilities of finding work.

I appreciate all the helpful posts, though.

I basically wanted to find out if anyone thought I could still find a job, period. And, if after a month, I should be feeling worried? It is amazing to me how many companies do not respond to resumes sent, so is hard to know where a person stands.

Thanks to all of you who gave me actual advice and encouragement. It is much appreciated.


Wry Comment
Geeze, you have two choices in this life, you can cry in your own misery or you can choose to make it better. I choose to fight, no one owes me a thing in this life. I have a son with a chronic disease and cancer, I am a single parent, I have often worked 3 and 4 jobs at one time. That is how I fight, I do what I need to do to make life the best it can be. AND WHO ARE YOU to decide or question whether or not I should read or answer a post? (The last time I looked this was a open forum on the internet.) That question goes both ways, Why did you post such a stupid question? You asked a question, I gave you an honest answer, Look in India because that is where the majority of our good jobs have gone. I have worked at more than one facility as a consultant knowing/seeing the writing on the wall as their on-site transcription gets out-sourced with promises to the employees that they will be working at home and the next thing they know the hospital says sorry, you have just been laid off. Life is tough for everyone. Suck it up and get over it. If you don't fight to make your life the best that it can be, no one will do it for you. Be grateful you are still working and have time to look, so if it takes you a while at least you still have a paycheck coming in.
Has any one else been mad from a QA comment?
I am just irate.  The first e-mail I opened today was from QA telling me "don't guess".  Boy that sent me through the roof .  I don't guess at anything, and it really bothers me that someone would accuse me of doing so.  Has anyone else ever had that happen to them?   How did you handle it?  I want to call the person and scream at them, but know I can't do that.  I just find it extremely insulting to be accused of guessing on a report, that is like the worst possible insult for an MT. 
as a spin-off on your comment
i just found out that Joran had a black eye from that night, supposedly from a fight with some guys. My theory is that he tried to force himself on Natalie, she fought, ended up dead and dear daddy the wanna-be judge helped dispose of her via his connections; i don't believe we'll ever find the body. Hope i'm wrong. I don't buy the just-a-kid idea. If it was an accident, he's had the opportunity to say so, make it right and deal with it. but no, him and dad are obviously in-the-know but not saying.

as far as the prejudice -- i think we all have it in some form to some degree or another, be it for color, obese folks, hill-folk, uneducated, religious, etc etc. Hopefully we will eventually all grow past it and see another soul, as God does.

Yes, media seems to have bias, but it is a reflection of the real world bias too. We've come a long way maybe, but it changes person by person, and it doesn't happen quickly.
Why the name calling? You are sad. The comment sm
was made because he was for spheris and the outsouring they do, and yes they don't advertise jobs here because they outsoure. You are the one that needs to do some soul seardhing and grow up.
Yeah, I have a comment
It's called work baby.  Every company has this.  Every job you have to do something you don't like.  My job, not at MQ, I have to take junk, work on other accounts, type bad doctors.  That's what you have to do in this line of work.  It's everywhere not just MQ.  At least you have work.  There are some MTs that havent had work for a long time and have no money coming in.  Have a good attitude and so what if you have to work a little longer to make a little more $.  You have to do that sometimes, it's life. 
now what good do you think that comment did. really.

Now THAT comment would have offended me!
nm
I don't understand your comment
Most parents do the best they can, but no one deserves what happened to those parents. How sad for the 2 little ones and how sad for the boy's parents too. I can only imagine their grief.

We all would like to feel safe in the way we bring up our kids and no doubt we all do the right thing, so nothing could ever happen to us, right?
What an absurd comment.
b
I know - my comment was deleted
.....I guess if you own the board you can delete anything you don't like being said about yourself.  So much for freedom of speech.
I had to reply to your comment about
the alcohol.  I totally don't get it either.  My daughters (the other is 20) are not allowed to drink in our house at all.  I have lectured them over and over again that the friends that they have that let their parents let thekids drink are asking for trouble and if I find out they give you alcohol I will have them arrested.  My 17 does not drink.  I am sure the 20 year old might at college.  I told her I have no control over that but it will not happen in our house.  The way some parents get away with allowing their kids to drink is going a way for a few hours and if something happens they are not responsible because they were not home.  I read an article that some parents have drinking after prom parties because they think the kids are safe in someones home.  My state just passed a law that if any adult is caught giving minors a drink they will be arrested.