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GOP a fascist cult? See the list of criteria, seems it is so.sm

Posted By: LVMT on 2006-08-01
In Reply to:

A Christian Republican speaks to other Christians
Beware: the GOP has become a fascist cult

I have been telling Conservative Christians that who should be howling at the top of their lungs is not the Liberal Left, it is the Far Right Christian Conservatives for they are being lied to, seduced and misled even more so than the Liberal Left. They are being seduced into fascism and that is not Christianity.

Christians are admonished in the Bible to be leery of new prophets for all prophecy ended with the coming of Christ the Messiah. In the Book of James we are warned of the evil that comes from the mouths of men. James 3:5-6: Likewise the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark. The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.

Book of James 3:9: With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in Gods' likeness. Out of the same mouth comes praise and cursing.

Unless you are deaf, dumb and blind, Christians need to come to grips with the fact that Bush-Cheney are lying to the world and that is not a mark of Christian virtue, nor is it a mark that the Bible tells us to seek, or to follow as Christians.

One does not have to look very far or dig very deep to find one lie after another that has come from Bush-Cheney. It is all an agenda; it is all about empowerment and greed and doing anything they wish, to anyone, and wrapping that all up as lies and spin to deceive us all.

I see it very clearly and if you saw it as clearly as I do, you would not vote for them at gunpoint, either, for to do so would be making yourself a deluded Christian that is not using discernment, that is following liars, and is on the wrong course.

Many Christian teachings give step-by-step advice on how to recognize a religious cult, and the same basic steps are necessary to recognize a political cult. If you know what to look for, and take the time to study closely, you can accurately recognize that Bush-Cheney is a cult of lust, power and greed, none of which are considered Christian virtues.

How to Identify a Cult

Here's a few guidelines to recognize a cult. If several of these apply to a group which has approached you, think twice before getting involved.

Do they put the demands of the group before family, school, and interests?

Are they vague about what their beliefs are until you're in the group?

Does the leader demand unquestioning agreement or obedience?

Is the leader a charismatic person who claims special spiritual powers?

Does the group change your sleeping and eating patterns?

Does the group keep you in constant group situations and promote dependency?

Does the group feel that only they have spiritual truth and that all other groups and churches are wrong?

Do group members keep contacting you even after you have told them you are not interested?
In fact, if you look real close at Bush-Cheney and understand the fundamental dynamics of what brought Hitler to power, how he controlled the masses, how he sold the Great Lie, it is very easy to see that Bush-Cheney Compassionate Conservatism and Fascism are one in the same. Many hear the term Neocon and do not recognize that in its current operative sense, it is a term meaning New World Order Fascist.

Following are the Fourteen Common Threads of Fascism and how to spot fascism. I ask that you read and think, as an American, as a Christian. Use the mind that God gave you and use discernment that the Bible warns you to use as a shield against following wrong or evil. I have taken the Laurence W. Britt section headings and written what I have to say to you Christians, coming from me as a Christian about each of those 14 points.

Fascism Anyone?

Fascism's principles are wafting in the air today, surreptitiously masquerading as something else, challenging everything we stand for.

By Laurence W. Britt

The clich� that people and nations learn from history is not only overused, but also overestimated; often we fail to learn from history, or draw the wrong conclusions. Sadly, historical amnesia is the norm.

We are two-and-a-half generations removed from the horrors of Nazi Germany, although constant reminders jog the consciousness. German and Italian fascism form the historical models that define this twisted political worldview. Although they no longer exist, this worldview and the characteristics of these models have been imitated by protofascist regimes at various times in the twentieth century. Both the original German and Italian models and the later protofascist regimes show remarkably similar characteristics. Although many scholars question any direct connection among these regimes, few can dispute their visual similarities.

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. We were purportedly attacked by al Qaeda, but Bush-Cheney do not want any of us to know who the American and foreign names are that FBI translator Sibel D. Edmonds found in translating those documents and who financed 9-11. We were told Saudis did it, but what Sibel found disputes that and Bush, Cheney and Ashcroft put a federal gag order on her so you and I cannot know whose names are on that list.

Stop and think�what does protecting the identity of American and foreign names have to do with national security except to prove WHO DID IT?

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights. If you have not figured it out yet, the USA PATRIOT Act and Patriot Act II are undermining the freedoms of all of us, treating us all as al Qaeda suspects, and is part of a larger New World Order objective. Consider this�there are some who want the American Dream only for themselves and you do not get to have it if they win. We are also having many things done in our name in Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere that Americans would reject if they knew the truth. What is really disgusting is that both sides of the aisle are doing it to America. Their wealthy masters (contributors) are telling them to. They are making the big bucks and we are getting stuck with the debt, the dead and maimed soldiers, not to mention the burdens their families are bearing and the burdens the rest of our families are enduring, all in the name of lies, imperialism and greed.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. The entire world now knows that Bush lied about Iraq. I have made millions come to know that the Taliban had signed a contract with Argentina based Bridas Corporation to build that pipeline we now control across Afghanistan. The shortest and cheapest route to the sea for $10+ trillion in oil and over $3 trillion in natural gas is from Turkmenistan, across Afghanistan, Pakistan to the ocean.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism. George W. Bush is not Caesar and our troops are not Roman Legions out to do the bidding of the Wealthy Elite.

