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No, it is not, but US supports Israel every year with

Posted By: () on 2009-06-06
In Reply to: But it is not US land. nm - m

billions of dollars and the newest military technology.
Former Israeli administrations already agreed to a 2-state solution. The Palestinians would get the Westbank as their state. Instead of keeping their promise, Israel started to build the 20-meter-high separation wall and building settlements for the Israelis.

Obama wants this to stop and Netanyahu does not want to comply as a hardline right-winger. It is Netanyahu who wants the whole occupied Palestine for Israel and does not want a 2-state solution. He wouldn't even 'utter' the term ƈ-state solution,' not even when he was discussing this issue with Obama in Washington; he just circled around it.

This does not come out of my head, I am very literate, informed, I look around what is going on in the world, always, I am tolerant and fair.



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    LOL. They think everyone supports Bush...sm
    I am a former Republican and I wouldn't consider posting over there. It all falls on deaf ears.
    I never said all the military supports the war.
    That is a flat out untruth. 
    well, either is a guy who supports infanticide...
    and McCain has always supported rehab not incarceration for first-time offender users and harsher penalties for dealers and international cartel kingpins. His wife is not a dealer and is not an international cartel kingpin. Get your facts straight.

    Biden, not too long ago, said he would be proud to be on a ticket with John McCain. Yes, WITH. And now he is going to have to do a major flip flop and cut him to ribbons. Any respect I EVER had for him is gone.
    He is not fit to be vice president either.
    75% accounts for the former McC supports
    to realize what "country first" means in the face of an election defeat. Think about it. BTW, the 6.8% was injected into the mix for the sake of accuracy.
    Supports his lifestyle?
    So you're saying if he's poor, he won't be gay anymore??? You don't have to have money to be gay. How are you supporting his lifestyle?
    Supports his lifestyle?
    So you're saying if he's poor, he won't be gay anymore??? You don't have to have money to be gay. How are you supporting his lifestyle?
    Ann only supports her own aspirations of fame...sm
    and she leaves no photo op or video shout out unturned. She's ignorant, prejudiced and her followers buy it, literally.

    Maybe it is my small sense of pride in where I lay my head, but I have to respectfully disagree with you about America commiting genocide throughout the world. Were we wrong for entering Iraq preemptively, YES. Have their been atrocities that we should all be ashamed of, YES. But I'm not aware of any genocide commited by America.

    Darfur, that's genocide.
    Anyone who supports Bush is a neoconservative sm
    Neoconservatism is a political agenda that concentrates on militarily enforcing an aggressive US foreign policy. Everyone from the other board that posts here support these aggressive policies.

    The neoconservatives advocate a paradigm shift in which the United States spreads American values by asserting American power-by force, if necessary. The big movers of the neoconservative movement have all at one time shared the same roof under the Project For a New American Century (PNAC).

    Some of them include & have served in both Bush administrations:

    Donald Rumsfeld (Secretary of Defense)
    Paul Wolfowitz (Deputy Secretary of Defense)
    Peter W. Rodman (Assistant Secretary of Defense)
    Dick Cheney (Vice President)
    Elliott Abrams (National Security Council)
    Steve Forbes (Forbes Magazine)
    Zalmay Khalilzad (special envoy for Afghanistan)
    Jeb Bush (Governor of Florida and brother of President George W. Bush)

    There is a lot of information on their webpage:

    http://www.newamericancentury.org/

    There is one page on there of particular interest where they talk about their need for a new Pearl Harbor called Rebuilding America's Defenses. It was written 1 year before 9-11.

    http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf






    She supports birth control and ..

    supports abstinence-only education in schools, but she has also said she does not support tax payer dollars to distribute birth control in schools. She is a member of Feminists for Life, which is an pro-life group.

    Feminist for Life is a pro-life group that has had its positions distorted to show that they are against birth control. Palin critics (including many in the media) have cherry picked in order to smear Gov. Palin.


    Lieberman supports McCain
    I heard about that and also Juliani also supports him.  I think that's great.
    I didn't say he blindly supports Bush.
    Scarborough is objective and honest, and if something is wrong, he tells people.  He doesn't blindfold himself and play follow the leader like so many Bush supporters.  He's not a Bush apologist.
    Who supports Obama? Everybody in the democratic party
    it appears. I was a Clinton fan as I know she takes care of business and knows how to get things done in the Senate and Congress.

