Yeah...almost asridiculous as yours, I admit...so shall we cease and desist and stick to real issues
Posted By: sam on 2008-08-30
In Reply to: oh granny - weepaws
nm
Complete Discussion Below:  marks the location of current message within thread
The messages you are viewing
are archived/old.
To view latest messages and participate in discussions, select
the boards given in left menu
Other related messages found in our database
please stick to the issues
x
Can we please stick to issues
And not come here to start a fight. I see a lot of issues being talked about below, and then we have the messages put out evidently to begin a fight with the "you republicans".
I want to hear about health care issues, TARP, job loss, Iran, and other issues affecting my life. Not the rantings of lunatics who want to instigate something.
For all those who are "you republicans" there are equal who are "you democrats".
Issues people, issues.
Cant' you stick to issues and not personally attack
Bwaaaahaaaaahaaaaa.
Then maybe you should stick to facts, substance and issues
The liberals attack those who do not agree with them. And it's not attacks on issues or facts it's personal name calling attacks.
Palin won't admit the real reason they lost
A lot of it was because McCain showed poor judgment in choosing her... now she chooses to blame the Bush regime. She will never get far in politics. She will be on Fox news. You wait. But I know, you all, I said Obama was going to win and you kept saying no no no and so obviously i am a little smarter than the rabid republicans on here.
real issues
such as celebrity, Ayers, etc.??
you have real issues
x
Real issues
Read or heard on the news yesterday that in 2009 it will be the big investors in the commercial real estate market who will be facing disaster. Will they be the next to get a bail-out? I'd bet they will be trying. I hope Obama and the Congress will put a big fat NO to any more bail-outs.
Must be real low on issues at the moment, huh....nm
.
Don't you even understand the real issues here?
All this hooplah on either side means nothing to me. I look for the facts of each candidate, which is what you should be doing instead of grasping at reports such as these.
Do you believe you won't be taxed? Sure you do because for reasons that escape me, you refuse to look at his voting record on taxes. Just this past March, in the middle of the night, he tried to pass a bill to tax YOU, the middle class, along with Hillary Clinton. I don't call the rich those making 31K - 63K a year, so you keep believing in a lie if you want until your paycheck is gone.
It's in black and white or are you not aware how to actually find facts for yourself.
Sam leaves us no room for real issues.
It has been nothing but a sam Blitzkrieg on the political board these past few weeks. Sam posts messages with the express intent of wreaking havoc and instigating arguments, as evidenced by her comments such as, "Let the games begin." If sam would be so kind as to step away, we might be able to discuss the issues that are important to all of us in an intelligent and adult manner. I for one will no longer feed the sam troll by by acknowledging any post by her.
You have real issues and I've never killed an abortion doctor
nor have I condoned the very few that have. We are not all murderers. I'm sorry that something has has happened in your life to make you so against God, but demonizing us will not make your issues go away. We are not trying to be superior, but if you want religion to stay out of schools then all religion and theories (which liberalism is full of) needs to stay out too. If you want it vanilla and equal well then it works both ways.
Yeah, I guess I do have some issues...
especially with folks who have selective memories. And I am wondering why you think I have issues and Michelle Obama does not? lol.
Yeah, you're all about issues, but....(sm)
the only thing you did in the above post is try to start yet another fight by claiming that all Obama supporters are racist. Nice job staying on the issues...NOT.
BTW, I could give a rat's butt what MLK's party affiliation was. I know what he stood for and fought for as a person, and that is what made him a legend, not his color and not his party credentials.
The ironic thing is that YOU are one of the ones who consistently bring race into just about every conversation. Get over it.
Yeah, they are liberal on social issues. sm
And, they have run amuck chasing the adoption records of Roberts. It's things like this that make people want to lump liberals/democrats all up in one pile when in fact this is one, maybe two journalist starting this up. It gives fuel to the right wing media and the wheels keep on turning.
Oh yeah, he is a real
John Edwards, Little Man? |
 August 15, 2004 - Senator John Edwards of North Carolina was added as a folksy candidate to hide the abrupt coldness of John Kerry. John Edwards was also a Southerner, and in a tight election, the Democrats wanted a touch of populism to add to their ticket. On the way to moderation, though, the Kerry campaign settled for a candidate almost as liberal as Kerry himself. Despite the southern drawl and eloquent speaking, Senator Edwards has no clue about average America.
The freshman Senator from North Carolina was considered difficult to contact by many of his constituents. When Hurricane Isabel ravaged North Carolina's coast, Senator Edwards made only a quick trip to his Raleigh office, far from the coast. Most North Carolinians have seen Edwards' lack of compassion for their issues as a sign that he is only concerned about personal advancement. North Carolina has had a shot to know Edwards best, and they like him least. Up for re-election this year, Edwards had terrible approval ratings. Even after his addition to the ticket, North Carolina, referred to as a battleground state by ABC News, had a Bush lead of over 15 points.