5. Rampant sexism. I hear one woman after another talking about how hot George W. Bush is and why they support him. This election is about the fate of this nation and has nothing to do with following a liar. I do not think the Stepford Wives is what ladies want to be, but there is plenty of Republican sexism and plenty of misleading to sell it as something it is not. They want your vote, other than that could not care less what you think, feel, want or need.

6. A controlled mass media. If you think you are getting all you need to know from Clear Channel, CNN and FOXNews, you need to look around and consider that maybe they are not being truthful with you, and maybe there is more going on in this world than Scott & Laci Peterson, Kobe Bryant, Michael Jackson, etc. Maybe the media is answering more to their masters than to the truth. Maybe they do not show us the facts because their wealthy masters will not let them. How can you make a decision with only lies to found a decision upon?

7. Obsession with national security. To the point of treating all of us as al Qaeda suspects, lessening our freedoms for security that is non-existent. Always remember, what government takes away they rarely if ever give back. Consider the words of Thomas Jefferson�where the government fears the people, there is freedom. Where the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Welcome to current day America. Homeland Security is protecting the government, not you and your family, loved ones and friends.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together. Separation of church and state is so that the government cannot dictate or ordain what each of us is to believe when it comes to religion. What has slowly evolved is a circumstance where our religion elite and government elite are pursuing the same end and I do not see a healthy future in that department. God is our Lord, not George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. Jesus Christ is our Savior, not George Bush or Dick Cheney. Our church is within each of our hearts, not in the idle words from Washington, DC.

9. Power of corporations protected. What you have been witnessing over the past 12-16 years is the Corporatization of the U.S. Government and that by its very definition is fascism. That is why the corporations grow more powerful as you grow weaker. That is why they have the American Dream and many Americans do not and will not. That is why corporate fraud is not punished but if you do anything wrong, are punished. Richard W. Behan, author of The GOP, Inc calls them Movement Conservatives, and I call them Financial Terrorists. We are describing the same thing, but he is describing the disease and I am describing in my book the etymology of how that disease is systematically ruining this nation, this world and diminishing the lives of us all; how it kills hopes, dreams, futures. Richard is a Liberal and I am a Conservative and on this, we totally agree.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated. Three million jobs lost, many of them organized labor positions and just in case one has a Ph.D or MBA, quit complaining and take the Wal-Mart job, lose your home, health care, etc. Look around you, Christians, at the hopelessness you see in the faces of those around you and the sheer indifference of the government that pretends to lead us, be us. When was the last time you saw goodness, integrity, honor, Christian values come out of DC? Such does not come from there, so be careful with your answer.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts. Extend that to include freedom of speech, freedom of dissent, etc. If you stand up against this fascism, your report is sent to the Homeland Security Counter Terrorism Division, which in part explains why Homeland Security is protecting this government, not this nation, and in part explains why they just cannot seem to find the real terrorists. They are almost totally focused on U.S. citizens as the terrorist they fear. In my book, I define Financial Terrorists, what they do that creates the other forms of terrorism. We are not hated for our freedoms�we are hated for abusive U.S. policies and that is driven not by you and me, but that is driven by DC and their wealthy corporate masters. Greed is not a Christian virtue.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment. Lest you have not noticed, Ashcroft is batting 0 for 5,000 in the department of nailing the bad guys. I sent a letter to President Bush, Kerry and the Democratic National Committee on September 30 and these were two of the demands for the truth I put before these leaders and wannabe leaders:

2. I demand to know what energy companies were in that Cheney Energy Task Force meeting and what discussions there were as to the steps that would be taken to remove the Taliban and Bridas Corporation as the last remaining obstacle to the United States controlling the Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline. I met that company in 1999 and have known since then about the Bridas v Unocal, $15 billion interference of contract lawsuit in US District Court, Southern District of Texas. I also know about the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals decision on September 9, 2003 that upheld the Bridas $500 million arbitration settlement and the March 22, 2004 denial of Writ of Certiorari at the United States Supreme Court, Case 03-1018, Turkmenneft v Bridas

3. I demand to know how many prisoners are being held at GITMO and other places that are either BRIDAS EMPLOYEES or are persons that know all about Bridas Corporation and what your administration did to get control of that Trans-Afghanistan pipeline.

This administration is more focused on defending themselves against Americans who do not buy off on their lies than looking for al Qaeda. They are more concerned about four more years of entitlement to plunder this nation and others abroad. They are totally focused on taking over trillions of dollars worth of oil even with lies and making war to do so. That is not a mark of Christian virtue.

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption. Just look at Cheney-Halliburton and one should have all they need to know. Look at the no rule of law brought against Enron, Tyco, Williams Communications Group, Global Crossing, etc., etc., etc., and the millions of investors plowed under the in wake. You are poorer and they are wealthier than ever. When you figure out that the robber barons are the major campaign contributors to both parties and they want legal rights under color of law to plunder you, let me know. You will have had an epiphany.

