Germany, who killed millions of Jews wants to prosecute Rumsfeld.

That makes sense. 

• Germany seek charges against Rumsfeld for prison abuse sm - LVMT
  • Germany, who killed millions of Jews wants to prosecute Rumsfeld. - Lydia
    • Germany didn't kill - EXMQ MT
      • You must not watch much on the History channel. sm - Brunson

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Friday, Nov. 10, 2006
Exclusive: Charges Sought Against Rumsfeld Over Prison Abuse
A lawsuit in Germany will seek a criminal prosecution of the outgoing Defense Secretary and other U.S. officials for their alleged role in abuses at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo
By ADAM ZAGORIN

Just days after his resignation, former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is about to face more repercussions for his involvement in the troubled wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. New legal documents, to be filed next week with Germany's top prosecutor, will seek a criminal investigation and prosecution of Rumsfeld, along with Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, former CIA director George Tenet and other senior U.S. civilian and military officers, for their alleged roles in abuses committed at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison and at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

The plaintiffs in the case include 11 Iraqis who were prisoners at Abu Ghraib, as well as Mohammad al-Qahtani, a Saudi held at Guantanamo, whom the U.S. has identified as the so-called 20th hijacker and a would-be participant in the 9/11 hijackings. As TIME first reported in June 2005, Qahtani underwent a special interrogation plan, personally approved by Rumsfeld, which the U.S. says produced valuable intelligence. But to obtain it, according to the log of his interrogation and government reports, Qahtani was subjected to forced nudity, sexual humiliation, religious humiliation, prolonged stress positions, sleep deprivation and other controversial interrogation techniques.

Lawyers for the plaintiffs say that one of the witnesses who will testify on their behalf is former Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, the one-time commander of all U.S. military prisons in Iraq. Karpinski — who the lawyers say will be in Germany next week to publicly address her accusations in the case — has issued a written statement to accompany the legal filing, which says, in part: It was clear the knowledge and responsibility [for what happened at Abu Ghraib] goes all the way to the top of the chain of command to the Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld .

A spokesperson for the Pentagon told TIME there would be no comment since the case has not yet been filed.

Along with Rumsfeld, Gonzales and Tenet, the other defendants in the case are Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence Stephen Cambone; former assistant attorney general Jay Bybee; former deputy assisant attorney general John Yoo; General Counsel for the Department of Defense William James Haynes II; and David S. Addington, Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff. Senior military officers named in the filing are General Ricardo Sanchez, the former top Army official in Iraq; Gen. Geoffrey Miller, the former commander of Guantanamo; senior Iraq commander, Major General Walter Wojdakowski; and Col. Thomas Pappas, the one-time head of military intelligence at Abu Ghraib.

Germany was chosen for the court filing because German law provides universal jurisdiction allowing for the prosecution of war crimes and related offenses that take place anywhere in the world. Indeed, a similar, but narrower, legal action was brought in Germany in 2004, which also sought the prosecution of Rumsfeld. The case provoked an angry response from Pentagon, and Rumsfeld himself was reportedly upset. Rumsfeld's spokesman at the time, Lawrence DiRita, called the case a a big, big problem. U.S. officials made clear the case could adversely impact U.S.-Germany relations, and Rumsfeld indicated he would not attend a major security conference in Munich, where he was scheduled to be the keynote speaker, unless Germany disposed of the case. The day before the conference, a German prosecutor announced he would not pursue the matter, saying there was no indication that U.S. authorities and courts would not deal with allegations in the complaint.

In bringing the new case, however, the plaintiffs argue that circumstances have changed in two important ways. Rumsfeld's resignation, they say, means that the former Defense Secretary will lose the legal immunity usually accorded high government officials. Moreover, the plaintiffs argue that the German prosecutor's reasoning for rejecting the previous case — that U.S. authorities were dealing with the issue — has been proven wrong.

The utter and complete failure of U.S. authorities to take any action to investigate high-level involvement in the torture program could not be clearer, says Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional Rights, a U.S.-based non-profit helping to bring the legal action in Germany. He also notes that the Military Commissions Act, a law passed by Congress earlier this year, effectively blocks prosecution in the U.S. of those involved in detention and interrogation abuses of foreigners held abroad in American custody going to back to Sept. 11, 2001. As a result, Ratner contends, the legal arguments underlying the German prosecutor's previous inaction no longer hold up.

Whatever the legal merits of the case, it is the latest example of efforts in Western Europe by critics of U.S. tactics in the war on terror to call those involved to account in court. In Germany, investigations are under way in parliament concerning cooperation between the CIA and German intelligence on rendition — the kidnapping of suspected terrorists and their removal to third countries for interrogation. Other legal inquiries involving rendition are under way in both Italy and Spain.

U.S. officials have long feared that legal proceedings against war criminals could be used to settle political scores. In 1998, for example, former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet — whose military coup was supported by the Nixon administration — was arrested in the U.K. and held for 16 months in an extradition battle led by a Spanish magistrate seeking to charge him with war crimes. He was ultimately released and returned to Chile. More recently, a Belgian court tried to bring charges against then Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon for alleged crimes against Palestinians.

