Wow. Never cease to be amazed...sm
Posted By: Democrat on 2006-03-17
In Reply to: Huh? You're not going to believe this. - sm - Starcat
But I can appreciate a person who says what's on their mind and not dance around the issue, however wrong she may be.
Outlaw abortion so we can have more cheap labor and then we won't need the Mexicans ~ That's what she's saying here. She's already chalked up the aborted to cheap labor.
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Cease fire.
No canned text for me. The tone of our posts are set by these my-way-of-the-highway / scorched earth approaches to opposite views. I have very exhilarating exchanges when the 2 parties are respectful, informed, flexible, open-minded, focused and on task, more interested in finding common ground than sowing the seeds of division, looking for solutions as opposed to validation and understanding that no political problems will ever be solved without bipartisan participation, mediation and compromise.
Plagiarizing and paraphrasing an opponent’s text and ideas and trying to throw them back at them does not an effective argument make. Furthermore, it is childish…like those playground disputes between children…“you did, no you did, no you did”…etc. It is not your ideas that I find so distasteful, it is your presentation. Not to be cliché, but you attract more bees with sugar than vinegar. I am not intolerant of Hannity…watch him frequently. Cannot have an effective debate without becoming familiar with the “cons” side of the argument.
On the bigot thing. Remember me? I’m the one who is hawking inclusion, supportive of minority interests, and has the audacity to suggest that Americans are not the only ones who just might deserve some equality, dignity, respect and basic human rights…even if they are illegal. I suppose it is a positive sign that you at least take offense. There’s hope for you yet.
On racial purity. You are really big on maintaining American cultural integrity and identity. But when it comes to extending the same consideration to our immigrants you go ballistic…clear off the map, at times. They can walk and chew gum at the same time…it is possible to preserve ones’ native culture AND be a good American. These are not two mutually exclusive concepts. If our democratic principles are all they are cracked up to be, it would not be so painful to see them behaving like Americans.
Going to go out on a limb here and to use and example. Mexican-Americans gathered together (right to assemble) waving their flag in protest (freedom of speech) of harsh immigration laws or working conditions in the maquilidoras are trying to bring these issues to the doorstep of the government who created those conditions (right to redress grievances). What could be more American than that? You cannot look at that crowd and distinguish between which among them are legal and which are not…after all, those are issues of ALL Mexican natives. Should we deny all of them these rights, implying that such rights are reserved for the REAL Americans? Being American is not simply a matter of a piece of paper, some arbitrary degree of language proficiency, some certain level of income or education. They should not be required to melt into the pot and disappear, renounce their birthrights and turn their backs on their own people just to qualify. Can’t have it both ways. If you want them to be Americans, then you have to LET them be Americans.
Ask yourself this question. If you saw 50,000 illegal Irish immigrants doing the same thing in NYC, would your reaction be the same? The bottom line is this: Our new wave of immigrants does not look like the ones from the past. You seemed to enjoy the DAR bridge party swapping stories of how they all came from different countries and cross bred with one another …even had a occasional Indian in the wood pile…and produced this great nation of mutts. But the breed was selectively white. If it was okay then, it should be okay now. The problem you are grappling with is that the results would produce all these mongrel shades of God-knows what. If this make you uncomfortable in the least little bit…if you are now feeling driven to slap me up side the head…that’s the voice of bigotry.
On elitism. Your posts are full of strict, literal reads and “tudes” as you call them. Sue me if I took a page from your book. At least you sort of tried to address the “academics,” still not calling it by name. If you could stop slaying the messenger long enough to hear the message, you would understand that there is nothing condescending about wanting to engage in informed debate that orients itself around reaching mutual respect and understanding. It has absolutely nothing to do with being angry or feeling superior. Think what you like, but I am neither of those. I simply enjoy using my language and have an affinity for broad vocabulary. It’s just who I am. Blame it on the docs. They certainly sent me to the dictionary too many times to count and I lingered there for a while, that’s all there is to it. This personal trait should not in any way exempt me from debate, nor should I be subjected to ridicule, name calling or unfounded accusations because of it.
There is something you and I have in common. We are 2 American gals coming from opposite ends of the political spectrum, locked into the extreme divisions that plague our fellow citizens from shore to shore. If we cannot find our way past this kind of bickering in which we both find ourselves ensconced, we all are in big trouble.
Believe it or not, Sam, I actually enjoy our posts. Okay, go ahead if you like. Send me to the therapist again. Call me masochist, bipolar, schizo, whatever. I just think we could do better than this.
