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One of the earlier "kill him" incidents happened

Posted By: in Clearwater, Florida. nm on 2008-10-16
In Reply to: You must be referring to the Scranton rally (2nd report). - The 1st incident as seen on youtube is still....sm

nm


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Excuse me while I cry foul over "kill him" and
lynch mob mentality IS alive and well in the McC camp. For those of us who are old enough to remember the 60s, John Lewis is right on with his reminder of what this sort of "enthusiasm" can lead to...and so is this poster.
Looks like the "kill em" statement is untrue

I'll attach the link, but in summary the Secret Service said the "kill em" allegation is unfounded.


News organizations including ABC, The Associated Press, The Washington Monthly and MSNBC’s Countdown with Keith Olbermann reported the claim, with most attributing the allegations to the Times-Tribune story.


Agent Bill Slavoski said he was in the audience, along with an undisclosed number of additional secret service agents and other law enforcement officers and not one heard the comment.


How much more is the Obama campaign going to invent.  First they try to make it about race when its not.  Now they try to say someone said "kill em" when Obama's name in mentioned yet nobody heard it.


It sure is getting nasty.


NO "Kill Him" or "Off with his Head"...
"A couple of days ago, David Singleton of the Scranton Times-Tribune reported that somebody shouted 'kill him' about Barack Obama at a McCain-Palin rally in Scranton, Pennsylvania, while Republican congressional candidate Chris Hackett spoke. But today Andrew Cedar of the Wilkes-Barre Times Leader reports that not a single person interviewed by the Secret Service heard this outburst."


"Secret Service Agent Bill Slavoski said he was in the audience, along with an undisclosed number of additional secret service agents and other law enforcement officers and not one heard the comment. 'I was baffled,' he said after reading the report in Wednesday's Times-Tribune of Scranton. He said the agency conducted an investigation Wednesday, after seeing the story, and could not find one person to corroborate the allegation other than the reporter," David Singleton of the Scranton Times-Tribune. Slavoski said that more than 20 nonsecurity agents were interviewed Wednesday from news media to ordinary citizens in attendance at the rally he said Singleton was the only one to say he heard somebody yell kill him. 'We've yet to find anybody to back up the story,' Slavoski said. 'We had people all over. We have yet to find anyone who said they heard it.'"


I, too, heard someone yell "kill him" . . .
it was very clear on the news clip.  I agree with gourdpainter -- I am afraid of all the loonies that have been specifically targeted by the McCain camp for the sole purpose of inciting these blood-thirsty crazies, and hope to God there are none of you supporting this kind of  despicable behavior.
Does John McCain "kill you," too?

I am prepared. I need no on-the-job training. I wasn't a mayor for a short period of time. I wasn't a governor for a short period of time. (John McCain, October 21, 2007, describing how he's ready to lead on day one, before selecting his running mate who was a mayor for a short period of time and a governor for a short period of time).


McCain supporters shouting "Kill him" at his
rallies. What is that about??? That scares me.
OK. In he midst of "kill him" and "off with his head"
we have an antecdotal incident where, in the absence of taped evidence, it is essentially one person's word against another. Here's a woman who has obviously bought into some of this hate rhetoric by responding to the question by calling Obama a socialist and baby killer.

Without a tape, there is no way to know presisely what this woman may or may not have said to the campaign worker. However, I am not surprised that in the current volatile environment, whipped up by an "energized" Christian right-wing McCain/Palin base, campaign workers are instructed to report any PERCEIVED death threats that in turn get passed on to the Secret Service for disposition.

If this woman makes statements to a newspaper reporter during a routine interview such as "panties in a bundle," when describing an Obama supporter, there is no telling what she is capable of saying when her own drawers are in an uproar.

I for one am grateful that the SS is airing on the side of caution...after all, it is their job. I am old enough to remember the non-stop democratic leadership assassignations of the 60s and the hate speech that prevailed during those times. BTW, we live in a post 911 Patriot Act world here where the shrub and his cronies would have us believe we are surrounded by home grown terrorists.
Like your no-class group that shouted "Kill Him" regarding O at a GOP rally? With Palin? or
don't you remember that? Bunch of hypocrites - you guys dish it but you sure don't like to take it.
I saw this earlier. sm
Practicing for martial law maybe? Notice the term 'homeland' - makes me think of Nazis and Communists.




Well, what he said earlier was
He wanted EVERYONE to have the same great health care plan everyone on capitol hill has.......then he did't say that anymore.....hmmmmm
Again as I posted earlier
UAW was offered pay rates as they are paid to American workers who work in the U.S. for foreign auto companies, i.e. workers in Indiana who work for Honda and Toyata. This would surely NOT be the same as our working for the same rates as Indian MTs. That would be crazy. Don't even suggest it.
I have brought it up earlier on here but
O lovers immediately jumped on the Palin bandwagon again. They are so worried about Palin being a "heartbeat away from possibly being president" but they couldn't care less than Biden may very well be just a heartbeat away....period!

They seem to think Obama will live forever, even though both his parents died young AND he was a heavy smoker, drugger, and drinker.
They seem to have no concern about that.


I saw this on TV earlier today...
... right before I threw my shoe at the TV set.
this proves my earlier

post about the popularity of Fox News and the country being a majority of dullards.  Not enough information to understand the debates on Meet The Press or other actual news programs, so watch 2 clowns argue.  When finished, turn on the wrasslin' channel.


 


I am the one who replied to you earlier.

God forbid I step away from my computer to take my son swimming and didn't answer your post before I did so. 


I am not a republican.  I used to be until the past administration and now I've pretty much said to heck with both parties.  If you wish to talk to terrorists and if that is what Obama wants to do....more power to you.  I will say a little prayer that your head stays attacked to your body when you go to talk to the very people who HATE us.  This isn't fearmongering....that is fact...plain and simple and YOU are so busy spewing democratic ideology that I'm about to vomit over here. 