For its part, the Bush Administration has rejected adherence to the International Criminal Court (ICC) on grounds that it could be used to unjustly prosecute U.S. officials. The ICC is the first permanent tribunal established to prosecute war crimes, genocide and other crimes against humanity.

The part about Rumsfeld was actually the only part I disagreed with her about because if Rummy wasn't doing exactly what Bush wanted, Bush would have fired him a long time ago.  I believe it's Bush's policies that are the problem.  If he fires Rummy, he will only hire someone else that he can hide behind and let take the heat for his failed war scheme. 

I loved the pig comment, too.  LoL

One of Keith's best moments, IMO.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/

Rumsfeld is full of history (among other substances), but he neglected to share this piece of history with the American majority he criticized.

(I suggest Breaking Up Is Hard To Do as the perfect background music for this.) 

It may be time for the US to close its military bases in Germany and shift them to Poland and the new East European democracies. They are far better allies and understand the importance of freedom and liberty.

The guy has a great audience and my only fear was he would take on the black agenda when our country if falling apart - There is so much to do. 

Yeah, give the man a stage that at least is proportionate to foreign countries' stage given to an American politician.  Geesh.  

I didn't see crowds gather for anyone else.  When a crowd that size gathers for a person, they can have any darn stage set they want.  As they deserved it. 

Seems that theybarely have a grasp on DC politics, let alone US imperatives abroad and challenges that America faces outside its borders.  They scoff at American traditions such as diplomacy, alliance, common interests and initiatives aimed at real solutions for fascist dictatorships, human rights abuse, global poverty and terrorism.  BTW, though we may have our own garden of home-grown terrorists, most terrorists live abroad.  The ethnocentric jingoism  expressed in the "America, love it of leave it/hate it and leave it" crowd and the imperial aspirations of their party in its attempts to disregard cultural differences, bomb nations into democracy and turn countries of the world into pitstops for the Americans to make on their resource raping rampages is exactly the kind of behavior that empowers terrorist worldviews to attract followers, strengthens their resolve and emboldens them to carry out their terrorist acts of war. 

We actually DO need to take it to Germany and to all UN/NATO countries, turn a new page on our approaches and come up with new solutions, plans well understood by Obama and brilliantly articulated in his plans for diplomacy and policies on the war on terror.  Biden grocs these concepts.  Mccain, same old same old.  Palin doesn't do foreign policy.  The party obvoiusly does not even recognize the need for it.  

How do you think Jews feel when Obama shuns The Holocaust.  Did their white skin give them a pass in any way before they were thrown en mass into those ovens?  It wasn't right then, either.  None of it is.

Just something to think about. 

is absolutely correct.  What was posted previously:  Wright said, according to Virginia's Daily Press. "They will not let him ... talk to somebody who calls a spade what it is." 

What was said:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfDeRY7IgcQ

Please note what was left out (replaced with "...").  He's not just slamming Jews in general.  He's talking about the influence of the Jewish vote in this country (which is a problem).

"Ethnic cleansing is going on in Gaza. Ethnic cleansing of the Zionist is a sin and a crime against humanity, and they don't want Barack talking like that because that's anti-Israel," Wright said. 

This is also true.  The man is doing nothing more than speaking the truth and getting harrassed for it.

are calling Obama and saying NO to his stimulus package.  I guess all his fearmongering didn't get to them!  Where are all those people who are so helpless that only Obama and his stooges can help them?   White House phone lines don't seem to correlate with his thoughts.  Interesting!   

You're right Obama, they didn't send you there to do the same thing OR to screw them over, both of which you are doing......over worse!

...slave wages overseas (you know, like MTSOs do.)

I don't understand why you condone corporate welfare/tax cheaters.  Not surprised -- just don't understand.

You described with great candor and honesty the most extreme side of your religion, and I appreciate the glimpse into a life that I otherwise didn't know existed.

I think many of us have experience with extremes.  They're usually dirty little secrets that most people won't admit.  Maybe it's time that some of them come out into the open.  You've been open enough to describe some aspects of your personal life (which took a lot of courage in THIS arena).  You've also triggered some not to good memories in my life.

I remember growing up in a small town as a child with my parents, my friends' parents, all my relatives (from different little towns in different states), ALL Christians and ALL HATING Jews.  They blamed the liberal media on the Jews who controlled it.  (I've heard this allegation again recently, in the last couple years, as well, so nobody can convince me that Christians suddenly love Jews.)  If anything could make the veins in their neck pop out, it was th emention of the money the U.S. gave to Israel.  The John Birch Society and Barry Goldwater were icons in my home.  My father even voted once for George Wallace for president.

If a prominent Jew in my little town was a successful attorney, doctor or banker, they were referred to as such with (fill in the blank) derogatory terms preceding the Jew occupation. Jew and blacks.  They received equal condemnation.