    McCain and Palin will lead us to a supreme court nominee which will be a republican and we cannot afford that.
    LIke Palin supports said about Michelle last summer?
    x
    John McCain supports overturning
    x
    Yeah, guess Obama supports refuse to look at all
    nm
    Hardly. Consorting with vs direct quote? Supports succession
    The quote thing, whether SP or her husband is not the only example of the problems SP will be facing once the convention is over and the campaign goes into high gear. So far, this morning, you have managed to dodge every single effort to elicit a response to SP's OWN words. Dismiss the pastor, but not her own preaching on video. That just won't fade away no matter how much spin you are able to produce. These are land mines waiting for detonation.

    With regard to the "got not use for America's damned institutions" and support of succession question, these issues will not play well for yer in terms of country first, in the context of ethics (can't practice what is preached) and when it comes to change versus same old stuff.

    Before pronoucing this as a nonissue, suppose we give this a little time to play out in the political arena? Your guilt by association campaign has already run its course, and Obama managed to clench the nomination. In the light of the blaring negative publicity that will be issuing forth in the weeks to come with SP being the newest rock star on the block, how much political mileage do you really think that empty tank is going to give you?
    Obama is a CHRISTIAN. He supports equal rights...sm
    for all people including gay people. I think that the radical Christian right are the gay haters.
    Palin supports aerial hunting of wildlife
    Even if I preferred McCain (which I don't) I would use my vote to keep this thug out of office.
    Israel
    There are many jews who do not like Sharon, many.  I could post what they say about him but I wont.  However, posting about great leaders, I grew up loving absolutely loving Golda Meir..The situation in Israel is not ours to decide or get heated about..the situation we need to get heated about is America.  To try to tie jews and christians together happily cannot happen.  For many many years christians did not even acknowledge jews or their beliefs, now all of a sudden lets get together as we believe as one, however, we do not believe as one, not at all.  I have watched this over a few years, the christians are trying to hook onto jews as they think well, we both believe in the Bible so we believe the same.  We do not believe the same.  First of all, we do not believe in the new testament, we do not believe in hell, many of us do not even believe in a heaven and we do not believe in jesus as a savior.  He was a jewish man who taught peace and love and tolerance but nothing more.  Our savior has not come yet.  I think you truly pray and feel for Israel, however, maybe you can take a few courses of Judaism at a local synagogue and understand us more.  I know my local synagogue has courses for non jews to learn more about us.
    Oil from Israel
    Has anyone researched that? In the coming future, Russia will attack Israel. Those who have researched prophecies of the future of the world believe a gusher of this oil wealth is soon coming from Israel, and Russia (amazingly not called Soviet Union in these prophecies of 1100+ years ago) will form an Islamic alliance (they really don't want to) and will come down from the north and attack unwalled villages, supposedly for this sudden great wealth of oil. However, Israel has built walls all over the place. So, this attack will probably happen after the one world leader soon to appear on the world scene offers a convincing (but false) peace and Israel tears the walls down. I have been to Russia, and it is so different from what was promised to the Russian people back when my parents were very young. Then, it was a revolution similar to what Castro was supposed to have done, and now what Chavez is supposedly doing. I saw the apartments, hospitals, schools, etc., in Russia. Yes, Kruschev said there were no homeless people. I only saw people who had to live in apartments where the government dictated that they live and no freedom to express their opinion. Their cost to live in these apartments - free. Our cost to have the freedom in America to say what we want to - priceless. Anyone remember that guy that wrote, The Late Great Planet Earth, back in the 1970's. He now has a program called International Intelligence Briefing. Check your local/cable listings. If you know of any others like him who have researched this other side of the (global) story, please let me know. Thanks.
    Israel was willing........... sm
    to give the Gaza Strip to the Palestinians in 2005 and allow them to govern it on their own, but that wasn't good enough for the Palestinians.

    China has given us untold amounts of money. Does that mean that China has a say in how our country should be run?

