I agree with the scenario you speak of.
Posted By: LL on 2006-07-06
In Reply to: Is the new legislature talking about stem cells of aborted fetuses?...sm - Democrat
but there is also talk of growing fetuses for harvesting. I do not agree with that.
Complete Discussion Below:  marks the location of current message within thread
The messages you are viewing
are archived/old.
To view latest messages and participate in discussions, select
the boards given in left menu
Other related messages found in our database
Okie dokie. We agree to disagree. Someone should speak for the babies...
and I would be one of those. Because I think they deserve a shot at life just like you do. You don't. Your prerogative.
Another possible scenario
Hi Lurker,
Heard an interesting alternate theory today on Air America - had to do with Judith Miller being angry at Joe Wilson for printing his What I Didn't Find in Africa article in the NYT that seemed to make a fool out of her and what she was claiming all along. So she calls up her contacts at the CIA and demands to know, who is this fool? She finds out who it is,digs and learns who his wife is, and SHE tells Scooter Libby and everyone else including Rove in hopes of getting them to cover her butt by publicly denouncing Wilson and outing his wife, thereby exacting her revenge as well as giving the WH the spin it needed to discredit Wilson's (absolutely accurate) testimony.
Seeing as Scooter Libby gave JM permission months ago to testify, it makes sense that JM may have been the one who actively pursued the Plame outing, which just happened to synchronize perfectly with the BushCo's need to squash Wilson's findings. Libby doesn't have anything to fear in this case since JM would have been the one to tell HIM about Plame's status, not the other way around.
It was an interesting way of looking at it that I hadn't thought about before - what do you think?
I was using the scenario as an example of sm
'facts', not as it related to your post. Since we invaded Iraq, we have not had a terror attack on the United States. Do you see a correlation there or is this just a coincidence. Also, knowing the history of Islam, do you really think the fires needed stoking in that regard to hate us more? Exactly what led up to the escalating terror attacks against the United States? What was the final goal and would it have ended with 9/11. I think not. Those fires don't need stoking. They have been burning since 500 years after the birth of Christ. I don't for a moment believe that the invasion of Iraq all of a sudden made them hate us. Gaddafi said, during Reagan's presidency, that he would not rest until every American was dead in his bed. Haven't heard a peep out of him since Reagan bombed him.
As many of us have. So the scenario described in the OP
to you if it were Palin or McCain? Can you at least acknowledge the possibility that there may have been other considerations beyond the campaign, as suggested?
Here's the scenario in my city
I've been keeping up with what happens to people who actually shoot people in their house or on their property in my area. The majority of the shooters have been store clerks who are tired of being victims. However, there have been several home invasions in the last year where the owner has shot the intruder. Just a few weeks ago a man saw another man breaking into his backyard storage building, and he shot the guy from his house. The subject fled and then wrecked his car about a mile from the break in. When all was said and done the owner was not charged eventhough he shot the man eventhough the man never entered his living space.
As far as I know none of the store clerks or home owners have been charged in the last year (at least that is what the media reports).
Eventhough I believe in gun ownership and defending your property and home I think the recent law passed in Florida where you can shoot anyone who is threatening you (anywhere) is a little broad and I think will be used to get criminals off, because all they have to say is I felt threatened so I shot the dude. I think though when somebody comes on your property then you should be able to take any action to defend yourself within reason. Now, this shouldn't be an excuse for shooting your neighbor because they are piling leaves on your property etc. Common sense should rule, and every case should be judged individually on the circumstances surrounding the incident.
I agree with you completely about the child criminal sentencing aspects. Personally, I don't think these monsters should live but at the very least they should be castrated....seems harsh but its the only way to *neuter* the animal that lives inside these monsters.
Visualize this scenario.
Can You Imagine George Bush by Another Name? |
by Beth Quinn |
|
There is a courtroom scene in the movie A Time to Kill that comes to mind when I hear Bush fans blindly defend their president.
The movie is about the black father of a little girl who is raped, beaten and thrown off a bridge by two white men in Mississippi. Knowing that justice won't be served for a black child, her father kills her attackers and goes on trial for murder.
The scene that comes to mind these crazy days is this:
The defense attorney knows this heartbroken father is facing an all-white jury. And this jury will be incapable of putting themselves in the shoes of a black man.
