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At the risk of being called one of the religious fanatics....

Posted By: sam on 2008-09-08
In Reply to: The 2 issues you describe usually go hand-in-hand. - 'Pro-life' is often used as a means to

and lumping everyone together in one pile is not fair may I say...you believe in choice. You are taking choice away from the child. If the child was able to speak I am relatively sure it would not choose to be exterminated like vermin. You want to give all the power to the woman over her body...perhaps she should take some responsibility for that body and not fall back on extermination as a method of birth control. If abortion was stopped for all but rape, incest, and endangering life of the mother hundreds of thousands of babies would be saved every year. What happened to responsibility? Why was that abandoned in the name of choice? If you can speak for the choice of the woman, why can't some of us speak for the right to life of the child? If she has it and drowns in 10 days later, she is tried for murder. What a difference 10 days makes, eh??

As far as jobs going overseas...when our government taxes businesses into oblivion (happens in every Dem admin) jobs go overseas. Because we have the next to highest business taxes in the entire world. That discourages businesses coming here also...and the jobs those businesses would create...as well as sending jobs from here offshore. Or they close completely, and jobs are lost. I have gone up steadily in earnings since the Clinton administration. I am doing much better now than I was then.

Socialism (redistribution of wealth) does not work either. It never has. Cuba, Venezuela...it never works. All that happens in socialism is eventually the middle class disappears, and all you have is the upper crust (govt and cronies) and the rest of the people. And in that case the money stays at the top...it never quite gets to the "people" where it was promised it would go. I imagine the Venezuelan people are still waiting for their oil checks since the government took it over. Socialism doesn't work. It is a myth to get people to give over the power to the power brokers...in our case, the DNC. Be careful what you ask for....


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Religious Fanatics are FAR more dangerous
You are absolutely right. You can tell that just by reading 99.9% of the posts on this board.
I repeat...religious fanatics scare me!
I don't care what religion they are. If they are fanatic about their chosen religion, they are not independent thinkers, and I find that frightening.
Don't think so. The fanatics have not been
on this forum in the past. You may want to take a look into the archives over the past couple of weeks....it has dominated. In fact, they revel in the conflict that ensues after bringing this subject up, unlike the majority of Americans who understand the need for us now to overcome our divisions and work together to address the very critical issues we face, beginning with the economy.

The lack of response is to the dead horse beating. There is no real answer to your question since O has nothing to hide and unlike the fanatics, most rational people do not get their kicks speculating about paranoid delusions.
There are fanatics in any group
and usually they are an embarrassment to the rest of that group, and usually are the most hypocritical. I can't speak for other Christians, but I do apologize to anyone who has been made uncomfortable by one. Usually a "no thanks" should suffice. :)
The "religious fanatics" thing is a cop-out.
nm
BC fanatics, the broken record.
x
Don't hold your breath waiting for the fanatics
They're probably holding a blog conference on how to discredit/over-rule the Supreme Court.
Former 9/11 Commissioners: U.S. at Risk

Am I the only one who isn't surprised by this?? 






Former 9/11 Commissioners: U.S. at Risk





By HOPE YEN, Associated Press WriterSun Dec 4, 6:28 PM ET



The U.S. is at great risk for more terrorist attacks because Congress and the White House have failed to enact several strong security measures, members of the former Sept. 11 commission said Sunday.


It's not a priority for the government right now, said the former chairman, Thomas Kean, ahead of the group's release of a report Monday assessing how well its recommendations have been followed.


More than four years after 9/11 ... people are not paying attention, the former Republican governor of New Jersey said. God help us if we have another attack.


Added Lee Hamilton, the former Democratic vice chairman of the commission: We believe that another attack will occur. It's not a question of if. We are not as well-prepared as we should be.


The five Republicans and five Democrats on the commission, whose recommendations are now promoted through a privately funded group known as the 9/11 Public Discourse Project, conclude that the government deserves more Fs than As in responding to their 41 suggested changes.


Since the commission's final report in July 2004, the government has enacted the centerpiece proposal to create a national intelligence director. But the government has stalled on other ideas, including improving communication among emergency responders and shifting federal terrorism-fighting money so it goes to states based on risk level.