14. Fraudulent elections. The 2000 Election still stinks to high heaven. If you have not heard, all across the U.S., Republicans are signing up people to vote. If Republican, those are being recorded; if Democrat, being discarded in the trash. That is not American; that is abusive, deceitful and un-American. Check Voter Fraud, KLAS, George Knapp, Las Vegas, NV.

I spent election night 1994 with RNC Finance in Washington, DC at the Renaissance Hotel, 10th & K Streets, at the table of William J. McManus, former RNC Treasurer. I pulled out of the RNC (Republican National Committee) when I learned that the Contract with America and the media spin was actually a Contract On America. It is all about Big Corporate business and socially malevolent to folks like you and me. Look close, pay attention.

Remember ladies and gentlemen, the U.S. government is not America, merely the instrument of government in America. We are America, not them. U.S. Corporations are not America, merely businesses based here. We are America, not them.

When they lie to us to lead us, they do not deserve to lead us

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GOP a fascist cult? See the list of criteria, seems it is so.sm - LVMT
- Oh, I don't think so. sm - MT
  - Do we have a different definition for the word lie?nm - LVMT
    - A facist cult? That's going a little too far - Hattie
    - Probably. nm - MT

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with your criteria
maybe those tortured at Gitmo should get a shot at running for prez.

your criteria

Please go back and reread your post.

Really? I would hate to see your criteria for racism

See below:

As a young broadcaster in the 1970s, Limbaugh once told a black caller: "Take that bone out of your nose and call me back." A decade ago, after becoming nationally syndicated, he mused on the air: "Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?"

In 1992, on his now-defunct TV show, Limbaugh expressed his ire when Spike Lee urged that black schoolchildren get off from school to see his film Malcolm X: "Spike, if you're going to do that, let's complete the education experience. You should tell them that they should loot the theater, and then blow it up on their way out."

In a similar vein, here is Limbaugh's mocking take on the NAACP, a group with a ninety-year commitment to nonviolence: "The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get a liquor store and practice robberies."

When Carol Moseley-Braun (D-IL) was in the U.S. Senate, the first black woman ever elected to that body, Limbaugh would play the "Movin' On Up" theme song from TV's "Jeffersons" when he mentioned her. Limbaugh sometimes still uses mock dialect -- substituting "ax" for "ask"-- when discussing black leaders.

Such quotes and antics -- many compiled by Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting (FAIR) for our 1995 book -- offer a whiff of Limbaugh's racial sensibility. So does his claim that racism in America "is fueled primarily by the rantings and ravings" of people like Jesse Jackson. Or his ugly reference two years ago to the father of Madonna's first child, a Latino, as "a gang-member type guy" -- an individual with no gang background.

It may not be new....but if you read the criteria for the prize...
set out by the man who endowed it..."environmental concerns" or anything remotely like it are listed there. Over the years it has become a political statement rather than a true peace award. Sad, in my opinion, and even if it were given for environmental concerns, it should not have been given for flawed science. Again, just my opinion.

And same old fascist hoopla.
You're just so whacked out of reality by the propaganda they spoon-feed you that you're ready to serve like a slave the very people whose dearest wish is to grind you under their boot heels - only they can't because they need gullible servants like yourself to keep feeding their needs.

We've heard all too much about how the poor (when actually we were talking about the middle class, weren't we?)are the only ones who can help themselves and if they don't it's their own fault.

Well look ducky - that's exactly what the venomous bloodsuckers at the top want you to think. What a fool you are. You tell me why the poor pay up to 80% higher interest rates than the rich. Hmmm? Is that their fault? And no nonsense about them being credit risks - that's a load of garbage. The rich declare bankruptcy at a rate equal to or HIGHER than the so-called poor. But it's not just the poor we're talking about. An average middle class person can't get but a measly 1 or 2 percent interest on his savings - but how much interest do they pay on their bank loans,huh? - 15%? 17%? Oh yeah, there's a fair system.

We could go on and on about the inequities that are DELIBERATELY DESGINED AND BUILT INTO OUR FREE MARKET system to keep the poor AND the middle class struggling while the parasitic rich rake it in at their expense.

These problems aren't fixed due to any lack of character of the poor, you dummy - they aren't fixed because the parasitic rich don't WANT them fixed. They like things fine the way they are. THEY PROFIT BY THEM. And they are a very powerful group of people. The poor don't have a chance against that kind of sociopathic thievery without some kind of advocacy on their behalf.

And let's be clear about the fact that it's not riches themselves that are evil and not all rich people are the enemies of societies. But, unfortunately, in our PARTICULAR society right now, there is a strong and influential class that really are no more than parasites feeding off the blood of the nation. You have to hold a match to these ticks or they're never going to let go.