So the lawyer asks them to close their eyes as he describes in excruciating detail the attack the little girl endured. Can you see it? he asks. Can you see her being tortured? And then he tells them: Now imagine she was white.
It is a similar use of imagination that I would ask the blind faithful in Bush's camp to try.
Please, just close your eyes for a moment as I catalog the abuses George Bush has committed against our country. And then imagine he is Bill Clinton, a man you're predisposed to hate - and tell me you would still defend those actions.
When you consider that George Bush declared war in Iraq based on a lie, close your eyes and imagine it was Bill Clinton who had told that lie. Keep your eyes closed and picture it. In fairness and honesty, would you defend him?
When you consider that George Bush has been secretly and illegally spying on Americans, close your eyes and concentrate. Picture how you would react if it were Clinton wiretapping our phones. Would you defend him?
When you consider that George Bush partied for days at his Texas ranch while New Orleans was dying, close your eyes and picture Clinton partying on Martha's Vineyard. Can you see it? Can you imagine Clinton ignoring the plight of thousands of homeless and dying? Would you defend him?
When you consider that George Bush continues to promote the lie that we do not torture even as he declares the right to violate McCain's amendment barring torture, squeeze your eyes tight and picture it. Can you see Clinton defying the Geneva Convention and Congress? Would you defend him?
When you consider that George Bush has paid journalists to promote his propaganda, close your eyes and imagine Clinton buying off the Fourth Estate. Would you like that? Would you defend him?
When you consider that George Bush continues to send our young men and women into danger in Iraq without protective armor, then hides their coffins from the cameras when they are sent home dead, close your eyes and imagine Clinton doing such a thing. Is this a good thing? Would you defend him?
In the movie, the jurors' collective eyes pop open when the defense lawyer asks them to imagine the little victim was white. It's clear they have seen the light and justice will be done.
In real life, blind allegiance is no better than blind hatred. Both spring from fear and ignorance. It would be gratifying if the Bush defenders were to open their own eyes to see this president for what he really is.
George Bush, by any name, is nothing more than a power-mad liar.
There are 1,091 days 'til Inauguration 2009.
### |
 Printer Friendly Version  E-Mail This Article |
|
|
|
FAIR USE NOTICE |
Once case scenario that happens sm
One case scenario that happens regarding employed people getting health insurance through their employers is this. Unfortunately recessions happen. A covered person is laid off. Yes, they can continue coverage through COBRA. Some recessions are long lasting, the laid off person cannot find employment for months or longer. The bills meanwhile are racking up, if there are any savings it not so slowly gets eaten up, and the COBRA coverage is not cheap, to the tune of $600.00 a month or more. That person may very well want to hold onto their coverage but simply cannot. They have to drop the coverage. Hopefully this person eventually is able to get another job that also has health insurance benefits. They then have to go through another pre-existing condition waiting period as they had to drop their insurance and therefore lost their continuous coverage provision. Maybe that person falls seriously ill during that period with some pre-existing condition, and ...financially ruined for the rest of their life as a result..through no fault of their own.
Yes, there are people who are able to afford health insurance but have a devil may care attitude...until they become ill, but there are many other scenarios that are occurring as well, and occurring more frequently.
Another problem is due to the high cost of health insurance fewer and fewer employers are even offering benefits, which leaves working people to attempt to secure individual policies, and in that market anyone can be denied coverage. It does not even have to be a "major" health condition. Heath insurance companies can, and do, deny people coverage due to "run of the mill" problems such as a little hypothyroidism, or that they broke a few bones as a kid while growing up.
I certainly don't have the answers, but tis rather a mess.
In the scenario that you mention
using Hitler....Hitler was the terrorist. The Nazis were the terrorists. They were exterminating the Jews because of race. They had no other reason other than they didn't like them.
You cannot compare what we are doing to what Hitler did. The rendition and the assassination of key terrorist members saves innocent lives where Hitler did nothing but destroy innocent lives.
I do not see us lining up all Muslims and exterminating them, sending them to concentration camps, etc. We are going after extremists who would love nothing more than to exterminate us.