And for the last friggin time.....TERRORISTS ARE NOT COVERED UNDER THE GENEVA CONVENTION!!!!!  Regardless of whether we captured them and held them forever, whether we tortured them, or whether we just said to he!! with it and shot them dead......they would still hate us.  Us being all sweet and nice is making them think nothing more than we are a bunch of friggin pu$$ies and why should they worry about being captured because their pal Obama will take care of them.  Give me a break.  The next time you jump down someone's throat and give them he!! because you think they are spewing republican values.......why don't you look in a mirror and see that all you do is regurgitate the BS that MSNBC and mainstream media dish out.  Oh....but don't watch Fox even though the ratings are way better than anything you watch because they obviously don't know what they are talking about even though more people seem to be relating themselves to that network than any other. 


So go on with your democratic rhetoric about how Bush is to blame and Obama will not only save our country but the world and we will all be peaceful and harmonious with one another and skip around and giggling....oh happy day....yippee.......(PUKE)


I was thinking about this very thing earlier. sm
There is a great plan and things happen for a reason.  I have faith and trust in Him, too.  We are blessed!  
I heard that earlier. I believe he is sincere...
it is a historic thing that will happen and I think acknowledging it is the right thing to do. Good for McCain.
Yes you did, in an earlier post you claimed to be one

You posted this earlier today and got
But thanks for trying.
Poll from earlier today

I am encouraged by the responses to this poll.  I think that SOME Republicans and those who support McCain/Palin are sincere in their beliefs the same as supporters of Obama/Biden are sincere in their beliefs.  Those who just said "McCain" don't appear to have any reason other than I would assume, that he is the Republican candidate.  There were also those who had reasons but then referred back to the rumors and repeated the charges of Marxist, Socialist, etc. etc.


What has heartened me is I am convinced we are all AMERICANS first and we all love our country.  I alwo believe that "we the people" will come together after this horrible election and raise our voices until ALL politicians listen to us.  That is my HOPE.


Good night all.


Yeah, and she went a step further earlier and said...(sm)

in her own words *Can you not see what is happening?  Hitler was elected into office during a democratic state.  I am not saying that O is Hitler, what I am saying is that someone with such extreme ideas has been elected to the highest power and there are many signs pointing to the fact that we are going to see some changes that even those that voted for him are not going to  like.*  That's in the *I am a democrat* post.


Just because you say you didn't call him Hitler right after you did, doesn't mean you didn't do it in the first place.


You must have missed my earlier post.
There are plenty of places to go for accurate information on this, so quite whining about media silence. You just don't know where to look. Try the world wide web for a change.

Here ya go. Just a few examples for you to mull over.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAieKGwQp-s
In the flesh interview with Dr. Larry Hunter, influential conservative economist, talks about why he endorses Obama. Interview starts @ 1:25 into the clip.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2009-01-08-obama-economy_N.htm
Conservative economist Martin Feldstein agrees that "reviving the economy requires a major fiscal stimulus from tax cuts and increased government spending."

For now, most conservative Republicans who could try to block the new Democratic president's plan are willing to boost red ink. Armed with an electoral mandate and faced with a mammoth recession, Obama is being given a wide berth by the GOP. "We need to govern," says Sen. Judd Gregg, R-N.H., top Republican on the Senate Budget Committee. "These issues are so huge and are going to have such a devastating impact on our nation if they're not aggressively and boldly addressed, that we can't afford for this just to be a party-line event."

... but even conservative economists agree a huge stimulus package with a variety of spending initiatives is needed. "I have just two words: big and everything," says Martin Regalia, VP, Economic and Tax Policy and chief economist for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE49U3DC20081031
The endorsement from the Economist (a virtual bastion of conservatives) raised a few eyebrows.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/113701/Majority-Americans-Favor-775-Billion-Economic-Stimulus.aspx
This kind of support is at least as significant as that of conservative economists.

Ain't cut and paste grand?
I saw the original of this earlier today. sm
I was so upset I wanted to call CNN and tell them in no uncertain terms that they needed to fire that wench and get somebody who would let the people talk without being interrupted. Personally, if it had been me she was haranging, I would be in jail because I probably would have swung at her.

That woman is worse than Rachel Maddow, Anderson Cooper, and others of her ilk. SHe gives the honest, hardworking reporters a bad name.

No wonder the alphabet soup and MSM groups have lost any and all credibility.


Earlier poster was right....America did NOT win!
nm
I was making reference to an earlier conversation...sm
Look it up.
So didn't somebody on this board state earlier that
*
Thank you, I alluded to the same thing in an earlier post...

why should those of us who have built something from our hard work and determination pay for those who have no ambition or drive and only feel a sense of entitlement, jealousy and anger towards those who are doing the right thing? Most people would be in much better financial shape and would be able to get through tough economic times if they just prepared before hand. Remember saving for a rainy day? Well it's pouring right now and I dare say a lot of people have not had to change their lifestyle because they were prepared. There is no incentive in socialism to work hard or save money. Laziness will be rewarded from the sweat of my back. You don't deserve my piece of the pie that I paid for!


 


I guess I missed your earlier post....sm
because I'm not the 1 poster who did respond, lol. I am an Independent who happens to be voting Rebulican this election year (but I guess that is no secret, lol).

I agree....If a person, no matter who it is, is found to be constitutionally ineligible to hold the office of POUS then he/she should be impeached on grounds of treason and jailed immediately.
Or at leat degrading ones like tried to be posted earlier
NM
I think it wasn't discovered earlier for several reasons. sm
Iwas a healthy 20-something, no risk factors nor known; no particular reason to do US. Back in the day, US wasn't done routinely like now.

If any good could have come from it, I would have let it go to full-term, but you are not allowed to donate organs from an anencephalic child after birth. Maybe that has changed.