You are more unpatriotic.... and fascist
than most

Good looking....matter of opinion..but not a criteria....
for presidency. He could get run over by a truck, we get Biden, Biden has an aneurysm and we get Pelosi. Now THERE is something SCARY. I would pick Palin over Pelosi in a HEARTBEAT...since we are so concerned about heartbeats. McCain could outlive'em all. And I would take Palin on day 1 before I would Obama. I KNOW what he is and what he wants to do to this country....which leads me to Nobama. Noway. Nohow.

Switch fascist movement with
conservative movement and you have a winner for your very obtuse definition! All except the organic part. We liberals like to know where our food comes from whereas the conservatives don't really care as long as it's cheap and exploits poor farmers.

You need some serious education on fascist police states
if you are referring to the U.S. Now, parts of France on the other hand has had to become a police state at times due to the riots against almighty socialism. Irony is a fun thing to watch play out sometimes and also how people think the grass is greener anywhere but where they are.

Disagree. We have a fascist corpocracy, long overdue
The democracy will emerge once we clean house and get a real American elected to office. Excuse me for looking forward, not backards.

Fascist police state vs. socialism - great choices.nm
z

Cult?
Sounds like a cult, doesn't it?

only a cult, hardly
I have Baptists knock on my door, Penticostals knock on my door, and the bible-thumping church down the road knock on my door.

Are they all cults?

A facist cult? That's going a little too far
I personally belief extreme left views lean towards fascism, but a fascist cult? Nah. The views on the right and left run the gamut. I wouldn't classify either as a cult though some like doing this, because of their determination to tear down the opposing view.

your cult-like talk

proves my point. To believe that all media except Fox is biased and that they were forced to chose the LEAST biased is franky cult-talk He did not try to trick her. he asked her straight out "what do you thank about the Bush Doctrine?" This is the definine doctrine of the Bush years that will be remembered in history. She did not know it. If she where honest, she would have said "I am not familar with it." Instead, she squirmed in her seat, thrust out her chin and tried to bluff him into giving her a hint.

He had his glasses on the end of his nose because he is over 40 and wears reading glasses like most older men. You knew that. You are trying to distract from the point again.

You never have anything good to say about McCain. You are focused on your hatred for Obama and frankly, it is creepy.

cult techniques

Isolation. Continually warn susceptible person not to trust any information other than what is presented by their particular group. Label all who are not WITH us, AGAINST us. Let's watch some more Fox "news"

Christianity is not a cult?
Seriously? You might want to check a dictionary.

Definition of cult
All you have to do is read the Faith board to see the similarities.

1.
a. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
b. The followers of such a religion or sect.

2. A system or community of religious worship and ritual.

3. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.

4. A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.

5.
a. Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
b. The object of such devotion.

6. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.

Ignore the cult like thing.
The same comment could have been applied to Reagan, Kennedy, Robert Kennedy, and FDR, and to a lesser extent to GW Bush. Looking at the election from a cult following is looking at the candidate's supporters, and not looking at the candidate, his qualifications and plans.

CULT warning. "Trust no

information that is not directly from us." Faux cult. True Believers.

CULT warning. Disparage any

institution that does not follow our strict definitions of correctness. All or nothing thinking. For us or against us. Faux cult. True Believers.

Sounds like a cult leader.
No votes for this man from me. He is up to no good.

SP cult strangely silent
x

Not necessarily cult worship

I don't know about cult worship, but I do know I have several friends who are African American who are over the moon. Why? Because for the first time in history someone who looks like they do really can do anything and be anything they want to be.

Religion, by definition, is a cult.
I did say that nearly 1000 Christians were killed in my original post. The church created by Jim Jones originally joined the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) and then was renamed The People's Temple Christian Church Full Gospel.

Someone posted that the followers of Jim Jones were not Christians, they were members of a cult. Someone then posted the definition of Christianity, saying that it was not a cult. All I did was post the definition of a cult. You are the one who is whipping yourself into a frenzy, not I.

Another Obot that follows the cult of Obama worshipping
This whole Obama thing has gotten way out of hand. Am I glad we have Obama in there. You bet - I voted for him. But I haven't succombed to the cult worship of him like you have and others I have seen on this board.

I'm hoping he is a good man and will do good for the country. We won't know that until he actually gets in and gets to work. You know...like give him a chance in the job first before worshipping the ground he walks on and proclaiming he is an excellent president.

The cult of Obama has gone way past the "creep" zone. People (adults in high school/college) saying "Because of Obama I'm going to be a scientist" or "Because of Obama I'm going to be a lawyer". Excuse me, but what were you going to do before Obama came along, and if Obama never became president what would you have been? A bum? By the way, didn't you start studying to be a lawyer, scientist, or whatever occupation before Obama came along? Makes me wonder about their logic and reasoning (as in they have none). The fact that they have already made Obama's portrait when he has not been sworn in yet, they put his face on memorabilia coins next to Washington and Kennedy's head (which he is like neither). Why not put his head next to Carter or Clinton's face on a coin. Then on top of that they color his face but leave the two (Kennedy & Washington) in gold. I studied and worked in marketing and that is what we referred to as "subliminal messages". This time making it appear that Obama is much better than they were. Comic books are using his picture in them. Monuments are being created in his image (to include a monument to celebrate him at the hospital in Kenya where he was born).