Speaking of therapy, I have a life-long friend, an endearing street thug / bad boy from younger days, who grew up and became a therapist. He works with drug addicts, adult children of alcoholics (being one himself) and dysfunctional families. He said something to me that made a lot of sense. One of the first challenging pieces of advice he throws out to a new patient is to “try to keep things in the third person,” in an effort to “dial back” nonproductive confrontations with family members. I thought he was crazy at first, but I started trying this with my husband and to my surprise, it really did seem to help us to better understand one another, even after 18 years. That is what I will be trying to do next time you and I visit the water cooler. If you want to chill on the immigrant dialog for a while, that works for me.
Thanks for the good luck wishes on the job search. Hope I can find a decent company that is not just another maquilidora masquerading as an MTSO!
Boy, your cease fire didn't last long....LOL
Just in case you are interested, and I doubt you are, I wrote this BEFORE you wrote your cease fire, not AFTER. Which makes your cease fire ring all the more hollow, especially in the face of this..."Okay you want to keep the gloves off..." LOL. And if this dialing it back a notch...yes, frankly, I would suggest you go back and talk to that family friend because you haven't got the third person thing down yet. Every post flies in the face of what you try to say. You ARE angry. You DO need to feel superior. You want what you want, I want what I want. I make specific examples of specific Americans I have personal knowledge of who immigrated from Mexico and that is their experience, and the experience of many others. But you could care less. If it doesn't illustrate your point, you don't care about it. You don't care that it costs your fellow citizens millions every year to support illegal immigrants...money that could be going to the needs of citizens of this country. And where do you get that illegals don't stay anyway? Got any of those 4-letter words to support that?
Yes, my feelings extend to ANY nationality illegal immigrant. Why on earth do you think I hate Mexicans? I don't hate ANYONE. I just want them to come here legally like other immigrants have, get a green card, go through the process, become citizens if that is what they choose to do, or go back home when their visas expire. Draw and quarter me for that if you like. I couldn't, at this point, care LESS.
Again you completely missed the fact that I grew up and went to school with Mexican immigrant children and knew their families and keep in touch today. I have no problem with Mexicans. It is a fact that the biggest problem we have with immigration is from Mexico...welll duhhh...we share a border with them. Much easier for them to immigrate illegally, much easier because of the porous border for folks to get in that we don't really want to get in. But of course, you would
As to it takes a long time to become a citizen, yada yada yada...well, good things come to those who wait. It has always taken a long time to become a citizen. Since there are millions here who are citizens, obviously they thought it was worth the wait. Excuses, excuses, excuses. It is the LAW. Do you pick and choose what laws you want upholded and those you don't?
You say NONE of them want to change who we are or what we are. Did I miss the part where you were named national spokesperson for illegal immigrants? You don't even realize you said the same thing I said. Yes, they come here for a better life. That's fine. If I immigrated to Canada for a better life, I would not carry the American flag down their streets in protest, out of respect if nothing else, but I suppose that is something that does not matter to you either...it certainly is not present in your rants. If I immigrated to Canada to a part where they spoke predominantly French, I would learn French. I would be embracing of their culture. Because I chose to make that my country and my home. I would not have to be asked to do so. But obviously I am the exception and not the rule.
Again with the languages. I don't care how many languages are spoken here. My sole point is that for preservation and protection of the United States of America we should be united...and you don't see that either. I belive what I believe, you believe what you believe. And never the twain shall meet, it would appear. Does not make me wrong, does not make you wrong. I will hold my hopes for the America I long for and you hold the hopes for the America you long for. The years to come will tell the tale. And if all this comes back to bite you years down the road...and we are too old to care...that little voice in the back of your head that said "I told you so..." That will be me.
The Civil War...geez. It was all ABOUT preserving unity. If it had not been fought to preserve the union we would be two countries today fighting back and forth across the border like Iran and Iraq for example. Slavery was only part of the issue of the civil war. But a brilliant man (and Republican I might add) Abraham Lincoln saw the folly in splitting the union, and another fine man, Robert E. Lee, saw the same folly...but chose to be a Virginian before an American, though it broke his heart to do so (to use his own words), and we see where that led. After the civil war and the slaves were freed, we came back together as a country, stronger than before, and never since have Americans chosen to be anything but Americans first. So far. That is what I would like to preserve. That is all I am talking about. Unity. Read up on the civil war. Read up on Abraham Lincoln and Robert E. Lee. Both great men with great vision. The Civil War was about unity.