As for Patty - wow, if you are an example of pro-life / christian values, I don't want in to *your* heaven. Why do you get to judge me? Isnt' that between me and God?
From the Christian Science Monitor earlier this year












from the March 16, 2005 edition - http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0316/p16s01-lire.html


For evangelicals, a bid to 'reclaim America'


The Center aims to increase its 500,000-strong e-mail army to 1 million, and to encourage Christians to run for office. It has plans for 12 regional offices and activists in all 435 US House districts. And a new lobbying arm in Washington will target judicial nominations and the battle over marriage.


If they don't vote our way, we'll change their view one way or another, executive director Gary Cass tells the group. As a California pastor, Dr. Cass spearheaded efforts to close abortion clinics and recruit Christians to seek positions on local school boards. We're going to take back what we lost in the last half of the 20th century, he adds.


For the faithful who gathered in Florida last month, the goal is not just to convert individuals - but to reshape US society.


By Jane Lampman | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor


FORT LAUDERDALE, FLA. - For the Reback daughters, the big attraction was the famous Ten Commandments monument, brought to Florida on tour after being removed from the Alabama judicial building as unconstitutional. The youngsters - dressed in red, white, and blue - clustered proudly around the display.


For more than 900 other Christians from across the US, the draw at Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church last month was a national conference aimed at reclaiming America for Christ. The monument stood as a potent symbol of their hopes for changing the course of the nation.


We have God-sized problems in our country, and only God can solve them, Richard Land, a prominent leader of the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC), told the group.


Their mission is not simply to save souls. The goal is to mobilize evangelical Christians for political action to return society to what they call the biblical worldview of the Founding Fathers. Some speak of restoring a Christian nation. Others shy from that phrase, but agree that the Bible calls them not only to evangelize, but also to transform the culture.


In material given to conference attendees, the Rev. D. James Kennedy, Coral Ridge pastor wrote: As the vice-regents of God, we are to bring His truth and His will to bear on every sphere of our world and our society. We are to exercise godly dominion and influence over our neighborhoods, our schools, our government ... our entertainment media, our news media, our scientific endeavors - in short, over every aspect and institution of human society.


This is the 10th conference to spread this cultural mandate among Christians, and although the church's pastor couldn't speak due to illness, others presented the message intended to rouse the conservative faithful, eager to capitalize on gains won during the November election.


This melding of religion and politics, Christianity and patriotism, makes many uneasy, particularly those on the other side of the so-called culture war, who see a threat to the healthy discourse of a pluralistic society.


This is an effort to impose a particular far-right religious view, and political and social policies that result from that, on others, says Elliot Mincberg of People for the American Way, a group that advocates for a diverse society. There's nothing wrong with trying to convince others to adopt their views, but [Dr. Kennedy's] effort is also to use the levers of government to force changes.


An energetic pastor who built Coral Ridge into a 10,000-member megachurch with far-reaching radio and TV audiences, the Rev. Dr. Kennedy regularly calls the US a Christian nation that should be governed by Christians. He has created a Center for Christian Statesmanship in Washington that seeks to evangelize members of Congress and their staffs, and to counsel conservative Christian officeholders.


Some critics suggest these views reflect far-right Presbyterian thinking, some of which extends to the realm of theocracy, the belief that God - or His representatives - should govern the state.


Frederick Carlson, author of Eternal Hostility: the Struggle between Theocracy and Democracy, says that if Kennedy is not a theocrat, he is certainly a dominionist, one who supports taking over and dominating the political process.


Kennedy is not in the theocratic camp, says John Aman, Coral Ridge spokesman. He does believe that Christians should not sequester themselves inside their stained-glass ghettoes, but seek to be 'salt and light' - apply biblical moral truth and the Gospel - to every area of society.


It's apparent that those who've traveled here from 40 states are eager to do just that. Many of them say they are most motivated by signs of moral decline in America, concern for their children's future, and what they see as an effort to keep God and religious speech out of public life.


The country is getting further away from Christian values, and we're being stifled, says Debbie Mochle-Young, of Santa Monica, Calif. Other nationalities are coming to live here and say, 'We want our beliefs,' but they don't let you have yours. Nathan Lepper, an Air Force retiree active in politics in Florida, says he has a personal passion to help America turn back to its moral and ethical bases.


Some are already involved in their communities - in antiabortion actions, in trying to prevent removal of feeding tubes from Terri Schiavo, or in efforts to oppose same-sex marriage by defining marriage as only between a man and a woman.


Gabriel Carpenter, from Dryden, N.Y., works at a local crisis pregnancy center and is a coordinator for the now-required sexual abstinence program in New York public schools. He and his wife, Penelope, say they hope to learn more about how to share America's Christian heritage with others.


Christianity and patriotism are interwoven throughout the gathering, from Christian and American flags marched into the sanctuary, to red, white, and blue banners festooning the church complex, to a rousing patriotic concert. Several speakers emphasize the idea that America's founders were largely Christian and that their intent was to establish a biblically based nation. (No mention is made of other influences on the Founding Fathers, such as Englightenment thinkers or issues of freedom of conscience.)


David Barton, a leading advocate for emphasizing Christianity in US history, deftly selects quotes from letters and historical documents to link major historical figures such as George Washington to a Christian vision, and to suggest that the courts and scholars in the last century have deliberately undermined the original intent of the Founding Fathers.


Critics, including historians and the Baptist Joint Committee, challenge the accuracy of some of Mr. Barton's work, including what he calls the myth of separation of church and state.


In Blessed Assurance: A History of Evangelicalism in America, religious historian Randall Balmer of Columbia University writes that a contrived mythology about America's Christian origins has been a factor in the reentry of evangelicals into political life, helping sustain the conservative swing in American politics. Barton and others say they are recapturing truths hidden behind a secularist version of history, while critics say they are producing revisionist history that cherry-picks facts and ignores historical evidence.