There is a lack of a sense of urgency, Hamilton said. There are so many competing priorities. We've got three wars going on: one in Afghanistan, one in Iraq and the war against terror. And it's awfully hard to keep people focused on something like this.


National security adviser Stephen Hadley said Sunday that President Bush is committed to putting in place most of the commission's recommendations.


Obviously, as we've said all along, we are safer, but not yet safe. There is more to do, Hadley said on Fox News Sunday.


Ex-commissioners contended the government has been remiss by failing to act more quickly.


Kean said the Transportation Security Administration was wrong to announce changes last week that will allow airline passengers to carry small scissors and some sharp tools. He also said the agency, by now, should have consolidated databases of passenger information into a single terror watch list to aid screening.


I don't think we have to go backward here, said Kean, who appeared with Hamilton on NBC's Meet the Press.


They're talking about using more money for random checks. Terrorists coming through the airport may still not be spotted, Kean said.


Kean and Hamilton urged Congress to pass spending bills that would allow police and fire to communicate across radio spectrums and to reallocate money so that Washington and New York, which have more people and symbolic landmarks, could receive more for terrorism defense.


Both bills have stalled in Congress, in part over the level of spending and turf fights over which states should get the most dollars.


This is a no-brainer, said Hamilton, a former Indiana congressman.


From the standpoint of responding to a disaster, the key responders must be able to talk with one another. They could not do it on 9/11, and as a result of that, lives were lost. They could not do it at (Hurricane) Katrina. They still cannot do it.


As for the dollar dispute, Hamilton said, We know what terrorists want to do: they want to kill as many Americans as possible. That means you protect the Washington monument and United States Capitol, and not other places.

Congress established the commission in 2002 to investigate government missteps that led to the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. Its 567-page final report, which became a national best seller, does not blame Bush or former President Clinton for missteps contributing to the attacks but did say they failed to make anti-terrorism a higher priority.

The commission also concluded that the Sept. 11 attack would not be the nation's last, noting that al-Qaida had tried for at least 10 years to acquire weapons of mass destruction.

Calling the country less safe than we were 18 months ago, former Democratic commissioner Jamie Gorelick said Sunday the government's failure to move forward on the recommendations makes the U.S. more vulnerable.

She cited the failure to ensure that foreign nations are upgrading security measures to stop proliferation of nuclear, biological and chemical materials, as well as the FBI's resistance to overhauling its anti-terror programs.

You remember the sense of urgency that we all felt in the summer of 2004. The interest has faded, the Washington lawyer said on ABC's Good Morning America. You could see that in the aftermath of Katrina. We assumed that our government would be able to do what it needed to do and it didn't do it.

___

On the Net:

9/11 Public Discourse Project: http://www.9-11pdp.org/






I risk getting banned, but all I can think of
reading your post is: STUPID and living in a sdmall village in the MIDWEST, right?
Hehehehehe!
No, They are willing to risk it to "save the economy"
nm
I think the risk to the hostage is too high...(sm)
to just storm them.  France just did that to another one that had French hostages, and one of the hostages was killed during the raid.  I really don't want these guys to get away, but if we're talking about the safety of the hostage, maybe the best thing right now is to pay the ransom and then go after them.  I don't think they WANT to kill the hostage because then they get no money.  Keep in mind, this is a source of income for them  -- that's why they do it.
At the risk of sounding cold
I agree that it is a terrible thing that there has been no social security increase for 2 years. However, I must point out that I have actually seen a decrease in my income in the last 2 years. While I don't believe that they should be punished in their golden years, point of fact is that most of them do have their houses paid off. Their families are grown and gone. They are eligible for Medicare.