Although he is the son of a mill worker, that story has only gotten Edwards so far. The Senator made his fortune as a trial lawyer. Many of his cases dealt with cerebral palsy, a brain condition that impacts many children. Edwards used science which stated that doctors could cause cerebral palsy, and he won millions while suing doctors out of business and helping lead to soaring malpractice insurance costs. Now, the medical community has refuted those claims and many believe that Edwards' cases were not based on science but emotion. Making care from doctors more difficult has not helped the average American.
In the Senate, Edwards has helped his lawsuit-happy trial lawyers and fought against tort reform. This has also hurt average Americans. Tort cases revolving around the asbestos industry have caused severe problems. Already, over 80 businesses have gone bankrupt and 60,000 Americans have lost jobs due to the largely frivolous and expensive lawsuits. Many more are expected to lose as the saga continues. However, Edwards still has not cast a vote for average Americans. Although his Senate website featured some of his gallant addresses on the American economy, Edwards has helped tarnish that economy with frivolous lawsuits.
Most of the little people Edwards claims to represent have never had an immense respect for trial lawyers. That has come with good reason as frivolous lawsuits cause inflation, dramatically increase malpractice insurance, and have cost working Americans jobs. However, Edwards has continued to claim to support the little people. In his presidential campaign, he accused Bush in a letter to MoveOn.org: He honors wealth while I honor the work that creates it. Edwards went on to say: I am running for president because I believe in an America where Main Street has as much value as Wall Street.
Edwards may have little support for Wall Street, because as a tort lawyer, he could have sued many of Wall Street's companies. However, John Edwards' working man image is a fantasy. Despite his southern drawl and charisma, John Edwards was the fourth most liberal Senator last year. As a wealthy liberal, he cared little for cutting taxes for hardworking Americans. Although he claims to want to help the working class, Americans for Tax Reform gave Edwards a 0% rating, and the Citizens Against Government Waste gave John Edwards a 13% rating. Edwards may not protect the Wall Street that has created jobs for the prosperity of millions of Americans, but he does protect his fellow trial lawyers. Besides trial lawyers, Edwards protects his liberal interests.
Despite his play for mainstream support, Edwards' presidential run proved how isolated he was from average America. What he claimed to be a grassroots campaign was a mixture of Hollywood studios, accounting firms, and real estate, but most were wealthy trial lawyers. Of Edwards' largest 25 donors, 22 were trial lawyers. Edwards collected an astonishing 56% of funds from large donors ($2000 or more), more than any other Democratic candidate. That percentage even exceeded the percent of funds President Bush received from large donors.
Doubts have also been cast on the integrity of John Edwards and his donors. As have most liberals, John Edwards promoted his presidential run on MoveOn.org, George Soros' soft-money organization designed to escape campaign-finance reform laws. Average Americans could never give enough to satisfy Edwards' political aspirations, and neither did MoveOn.org. Some of Edwards' wealthy trial lawyer friends could not resist violating laws. One of Edwards' donors, C. Tab Turner of Turner and Associates has been accused of campaign finance violations. According to the Center for Public Integrity, Turner may have used other employees to donate to Edwards' campaign on his behalf. Among the wealthy Hollywood firms, liberal activist groups, and wealthy trial lawyers, John Edwards still claims to understand average Americans.
People have asked before and after the conventions: Who is John Edwards? He would call himself the son of a mill worker who wants to work as vice president in an effort to give a voice to the little people. That was the essence of his speech. However, on convention night, it was what was not said that was so important. Edwards forgot about his millions made as a trial lawyer. While Edwards has spoken virtuously of trial lawyers, he has forgotten that they have also spawned some of the economic problems now facing America. Who is John Edwards? He is not the southern choice. He has no concern for middle America. Even constituents in his own state had difficulty contacting him. John Edwards is a Southern liberal who knows nothing of American values. This is what Democrats call a populist. It is what Americans call a liberal in disguise. |
Like the Vietcong and PLO. Yeah. Real sweethearts.
xx
..Oh Yeah! And that worked real well, didn't it?
Trickle down economics is the lamest excuse for Republicans to give all the money and tax breaks to THE RICH! It has never worked and will never work because of one thing - GREED!
Now THAT is Economics 101.
Yeah-a real American Hero
He was on The View and he stated he lives in Mexico 9 months out of the year. He loves Mexico. He's against waterboarding and his answers to questions they asked him were way out there as if he hates the country.