It is just getting way way way too much past the creep zone for me. Heaven's gait, scientology, David Koresh and Waco Texas, the FLDS group in Texas, and now the Obama cult worshippers all fall in the same category of "creep-zone" however, I'll take any of those other groups over the Obama Cult worshippers any day.

I voted for Obama because I believe he's a good man and he has some good ideas that may help the country. He's not the messiah, second coming or whatever you people think he is. He is a man, plain and simple, that is following the directions of Zbigniew Brzezinski. People need a good slap of reality to get them back to the real life here.

Crowds shed tears of joy???? Yeah that sure does speak for itself.... give me the muslim terrorists, scientology, heaven's gait or any of the others any day, at least I can understand their thinking. The Obama Cult worshippers I cannot.

Bridger, only a cult would knock on your door.
x

NeoCon cult vision promotes more fear.
nm

Add this to the list
Remember a while back when this story first hit the fan and the cons from the other board came over to tell us we are paranoid? Boy, life sure is simpler if you drink the Kool-Aid, isn't it?

A representative from Qwest just told me they have had lots of calls switching their service over to them.

By Leslie Cauley, USA TODAY
The National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth, people with direct knowledge of the arrangement told USA TODAY.

The NSA program reaches into homes and businesses across the nation by amassing information about the calls of ordinary Americans � most of whom aren't suspected of any crime. This program does not involve the NSA listening to or recording conversations. But the spy agency is using the data to analyze calling patterns in an effort to detect terrorist activity, sources said in separate interviews.

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS: The NSA record collection program

It's the largest database ever assembled in the world, said one person, who, like the others who agreed to talk about the NSA's activities, declined to be identified by name or affiliation. The agency's goal is to create a database of every call ever made within the nation's borders, this person added.

For the customers of these companies, it means that the government has detailed records of calls they made � across town or across the country � to family members, co-workers, business contacts and others.

The three telecommunications companies are working under contract with the NSA, which launched the program in 2001 shortly after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, the sources said. The program is aimed at identifying and tracking suspected terrorists, they said.

The sources would talk only under a guarantee of anonymity because the NSA program is secret.

Air Force Gen. Michael Hayden, nominated Monday by President Bush to become the director of the CIA, headed the NSA from March 1999 to April 2005. In that post, Hayden would have overseen the agency's domestic call-tracking program. Hayden declined to comment about the program.

The NSA's domestic program, as described by sources, is far more expansive than what the White House has acknowledged. Last year, Bush said he had authorized the NSA to eavesdrop � without warrants � on international calls and international e-mails of people suspected of having links to terrorists when one party to the communication is in the USA. Warrants have also not been used in the NSA's efforts to create a national call database.

In defending the previously disclosed program, Bush insisted that the NSA was focused exclusively on international calls. In other words, Bush explained, one end of the communication must be outside the United States.

As a result, domestic call records � those of calls that originate and terminate within U.S. borders � were believed to be private.

Sources, however, say that is not the case. With access to records of billions of domestic calls, the NSA has gained a secret window into the communications habits of millions of Americans. Customers' names, street addresses and other personal information are not being handed over as part of NSA's domestic program, the sources said. But the phone numbers the NSA collects can easily be cross-checked with other databases to obtain that information.

Don Weber, a senior spokesman for the NSA, declined to discuss the agency's operations. Given the nature of the work we do, it would be irresponsible to comment on actual or alleged operational issues; therefore, we have no information to provide, he said. However, it is important to note that NSA takes its legal responsibilities seriously and operates within the law.

The White House would not discuss the domestic call-tracking program. There is no domestic surveillance without court approval, said Dana Perino, deputy press secretary, referring to actual eavesdropping.

She added that all national intelligence activities undertaken by the federal government are lawful, necessary and required for the pursuit of al-Qaeda and affiliated terrorists. All government-sponsored intelligence activities are carefully reviewed and monitored, Perino said. She also noted that all appropriate members of Congress have been briefed on the intelligence efforts of the United States.

The government is collecting external data on domestic phone calls but is not intercepting internals, a term for the actual content of the communication, according to a U.S. intelligence official familiar with the program. This kind of data collection from phone companies is not uncommon; it's been done before, though never on this large a scale, the official said. The data are used for social network analysis, the official said, meaning to study how terrorist networks contact each other and how they are tied together.

Carriers uniquely positioned

AT&T recently merged with SBC and kept the AT&T name. Verizon, BellSouth and AT&T are the nation's three biggest telecommunications companies; they provide local and wireless phone service to more than 200 million customers.

The three carriers control vast networks with the latest communications technologies. They provide an array of services: local and long-distance calling, wireless and high-speed broadband, including video. Their direct access to millions of homes and businesses has them uniquely positioned to help the government keep tabs on the calling habits of Americans.

Among the big telecommunications companies, only Qwest has refused to help the NSA, the sources said. According to multiple sources, Qwest declined to participate because it was uneasy about the legal implications of handing over customer information to the government without warrants.