But Barton is clearly a favorite speaker, with a theme buttressing the identity and purpose of those eager to reform the country. And there's plenty for them to do. Coral Ridge's Center for Reclaiming America is building a grass-roots alliance around five issues: the sanctity of life, religious liberty, pornography, the homosexual agenda, and creation vs. evolution.


The Center aims to increase its 500,000-strong e-mail army to 1 million, and to encourage Christians to run for office. It has plans for 12 regional offices and activists in all 435 US House districts. And a new lobbying arm in Washington will target judicial nominations and the battle over marriage.


If they don't vote our way, we'll change their view one way or another, executive director Gary Cass tells the group. As a California pastor, Dr. Cass spearheaded efforts to close abortion clinics and recruit Christians to seek positions on local school boards. We're going to take back what we lost in the last half of the 20th century, he adds.


Taking back is a major theme - taking back the schools, the media, the courts.


It's time to take back the portals of power, and particularly those of commerce, because commerce controls all the gates - to government, the courts, and so on, says businessman Michael Pink in a workshop. Recounting his own business success based on in-depth Bible study, Mr. Pink says he's now urging wealthy Christian businessmen to start using their earnings to purchase such prizes as ABC and NBC.


Interspersed between worshipful singing, prominent activist leaders tout recent successes. Alan Sears of the Alliance Defense Fund, who has led the charge in the states against same-sex marriage, talks of victories in Ohio and California and the phalanx of 800 lawyers now trained for the fight across the US. Tim Wildmon of the American Family Association highlights growing impact on the entertainment industry, from spurring FCC regulatory actions against broadcast indecency to causing major companies to pull their ads from TV programs.


Yet it's the most combative language that brings the crowd to its feet in applause: Judicial activists are running rampant and a God-free country is their goal.... All means to turn the tide must be considered, including their removal, urges the Rev. Rick Scarborough, founder of Vision America, which mobilizes patriot pastors across the US.


SBC's Dr. Land, credited with helping to turn out evangelical voters in the 2004 election, says Kennedy's conferences have an impact: No one has been more important in helping Christians of every denominational persuasion understand first, their evangelistic responsibility ... and then their responsibility to be salt and light in the world.


Others suggest that among evangelicals as a whole - whose numbers are estimated to represent at least 25 percent of the US population - the appeal and influence of such religio-political activism are limited.


This is more right wing and religiously politicized than the majority of evangelicals, says Christian Smith, professor of sociology at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Most would not make the kind of 'take back America' statements in such an overt way.


In an in-depth national study published in 2000 under the title, Christian America? What Evangelicals Really Want, Dr. Smith explored the views of a remarkably diverse group, with many holding conflicted views on political involvement and the issues and methods of activists.


Still, the 2004 election confirmed a growing mobilization of conservative Christians. And in a recent Barna survey of American pastors about their choice for the most trusted spokesperson for Christianity, Dr. Kennedy made the top 10, sharing the final spot with three others, including Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson and President Bush, each winning the vote of 4 percent of the clergy.







www.csmonitor.com | Copyright © 2005 The Christian Science Monitor. All rights reserved.
For permission to reprint/republish this article, please email
Copyright




 


An earlier poster stated that about 76% of this nation is Christian
This, proportionately, means that 76% of what you see, read, watch, or are "bombarded with" is at least 76% done by Christians (feel free to make the Jew media comment, but they get their Commandments in the same place you do).

Therefore, it can be taken away that there are Christians who do not believe the same thing you do. Do you want to silence them, too?
I saw that clip earlier today and it is exactly right. And you can bet your bottom dollar on this...
Alarmist video? Who knows. Scare tactics? Who knows, but one thing I believe is there will be class war fare, food riots, and when Obama has taken all our guns away, then what???

It has happened in the UK with Sharia Law, in Australia they confiscated all guns, France with their huge Muslim population, and it sure as H.E. double-hockey sticks can happen here. And if Obama gets elected, you can take that to the bank. He will strip mine our country to its bones.

My DH has a saying..the tree of freedom has to be watered from time to time with the blood of patriots. Or words to that effect.
Sarcasm... isn't that what you were throwing around earlier? Just thought I'd throw some too.

Didn't realize you cornered the market.  But, hey, if you want some Bible verses, I can pitch a few of those too.


Sorry if I offended you, but I imagine the OP was perhaps a little offended at your insinuation that she was a paranoid lunatic.  Well, as momma always said, if you can't take the heat...


or


Don't dish it out if you can't eat it.


"kill him" speech is not acceptable free speech - it is against the law - nm
x
I am addressing racism in general & some of the racial words that were used on this board earlier (s
I am not an Obama supporter specifically because of his pastor's racial biases against white people and because I disagree with Obama's stance on partial birth abortion. I am against racism in all forms. I am against Obama's terrorist friends, I am very unhappy about the church Obama attended for 20 years. I am voting for McCain ONLY to vote against Obama because I do not want him to be our president. Both candidates have a lot of bad history & I wish there was another option. However, I love people of all races. You are making this into a racial election. I want to leave racial terms like "towelhead" and "oreo" and "halfbreed" off of this board. Do you find those words necessary to make your points? If so, your vocabulary and mind are obviously very limited.
What happened?
Oh geez..what happened?  Where are all the attack posts??  They are gone!!  Or maybe Im just hallucinating this morning, LOL. OMG!!  Now we can have soulful, fruitful, progressive and caring debates and ideas and maybe even possibly make a difference, without being attacked on everything we post.  Halleluiah!!
What I think happened
I believe the other short, nasty post was deleted and in doing so it automatically deleted the other posts below it, which unfortunately included yours. 
Yes, let's. What happened to all that
You used the "little people" reference to illustrate how elitist my concerns are. Those were not Obama's words, they were yours. You are not as good at spin as you think you are. Your choice to skip over the points about what KIND of executive experiences is another casual dismissal of issues far to vital to ignore, as you evidently would have us do. Those concerns will not be repeated here since you are trying to side-step them, as republicans inevitably do when faced with intellectual challenge, except to say that CEOs are executives, but keep themselves far out of touch with the "little people" beneath them. Sarah what's-her-name has also demonstrated a tendency to be a bit out of touch when it comes to using her office to elevate herself from ethics maid to VP.

