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What a great article...thanks for posting it, ms!

Posted By: nm on 2009-01-24
In Reply to: On a lighter note.....sm - ms

:)


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Great article. Thanks for posting it....sm
I had a feeling she'd do well talking with them.

I agree. Great article. Thanks, LVMT for posting it.
To m:  LOL.  No problem.  It's very easy to do on this board. 
Great. Thanks for posting.
/.
It is a good article. Thanks for posting !
nm
Good article, thanks for posting....sm
Heard Cheney on Rush the other day. Good man, probably the most intelligent VP we've ever had.

Excellent Article! Thanks for posting.
It boils down to the feds weren't forcing bad loans on the banks, the lenders were forcing the bad loans out of greed.
This is an excellent article - thanks for posting
x
Great response. Thanks for posting.
x
Great post, A. Thanks for posting.
Too bad more don't see the bigger picture for what it truly is in this case. 
I just couldn't resist posting this article.

When I read it, my first thought was "how fitting this would be for those to read who are firm in pro-life, pro-war and its contradiction".


 


Let’s Count the Ways We’ve Sacrificed for the Iraq War


by Mary Conroy


As children, we learned about Santa Claus — a pleasant, harmless myth. As adults, we’re being taught another myth — that ordinary people haven’t sacrificed anything during the Iraq war.


But the sacrifice myth isn’t an innocent belief we shed before adolescence. And the more people accept it, the more dangerous it is.


So let’s count our sacrifices. One of our biggest came at the start of the war, when we gave up freedom of the press. Media outlets agreed they’d only send journalists who’d be embedded with the troops, so everything we’ve read or seen has been censored.


Worse yet, in 2006, new media rules from the Department of Defense stated, “Names, video, identifiable written/oral descriptions or identifiable photographs of wounded service members will not be released without service members’ prior written consent.” Just when should an embedded journalist hand out consent forms?


Photos of dead or wounded Americans in Vietnam swelled the number of anti-war protesters. Back then, we saw horrific images of GIs writhing in pain. We also saw dead GIs, not in coffins, but bloody and dismembered in the field.


Even before the new media rule began, embedded photographers rarely pictured dead or wounded GIs, according to Pat Arnow of Extra, a publication of Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting. Instead, most of our media’s coverage of Iraq has pictured the injured GIs who can sit up in bed without grimacing to receive a Purple Heart. The few pictures of dead GIs haven’t shown blood or gore; they’ve shown funerals.


Photographers get close to the soldiers they’re embedded with and self-censor pictures of them. If they send their editors explicit photos, the editors declare the images “too graphic to publish,” like the Washington Post did on Jan. 7, 2007.


Embedded journalists also censor pictures of dead Iraqis. “Those pictures overwhelmingly show only one kind of victim — people and things shattered by their fellow countrymen, not by U.S. troops,” Arnow says.


When we do see a photo of an Iraqi killed by U.S. troops, the media distances us by labeling the dead Iraqi “an al-Qaida-linked militant,” or “a militiaman loyal to Osama bin Laden.”


Remember that photo of a terrorized naked Vietnamese girl running from a napalm attack? Today she would be called “a Vietcong guerilla” or “a Ho Chi Minh militant.”


But freedom of the press isn’t the only sacrifice we’ve made. Last month, Congress released “The Hidden Costs of the Iraq War,” a report showing the war’s cost so far at $1.3 trillion. That figure includes direct costs plus interest on the money borrowed to wage the war.


The money we spend on Iraq in one day could fund 9,300 teachers for a year, or 14,200 police officers, or 163,700 college Pell Grants, or 58,000 children’s tuition for Head Start, or 513,000 children’s health insurance. We’ve sacrificed all of those and more.


Worst, we’ve sacrificed human life. In September, the Opinion Research Business firm’s study of Iraqi households found that 1 million Iraqis have died due to violence since the U.S. invasion. We know of 4,000 American military who’ve died, but rarely does anyone ask about American civilian death counts.


And we’ll never know what the world lost when each of those people died. Each life was full of possibility. Who knows what contributions each person could have made to the workplace and the world, to their friends and to their families?


Mary Conroy is a Madison-based freelance writer.


That's a good, fair article. Very well stated. Thanks for posting the link!....nm

Great article
Great article by Noonan. LOL, she is one of the people the right wingers just love and love to quote her articles..Guess they wont be quoting much from this article.  I love it.  I sit back and laugh when I see conservatives, staunch Bush supporters, speaking out against decisions he has made and then the ones who are still trying to defend this total screw up person, LOL. 
Great article here
I think he is on the money on this one.  Flame away, flame away.  I have my fireproof suit on.
Great article - sm
I, like the poster below, knew she would do well and this proved it. She's one smart lady and this goes to prove the diplats believe so too.