Qwest's refusal to participate has left the NSA with a hole in its database. Based in Denver, Qwest provides local phone service to 14 million customers in 14 states in the West and Northwest. But AT&T and Verizon also provide some services � primarily long-distance and wireless � to people who live in Qwest's region. Therefore, they can provide the NSA with at least some access in that area.

Created by President Truman in 1952, during the Korean War, the NSA is charged with protecting the United States from foreign security threats. The agency was considered so secret that for years the government refused to even confirm its existence. Government insiders used to joke that NSA stood for No Such Agency.

In 1975, a congressional investigation revealed that the NSA had been intercepting, without warrants, international communications for more than 20 years at the behest of the CIA and other agencies. The spy campaign, code-named Shamrock, led to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), which was designed to protect Americans from illegal eavesdropping.

Enacted in 1978, FISA lays out procedures that the U.S. government must follow to conduct electronic surveillance and physical searches of people believed to be engaged in espionage or international terrorism against the United States. A special court, which has 11 members, is responsible for adjudicating requests under FISA.

Over the years, NSA code-cracking techniques have continued to improve along with technology. The agency today is considered expert in the practice of data mining � sifting through reams of information in search of patterns. Data mining is just one of many tools NSA analysts and mathematicians use to crack codes and track international communications.

Paul Butler, a former U.S. prosecutor who specialized in terrorism crimes, said FISA approval generally isn't necessary for government data-mining operations. FISA does not prohibit the government from doing data mining, said Butler, now a partner with the law firm Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld in Washington, D.C.

The caveat, he said, is that personal identifiers � such as names, Social Security numbers and street addresses � can't be included as part of the search. That requires an additional level of probable cause, he said.

The usefulness of the NSA's domestic phone-call database as a counterterrorism tool is unclear. Also unclear is whether the database has been used for other purposes.

The NSA's domestic program raises legal questions. Historically, AT&T and the regional phone companies have required law enforcement agencies to present a court order before they would even consider turning over a customer's calling data. Part of that owed to the personality of the old Bell Telephone System, out of which those companies grew.

Ma Bell's bedrock principle � protection of the customer � guided the company for decades, said Gene Kimmelman, senior public policy director of Consumers Union. No court order, no customer information � period. That's how it was for decades, he said.

The concern for the customer was also based on law: Under Section 222 of the Communications Act, first passed in 1934, telephone companies are prohibited from giving out information regarding their customers' calling habits: whom a person calls, how often and what routes those calls take to reach their final destination. Inbound calls, as well as wireless calls, also are covered.

The financial penalties for violating Section 222, one of many privacy reinforcements that have been added to the law over the years, can be stiff. The Federal Communications Commission, the nation's top telecommunications regulatory agency, can levy fines of up to $130,000 per day per violation, with a cap of $1.325 million per violation. The FCC has no hard definition of violation. In practice, that means a single violation could cover one customer or 1 million.

In the case of the NSA's international call-tracking program, Bush signed an executive order allowing the NSA to engage in eavesdropping without a warrant. The president and his representatives have since argued that an executive order was sufficient for the agency to proceed. Some civil liberties groups, including the American Civil Liberties Union, disagree.

Companies approached

The NSA's domestic program began soon after the Sept. 11 attacks, according to the sources. Right around that time, they said, NSA representatives approached the nation's biggest telecommunications companies. The agency made an urgent pitch: National security is at risk, and we need your help to protect the country from attacks.

The agency told the companies that it wanted them to turn over their call-detail records, a complete listing of the calling histories of their millions of customers. In addition, the NSA wanted the carriers to provide updates, which would enable the agency to keep tabs on the nation's calling habits.

The sources said the NSA made clear that it was willing to pay for the cooperation. AT&T, which at the time was headed by C. Michael Armstrong, agreed to help the NSA. So did BellSouth, headed by F. Duane Ackerman; SBC, headed by Ed Whitacre; and Verizon, headed by Ivan Seidenberg.

With that, the NSA's domestic program began in earnest.

AT&T, when asked about the program, replied with a comment prepared for USA TODAY: We do not comment on matters of national security, except to say that we only assist law enforcement and government agencies charged with protecting national security in strict accordance with the law.

In another prepared comment, BellSouth said: BellSouth does not provide any confidential customer information to the NSA or any governmental agency without proper legal authority.

Verizon, the USA's No. 2 telecommunications company behind AT&T, gave this statement: We do not comment on national security matters, we act in full compliance with the law and we are committed to safeguarding our customers' privacy.

Qwest spokesman Robert Charlton said: We can't talk about this. It's a classified situation.

In December, The New York Times revealed that Bush had authorized the NSA to wiretap, without warrants, international phone calls and e-mails that travel to or from the USA. The following month, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a civil liberties group, filed a class-action lawsuit against AT&T. The lawsuit accuses the company of helping the NSA spy on U.S. phone customers.

