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One more thing, piglet...

Posted By: Observer on 2007-12-17
In Reply to: Geez.... - Observer

you don't find 48 million dead babies just the least bit sad??


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Thanks for this Piglet! Here's one that sm

I read last night regarding voters and pocketbook issues. In this survey 2/3 polled want universal health care.  Those graphs are great!  The health insurance companies are largely the culprit. The Teflon Don would be less greedy than BCBS, Aetna, etc.!!!



Poll: Pocketbook Issues Rising



WASHINGTON (AP) — Kitchen table worries pushed ahead of the war in Iraq over the past month, a shift toward pocketbook issues that has gained currency as the election year dawns.


More than half the voters in an ongoing survey for The Associated Press and Yahoo News say the economy and health care are extremely important to them personally. They fear they will face unexpected medical expenses, their homes will lose value or mortgage and credit card payments will overwhelm them.


Events, however, can quickly change public opinion. Thursday's assassination of Pakistan opposition leader Benazir Bhutto could draw more attention to terrorism and national security, an issue that still ranked highly with the public and which 45 percent of those polled considered extremely important.


This latest AP-Yahoo News survey of more than 1,800 people by Knowledge Networks offers a unique opportunity to track changes in public attitudes as the presidential campaign unfolds. The first poll was last month and set a base line to measure national sentiment.


In the new results, men and women approaching retirement were especially attentive to the economy and health care, with six out of 10 ranking both issues extremely important. Politically, the attention to such domestic issues hangs darkly over Republicans. Voters say they are far more likely to trust Democrats to handle the economy and health care.


Consider Linda Zimmerman, a 50-year-old sheep farmer from Thurmont, Md. Her daughter and son-in-law are having trouble keeping up with two mortgages on a town house, she said. One street in her neighborhood has five homes for sale, and one has been on the market for two years.


Registered as a Republican, she's ready to reconsider.


"We're Republicans and I'm very unhappy with them, and I've been watching the Democrats," she said. "We did better when (Bill) Clinton was in than we did with Bush. It's just terrible."


The Democratic edge on such issues illustrates the predicament Republicans face going into a presidential election. Iraq doesn't dominate the news as it used to, replaced by headlines about slumping home sales, high gasoline prices and a credit crunch.


The impact of Bhutto's assassination on public opinion depends on whether Americans perceive her death as an added threat to the United States. Terrorism was the only issue polled that Republicans were more trusted than Democrats to handle well.


Republican Rudy Giuliani had benefited most from people's fears of terrorism. But over the past month his level of support dropped, even among voters who said terrorism was an important issue. Giuliani is now trying to get some of those voters back, releasing an ad Thursday that uses images of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attack on New York.


All in all, though, voters appear to be weighing other issues at least as heavily as the country heads into the first voting of the presidential election.


Financial worries have risen in prominence. Forty-eight percent of those polled said Social Security is extremely important to them, up from 42 percent in November. That's virtually the same as the 46 percent who considered Iraq extremely important.


These new public concerns are reflected on the campaign trail, where candidates are hitting domestic topics hard. There too, Democrats have an edge over Republicans when it comes to connecting with their core voters.


Overall, 42 percent of Democrats are very or extremely satisfied with the amount of attention their favored candidates are giving to the issues that matter most to them. Only 32 percent of Republicans feel that way about their candidates. Of all the candidates, Democrat Barack Obama gets the best rating among his supporters.


Bill Hine, a 65-year-old Vietnam veteran from Warrenton, Va., considers himself a "soft Republican" who is partial to John McCain. But the nation's health system needs fixing, he said, and he's not happy with what he's hearing.


"A lot of Republicans are just anti-anything, anti-changing anything, and that's one of the things I'll be looking at," he said.


Six out of 10 people polled said they believe it is at least somewhat likely that the U.S. economy will enter a recession next year. Slightly more — 64 percent — said they worried about a major unexpected medical expense, and 55 percent worried that the value of their stocks and retirement investments would drop.


Forty-four percent said they were concerned that the value of their homes would decrease during the next six months. That sentiment was especially strong in the mountain states.


"Middle-class America is being chipped away at," said Edward Lemieux, a 57-year-old pattern maker from North Smithfield, R.I., who plans to support Obama for president.


His view is influenced by the flight of manufacturing jobs from his state, by the "For Sale" signs that outnumber the "Sold" signs on neighborhood lawns and by his mother's health care needs.


"We're all of a sudden becoming a country of rich and poor," he said. "The middle class is eroding."


Despite those worries, respondents have grown slightly more optimistic about the direction of the nation during the past month. Nearly three out of 10 say the country is on the right path, compared with 24 percent last month. This uptick in the national mood is evident in both parties, though it's much stronger among Republicans. Still, more than seven out of 10 said they believe the U.S. is headed down the wrong track.


Interest in immigration — a major issue in the Republican presidential contest — remained the same as last month, with 37 percent saying it was an extremely important issue. But for all the candidates' efforts to distinguish themselves on that issue, the poll found that none of the leading contenders holds an advantage among Republicans who feel most strongly about immigration.