    I stand on my previous statements that any country that does not support Israel (and I don't mean just monetarily)is barking up the wrong olive tree.
    do you really think it is just to let Israel
    take the whole of Palestine? Does not matter what the Bible says!
    US, Israel planned ME war

    Why does none of this surprise me?















    'US, Israel planned ME war'
    13/08/2006 11:06  - (SA)  



    New York - The US government was closely involved in the planning of Israel's military operations against Islamic militant group Hezbollah even before the July 12 kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers, The New Yorker magazine reported in its latest issue.

    The kidnapping triggered a month-long Israeli operation in South Lebanon that is expected to come to an end on Monday.

    But Pulitzer Prize-winning US journalist Seymour Hersh writes that President George W Bush and vice president Dick Cheney were convinced that a successful Israeli bombing campaign against Hezbollah could ease Israel's security concerns and also serve as a prelude to a potential US pre-emptive attack to destroy Iran's nuclear installations.

    Citing an unnamed Middle East expert with knowledge of the current thinking of the Israeli and US governments, Israel had devised a plan for attacking Hezbollah - and shared it with Bush administration officials - well before the July 12 kidnappings.

    The expert added that the White House had several reasons for supporting a bombing campaign, the report said.

    If there was to be a military option against Iran, it had to get rid of the weapons Hezbollah could use in a potential retaliation against Israel, Hersh writes.

    Citing a US government consultant with close ties to Israel, Hersh also reports that earlier this summer, before the Hezbollah kidnappings, several Israeli officials visited Washington to get a green light for a bombing operation following a Hezbollah provocation, and to find out how much the United States would bear.

    The Israelis told us it would be a cheap war with many benefits, the magazine quotes the consultant as saying. Why oppose it? We'll be able to hunt down and bomb missiles, tunnels, and bunkers from the air. It would be a demo for Iran.

    US government officials have denied the charges.

    Nonetheless, Hersh writes, a former senior intelligence official says some officers serving with the Joint Chiefs of Staff remain deeply concerned that the administration will have a far more positive assessment of the air campaign than they should.

    There is no way that (defence secretary Donald) Rumsfeld and Cheney will draw the right conclusion about this, the report quotes the former official as saying. When the smoke clears, they'll say it was a success, and they'll draw reinforcement for their plan to attack Iran.


     


    Israel solution

    Move the state of Israel to Virginia, Jerry Fallwell and Pat Robertson can fight over the honor, and see how much y'all love Israel then.


    I am not asking you to discuss Israel. sm

    I know that it happens all the time.  I am sorry that it does.


    You don't have to go to Israel to know right from wrong.
    Occupation, blockade, genocidal war of attrition, settlement expansion, diasporas of refugees, no right to return, the wall, imposition of police state, creation of open air prisons/terrorist breeding gounds, countless treaty violations, repeated invasions, plunder of resources, wholesale murderous slaughter featuring killing, generations of widows, widowers and orphans, maiming for life and massive destruction of property...just to name a few things off the top of my head.
    Why Israel Fights

    Why the Israeli attack helps the US by taking on Hamas now and why this time Israel may succeed in Gaza. A well-written perspective on Gaza, Israel, Hamas. This adds more to consider as we all discuss this war.


    Why Israel Fights
    By WILLIAM KRISTOL
    Published: January 4, 2009


    The Israeli assault on Hamas in Gaza is going to be a replay, we’re told, of the attempt to subdue Hezbollah in southern Lebanon in the summer of 2006. And the outcome, it’s asserted, will be the same: lots of death and destruction, no strategic victory for Israel and a setback for all who seek peace and progress in the Middle East.


    Obviously, war is an unpredictable business, so I say this with some trepidation: I think the conventional wisdom will be proved wrong. Israel could well succeed in Gaza.


    For one thing, southern Lebanon is a substantial and hilly area, bordered by northern Lebanon and Syria, through which Hezbollah could be re-supplied, both by Syria itself and by Iran. Gaza is a flat, narrow strip, bordered by Israel, as well as by the sea and by Egypt, no friend to Hamas. By cutting off the northern part of Gaza from the southern, Israel has basically surrounded northern Gaza, creating a military situation very different from that in Lebanon in 2006.