My father was a terrible bigot and racist.  My cousin had a black POODLE that my dad wouldn't even permit in the house.  He paid school tuition for another school during my first two years in school so I wouldn't have to go to the school less than a mile away from me because the students were 99% black.  Then he couldn't afford it any more, and I was sent to the closer school.

Will never forget one Saturday when I was in third grade, going downtown with my parents for the day and seeing one of my classmates with her family, who we passed on the street.  We both smiled at each other and said hello.  My father SCREAMED at me in front of my classmate and her family, telling me I wasn't allowed to speak to _____.  I remember feeling humiliated beyond belief, and that hurt even more than the beating I got with his belt when we got home.  The embarrassment lasted a lot longer than the welts on my legs from that beating.  Whatever lesson he was trying to teach me backfired because all I could think of was how nice my schoolmate was and how STUPID and HATEFUL he acted.

When I was a teenager, I worked for the local radio station and became very friendly with the news director (a JEW).  He used to get me involved in all different aspects of the station that had nothing to do with my job.  (He even talked me into doing a commercial.)  If he had been a Jewish classmate of mine who I had been hanging out with, I would have been punished yet again.  Instead, my mom thought it was so cool because this guy was basically a celebrity who was on the radio daily.  I learned the true meaning of hypocrite very early on in my life.

In my mid 20s, I went to work for a Jewish attorney in my small town.  Never, ever, EVER was I treated so well at a job with bonuses and raises, etc.  Gorgeous bachelor to boot!  LOL.  We became very good friends and sometimes would have a drink after work together and just talk.  I remember once he told me that I was the only girlfriend he ever had.  When I asked him what he meant, he said Well, you're a girl, and you're my friend.  LOL. 

My daughter was in grade school at the time (ironically at the very same school I mentioned above), and every afternoon, I would leave the office to pick her up from school and bring her back to the office so she could be safe and with me until my workday ended.  This wasn't my idea.  It was HIS.  I remember once when my birthday was on a weekend, he called me with a work emergency and asked me if I could go to the big city (about an hour away where he lived and had another office) to help with some work. He told me to bring my daughter who could stay with his mom and watch wrestling on their big screen TV while I worked.  (My daughter and his mom both believed it was real, and they were good buddies.)  The whole thing was a rouse just to get us there.  He surprised us with a weekend stay at the plushest hotel there, room service, movies, ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that we wanted, and he paid for it.

While I worked for him, my beloved aunt died.  She truly was a Christian, was the organist at church, and most importantly, lived her life in a loving way (unfortunately, not a hereditary trait in my family). She had named me as co-owner on a certificate of deposit.  My Christian aunts, her sisters and the executors of her estate, refused to give it to me.  I'll never forget going to my aunt's house at their request, only to have them all sitting like some kind of posse on the front porch, SCREAMING at me for everyone to hear, telling me I'd never get it, and telling me to go run to my ***damn Jew lawyer.  I finally did have to hire a lawyer, but it wasn't him.  I was too ashamed of my family to involve him in this.  They were finally forced to turn it over to me about a year later, but they never gave me my mother's wedding gown, which I had requested and which had always been stored at my aunt's house.  I had wanted to give it to my daughter for her wedding, but I never saw it again.  What wonderful Christians.

I refuse to believe that my small town was the only one in America with such wonderful Christian values, and I lived in the north.  It's even worse in some areas of the south.  From reading these boards, it's obvious that many of today's Christians are driven by extreme gutteral hatred, so I'm VERY surprised to suddenly see that they're so sympathetic to Jews.  I don't believe for one second that they have an iota of respect for Jews -- either the ethnic group or the religion.  What I do believe is that they're only thinking of the LOCATION of Israel and how it affects THEIR religion.  Maybe I wouldn't feel that way if the hatred and intolerance and lies of some of these posters wasn't so obvious and if they didn't follow so closely the policies of Bush that do nothing but take us back into the 1950s (as Roberts would like to do, particularly with women).  So many of these people remind me of the mentality I experienced in my childhood, and I believe it's alive and well today.  The only difference they're wolves in sheeps' clothing today because they can no longer publicly say the things that I heard growing up and can only say these things in private when they're with their kind.  In my adult life still, some misread me and think I'm one of them.  It still exists.  It's alive and well in America.

This sudden love of Israel and Jews is about the most disingenuous thing I've ever seen come from loving, tolerant Christians.

The can go ahead and flame away.  Wrap themselves in the Bible and the American flag and destroy, deny and lie.  That's how some American Christians communicate today, from Bush all the way down, down, DOWN to some posters on these boards.  I must have somehow missed the day when God decided to condone blatant lying.  I believe that's morally wrong.  But what do I know about values?  I'm a liberal.

NO ONE WHO TALKS ABOUT PERFECTING JEWS IS ENTERTAINING..DO YOU UNDERSTAND??

Good grief!  Is there anything else that hurts your feelings?  Just let us know so we can walk on eggshells for you. 

http://www.reuters.com/article/bankingfinancial-SP/idUSN0642989720071107

http://www.nndb.com/people/222/000163730/