I highly doubt that if we were taken over by terrorists or you were in a building that they were planning on bombing....the fact that you disagree with our treatment towards terrorist prisoners will mean absolutely nothing to them. They will still blow you up or cut your head off. These are not people that you can talk to civilly or change their mind. They are on a mission to exterminate infidels....that includes you and me and our family and friends. So seriously....think about that the next time you want to set them free or be nice to them.
So, in a best case scenario for the republicans
One would have to wonder how likely it is that these frivolous lawsuits can succeed in challenging the DNC, the Secretary of State and the voters' popular mandate in the aftermath of an election, ESPECIALLY in view of the dire circumstances requiring immediate attention with regard to the economy. If the republicans cannot successfully manipulate voter turn-out through their concerted efforts to suppress democratic votes, cry foul, challenge the election, throw it into months of uncertainty and THEN, on top of it all, push for impeachment proceedings...what will they accomplish? Joe Biden will be president? Supermajority will remain seated? Really. Where do they think they are going with all this? Do they think that after opposing popular mandate, they can call for new elections that will succeed in another republican revolution? Absurd.
Do you want him to lie or make up some scenario that is not true?
If he were to get up there and say we are okay, things are wonderful, tomorrow when you wake up the world as you knew it is going to be back to normal?
I don't know what ya'll want from him. You got one set of people saying he ain't doing enough, one set saying he is doing too much, one set saying he is all doom/gloom, another set condemning him because he says we can change the way things are -
My goodness, what can he do right?
The picture that you make up whatever scenario you want?
And try to pass it off as truth.
Seems to me that you and most of the Republicans on here are the whiners. Get over it. We have another 7-1/2 years with this president. There are a HUGE MAJORITY of us who LIKE him. So sorry your party is in tatters and doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hades of ever getting elected in my lifetime.
Best case scenario, 1 million evacuees.
110 residents from Greater Houston DIED ON THE ROAD during evacuation for Hurricane Rita from Houston 3 years ago.
Well I can only speak on what I saw.
I didn't see a post about Nan being old and to die in hell, so pardon me on that.
And I didn't say that you had left before. Reread the post. I was walking about Nan having left before basically, and said she wasn't coming back.
Odd, that you should speak for gt SM
One might think she doesn't have a voice of her own. Or one might think other things.
Sure, but I can't speak for the others. nm
.
So now you speak for God. Wow, gt. sm
You are more of an elitist pig than I thought possible. But I mean that in a good way. Am I fried now?
So now you speak for God.
That was only one of the sites. And God forbid people are brought to Christ.
SO WHAT??!! WHERE DOES IT SAY SHE CAN'T SPEAK?!
Nobody told her she doesn't have the right to speak.
That's quite a stretch even for YOU, MT. 
as we speak
POTUS is lamenting the state of government -- of course it is all the fault of Congress. He tries and tries but "they" prevent any movement. Poor chimpie.
I have a right to speak
out about the incompetency of the supposed "leader" of the free world. Each episode of ignorance, distortion of facts, and deception needs to be brought into the light and examined repeatedly. It is cumulative. I brush aside the label of "bush bashing" as another neocon attempt to frame the issue. I will continue to post as I wish and to refuse to engage in discussion with anyone whose purpose is simply to gain attention, even if negative. I do feel compassion for those so abused and ignored throughout life that they will take any acknowledgement as life-affirming, but I do not take it upon myself to feed their insatiable desire to be noticed. I am encouraged by the split in the repub party into small groups of supporters, but the dems have got this pres election in the bag anyway not only due to their fresh, positive approach but the self-destruction of the repubs by their own arrogance and corruption.
I can only speak to myself....
but I pray concerning basically every decision I make. Not because I think the decision is God's will, but that whatever His will will be done. I saw the same clip (I think) and I think that is what Palin meant, not that the pipeline itself was specifically God's will, but to pray for the success of the venture, ask that it go well, but in the end, God's will be done. God is very real to us and praying is just communicating with him. Talking to him. It is a relationship, like with a dear friend. That is the best short description I can give. This is from my experience only. Others may not have the same experience.
speak for yourself
x
Speak for yourself
I have briefly (mercifully) lived in an fabulous neighborhood consisting of a bunch of old guys who only cared about golf and their wives who had faces stretched back to their spine and stapled. It was really very boring. Give me the rich vibrancy of a middle-class neighborhood any day. Just my opinion!
did he ever speak out against it at all? nm
x
sorry to say, he is on Fox as we speak
with all their promises, which sound just great, but who is going to pay for all these great promises?