Sentiments on health care and the economy could make a difference in the Democratic contest.


Hillary Rodham Clinton and John Edwards supporters have much stronger feelings about the economy and Social Security than Obama voters. Edwards has staked his campaign on a message of economic populism, while Clinton draws 40 percent of her support from people with household incomes of less than $25,000, far more than her rivals.


Clinton, Obama and Edwards have been feuding over who would provide the most comprehensive health care plan.


Nearly two-thirds of voters polled said the United States should adopt a universal health insurance program "in which everyone is covered under a program like Medicare that is run by the government and financed by taxpayers." Fewer, but still a majority at 54 percent, said they supported a single-payer system whereby all Americans would get their health insurance through a taxpayer-financed government plan.


Lynn Haynes, 42, of Huntington, W.Va., works in the state government's welfare department where she sees clients who can't afford health care. What's more, she has a 35-year-old sister who is developmentally delayed and "falls into the cracks" of government assistance programs. She's a registered Republican, likes Giuliani but supports universal health care and is giving Democrats a hard look.


"I see too many people at work especially who just don't get any health care," Haynes said. "I look at what they get for retirement and Social Security, and I don't see how they live on that and afford their prescriptions."


The survey of 1,821 adults was conducted from Dec. 14-20, and had an overall margin of sampling error of plus or minus 2.3 percentage points. Included were interviews with 847 Democrats, for whom the margin of sampling error was plus or minus 3.4 points, and 655 Republicans, with a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3.8 points.


The poll was conducted over the Internet by Knowledge Networks, which initially contacted people using traditional telephone polling methods and followed with online interviews. People chosen for the study who had no Internet access were given it for free.


AP News Survey Specialist Dennis Junius and Associated Press writer Christine Simmons contributed to this report.


 


Now, now, piglet....did I EVER say you or any other...
liberal was evil? I just have a differing opinion on some issues. Why some cannot handle that, why it is such a thorn in some sides...why there is such intolerance on this board for a differing opinion...one does wonder.

Have a good day! :)


Like your POV, piglet

Ahh, the paradox of what is God's will.  "Thou shalt not kill" being one of the commandments, I find it really strange how many bloody battles are chronicled in the Bible and of course, God's team always wins.  So what's that message - don't kill unless God tells you its cool?  How do you know GOD is the one telling you to kill - maybe its a demon impersonating god and trying to get you sin by killing without God's express permission? 


Certainly our president must have a direct line to God and has direct permission to go kill - it can't possibly be God's will for those people to stay alive (yet strangely he created them in the first place, hmmmm).


And what about bugs and vermin?  Its OK to kill them - right?  Its OK to kill animals for sport and food, right?  Don't need God's permission to kill them - even though it is presumably God's will for them to be alive or they wouldn't be here?


Let pro-war anti-abortionists clarify that one, please!


Yeah Piglet!!
You make my point so much more eloquently than I can!
Protection, piglet.....
if we remove the US military presence and full blown insurgency left to take over, the people we are protecting with patrols in Baghdad will no longer have that protection. If they are killing as many of them as they are with us there, you really expect that to just stop when we leave? What bubble are YOU living in?

My way of thinking is not to abandon them now that we are there, regardless of how we got there. You can't turn back time. It's done. And yes, I think we owe it to the Iraqis who welcomed us (and they did in the beginning) and trusted us (and they did in the beginning and some still do...I see it because I don't just watch liberal media)...yes, I think we owe it to those people not to abandon them. If that means a continued military presence for awhile, then I think we should do that. You don't agree. Fine. I think the pain the Iraqi people will feel will be multipled many times over if we pull out now. You don't. Fine. Not sure how you arrive at that conclusion, but I don't need to. We will just agree to disagree.

And..as a side note...I don't really think you are in a position to call ME arrogant.

Going, having a nice day. lol.
Oh duh well gee thanks piglet for doin that...
fer me. Now maybe I kin understan it. Yer so kind.

I suppose I didn't get through all your post, to coin your words, too much recycled "wind."

Bottom line...if they ever DO get past the posturing stage and impeach the man, and if he is proven guilty, he should be removed from office. I have said that time and time again. Because I do believe in innocent until proven guilty, no matter what political bent someone is. And if he is proven guilty, I sure won't be defending him and yelling hatchet job and vast leftwing conspiracy. You can't say that honestly, you know you can't. If he was found innocent you would be screaming those very things just like everyone else on the liberal blogs. There is no objective thinking anymore. There is no equal application of the law anymore. And that only bothers you on your own side. You could care less what happens to people who do not agree with you. And there is something very, very wrong with that picture.

You have an inability to think objectively anymore. Everything is colored by your political idealogical bent. If a Republican, or a "conservative" says it, it has to be a lie. Cheney is guilty in your mind no matter what an impeachment trial would bring out. Bush is guilty in your mind, it does not matter what evidencce to the contrary might be presented. At least have the guts to admit it. You don't believe if equal justice for all. You don't believe in the concept of justice unless it applies to your side of the fence.