Be impressed by that December 4, 2006 to now executive title. You obviously cannot cite any substance behind the title and neither can she. Most of us will not be voting for a title or a label, despite your party's best efforts.

Side-stepped everything about the token selection and Stepford Wife delegation, I see. So much for celebrating women's progress in the political arena.

First chair? Hopefully not (God help us if she ever is). Fact: That possibility is considerably more real under McCain (especially over an 8-year term) because of his age. Again, you have side-stepped the difference between the experience of Biden and the absence of same in what's-her-name. So much for being ready to lead the country. No problem. Says all it need to. 80% approval rating unheard of? You got that right. Nobody beyond Alaska has heard about it and it does not mean anything in view of the issue I raised that you are ignoring.

If you want to continue to make an utter fool of yourself by insisting her experience matches Obama's, go for it. I won't need to answer that lunacy again anytime soon. I'll let the media take care of that one for me and besides, rational minds will prevail over this lame claim.

What ever happened to
all those scathing protests over "redistribution of wealth?"  How do all these bail-outs factor into that line of thinking? 
I don't know how this happened!!! =)
ms - here's my political profile from the test you posted. Yes, I was very surprised! The liberal part must be hold-overs from my college days! =)

Overall: 75% Conservative, 25% Liberal

Social Issues: 50% Conservative, 50% Liberal

Personal Responsibility: 100% Conservative, 0% Liberal

Fiscal Issues: 75% Conservative, 25% Liberal

Ethics: 50% Conservative, 50% Liberal

Defense and Crime: 100% Conservative, 0% Liberal
and what happened?
did someone put a stop to it???
What happened to sam?

I'm just curious.  I can barely stomach the politics board, so I almost never read the political posts due to the O-Love-A-Thon and the pure vitreol, which does nobody any good. 


I noticed that sam took off.  I don't blame him/her, either.  I simply wondered.


As for Ann Coulter, her brilliance and success literally drives the libs nuts.  I have her books, too, just short of her latest one, "Guilty."


I'm not here to start a bunch of %(#$*, but I just wondered where sam went.  My guess is that he/she got sick of the crap and left.  I couldn't figure why he/she continued the fightl  I know I won't go there.


I know what happened...LOL..(sm)

You responded to a post that said "what makes you think we don't" when you probably should have, or meant to respond to the comment above that.  It went south after that.  Been there and done that.  I hate it when that happens....LOL.


What happened to us.

You always hear about people in the old days who worked from run rise to run set to make enough money, etc. to support themselves and their kids.  They wouldn't take charity or handouts.  They took pride in working and earning what they got whether it was enough or not.  Now there are just too many people with their hands out asking for a free ride. 


As far as I am concerned.....if you are receiving welfare and you refuse to work even if it isn't a great job......you lose your welfare.  I have no problem contributing to someone who is at least trying to work.  However, I do have a problem with giving money to lazy bums who would rather mooch off other people than to do a days honest work.


This is what happened
Someone posted that the Capt had been freed. Someone replied to that "Thank you President Obama. Job well done". We're all thinking what????? I didn't know that the O was part of the Navy Seal team that went in and rescued the Captain. Why would you be thanking the O but not the Navy Seals, not saying they are hero's that laid down their lives to rescue the Captain. No they attribute it all to the O. And yet on the other side of the coin they wouldn't give GW the same "congrats" when he gave the orders to have the girl from West Virginia rescued, or when he have the orders to have the hostages in Iran rescued, or any of the other orders he gave the okay on for the Navy Seals to rescue the people. But even then, as I don't congratulate the O because he wasn't part of the Navy Seals that risked their life to save the Captain, I would also not congratulate Bush on his orders to rescue other hostages.

The congrats goes to the Navy Seals. The ones who lay their lives down to rescue people they don't even know. When you give your life and are prepared to die to save another human being, they are the real hero's. But the poster that congratulated the O for "a job well done", didn't even mention anything about the ones who actually did the saving.

I don't get you guys...what is it you want. We all know you think he is the messiah, the anointed one, the one who can do no wrong. You will always be the first to praise "oh looky the stock market went up 8.5 points - way to go O, you're just the best president ever", but when the stock market drops something like 150 points you stay silent, and then be the ones to point out that the stock market goes up and down and it's not his fault. I sit and think...uh hellloooooo...you just congratuated him for the stock market going up but it's not his fault it goes down?????? (which by the way I don't believe whether it goes up or down he has anything to do with, but evidently you people do - that is of course only when it goes up).

All you want to see on this board is praises for him and rejoicing and singing hallelujah's to his name. You will never ever say anything when something bad is happening. Just praises.

Yes, I know he will make mistakes, and I know he will do some good. But not admitting when something bad is going on (like tripling our deficit within 90 days - and no, not a fault of Bush's, the O did this all by himself with his pen and paper, and with the help of a crat congress. You won't admit he is breaking his campaign promises. You won't say anything when we hear he is telling other countries that they can have our jobs because we don't want them anyways. You won't say anything when he bows to another countries leader (the American president is suppose to bow to nobody - but on top of that if he is suppose to bow to anyone, certainly not the country like that - I mean for pete's sake, he didn't even bow to the Queen of England). You may say you don't think he's perfect, but you certainly don't speak up when something he has done is wrong.

The "I know he will make mistakes - what man has never made mistakes?", etc, etc. sounds like your trying to get people to feel sorry for him and maybe you think it aids in your cause of the "oh poor O, everyone is picking on him". Well you know what, when people stand up and say "I'm mad as he!! and I'm not going to take it anymore". When you finally will speak up and say "hey, wait a minute, I voted for him but this is not what he said he was going to do" (which is what has happened to me. Yeah, you bet I get pretty ticked off when I have been lied to and I voted for him believing one thing and then realized he suckered us a good one. That's what's the really upsetting thing. Fooled me once shame on you, fool me twice - well there just won't be a twice.