He's a real patriot, isn't he...NOT!
Yeah, and I hear you can get a great deal on real
estate when you chum up with Tony Rezko, too.
Yeah, real weird. The left would say she was crappy if if she was funny...
Not surprising.
By the way, maybe she wasn't funny because SNL gave her a crappy script.
Ever think of it that way? They hate her too, ya know....
Wow. Never cease to be amazed...sm
But I can appreciate a person who says what's on their mind and not dance around the issue, however wrong she may be.
Outlaw abortion so we can have more cheap labor and then we won't need the Mexicans ~ That's what she's saying here. She's already chalked up the aborted to cheap labor.
Cease fire.
No canned text for me. The tone of our posts are set by these my-way-of-the-highway / scorched earth approaches to opposite views. I have very exhilarating exchanges when the 2 parties are respectful, informed, flexible, open-minded, focused and on task, more interested in finding common ground than sowing the seeds of division, looking for solutions as opposed to validation and understanding that no political problems will ever be solved without bipartisan participation, mediation and compromise.
Plagiarizing and paraphrasing an opponent’s text and ideas and trying to throw them back at them does not an effective argument make. Furthermore, it is childish…like those playground disputes between children…“you did, no you did, no you did”…etc. It is not your ideas that I find so distasteful, it is your presentation. Not to be cliché, but you attract more bees with sugar than vinegar. I am not intolerant of Hannity…watch him frequently. Cannot have an effective debate without becoming familiar with the “cons” side of the argument.
On the bigot thing. Remember me? I’m the one who is hawking inclusion, supportive of minority interests, and has the audacity to suggest that Americans are not the only ones who just might deserve some equality, dignity, respect and basic human rights…even if they are illegal. I suppose it is a positive sign that you at least take offense. There’s hope for you yet.
On racial purity. You are really big on maintaining American cultural integrity and identity. But when it comes to extending the same consideration to our immigrants you go ballistic…clear off the map, at times. They can walk and chew gum at the same time…it is possible to preserve ones’ native culture AND be a good American. These are not two mutually exclusive concepts. If our democratic principles are all they are cracked up to be, it would not be so painful to see them behaving like Americans.
Going to go out on a limb here and to use and example. Mexican-Americans gathered together (right to assemble) waving their flag in protest (freedom of speech) of harsh immigration laws or working conditions in the maquilidoras are trying to bring these issues to the doorstep of the government who created those conditions (right to redress grievances). What could be more American than that? You cannot look at that crowd and distinguish between which among them are legal and which are not…after all, those are issues of ALL Mexican natives. Should we deny all of them these rights, implying that such rights are reserved for the REAL Americans? Being American is not simply a matter of a piece of paper, some arbitrary degree of language proficiency, some certain level of income or education. They should not be required to melt into the pot and disappear, renounce their birthrights and turn their backs on their own people just to qualify. Can’t have it both ways. If you want them to be Americans, then you have to LET them be Americans.
Ask yourself this question. If you saw 50,000 illegal Irish immigrants doing the same thing in NYC, would your reaction be the same? The bottom line is this: Our new wave of immigrants does not look like the ones from the past. You seemed to enjoy the DAR bridge party swapping stories of how they all came from different countries and cross bred with one another …even had a occasional Indian in the wood pile…and produced this great nation of mutts. But the breed was selectively white. If it was okay then, it should be okay now. The problem you are grappling with is that the results would produce all these mongrel shades of God-knows what. If this make you uncomfortable in the least little bit…if you are now feeling driven to slap me up side the head…that’s the voice of bigotry.
On elitism. Your posts are full of strict, literal reads and “tudes” as you call them. Sue me if I took a page from your book. At least you sort of tried to address the “academics,” still not calling it by name. If you could stop slaying the messenger long enough to hear the message, you would understand that there is nothing condescending about wanting to engage in informed debate that orients itself around reaching mutual respect and understanding. It has absolutely nothing to do with being angry or feeling superior. Think what you like, but I am neither of those. I simply enjoy using my language and have an affinity for broad vocabulary. It’s just who I am. Blame it on the docs. They certainly sent me to the dictionary too many times to count and I lingered there for a while, that’s all there is to it. This personal trait should not in any way exempt me from debate, nor should I be subjected to ridicule, name calling or unfounded accusations because of it.
There is something you and I have in common. We are 2 American gals coming from opposite ends of the political spectrum, locked into the extreme divisions that plague our fellow citizens from shore to shore. If we cannot find our way past this kind of bickering in which we both find ourselves ensconced, we all are in big trouble.