And that, my friend, is why I, and a lot of other Americans, are sick to death of politics. And which is why I am hoping that if Paul does not get the nomination, or another person who shall remain nameless, I hope one of them will run on Independent ticket and send a real message. I hope someone has the guts to tap that resource. I would really like to see that happen. So I am taking your advice, piglet. I am looking to change things. And it is about darned time someone did...thank you SO much for the motivation. Perhaps what I can do here will help. Movements start somewhere, with someone.

We shall see...have a great day, piglet, a REALLY great day!
Ah, the piglet post of disdain...
I can always count on you.

If you had read the post a little closer, you would have seen that I said that John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson did NOT run from war...the word "except" is the big one you missed. You might try reading the whole thing and understanding it before going off on me...but you are so eager to do the latter you won't take time to do the former. John Kennedy put all the players in Nam including helicopter support and Green Berets on his watch...Johnson picked up the ball after Kennedy was assassinated. So he actually started it.

That being said, other than that ill-conceived venture...I think John Kennedy was a good President and a decent man, and if liberals now were more like he was then...suffice it to say I would understand them much better.

You keep saying conservative party. There is no conservative party that I know of. I would agree that the Republican party right now is NOT conservative (at least the upper level politicos) and I have said that numerous times...and I am not a registered Republican except at primary times...as I have also said numerous times. Selective memory, piglet?

And I don't really CARE if you want to call emancipation a LIBERAL idea, and voting for African Americans and women LIBERAL ideas. You can say that until you are blue in the face. It was conservatives who put them into motion, made them work, and they are sustained today. Abraham Lincoln was as conservative by description as there is. He was a deeply religious man and a deeply moral man. His opposition to slavery was on the basis that it was a deeply moral wrong. Until the government got into the social programs business, the majority of programs geared toward the poor and disadvantaged were...GASP...religious programs, also prompted by a deep moral provocation from a place of humility, to serve the needs of the less fortunate, and they did a good job of it. And you can say those are LIBERAL ideas, but they were put into action by CONSERVATIVE people. Ideas are fine, but ACTIONS are what counts.

You have very little tolerance for anyone who does not share your beliefs. No wait..I take that back. Zero tolerance. lol.
Oh pulleeezzzzzz piglet....do you hear yourself??
I don't CARE if the liberal posters cross over. I have said that ad nauseam. You cannot help yourself. You have to twist and put yourself back on that lofty perch. I said nothing about them being ashamed of themselves. I have absolutely no issue with cross posting.

JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN DOESN'T MEAN YOU SHOULD...okay....protesting in the streets with antiwar signs...screaming at people who pass...having die-ins...when I protested that saying that sometimes just because you can do something doesn't mean you should...I was attacked. Now you are attacking me for the same thing.

It is so transparent it borders on the ridiculous. Bottom line...you do not want dissent. Period. Just like I would counter a sign carrier I did not agree with in person, or if I chose to carry a sign to protest something I did not agree with...I will do the same thing here.

And here I thought that is what liberals represented...and would argue emphatically for someone's right to stage a die-in with a dead soldier's name pinned to their chest...but let one lone conservative come to an anonymous board and it is get out, we don't want to hear it, exercise your rights if you want but NOT HERE.

Antiliberal and unAmerican.
Piglet, thank you for your voice of reason
It's very refreshing. Thanks again...
Piglet touched on a point in one of her....

posts that is important to understand the profound difference in liberals and conservatives...while I don't agree with the exact wording...it is in the right vein.   She said "liberals view it as a human issue and conservatives view it as a business."  That is not entirely true, because that suggests conservatives do not view it as a human issue at all.  They do.  The difference is, I believe, that while conservatives do have the same compassion, that is tempered with sober thinking. Thinking about what it will cost.  Thinking about the long-term effects.  Thinking about how it affects everyone.  There has to be that balance.  One part of the family needs to try to keep the other part of the family from giving away the farm, to put it simply.  You make similar decisions in your personal lives.  Your kids want a lot of things.  You can't afford to give them everything they want, so you have to make choices.  There just needs to be that balance.  That is obvious from the postings.  Any long-term effect or cost of an entitlement is not entertained, and if it is brought to light, it is greeted with, for lack of a better phrase, "Why do you want to rain on the parade?"  And that really is not the intention.  Conservatives are not against everyone having health care.  Conservatives are not against helping those truly in need.  Conservatives are against keeping people in poverty and beholden to the central government for their every need.  That is a dangerous path.


Why can't we ask the government, instead of just adding yet aonther entitlement, to look at how much money comes in from income taxes as they now stand.  Then look at how much is spent on entitlements.  If it is the consensus of the nation that national health care is the most important to them, then that should be funded first.  Without raising taxes.  That would be reform; you say you want reform.  