"Why can't ya'll just give him a chance"??????? He has had his chance and he is blowing it.
It disappeared? I wonder how that happened.
nm
More importantly, what ever happened to the USA?

A Chinese bank is opening up in the USA.  Bush at one time had wanted to sell "security" of our ports to an Arab country.  We have two citizen heroes rotting away in jail because they did their job of protecting our border with Mexico and were forced to kill a criminal in the process of doing that job. 


If you open this link, you will see the staggering number of "American" companies that are no longer owned by Americans.  http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/07/10/american-icons-owned-abroad-falling-dollar-cheaper-u-s-assets/


As far as the redistribution of wealth, below I have copied and pasted what I feel is, by far, the most interesting article I've read on that topic.  In my opinion, a "trickle up" policy needs to be implemented as soon as possible because the "trickle down" theory has not worked.



Closing Time


Jim Kirwan
12-10-8


 








Since Reagan we've been trying to make "Trickle-Down economics" work: For those to whom promises were made, Trickle- Down has been, not just a failure but it has been the major vehicle responsible for the most massive redistribution of wealth, from the population that has worked toward something, to those that wanted everything. Never has there been such a near total transfer of wealth in the history of the planet. This criminal-conspiracy has done what it was created to do ­ and it must be terminated with extreme prejudice, immediately, if we are to survive.
 
When 'Trickle-Down' was the political-priority of the day, the high-point in prosperity was to become a 'Millionaire.' Forbes magazine tracked those lucky few very carefully. Today Forbes 500 no longer bothers with 'millionaires' because there are just far too many of them-they have become inconsequential. Thanks to "Trickle-Down economics today the heavy-hitters financially are 'Billionaires' and above: which is all you need to know about how well this hostile-takeover of the American economy has worked.
 
The problem that this transfer of wealth has created has resulted in the Federalization-of-Privatization: As a result we are all facing another huge round of trickle-down economics, but this time it's being cloaked in a series of stealth-protected measures. These new tactics are commonly called BAILOUT or RESCUE packages, and nothing about their origins or their purposes has been made clear to those of us that will be forced to pay tens of trillions for our own destruction.
 
What's happening is this: First they used compromised laws to squash diversity and opinion within the entire field of communications, under Clinton and Powell's kid that ran the FCC. Together, competition was eliminated and monstrous empires were created that absorbed their competition outright. Once this happened, the entire edifice for total information management was in-place, using household names to lie to the public every minute of every day, whether on television or in print-with very few exceptions. With that completed effort it was easy to move directly onto the openly fascist path to WAR on a variety of fronts, supported and applauded by the very organs that were supposed to question whatever government does, on behalf of the people, as part of their constitutionally protected-jobs as so-called journalists. With the constitution gone, and the only allegiance worthy of that name having become the private for-profit motives that greed and arrogance breeds; in the sewers of those ruined lives where these so-called leaders "live," the current outcome is all that we should have ever expected from these new-age barbarians. (1)
 
We're still in the Twilight Zone; where Obama is just another man waiting to start a job, except that he seemingly can't wait to begin so he formulates their plans and then rushes to the nearest podium to expound upon the glories of what these programs (or pogroms) are pointedly designed to do; for them and 'to' us. And the sheep wait patiently to board the trains that will take them to the slaughterhouse.
 
The larger picture has or course remained hidden from the general public. What continues to go unnoticed is the number of profligate cities and towns, not to mention states that will have to be bailed out by the feds. Once this begins to happen, 'the rights' of states will disappear completely along with any independence from the federal-government. Remember the formula upon which bailouts are based: The crucial money provided is conditioned upon a federal "ownership stake" in everything that needs the money, and when this is applied to the states then all they have left to trade with is their broken-economies and their people who shall both become the property of the federal government that is today a private-corporation that serves only the privately-owned central banks and by extension the multi-national corporations. This is about to happen now to several states, including California; the sixth largest economy in the world. (2)
 
'BTW the "corporation" mentioned above has been bankrupt since 1933, and the result of that bankruptcy is that the USA went into receivership to the privately-owned Federal Reserve. The Dictator was correct when he said: "The constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper," he was actually telling the truth. It was probably the only truthful statement he ever made in nearly eight years.
The owners have simply allowed us to believe we have a constitution. Every law, code and statute world wide is based on the Uniform Commercial Code and has been in place since 1950. Of course no one in a position of power ever bothered to mention this to us did they? One must understand the UCC to understand how and why so many have gotten away with so much: And now they are upping the ante, to take it all.'
 
This explains why every courtroom and every government building has flags hanging that really are not American flags even though they appear to be. Each of them has gold/yellow fringe around them. They give us smoke and mirrors that mask what they created, which allows them to continue to say 'we have a constitution and a democracy.' Of course America was created to be a constitutional republic, not a democracy. There is a huge difference between a democracy and a constitutional republic. The rights of the few and the many, can only be protected under a Republic, while under a democracy, the majority rules-absolutely.
 
There are however a few places that are still holding out against the one-world-order and the New Barbarians. Among these are Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, parts of Pakistan, possibly Iran and certainly Greece.
"Socialist leader George Papandreou called for early elections, saying the conservative government could no longer defend the public from rioters.
 
The government has a single-seat majority in the 300-member Parliament and opposition parties blame hands-off policing for encouraging the worst rioting the country has seen in decades.
 