Last month, U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales alluded to that possibility. Appearing at a House Judiciary Committee hearing, Gonzales was asked whether he thought the White House has the legal authority to monitor domestic traffic without a warrant. Gonzales' reply: I wouldn't rule it out. His comment marked the first time a Bush appointee publicly asserted that the White House might have that authority.

Similarities in programs

The domestic and international call-tracking programs have things in common, according to the sources. Both are being conducted without warrants and without the approval of the FISA court. The Bush administration has argued that FISA's procedures are too slow in some cases. Officials, including Gonzales, also make the case that the USA Patriot Act gives them broad authority to protect the safety of the nation's citizens.

The chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Sen. Pat Roberts, R-Kan., would not confirm the existence of the program. In a statement, he said, I can say generally, however, that our subcommittee has been fully briefed on all aspects of the Terrorist Surveillance Program. ... I remain convinced that the program authorized by the president is lawful and absolutely necessary to protect this nation from future attacks.

The chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Rep. Pete Hoekstra, R-Mich., declined to comment.

One company differs

One major telecommunications company declined to participate in the program: Qwest.

According to sources familiar with the events, Qwest's CEO at the time, Joe Nacchio, was deeply troubled by the NSA's assertion that Qwest didn't need a court order � or approval under FISA � to proceed. Adding to the tension, Qwest was unclear about who, exactly, would have access to its customers' information and how that information might be used.

Financial implications were also a concern, the sources said. Carriers that illegally divulge calling information can be subjected to heavy fines. The NSA was asking Qwest to turn over millions of records. The fines, in the aggregate, could have been substantial.

The NSA told Qwest that other government agencies, including the FBI, CIA and DEA, also might have access to the database, the sources said. As a matter of practice, the NSA regularly shares its information � known as product in intelligence circles � with other intelligence groups. Even so, Qwest's lawyers were troubled by the expansiveness of the NSA request, the sources said.

The NSA, which needed Qwest's participation to completely cover the country, pushed back hard.

Trying to put pressure on Qwest, NSA representatives pointedly told Qwest that it was the lone holdout among the big telecommunications companies. It also tried appealing to Qwest's patriotic side: In one meeting, an NSA representative suggested that Qwest's refusal to contribute to the database could compromise national security, one person recalled.

In addition, the agency suggested that Qwest's foot-dragging might affect its ability to get future classified work with the government. Like other big telecommunications companies, Qwest already had classified contracts and hoped to get more.

Unable to get comfortable with what NSA was proposing, Qwest's lawyers asked NSA to take its proposal to the FISA court. According to the sources, the agency refused.

The NSA's explanation did little to satisfy Qwest's lawyers. They told (Qwest) they didn't want to do that because FISA might not agree with them, one person recalled. For similar reasons, this person said, NSA rejected Qwest's suggestion of getting a letter of authorization from the U.S. attorney general's office. A second person confirmed this version of events.

In June 2002, Nacchio resigned amid allegations that he had misled investors about Qwest's financial health. But Qwest's legal questions about the NSA request remained.

Unable to reach agreement, Nacchio's successor, Richard Notebaert, finally pulled the plug on the NSA talks in late 2004, the sources said.

Contributing: John Diamond
Posted 5/10/2006 11:16 PM ET

Wow. That is quite a list
you've got there. It sounds like you would be happiest in another country and I am not being a smart aleck here. There are countries where your list is pretty much real life. Cuba, Equador, Paraguay, Uruguay to name a few. I know a man who just moved to Equador and he is quite happy. He went for many of the reasons you state. He really just wanted to be left alone. Besides, it is beautiful there...the Gallapagos Islands...the best mangoes in the world. I have given a lot of thought to moving out of the U.S. for a time anyway to try to gain some perspective. Just a thought.

P.S. I don't have a list

of bottom feeders. In this world of ever worsening crises, misery, pain, hunger, intolerance, etc., I am trying more and more to avoid what I consider to be the ugliness that I cab avoid; meaning I don't have to listen to, I don't have to read, etc. There is enough sadness that I cannot turn my back on but I can turn my back on bottom feeders.

List what he's done, please

Sean Hannity has been asking people all over the place, to no avail. I'm guessing you saw Newt & that NBC guy, who couldn't provide an answer?

At least you posed your piece in a respectful tone. The tone on this board has become so obnoxious that I could be in DailyKos Land and not even know the difference.

Sally Quinn even went on O'Reilly Factoid to admit she had been wrong about Sarah. That's impressive.

Acc. to your list......
almost everybody is then a natural-born-citizen.
Then no need to change the constitution.
Thank you for proving again that Obama is a natural-born American citizen.
I hope that the Republicans put this issue FINALLY to rest.

Add another one to the list...sm

Hurt by competition from Best Buy Co. and Wal-Mart Stores Inc. and by pressure from the downturn in the economy that led shoppers to cut back on discretionary purchases, the 59-year old Circuit City Stores Inc. on Monday filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.

Circuit City's move came a week after the company, suffering from declining sales, traffic and cash, said that it planned to shut 155 U.S. underperforming stores and cut 7,300 jobs in a last-ditch effort to stay afloat.