Why not reform the welfare system?  Much money could be saved there.  Tighten it up.  Stop making assistance permanent if the person is able to work.  Give them a check, and with that check mandatory participation in job training and placement program, and when they place you, the check stops.  No more endless welfare checks for people who are able to work.  If it is a low wage job, then other entitlements can help...food stamps, etc.  Get people off the government tab who are able to work.  I think we would all be amazed at how much money that would free up for other more important entitlements.   That is what I am talking about.  Let's not create yet another entitlement and raise taxes yet again.  Let's tighten up the government belt.


All that being said, I still have great reservations about national health care from a socialism point of view. Reform health care, introduce more free market negotiation to get the cost of health care down....all those things I am not against.  We don't know if it will work or not, but I would think we should try that first before starting down the slippery slope of socialist programs.


In closing, I would just like to say....we are all Americans, and we do have that in common.  Our lives are probably very similar and we probably come from about the same economic group.  We have differing views, but that doesn't mean we can't treat each other respectfully and not take postings personally, and yes, I am guilty like others of the "pouty postings."  I would like to start away from that, and am going to make a concentrated effort to do so.  I hope others will join me.  We can have discussions, disagreements and lively debates...without disliking someone we don't really know because their opinions differ.  AsI have said and others have said...we have friends or family members with opposing views, but we manage to get through that.  My stepdaughters both are verryyy liberal gals, and we have lively discussions, I agree with them occasionally and they agree with me occasionally...and in the end...we all know where we would like to go, we just differ in how to get there.


God bless, and have a great day!


GREAT post, Piglet....you said it 4 me..sm

this sentence you said....you summed it up for me, what I feel and my thoughts


*Pro-life to me means anti-war, anti-starvation, anti-subjugation, etcetera, for all living things.*


YOU_GOT_IT!!   


LOL. Piglet jumped off the carousel and
LOL.  I'm finding you two and myself a little too amusing today.  Think I've been staring at a computer screen too long today because I'm finding this conversation funny all of a sudden.  Oh well.  Laughter is good for you right?
Umm...2003...isn't that the PAST, piglet....
I thought you were interested in NOW. :-)
Fantastic post Piglet. From Whorn s/m
Thanks for your post piglet. It seems a number of us share concerns regarding the current system. I  currently have health insurance, but due to my age of over 55 and a few minor preexisting conditions I am unable to secure health insurance for below $13.000,00 a year. I  am able to deduct 100% of my premiun on my taxes. I pay no federal tax as a result, but the lessened dollar amout off of off my taxes is  about $150.00 a year, and does  really make a dent in my $!3,000 annual health premium.
um tara, she didn't write the article (piglet)...sm
what is up with you?  Take your nasty pill today?  As a newbie to this particular board (liberals) - I'm offended to read your waste-of-bandwidth attacks/reactions.  Hope the rest of the year 2008 is better for you than the first couple of days appear to be. 
Nice post piglet. All your points are well made.

I agree 100% with what you had to say.  Too many Americans have been brainwashed by fear, and I think many Americans who are against universal healthcare are just buying into the Chicken Little syndrome that is so prevelent in this country lately.  The sky will fall if all of our citizens have access to affordable healthcare!


As you said, using France's system as a model does not mean we have to do everything exactly as France has, but they are a great example of a system that is working.


Piglet: Kasparov calls Russia's elections...s/m

meaning the recent Putin reelection.....the *dirtiest* in their history.....


http://newsfromrussia.com/news/russia/03-12-2007/102126-kasparov_elections-0


To Piglet....Gary Kasparov was released from jail
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/11/29/kasparov.jail.ap/
But valuing over the price of a dollar is a right thing wing thing, so you are on the wrong board. n
x
I never said it's a bad thing, it is a good thing....nm
nm
one other thing though....

Agree with everything you stated, but I am profoundly disgusted also with Rove being able to expose a CIA agent, and nothing is going to be done about it in that I feel he committed treason, as Reagan did with Iran-Contra... Treasonous acts that are let to slide...no big deal huh?  Who knows if someone is getting hurt because of his mouth, and yet, nothing...  The silence is very annoying...as our country drops into a stinking sea of muck.


One more thing, gt. sm
Of all the people on these boards, YOUR opinion of me is the one I value the least. 
Oh, and one more thing, gt. sm
Clnton signed Kyoto in 1997, only because he knew that the Senate would not ratify it.  He was right.  They voted 95-0 AGAINST Kyoto.  Why?   Because it would have required signatory nations to significantly cut greenhouse gases resulting from the burning of fosil fuels.  Because ratifying the treaty would have required a large reduction in the use of fossil fuels that we use to our our economy.  Until there is an alternative fuel source that is better than gold old fashioned coal and oil, restricting our economy's ability to burn these fuels would CRIPPLE US AS A NATION.  You are not seeing the total picture here, you simply cannot be seeing it.  I know the left's hatred for capitalism has blinded them to the fact that without our economy, we collapse.  It really is that simple.  We would be reduced to a third world nation in a very short period of time and you and I would not be sitting here writing on our computers because our world as we know it would change.   Yes, it really is all about oil.   But not the way you think.
and another thing
we aren't controlling anybody.  There are several countries in this world where you are controlled, but this ain't one of them. 
One more thing:

I apologize for the length of my post, but so far, I still have freedom of speech.