Can't wait to see her in the debate.
Great article. nm

s


Great article, Lurker; thanks.

Great article! Very well written.

As I've suspected for a long time now, he's deaf and *dumb*!!


Thanks for posting this. 


This is a great article, Marmann........ sm
Thanks for posting it.

Way back when the primary caucuses started, I mentioned Chuck Baldwin on this board but I don't think there was a single reply, good or bad, to my post. I wish he had had a little more exposure during the campaigns and was on the ticket in all states. He was not on the ticket in Texas.

To be honest, I really believe that the reason there is so much noise being made about Obama and none about what Bush has done while in office is that most people, myself included, are not aware of all the intricacies of the US Constitution. It is a very intricate document and most American people are only aware of what they had been taught in high-school or college civics classes and not tne entire document along with the US Code which is the law that helps fill in the spaces and further explain the Constitution. Even if there was an awareness on the part of the majority of the people, most would have been reluctant to bring any law suits against Bush due to the fact that we are (were) mired in Iraq and facing challenges on our homefront as well. Bush managed to get us through 9/11 in a way that made us all feel safe. While things might have gone kind of downhill after that with his administration, most people likely did not want to rock the boat and risk showing America as being weakened by the impeachment of her President. This is not said to excuse Bush's actions but just rather to explain how this American feels about the whole situation, and I doubt I am really alone in my feelings.

Now that a precident has been set with the Obama B/C situation, Americans seem to have awakened and started paying more attention to what is going on in our government and researching and finding out what the Constitution really says and not just what the media tells us. Maybe in 2012, Baldwin (or another Constitutional Party nominee) will step up to the plate and campaign more aggressively and win the presidency. It's time someone started running this country the way it was intended to be run.
You could make a great article with that (sm)
What you just wrote above would make a great magazine article. People were so tough back then, weren't they? I wonder what we would do? Most of us would not even begin to know how to do any of the things people used to do to survive.
Great Mark Morford article
The guy can write and he's right on as usual.

Fun Bits About American Torture
In many ways, the U.S. is now just as inhumane and brutal as any Third World regime. Oh well?
- By Mark Morford, SF Gate Columnist
Friday, December 16, 2005

We do not torture. Remember it, write it in red crayon on the bathroom wall, tattoo it onto your acid tongue because those very words rang throughout the land like a bleak bell, like a low scream in the night, like a cheese grater rubbing against the teeth of common sense when Dubya mumbled them during a speech not long ago, and it was, at once, hilarious and nauseating and it took all the self-control in the world for everyone in the room not to burst out in disgusted laughter and throw their chairs at his duplicitous little head.

Oh my God, yes, yes we do torture, America that is, and we do it a lot, and we do it in ways that would make you sick to hear about, and we're doing it right now, all over the world, the CIA and the U.S. military, perhaps more often and more brutally than at any time in recent history and we use the exact same kind of techniques and excuses for it our numb-minded president cited as reasons we should declare war and oust the dictator of a defenseless pip-squeak nation that happened to be sitting on our oil.

This is something we must know, acknowledge, take to heart and not simply file away as some sort of murky, disquieting unknowable that's best left to scummy lords of the government underworld. We must not don the blinders and think America is always, without fail, the land of the perky and the free and the benevolent. Horrific torture is very much a part of who we are, right now. Deny it at your peril. Accept it at your deep discontent.

Torture is in. Torture is the tittering buzzword of the Bush administration, bandied about like secret candy, like a hot whisper from Dick Cheney's gnarled tongue into Rumsfeld's pointed ear and then dumped deep into Dubya's Big Vat o' Denial.

The cruel abuse of terror suspects is sanctioned and approved from on high, and we employed it in Abu Ghraib (the worst evidence of which -- the rapes and assaults and savage beatings -- we will likely never see), and we use it in Eastern Europe and Guantánamo and in secret prisons and it has caused deaths of countless detainees. And Rumsfeld's insane level of Defense Department secrecy means we may never even know exactly how brutal we have become.

Torture is right now being discussed in all manner of high-minded articles and forums wherein the finer points of what amount of torture should be allowable under what particular horrific (and hugely unlikely) circumstances, and all falling under the aegis of the new and pending McCain anti-torture legislation that would outlaw any and all degrading, inhumane treatment whatsoever by any American CIA or military personnel at any time whatsoever, more or less.