I believe it is endemic of the economy as a whole...obviously, if there's nobody working, there's nobody paying into social security. However, things are just as bleak out here for those of who who constitute the younger working poor, with mortgage/rent payments, medical insurance (if we can even get it), families to feed and dress, etc.
The child would be more at risk due to the enlarged ventricles and
pressure on the head. However, since you already know the child has hydrocephalus before she is born, you can make the choice as I did for C-section. I've done a lot of research on hydrocephalus the last 8+ years and I agree... this would not put the mother at high risk. And, hydrocephalus is not an immediate "vegetable" diagnosis by any means.
At the risk of hastening my descent into the brimstone
I almost think you're the one who is making religion almost too easy. It doesn't seem to matter what kind of a scumbag you are, as long as you believe Jesis died for your sins. Which explains a lot about some of what the "faithful" have said. You have no reason to lead an upstanding life...as long as you believe, you can break every commandment and still bask in your god's glory. Nice...maybe I've been going about this all wrong. Contrary to what you may think, I do believe in Jesus, the trinity, etc. But I somehow had the misguided notion that God judged us based on our character. Boy, have I been wasting a lot of time and patience.
Okay, well at the risk of starting a world war, that link does not work.
It says Page Not Found.  It appear Starcat was able to see it.  Evidently, it really IS a left-right problem.
JBB, I like your thinking, but at the risk of "beating a dead horse," .......
Buy new computers = putting money in the economy = jobs for people to build computers.

Those computers are built in Japan, China, Korea, and almost every place in the world BUT the USA.

Just like last year when we got our "stimulus check." The only economies jump started, if any, were the ones overseas when everybody bought their TV's, computers etc.

Carrying a hydrocephalic fetus doesn't put the mother at high risk. Please.. nm
x
and I'd like to keep my religious freedom sm
without having to answer to the Christian right.  If they had their way, we'd all be wearing babuskas and having a kid or two every year, paying homage to them at a tithe of 10% and having to hate all other religious ideologies. 
If Coulter is so religious...

...why doesn't anyone know her at the church she says she attends? 


No, not a religious board.

I'm referring to posts on the conservative political board under the post about Michelle Malkin. 


What is a religious wacko?

Someone who believes that a fetus is a human being?   Your label "religious wacko" is very disrespectful and unkind.   I am pro-life and I am not mentally unstable. 


Like it or not, the fight to protect the unborn will NEVER EVER stop. 


A religious wacko is...
Someone who does not understand the separation between church and state, that freedom of relgion also means freedom FROM religion, sees nothing wrong with imposing/ legislating their own religious beliefs and values on everyone else, goes bannas whenever anybody disagrees with them, and would just as soon replace our democratic system with Christian theocracy.
Can we say religious whacko.....
xx
I am not even religious. I like Palin because she is
nm
Religious Right has already messed up too much in this
and the rest of the misguided 'faithful' to step out of the picture so that our leaders can actually do their jobs, without all the holy rollers tripping them up.
Religious freedom.
dd
You don't have to be religious to be hated by
xx
This was not a religious post, but..(sm)
since you mentioned it, it is actually possible to have hope without God.  Athiests represent only a small portion of the general public as well as Obama supporters.  Your post assumes that everyone who supports Obama must be athiest.  You might want to revise that one.  LOL.
Religious Right and Gay Marriage

Gay marriage is an important issue for the religious right.


What exactly do they want a president to do about it?


Take this to the religious board
Many of us do not believe that. Many on the religious board do not believe that, but this is a religious statment. Show me the proof of what you just said.
Religious hierarchy...
I wonder what they call the homosexual henchmen who try to browbeat everyone who doesn't love and accept their behavior?
I am not even religious. Take your useless
nm
Sorry you have no religious beliefs....... that is sad!
--
Do you actually believe only religious people think
--
Many religious people are pro-choice.
.
I SAID most religious people...I did NOT say most Christians.
You guys don't rule the world, ya know. Just your little corner...just your own lives, not everyone else's.
Religious Protest from the Left
A Religious Protest Largely From the Left
Conservative Christians Say Fighting Cuts in Poverty Programs Is Not a Priority

By Jonathan Weisman and Alan Cooperman
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, December 14, 2005; A08


When hundreds of religious activists try to get arrested today to protest cutting programs for the poor, prominent conservatives such as James Dobson, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell will not be among them.


That is a great relief to Republican leaders, who have dismissed the burgeoning protests as the work of liberals. But it raises the question: Why in recent years have conservative Christians asserted their influence on efforts to relieve Third World debt, AIDS in Africa, strife in Sudan and international sex trafficking -- but remained on the sidelines while liberal Christians protest domestic spending cuts?