Guess I just feel the need to get it all out before that freedom suddenly disappears, as well.  The majority of Americans don't agree with Bush, and we all know how he/his thugs handle people who dare to disagree with him.  If you don't believe me, just ask John McCain and/or Valerie Plame.


I'd like to add one more thing.

If these alleged WMDs are so widespread and so easily accessible in Iraq, why aren't any of them being used on our soldiers?


Honestly, that's one of the very first fears I had when I heard we were going to war with Iraq (when I still believed the reasons given by the president and supported the invasion based on those reasons).  I had visions of massive troop deaths at the hands of Iraqis and these WMDs.


Did that happen?


OK. Here's the thing...sm
Because we've been through this before and I feel a repeat coming on. I'm respectful and nice to everyone on these boards 99% of the time. People come over to the liberal board and pretend they are moderates or just want to *debate.* When all the time they are anti-everything liberal and have no intention of seeing the liberal point of view. In the end, they end up *insulted* off of the board and run to the other board and have a sling fest. Yawn. They have revelations over there contrary to the beliefs they portrayed on this board. So really I'm skeptical about debating with the like. You may be 100% different worldfan, but from your posts on the Conservative and News boards it would appear you would be more at home on the conservative board giving them a high five about what's going on over here. Just my observation.

I used to post on the conservative board but I left because they were getting too extreme for my liking. It's that simple. There are some topics over there that I would reply too, but I don't b/c of past comments made over there, which have made me stick to the liberal page. However, on quite a few issues I am far from liberal like abortion and fiscal spending.

I hope you get my points. If not, we don't have anything more to discuss.
Sorry. Here's the whole thing.

I was trying to avoid this but the link is not working for some reason.








































 
Common

 
     

 

Tuesday, July 04, 2006  
 
   Headlines  
 
 
 
















Published on Monday, July 3, 2006 by Agence France Presse

Britons Tire of Cruel, Vulgar US: Poll

 
People in Britain view the United States as a vulgar, crime-ridden society obsessed with money and led by an incompetent president whose Iraq policy is failing, according to a newspaper poll.

The United States is no longer a symbol of hope to Britain and the British no longer have confidence in their transatlantic cousins to lead global affairs, according to the poll published in The Daily Telegraph.










...a majority of the Britons described Americans as uncaring, divided by class, awash in violent crime, vulgar, preoccupied with money, ignorant of the outside world, racially divided, uncultured and in the most overwhelming result (90 percent of respondents) dominated by big business.
src=http://www.commondreams.org/images/endquote.gif
 
The YouGov poll found that 77 percent of respondents disagreed with the statement that the US is a beacon of hope for the world.


As Americans prepared to celebrate the 230th anniversary of their independence on Tuesday, the poll found that only 12 percent of Britons trust them to act wisely on the global stage. This is half the number who had faith in the Vietnam-scarred White House of 1975.


A massive 83 percent of those questioned said that the United States doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks.


With much of the worst criticism aimed at the US adminstration, the poll showed that 70 percent of Britons like Americans a lot or a little.


US President George W. Bush fared significantly worse, with just one percent rating him a great leader against 77 percent who deemed him a pretty poor or terrible leader.


More than two-thirds who offered an opinion said America is essentially an imperial power seeking world domination. And 81 per cent of those who took a view said President George W Bush hypocritically championed democracy as a cover for the pursuit of American self-interests.


US policy in Iraq was similarly derided, with only 24 percent saying they felt that the US military action there was helping to bring democracy to the country.


A spokesman for the American embassy said that the poll's findings were contradicted by its own surveys.


We question the judgment of anyone who asserts the world would be a better place with Saddam still terrorizing his own nation and threatening people well beyond Iraq's borders, the paper quoted the unnamed spokesman as saying.


With respect to the poll's assertions about American society, we bear some of the blame for not successfully communicating America's extraordinary dynamism.


But frankly, so do you (the British press).


In answer to other questions, a majority of the Britons questions described Americans as uncaring, divided by class, awash in violent crime, vulgar, preoccupied with money, ignorant of the outside world, racially divided, uncultured and in the most overwhelming result (90 percent of respondents) dominated by big business.