All while, ironically, over in Iraq, our military is right now inflicting more pain and death upon more lives than any torture chamber in the last hundred years, and where we have recently discovered the fledgling government that the United States helped erect in Saddam's absence, the Iraqi Interior Ministry, well, they appear to be so giddy about torture they might as well be Donald Rumsfeld's love children. But, you know, quibbling.

There is right now this amazing little story over at the London Guardian, a fascinating item all about a group of hardy hobbyists known as planespotters, folks whose solitary, dedicated pastime is to sit outside the various airports of the world and watch the runway action and make intricate logs and post their data and photos to planespotter Web sites. It's a bit like bird-watching, but without the chirping and the nature and with a lot more deafening engine roar and poisonous fumes.

These people, they are not spies and they are not liberals and they are not necessarily trying to reveal anything covert or ugly or illegal, but of course that is often exactly what they do, because these days, as it turns out, some of those planes these guys photograph are involved in clandestine CIA operations, in what are called extraordinary renditions, the abduction of suspects who are taken to lands unknown so we may beat and maul and torture the living crap out of them and not be held accountable to any sort of pesky international law. Fun!

It is for us to know, to try and comprehend. The United States has the most WMD of anyone in the world. We imprison and kill more of our own citizens than any other civilized nation on the planet. We still employ horrific, napalm-like chemical weapons.

And yes, under the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld regime, we abuse and torture prisoners at least as horrifically as any Islamic fundamentalist, as any terrorist cell, to serve our agenda and meet our goals -- and whether you think those goals are justifiable because they contain the words freedom or democracy is, in many ways, beside the point.

Go ahead, equivocate your heart out. It is a bit like justifying known poisons in your food. Sure mercury is a known cancer-causing agent. Sure the body will recoil and soon become violently ill and die. But gosh, it sure does taste good. Shrug.

Maybe you don't care, maybe you're like Rumsfeld and Cheney and the rest who think, well sure, if they're terrorists and if they'd just as willingly suck the eyeballs out of my cat and rip out my fingernails with a pair of pliers as look at me, well, they deserve to be tortured, beaten, abused in ways you and I cannot imagine. Especially if (and this is the eternal argument) by their torture we can prevent the deaths of innocents.

Maybe you are one of these people. Eye for an eye. Water torture for an explosive device. Does this mean that you are, of course, exactly like those being tortured, willing to go to extremes to get what you want? That you are on the same level morally, energetically, politically and, like Cheney and Rumsfeld, you are dragging the nation down into a hole with you? You might think. After all, fundamentalists terrorize to further a lopsided and religious-based agenda. We torture to protect ours. Same coin, different side.

It is mandatory that we all acknowledge where we are as a nation, right now, how low we have fallen, how thuggish and heartless and internationally disrespected we have become, the ugly trajectory we are following.

Because here's the sad kicker: Torture works. It gets results. It might very well save some lives. But it also requires a moral and spiritual sacrifice the likes of which would make Bush's own Jesus recoil in absolute horror. Yet this is what's happening, right now. And our current position demands a reply to one bitter, overarching question: What sort of nation are we, really?
Thoughts for the author? E-mail him.

Mark Morford's Notes & Errata column appears every Wednesday and Friday on SF Gate and in the Datebook section of the SF Chronicle. To get on the e-mail list for this column, please click here and remove one article of clothing. Mark's column also has an RSS feed and an archive of past columns, which includes a tiny photo of Mark probably insufficient for you to recognize him in the street and give him gifts.

As if that weren't enough, Mark also contributes to the hot, spankin' SF Gate Culture Blog.


URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2005/12/16/notes121605.DTL
©2005 SF Gate


No flames. I thought it was a great article. nm
x
This is a great article written by Jim Cramer...

he is the money guy on CNBC. We listen to him sometimes, have read a couple of his books, and because of watching his show in Sept or Oct of last year, we pulled our money out of the stock market, which was the BEST idea. It is an interesting artcile to some, maybe not to others.


http://www.mainstreet.com/article/moneyinvesting/news/cramer-my-response-white-house