Conservative Christian groups such as Focus on the Family say it is a matter of priorities, and their priorities are abortion, same-sex marriage and seating judges who will back their position against those practices.


It's not a question of the poor not being important or that meeting their needs is not important, said Paul Hetrick, a spokesman for Focus on the Family, Dobson's influential, Colorado-based Christian organization. But whether or not a baby is killed in the seventh or eighth month of pregnancy, that is less important than help for the poor? We would respectfully disagree with that.


Jim Wallis, editor of the liberal Christian journal Sojourners and an organizer of today's protest, was not buying it. Such conservative religious leaders have agreed to support cutting food stamps for poor people if Republicans support them on judicial nominees, he said. They are trading the lives of poor people for their agenda. They're being, and this is the worst insult, unbiblical.


At issue is a House-passed budget-cutting measure that would save $50 billion over five years by trimming food stamp rolls, imposing new fees on Medicaid recipients, squeezing student lenders, cutting child-support enforcement funds and paring agriculture programs. House negotiators are trying to reach accord with senators who passed a more modest $35 billion bill that largely spares programs for the poor.


At the same time, House and Senate negotiators are hashing out their differences on a tax-cutting measure that is likely to include an extension of cuts in the tax rate on dividends and capital gains.


To mainline Protestant groups and some evangelical activists, the twin measures are an affront, especially during the Christmas season. Leaders of five denominations -- the United Methodist Church, Episcopal Church, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Presbyterian Church USA and United Church of Christ -- issued a joint statement last week calling on Congress to go back to the drawing board and come up with a budget that brings good news to the poor.


Around 300 religious activists have vowed to kneel in prayer this morning at the Cannon House Office Building and remain there until they are arrested. Wallis said that as they are led off, they will chant a phrase from Isaiah: Woe to you legislators of infamous laws . . . who refuse justice to the unfortunate, who cheat the poor among my people of their rights, who make widows their prey and rob the orphan.


To GOP leaders and their supporters in the Christian community, it is not that simple. Acting House Majority Leader Roy Blunt (R-Mo.) said yesterday that the activists' position is not intellectually right.


The right tax policy, such as keeping tax rates low on business investment, grows the economy, increases federal revenue -- and increased federal revenue makes it easier for us to pursue policies that we all can agree have social benefit, he said.


Dobson also has praised what he calls pro-family tax cuts. And Janice Crouse, a senior fellow at the Christian group Concerned Women for America, said religious conservatives know that the government is not really capable of love.


You look to the government for justice, and you look to the church and individuals for mercy. I think Hurricane Katrina is a good example of that. FEMA just failed, and the church and the Salvation Army and corporations stepped in and met the need, she said.


Tony Perkins, president of the conservative Family Research Council, said the government's role should be to encourage charitable giving, perhaps through tax cuts.


There is a [biblical] mandate to take care of the poor. There is no dispute of that fact, he said. But it does not say government should do it. That's a shifting of responsibility.


The Family Research Council is involved in efforts to stop the bloodshed in the Darfur region of Sudan as well as sex trafficking and slavery abroad. But Perkins said those issues are far different from the budget cuts now under protest. The difference there is enforcing laws to keep people from being enslaved, to be sold as sex slaves, he said. We're talking here about massive welfare programs.


The Rev. Richard Cizik, a vice president of the National Association of Evangelicals, returned yesterday from the Montreal conference on global climate change, another issue of interest to evangelicals. Frankly, I don't hear a lot of conversation among evangelicals about budget cuts in anti-poverty programs, he said. What I hear our people asking is, why are we spending $231 million on a bridge to nowhere in Alaska and can't find $50 million for African Union forces to stop genocide in Darfur?


© 2005 The Washington Post Company


We certainly wouldn't want a president whose religious
Or impact how they view society or race relations or even science. We surely would not want religious beliefs to impact political decisions on any level, including voters.
Religious people go to church
Religious people who go to work check their religion at the door. The constitution specifically instructs Congress to do the same. "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." This means keep religion out of federal legislative codes. Implied therein is the concept that the nation is not theocratic in nature.