Copyright © 2006 Agence France Presse


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I would like to know the same thing.nm
12
The thing that got me was this...sm
This totally counts out everyday Joes. And those with a couple million to run. A half a billion dollars is a lot of money.
One last thing.....
Your argument might hold more water if I thought for one minute liberals understood that it was Michael Moore's OPINION and not the truth (but why should they, because he frames as the truth). I think, if you truly understand that, you are in the minority.
One more thing...
I asked the last poster to bring me one example of a Democrat who, when caught in wrongdoing, has resigned. Just one. She has not come back with one, even though I named several who should have. As I stated, the only Democrat I know of who resigned from anything resigned because he was coming out of the closet, and I find that ludicrous. The man should not have resigned because he was gay. For felony perjury, yes. For obstruction of justice, yes. Remember please the congressman who actually had a homosexual affair with an underage page (male). No Democratic outrage. He stood right up and said he was an adult and it was consensual and that had nothing to do with his job as a Congressman. No Democratic outrage. In fact, he was re-elected. Yes, that was several years ago, but all that proves is that the Democratic moral compass went wonky several years ago. It is not a recent thing, it is just getting worse and worse and worse. Stop please dancing around the subject, and please to bring forth one or two Democrats who have actually resigned and admitted wrongdoing? And while you are at it, Republicans who were caught and still hold office? I would be very willing to read and re-assess. Try for one minute to take off the liberal hat and look at it objectively. It is case after case after case...Clinton, Ted Kennedy, Alcee Hastings, William Jefferson, and on and on the list goes....in fact, Alcee Hastings was removed as a Federal Judge for bribery and perjury..see below.

In 1988, the Democratic-controlled U.S. House of Representatives took up the case, and Hastings was impeached for bribery and perjury by a vote of 413-3. Voters to impeach included Reps. Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer, John Conyers and Charles Rangel. He was then convicted in 1989 by the United States Senate, becoming only the sixth federal judge in the history of the United States to be removed from office by the Senate. The Senate had the option to forbid Hastings from ever seeking federal office again, but did not do so. Alleged co-conspirator William Borders went to jail again for refusing to testify in the impeachment proceedings, but was later given a full pardon by Bill Clinton on his last day in office.

Ain't that special?? And just proves the point.
How did I get into this thing..

I have not said anything about regime change for months, years. I said Iraq was on the table before 9/11 solely to illuminate the fact that 9/11 set the stage for what some had been wanting to do for a long time. My intent was to emphasize that this administration used 9/11 as a way to garner support from Congress and the American people for the switch from Afghanistan to Iraq. If 9/11 had not happened, there would never have been support for a preemptive war in Iraq nor do I believe we would have supported going after bin Laden. It took something monumental for the American people to be willing to go to war.


How do you know Clinton is my favorite president?? I think he was a good president and I was doing a lot better when he was in office but you assume much here. In my lifetime I think maybe JFK was my favorite president (I was about 10 years old and I remember him as bigger than life) and one of the reasons for that was that he inspired us. I don't think anyone has really done that since, made us think and feel like we could do anything. It really has been downhill since Watergate.


I will cease and desist from regime change rhetoric if I never have to hear the words spew or ooze again.


How did I get in this thing....

I have not said anything about regime change for months, years. I said Iraq was on the table before 9/11 solely to illuminate the fact that 9/11 set the stage for what some had been wanting to do for a long time.


My point was that it is not only *this* administration.  Clinton felt strongly enough about Iraq and regime change, as did the Congress at that time, to enact a LAW calling for regime change.  So Iraq was on the table then.  The articles posted would lead you to believe that liberals/Democrats never called for regime change.  They are the instigating part of the *some* you speak of.  And if you will read Clinton's speech at the time, if you did not know he gave it, you would think Bush might have, because the content is eerily similar.  It is just odd to me that liberals were on board for WMD, on board for regime change, on board for force, on board for ALL of it when Clinton was calling for it.  How do liberals manage that massive flip flop?  I remember Clinton's speech well.  It was one of the few times that I agreed with what he was doing and saying.


My intent was to emphasize that this administration used 9/11 as a way to garner support from Congress and the American people for the switch from Afghanistan to Iraq. If 9/11 had not happened, there would never have been support for a preemptive war in Iraq nor do I believe we would have supported going after bin Laden. It took something monumental for the American people to be willing to go to war.  Okay.  I get it.  3000 people dying here was not enough to make liberals willing to go to war.  What, in the name of the Almighty, is, I am wondering.


How do you know Clinton is my favorite president?? I think he was a good president and I was doing a lot better when he was in office but you assume much here. I was being facetious...he seems to be the posterboy for liberals.  I apologize.  I will not refer to him as YOUR favorite President anymore.  Glad though that you validated what I have said on numerous occasions, that liberals are about what is good for them individually...I am glad you personally were doing better when he was President. 


In my lifetime I think maybe JFK was my favorite president (I was about 10 years old and I remember him as bigger than life) and one of the reasons for that was that he inspired us. I don't think anyone has really done that since, made us think and feel like we could do anything. It really has been downhill since Watergate. Maybe it has gone downhill for you since watergate.  Personally I think it started downhill then, and made a huge massive slide with Monicagate and a sitting President committing felony perjury.  However, I do not hold the country responsible for that as you seem to.  I hold the individuals...Nixon and Clinton...responsible.  At least Nixon had a modicum of grace to say he was wrong and resign when caught.  Clinton has done neither and his party has not expected him to and has in fact defended him.  You will never hear me defend either of them.



I will cease and desist from regime change rhetoric if I never have to hear the words spew or ooze again.  I believe it was one on the liberal board who started the *spew* and *ooze* and the only time I have used those words was again, being facetious, in reply to the ones who used them.  I personally did not start the use of those.   In fact, I think her words were *spew venom* (ick).  As to cease and desist, go ahead with the regime change rhetoric if you like.  We know it did not originate with Bush, not opinion, matter of law.  No spin, hard fact.