Great and really informative article, but the reasons we find the economy in this problem....sm
is all the banking deregulation that has taken place over the past 9 years or so....without any regulations at all, the banks have had free reign to wallow in their greed, invest their investor's money in very speculative and dangerous deals trying to make as much quick money as possible, and when it all blew up in their face, we all are expected to rescue these despicable creatures because the econmomy and wellfare of the nation, its homeowners, small businesses, etc., will just be the true victims suffering every greater losses. Yes, I agree that soem of the article's highlighted practices are very frightening for us, but right now we are facing an unprecedented financial tragedy in this country....blame all the banking deregulation, and those who proposed/allowed it as "free enterprise (interpreted=unbridled greed and robbery) as the horrid lesson here.
post the link only, not the whole article and the link. See rules for posting.
x
Great post, great insight, great analysis, thanks!..nm
nm
Each brown place in the link takes you to a different article that supports this article...nm
x
So does someone's comment at the end of the article, discredit the whole article??
Unbelievable. 
Great, great post. Thank you, Marmann! nm
x
why are you posting here?
I believe in personal responsibility. I dont believe you or the govt have a right to tell anyone what to do with their body. If my choices are wrong, I will stand in judgment when I meet my maker. I also dont follow in lock step with an administration that lies to the people about Iraq. Supporting our troops and not falling for lies about this illegal war are two different things. Yes, it is an illegal war. The world realizes this. The International Court of Justice realizes this. Of course, I support our troops and want them home. Believing in God is a personal decision and should not be shoved down others throats. I believe in separation of church and state, do not mix religion and politics. I dont believe we should have the state and/or president intervening when a spouse wants to let someone pass whose brain is half the size of a normal brain, living only due to rudimentary reflexes and I certainly do not think they should waste my tax dollars on trying to tie the hands of the spouse. These republicans/conservatives are way out of control in so many ways. It would be quite laughable if it wasnt so pitiful. I believe this is not a Christian country but a country with many religions and beliefs and I respect the people enough to let them choose what to believe. Seems to me nowadays democrats are acting like the way republicans used to, i.e., keep govt at a minimum and out of personal business, keep the budget balanced or as close to balance as possible. Republicans/conservatives are so off course right now. They are trying to invade into the states rights and personal rights. They have waged an immoral illegal war, my children and my childrens children will be paying to reduce this massive deficit, caused by republicans. Yes I oppose **liberating** other countries who dont ask us to help. Who the heck do we think we are, invading a soverign country and pushing our beliefs and religion and morals down their throats? Iraq is worse off today than it was under Saddam. Under Saddam, they had jobs, food, electricity, a life of certainty and definitely not lawlessness in the streets. We have killed tens of thousands of Iraqis with the excuse of liberating them. We have created a terrorist breeding ground and it will continue. The minute we kill off terrorists, their sons and daughters will rise up and fight back. We are just as bad as Saddam with our sickening war machine.
Thanks for posting this.
that's what it's all about.
posting
In an odd sense of.....oh...whatever, please continue to post here.  No one wants you not to (gosh, it must be the green tea Im drinking this morning).  *note to me, get rid of that darn republican green tea*..
Not posting here

What is it about this issue that makes you people think that anyone finds YOU to be a threat to the point where you are all suddenly retreating and saying you won't post here any more???????????


The problem is with the breach of security on this site.  Unless you're the owner/moderator/administrator, this does not apply to you personally.


This issue should have been brought to the forefront on the company board a week ago when this incident happened, but I guess too many people were shocked by the blatant lack of ethics and the not so subliminal message that if anyone says anything negative about this company, your ISP will be tracked, and at that point, I, along with probable others, was afraid to post anything further.


why do they keep posting here?
For the life of me, I dont understand why these same bitter so angry conservatives come over to the liberal board and post.  They are not wanted here.  I guess the anger just builds up as they try to live their obviously unhappy lives and when they cant stand it any more, they come over here to start trouble.  It just bugs the heck out of them that we are patriotic, love the troops and want them home alive.  Some of these radical neocons actually say the troops are fighting for our freedom and freedom of speech?  What?  The war in Iraq has nothing to do with our freedom or freedom of speech.  They will just throw anything out there to try to justify Bush's war.  They sound so silly, just makes me shake my head and laugh.  A bunch of fools.
Wow, thanks for posting
>
Thanks for posting.
I really like Paul Krugman.
Thank you for posting this.
And thanks Lurker for writing it.  Lurker brought up many, many valid issues and good points.  I wonder why nobody on that other board even bothered to address those issues.
There was someone posting here sm

In fact several, and I thought one of them was you, who were listing lots of links that Bush engineered 9/11.  I guess I was mistaken, but someone was posting it here.