As to now who's arrogant? I am about the most UN-arrogant person you would ever meet. I wouldn't know how to be verbally condescending and you have it down to a fine art. For someone who is not angry and not needing to feel superior, your posts say the opposite.
All this aside, keep safe during the bad weather coming up. I know hurricanes don't go inland very far too often, praying that it won't get to you. Hoping tornados spawned won't get to either. Keep your head down and live to verbally slice and dice me another day. :)
U.S., France join in cease-fire call in Lebanon war..sm
So we are back bumping elbows with France. If only we would have taken their advice on Iraq too.
I am still amazed by how some of you think....
how narrow minded you are, and how you worry what goes on in the bedroom - which is THE main problem!! For your information, homosexuality was taken off the DSM list in 1975 as sexual deviation.
For those who think it is a choice, how wrong you are. I knew I was gay since about 5 years of age and believe me, I would never chose this type of life as it is very hurtful and very hard because of homophobic people who insist on getting involved in my life.
I tried your so-called normal life - I hated every minute of it. I denied who and what I was because of fear. I came to terms with my homosexuality and am very happy that I did.
We really just want to be left alone - to live our life as you - without hate. I agree that there are a lot of gay people who go overboard but there are more straight people who do - such as comparing us with pornographers, etc.
I have found out through life that the homophobes who scream the loudest are usually latent!! Mmmmmm.
Yeah...almost asridiculous as yours, I admit...so shall we cease and desist and stick to real issues
nm
He is full of nothing but hot air. Amazed at the following he has.
fffffffffffffffffff
What I am MORE amazed and astounded about is...
that people on this board BUY that hook, line, and sinker, and even when the truth is right there in front of them...talk about stubbornly clinging.
I am amazed that you are saying, I quote
'Everyone said ''give the guy a chance'' and this is what he's doing with it. I am NOT impressed so far...'
On WHAT grounds did people say this?
Did people also say 'Give McCain a chance' or didn't they?
I really wonder that O is supposed to justify EVERY, EVERY MOVE AND STEP he makes.
I am amazed at the number of people...sm
Who would vote democrat this year but are not simply because Obama is half black. I have heard this more times than I can say. I live in the south and I know there are sometimes racist people here. I am a southerner myself, born here. But I believe Obama is a better choice because we can't endure another 4 years of the same policies Bush has. Some people have even said I don't like McCain but I won't vote for a black president. Well I don't care what color he is. I want to give someone with new policies a chance. He may not be good but he may. The fact that people are being so prejudice for his skin color is just ridiculous. It is just an unbelievable amount of people who are saying this around here. I went to a halloween party and everyone was like oh my gosh we may have a black president. I am like oh well if he can do the job what does it matter? I am like well if he was white based on his policies would you vote for him? If the answer is yes then that is just being prejudice. I am not for interracial couples or any of that but when you can't even vote for a black person you have problems. 
I am always amazed at how naive some people are....s/m
He's doing this to enable his admistration, and Congress, the ability to take this country as far and hard to the left, and as fast as he possibly can.
He has a purpose, and it's not for the good welfare of our country.
It's to put our entire country "ON" welfare, and grow the government. This is a major takeover, and you're right about one thing.
He's as transparent as glass to the rest of us.
And we don't want what he's about to bring us to, to our knees with government control over every aspect of our lives.
At least I have the comfort of knowing I didn't vote for him.
I agree, great quote! I am amazed that for the 2+ days ...sm
that this has been posted, you did not get a single response. The only way we are going to get anything accomplished is to work together as Americans. I guess some just don't get it.
I get amazed every time I come on this board and read "strong Christians" who consistently pas
(Didn't Jesus have something very wise and definite to say about that?), insult and degrade "heathens" if their spiritual beliefs are not EXACTLY those of the mainstream right, even though they supposedly love this country which was founded on religious freedom and tolerance for ALL; cast stones every which way (Jesus also had a lot of good stuff to say about that)....yeah, they can proclaim to know it all if they do it under the "true Christian" banner. Here is a question. If you died this second and had to defend some of these insulting inflammatory statement on this board, other than the fact of saying to Him "I was being a Christian," do you think Jesus would take that as an excuse, or would he shake his head in sadness that you really didn't get "all of the story" of the New Testament, where love, tolerance, mercy, forgiveness, and HUMILITY wer preached to all???????
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