Believe it or not, Sam, I actually enjoy our posts. Okay, go ahead if you like. Send me to the therapist again. Call me masochist, bipolar, schizo, whatever. I just think we could do better than this.
Speaking of therapy, I have a life-long friend, an endearing street thug / bad boy from younger days, who grew up and became a therapist. He works with drug addicts, adult children of alcoholics (being one himself) and dysfunctional families. He said something to me that made a lot of sense. One of the first challenging pieces of advice he throws out to a new patient is to “try to keep things in the third person,” in an effort to “dial back” nonproductive confrontations with family members. I thought he was crazy at first, but I started trying this with my husband and to my surprise, it really did seem to help us to better understand one another, even after 18 years. That is what I will be trying to do next time you and I visit the water cooler. If you want to chill on the immigrant dialog for a while, that works for me.
Thanks for the good luck wishes on the job search. Hope I can find a decent company that is not just another maquilidora masquerading as an MTSO!
Boy, your cease fire didn't last long....LOL
Just in case you are interested, and I doubt you are, I wrote this BEFORE you wrote your cease fire, not AFTER. Which makes your cease fire ring all the more hollow, especially in the face of this..."Okay you want to keep the gloves off..." LOL. And if this dialing it back a notch...yes, frankly, I would suggest you go back and talk to that family friend because you haven't got the third person thing down yet. Every post flies in the face of what you try to say. You ARE angry. You DO need to feel superior. You want what you want, I want what I want. I make specific examples of specific Americans I have personal knowledge of who immigrated from Mexico and that is their experience, and the experience of many others. But you could care less. If it doesn't illustrate your point, you don't care about it. You don't care that it costs your fellow citizens millions every year to support illegal immigrants...money that could be going to the needs of citizens of this country. And where do you get that illegals don't stay anyway? Got any of those 4-letter words to support that?
Yes, my feelings extend to ANY nationality illegal immigrant. Why on earth do you think I hate Mexicans? I don't hate ANYONE. I just want them to come here legally like other immigrants have, get a green card, go through the process, become citizens if that is what they choose to do, or go back home when their visas expire. Draw and quarter me for that if you like. I couldn't, at this point, care LESS.
Again you completely missed the fact that I grew up and went to school with Mexican immigrant children and knew their families and keep in touch today. I have no problem with Mexicans. It is a fact that the biggest problem we have with immigration is from Mexico...welll duhhh...we share a border with them. Much easier for them to immigrate illegally, much easier because of the porous border for folks to get in that we don't really want to get in. But of course, you would
As to it takes a long time to become a citizen, yada yada yada...well, good things come to those who wait. It has always taken a long time to become a citizen. Since there are millions here who are citizens, obviously they thought it was worth the wait. Excuses, excuses, excuses. It is the LAW. Do you pick and choose what laws you want upholded and those you don't?
You say NONE of them want to change who we are or what we are. Did I miss the part where you were named national spokesperson for illegal immigrants? You don't even realize you said the same thing I said. Yes, they come here for a better life. That's fine. If I immigrated to Canada for a better life, I would not carry the American flag down their streets in protest, out of respect if nothing else, but I suppose that is something that does not matter to you either...it certainly is not present in your rants. If I immigrated to Canada to a part where they spoke predominantly French, I would learn French. I would be embracing of their culture. Because I chose to make that my country and my home. I would not have to be asked to do so. But obviously I am the exception and not the rule.
Again with the languages. I don't care how many languages are spoken here. My sole point is that for preservation and protection of the United States of America we should be united...and you don't see that either. I belive what I believe, you believe what you believe. And never the twain shall meet, it would appear. Does not make me wrong, does not make you wrong. I will hold my hopes for the America I long for and you hold the hopes for the America you long for. The years to come will tell the tale. And if all this comes back to bite you years down the road...and we are too old to care...that little voice in the back of your head that said "I told you so..." That will be me.
The Civil War...geez. It was all ABOUT preserving unity. If it had not been fought to preserve the union we would be two countries today fighting back and forth across the border like Iran and Iraq for example. Slavery was only part of the issue of the civil war. But a brilliant man (and Republican I might add) Abraham Lincoln saw the folly in splitting the union, and another fine man, Robert E. Lee, saw the same folly...but chose to be a Virginian before an American, though it broke his heart to do so (to use his own words), and we see where that led. After the civil war and the slaves were freed, we came back together as a country, stronger than before, and never since have Americans chosen to be anything but Americans first. So far. That is what I would like to preserve. That is all I am talking about. Unity. Read up on the civil war. Read up on Abraham Lincoln and Robert E. Lee. Both great men with great vision. The Civil War was about unity.