Thank you for posting this!
My heart was really heavy...was I was not aware of this stance until this thread began. It is indeed heartening to know this. Thanks again!
Thanks for posting
I think you made my point better than I did when I was discussing this. I don't think it was always clear exactly how the program worked. From what I had read, the basics of the program were staying essentially the same - that the states had the control over who they covered. The only things, at least from what I saw, that the expansion did was allow the federal government to raise their limit (which states do not have to necessarily comply with, it just gives the states more options), collect more income for the states' programs, and allow more agencies to help decide eligibility. Everything would still essentially be in the states' hands.
Thanks for posting that
That's the sort of stuff I was looking for. The article I read was obviously skewed the other direction. In a way, I think it makes me like him more. There are so many people in this country who are completely turned off by politics. They see it as a bunch of rich white men controlling their lives. Because he is so candid about his past, I think there will be a large number of people who feel that they can relate to him better than any other candidate.

It sounds a little crazy to say, but I think his honesty will help him.
Thanks for posting!
nm
Hey sam....thanks so much for posting....sm
I knew you could explain it much more succinctly than I could.
Thank you for posting that. sm
Loved it!




Thanks for posting! nm
nm
Thanks for posting
I'm not meaning to start a riot either but my opinion, this nation was founded on the principal that "In God we Trust."  We are no longer a Christian nation.  God blessed this nation for 200+ years, then we allowed Him to be kicked out and look where we are today.  Again, this is MY opinion.
Thanks for posting this, Sam.
nm
Thank you for posting this!
I am a Christian and have been struggling this past month, maybe the economy, maybe just myself feeling that I've not been doing all He wants me to. There is no ridicule from me; I agree with you totally and I am so glad you posted this. I've noticed a couple of posts where there is this misconception that Christians think we are better or something.


Christians - By Maya Angelou


When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not shouting "I'm clean livin'."
I'm whispering "I was lost,
Now I'm found and forgiven."

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I don't speak of this with pride.
I'm confessing that I stumble
and need Christ to be my guide.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not trying to be strong.
I'm professing that I'm weak
And need His strength to carry on.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not bragging of success.
I'm admitting I have failed
And need God to clean my mess.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not claiming to be perfect,
My flaws are far too visible
But, God believes I am worth it.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I still feel the sting of pain.
I have my share of heartaches
So I call upon His name.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not holier than thou,
I'm just a simple sinner
Who received God's good grace, somehow!

Thank you for posting...
Unfortunately, there are too many people who do not seem to want peace and tolerance. The next leader has to be able to rise above this, but I think your 11-year-old son is very insightful. Lets hope he is wrong, huh?

Take care...and God protect us all
thank you for posting this ---
I have already voted, so this could not change my decision one way or another, but I was interested in knowing what was said first hand and not just reading about it second hand.

After watching this video, it is clear to me that he was not saying that he was Muslim - it was not a slip of tongue - he meant to say that questioning whether or not he was Muslim had not ever came out of John McCain's mouth. He even corrected GS when he tried to correct him...

I for one do not believe that Obama is a Muslim, practicing or nonpracticing, but at the same time, this country is built on diversity, being free to practice what religion you choose - as long as the President is not pushing his faith down your throat, mandating that it is the only right religion, what should it matter anyway what his/her faith might be? Why is it even an issue?

I am a Christian, but everyday I report to a boss that is not a Christian and I have no problem with that - she does not tell us in her employ that we have to practice her faith, and she does not keep us from practicing ours. When Bush got elected, he did not say that we all have to start being Methodist, but I don't see the Baptist protesting him because he is not Baptist, and the Church of God protesting because he was not Church of God, or the church of Christ protesting becaue he was not church of Christ.
Thank you for posting this.
I will be sending this to everyone I know and posting it on my myspace page.  I want to get the word out to anyone and everyone about how big of a joke Obama really is.  Nothing is for free and all his supporters are mesmerized by his preaching of hope and change and getting something for nothing......they are so mistaken.  Nothing is for free!  This is nothing bot socialism and giving money to people who don't work for it.  Makes me sick!
Thank you for posting this -- sm

I'm going to share this with my DH tonight.  We have discussing this election over and over and haven't been able to come up with a clear choice.  Our biggest concern is the economy.  Yes, I care about national security, but I think there are enough advisors on either campaign to handle that.  What affects me most is money.  Up until this point, we (DH and I) have been leaning to the left because it sounds like O's plans would be more beneficial to us.  However, after reading this, I'm not so sure anymore.  My husband and I work very hard to support our 3 kids and afford a nice home, vehicles and extras.  The last thing I want is someone taking that away from me and giving it to the welfare group.  They get enough breaks as it is.


I've said this numerous times -- McCain should be raising these issues in a better light, not counting on his supporters to find it.  It's sad because I fear it may be too late already.  Sometimes I think MC doesn't want to win this election.