'The government cannot handle this crisis and has lost the trust of the Greek people,' Papandreou said. 'The best thing it can do is resign and let the people find a solution ... we will protect the public.'" (3)
 
If America is to survive then we must stop this wholesale giveaway of everything that was once part of this society. The relationship between profits and earnings must be freed from the stranglehold that management has created in order to siphon off all the profits and wreck the companies they work for. In addition, the idea that government can function in any capacity as a major stakeholder in any form of private enterprise beggars the imagination far beyond any real possibility for saving anything; except the criminals and their enterprises that created this "crisis" in the first place. The 'economy' must be based on a bottom-up profit motive, based on the real wages of those that create the wealth for those at the top - and not upon the insanity that it is now! People must come first, and the corporations must be controlled at every level by the public!
 
There is no longer anything like responsibility anywhere in government or the private sector to anything except what can continue to be stolen, either by flawed and fraudulent bailouts, or through the strong-arm tactics that are currently acting "under- cover of law" and that are neither legal nor functional. Obama in this venue is neither a savior, nor a friend to the people that supposedly 'elected' him-he is just the instrument of the new global-government engine designed to finish the job and to close down this nation, once and for all! Americans need to watch what happens in Greece and follow their example, if there is to be an America to fight over in the future.
 
In the meanwhile, here is some of what's happened here already.
 
"With the focus on privatization, public-private partnerships, (dismantling local control); anyone with any common sense about them can see that; incrementally the power of the people is being given over to corporate control through various venues. Once upon a time we were subjects, then citizens, and now consumers. Everything is for sale. TV 'programming' is set up to entice "consumers" through the 3000 daily ads to buy, buy, buy! Utilities-waste- nursing homes, and even the people's water (once in local control) is open to the highest bidder or those with the most influence. In "public private partnerships or privatization" (despite the lofty high pitch sales rhetoric) means only one thing, a plundering of the people's money. Profits take precedence over any and all health or environmental concerns. It's pigs at the trough time, locally- state wise and nationally. This is not just happening in one or two isolated places but across the nation. Because we are narrowly focused (many times only one newspaper) parochially; we have little to no idea of the larger picture and what is being set in place.
 
As I read of various happenings across the nation; I am struck with the usage of terms and language being introduced into the public arena; with no explanation as to their meaning (if any). I asked a state politician a few years back what this terminology we're hearing lately of, "regional or regionalization" meant? He brushed the whole thing aside as inconsequential and told me that is was of no importance. Obviously, for me, that was an unsatisfactory answer. Most especially, since on the local level, I could see that it meant a great deal. It appeared to me, that ever so insidiously, local control was gradually being usurped by "regional" control of unelected officials. Consultants (strangers) were replacing local people in places of city government (at lucrative salaries). The sense of community (calling city hall etc.) was being replaced by various business entities, having little to no attachment to the heartbeat of the people. How could they, being strangers, with no sense of native pride or concern? Words like "regional, stake holder, empowerment zones, enterprise committees, visioning councils, smart growth, sustainable development etc;" had replaced understandable language! I didn't imagine that the usage of these terms across the nation (if you look) meant "nothing"." (4)
 
It's 'Closing Time' America, because unless you begin to do more than just watch, this place won't even be a footnote to the ruin that is planned for these people and this place that once held so much promise for everyone.
 
kirwanstudios@sbcglobal.net

More importantly, what ever happened to the USA?

A Chinese bank is opening up in the USA.  Bush at one time had wanted to sell "security" of our ports to an Arab country.  We have two citizen heroes rotting away in jail because they did their job of protecting our border with Mexico and were forced to kill a criminal in the process of doing that job. 


If you open this link, you will see the staggering number of "American" companies that are no longer owned by Americans.  http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/07/10/american-icons-owned-abroad-falling-dollar-cheaper-u-s-assets/


As far as the redistribution of wealth, below I have copied and pasted what I feel is, by far, the most interesting article I've read on that topic.  In my opinion, a "trickle up" policy needs to be implemented as soon as possible because the "trickle down" theory has not worked.



Closing Time


Jim Kirwan
12-10-8


 








Since Reagan we've been trying to make "Trickle-Down economics" work: For those to whom promises were made, Trickle- Down has been, not just a failure but it has been the major vehicle responsible for the most massive redistribution of wealth, from the population that has worked toward something, to those that wanted everything. Never has there been such a near total transfer of wealth in the history of the planet. This criminal-conspiracy has done what it was created to do ­ and it must be terminated with extreme prejudice, immediately, if we are to survive.
 
When 'Trickle-Down' was the political-priority of the day, the high-point in prosperity was to become a 'Millionaire.' Forbes magazine tracked those lucky few very carefully. Today Forbes 500 no longer bothers with 'millionaires' because there are just far too many of them-they have become inconsequential. Thanks to "Trickle-Down economics today the heavy-hitters financially are 'Billionaires' and above: which is all you need to know about how well this hostile-takeover of the American economy has worked.
 
The problem that this transfer of wealth has created has resulted in the Federalization-of-Privatization: As a result we are all facing another huge round of trickle-down economics, but this time it's being cloaked in a series of stealth-protected measures. These new tactics are commonly called BAILOUT or RESCUE packages, and nothing about their origins or their purposes has been made clear to those of us that will be forced to pay tens of trillions for our own destruction.
 
What's happening is this: First they used compromised laws to squash diversity and opinion within the entire field of communications, under Clinton and Powell's kid that ran the FCC. Together, competition was eliminated and monstrous empires were created that absorbed their competition outright. Once this happened, the entire edifice for total information management was in-place, using household names to lie to the public every minute of every day, whether on television or in print-with very few exceptions. With that completed effort it was easy to move directly onto the openly fascist path to WAR on a variety of fronts, supported and applauded by the very organs that were supposed to question whatever government does, on behalf of the people, as part of their constitutionally protected-jobs as so-called journalists. With the constitution gone, and the only allegiance worthy of that name having become the private for-profit motives that greed and arrogance breeds; in the sewers of those ruined lives where these so-called leaders "live," the current outcome is all that we should have ever expected from these new-age barbarians. (1)
 
We're still in the Twilight Zone; where Obama is just another man waiting to start a job, except that he seemingly can't wait to begin so he formulates their plans and then rushes to the nearest podium to expound upon the glories of what these programs (or pogroms) are pointedly designed to do; for them and 'to' us. And the sheep wait patiently to board the trains that will take them to the slaughterhouse.
 