Perhaps you would like to speak to.....sm
letters that are being sent to pastors of churches in our area (and maybe nationwide, I haven't researched it yet) that tells them if they mention anything political in the pulpit, then their church will lose its tax-exempt status. While I don't go for politics in the pulpit, I also don't go for the government telling pastors what they can and cannot preach about.
It would seem to me that one side is just as guilty of "crossing party lines" as the other.
Once again, you know not what you speak.....
Indonesian lawyer DOES give the parent the right to renounce the child's citizenship to another country. The U.S. does happen to recognize this with Indonesia, so it was done and the papers were there to prove it. Only when Obama turns of age could he RENOUNCE his citizenship with Indonesia, which he has not done.
The attorney I speak of is in New York and has been doing this for over 30 years. He deals with foreign adoptions every day and each country has its own red tape and laws. Indonesia is one he has spoken of many times with regards to Obama and those attorneys who have dealt one-on-one with Indonesian law know this.
You seem to belive all countries recognize the United States.....they don't. BTW, during the time Obama was in Indonesia and adopted by his stepfather, the laws were clear that no one could go to school in Indonesia unless they were an Indonesian citizen, i.e., Obama.
And, yes, it does matter what Indonesian law says because Obama is Indonesian by adoption. He has NO papers proving his U.S. citizenship in the first place but he does have papers proving INdonesian citizenship, of which he has not renounced as of today.
Matter of fact, the only papers he has proving ANY citizenship is that of Indonesia and Kenya, when his father was alive.
Sorry to disappoint ya......
Maybe you should just speak for yourself...(sm)
instead of assuming that everyone is like you.
The whole 9/11 is being rewritten even as we speak. SM
A lot of new information coming out and guess what!!!! It does not point out, as you and others have said ont his board before, that Bush had anything to do with it. I am not sure what you hissy fit throwers are gonna do about that. By the way, I think this post serves as a classic example of what is wrong with the Democratic party of today. Anti-Americanism in its pure form. Michael Moore would be so PROUD of you!
You do not speak the truth, either
The truth is different for different folks. What about all the service men and women who 100 percent support the anti-war protests? Do they DARE to speak?
You may not realize it but there are MANY ex-military and current military who DO NOT SUPPORT THIS WAR!!! You need to look beyond what you only want to see.
And if being anti-American means to oppose what is morally wrong, well....I will say no more.
Please do not claim that you support our troops. That is not the truth either. You support the current administration's war/invasion plan, but not the troops.
You speak to an Army mom this way. Says a lot about you. nm
Don't tell her she doesn't have a right to speak
If Cindy Sheehan had the right to spew her feelings Army Mom has that right too. Works both ways as bad as you HATE it...
They told her she did not have a right to speak and a lot of other
pretty awful things as well, Democrat. I am sorry you are so blinded by the hatred that was shown to this poster. Besides, she never said she spoke for everyone.
Army mom, you don't speak for all.
You have a right to voice your opinion and support whom you will. You do not have any more right than the next person to speak for all the troops. At the very moment you having your how DARE you moment, you yourself are attempting to speak for all of them. I know for a fact you are wrong in doing this because I read military message boards frequently and there is no one view represented on them. In fact the majority at this time are anti-Bush and anti-Iraq war. If you don't believe me go and read them yourself.
Isn't it time you stopped lecturing others for wanting to bring the military home from a mission they can't possibly win by any measure of the word and put your outrage to work where it will actually save lives? They can't win. I'm sorry. They could fight until 2020 and all they will do is die. They are not accomplishing anything. It is not their fault! It was the mission itself that was a losing proposition from the start and for that they can't be blamed, they are just doing their jobs as they were trained to do and for that we admire them. But they can't win. There is nothing TO win. There isn't any shame in that. We have bad leaders who did no planning, a bunch of war-avoiding chickenhawks. They are the ones you should be outraged against.