As to now who's arrogant? I am about the most UN-arrogant person you would ever meet. I wouldn't know how to be verbally condescending and you have it down to a fine art. For someone who is not angry and not needing to feel superior, your posts say the opposite.
All this aside, keep safe during the bad weather coming up. I know hurricanes don't go inland very far too often, praying that it won't get to you. Hoping tornados spawned won't get to either. Keep your head down and live to verbally slice and dice me another day. :)
U.S., France join in cease-fire call in Lebanon war..sm
So we are back bumping elbows with France. If only we would have taken their advice on Iraq too.
Issues people, issues. I need issues
I'm not seeing any discussion about issues. Can we stick to the issues. Jeeze - I want to hear good and bad about both candidates but with facts to back whatever is being said.
P-L-E-A-S-E.....I want issues. How can I make any kind of determinatons about who I'm going to vote for if I don't hear about the issues. Reading some of this I'm thinking I'd get more truth if I read the National Enquirer.
No, goofy. Republicans are REAL people, real
nm
If the real folks, with real hope, faith, and
and for our country's future who participate here on this forum were just a tad as healthy, wealthy and wise as this poster considers herself, we probably wouldn't be sitting in front of these silly computers trying to make a living!! Can't figure why she is here other than tell us how healthy, wealthy and wise she is and we are not!
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've said before that you're leaving, but you and your goons can't sta
Yes, better stick with
your characature of Obama because it always makes sense to take something and run with it.
Have to stick up for him already...nm
//
Stick around
I got a million of 'em. I'M HERE ALL WEEK, FOLKS! Be sure to tip your waitress!
Just stick it to grandma,
that there medication..she's a fakin'..we'll slash her Medicare benefits! 'Sides we can always borrow more money from China..uh,what's his name? Oh and we'll let the grandkids pay....Huh? What deficit? Hurricanes Katrina, Rita, and the war? Bake sales! Doin' a heckuva job! Just keep dem hands off doze tax cuts! 'Scuse me, gotta do more speechifyin' 'bout what a good job I'm doin'. {{{smirk}}}}
Ah, the Bush way...good plan. It would be funny if it wasn't so freakin' pathetic. Heaven help us.
Take this website and stick it
you know where. We all know PUBS are the ones who cheat. Please, what is wrong with you, really???
I will stick up for Sam, too. -not a bully.
nm
So I should stick myself in a room
and never go anywhere because it's everyone's right to display sex drugs and violence everywhere? Where is my right to live in a society that doesn't bombard us day and night with those lifestyles?
The least you could do is stick to the subject...(sm)
As far as how I could vote for Obama after 911. Well, probably because he won't go running all over the middle east starting illegal wars in the name of fighting his "the axis of evil." My guess is once he straightens out Bush's mess, which is a job all by itself, he'll do what this country needs him to do -- restore credibility.
Did you stick your tongue out at me too?
x
I will stick with my moniker...
Liberal, Pro-Choice, Agnostic.
Nah....I think I'll stick to the ones...(sm)
who would encourage violence. Maybe Hannity -- which violent revolution would you pick was the question on his website. How about Glenn Beck? How many people have been killed because of him now? Loved the gas can circus show, BTW. And then there's Limpbog -- the defacto leader of the pub party. 
because conservatives stick to the old,
boring stuff and it is the independents and liberals that breathe fresh air into life.
I think he should stick to his speech writers.
I can't hardly believe something as potentially volatile was discussed amongst that staff before he let that one go! Personally, I think its nothing more than a diversion to get people thinking and talking about something other than the war in Iraq.
Enough. Stick the with political discussions..
If your posts are directed towards posters and NOT a political issue or discussion, you will be banned. We've asked nicely, we've posted it on here.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO AGREE, just stop the childish behavior of attacking people on this board.
...except for all those straight-laced, stick-up-their
@rses republican biddies. They think anyone who isn't just like them is a witch. Sometimes it feels like Salem all over again.
OK. You stick with equating O with satan and
Like I said before. Gloom and doom does not seem to be working for the camp.
Sorry, Tech - but why don't you stick up for yourself with these no-nothing harpies? nm
NM
You can't admit the war was
I am not sure I would admit that if I were you. nm.
nm.
I believe one has to admit..
to his wrongdoing (we know how hard that is for W ) first and then repent. I do not see W doing either of those things. The only thing he can pull out of his hat to say he would do differently is use different language, like bring 'em on, dead or alive. That's it !!!!! Until he recognizes, owns up to and asks for forgiveness I don't think he'll get it. You do have to go and sin no more.
They will not admit anything except
IT'S ALL BUSH'S FAULT!
BUT, they will NEVER admit that but will just
nm
|