The original poster is well understood in the expressed wish that this not be forgotten and remain unchanged. It is difficult to understand what is meant by the statement that religion will be in the White House under any leadership. Clearly, religious people, some to a greater degree than others, will inhabit the White House and the chambers of Congress. However, religion is constitutionally prohibited from entering the body of our laws and does not provide a foundation for our governmental institutions. The constitution has given indivuals immunity from federally mandates on religion. Wise men of great vision, our forefathers.
BINGO... that's why the rabid Religious Right does
They're as bad as the fundamentalist Islamics...'It's OUR way, or the highway'!

Sheep.
Are you saying only religious people are pro life?
If so, you are wrong.
It's only a "political" issue to religious

Why else would any religious group want you to vote?
Silly girl!
Trying to figure this out. Religious dems....sm
give more than religious repubs, and nonreligious dems give less than nonreligious repubs. Do I have this right? It seems to me the religious dems give the most, yes?

Not trying to start a religious discussion here, but
being on its knees is exactly what this country needs. 
Religious beliefs are not the issue here...
We were discussing the law...the phrase concerning Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness is actually in the Declaration of Independence, and does not mention "citizens" at all. Regardless of your religion or lack thereof, I'm not aware of any nation in which murder or the taking of a human life is not outlawed.

As far as the ultimate decision resting with God, of course all decisions ultimately rest with God. But does that mean we should not govern ourselves or our behavior while we are here on this earth? Of course not. Laws protect the innocent - few are as innocent as an unborn child. It never ceases to amaze me that people can condone the killing of unborn babies, but are horrified if someone kills one that is 3 days old...or leaves one in a dumpster shortly after birth...or on the doorsteps of a church. I think it has been drilled into our heads for so long that this is a choice for women and our RIGHT that we actually never step back and think about the fact that we are talking about killing babies. If someone were to propose a law that men...simply because they were men...had the right to, oh, kill 3 year olds, people would laugh their heads off at the absurdity of it. Yet that is exactly what we are doing - giving women the right to kill their own children, simply because they are women and the child is in their body. Why not give the fathers the right to abort the child? After all, it is half theirs? Again, an absurd notion. But because we are women and the children grow in our bodies, we have the right to kill them? I'm sorry, I can never understand the justification for this. There are alternatives. There are choices. Choosing to kill the child should not be an option. In what other situation is it acceptable to kill another human being as a viable choice? I can think of only one - self-preservation. Self defense. So I supposed under the law, if the unborn child is killing you, you should probably be able to protect yourself. I would have to agree with that argument, but sadly, that is rarely the reason for an abortion.
Very true. More religious propaganda..sm
One nation indivisibile, no matter what your religion, with liberty and justice for all was the original intent to pledge that you love your country. No religious affiliation necessary. What ever happend to "Love thy neighbor as thyself"? "As you do unto the least, so you do unto me", "Judge not lest you be judged", and there are many others. My God is a God of love and knows we are all fallible, but he does not judge us. He is there to love us and to try to guide us toward loving and helping our fellow humans, not hate and division and bigotry that people who have a lot to gain by influencing politics are fostering in the name of God/Jesus and religion. This is the reason that there need to be a separation of church and state in this country. Amost every war that has ever been fought has been fought in the name of God/religion. Do you think that it is God's intent that we should be at war in his name? Think about it.
Plays the religious card?
When it suits him? How about trying to set the record straight when others spew baloney about him? If you were running for office, you would do the same thing if people were saying incorrect things about you, what you believe in, have voted or not voted for, etc.

If he didn't people would then say, "See, he didn't dispute it, so it must be true." Either way, the bashers find reason to bash ... cause that's what they do.
If it were so free (of religious bulls#it), then
Right?
Religious Coalition for Choice
I received an email last night from the above organization, RCRC.org. It is an organization supported by many major religious supporting reproductive choice. A few of the member groups are:

Catholics for Choice
The American Baptist Church
Presbyterian Church USA
United Methodist Church
Episcopal Church
United Church of Christ
Union for Reformed Judiasm
any many, many more ...

I posted this on this board because the choice issue is a political issue, as well as a faith issue for so many people.

As a Jew, I find it interesting that so many Christian organizations support reproductive choice for women. I'm curious if anyone here belongs to any of these groups or knows anything about the organization. I am still reading up on it myself.
Silence. Did everyone go to the religious board?nm
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