Click link below for more info....................

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/circuit-city-files-chapter-11/story.aspx?guid=%7BD9CB8DE9-943F-4C3F-A007-24081B471F20%7D&dist=msr_5

Do you really want the list...(sm)

of broken promises from Bush? He had 8 years to get his done, and failed miserably. Obama has had what....3 whole days and you already want to crucify him? For all the whining you guys did about kool-aid drinkers thinking Obama is God, you seem to be the ones expecting miracles.

Here is a list.

Democrats and their affairs.

John F. Kennedy: widely known to have had many extramarital affairs while President - including one with Marylin Monroe.

William Jefferson Clinton- Gennifer Flowersgate - Paula Jonesgate- The Lewinsky Affair - Perjury and Jobs for Lewinskygate - Kathleen Willeygate - Jaunita Broaddrick Gate

John Edwards: Ex-Democrat presidential candidate and Senator- admitted to having an extramarital affair during his campaign for president while his wife was suffering from brast cancer.

Reverand Jesse Jackson: Ex-Democrat presidential candidate admitted in 2001 to having an extramarital affair and fathering a child out of wedlock.

Barney Frank: U.S. Representative from Massachusetts. Admitted to having paid Stephen L. Gobie, a male prostitute, for sex and subsequently hiring Gobie as his personal assistant. Gobie used the congressman's Washington apartment for prostitution. A move to expel Frank from the House of Representatives failed and a motion to censure him failed.

Colorado Sen. Gary Hart: He was considered the front-runner for the 1988 Democratic presidential nomination until the press uncovered his extramarital affair with 29-year-old model Donna Rice. He dropped out of the race a week later.

New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer: Democrat - New York governor - resigned from office after being tied to a prostitution ring and having affairs with prostitutes..

New Jersey Gov. James McGreevey: McGreevey resigned three months after admitting in 2004 that he had had an extramarital affair with a male employee.

Modesto Rep. Gary Condit: Authorities revealed Condit had an extramarital affair in 2001 with intern Chandra Levy, who had disappeared. In 2002, he lost a primary election, and Levy's remains were found in a Washington park. The case is still unsolved.

Florida U.S. Rep. Tim Mahoney: admitted he had an affair with an aide and it is reported paid her $121,000 to keep her quiet and avoid a sexual harassment lawsuit.

Henry G. Cisneros: Former housing secretary under Bill Clinton pleaded guilty to a single misdemeanor charge of lying to the FBI about money he paid to a former mistress.

Rep. Mel Reynolds: of Illinois was convicted in 1995 of sexual assault against a 16-year-old girl- sentenced to five years in prison. President Bill Clinton pardoned him before leaving office.

Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick: Text messages indicate he had an extramarital affair with his chief of staff.

San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom: The mayor admitted an extramarital affair in 2007 with the wife of his former deputy chief of staff.

Marion Barry: Democrat - mayor of Washington, D.C., from 1979 to 1991 and again from 1995 to 1999. Convicted of cocaine possession after being caught on videotape smoking crack cocaine ith a longtime female friend.

Gov. David A. Paterson acknowledged Monday having extramarital affairs during a period in their 15-year marriage.

Gerry Eastman Studds - U.S. Representative from Massachusetts from 1973 to 1997. The first openly gay member of Congress. Censured by the House of Representatives for having sexual relations with a teenage House page.

Former New York Rep. Fred Richmond: arrested in 1978 for soliciting sex from a 16-year-old boy. He remained in Congress and won re-election, but resigned in 1982 after pleading guilty to tax evasion and drug possession.

Jerry Springer - Democrat - Resigned from Cincinnati City Council in 1974 after admitting to paying a prostitute with a personal check, which was found in a police raid on a massage parlor.

Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa: Announced he had a 2007 extramarital affair with a television reporter covering City Hall. He has filed for divorce from his wife, and remains in office.

David Giles: Candidate for U.S. Representative from Washington in 1986 and 1990. Convicted in June 2000 of child rape.

Neil Goldschmidt: Oregon governor. Admitted to having an illegal sexual relationship with a 14-year-old teenager while he was serving as Mayor of Portland.

Kentucky Governor Paul Patton: political career fell apart after allegations he retaliated against an ex-mistress' business when she ended the affair.

Ohio Rep. Wayne Hays: Rresigned from Congress in 1976 after his mistress, Elizabeth Ray, said he hired her as part of his staff.

Washington Sen. Brock Adams: abandoned a reelection campaign in 1992 amid numerous allegations from women of drugging, assault and rape.

West Virginia Governor Bob Wise: admitted to an extramarital affair;

Allan Turner Howe: U.S. Representative from Utah from 1975 to 1977. Arrested for soliciting a policewoman posing as a prostitute.

Joseph Waggonner Jr.: U.S. Representative from Louisiana from 1961 to 1979. Arrested in Washington, D.C. for soliciting a policewoman posing as a prostitute.

I'm sure there are many pubs that have had affairs as well but I couldn't find an actual list.