And don't hiss at me - I'm a veteran myself and I know a military snow-job when I see one. As our military deaths double, so does Halliburton stock. Our leaders and their rich friends have no reason to stop the killing and they have every reason to continue it. Our sons and daughters are the pawns in their money-making schemes and don't you think they know it? Most of them do. That doesn't stop them from performing their missions and it doesn't make them cowards simply because they see the game plan for what it is. They CAN'T protest the war. They are not in a position to do so. They rely on us to do it for them. Only we can bring them out of the hell hole. Our leaders are not going to do it unless we demand they do it in a unified voice they can't ignore. Demanding that the troops stay IN Iraq for an undefined mission without end in a war against a vague principle while war profiteers grow rich on their blood doesn't make any sense. THAT is what Cindy Sheehan is saying- not that America isn't worth fighting for like Sean Hannity loves to vomit every other sentence to the gullible and Viet Nam-shellshocked.
THE MISSION IS UNWINNABLE. It's the mission that is not worthwhile, not the troops themselves. Why waste more lives for no purpose? Sunnis want to kill Shiites and you care - why? They have been at it for 700 years or so. We won't change that whether we leave today or five years from now. Wake up. Look at it realistically. Every day we remain Cheney's friends get richer and more mothers lose their loved ones. Come on. Why do you support that? Why would you support the agenda of chickenhawk cowards with all its stinking profiteering undertones more than you support your family member's chance to live life? And why are you angry at those who want to save your son or daughter's life, at those who feel his chance at life is far more important than any contractor's bottom line or egotistical leader's plan to strut on a stage of war glory? Because that really makes no sense. I'm a mother too. I know you want your soldier home safe in one piece regardless of his political views. So why do you fight so hard against those who want exactly the same thing?
Do you always speak of yourself in the third person? sm
I see no difference in your writing style. Same old stuff.
I was presuming to speak for those ...
Only I know who was included in we and the we I refer to are well aware of who they are are are fine with being included in we. And, sigh...it really does not matter to me if my post does not make sense to you, or if in reading the explanation to you it remains obtuse. Sighhhhhhh.
I can't speak for Lydia. sm
but I don't think it bothers us as much as it disturbs us. I don't know how old you were during Vietnam. I was in college when my husband went to war. My father had just come home. I had rebeled in my late teenage years and decided I most decidedly was not a Republican. I don't know why, just a transition I suppose. Anyway, I saw first hand the entire face of America change in Vietnam. I was confronted with the war protesters and the slogans and the chants and the posters daily. I grew to dislike it. I saw what it was doing and I moved away from it. At some point, I realized, it was time to grow up and construct a profit-and-loss statement of my commitments and their consequences. Some very high profile names had their awakening and taking stock moment at that time and they moved away from the left, as well. I was never a leftist. I do believe I was a true Democrat though, at least for a time. The leftists drove me out. They have taken over the Democratic party and transformed it into something men like Zell Miller no longer recognize. It's too bad. There was a time it was a party to be proud of.
Speak for you own baby...
zzzzzzzzzzzz
You can't speak for all of us. As a woman,
nm
I can't speak for "pubs" ....I'm not one....
and I do have a sense of humor. But attacking someone personally and making them the butt of pretty tasteless jokes is not funny to me. Not funny about Obama, not funny about Biden, not funny about Michelle Obama, not funny about Cindy McCain...not funny about Sarah Palin. You guys go ballistic if someone says ANYthing about Obama. And just yuck it up tearing Sarah Palin to pieces. That goes way past "a sense of humor."
Maybe you'd better speak slower
It's okay for you to talk down to me and insult my intelligence, but it bothers you if I come back with a similar response. I didn't take kindly to your smart-aleck reply. If you want to disagree fine, but don't insult someone else and not expect the same treatment back in return.
Speak of Sam, what happened to her? nm
x
I can't speak for Chele
but I am not against the poor. I am against keeping me down until the poor catch up. I would probably be considered low income as my husband and I brought in $24,000 last year between the both of us. But you know what? I have taken a second job this year, and he finished his degree and graduated. We are WORKING towards bettering ourselves. Not waiting on someone to come by and say "hey, here's a check for being poor."