    What’s more, the Israeli leadership seems aware of the mistakes — political, strategic and military — it made in Lebanon. That doesn’t mean it won’t make them all over again. The same prime minister, Ehud Olmert, is in charge, after all. But, today’s defense minister, Ehud Barak, is very different from his predecessor, the weak and unqualified Amir Peretz. So far as one can tell, the Gaza operation seems to have been well-planned and is being methodically executed, in sharp contrast to the Lebanon incursion. Barak has also warned that the operation could be long and difficult, lowering expectations by contrast with the Israeli rhetoric of July 2006.


    In addition, in Lebanon, Israel proclaimed war goals that it couldn’t achieve — such as retrieving its two kidnapped soldiers and disarming Hezbollah. Now the Israeli government says that it seeks to weaken Hamas, lessen its ability to fire rockets from Gaza and secure new arrangements along the Egyptian-Gaza border to prevent Hamas from re-arming. These may well be achievable goals.


    And, of course, not all military efforts against terror fail. Recall Israel’s incursion into the West Bank in the spring of 2002, when, under the leadership of Ariel Sharon, Israel succeeded in ripping up established terror networks and began the defeat of the second intifada. Israel also was able to avoid a long-term re-occupation, while retaining the ability to go back in on anti-terror missions. What’s more, the 2002 bloodshed didn’t seem to do lasting damage to hopes for progress or moderation on the West Bank. After all, it’s Gaza, from which Israel withdrew in 2005, not the West Bank, that became a Hamas stronghold.


    An Israeli success in Gaza would be a victory in the war on terror — and in the broader struggle for the future of the Middle East. Hamas is only one manifestation of the rise, over the past few decades, of a terror-friendly and almost death-cult-like form of Islamic extremism. The combination of such terror movements with a terror-sponsoring and nuclear-weapons-seeking Iranian state (aided by its sidekick Syria) has produced a new kind of threat to Israel.


    But not just to Israel. To everyone in the Middle East — very much including Muslims — who aren’t interested in living under the sway of extremist regimes. And to any nation, like the United States, that is a target of Islamic terror. So there are sound reasons why the United States — whether led by George W. Bush or Barack Obama — will stand with Israel as it fights.


    But Israel — assuming it succeeds — is doing the United States a favor by taking on Hamas now.


    The huge challenge for the Obama administration is going to be Iran. If Israel had yielded to Hamas and refrained from using force to stop terror attacks, it would have been a victory for Iran. If Israel were now to withdraw under pressure without accomplishing the objectives of severely weakening Hamas and preventing the reconstitution of a terror-exporting state in Gaza, it would be a triumph for Iran. In either case, the Iranian regime would be emboldened, and less susceptible to the pressure from the Obama administration to stop its nuclear program.


    But a defeat of Hamas in Gaza — following on the heels of our success in Iraq — would be a real setback for Iran. It would make it easier to assemble regional and international coalitions to pressure Iran. It might positively affect the Iranian elections in June. It might make the Iranian regime more amenable to dealing.


    With respect to Iran, Obama may well face — as the Israeli government did with Hamas — a moment when the use of force seems to be the only responsible option. But Israel’s willingness to fight makes it more possible that the United States may not have to. 


    Who does Israel belong to? So you are saying

    the U.N. overstepped its bounds?  And what about the United Kingdom that controlled the area in the early 1900s? 


    Like it or not nations are formed through civil war.  There are winners and there are losers.  It's really very simple.  The process has not changed for centuries and it will never change.  The strong prevail.  The righteous prevail. The minute we take a liberal viewpoint, that's the exact minute we become weak. 


    So, even after Israel withdrew from
    Gaza, the Hamas still continued bombing Israel. Who is the aggressor?
    Each brown place in the link takes you to a different article that supports this article...nm
    x
    Yep those mean conservatives are over there helping Israel

    Yep, they'll be back when all the Lebanese are dead, because all us conservatives are evil like that.    