Have a good day.


The right thing to do is...
allow everyone to vote.  No one needs to step down.  And I do not support either of them.  I supported Ron Paul when he was in the race.
One more thing
He keeps flashing a pic of himself when he was a young guy in the military. Almost every commercial of him shows him when he was younger, and in fact one of his ads on this website shows him a young guy in the military. He's now old and he should have a current picture. What's next, Barack putting up adds with his high school senior pic? How about Hillary running with a picture of her in grade school. The guy is old and if he's so confident in himself he should have a current pic of him. He's no longer younger and he doesn't have the mind of someone younger.
You did no such thing since he never said that.
I did do my research and so did the author of "comparative drug use." above. FYI: Crack/free-base cocaine and cocaine hydrochloride are not the same. One is pure, the other a compound. The addition of hydrochloride gives the intranasal compound a completely different chemical make-up that does not have the same effect. It is slower on the uptake and clears the system much faster than the cocaine base (giving it less of an addictive potential) . The pure free base/crack cocaine DOES NOT WORK when it is snorted, since the absorption is obstructed when it is attacked by enzymes via the nasal route. Method of delivery does matter, in terms of drug effect, absorption, drug life and addiction potential. If you are an MT, you know where to go to verify this information.

I am aware of what he said and did not say in his book. I have nothing to add to the "comparative drug use" post in that regard. Furthermore, there is nothing inaccurate in my original post. There is a pervert on a right-wing fringe blog who made these unsubstantiated claims about his witnessed account of "sharing" cocaine with Obama and having homosexual sex with him. He has also been discredited and has a wrap sheet a mile long. Does not seem like a credible observation from a credible source. That's all I said. I did not deny, nor did I acknowledge whether or not Obama used cocaine. My comments referred to how information is extracted from legitimate sources (in this case, straight from the horse's mouth), twisted and manipulated by perverts and right-wing blogsters in desperate efforts to smear somebody's character when they are unable to engage themselves directly in legitimate policy issues. The "character" card, whether played by one party or the other, is really a lame strategy that prevents productive, progressive approaches to issues and solutions to problems of dire importance to us AS A NATION, not as party affiliates.
That is the best thing you

can come up with?  Let us forget Obama's association with Ayers or his 20-year membership to a church that preached hate messages......let's just focus on McCain calling his wife a C unt shall we.  Sheesh......If he thought so little of women, he would never have chose one to run as his VP.


In all seriousness though, why is c unt such an offensive word?  Who dictates words and which ones are bad?  Who decided that the F bomb was bad?  Who determined what words were considered swear words?  If I called someone a poop head and then called someone a c unt, they are both supposed to insult...are they not.....so why is one worse than the other and who determined that?


At least she is doing the right thing
She is going to have the baby and not kill it
well, the one thing that the VP has is...
the deciding vote if there is a tie in Congress, and with a majority dem congress that is not a bad thing.. :)

Yep, I agree with the "gimme" attitude. I call it being all about me, me, me. Don't get me wrong, I believe some social programs are necessary because there are people who, through no fault of their own whether mental disability or physical disability, cannot work. And I think we should take care of our fellow man to that extent. However, those who are fully capable of working and choose not to, and we have to subsidize their housing, their groceries, and give them a check every month...that needs to stop.

Have a wonderful day!
yes, SP did the right thing!!
x
One more thing....sm
McCain isn't "my hero" per se.... -- my first choice was Romney, and we all know where that went....lol....

But John McCain is this country's hero, whether you agree or admit it. He simply is, and was. Period. You can't take that away from him.

And I'll tell you who "sat around and watch a city drown." I think that pretty much covers what the entire nation did, as the nonstop coverage of that event was depicted...actually, I think the whole world watched, not just us. One of our tragedies, but you can't lay that completely at McCain or Bush's feet. It's been covered before her ad nauseum, and I think most agree, if the dem gov and dem mayor would have acted preemptively, as happened this weekend in both LA and TX, a lot of that would have been averted. No need to cover this ground again, really. I get your point of view though, so no need to expound.



Bummer....now I betcha won't answer my other question on SNL....rats, I really wanted to know too....lol....I used to love SNL with the first crew was on there with Chevy, Belushi, Gilda Radner, and all those first not ready for prime time players.

LOL! I can add one more thing to that -
To paraphrase the Beach Boys:

'and she had fun, fun, fun,
'til her mommy took her condom a-wayyyyyy!!!'