The larger picture has or course remained hidden from the general public. What continues to go unnoticed is the number of profligate cities and towns, not to mention states that will have to be bailed out by the feds. Once this begins to happen, 'the rights' of states will disappear completely along with any independence from the federal-government. Remember the formula upon which bailouts are based: The crucial money provided is conditioned upon a federal "ownership stake" in everything that needs the money, and when this is applied to the states then all they have left to trade with is their broken-economies and their people who shall both become the property of the federal government that is today a private-corporation that serves only the privately-owned central banks and by extension the multi-national corporations. This is about to happen now to several states, including California; the sixth largest economy in the world. (2)
 
'BTW the "corporation" mentioned above has been bankrupt since 1933, and the result of that bankruptcy is that the USA went into receivership to the privately-owned Federal Reserve. The Dictator was correct when he said: "The constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper," he was actually telling the truth. It was probably the only truthful statement he ever made in nearly eight years.
The owners have simply allowed us to believe we have a constitution. Every law, code and statute world wide is based on the Uniform Commercial Code and has been in place since 1950. Of course no one in a position of power ever bothered to mention this to us did they? One must understand the UCC to understand how and why so many have gotten away with so much: And now they are upping the ante, to take it all.'
 
This explains why every courtroom and every government building has flags hanging that really are not American flags even though they appear to be. Each of them has gold/yellow fringe around them. They give us smoke and mirrors that mask what they created, which allows them to continue to say 'we have a constitution and a democracy.' Of course America was created to be a constitutional republic, not a democracy. There is a huge difference between a democracy and a constitutional republic. The rights of the few and the many, can only be protected under a Republic, while under a democracy, the majority rules-absolutely.
 
There are however a few places that are still holding out against the one-world-order and the New Barbarians. Among these are Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, parts of Pakistan, possibly Iran and certainly Greece.
"Socialist leader George Papandreou called for early elections, saying the conservative government could no longer defend the public from rioters.
 
The government has a single-seat majority in the 300-member Parliament and opposition parties blame hands-off policing for encouraging the worst rioting the country has seen in decades.
 
'The government cannot handle this crisis and has lost the trust of the Greek people,' Papandreou said. 'The best thing it can do is resign and let the people find a solution ... we will protect the public.'" (3)
 
If America is to survive then we must stop this wholesale giveaway of everything that was once part of this society. The relationship between profits and earnings must be freed from the stranglehold that management has created in order to siphon off all the profits and wreck the companies they work for. In addition, the idea that government can function in any capacity as a major stakeholder in any form of private enterprise beggars the imagination far beyond any real possibility for saving anything; except the criminals and their enterprises that created this "crisis" in the first place. The 'economy' must be based on a bottom-up profit motive, based on the real wages of those that create the wealth for those at the top - and not upon the insanity that it is now! People must come first, and the corporations must be controlled at every level by the public!
 
There is no longer anything like responsibility anywhere in government or the private sector to anything except what can continue to be stolen, either by flawed and fraudulent bailouts, or through the strong-arm tactics that are currently acting "under- cover of law" and that are neither legal nor functional. Obama in this venue is neither a savior, nor a friend to the people that supposedly 'elected' him-he is just the instrument of the new global-government engine designed to finish the job and to close down this nation, once and for all! Americans need to watch what happens in Greece and follow their example, if there is to be an America to fight over in the future.
 
In the meanwhile, here is some of what's happened here already.
 
"With the focus on privatization, public-private partnerships, (dismantling local control); anyone with any common sense about them can see that; incrementally the power of the people is being given over to corporate control through various venues. Once upon a time we were subjects, then citizens, and now consumers. Everything is for sale. TV 'programming' is set up to entice "consumers" through the 3000 daily ads to buy, buy, buy! Utilities-waste- nursing homes, and even the people's water (once in local control) is open to the highest bidder or those with the most influence. In "public private partnerships or privatization" (despite the lofty high pitch sales rhetoric) means only one thing, a plundering of the people's money. Profits take precedence over any and all health or environmental concerns. It's pigs at the trough time, locally- state wise and nationally. This is not just happening in one or two isolated places but across the nation. Because we are narrowly focused (many times only one newspaper) parochially; we have little to no idea of the larger picture and what is being set in place.
 
As I read of various happenings across the nation; I am struck with the usage of terms and language being introduced into the public arena; with no explanation as to their meaning (if any). I asked a state politician a few years back what this terminology we're hearing lately of, "regional or regionalization" meant? He brushed the whole thing aside as inconsequential and told me that is was of no importance. Obviously, for me, that was an unsatisfactory answer. Most especially, since on the local level, I could see that it meant a great deal. It appeared to me, that ever so insidiously, local control was gradually being usurped by "regional" control of unelected officials. Consultants (strangers) were replacing local people in places of city government (at lucrative salaries). The sense of community (calling city hall etc.) was being replaced by various business entities, having little to no attachment to the heartbeat of the people. How could they, being strangers, with no sense of native pride or concern? Words like "regional, stake holder, empowerment zones, enterprise committees, visioning councils, smart growth, sustainable development etc;" had replaced understandable language! I didn't imagine that the usage of these terms across the nation (if you look) meant "nothing"." (4)
 
It's 'Closing Time' America, because unless you begin to do more than just watch, this place won't even be a footnote to the ruin that is planned for these people and this place that once held so much promise for everyone.
 
kirwanstudios@sbcglobal.net

Well, whatever happened, I am sure glad
nm
and we all know what happened to Rome don't we? sm
The Roman empire rotted from within. They kept absorbing and absorbing immigrants until they were no long able to sustain both them and their own citizens at the same time. The infrastructure finally gave out.

Sounds familiar to me.