    No, they live in the US, and the US backs Israel.nm
    z
    I have studied U.S./Israel relations

    I have studied U.S./Israel relations extensively.  I fully understand that the protestors do not share my point of view as well as you.  From reading your copious posts I am very clear on where you stand.  I will not be so presumptious as to think I know your biography, but you obviously believe everything wrong in the world has U.S. origins.  I believe you are wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt, but I will not try to change your mind.  Since liberals in general are so worried about how the rest of the world thinks about us I will bring to your attention that it becomes ever more clear by your stances and views as with those on the extreme left that you all side with terrorism.  You can spin it any way you want, but you come off as supporting terrorists.


    This describes most experts on Israel. TI
    A breyre hob ich (I have no alternative), the mind is closed here. It is not really such a phenomenon.  All is bashert (predestined).  Even in the Jewish community, there is division.  The Jews in the United States, many of them, have lost communion with the Jews left in Israel, though we are seeing some coming back, rediscovering the cause. Then have a benken (longing, yearning) inside them and they are drawn back to the homeland.  They are welcome. As for what is said here, it is really not debate at all is it?  It was silly of me to have tried.  There are better battles and bigger stakes than most imagine.  Alaichem sholom (peace to you).  If it please Hashem.
    oops: I did mean Israel & Iran.
    Afghanistan & Pakistan are no picnic, either.
    What makes you think Israel will succeed in
    "defeating" the Palestinians this time around. Bullying swagger and bravado certainly won't make it so. Goliath has not been able to slay David in the last 60 years. You think they will pick up their marbles and go quietly into the night? There is only one thing that can change the course of this cycling hell-on-earth.

    REPEAT: It's the occupation. End it or live in fear for all eternity.
    I lived in Israel for many years
    and what has happened has more to do with the upcoming election in Israel than with the US. Check it out.
    Wrong again! With or without the U.S., Israel will always prevail.
    Just keep watching.  Obama will withdrawal American support from Israel, I'm sure, and Israel will STILL prevail.
    Israel will prevail.......it is ordained by God
    And even Obama can't do anything about that but that's not to say Israel hasn't done its share of manipulating the Arabs....they helped form Hamas for the purpose of overthrowing the PLO and look where it got them...... more trouble!
    Does really need to be said that Israel is predominantly Jewish?

    When I speak of Israel, I speak of the Jews. 


     


    You Said:  "And yes, I did bring Hitler into the conversation.  He systematically tied to wipe out a group of people, which is exactly what Israel is doing right now."


    That statement is exactly what makes you anti-Semitic.  The fact that you can compare Israel to Nazi Germany is obscene and anti-Semitic.  You are using something horrific done to the Jews (who make up 75% or more of the Israeli population) and using it to illustrate what you perceive is going on in the Gaza Strip.  Can you not find some other means to make your point other than conjuring up prejudice perpetrated by Hitler?  Could you have maybe made your comparison to Kosovo/Bosnia?  Nope, you chose the holocaust to illustrate your point.  You intent was to shock and to be controversial.  You wanted to provoke a reaction. 


    What exactly did you think using the name "Hitler" would provoke?  You argument in and of itself is anti-Semitic. 


    By the way, I am a messianic Jew.  I know a little bit about anti-Semitism.  So before you continue to insult both my intelligence and my homeland, choose your words wisely.