Most people that are poor are so because of what they have or haven't done. Yes, there are some people who legitimately have bad luck and can't ever get out of the hole. But more often than not, it's the bad choices they made, the drugs they did, the school they dropped out of, etc. Most "poor people" are able-bodied individuals who could go get a job and start to work their way up out of the hole. But they give up, pop out ten babies, and let the government take care of them. I mean it's a sweet deal isn't it?
What makes me sick is driving by the project 8 low income housing in my area and seeing these folks who only pay $60 a month in rent yet they have BMWs and Yukons and all these nice brand new vehicles parked out front.
But, by all means, please lets continue to "take care" of them.
Yes, those people who are rich by illegal means should be taken down. But those who have worked their butts off to get to the top are not evil. They shouldn't be punished for achieving what you couldn't. More than likely you could if you wanted to.
Yes, I am an MT. I enjoy this job, but I want to do something more with my life. Therefore I will work two jobs and take classes online until I can get my degree. Is it going to suck for awhile? Oh yeah. But you know what? In the end, when I have that degree, and I'm one of those comfortable "rich" people you hate so much, I'll be able to look back and know that I got there on my own. I didn't climb up anyone's back or grab onto their coattails to get there.
No one is against the poor. Those who are legitimately in the dumps and need a hand should get it. But only to get on their feet. Then they need to get out and work just like the rest of us!
STOP THE HANDOUTS!
I assume you speak for yourself
I care about it. Speak for yourself, not others
But I guess you think that's how this country should run.
Yes, I saw him speak today as well
nm
The troops speak
Replying to a post below, I thought this would be a good link in a separate message in case people skip over it below.
The US Military troops speak and here is what they say - 68% for McCain, 23% Obama. Here is the link below.
http://activemilitaryformccain.blogspot.com/
So if you take that, plus Obama has a 5 point lead over McCain in today's polls, plus the 11% who are not decided it is a very close call. November 4th is going to be an excited day for sure.
Please do not presume to speak
If you are so frustrated with repeating this paranoia over and over, then DON'T. That would be a welcome relief for us all. The people who voted for him (and those who did not, for that matter) know NOTHING OF THE KIND. There is not a single, solitary grain of truth in this mass delusion and certainly no proof exists to back up any of this BS. If there were, Berg would not have sought his legal action based on "standing." He would have actually been able to present something concrete.
No one here is violating the Constitution, but the loons who insist on pursuing their law suits to nowhere are making a mockery out of our justice system, not to mention the fact that they have now taken to internet extorsion scheme to finance their lunacy.
You are really not dealing with a full deck if you seriously believe your floodgate statement. There is nothing derogatory about the sore/sour epithets, since they accurately describe the motivations behind all the hoop-lah.
A US citizen has been elected, so don't worry your pretty little head about our Constitution. Obama is not strutting around anywhere. He is selecting his cabinet and preparing himself for the unenviable and daunting task of mopping up after W. He holds a 192-electoral vote lead over McCain, so no doubt the process will continue as it is supposed to and the result will reflect the will of the American people. The only possible miscarriage of justice here is the wack jobs' unsuccessful attempts to usurp a clean, legitimate election which has resulted in a very clear mandate for Obama.
No one has to wonder why Obama "skirted up" so fat (whatever that means), but you go ahead and ponder that one a while longer. Who knows, you may actually have a moment of insight that will reveal just how ignorant this birth certificate witch hunt really is. The people who are promoting this stupidity are an embarassment to our entire nation.
It is good to think before you speak!
At least Barack Obama thinks before he speaks, which is something everyone should do, especially our elected officials. I would rather have someone like Barack Obama who thinks carefully about his words than someone like George Bush or Sarah Palin who are barely able to put together a proper sentence, much less make any sense!
Why7 & how to think before you speak.
This is a lesson everyone should learn!
http://www.wikihow.com/Think-Before-Speaking
Thinking before you speak
What masses are you talking about? Who exactly thinks they're going to get freebies? Who worships the ground he walks on?
The guy thinks before he speaks because he's a thinker. He wants to make sure that what comes out of his mouth is exactly what he wants to convey.
It's easy to hurl unfounded insults, isn't it? You don't have to think to do that.
Gimme a break.
|