Is that a bad thing?
Should he have just attacked, attacked, attacked? Doesn't matter what he does, it is wrong, I guess. I would rather have somebody who can say Yeah, we disagree on some things, but here is where we agree. Isn't that what bipartisanship is about?
Whatever they do there is one thing for sure
It will not benefit "we the people."  This bail-out is absurd.  Our local bank president is a personal friend.  Talking to her the other day she said there are no problems there and it's business as usual, loans being made just the same.  Now that doesn't add up to the scare tactics we hear from the jerk-off politicians.  JMO but I think this is G.W.'s last great assist to his Wall Street buddies.  One party is as bad as the other and they all benefit from what goes on on Wall Street.  They'll pass some kind of bail-out and this country will be bankrupted.  No money, no jobs.  Their bail-out is not going to help the situation any more than the rebates did.  Just borrow more money and throw it away.  I hope eventually enough people will get totally disgusted and then maybe we can take back our government.  Everyone wants "help."  Well, those who bit off mortgages they couldn't afford, tough toenails, suffer the consequences.  We may as well start learning to spell GREATER DEPRESSION, worse than the 30s because,  folks, that is what is coming.  The Republicans will keep on blaming the Democrats and the Democrats will keep on blaming the Republicans.  ALL of our elected politicians ought to be tried and hung for treason!!  The best I know to do is vote against EVERY incumbent.  I am far from excited about Obama but I will vote for  him because he is not a Republican.  Any Democrat running for anything I will vote for the Republican.  That's the best I can think of at the moment to try to change.  We all need to quit bickering about "Republican" and "Democrat" and start thinking as AMERICANS!  If someone can build a better mousetrap than what I plan to do I'll be first in line to buy it.  Something HAS to be done and we don't need to start in arguing about who should get a free  handout.  The truth is NO ONE should get a free handout, other than the aged and infirm!
One other thing to think about . . .

Also need to think about the what if . . .?  What happens if Obama is elected and all these crazy radicals/extremists/racists in this country take him out, or GOD FORBID, if McCain is elected, (and I don't think an 80-year-old man is going to make it through 4 years), then that thing he picked as runny mate would step in as president?  Let's see, Palin or Biden?  There's a no brainer!!!  Mark my words, Palin beliefs would regress his country 30-50 years.  We don't need a self-righteous religious fanatic in the White House.  What ever happened to separation of church and state??


they run the whole thing

It's the old line "you get what you pay for" here.  Imagine it changes to SM tomorrow.  You wouldn't have the option to stay with the physicians you now have (unless a pure accident or coincidence).  Gone would be the choices you now have, which are pitiful as the system is now.  I still long for the days when we purchased our ins. the same as we do our car ins., cable co., etc.  In the ྌs and beyond I had BCBS.  I selected the doctors I wanted, and didn't worry about looking for who was on my (my list?  ha!) list closest to my home, etc. 


A friend of mine lived in Canada for awhile and while there her daughter got DXd with cancer and ended up with an amputated leg.  She said it was a horrible system, and would never again do it...and she didn't.  She had no control over her choices up there.  No doubt you've heard of the many people who come here for surgery, etc. for the same reasons.  Again, everyone's trying to get IN to the US, not out...


Does that help?  Please don't be swayed by the spin.  Anytime the gov't controls something, whether it be your healthcare to your home, you're no longer in control of it.


My thing is
that God gives life, not us. We are merely the vessels. Therefore what he gives we cannot take away. Well, excuse me, should not.

I think that if someone doesn't believe in God they are still very much bound by his laws, they just break them left and right.

I have quite a few reasons for not voting for Obama, but on the instance of abortion, I don't believe it is our right to put away what God has brought into being.

What really bothers me though is that Obama supports the "just born abortions" (I can't remember what they are called). To me, if your going to carry the child for 9 months, why kill it at the end? If you've gone through all that, at least give it up for adoption and give it a chance!

I completely agree, Mccain is not much better. I'm sure for the most part it will end up being politics as usual. I think he would like to make changes, but to me the President has become nothing more than a mouthpiece. He will fall in line with the majority. Obama, on the other hand, bothers me because for one, he rose to the top way to quickly. Two, he is not very patriotic and neither is his wife. Three, I think in his pursuit of getting "the people" to cheer him on he is going to do some very stupid things (like sitting down with terrorists. So what, then they can kidnap him and hold him ransom?) Four, there is no way he got to the top that quickly on his own. Therefore, he owes people. It bothers me to think of which ones he owes.

There are others but I'll stop there since a lot of them have already been beaten to death on this board.

To bad we as Americans couldn't all band together and put "one of our own" in there. Write in a middle aged lower-middle class construction worker from Tennessee, or an old cowboy from Texas (not related to Bush of course!) Someone without money, or a background in politics, or a personal agenda. Then we would really see change!
And another thing
What is he going to do about exporting jobs out of our country?  Have you checked the job seekers board lately?  Over 2000 hits on some of the ads.  Read the company board?  Seems no one has any work.  And McCain promises to be the biggest free trader of all times.  Yup, that's very good for the economy.
The thing is....sm
she is trying to show everyone that Obama has terrorist links. Bottom line is no matter what he SAYS he is going to do, if he is a terrorist, you should not believe him. Of course a terrorist would say what you want to hear. Of course they would send someone with the appropriate appearance and eloquence of speech. At this point it does not even matter if McCaine does anything he says at all...because ANYTHING beats having a terrorist as our president.
The sad thing is...
It's so true no matter who gets in!