    You are wrong: Obama is not against Israel,
    he is for a 2-state solution: The Westbank and Gaza for the Palestinians, ALL the rest for Israel. I think that the Palestinians have a right to a 'small' part of Palestine, as they were the first to be in the Holy Land and there were several agreements under previous US administrations, also Bush's, that implemented this right.
    Why should Israel have it all and the Palestinians nothing? Where should the Palestinians go who live in the by Isreal occupied territories that were promised to them? This constant back and forth struggle between Israel and the Palestinians, especially the Israeli attacks on Gaza, have the goal to make whole Palestine an Israeli state.
    Even on the Israeli side there are a lot of voices who think that the Palestinians have a right to their own state and admit that bringing this problem to a solution (2-state) will solve a lot of problems, as it constitutes the root problem in the Middle East.
    It is all about justice and fairness!
    You are wrong: Obama is not against Israel,
    he is for a 2-state solution: The Westbank and Gaza for the Palestinians, ALL the rest for Israel. I think that the Palestinians have a right to a 'small' part of Palestine, as they were the first to be in the Holy Land and there were several agreements under previous US administrations, also Bush's, that implemented this right.
    Why should Israel have it all and the Palestinians nothing? Where should the Palestinians go who live in the by Isreal occupied territories that were promised to them? This constant back and forth struggle between Israel and the Palestinians, especially the Israeli attacks on Gaza, have the goal to make whole Palestine an Israeli state.
    Even on the Israeli side there are a lot of voices who think that the Palestinians have a right to their own state and admit that bringing this problem to a solution (2-state) will solve a lot of problems, as it constitutes the root problem in the Middle East.
    It is all about justice and fairness!
    You are wrong: Obama is not against Israel,
    he is for a 2-state solution: The Westbank and Gaza for the Palestinians, ALL the rest for Israel. I think that the Palestinians have a right to a 'small' part of Palestine, as they were the first to be in the Holy Land and there were several agreements under previous US administrations, also Bush's, that implemented this right.
    Why should Israel have it all and the Palestinians nothing? Where should the Palestinians go who live in the by Isreal occupied territories that were promised to them? This constant back and forth struggle between Israel and the Palestinians, especially the Israeli attacks on Gaza, have the goal to make whole Palestine an Israeli state.
    Even on the Israeli side there are a lot of voices who think that the Palestinians have a right to their own state and admit that bringing this problem to a solution (2-state) will solve a lot of problems, as it constitutes the root problem in the Middle East.
    It is all about justice and fairness!
    But it was during the1848 Israel/Arab war
    that Israel was created, sending millions of Palestinians refugees out of Palestine into neighboring Arab countries and occupying Palestine.
    But it was during the1948 Israel/Arab war
    that Israel was created, sending millions of Palestinians refugees out of Palestine into neighboring Arab countries and occupying Palestine.
    I think if Israel slings anything at Iran....
    it would not just be rockets, and if someone had said I had no right to exist, I might consider slinging some rockets at them myself. I'm just sayin.

    And as to Obama being able to hold them back...if he can't be bothered to shake his finger at Iran for crushing protests on worldwide TV, what on earth would make you think he could or would if he could hold Israel back? I have seen nothing to indicate that Barack Obama cares a hoot in heck what happens to Israel. If you look at his connections and who he has loaded his administration with...their agenda is certainly not pro Israel and to be frank I believe they consider Israel expendable, and if the palestinians get taken out as collateral damage...well...you should watch that posted video, and then you should look at a list of the Bilderberg group. Funny how the left always wanted to talk about it because there were many of right in the group...well, there are certainly a lot more of the left in it, and a ton of those are in the present administration. But now that they are in power, amazing how the Bilderberg group is no longer the big bad...sorry for borrowing your moniker there. lol.
    Israel felt pulling out of Gaza was okay. sm
    Oh, okay, that explains all those wailing Jews being forcefully removed from their homes of 30 plus years.  Glad you cleared that up.  Your statement is ridiculous.  But then, they all are.  Gosh, your lying comment is getting really old.   Does anyone else think so?
    A Christian is not allowed to comment on Israel? nm
    Have we made new rules?  I didn't know that!  When did that happen!  By the way, sm is exactly right.   Ariel Sharon has made a mistake that will doom Israel.  This is a man who wept on television with fury when saying he would never give up an inch of land and then handed the Gaza strip away. If you have been following this story for some time, decades, as I have, then you know what a tragedy this is.  One does not have to be Jewish to understand it. In fact, if you understand the Biblical significance, you get the picture.  And, of course, Sharon was wrong, as Hamas now wants Jerusalem.  
    I see, any criticism of Israel gets the label of antisemite.nm
    z
    And Israel loves those suicide bombers.
    Your posts are disquieting. Why do you defend Hezbollah?
    How he handled the Israel-Palestinian thing....
    underscores his lack of experience. Putting up political posters at the Western Wall was not the smartest of moves either. Not saying he had personal knowledge of it, but he needs to rein in his "camp." A few days ago one of them, during a briefing on the plane, said something about "I've been in the White House for..." and a reporter had to remind him Obama was not President yet. Ahem.

    As to the Berlin speech...a bit concerning. Is he running for President of the World or President of the United States? I think he needs to decide.